NationStates Jolt Archive

I find it funney how so many people will choose to bear false witness when recounding the "Horrible opression" that the ban on organized prayer in schools has caused. I have heard any number of lies about this subject. Here is the truth. (of course, this only applies in America.)

You can pray in school
You can read a bible in school
You can wear a cross in school
In fact, you can stand on a desk with a cross in one hand and a bible in the other and shout your prayer to God to the entire room. (so far as you could stand on a desk and shout anything)
After school is out, you can hold prayer meetings on campus with your friends
You can use school facilities for bible study groups after school is out
You are allowed to bring up God or religion in classroom discussions

Now, with that on the record, you are not:
Allowed to ask the rest of the class to join you in prayer.
That is the only limitation placed upon you. This limitation exists to prevent students who do not accept your particular beliefs from feeling singled out, especially in an environment where they are legally bound to be in until they are sixteen.

Also, schools may not broadcast or post religious messages, and teachers may not read passages from a religious book aloud in class, or pray aloud, or lead their class in prayer. Teachers may discuss their religion, but they are not allowed to preach.

These limitations apply to every single religion.
How is this unacceptable?

Yeah, I never understood why anyone thought banning school prayer was so horrible anyway. All it's doing is not forcing other people to share someone's religious beliefs.

Yeah, I never understood why anyone thought banning school prayer was so horrible anyway. All it's doing is not forcing other people to share someone's religious beliefs.


Isn't it obvious? The USA is a theocracy and we are supposed to obey the precepts of the state religion . . . :rolleyes:

Dosto, you've just transported me back to Russian classes. Nothing like a spot of sightseeing.[/offtopic]

Um. Prayer in school? The law as stated above seems reasonable to me.

its not the law that drives people crazy
its that now and then some idiot school administrator will suspend some poor 3rd grader for bringing her bible to school or goes nutz over having "the first noel" sung at the "winter celebration program"

excessive praying in school leads to unhealthy masterbation practices and guilty nocturnal emmissions, which inturn leads to the development of nasty fetishes, which require professional escort services to fufill, which leads to massive cash influxes into the coffers of organized crime, which weakens the american criminal justice system and through it american democracy.

ie... school prayer is unamerican

good point ernst - im living proof of that

excessive praying in school leads to unhealthy masterbation practices and guilty nocturnal emmissions, which inturn leads to the development of nasty fetishes, which require professional escort services to fufill, which leads to massive cash influxes into the coffers of organized crime, which weakens the american criminal justice system and through it american democracy.

ie... school prayer is unamerican


Actually people who masturbate frequently are less likely to have nocturnal admission.

This has been a public service announcement by the Committee for Sexual Education and Awareness.

Actually people who masturbate frequently are less likely to have nocturnal admission.

This has been a public service announcement by the Committee for Sexual Education and Awareness.
Why do you think school prayer is such an insidious problem? Exactly!

As long as they keep to themselves - let the hopelessly mindless sheep pray all they want, but God still won't save them.

In fact, you can stand on a desk with a cross in one hand and a bible in the other and shout your prayer to God to the entire room. (so far as you could stand on a desk and shout anything)
No, you can't. This is a disruption and will land you squarely in the principal's office -- not because it has anything to do with prayer, but because it is unsafe, disruptive, and hostile.

teachers may not read passages from a religious book aloud in class...
Really? How about a "Bible as Literature" elective? Comparative religion class? background information on a particular culture or time period?

So long as it is clear that the text is not meant to coerce or convert anyone in any way, and that it is being studied for its political/social/historical/philosophical context rather than "you all should believe this," it should be fine.

Really? How about a "Bible as Literature" elective? Comparative religion class? background information on a particular culture or time period?

So long as it is clear that the text is not meant to coerce or convert anyone in any way, and that it is being studied for its political/social/historical/philosophical context rather than "you all should believe this," it should be fine.
While I agree with you in the basis of this context, I shall play the devil's advocate, and reply: it is quite possible that it was meant in general, and thus omitting the use of such religious materials in anything but a class that is strictly dedicated to the study of the bible as literature etc...

