NationStates Jolt Archive

Oh how far we've fallen in political correctness within society when the displining of children has been brought to this level

http://family.msn.com/tool/article.aspx?dept=raising&sdept=rks&name=me_033005_yellingvsspanking&signup=true&offer=2&GT1=6428

If you felt that Hitting children never produced anything useful and only worked against the child and had no meaningful purpose then look out. If your raising your voice against your child you maybe doing the same damage !

Aparently modern day sociologist will have us now taking our children when acting against authority to the side sugar coating every situation speaking in logical termoniology so that the child can bettter "understand the consequences of their actions"

There is one blaring error with this line of thinking which constantly stumps me.

In the article one bit of advice is :
The best way to let a child know she's done something wrong is to make the point that undesirable acts can often have undesirable results.

Example: If you can't get your child to clean up her room, remove every toy she's left on the floor until there's precious little left to play with. Just be sure your child is old enough to understand the connection between her action and the punishment.

One key argument against spanking is that it makes no connection between the deed the child has done and the consequences it conveys :
Spanking may teach your child to be afraid of you when she's done something wrong, but it doesn't teach her the real consequences of her behavior
However in the example given to teach the child consequence isolating the child or removing their toys is the punishment.. how is it different the spanking.. if followed by a little chat both produce the same effect.. only spanking is more memorable while the child after getting his/her toys back will mostlikely forget what they've learned far faster.

Some of the other suggestions are almost obsurd if not insulting to see these "professionals" suggest for child discipline. In an age where we are so "sensitive" to the childs health and what is "effective" social edica has gone down the drain, respect for authority by youth is almost non existant... children slur obsenities of all types that would have 30 years ago curled the hair on most peoples heads. When children in elementary and secondary schools are more and more becoming sexually active at an earlier age how can we claim our new methods are superior or even effective ??

Defuse with humor. Attempt the most out-of-character thing you can think of. One parent began laughing as she felt the urge to yell at her 7-year-old daughter. Not just giggles, either, but raucous guffaws. This same mother also once grabbed a can of whipped cream and began spraying it at her son instead of yelling at him.

When trying to express to our children the inapropriateness of their actions or the consequence hence forth.. THIS !?!? is the type of advice they are giving out ????

The madder you get, the lower your voice gets until you're whispering. Your child will have to listen in order to actually hear what you're saying.

The point of screaming is to catch the childs attention.. if children are fighting argueing .. whathaveyou, ignore you... How will whispering your displeasure catch their attention ?

And people claim the slippery slope of political correctness is an obsurd argument

Screaming is a bit discomforting. And it doesn't work. Trust me.

The best way to let a child know she's done something wrong is to make the point that undesirable acts can often have undesirable results.

Example: If you can't get your child to clean up her room, remove every toy she's left on the floor until there's precious little left to play with. Just be sure your child is old enough to understand the connection between her action and the punishment.

i dont know if its psychologically correct or not but this is one of the most powerful techniques you can use with a small child.

this is why god gave us mcdonalds toys. your child loves them, you hate the stupid things.

your child refuses to pick up toys, you just start with the stupid cheap mcdonalds toys and THROW THEM IN THE TRASH. never to be taken out again.

for most kids, you have just become the most dangerous person in the world. someone to be taken as seriously as if you had your finger on the nuclear button.

if your kid doesnt care, you have given your child too many toys and you need to take 95% of them to the goodwill.

Screaming is a bit discomforting. And it doesn't work. Trust me.

so inresponse to misbehavior we should sooner burts out in laughter or make a joke .. maybe send our child outside?!?! (providing nice weather of course) then yell or strike the child.... given this enviornment of adivce we are getting from the "professionals" and given the reality of the state of our youth today.. isn't it rather clear these methods are ineffective

Personally i grew up with yelling and spanking and im 22... These studies and suggestions are saying basically i grew up in an unhealthy enviornment and should be screwed up. But quite frankly im more "normal" then most kids today. I never mis spoke to authority figures or disrespected them... I certianly didn't go around cursing out everyone in sight or violently attack those I had problems with (just beacuse i was spanked at home). Am i really the exception to these rules ? because many of my friends grew up in similar house holds and all are quite similar to me (speaking in terms of social edicate).

