NationStates Jolt Archive


Proof that Microsoft is doing something illegal

BLARGistania
19-04-2005, 06:09
Agressive advertising or animal creulty? You decide!

http://www.twoguys.org/~gregh/ms/msmktg.jpg



Now, on a slightly more serious note. Microsoft is already facing EU charges in the EU circut courts. In addition, European business has backed the move to penalize microsoft for its aggressive marketing actions.

Should Microsoft be punished? Is this even in EU jurisdiction?
[NS]Ein Deutscher
19-04-2005, 06:28
Microsoft may burn in hell. I wish they'd be crushed and shattered into smaller companies. If the EU fines them to hell and back for doing illegal stuff, good for them! End the monopoly and help competition grow - that's fine with me.
Patra Caesar
19-04-2005, 06:36
I don't think it's cruel, just a coarse joke.

Windows '98, eh? Bit out dated...
[NS]Ein Deutscher
19-04-2005, 06:37
I don't think it's cruel, just a coarse joke.

Windows '98, eh? Bit out dated...
We use the relatively new Windows XP too. Most universities and schools use Windows 2000 though.
LazyHippies
19-04-2005, 06:39
They should be penalized. Their illegal actions have stifled innovation and caused serious harm to the market.
Gauthier
19-04-2005, 06:47
National Lampoon can just sue Microsoft for trademark infringement.
Doom777
19-04-2005, 06:49
Microsoft appeals to "housewifes" through its ease of use, and candy graphics. Programmers, and advanced users hate it, because it has poor functionality, and treats all its users as complete idiots. Also, it is more difficult to make applications for.
Helioterra
19-04-2005, 07:11
I LOVE THIS COMPANY!!

Seriously, the CEO is one of the scariest men alive.
Without Microsoft there wouldn't been all those brilliant anti-Microsoft songs. There's always something positive...
Evil Arch Conservative
19-04-2005, 07:36
Microsoft isn't in any trouble. If they can't buy the European Union outright they'll just create a union to compete with the EU. Eventually, through predatory marketing practices Microsoft will edge the EU out of the 'European political stability and economic development' market. Problem solved.
BLARGistania
19-04-2005, 07:37
Microsoft isn't in any trouble. If they can't buy the European Union outright they'll just create a union to compete with the EU. Eventually, through predatory marketing practices Microsoft will edge the EU out of the 'European political stability and economic development' market. Problem solved.

then the EU places sanctions of Microsoft so high that Microsoft can't operate unless it takes losses in Europe.

Tariffs, the tools of the protectionists.
Arammanar
19-04-2005, 07:55
then the EU places sanctions of Microsoft so high that Microsoft can't operate unless it takes losses in Europe.

Tariffs, the tools of the protectionists.
Or it just won't do business with Europe. It would hurt Europe more than Microsoft.
Doom777
19-04-2005, 07:58
Or it just won't do business with Europe. It would hurt Europe more than Microsoft.
Wow.. can you imagine all of europe on linux?
Arammanar
19-04-2005, 08:00
Wow.. can you imagine all of europe on linux?
Or God forbid, Apples. *shudders for Europe's sake
Troon
19-04-2005, 08:06
Or God forbid, Apples. *shudders for Europe's sake

Just because it would make us so much more powerful than the US...
Arammanar
19-04-2005, 08:17
Just because it would make us so much more powerful than the US...
Please. Try using an Apple before assuming they're usable. I had one for a year, gave it back and went Microsoft. Never regretted it.
See u Jimmy
19-04-2005, 08:50
Please. Try using an Apple before assuming they're usable. I had one for a year, gave it back and went Microsoft. Never regretted it.

I have used Linux for over a year and love it. all those different flavours.
Pick the right one and its as easy as Microshaft but more powerful quicker and no need to defrag, less likely to get virus'.

You do need to put in the effort for the first couple of months as the installations are a bit more technical, but you at least feel that you have achived something.

