NationStates Jolt Archive

In Christianity, the claim that Jesus is the son of God is one of the most important parts of the religion. Islam as I understand it sees Jesus as a prophet and nothing more. A man who was touched by God and taught God's word to the people but was not God himself for it was heritical to consider God could have a son. However, the Bible and the Quran seem to agree that he came from a virgin birth.


7.(His prayer was answered): "O Zakariya! We give thee good news of a son: His name shall be Yahya: on none by that name have We conferred distinction before."

8. He said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son, when my wife is barren and I have grown quite decrepit from old age?"

9. He said: "So (it will be) thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: I did indeed create thee before, when thou hadst been nothing!'"

10. (Zakariya) said: "O my Lord! give me a Sign." "Thy Sign," was the answer, "Shall be that thou shalt speak to no man for three nights, although thou art not dumb."

11. So Zakariya came out to his people from him chamber: He told them by signs to celebrate Allah.s praises in the morning and in the evening.

12. (To his son came the command): "O Yahya! take hold of the Book with might": and We gave him Wisdom even as a youth,

13. And piety (for all creatures) as from Us, and purity: He was devout,

14. And kind to his parents, and he was not overbearing or rebellious.

15. So Peace on him the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life (again)!

16. Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.

17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

18. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."

19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

20. She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"

21. He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."
22. So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.

And again here

90. So We listened to him: and We granted him Yahya: We cured his wife's (Barrenness) for him. These (three) were ever quick in emulation in good works; they used to call on Us with love and reverence, and humble themselves before Us.

91. And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

So my question is why is he considered "Just a prophet" when he is clearly not born as a normal human. Did the other prophets have Virgin births?

So my question is why is he considered "Just a prophet" when he is clearly not born as a normal human. Did the other prophets have Virgin births?

Every prophet has something about them that sets them apart. It doesn't mean they're worthy of worship. Only Allah is worthy of worship.

Neo, only Christians think that Jesus is God incarnate. Other religions think diffrerently.

Every prophet has something about them that sets them apart. It doesn't mean they're worthy of worship. Only Allah is worthy of worship.

So how do Muslims explain Jesus's birth if its not God impregnating her (making him God's son...). Also what are the other miraculous things that set prophets apart?

Neo, only Christians think that Jesus is God incarnate. Other religions think diffrerently.

Yes but Islam and Christianity agree on him being born of a virgin birth.

So how do Muslims explain Jesus's birth if its not God impregnating her (making him God's son...)
Lol you can still be a virgin and get pregnant there is non penitrative conception :p

Adam wasn't born in a normal way either, but he is also considered a prophet not the son of God.

Lol you can still be a virgin and get pregnant there is non penitrative conception :p

Im not sure I understand. Can you explain what you mean?

Im not sure I understand. Can you explain what you mean?
Small percentage of conceptions do occur every year from things like sperm contact (it is pretty rare but not unheard of) (hate to talk like this in a religious debate ) but the seemingly largest percentage is thoes who give manual stimulation (handjob) to a guy then manualy stimulate themselves

Its not a big percentage but sperm does not die on contact to air right away it takes an evaporation of some of the fluid that travles with them first

Lol you can still be a virgin and get pregnant there is non penitrative conception :pWe are talking at that time period. if it were that possible... you would hear more "virgin births" than just one.

interesting topic.

So how do Muslims explain Jesus's birth if its not God impregnating her (making him God's son...). Also what are the other miraculous things that set prophets apart?

Read your scripture. Allah didn't impregnate Mary ... an Angel did. Jesus was Nephilim, not the son of Allah.

Read your scripture. Allah didn't impregnate Mary ... an Angel did. Jesus was Nephilim, not the son of Allah.
Intresting :)

here's a question... so both have Jesus, do they have other prophets like Moses and the Apostles who were with Jesus?

We are talking at that time period. if it were that possible... you would hear more "virgin births" than just one.

interesting topic.
You do. There are several stories of virgin births. Jesus' is the only really popular one because it's attatched to a religion that is still alive today.

Good thread so far, thumbs up all around. I hope it doesn't get ruined.

As for the topic, I do believe that the Bible states that God gives everyone life, so the idea of there being no father would only be a distinguishing characteristic of Jesus, not something that would make him a special being.

Anyways, if Jesus truly were the son of God, why would that mean that you should worship him?

here's a question... so both have Jesus, do they have other prophets like Moses and the Apostles who were with Jesus?

Both have Adam, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Elijah, etc. However, Christians claim Torah was fulfilled by Jesus and, thus, no longer important. Qur'an does not contradict, nor abolish, Torah.

