NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?

To partake in the giving/getting of gifts and enjoy other such merry-making without all the bullshit that comes attached to a holiday.

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?

Because i've been given a holiday by the government, so I'll have my presents, booze and good food thanks. Though i'm more agnostic than outright atheist.

(By the way, a lot of atheists do not celebrate Christmas, etc. That's a pretty unfair generalisation.)

But still why do countless atheist children wake up easter morning looking forward to getting eggs when they do not know of the meaning behind it?

But still why do countless atheist children wake up easter morning looking forward to getting eggs when they do not know of the meaning behind it?

Because all of the other kids are getting lots of chocolate, and it would be cruel to leave them out of it.

(What do chocolate Easter eggs have to do with Jesus' resurrection, anyway?)

But still why do countless atheist children wake up easter morning looking forward to getting eggs when they do not know of the meaning behind it?
I am quite sure that they know the meaning. They just don't care about it.

But still why do countless atheist children wake up easter morning looking forward to getting eggs when they do not know of the meaning behind it?
There isn't a meaning behind it for them.
They just want to celebrate and get presents. Since nobody's going to set up atheist holidays,simply use a preexisting one.

Besides, the Christians swiped Easter and many of their other holidays from the pagans anyway. The same question about holidays could be asked of them.

Because they are fun.

Question back at you, why, as a christian, do you celebrate holidays that have been moved to coincide with pagan celebrations?

I don't celebrate those things. Certain holidays are days off for everyone (Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, etc etc etc.) in this country, thanks to the government. I take the day off and do whatever I want, but surely not taking part in strange religious activities.

My family has never celebrated christmas or easter or anything else along that line. And I seriously doubt they ever will.

Because all of the other kids are getting lots of chocolate, and it would be cruel to leave them out of it.

(What do chocolate Easter eggs have to do with Jesus' resurrection, anyway?)accualy it was originaly just eggs which represent new life. Since Jesus was resurrected that day it was a new life

Because all of the other kids are getting lots of chocolate, and it would be cruel to leave them out of it.

(What do chocolate Easter eggs have to do with Jesus' resurrection, anyway?)

i think the eggs symbolize the rock that was rolled in front of Jesus' tomb.

Question back at you, why, as a christian, do you celebrate holidays that have been moved to coincide with pagan celebrations?
Hee, I beat you to it!
Sort of...

accualy it was originaly just eggs which represent new life. Since Jesus was resurrected that day it was a new life

i think the eggs symbolize the rock that was rolled in front of Jesus' tomb.

So where does the Easter Bunny come into it? ;)

Because they are fun.

Question back at you, why, as a christian, do you celebrate holidays that have been moved to coincide with pagan celebrations?because they are the holidays when major parts of our beliefs took place

i think the eggs symbolize the rock that was rolled in front of Jesus' tomb.

what about the bunny who lays the eggs?

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?

Symbolic meaning? What symbolic meaning?

If there's holidays/vacations, everyone celebrates if they can. This is human nature. What, I'm going to go to work on Christmas? Yeah right!

Use your common sense, figure it out.

As others have said those who do celebrate the holidays don't really care. My friends and I like to celebrate giftmas every year. It just so happens to be on the same day as christmas. But that's just a coincidence like christmas is coincidentally similar to saturnalia *wink, wink*.

But if the government doesn't believe ethier why creat those days off just so they may have more days of nothing whats the point?

But if the government doesn't believe ethier why creat those days off just so they may have more days of nothing whats the point?

Because the Christmas and Easter spending sprees generate an increased revenues for retailers and makes the politicians big businessmen friends rich, pretty much.

But if the government doesn't believe ethier why creat those days off just so they may have more days of nothing whats the point?

Um....because people need breaks.

because they are the holidays when major parts of our beliefs took place

At least be honest about your religion here.

Yes, many Christian holidays co-opted pagan holidays.
The eggs at Easter are due to the fact that the Church co-opted a fertility celebration for the celebration of Christ's ressurrection. The eggs, instead of celebrating planting, fertility, and sex were moved to represent the gift of life, etc. The bunny stayed on, well, because the bunny is cute and cuddly and fuzzy.