Oh yes, and it FREEEEEEEEE
The Atomic Alliance
19-04-2005, 08:56
Vote 1 Microsoft for global government.

Everyone's "doing something illegal" big deal. I've got no qualms with MS. I don't know why all these wannabe courageous rebels love ranting about making a some sort of crusade against them (for no apparent reason other than to try and make themselves sound like idiots, plus waste electricity in the process of typing, thus contributing to global warming while they burn oil/coal at the power plant to keep us all online either that or burying radioactive posts underground, so they may one day contaminate ground water and turn us into mutants, not theres something criminal])
Arammanar
19-04-2005, 09:16
I have used Linux for over a year and love it. all those different flavours.
Pick the right one and its as easy as Microshaft but more powerful quicker and no need to defrag, less likely to get virus'.

You do need to put in the effort for the first couple of months as the installations are a bit more technical, but you at least feel that you have achived something.

Oh yes, and it FREEEEEEEEE
I've used Linux and like it well enough. Don't like how unreliable its software is. And you only have to worry about getting a virus if you do something stupid, which is a problem regardless of OS.
See u Jimmy
19-04-2005, 09:19
I've used Linux and like it well enough. Don't like how unreliable its software is. And you only have to worry about getting a virus if you do something stupid, which is a problem regardless of OS.

What software have you been using? I've not had a problem.
Well other than a 1 GB USB key that I killed.(256 works fine)
Arammanar
19-04-2005, 09:32
What software have you been using? I've not had a problem.
Well other than a 1 GB USB key that I killed.(256 works fine)
Well, I tried doing some stuff in PERL. Didn't like it at all.
Kanabia
19-04-2005, 11:47
They should be penalized. Their illegal actions have stifled innovation and caused serious harm to the market.

I really *hate* to play devils advocate here, but you could also argue that with the majority of the market standardising on windows, it's a lot easier for software developers to focus on that platform and optimize their products for it.
Smecks
19-04-2005, 11:55
because you know that the mac ads are so much beter

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v199/HazardHunt/imac.jpg
Greater Yubari
19-04-2005, 11:58
Well, in Linux you have to do something really stupid in order to get a virus.

With Windows you just need to run Internet Epxlorer. That thing is so messed up.

Macs? No comment, they're hyped, that's all. They're not really more reliable, give me two minutes and I crash one. And they look really really shitty.
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 12:20
I really *hate* to play devils advocate here, but you could also argue that with the majority of the market standardising on windows, it's a lot easier for software developers to focus on that platform and optimize their products for it.

That's exactly why MS has that market share. The "housewives" mentioned earlier also include a good slice of the working populace that is rather computer illiterate. If you make the platform easy to use, of course businesses will flock to it--less training means less invested hours, and more making-money-hours.

By the time you get done kicking out the cash to train your users how to use LINUX (including administration, app development, set-up and tweaking, security, etc.), you have paid the equivalent of the cost of licensing fees that you'd pay to MS to put something in and set it up. Don't forget, most businesses want support, which means they have to PURCHASE a copy of LINUX and all that entails as well. I salute the medium and larger businesses that have done it all themselves, with free versions and supporting the platform themselves, but they are VERY few and far between.

It's just a choice. And if it's the same price, but easier, a business will take the easier road. And that usually means Microsoft.
Lipstopia
19-04-2005, 12:33
Usually when engineering anyting, there is a tradeoff between functionality and ease-of-use. Having more features usually makes something more difficult to use.

MS products are designed for ease-of-use (though there are definitely other problems with their security issues). Linux is designed with advanced functionality in mind, though I imagine there are flavors that allow for ease of use.

The typical homeuser does not have the time, inclination, or probably even the reason to learn or use Linux. Buisinesses may or may not have good reason to use Linux, it just depends on the applications.

Ease of use does not make a company evil, though. Just easier to sell to the common person.

Security holes you can drive a hummer through? No excuse for that.
Troon
19-04-2005, 16:51
Please. Try using an Apple before assuming they're usable. I had one for a year, gave it back and went Microsoft. Never regretted it.