I support the strap. It's effective. It's cruel, but it works and in an age of increasing insolence among children and teens, we need something that works. I volunteered at my elementary schools a while back, the kids payed little to no attention to the teacher, even in grade 6. The younger grades were running around screaming in the library and even with a harsh word, would simply continue. If on the other hand the librarian could give them a good lashing, they'd shut up and pay attention.

I blame the ADD pandemic on the parents, who are bogged down in society's demands for ethical treatment no matter what the situation. They can't keep their kid under control, because yelling at them makes them seem like terrible parents and spanking is viewed as a criminal offense. The only way parents can now control their kids is through drugs, it's disgusting. It's the same problems for teachers, very few kids feel threatened by a drop in marks, and detentions are seen as a casual waste of time.

If from an early age they learn to associate disobediance with pain, they won't be rebellious until well into their teens.

However in the example given to teach the child consequence isolating the child or removing their toys is the punishment.. how is it different the spanking.. if followed by a little chat both produce the same effect.. only spanking is more memorable while the child after getting his/her toys back will mostlikely forget what they've learned far faster.

Showing children a connection between their wrongdoing and the consequences is a great technique to use. I remember when I was a kid, my mum made me clean my pants myself if I crapped them. Believe me, that was a much more effective punishment than spanking.

Showing children a connection between their wrongdoing and the consequences is a great technique to use. I remember when I was a kid, my mum made me clean my pants myself if I crapped them. Believe me, that was a much more effective punishment than spanking.

well something like that isn't nessesarly a time in which spanking would be appropriate. but if the child is verbally abusive, or excessivly disprespectful even violent.. spanking is more then warented as far as i see it. And the most effective technique. This is not to say it should be done out of anger and if followed by a "little talk" then you get the same connetion... between wrongdoing and consequence!

well something like that isn't nessesarly a time in which spanking would be appropriate. but if the child is verbally abusive, or excessivly disprespectful even violent.. spanking is more then warented as far as i see it. And the most effective technique. This is not to say it should be done out of anger and if followed by a "little talk" then you get the same connetion... between wrongdoing and consequence!

In my opinion, it's better just to have a "little talk". If you make it clear that you're displeased with your kid without getting angry, he/she will get the point.

In my opinion, it's better just to have a "little talk". If you make it clear that you're displeased with your kid without getting angry, he/she will get the point.

will they get the point.. it seems to me a little naive to think this way. Are children so obediant a simple talk will set them straight ? Not even 50 years ago when social edicate was at its height did we see these results... just the talk does not connect the act with consequences... Why shouldn't the child light matches in the basement or fight with their sister or brother.. whats gonna happen... u gonna get talked to :eek:

I would agree that both screaming and spanking are not the most effective means of disciplining children.

Electroshock therapy is where its at.

With the whole messy room thing, I never saw the damn point, and I STILL don't. If the kid is doing nothing wrong but being highly disorganized (still making decent grades, behaving well otherwise) then there is no reason to punish him or her. I got the shit beaten out of me for having my room disorganized (mostly because my mother had, and still appears to have, this obsession with invading people's privacy) , and all it ever did was demotivate me. I'm still disorganized, and I really don't give a damn what other people think about it. As long as I know where everything is, it doesn't matter.

Even when I come home from college for summers and holidays, I get bitched out for having my things in places my mother doesn't want them (in my own damn room, still) because they've turned my space into a storage room.

Obsessing over a child's neatness and orderliness is flat out stupid.

In my opinion, it's better just to have a "little talk". If you make it clear that you're displeased with your kid without getting angry, he/she will get the point.

Don't tell that to my dad. He KNOWS that yelling and threatening is the BEST way to "punish" kids.

My god, I'm getting sick of this shit...

will they get the point.. it seems to me a little naive to think this way. Are children so obediant a simple talk will set them straight ? Not even 50 years ago when social edicate was at its height did we see these results... just the talk does not connect the act with consequences... Why shouldn't the child light matches in the basement or fight with their sister or brother.. whats gonna happen... u gonna get talked to :eek:


Personally, I behaved better when my father simply looked and me and said "Don't do that because..." than when my mother yelled at me or smacked the living shit out of me. I responded to reason rather than abuse.

will they get the point.. it seems to me a little naive to think this way. Are children so obediant a simple talk will set them straight ? Not even 50 years ago when social edicate was at its height did we see these results... just the talk does not connect the act with consequences... Why shouldn't the child light matches in the basement or fight with their sister or brother.. whats gonna happen... u gonna get talked to :eek:

I think you have to look at the individual child. I got *one* spanking and *one* smack in my entire life. For the most part, sitting down and talking to me was all that was needed.