I reckon that the eggs and bunny actually come from umm... "paganism".
The name 'Easter' is actually derived from the germanic goddess Eostra - and the Christian festival was moved to that date to coincide with the pagan Easter festival, or something like that. It's kinda ironic. And i reckon that - knowing this - certain Christian fundamentalists refrain from that Easter eggs stuff. Funny, huh? :D

*giggling over the thought of eggs being the true meaning of easter*

to answer your sincere question

i celebrate some "christian" holidays because they are fun, they are a cultural tradition and its a good time for extended family to get together.

i dont go to church on christmas (or any other day). i DID give my son an easter basket when he was a kid but without any religious strings attached. these days i dont really celebrate easter in any way beyond going to my sisters house for dinner. i dont DO lent or advent or ramadan or the high holy days of judaism.

so to summarize, i celebrate those religious holidays that have a strong cultural and family aspect and dont do those that are mostly just religious.

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?
Easter: bunnys laying chocolate eggs, I don't call that religious
christmas: Sainta created by coca cola company
...
I'm trough my religious holidays I celebrate.

I reckon that the eggs and bunny actually come from umm... "paganism".
The name 'Easter' is actually derived from the germanic goddess Eostra - and the Christian festival was moved to that date to coincide with the pagan Easter festival, or something like that. It's kinda ironic. And i reckon that - knowing this - certain Christian fundamentalists refrain from that Easter eggs stuff. Funny, huh? :D


Well, the celebration of Christ's resurrection was always supposed to come directly after Passover. I think this just seemed to coincide so much with the pagan holiday of Easter that it was co-opted in order to spread the message and get more pagans to convert.

Because the Christmas and Easter spending sprees generate an increased revenues for retailers and makes the politicians big businessmen friends rich, pretty much.

...and keeps a lot of people in jobs.

accualy it was originaly just eggs which represent new life.
And by boiling these eggs until life is destroyed ... then dying them celebratory colors ... and then eating them, thus removing even the potential of new life ... we're celebrating Christ's death and resurrection?"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever" (John 6:53–58). No, this is the true meaning of Easter. Ritual cannibalism. Let's celebrate correctly, shall we?

Easter: bunnys laying chocolate eggs, I don't call that religious
christmas: Sainta created by coca cola company
...
I'm trough my religious holidays I celebrate.Accualy those both objects were created by current man not relating to how they were ment to be celebrated

accualy it was originaly just eggs which represent new life. Since Jesus was resurrected that day it was a new life
actually the reason we have eggs is because of Eostre, the pagan goddess of fertility, the goddess that Easter is named after, the egg represents fertility

what about the bunny who lays the eggs?
That was the effects of any drug huffed, snorted, smoked, injected or inserted rectally. :p

And by boiling these eggs until life is destroyed ... then dying them celebratory colors ... and then eating them, thus removing even the potential of new life ... we're celebrating Christ's death and resurrection?"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever" (John 6:53?58). No, this is the true meaning of Easter. Ritual cannibalism. Let's celebrate correctly, shall we?As they were eating Jesus took a small loaf of bread and asked God's blessing on it and broke it in pieces and gave it to them and said "Eat this this is my body" Then he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God and Gave it to them and they drank from it and he said to them "this is my blood poured out for many" mark 14 22-23

Accualy those both objects were created by current man not relating to how they were ment to be celebrated
Yup, so that's the way atheïsts celebrate it. Kept the tought, changed the concept.

I'm as close to an atheist as a realistic person can be, and I still celebrate christmas, easter, and all that good stuff.

Why?

Because I wanted my candy, goddamnit.

Lay off the kids, they have their whole life ahead of them to figure out their own personal religion. In the meantime, don't make them isolated just because they don't feel the meaning behind the holiday in their soul.

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?

First things first -- your attempt to soft-pedal an inflammatory question is really childish. You DID mean to generate a little conflict. If you hadn't meant that, these and many more detailed answers were and are available online or in any number of good reference tomes. So at best you're disingenuous, at worst, you're lazy.

Coincidentally, "lazy" is also part of the answer to your question with regard to my own POV. Early Christians saw a great opportunity to co-opt and usurp pagan holidays that happened around the solstices and the equinoxes (equinoxi?). I don't know about you, but celebrating the beginning of days finally starting to grow longer (winter solstice), fertility/growth/reproduction (vernal equinox), SUMMERTIME! (summer solstice), and the harvest (autumnal equinox) seems like a pretty good idea. Reminders of the cycle of life and death that happen regularly every year are pretty reassuring, at least to me.

So winter solstice becomes Christmas despite Christ having been born earlier than that time of year. The (indoor) Christmas tree is a pagan symbol of reassurance that life will renew itself despite the freezing weather and dead vegetation all around (it also helped the cramped and hygienically unenlightened quarters of those stuck inside for a whole season because of the weather to smell better...). So a fair question might be why Christians use trees on Christmas at all since they've got nothing to do with Christ. The answer would be as a symbol of everlasting life that Christ represents. Neat, huh?