This message typed on a Mac.

I've been using Macs for at least 12 years. I *attempted* to use Windows for my schooling for around 5 years. And hated it.

I'm not going to argue here, because everyone on this thread will be very opinionated one way or the other.

I am curious, however, as to why everyone keeps touting Windows to be easy to use...
Buechoria
19-04-2005, 16:57
Uhm... Am I the only guy who likes Microsoft?
UpwardThrust
19-04-2005, 16:57
This message typed on a Mac.

I've been using Macs for at least 12 years. I *attempted* to use Windows for my schooling for around 5 years. And hated it.

I'm not going to argue here, because everyone on this thread will be very opinionated one way or the other.

I am curious, however, as to why everyone keeps touting Windows to be easy to use...
I just hate mac hardware :p Slackware/BSD is the way to go :p
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 18:02
Uhm... Am I the only guy who likes Microsoft?

No. I'm most familiar with the MS stuff, and that's what I lean toward when looking for IT solutions. As long as you stay with the patching, things continue to work with a minimum of exposure.

However, I'm in IT security, and most of the decent tools are UNIX or LINUX based, so I had to familiarize myself.
UpwardThrust
19-04-2005, 18:10
No. I'm most familiar with the MS stuff, and that's what I lean toward when looking for IT solutions. As long as you stay with the patching, things continue to work with a minimum of exposure.

However, I'm in IT security, and most of the decent tools are UNIX or LINUX based, so I had to familiarize myself.
Though there are portings for most of the tools (hell use ciygwin if not lol)

:) and always glad to see another security guy :) I got my masters in Computer information security and data communications (with my other masters in Network simulation and design)
Kraytia
19-04-2005, 18:18
You will never crush Microsoft! Death to open source!
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!



Sorry. I'm just sick of that you could fill Grand Canyon with all MS bashers that have infested the Internet.
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 18:19
Though there are portings for most of the tools (hell use ciygwin if not lol)


True, but I've seen some loss in the translation on some of them--it's odd--but enough to keep me monkeying with LINUX. :D


:) and always glad to see another security guy :) I got my masters in Computer information security and data communications (with my other masters in Network simulation and design)

Zero degree for me (though I'm working on a BA in BA because the silly industry seems to want to see degrees again)--10 years experience and a few certs to fill up the business card (the ones on it are CISSP, MCSE, CCNA--whee--anything with a plus on it takes too much space. :) ). Currently, I seem to be using my security background for policy and general corporate guidance, rather than the tech skills (kinda missing that aspect, but hey, this direction has more of the cash...and a LOT more free time on weekends!).
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 18:20
You will never crush Microsoft! Death to open source!
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!



Sorry. I'm just sick of that you could fill Grand Canyon with all MS bashers that have infested the Internet.

Biggest target. Humans are lazy. :D
UpwardThrust
19-04-2005, 19:34
True, but I've seen some loss in the translation on some of them--it's odd--but enough to keep me monkeying with LINUX. :D



Zero degree for me (though I'm working on a BA in BA because the silly industry seems to want to see degrees again)--10 years experience and a few certs to fill up the business card (the ones on it are CISSP, MCSE, CCNA--whee--anything with a plus on it takes too much space. :) ). Currently, I seem to be using my security background for policy and general corporate guidance, rather than the tech skills (kinda missing that aspect, but hey, this direction has more of the cash...and a LOT more free time on weekends!).
I have my MCSE and CCNA as well
I also out in the work place (Minnesota State Collages and Universities Network admin as well as being St Cloud. States Residential hall Network coordinator)

I don’t feel bad :-D I’m only 22 and already making 50 + k a year :D
UpwardThrust
19-04-2005, 19:36
Biggest target. Humans are lazy. :D
I want to kiss you :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: No one else understands the biggest target concept

Yes *Nix is pretty secure now (if you know what you are doing) but
1) they never were as big of target as microsoft
2) they did not have to worry about the idiot end users on the scale microsoft does
CthulhuFhtagn
19-04-2005, 19:44
With Windows you just need to run Internet Epxlorer. That thing is so messed up.