My brother, on the other hand, well - nothing worked. When he was younger, spanking seemed to do the job. When he was in therapy and told my mom "My therapist says you can't spank me," she spanked him and moved to a new therapist. However, as he got older, even that didn't work.

These are two extremes (and they both happened to my poor mother) hehe. Anyways, most kids fall somewhere in between.

With the whole messy room thing, I never saw the damn point, and I STILL don't. If the kid is doing nothing wrong but being highly disorganized (still making decent grades, behaving well otherwise) then there is no reason to punish him or her. I got the shit beaten out of me for having my room disorganized (mostly because my mother had, and still appears to have, this obsession with invading people's privacy) , and all it ever did was demotivate me. I'm still disorganized, and I really don't give a damn what other people think about it. As long as I know where everything is, it doesn't matter.

Even when I come home from college for summers and holidays, I get bitched out for having my things in places my mother doesn't want them (in my own damn room, still) because they've turned my space into a storage room.

Obsessing over a child's neatness and orderliness is flat out stupid.

RIGHT ON! What the fuck is it with parents and obsessive cleanliness? So what if a kid doesn't have his/her room as clean as the day the house was bought. That's the way things are.

I support the strap. It's effective. It's cruel, but it works and in an age of increasing insolence among children and teens, we need something that works. I volunteered at my elementary schools a while back, the kids payed little to no attention to the teacher, even in grade 6. The younger grades were running around screaming in the library and even with a harsh word, would simply continue. If on the other hand the librarian could give them a good lashing, they'd shut up and pay attention.

I blame the ADD pandemic on the parents, who are bogged down in society's demands for ethical treatment no matter what the situation. They can't keep their kid under control, because yelling at them makes them seem like terrible parents and spanking is viewed as a criminal offense. The only way parents can now control their kids is through drugs, it's disgusting. It's the same problems for teachers, very few kids feel threatened by a drop in marks, and detentions are seen as a casual waste of time.

If from an early age they learn to associate disobediance with pain, they won't be rebellious until well into their teens.

That is either complete and utter bullshit, or I was a damn weird kid. I didn't behave because I feared pain. I behaved because it was the logical thing to do. If I was quiet in the library, everyone else could concentrate just as well as I could. If I paid attention in class, my grades would reflect it. Detention was definitely a waste of time, simply because it was handed out over administrative bullshit. For example, I was assigned detention in highschool because I failed to return a signed form near the beginning of the school year. My mother had simply refused to sign it because she disagreed with the terms. It is purely illogical to punish a teenager because of circumstances she cannot control.

will they get the point.. it seems to me a little naive to think this way. Are children so obediant a simple talk will set them straight ? Not even 50 years ago when social edicate was at its height did we see these results... just the talk does not connect the act with consequences...

In my experience, talking is the most effective way of disciplining kids. If spanking works for you, spank away.


Why shouldn't the child light matches in the basement or fight with their sister or brother.. whats gonna happen... u gonna get talked to :eek:

Yes, u gonna get talked to. Getting a tongue lashing from a parent is actually a worrying prospect for kids, believe it or not. As much of a deterrent as spanking.

EDIT: Argh, this doesn't quite sound like I meant it to.

Okay, I'll elaborate a bit. It's important how you talk to a kid when they've done something wrong. Just mildly telling them that they've been naughty isn't good, neither is yelling at them.

You think yelling's bad? Oh, my dad yells the shit out of me for pretty much no reason. He also threatens me, which is just wonderful.

That is either complete and utter bullshit, or I was a damn weird kid. I didn't behave because I feared pain. I behaved because it was the logical thing to do. If I was quiet in the library, everyone else could concentrate just as well as I could. If I paid attention in class, my grades would reflect it. Detention was definitely a waste of time, simply because it was handed out over administrative bullshit. For example, I was assigned detention in highschool because I failed to return a signed form near the beginning of the school year. My mother had simply refused to sign it because she disagreed with the terms. It is purely illogical to punish a teenager because of circumstances she cannot control.