Jesus is a prophet, but the apostles are meaningless in Islam.

Another question, why does the Quran translate the same word diffrently on many occations. The word diffrence being "fault" and "sin". In Surah 28:16 Moses asks for forgiveness after killing an Egyptian. The word their is translated as "fault" there when it is the same word used to describe the "sin" applied to Pottiphas wife when she attempted to seduce Jospeh. The same word is seen in Surahs 47 and 48 when Mohammad asks for fogiveness but once again it translates as "faults" as opposed to "sins". And also this word does not seem to be applied to Jesus.

Anyways, if Jesus truly were the son of God, why would that mean that you should worship him?

Good point, but you'll notice that nowhere does it say Allah has said Jesus was Allah's son. Jesus was Yosef and Miriam's son, though a miraculous birth.

Another question, why does the Quran translate the same word diffrently on many occations. The word diffrence being "fault" and "sin". In Surah 28:16 Moses asks for forgiveness after killing an Egyptian. The word their is translated as "fault" there when it is the same word used to describe the "sin" applied to Pottiphas wife when she attempted to seduce Jospeh. The same word is seen in Surahs 47 and 48 when Mohammad asks for fogiveness but once again it translates as "faults" as opposed to "sins". And also this word does not seem to be applied to Jesus.
I am guessing like most translations (bible included) they had to make some guesses as to context and usage of the word

Another question, why does the Quran translate the same word diffrently on many occations. The word diffrence being "fault" and "sin". In Surah 28:16 Moses asks for forgiveness after killing an Egyptian. The word their is translated as "fault" there when it is the same word used to describe the "sin" applied to Pottiphas wife when she attempted to seduce Jospeh. The same word is seen in Surahs 47 and 48 when Mohammad asks for fogiveness but once again it translates as "faults" as opposed to "sins". And also this word does not seem to be applied to Jesus.

All languages have a variance of ways to say the same thing. Just look at any thesaurus. It's not unusual.

As for Jesus ... what's your point? Jesus not sinning doesn't make him worthy of worship.

Neo, I think you would be better served by going to a local mosque and asking these questions there. I'm sure they would be glad to help you with translations and interpretations.

All languages have a variance of ways to say the same thing. Just look at any thesaurus. It's not unusual.

Its the same word though. EXACTLY the same word. Why in one case does it mean fault and another sins.


As for Jesus ... what's your point? Jesus not sinning doesn't make him worthy of worship.

Well that makes him stand out a great deal since everone else (Including Mohhammad) sinned.

Neo, I think you would be better served by going to a local mosque and asking these questions there. I'm sure they would be glad to help you with translations and interpretations.

Not gonna happen. Neo's attempting here to formulate an argument that would make it conceivable for a Muslim to convert to Christianity without having to completely turn their back on Qur'an.

Same trick they used on Pagans. Muslims are too smart for that, though.

Not gonna happen. Neo's attempting here to formulate an argument that would make it conceivable for a Muslim to convert to Christianity without having to completely turn their back on Qur'an.

Same trick they used on Pagans. Muslims are too smart for that, though.
Well, if he keeps asking these questions, he's obviously showing an interest in Islam. It might convert him if he keeps it up.

Its the same word though. EXACTLY the same word. Why in one case does it mean fault and another sins.

Then it's translated in context, rather than directly. One single word can be used to mean different things. It depends on the context.

Well that makes him stand out a great deal since everone else (Including Mohhammad) sinned.

Not everyone. Isaiah never sinned, Edom never sinned, etc etc. Many prophets did sin, but all of that is incidental. Only Allah is worthy of worship. Even if Allah had a son, worshipping the son would be blasphemy.

Then it's translated in context, rather than directly. One single word can be used to mean different things. It depends on the context.



Not everyone. Isaiah never sinned, Edom never sinned, etc etc. Many prophets did sin, but all of that is incidental. Only Allah is worthy of worship. Even if Allah had a son, worshipping the son would be blasphemy.
I seem to remember saying that :p

I seem to remember saying that :p

Yep ... you sure did. :D

Same trick they used on Pagans. Muslims are too smart for that, though.
It wasn't a question of intelligence for pagans. They were faced with Roman military superiority. They could join their conquerors or be oppressed by them. Making Christian beleifs and festivals more analogous to pagan ones allowed the pagans to join Christianity and not feel like they'd completely turned their back on their culture and traditions. Kind of like the way Islam was pushed onto conquered Jewish and Christian communities. Live as a second class "dhimmi" citizen, or join a religion similar to yours and live a more or less normal life.