Only if you're stupid enough to click on banner ads and pop-ups. Otherwise it's fine.
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 19:47
I have my MCSE and CCNA as well
I also out in the work place (Minnesota State Collages and Universities Network admin as well as being St Cloud. States Residential hall Network coordinator)

I don’t feel bad :-D I’m only 22 and already making 50 + k a year :D

Yeah, it does have its perks. :)

I work for a DoD contractor, myself.
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 19:49
I want to kiss you :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle: No one else understands the biggest target concept

Yes *Nix is pretty secure now (if you know what you are doing) but
1) they never were as big of target as microsoft
2) they did not have to worry about the idiot end users on the scale microsoft does

Yup, anyone that had 90% of the market would have to face the same challenges.
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 19:50
Only if you're stupid enough to click on banner ads and pop-ups. Otherwise it's fine.

The occasional patch helps, too.

And pay for your porn! :D
UpwardThrust
19-04-2005, 19:52
Yup, anyone that had 90% of the market would have to face the same challenges.
Exactly with the target market (the average idiot user) combined with the massive target they make
And combine that with how new it really is compared to *nix (Specialy System V or BSD cores) and there you have a lot of the situation they are in
UpwardThrust
19-04-2005, 19:53
The occasional patch helps, too.

And pay for your porn! :D
Dont forget a good ol all purpose firewall (downloaders piggybacking on network aware viruii/worms has been a big issue latly)

aA well as avoiding a lot of thoes stupid online games ... I know some are adicting but some come with a lot of crap with them :p
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 19:55
Exactly with the target market (the average idiot user) combined with the massive target they make
And combine that with how new it really is compared to *nix (Specialy System V or BSD cores) and there you have a lot of the situation they are in

Bingo.
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 19:57
Dont forget a good ol all purpose firewall (downloaders piggybacking on network aware viruii/worms has been a big issue latly)

aA well as avoiding a lot of thoes stupid online games ... I know some are adicting but some come with a lot of crap with them :p

I just wish there was some way to raise awareness. Phishing has got to be the easiest game these days.
Mormon States
19-04-2005, 20:20
Vote 1 Microsoft for global government.

Everyone's "doing something illegal" big deal. I've got no qualms with MS. I don't know why all these wannabe courageous rebels love ranting about making a some sort of crusade against them (for no apparent reason other than to try and make themselves sound like idiots, plus waste electricity in the process of typing, thus contributing to global warming while they burn oil/coal at the power plant to keep us all online either that or burying radioactive posts underground, so they may one day contaminate ground water and turn us into mutants, not theres something criminal])

I love Microsoft, I use Linux on two of my computers, but Microsoft for my "big" computer. I really like Linux for the learning experience, but as for Star Wars Galaxies.......
The Cat-Tribe
19-04-2005, 21:11
This has been interesting.

Now I know what all the IT people are doing when I can't find one to fix a computer problem -- they are on the NS Forums!!!! ;) :D



just kidding, please don't make my computer explode :eek:
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 21:49
This has been interesting.

Now I know what all the IT people are doing when I can't find one to fix a computer problem -- they are on the NS Forums!!!! ;) :D



just kidding, please don't make my computer explode :eek:

We're not I/T, Cat. We're the shadows of the night, we're the men of mist, we don't exist.... <wiggles fingers> We watch and we hunt. ;)

But we COULD make your computer explode. If we didn't already know that Carnivore is already out there and running... :eek:
Takuma
19-04-2005, 21:52
Microsoft appeals to "housewifes" through its ease of use, and candy graphics. Programmers, and advanced users hate it, because it has poor functionality, and treats all its users as complete idiots. Also, it is more difficult to make applications for.

Pro is MUCH! better. Home is the piece of shit for soccer moms who don't know a mouse from a modem. ^.^
Kiwicrog
19-04-2005, 22:11
Well, in Linux you have to do something really stupid in order to get a virus.

