NationStates Jolt Archive

For those who don't know, in the final British parliamentary session before the dissolution in preparation for the election, the three parties cut a deal to drop the ID card bill, weaken the Gambling Bill, and thus concentrate on pushing through the Drugs Bill. In clause 21, the law regarding psilocybe fungi is clarified. Previously, preparation or drying of 'magic mushroom's was illegal, as they contained the Class A drug psilocybin, but supply, possession and consumption of fresh, unprepared mushrooms was legal. Now they are to made fully illegal, along with any other product containing psilocybin, such as grow kits and 'Philosopher's Stones' truffles. The magic mushroom community campaigned against this and formed a petition, but their views were ignored.

Having a debate on this would be rather pointless, I feel, as it has now been passed, and although yet to be set in legal stone, is shortly to be so. So I'm really just enquiring in a more general sense as to what NSers' views on 'shrooms are: I have no idea of their legality in the US, but I suspect their use must be widespread, particularly in the Southern States.

If you want to use them, be my guest, it's not hurting me none.

For those who don't know, in the final British parliamentary session before the dissolution in preparation for the election, the three parties cut a deal to drop the ID card bill, weaken the Gambling Bill, and thus concentrate on pushing through the Drugs Bill. In clause 21, the law regarding psilocybe fungi is clarified. Previously, preparation or drying of 'magic mushroom's was illegal, as they contained the Class A drug psilocybin, but supply, possession and consumption of fresh, unprepared mushrooms was legal. Now they are to made fully illegal, along with any other product containing psilocybin, such as grow kits and 'Philosopher's Stones' truffles. The magic mushroom community campaigned against this and formed a petition, but their views were ignored.

Having a debate on this would be rather pointless, I feel, as it has now been passed, and although yet to be set in legal stone, is shortly to be so. So I'm really just enquiring in a more general sense as to what NSers' views on 'shrooms are: I have no idea of their legality in the US, but I suspect their use must be widespread, particularly in the Southern States.

Possession, sale, etc. of psilocybin is illegal in the United States.

Psilocybin is a Schedule I drug.

Right. But I would assume there are still places where they could be grown and, more importantly, a border with Mexico. I personally feel that it is atrocious to ban a non-toxic, non-harmful substance that many would view as a religious sacrament.

Right. But I would assume there are still places where they could be grown and, more importantly, a border with Mexico. I personally feel that it is atrocious to ban a non-toxic, non-harmful substance that many would view as a religious sacrament.

As with most drugs in the US, psilocybin is illegal but that does not mean it is neither grown nor used here.

I'm not sure it should be illegal, but you cannot seriously contend that psilocybin is completely non-toxic and non-harmful.

Unlike peyote, there are few in the US who have serious, deeply held religious beliefs in which psilocybin is a sacrament. Being a user and saying you find its use religious is not quite the same thing.

No, of cousre not, but I think peyote is a good example of how, even if there is a singular lack of organization to their beliefs, many have encountered a spiritual experience through its use. Furthermore, psilocybin isn't toxic. Harm encountered through its use can stem from irresponsibile dosage (which legalisation could help regulate) or taking bad ones (again, which legalisation would control) but the lasting effects on the brain are minimal and have not been equated to any serious risk: for example, ego-death from LSD has not been documented in the same way with regard to psilocybin.

I was tempted to vote option the fifth for the sheer hell of it, but I didn't.

No, of cousre not, but I think peyote is a good example of how, even if there is a singular lack of organization to their beliefs, many have encountered a spiritual experience through its use. Furthermore, psilocybin isn't toxic. Harm encountered through its use can stem from irresponsibile dosage (which legalisation could help regulate) or taking bad ones (again, which legalisation would control) but the lasting effects on the brain are minimal and have not been equated to any serious risk: for example, ego-death from LSD has not been documented in the same way with regard to psilocybin.

Actually, peyote is a good example of people -- some Native Americans -- who have deeply held religious beliefs to which the use of a drug is an important collateral. Much like Catholics and wine. World of difference from saying you can have a "spiritual experience" through use.

Although psylocybin has relatively low toxicity, it is far from harmless. If you have researched the issue from medical sources, you know this.

Drugs need not be harmless to be legal. Aspirin isn't harmless. Caffiene (to which I am heavy addicted) isn't harmless. But being less than honest about side effects and dangers of a drug is both unhelpful and dangerous itself.

I was tempted to vote option the fifth for the sheer hell of it, but I didn't.

So was I :p

[I put the 5th option in for symmetry, and there might be someone who gets a kick out of the illegality or recognises that they are doing something wrong: I don't know.]

But why limit the peyote to Native Americans when people like Leary and Huxley brought into the open view of so many other people the possibilities of a genuine psychic interpretation to the induced visions. For a very long time, writers have been analysing the effects of mescaline, opium, marijuana and, yes, psilocybin, and many have concluded that the effects cannot merely explained as a chemical high.

Research has indicated a potency of around .6%, and thus it would take pounds to overdose. Links to liver and brain damage have been widely discredited. The science you so prize?