....and teachers may not read passages from a religious book aloud in class, or pray aloud, or lead their class in prayer. Teachers may discuss their religion, but they are not allowed to preach.

These limitations apply to every single religion.
How is this unacceptable?

You're forgetting Bible Lit. classes. We had one at my public highschool in California, focussing on the OT, but also parts of the NT. It's legal as well.

Edit: Someone did mention this. That's cool. ;)

While I agree with you in the basis of this context, I shall play the devil's advocate, and reply: it is quite possible that it was meant in general, and thus omitting the use of such religious materials in anything but a class that is strictly dedicated to the study of the bible as literature etc...

However (and especially in my area, which encompasses literature) you do need to touch on the viewpoint of the author and/or the prevailing culture at the time the work was produced. For instance, there are Christian allusions in Shakespeare's plays, among other works, that need to be explained. Sometimes the most efficient way is to show, or to read, the passage the allusion refers to.

You can pray in school. I do
You and your friends can pray in school, if your friends feel like praying with you, knock yourself out.

You can read the bible in school.
You and your friends can talk about the bible in school, if they are so inclined.
You can even have a religious club (or at least you can at my school).

You can wear religious symbols at school all you want. (as long as they're not gang symbols, of course. And remember, everyone else can wear their religious symbols, too.)

What is not allowed:
Teachers leading prayers as a class activity.
An endorsement of any particular religion over others as part of curriculum.


Basically it's ok if YOU pray, just, the school can't be involved in it, and it has to be a personal desicion, not a part of class or anything like that.

However (and especially in my area, which encompasses literature) you do need to touch on the viewpoint of the author and/or the prevailing culture at the time the work was produced. For instance, there are Christian allusions in Shakespeare's plays, among other works, that need to be explained. Sometimes the most efficient way is to show, or to read, the passage the allusion refers to.
Of course; it is necessary at times. In fact, I thik that if there are any religious allusions in literature, they should be explained. But, any form of personal beliefs, unless asked in such systems, should be, ideally kept to one's self.

I did say that you can discuss religion and God during class discussions.

I find it funney how so many people will choose to bear false witness when recounding the "Horrible opression" that the ban on organized prayer in schools has caused. I have heard any number of lies about this subject. Here is the truth. (of course, this only applies in America.)

You can pray in school
You can read a bible in school
You can wear a cross in school
In fact, you can stand on a desk with a cross in one hand and a bible in the other and shout your prayer to God to the entire room. (so far as you could stand on a desk and shout anything)
After school is out, you can hold prayer meetings on campus with your friends
You can use school facilities for bible study groups after school is out
You are allowed to bring up God or religion in classroom discussions

Now, with that on the record, you are not:
Allowed to ask the rest of the class to join you in prayer.
That is the only limitation placed upon you. This limitation exists to prevent students who do not accept your particular beliefs from feeling singled out, especially in an environment where they are legally bound to be in until they are sixteen.

Also, schools may not broadcast or post religious messages, and teachers may not read passages from a religious book aloud in class, or pray aloud, or lead their class in prayer. Teachers may discuss their religion, but they are not allowed to preach.

These limitations apply to every single religion.
How is this unacceptable?


Don't you know that saying anything to a Christian about religion other that "Yes, I have accepted Jesus Christ as my lord and savior" is opressing them?

Yeah, i know, but whiners in the news sure can make it feel like that. In my chior they told me they'd call my dad and have him beat me if I didn't sing about jesus with them. We also had a youth group that came back from a confrence held in a school wearing shirts that said "I broke a rulle, I prayed in school". Some people just need to crucify themselves so everyone can win, they'll feel persecuted like jesus and we'll be rid of their whiney arses. :D

As it is said, as long as there are tests, there shall always be prayer in school... That, and staring up at the celing in the hope that God has miraciously caused the answers to the test to appear on the tiles.