With Windows you just need to run Internet Epxlorer. That thing is so messed up.I'm a "Windows with Firefox" kinda guy myself.

Could never be bothered setting up a linux computer. For the simple reason of... why bother?

On this windows computer I can check my emails, surf the net, play music, do assignments and play games. Linux would not benefit me in any way! It would probably just make games harder to find.

And for those that decry "housewives;" remember that it's only an iddle-biddy proportion of household users who need/want their computer to do anything more than my list above.

That's why Microsoft is standard and fiddling with Linux is left to the "computer-enthusiasts" ;)
Zaxon
19-04-2005, 22:15
I'm a "Windows with Firefox" kinda guy myself.


It's a good start. Just make sure you don't start getting all those Java-based viruses (rather than the Active-X-based ones). The sandbox CAN be broken.
Myrmidonisia
19-04-2005, 22:45
Wow.. can you imagine all of europe on linux?
And programming in Ada. What a match!
Cassopia
19-04-2005, 22:54
What has Mircosoft done illegal? You can't cull a company for "aggresive marketing", just because they have the money to buy more advertisments in different medias.
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 04:18
I just wish there was some way to raise awareness. Phishing has got to be the easiest game these days.
Never underestimate the idiocy of a user that sees a legit looking e-mail they will sign their soul away if they THINK it is legit
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 04:20
It's a good start. Just make sure you don't start getting all those Java-based viruses (rather than the Active-X-based ones). The sandbox CAN be broken.
Yup and it comes with the problems microsoft faces

The more you people USE firefox (well me too) the bigger target it is ... the more that will be written for it... it WILL happen
There are already java popups ... the rest will follow
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 04:22
We're not I/T, Cat. We're the shadows of the night, we're the men of mist, we don't exist.... <wiggles fingers> We watch and we hunt. ;)

But we COULD make your computer explode. If we didn't already know that Carnivore is already out there and running... :eek:
Yo Zaxon ... just curious how did you get into security

(myself I came in the home made way ... white had sinse 01) Just curious
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 04:26
Now enough for the bitching ... some solutions (sure zax will back me up)

The biggest thing right now microsoft could do (and pretty simple) is implement better user rights management

Right now the average (most users) on a windows machine (for ease of use) are setup as administrators with full rights to the computer (which means all programs even viruii also have thoes privilages when run)
*solution
Follow the *nix setup with all users except thoes specificaly set by root as some lesser user

This would almost stop ACTUAL viruii (worms and other threats different issue)
Also would SERIOUSLY curtail spyware mal-ware threats
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 13:30
Yup and it comes with the problems microsoft faces

The more you people USE firefox (well me too) the bigger target it is ... the more that will be written for it... it WILL happen
There are already java popups ... the rest will follow

Indeed. :(
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 13:34
Yo Zaxon ... just curious how did you get into security

(myself I came in the home made way ... white had sinse 01) Just curious

Rather fell into it, actually. It seemed to be an extension of my sysadmin background and my defensive-mindedness. Just started securing systems, reading, and viola! I'm a security dude!

I'm sure you can look for any number of my posts dealing with physical security as well (ala firearms).

My other half actually manages a security team at a different company. So, when we come home and bitch about the day, we REALLY know what the other is talking about. :)
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 13:38
Now enough for the bitching ... some solutions (sure zax will back me up)

The biggest thing right now microsoft could do (and pretty simple) is implement better user rights management

Right now the average (most users) on a windows machine (for ease of use) are setup as administrators with full rights to the computer (which means all programs even viruii also have thoes privilages when run)
*solution
Follow the *nix setup with all users except thoes specificaly set by root as some lesser user

This would almost stop ACTUAL viruii (worms and other threats different issue)
Also would SERIOUSLY curtail spyware mal-ware threats

If possible, always use Active Directory with Windows networks. Limit local security in the extreme. Set policies for workstations--don't let the end user be an admin--ever.