Easter, as has been said here already, is a proselytizing overlap of the pagan celebration honoring Eostre, who was, I think, a Celtic fertility goddess (help me out here, UKers or pagans). The eggs are symbolic of the renewal of life, and so are the rabbits -- remember how they're renowned for their capacity to breed? Well, that was a fitting symbol for the renewal and birthing going on all around them and even in their own homes. I'm pretty sure the addition of chocolate has to do with a combination of the end of lent and the ability to indulge again plus the commercial aspect that seems to add candy to damn near every holiday (flowers, too).

The summer solstice hasn't really been co-opted by Christianity. I don't have the liturgical calendar memorized, but isn't that Michaelmas or something similarly obscure? I think even the early Christians knew that they wouldn't be able to get people to sit still for a religious lesson during the one time of year when there was comparatively little work to do and thus reason to party. Conjecture, but I'm sticking to it. Someone more scholarly can set me straight here.

The autumnal equinox, coming as it does in mid-late September, even misses the stert of the school year for most folks, so again, I think early Christians recognized that folks were too busy harvesting their brains out to try and convert this particular holiday. Instead, they waited for the end of harvest to convert the Day of the Dead to All Saints'/Souls' Day. It seemed natural for the pagans to mourn the passing of the land into the long sleep of winter, and it seemed like a good time to remember the dead as well. They reminded themselves that death was a natural part of life by scaring the living crap out of one another and carving up the remains of their gourd/pumpkin harvest to resemble spectres, vampires, wights, wraiths, ghosts, shadows, skeletons, zombies, ghouls, ghasts, and everything else on the UNDEAD table in the D&D Monster Manual (what a give-away!).

Laziness on my part means that while I certainly agree that the seasons deserve commemoration and that we deserve a holiday to remind ourselves of our mortality and that there's more to life than work, I don't bother to brazenly obscure the religious holidays that have obscured other holidays before them. Why continue that cycle? I go along to get along.

I hope that answers your question.

Magister Jubal
PS: Sorry for how long this is. I felt a need.

is fiss ignoring what i said?

is fiss ignoring what i said?
fiss? You mean Fris?

yeah check my new thread ill b back on l8er and this will test me as well as you

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?
Because we like being with our friends and family as the next person.
As is I do not "CELEBRATE" the holiday rather use the time off that it provides me there is a difference (same way I use 4th of july break or faculty day off's at school
I may not be a faculty but I use the time off to get things done and visit with people)

Its not about the holiday it is about the break from school (wouldent give a damn what they called it as long as I got my month off)

As they were eating Jesus took a small loaf of bread and asked God's blessing on it and broke it in pieces and gave it to them and said "Eat this this is my body" Then he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God and Gave it to them and they drank from it and he said to them "this is my blood poured out for many" mark 14 22-23
Which relates to eggs how :p

A) The bunny does not lay the eggs, it picks them, paints them, then delivers.
What animal is famous for spending it's time mating and multiplying?

B) Go into any modern secular junior/lower/primary school.
Question: What does Easter mean?
Answer: Bunny gives eggs!
Chocolate!
Jesus died and came back with chocolate.
Bunnys drew crosses on buns.
Or other such near misses.

C) The Government might be 'secular' but the State isn't. You'd be hard put to find one that does not have a state religion, upon which the holidays are based.

D) Many are unique to the country. "Boxing Day" is a very British thing.

E) Is there anything wrong with a family holiday? Holidays like Christmas have either a religious meaning, or a family meaning, like New Year. How many Non-Christian countries celebrate Christmas these days? Guy Fawkes night, people traditionally burned the Pope...some towns still do, most have forgotten that. Which is why many holidays have lost meaning for a lot of people other than a break.

Oh, btw. Many true Christians wouldn't dream of celebrating Halloween. I know one girl objected to the school musical "Dracula Spectacula" because we'd be playing zombies and vampires.

Well, the celebration of Christ's resurrection was always supposed to come directly after Passover. I think this just seemed to coincide so much with the pagan holiday of Easter that it was co-opted in order to spread the message and get more pagans to convert.

Yep. When Christianity became the officially religion of the Roman Empire, the people had previously been pagans. It was easier to incorporate the holidays than to change the people's customs entirely.

The eggs and bunnies come from this. So does mistletoe, wreaths and the word "Yule" at Christmas.

As a general rule, I don't participate in religious holidays. Christmas, to me, is a day of chinese food and movies. Gifts are more a birthday thing in my house. It helps to have an SO who is also an atheist.