The reason people - and "people" in this case means self-righteous evangelical christians - complain about the current state of affairs with prayer in US public schools is because those same people want their particular brand of religion to hold the monopoly when it comes to the indoctrination of children.

After all ... if kids are allowed to think for themselves, they might figure out how to become adults without the need for Jesus.

The problem is that although what is said in the initial post of this thread is legally accurate, it is not factually so. In theory that should all be true. In practice however, the rights of students to express their religious beleifs are routinely violated. Everything from praying at the flagpole in the morning to reading a paper the student wrote with religious connotations to the class has been banned or punished in one place or another. If what actually goes on matched what the law intended, alot of us wouldnt have a problem with it.

The problem is that although what is said in the initial post of this thread is legally accurate, it is not factually so. In theory that should all be true. In practice however, the rights of students to express their religious beleifs are routinely violated. Everything from praying at the flagpole in the morning to reading a paper the student wrote with religious connotations to the class has been banned or punished in one place or another. If what actually goes on matched what the law intended, alot of us wouldnt have a problem with it.

The current court has been friendly to religious beliefs allowed in schools. By that I mean favorable reading of the Lemon test.

I think people should be able pray all they want wherever they want. I don't care about that. I might watch them amused for a while, but basically I don't give a damn.

Once they ask me to join them, or try to get me joining, trying to put their believe on me... I'll kick their ass.

I think people should be able pray all they want wherever they want. I don't care about that. I might watch them amused for a while, but basically I don't give a damn.

Once they ask me to join them, or try to get me joining, trying to put their believe on me... I'll kick their ass.

Yes, but the argument is that non-religious children feel threatened or intimidated by hearing prayer in their vicinity. Banning prayer would then make that child feel more accepted, or less ostracized, to use more partisan language. In any case, this reasoning is falling out of favor, legally speaking.

Yes, but the argument is that non-religious children feel threatened or intimidated by hearing prayer in their vicinity. Banning prayer would then make that child feel more accepted, or less ostracized, to use more partisan language. In any case, this reasoning is falling out of favor, legally speaking.


Well, I'd say a "school prayer" is a joke anyway. I wouldn't say kids would feel threatened, but the way I see it is, that a school prayer basically does not guarantee religious freedom. If you have it, then you'd need to have one for every religion presented in the school, that would make sense (and take a lot of time).

Funny though, that issue never existed here, since there are no school prayers. The good thing when you have a strict seperation of state and church and education is only property of the state.

Well, I'd say a "school prayer" is a joke anyway. I wouldn't say kids would feel threatened, but the way I see it is, that a school prayer basically does not guarantee religious freedom. If you have it, then you'd need to have one for every religion presented in the school, that would make sense (and take a lot of time).

Funny though, that issue never existed here, since there are no school prayers. The good thing when you have a strict seperation of state and church and education is only property of the state.

The type of "school prayer" being advocated in the U.S. today is not what some might think. Currently, "moment of silence" statutes are the ones being debated. These allow for roughly one minute before daily classes for students of any faith to silently pray. This has been bitterly opposed by groups such as the ACLU and Freedom From Religion Foundation, who claim it benefits Christians primarily, since most of those who would be able to pray under this allowance would be Christians.

I find it funney how so many people will choose to bear false witness when recounding the "Horrible opression" that the ban on organized prayer in schools has caused. I have heard any number of lies about this subject. Here is the truth. (of course, this only applies in America.)

You can pray in school
Mmhmm. So long as you are not being disruptive in class (ie: silent prayer is legal).

You can read a bible in school
See above.

You can wear a cross in school
So long as jewelry is allowed and it's of a reasonable size. (ie: no cross "bling")

In fact, you can stand on a desk with a cross in one hand and a bible in the other and shout your prayer to God to the entire room. (so far as you could stand on a desk and shout anything)

Anything that disrupts the learning process or breaks another school rule is still prohibitted. Just as that which can be construed as "vulgar language" is unprotected by freedom of speech.