One side note--if you don't need Active X, don't use it.

Limit the sites your employees can go to.

Use policies (technical, not administrative) that force virus checks on all files opening, closing, and transmitting.

Biggest asset to any company: a Security Awareness program. The end user is your best defense and your greatest weakness. Mitigate the problems from the user, and you cover 95% of the security problems your systems will face.
Prelasia
20-04-2005, 13:42
I have used Linux for over a year and love it. all those different flavours.
Pick the right one and its as easy as Microshaft but more powerful quicker and no need to defrag, less likely to get virus'.

You do need to put in the effort for the first couple of months as the installations are a bit more technical, but you at least feel that you have achived something.

Oh yes, and it FREEEEEEEEE
Linux owns! They're not afraid to take the piss out of themselves. I'm running SUSE Linux 9 and Windows XP.
Get SUSE Linux. It rocks.
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 13:46
Linux owns! They're not afraid to take the piss out of themselves. I'm running SUSE Linux 9 and Windows XP.
Get SUSE Linux. It rocks.

Didn't Novell buy them? What's that cost these days?

There's no one saying that LINUX is bad--it just takes a lot more research and sysadmin time to get it to do what you need it to do. It's perfectly viable, just so long as everyone understands that you'll be paying the same in the end--dollars up from with Microsoft, and dollars in the background training admins and time setting up proper security with LINUX.
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 13:57
If possible, always use Active Directory with Windows networks. Limit local security in the extreme. Set policies for workstations--don't let the end user be an admin--ever.

One side note--if you don't need Active X, don't use it.

Limit the sites your employees can go to.

Use policies (technical, not administrative) that force virus checks on all files opening, closing, and transmitting.

Biggest asset to any company: a Security Awareness program. The end user is your best defense and your greatest weakness. Mitigate the problems from the user, and you cover 95% of the security problems your systems will face.
Agreed ... I was talking more default out of the box home use settings (they have the tendancy to be the biggest problem)
On campus we used AD with forced update to a SUS server so we dont have to go external for the updates. (Combined with a good security policy settings) no lab machine on campus (we have 5500 lab machines)has ever pulled a virus/worm/downloader ... so on so forth
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:00
Didn't Novell buy them? What's that cost these days?

There's no one saying that LINUX is bad--it just takes a lot more research and sysadmin time to get it to do what you need it to do. It's perfectly viable, just so long as everyone understands that you'll be paying the same in the end--dollars up from with Microsoft, and dollars in the background training admins and time setting up proper security with LINUX.
Not to mention end user "comfort" and productivity (I think vmware makes a gui that looks and acts like 95)

People are afraid of what they dont know ... end users generaly are not happy when you move things on them and give them a different look

They like what they are used to
And the cost of switching to *NIX on work stations can be prohibitive to productivity depending on the envyroment

(And it was either SUSE or Mandrake that was bought by novell I dont remember)
Doujin
20-04-2005, 14:01
I would like XP so much better if it had Linux's user rights system... ie login as the account now, and then have a "root" system that is admin, and whenever I wanna install it prompts me for a password and i enter the password and it installs and stays in the install mode for the next 5 minutes before it auto-logs me out of "root"

Maybe with Longhorn :-D
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:03
I would like XP so much better if it had Linux's user rights system... ie login as the account now, and then have a "root" system that is admin, and whenever I wanna install it prompts me for a password and i enter the password and it installs and stays in the install mode for the next 5 minutes before it auto-logs me out of "root"

Maybe with Longhorn :-D
Doubtfull the average user does not want to switch between users (not to mention it would be no where neer as fast of switch as text mode)
Also would not want the autologout I would be in the middle of something garonteed
Doujin
20-04-2005, 14:11
your right, which is why i want it to prompt for a root password before installation and system files can be accessed, instead of logging out and switching over to an administrative account on the computer which I would have to do now on Windows but wouldn't on Linux. And it wouldn't auto-logout if you were actively making changes to system files or installing a program or anything.
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:15
your right, which is why i want it to prompt for a root password before installation and system files can be accessed, instead of logging out and switching over to an administrative account on the computer which I would have to do now on Windows but wouldn't on Linux. And it wouldn't auto-logout if you were actively making changes to system files or installing a program or anything.
While a good step still suseptable to social engeneered attacks (such as the "wow take a look at this" links in profiles or emails)