Quite frankly I would argue you probably were an abnormal kid... and we are talking about using spanking and yelling for children at a fairly young age... 3-8 or so.. after that it becomes fairly impractical. Most kids these days h ave few if any respect or use of logic ... When i was growing up kids were activly TRYING to get ISS or In-school-suspension (if the term didn't in of itself imply idiocy) Kids just saw it as a way to get out of class and hang out with friends. And some how.. as a kid logic wasn't that apealing when i wanted to run in church up and down the isles.. or talking in the library to my firend.. I was more interested in having fun then other people being able to concentrate.. this of course was when I was young and is clearly reflective of most children of this age. However today these circumstances are dramatically worse as children now activily disrespect authority figures when told what is right and wrong

Quite frankly I would argue you probably were an abnormal kid... and we are talking about using spanking and yelling for children at a fairly young age... 3-8 or so.. after that it becomes fairly impractical. Most kids these days h ave few if any respect or use of logic ... When i was growing up kids were activly TRYING to get ISS or In-school-suspension (if the term didn't in of itself imply idiocy) Kids just saw it as a way to get out of class and hang out with friends. And some how.. as a kid logic wasn't that apealing when i wanted to run in church up and down the isles.. or talking in the library to my firend.. I was more interested in having fun then other people being able to concentrate.. this of course was when I was young and is clearly reflective of most children of this age. However today these circumstances are dramatically worse as children now activily disrespect authority figures when told what is right and wrong


I was referring to essentially the same age group. However, my mother continues to exhibit such behavior (threats of spanking, and trying to smack the living shit out of me) to this day. [I am 19 years old, and therefore can press charges against her if this behavior is documented.] I agree that children under the age of 10 are not exactly the most respectful beings, but that can partially (I said PARTIALLY) be blamed on conflicting signals from society. Children are pressured to fit in, yet are encouraged to be unique. They see the old ways being proven wrong, but they also see them still being used. Society itself needs to straighten out as well. (No, that is most definitely not a reference to sexual orientation.) It's not just children who are screwing up.

There is a difference between spanking a kid out of punishment, and beating them because your angry. It's a distinction that people don't seem to realize. I got spanked for lots of things when I was a kid, with a wooden spoon no less (actually more than one wooden spoon, as they always had to buy more since they would break). But it was never out of anger, and only when warranted. Plus, my parents have always talked to me calmly and logically about things. And I've turned out fine, in fact I have a great relationship with my parents. Which seems to puzzle a lot of my friends. I'm not violent, or agressive. I don't shout at people.

Under no circumstances should a parent beat their kids. Meaning raise a hand in anger. But spanking does not need to be in anger. It can be a usefull tool if used properly, but like all things can be abused.


And the point of cleanliness is that it's just more healthy, and more efficient. Spazzes.

i know most of y'all dont have kids but really

its not about finding the utterly worst way to raise children and as long as you are better than THAT its fine

its about finding the best way to deal with your kids. the way that will allow them to grow into good adults.

so good parents see what is working and what isnt, drop the stuff that isnt working and find new techniques that DO work. when you have been raised in a hitting yelling household you need someone to tell you that there are other ways of doing it. ways that dont beat a child into submission.

ways that dont beat a child into submission.

And, ways that don't frighten the shit out of your child when you so much as open your mouth.

And, ways that don't frighten the shit out of your child when you so much as open your mouth.
exactly, you really dont want your child to flinch every time your raise your voice or your hand

exactly, you really dont want your child to flinch every time your raise your voice or your hand

I shudder pretty much every time my dad calls my name. I'm thinking, "oh fuck, what is it this time...".

I mean, even when he's just calling me in the living room to tell me something good, he yells my name as if I've done some horrible deed.

If one yells at one's child when one is angry, the child will simply learn not to hear the yelling. This could have terrible consequences if one is yelling at one's child that he/she is about to be hit by a truck while playing in the street. The reason that more parents are refraining from yelling at thier children is because treating children with repect works. Domineering adults get absolutely no respect from teenagers except for (maybe) fear. This is not a healthy relationship. After the child moves out of the parents house he/she will then loose even the unhealthy fearful respect for his/her parents. This could result in a total loss of one's relationship with one's child.