Acute psychological and physiological effects of psilocybin in healthy humans: a double-blind, placebo-controlled dose-effect study Felix Hasler , Ulrike Grimberg, Marco A. Benz, Theo Huber and Franz X. Vollenweider

(1) Heffter Research Center, Psychiatric University Hospital Zürich, Lenggstrasse 31, 8029 Zürich, Switzerland Psychopharmacology DOI: 10.1007/s00213-003-1640-6

Abstract
Rationale Serotonin (5-Hydroxytryptamine, 5-HT) receptors play an important role in perception, affect regulation and attention. Pharmacological challenge with the 5-HT2A agonist psilocybin (PY) is useful in studying the neurobiological basis of cognition and consciousness. Objective Investigation of dose-dependent effects of PY on psycho(patho)logical and physiological parameters. Methods Eight subjects received placebo (PL), and 45 (very low dose, VLD), 115 (low dose, LD), 215 (medium dose, MD), and 315 (high dose, HD) g/kg body weight PY. The Altered States of Consciousness Rating Scale (5D-ASC), the Frankfurt Attention Inventory (FAIR), and the Adjective Mood Rating Scale (AMRS) were used to assess the effects of PY on psycho(patho)logical core dimensions, attention, and mood. A 24-h electrocardiogram (EKG) was recorded and blood pressure was measured. Plasma concentrations of thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH), prolactin (PRL), cortisol (CORT), adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH), and standard clinical chemical parameters were determined. Results PY dose dependently increased scores of all 5D-ASC core dimensions. Only one subject reacted with transient anxiety to HD PY. Compared with PL, MD and HD PY led to a 50% reduction of performance in the FAIR test. General inactivation, emotional excitability, and dreaminess were the only domains of the AMRS showing increased scores following MD and HD PY. The mean arterial blood pressure (MAP) was moderately elevated only 60 min following administration of HD PY. Neither EKG nor body temperature was affected by any dose of PY. TSH, ACTH, and CORT plasma levels were elevated during peak effects of HD PY, whereas PRL plasma levels were increased following MD and HD PY. Conclusion PY affects core dimensions of altered states of consciousness and physiological parameters in a dose-dependent manner. Our study provided no cause for concern that PY is hazardous with respect to somatic health.

There's more.

Now they are to made fully illegal, along with any other product containing psilocybin, such as grow kits and 'Philosopher's Stones' truffles.

I don't think that such a law could be enforced effectively.

But, without magic mushrooms, how are the Mario Brothers suppoed to fight the evil King Koopa?

I'm telling ya, this is a reptilian conspiracy!

--The Jovial States of Cogitation
"Laugh about it for a moment."
NationStates Self-Proclaimed Court Jester

...

Okay, cheesy references to video games aside, it would be helpful if you provided a link to the legislation in question (or an article about the legislation in question). Links to the health effects of psilocybin would also be helpful; a quick search by myself turns up the following:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/print/ency/article/001945.htm
HALLUCINOGENS

In addition to PCP, other commonly abused hallucinogens include LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide), psilocybin (mushrooms, "shrooms"), and peyote (a cactus plant containing the active ingredient mescaline).

The use of naturally occurring hallucinogens, specifically for religious rites, has been documented for centuries. Mushrooms containing psilocybin were used by the native people of Mexico and peyote use was common among southwestern Native Americans.

In contrast, LSD is a synthetic substance, first developed by a legitimate pharmaceutical company in 1938. Today, most hallucinogens are used experimentally rather than on a regular basis, with most users reporting only single or several uses per year.

LSD is an extremely potent hallucinogen with only minuscule doses required to produce effects. Compared to LSD, psilocybin is 100-200 times less potent and mescaline (peyote) is about 4,000 times less potent.

Hallucinogens are commonly associated with extreme anxiety and absence of contact with reality at the height of the drug experience ("bad trips"). As a "flashback," these experiences can recur without further ingesting the drug. Such experiences typically occur during times of increased stress and tend to decrease in frequency and intensity if the individual stops taking the drugs.

A quick search didn't turn up anything more detailed on "psilocybin", specifically, but it's probably out there, somewhere.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder and Delegate of The Realm of Ambrosia

It would be good if I could post a link.
It would also be good if I could find a link...

For the time being, the usual places (mmf, mmc, shroomery, etc.) are good sources of information. I'm sorry I can't find a link to it, but hopefully that won't totallt proclude the possibility of debate.

The parliamentary debate: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200405/cmstand/f/st050203/pm/50203s02.htm.

No, mushrooms should be legal.

Slightly disappointingly, the 'haven't tried but should be legal' sector seems to be the dominant one. Oh well, it's what I would have expected. I think we can thus safely conclude that Tony Blair is a twat.

Don't get me wrong, I love 'shrums...love 'em. Wish I had some right now...in fact, this thread bothers me because it reminds me about 'shrums when I can't have any because I don't have a day free to do them. And I'm pretty sure Steamboy or Sin City would be a blast on 'shrums. Like when I watched Fellowship of the Ring on 'shrums and felt like it was all happening to me. Love 'em.

However...the potancy of the drug, while as you noted less than LSD, is pretty severe. Just because you'd have an agency going "Seriously-only take this much or you'll end up half naked in your entry way staring at a light bulb" doesn't mean that people will. Consider this-we have an agency telling us to not take them at all and yet...

There is a part of me that says-"Why the fuck do you care what I do?" But with 'shrums I can see a problem that would grow from easy access. I just don't think it would end well. It's easy enough for me (as a Northern Californan next to, literally next to as in just past my deck, a Redwood forest) to get 'shrums. Actually, it's a little hard and I use that as a control, cause I could see myself doing it every weekend and that ain't right.

So I'll leave it at conflicted. Certainly can't tell people that they can't do what I do, but I still think there would be issues with legalization...

Ah yes, there are always issues incumbent with legalisation. From a British perspective, however, we simply didn't feel sufficient reason for criminalisation has been given.