Lol we need a way to protect against over itchy clicker fingers :p
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 14:23
Agreed ... I was talking more default out of the box home use settings (they have the tendancy to be the biggest problem)
On campus we used AD with forced update to a SUS server so we dont have to go external for the updates. (Combined with a good security policy settings) no lab machine on campus (we have 5500 lab machines)has ever pulled a virus/worm/downloader ... so on so forth

Is SUS 2.0 out yet? I'm looking forward to the office update functionality.
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 14:32
Doubtfull the average user does not want to switch between users (not to mention it would be no where neer as fast of switch as text mode)
Also would not want the autologout I would be in the middle of something garonteed

Don't forget the exec who can't possibly be bothered to think, when logging in. :D
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:34
Is SUS 2.0 out yet? I'm looking forward to the office update functionality.
Well we got a coppy :) but we are big enough we were geting server 03 in 01-02 :) We are heavy usage for a campus and they like to use us as a test bed :p

(But Server side is not my specialty I am ResNet Coordinator so tend to deal with individual security policies and lots of viral chasing as well as all the network design and maint)

We have 13k studants total so our servers are handled by a good group of people (that and we are doing some crazy modified imaging and roaming profile things on a fairly large scale) lol things get intresting :)
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 14:34
While a good step still suseptable to social engeneered attacks (such as the "wow take a look at this" links in profiles or emails)

Lol we need a way to protect against over itchy clicker fingers :p

I've discussed this with several others before, and we've decided that electricity must be used in some fashion--be it the shock collars or all-metal keyboards that deliver the zap, when the user performs a no-no.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:35
Don't forget the exec who can't possibly be bothered to think, when logging in. :D
To be fair I hate thinking as well specialy when I have like 4 accounts for myself
:p
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 14:36
Well we got a coppy :) but we are big enough we were geting server 03 in 01-02 :) We are heavy usage for a campus and they like to use us as a test bed :p


I've been out of the operational side of things a while, I should saunter on downstairs and see what goodies are around. :)
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:36
I've discussed this with several others before, and we've decided that electricity must be used in some fashion--be it the shock collars or all-metal keyboards that deliver the zap, when the user performs a no-no.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I see the potential :p
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:37
I've been out of the operational side of things a while, I should saunter on downstairs and see what goodies are around. :)
Know the feeling ... I have been buried in Geting NS to simulate the network along with the normal hunt down switching gear (my staff takes care of all the easy studant machine repair but I end up with the stuff none of them can figure out) lol
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 14:43
To be fair I hate thinking as well specialy when I have like 4 accounts for myself
:p

ONLY FOUR??? Whiner. :D
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 14:45
Know the feeling ... I have been buried in Geting NS to simulate the network along with the normal hunt down switching gear (my staff takes care of all the easy studant machine repair but I end up with the stuff none of them can figure out) lol

I've been getting us HIPAA and DITSCAP compliant for the last year and a half. Ooog. But damn, I'll be qualified for....something. Abuse, methinks. ;)
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:49
ONLY FOUR??? Whiner. :D
Four personaly used ...4 more sectoned ftp accounts and a plethora of other ... on my first BSD machine :p
Aeruillin
20-04-2005, 14:49
Please. Try using an Apple before assuming they're usable. I had one for a year, gave it back and went Microsoft. Never regretted it.

I dare you to do the same with Linux.

A year ago, my Windows NT4 hard drive crashed, leaving me unable to use my computer for a week. After that, I booted it with a Linux "Knoppix" CD-rom. Without any use of hard drives, without any floppies, with nothing but a 20kBs internet connection to save my stuff online.