After school is out, you can hold prayer meetings on campus with your friends
You can use school facilities for bible study groups after school is out
You are allowed to bring up God or religion in classroom discussions

1. As long as school admin approves and equal accomidations are made for every other religion.
2. See above. You have to apply just as any other "after school orginization " would and meet any requirements including getting a sponser, etc.
3. As long as it's relevant and not seen as disruptive. Teacher DOES have the right to redirect the topic or ask for nonreligous discussion as they see fit. They may also counteract religious comments with proof against them, etc. They have the same rights as you. (IE: Randomly breaking out into a religion based arguement when discussing algebra would be unnacceptable; breaking into an religious arguement when a teacher says "discuss topic xyz without using religion as a ground for your arguement" would be unacceptable)


Now, with that on the record, you are not:
Allowed to ask the rest of the class to join you in prayer.

Yup.


That is the only limitation placed upon you. This limitation exists to prevent students who do not accept your particular beliefs from feeling singled out, especially in an environment where they are legally bound to be in until they are sixteen.

The age may vary, but in most places (if this isn't a federal law?) the legal age is 18 to be able to drop out. That ISN'T the only limitation, either.

You can't disrupt class to do any of the above (ie: shouting on the desk, oral prayer during a lesson, etc.). You can't do any of the above if they break other rules (ie: shouting on the desk). If you're talking about having the RIGHT to use school facilities, etc, you have to take into account that you have to go through the proper channels and can't just waltz into the office and say "I need room 101 for a prayer group. You can't say no because it violates my rights." They will, and should, laugh at you and tell you to go away, if not give you some sort of punishment for being stupid.

As long as everything is done at a proper time (ie: not during teaching or working time) and goes through the proper channels(ie: get permission and sponser for use of facilities) and you aren't breaking any other rules in the process, it's legit. But to say that doing anything that can be construed as "disruptive to the learning process" or say that you can take over school facilities at any time and trying to protect your actions with "right to freedom of religion" is ignorant (and punishable in most cases, although if you make the right people laugh hard enough, they'll probably just kick you out of the office or somesuch).

Also, if a school denys ALL religions from having prayer groups, they can deny yours. They do not have to make accomidations for you just because you want them (and cry "religous protection"). They can turn you down just as they turn down any other.


Also, schools may not broadcast or post religious messages, and teachers may not read passages from a religious book aloud in class, or pray aloud, or lead their class in prayer. Teachers may discuss their religion, but they are not allowed to preach.

Mmhmm. Same things that apply to students generally apply to teachers.


These limitations apply to every single religion.
How is this unacceptable?

The problem with the whole thing is that sometimes Christian prayer groups are encouraged while other religions are discouraged. THIS is what the whole protection of religion thing is trying to protect people from.


This is why the "just say no" clause exists. If you say no to everyone who wants to have a religious club or use the facilities for a religious pupose, it's completely legal. But if you approve of one, you have to approve of every other or face legal action.

People tend to support their actions with the arguement that "the founding fathers were Christian!" Oops, several were deists. Some settlers came for religious reasons. Some wanted a quick buck. Most wanted a quick buck. (Take American History at a higher level if you don't get this concept.) However, religious expression was protected because there were some that came for freedom from religious persecution. Noone should be persecuted, etc. It wasn't protected for whiney school kids who want to cause problems.

That's my $.02

@ Cyrian space: Yeah, even I as a foreign exchange student (from Germany in North Carolina) never really understood what this was all about...

I don't think any state can stop you from dropping out of High School at sixteen. I sure didn't get a notice telling me I couldn't.

Also, as of the Rehnquist court, you do have guaranteed rights of religious expression in public schools. The court upheld an act of congress enumerating dozens of guarantees to this effect.