I was raised religious, so on some level I do have sentimentality for christmas/easter traditions, but I stay away from them for the most part. If my family wants to get together around holiday time, I'll do it and bring gifts if it's appropriate, but I don't find there's any reason to initiate such things. I don't need such an excuse to give people presents/have a special meal/see my family and friends. I do those things all the time anyway, when I can afford it.

is fiss ignoring what i said?
fiss? You mean Fris?
No, I work for a living, and surf when I get small breaks. You are not my Alpha and Omega, my beginning and end. You'll hear back from me when you do.
As they were eating Jesus took a small loaf of bread and asked God's blessing on it and broke it in pieces and gave it to them and said "Eat this this is my body" Then he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God and Gave it to them and they drank from it and he said to them "this is my blood poured out for many" mark 14 22-23
I quoted John, and you quoted Mark. Both of them describe the ritual cannibalism inherent in the Communion. Was there some other point you wished to make, or were you just reinforcing mine?

My family is so diverse that we wouldn't be able to celebrate anything together if we did not keep an open mind. We celebrate everything! In fact, I think the only exception to this rule is my cousin Russell's fixation with satanic crap. Although, we do celebrate when he shows up clean and sober to family functions and holidays.

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?

Have you considered the fact that some faiths (e.g., Christianity) have appropriated the holidays of other faiths (e.g., Pagans) and simply renamed them and assigned them new meanings (Christmas - a.k.a. Yule, and Easter - a.k.a. Ostara, being prime examples of this)? So why do Christians celebrate the holidays of Pagan religions if they do not believe in their symbolic meaning?

No, I work for a living, and surf when I get small breaks. You are not my Alpha and Omega, my beginning and end. You'll hear back from me when you do.

I quoted John, and you quoted Mark. Both of them describe the ritual cannibalism inherent in the Communion. Was there some other point you wished to make, or were you just reinforcing mine?accualy when he said that i was pointing out he was using sumbols the bread is his body and the wine his blood so when he says eat my body he means the bread

Why do I celebrate holidays as an atheist?

Hey, my high school gave me the day off. Why shouldn't I celebrate? Which reminds me, we have Monday off for Passover! *dances around celebrating*

I celebrate it because of my family and besides - les cadeaux, money, and candy!

I celebrate it because of my family and besides - les cadeaux, money, and candy!Those are all good reasons, especially the last three. (BTW, is the candy chocolate?)

For some reason, the "Fiddler on the Roof" song, "Tradition" comes to mind...
TRA-DEE-SHUN!

First things first -- your attempt to soft-pedal an inflammatory question is really childish. You DID mean to generate a little conflict. If you hadn't meant that, these and many more detailed answers were and are available online or in any number of good reference tomes. So at best you're disingenuous, at worst, you're lazy.

Coincidentally, "lazy" is also part of the answer to your question with regard to my own POV. Early Christians saw a great opportunity to co-opt and usurp pagan holidays that happened around the solstices and the equinoxes (equinoxi?). I don't know about you, but celebrating the beginning of days finally starting to grow longer (winter solstice), fertility/growth/reproduction (vernal equinox), SUMMERTIME! (summer solstice), and the harvest (autumnal equinox) seems like a pretty good idea. Reminders of the cycle of life and death that happen regularly every year are pretty reassuring, at least to me.

So winter solstice becomes Christmas despite Christ having been born earlier than that time of year. The (indoor) Christmas tree is a pagan symbol of reassurance that life will renew itself despite the freezing weather and dead vegetation all around (it also helped the cramped and hygienically unenlightened quarters of those stuck inside for a whole season because of the weather to smell better...). So a fair question might be why Christians use trees on Christmas at all since they've got nothing to do with Christ. The answer would be as a symbol of everlasting life that Christ represents. Neat, huh?

Easter, as has been said here already, is a proselytizing overlap of the pagan celebration honoring Eostre, who was, I think, a Celtic fertility goddess (help me out here, UKers or pagans). The eggs are symbolic of the renewal of life, and so are the rabbits -- remember how they're renowned for their capacity to breed? Well, that was a fitting symbol for the renewal and birthing going on all around them and even in their own homes. I'm pretty sure the addition of chocolate has to do with a combination of the end of lent and the ability to indulge again plus the commercial aspect that seems to add candy to damn near every holiday (flowers, too).

The summer solstice hasn't really been co-opted by Christianity. I don't have the liturgical calendar memorized, but isn't that Michaelmas or something similarly obscure? I think even the early Christians knew that they wouldn't be able to get people to sit still for a religious lesson during the one time of year when there was comparatively little work to do and thus reason to party. Conjecture, but I'm sticking to it. Someone more scholarly can set me straight here.