I installed XP a month later, of course, because I couldn't cope with it.

But I still think this crash is one of the best things my computer has ever done to me.
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:51
I've been getting us HIPAA and DITSCAP compliant for the last year and a half. Ooog. But damn, I'll be qualified for....something. Abuse, methinks. ;)
Gah I hate HIPAA (I do some outside consulting to CentraCare facilities in the area and being a medical non proffit org ... HIPAA is a big issue)
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:51
I dare you to do the same with Linux.

A year ago, my Windows NT4 hard drive crashed, leaving me unable to use my computer for a week. After that, I booted it with a Linux "Knoppix" CD-rom. Without any use of hard drives, without any floppies, with nothing but a 20kBs internet connection to save my stuff online.

I installed XP a month later, of course, because I couldn't cope with it.

But I still think this crash is one of the best things my computer has ever done to me.
Making my own FreeBSD Live Cd myself :D
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 14:52
Well be back in an hour ... I got to do a presentation on OSILayer security :p
New Genoa
20-04-2005, 14:55
http://www.nixp.ru/pub/walls/s_linux_communist.jpg

Death to open source.
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 14:56
Gah I hate HIPAA (I do some outside consulting to CentraCare facilities in the area and being a medical non proffit org ... HIPAA is a big issue)

And it will continue to be....thank you, Ted Kennedy....gah.
Zaxon
20-04-2005, 14:57
Well be back in an hour ... I got to do a presentation on OSILayer security :p

I've got to get back to printing binders....whee. After today (HIPAA Security deadline is today), I'm gonna drink a LOT. The mind-numbingness will finally be over--for a while...
Vickroyland
20-04-2005, 15:02
the gates foundation gives millions of dollars every year to large urban school districts to revamp high school education as we know it. Yes the ad is stupid but we need to remember that it is just an ad not reality. Go after some really bad guys like the oil billionaires and i'll agree but bill gates just happens to be one heck of a smart man who had a great product that everyone wants or needs to buy. Check out his ideas with the KNowledge Works Foundation and see what great strides they are making in education reform. :)
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 16:14
the gates foundation gives millions of dollars every year to large urban school districts to revamp high school education as we know it. Yes the ad is stupid but we need to remember that it is just an ad not reality. Go after some really bad guys like the oil billionaires and i'll agree but bill gates just happens to be one heck of a smart man who had a great product that everyone wants or needs to buy. Check out his ideas with the KNowledge Works Foundation and see what great strides they are making in education reform. :)
Bill gates smarts had nothing to do with it ... he had a moded version of PCDOS that he passed off as his own origional work as MSDOS
UpwardThrust
20-04-2005, 16:16
And it will continue to be....thank you, Ted Kennedy....gah.
At least it has had the advantage of being used as an excuse for Hardware and software for them. All I have to say is "to become HIPAA complient ..." LOL
Protonland
20-04-2005, 17:05
http://www.nixp.ru/pub/walls/s_linux_communist.jpg

Death to open source.

Before anyone takes that seriously, let me explain my view of the things:

Linux -----> Competition ----> Reasonable Capitalism
Microsoft ----> Monopoly ----> Anti-Capitalism
Protonland
20-04-2005, 17:08
the gates foundation gives millions of dollars every year to large urban school districts to revamp high school education as we know it. Yes the ad is stupid but we need to remember that it is just an ad not reality. Go after some really bad guys like the oil billionaires and i'll agree but bill gates just happens to be one heck of a smart man who had a great product that everyone wants or needs to buy. Check out his ideas with the KNowledge Works Foundation and see what great strides they are making in education reform. :)

That guy is a serial killer but last year he gave 100 €\$ to someone who needed the money, so he is a good guy...
UpwardThrust
21-04-2005, 16:40
That guy is a serial killer but last year he gave 100 €\$ to someone who needed the money, so he is a good guy...
Not really but he has been a genius at marketing