Naturally, the great majority of religious beliefs widely considered unconstitutional can and do take place in public schools every day. Not every parent is as litigation-crazed as you may see on t.v.

This is why the "just say no" clause exists. If you say no to everyone who wants to have a religious club or use the facilities for a religious pupose, it's completely legal. But if you approve of one, you have to approve of every other or face legal action.
That's my $.02

Not quite.

Via FindLaw:

Access of Religious Groups to Public Property.--Although government may not promote religion through its educational facilities, it may not bar student religious groups from meeting on public school property if it makes those facilities available to nonreligious student groups. To allow religious groups equal access to a public college's facilities would further a secular purpose, would not constitute an impermissible benefit to religion, and would pose little hazard of entanglement.127 These principles apply to public secondary schools as well as to institutions of higher learning.128 In 1990 the Court upheld application of the Equal Access Act129 to prevent a secondary school from denying access to school premises to a student religious club while granting access to such other ''noncurriculum'' related student groups as a scuba diving club, a chess club, and a service club.130

Similarly, public schools may not rely on the Establishment Clause as grounds to discriminate against religious groups in after-hours use of school property otherwise available for non-religious social, civic, and recreational purposes;Supp.6 public colleges may not exclude student religious organizations from benefits otherwise provided to a full spectrum of student ''news, information, opinion, entertainment, or academic communications media groups;''Supp.7 and a state that creates a traditional public forum for citizen speeches and unattended displays on a plaza at its state capitol cannot, on Establishment Clause grounds, deny access for a religious display.Supp.8 These cases make clear that the Establishment Clause does not necessarily trump the First Amendment's protection of freedom of speech; in regulating private speech in a public forum, government may not justify discrimination against religious viewpoints as necessary to avoid creating an ''establishment'' of religion.

=======

Like I was saying, the Rehnquist Court has been quite favorable to freedom of religion arguments.

The problem is that although what is said in the initial post of this thread is legally accurate, it is not factually so. In theory that should all be true. In practice however, the rights of students to express their religious beleifs are routinely violated. Everything from praying at the flagpole in the morning to reading a paper the student wrote with religious connotations to the class has been banned or punished in one place or another. If what actually goes on matched what the law intended, alot of us wouldnt have a problem with it.

Meh.

There are far more violations in the opposite direction -- where schools promote religion unconstitutionally.

This "Christians are oppressed" crap is contrary to the facts and -- if you think for a moment -- to logic. Given the religious sentiments of most Americans, how likely is it that most schools discriminate against religion? On the other hand, how likely is that there is a hysterical overreaction and publicity any time a teacher or school official makes a mistake?

Meh.

There are far more violations in the opposite direction -- where schools promote religion unconstitutionally.

This "Christians are oppressed" crap is contrary to the facts and -- if you think for a moment -- to logic. Given the religious sentiments of most Americans, how likely is it that most schools discriminate against religion? On the other hand, how likely is that there is a hysterical overreaction and publicity any time a teacher or school official makes a mistake?


The treatment of religion in schools looks more like a random walk than policy based on constitutionality. I've seen everything from an extreme prevention of everything except solitary, silent prayer (as long as you don't announce you're praying), to restricting every religion except Islam, to huge prayers before high school football games and graduations.

Depends on where you live, and how locals "interpret" what they feel they can get away with. If you don't like the policies in your area, it's easier to move somewhere else than it is to try to get the courts to change anything.

I think that's why there are 50 states, and why the states have far more real-world leeway than the Constitution implies (or is ever enforced).

I find it funney how so many people will choose to bear false witness when recounding the "Horrible opression" that the ban on organized prayer in schools has caused. I have heard any number of lies about this subject. Here is the truth. (of course, this only applies in America.)