The autumnal equinox, coming as it does in mid-late September, even misses the stert of the school year for most folks, so again, I think early Christians recognized that folks were too busy harvesting their brains out to try and convert this particular holiday. Instead, they waited for the end of harvest to convert the Day of the Dead to All Saints'/Souls' Day. It seemed natural for the pagans to mourn the passing of the land into the long sleep of winter, and it seemed like a good time to remember the dead as well. They reminded themselves that death was a natural part of life by scaring the living crap out of one another and carving up the remains of their gourd/pumpkin harvest to resemble spectres, vampires, wights, wraiths, ghosts, shadows, skeletons, zombies, ghouls, ghasts, and everything else on the UNDEAD table in the D&D Monster Manual (what a give-away!).

Laziness on my part means that while I certainly agree that the seasons deserve commemoration and that we deserve a holiday to remind ourselves of our mortality and that there's more to life than work, I don't bother to brazenly obscure the religious holidays that have obscured other holidays before them. Why continue that cycle? I go along to get along.

I hope that answers your question.

Magister Jubal
PS: Sorry for how long this is. I felt a need.

HERE, HERE.

The days off silly.

The best time I had for holidays was when I was stationed in Korea. Since we had Koreans assigned to our unit we got ours and their holidays off. Why fight a good thing? I'm sure the same applies to the religious and atheists.

In fact I don't know a single Jehovah's Witness that still goes to work on Christmas if they didn't have to. In fact, I know a few who will take their birthday off if its provided as a day off by the company.

This stuff has basically been said before, but let me say it for myself.

1. Holidays= presents ( hell, who doesnt like presents? i mean come on...)
2. Holidays= hanging out with friends/ family ( thats also good)
3. Holidays= no school/work ( my favorite part)

:D

But personally, I do not beleive a single word about Jesus' resurrection or stuff like that. It means nothing to me, holidays are just a way for people to have a good time. Sure, originally they were ment to celebrate great moments in history, but people have the freedom to do whatever they want, and government given days off are always a good day to get drunk or whatever.

and a final question.... Why do you celebrate christmas in December? It is beleived that he was born sometime else in the year (Spring or Summer. I forget, not that i was paying attention when i was being told about it). So right there should void any religion beleif for celebrating christmas in december.

I celecbrate them because I like buying stuff for myself at Christmas, and the atmosphere of the holidays is very relaxing and positive. I'd make the estimate that at least 40 to 50 percent of people celebrate Christmas and Easter without any religious context.

To partake in the giving/getting of gifts and enjoy other such merry-making without all the bullshit that comes attached to a holiday.

is ur sig what i thnk it is ?.. .i think i hafta steal it...

accualy when he said that i was pointing out he was using sumbols the bread is his body and the wine his blood so when he says eat my body he means the bread
No its not bread (if you are catholic) when blessed it IS the body not bread (in any way shape or form) ... catholocism is silly :p

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?

As a Christian, why do you celebrate heathen rituals? Christmas is from the old norse religion (even the name and the date...And of course the tree). Easter is originally the celebration of a fertility goddess (hence the eggs)...etc etc etc.

Who cares? It's fun.

accualy when he said that i was pointing out he was using sumbols the bread is his body and the wine his blood so when he says eat my body he means the bread
I'm not going to hijack this thread any further, but this is worthy of its own thread. If you believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then who are you to interpret what *Jesus* meant? It reads pretty clearly as ritualistic cannibalism (representative, not literal), so your symbolism argument is just something biblical scholars decided upon to make him look less ... bloodthirsty. Add in the Catholic version of the miracle of transubstantiation, and it goes from representative right back to literal. Either way ...

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?
i celebrate holidays with friends and family. i share their culture and their traditions because it is a way of being close to them, and because it makes them happy (and i like making my friends and family happy). in your typical year i usually participate in holiday celebrations for at least three religions, and often more like 6, and i feel this also gives me more insight into different religious and cultural traditions.

plus, it's usually a great deal of fun, and there's usually very good food involved. i don't need to worship their God to appreciate closeness, bonding, fun, and food :).

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?
Honestly dude, please be quiet. You're not proving anything, except the stereotype of Christians as general doofusses. :rolleyes:

Ok im not aiming to start a war but merely ask a sincere question. As atheists why do you celebrate the holidays of other religions if you do not believe in there symbolic meaning?
Atheists can have symbols, too.