You can pray in school
You can read a bible in school
You can wear a cross in school
In fact, you can stand on a desk with a cross in one hand and a bible in the other and shout your prayer to God to the entire room. (so far as you could stand on a desk and shout anything)
After school is out, you can hold prayer meetings on campus with your friends
You can use school facilities for bible study groups after school is out
You are allowed to bring up God or religion in classroom discussions

Now, with that on the record, you are not:
Allowed to ask the rest of the class to join you in prayer.
That is the only limitation placed upon you. This limitation exists to prevent students who do not accept your particular beliefs from feeling singled out, especially in an environment where they are legally bound to be in until they are sixteen.

Also, schools may not broadcast or post religious messages, and teachers may not read passages from a religious book aloud in class, or pray aloud, or lead their class in prayer. Teachers may discuss their religion, but they are not allowed to preach.

These limitations apply to every single religion.
How is this unacceptable?

It's not unacceptable. As a Christian I find that quite acceptable. The problem with prayer in school concerns which religion will do the praying. Would you pick a religion of the week to pray? For many religions, praying to other deities is unacceptable. How would one handle those students?

It's just simpler all around if people agree that public education should be teaching about religion, not teach religion itself.

I find it funney how so many people will choose to bear false witness when recounding the "Horrible opression" that the ban on organized prayer in schools has caused. I have heard any number of lies about this subject. Here is the truth. (of course, this only applies in America.)

You can pray in school
You can read a bible in school
You can wear a cross in school
In fact, you can stand on a desk with a cross in one hand and a bible in the other and shout your prayer to God to the entire room. (so far as you could stand on a desk and shout anything)
After school is out, you can hold prayer meetings on campus with your friends
You can use school facilities for bible study groups after school is out
You are allowed to bring up God or religion in classroom discussions

Now, with that on the record, you are not:
Allowed to ask the rest of the class to join you in prayer.
That is the only limitation placed upon you. This limitation exists to prevent students who do not accept your particular beliefs from feeling singled out, especially in an environment where they are legally bound to be in until they are sixteen.

Also, schools may not broadcast or post religious messages, and teachers may not read passages from a religious book aloud in class, or pray aloud, or lead their class in prayer. Teachers may discuss their religion, but they are not allowed to preach.

These limitations apply to every single religion.
How is this unacceptable?


You've obviously never been to a proper Catholic school. In primary it was a million prayers for all our family, friends and teachers, then the bells at 12, on your knees for that one more prayers, and a prayer before home. The first friday of every month off to the chapel and when you were old enough confession once a month and this was only 8 years ago!
In secondary school, it all depended on the teacher, most began with prayers usually in Irish/French or Latin, and the very religous said prayers at the end of class (this was very very rare) Mass several times a year.
University-absolutely nothing!!

You've obviously never been to a proper Catholic school. In primary it was a million prayers for all our family, friends and teachers, then the bells at 12, on your knees for that one more prayers, and a prayer before home. The first friday of every month off to the chapel and when you were old enough confession once a month and this was only 8 years ago!
In secondary school, it all depended on the teacher, most began with prayers usually in Irish/French or Latin, and the very religous said prayers at the end of class (this was very very rare) Mass several times a year.
University-absolutely nothing!!
He was talking about USA public school's

its not the law that drives people crazy
its that now and then some idiot school administrator will suspend some poor 3rd grader for bringing her bible to school or goes nutz over having "the first noel" sung at the "winter celebration program"

lol at the political correctness of Christmas

Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings!

lol at the political correctness of Christmas

Happy Holidays and Season's Greetings!


Except that its not just Christmas. Its Hannukah (my apologies if I just slaughtered that spelling) Solstice, Kwanzaa, and for the atheists who bother, its Festivus. Many Christians seem to think that they have a monopoly on December holidays, forgetting that there are many other ones out there for other religions. That is why many people try to be inclusive in our society, and why the government MUST be inclusive (because it cannot promote one religious belief over another). I am all for churches being able to put up huge displays of nativities and all that good stuff--it somehow wouldn't feel like the season even for secular humanistic little ole me. However, people need to realize that they aren't the only ones celebrating the holiday.

Yes, if you say Merry Christmas to me, I will smile and wish you a Merry Christmas as well because I realize that its important to you and is coming as a good wish--but if you say Happy Holidays to me, I will be even more excited because it means that it doesn't matter to you what I am celebrating, but that you are happy for me that I am celebrating something.

You've obviously never been to a proper Catholic school. In primary it was a million prayers for all our family, friends and teachers, then the bells at 12, on your knees for that one more prayers, and a prayer before home. The first friday of every month off to the chapel and when you were old enough confession once a month and this was only 8 years ago!
In secondary school, it all depended on the teacher, most began with prayers usually in Irish/French or Latin, and the very religous said prayers at the end of class (this was very very rare) Mass several times a year.
University-absolutely nothing!!
That's because it's a Catholic school, not a publicly-funded school. :rolleyes: :)

You've obviously never been to a proper Catholic school. In primary it was a million prayers for all our family, friends and teachers, then the bells at 12, on your knees for that one more prayers, and a prayer before home. The first friday of every month off to the chapel and when you were old enough confession once a month and this was only 8 years ago!
In secondary school, it all depended on the teacher, most began with prayers usually in Irish/French or Latin, and the very religous said prayers at the end of class (this was very very rare) Mass several times a year.
University-absolutely nothing!!
i dont think we HAVE proper catholic schools in the US. ive known quite a few people who attended catholic school and i certainly dont remember them ever whining about having that much prayer.

i dont think we HAVE proper catholic schools in the US. ive known quite a few people who attended catholic school and i certainly dont remember them ever whining about having that much prayer.


Wow, you must not live in the part of the country I do. . . several of my good friends hated it. Granted, it wasn't bad as the generic Christian school one of my friends when to, their history textbooks actually described McCarthy as being "a great American hero" and that he was just villified by the commies who said he was just on a "witch hunt". I didn't believe it until she showed it to me.

i dont think we HAVE proper catholic schools in the US. ive known quite a few people who attended catholic school and i certainly dont remember them ever whining about having that much prayer.
I went to catholic elementry school ... I hated going to church 3 times a week :p

We do have some :)

Except that its not just Christmas. Its Hannukah

To be fair, Hannukah and Christmas rarely ever coincide. Hannukah usually falls in late Nov, early Dec.

To be fair, Hannukah and Christmas rarely ever coincide. Hannukah usually falls in late Nov, early Dec.


I'm referring to the general season/month of December. There is a lot going on during that time. To really be fair, schools are rarely in sessions for Christmas :rolleyes:

I find it funney how so many people will choose to bear false witness when recounding the "Horrible opression" that the ban on organized prayer in schools has caused. I have heard any number of lies about this subject. Here is the truth. (of course, this only applies in America.)

You can pray in school
You can read a bible in school
You can wear a cross in school
In fact, you can stand on a desk with a cross in one hand and a bible in the other and shout your prayer to God to the entire room. (so far as you could stand on a desk and shout anything)
After school is out, you can hold prayer meetings on campus with your friends
You can use school facilities for bible study groups after school is out
You are allowed to bring up God or religion in classroom discussions

Now, with that on the record, you are not:
Allowed to ask the rest of the class to join you in prayer.
That is the only limitation placed upon you. This limitation exists to prevent students who do not accept your particular beliefs from feeling singled out, especially in an environment where they are legally bound to be in until they are sixteen.

Also, schools may not broadcast or post religious messages, and teachers may not read passages from a religious book aloud in class, or pray aloud, or lead their class in prayer. Teachers may discuss their religion, but they are not allowed to preach.

These limitations apply to every single religion.
How is this unacceptable?

they actually let you do that in america?! wow, you people are more corrupt than i thought.

they actually let you do that in america?! wow, you people are more corrupt than i thought.
I can even try to kiss you over here :fluffle: I deffinatly would not mind corrupting you :fluffle: :fluffle: