NationStates Jolt Archive

Silly French People! (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1512&ncid=1512&e=6&u=/afp/20050416/wl_afp/euconstitutionfrance_050416153756) What gives you the right to think you can vote for what you think is best for FRANCE? Can't you see how the rest of Europe wants you to vote? What are you, dense?

Maybe someone should start a letter writing campaign to different French towns telling them how they should vote?

(make sure to click the clicky)

(edit - please note - sarcasm font is ON)

Perhaps they can kick France out of the EU?

I know how to fix this. Let Germany invade them *again*

:D

How much of an influence on the world does France have compared to the U.S.?

Hmm...a vote on joining a supra-national entity or starting a war in a volatile region. Yes, very appropriate for a comparison.

How much of an influence on the world does France have compared to the U.S.?
Not nearly as much as they wish, but re the EU; alot more.

Hmm...a vote on joining a supra-national entity or starting a war in a volatile region. Yes, very appropriate for a comparison.

Hmm, sour grapes anyone?


Last I recall the last US election was not a declaration of war, or even about that.

Now go vote the right way you silly frenchies.

Silly French People! (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1512&ncid=1512&e=6&u=/afp/20050416/wl_afp/euconstitutionfrance_050416153756) What gives you the right to think you can vote for what you think is best for FRANCE? Can't you see how the rest of Europe wants you to vote? What are you, dense?

Maybe someone should start a letter writing campaign to different French towns telling them how they should vote?

Wow... I didn't know it was a crime for a country to think of its own interests ahead of the interests of the rest of the world. America of all the nations in the world ought to express outrage at the French daring to think of what's good for themselves before what's good for everyone else!

This thread is just another Bushevik Monkey Dance trying to belittle the French as a nation and culture for not kissing Il Duhce's ass.

:rolleyes:

Silly French People! (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1512&ncid=1512&e=6&u=/afp/20050416/wl_afp/euconstitutionfrance_050416153756) What gives you the right to think you can vote for what you think is best for FRANCE? Can't you see how the rest of Europe wants you to vote? What are you, dense?

Maybe someone should start a letter writing campaign to different French towns telling them how they should vote?

(make sure to click the clicky)

The answer to all questions is summed up in one simple word: Fish.

Hey, it's the second smart thing to come out of France, the first being Luc Besson.

I wouldn't worry too much. First, if there is preasure, they'll surrender. And if not, it's not like they are a threat, anyhow. But I guess everybody will remember this the NEXT time we all have to kick some despotic war-lord out of their country or come to their financial rescue. :) Vive la France, non?

I wouldn't worry too much. First, if there is preasure, they'll surrender. And if not, it's not like they are a threat, anyhow. But I guess everybody will remember this the NEXT time we all have to kick some despotic war-lord out of their country or come to their financial rescue. :) Vive la France, non?

And the Monkey Dance is growing into a chorus line...

:rolleyes:

Hmm, sour grapes anyone?


Last I recall the last US election was not a declaration of war, or even about that.

No go vote the right way you silly frenchies.

Right.

The last US election was in 2004, which was well after we had already invaded Iraq. The actual invasion took place without a vote and on nebulous grounds that have since been disproved almost entirely. There have been thousands of deaths in the Iraq war, which has also escalated the war on terrorism, as it 'proved' the United States was after Muslims to some people.

As for France, they're exercising their right to vote on a matter that will determine the course of their nation, and are not going to be destabilizing an entire region if they choose to not agree to the EU constitution as it's currently formed. You probably didn't follow the negotiations over the constitution, but it was not universally loved even then.

In any case, I'm an American, not a French. Spare me the ad hominem justifications for an empty argument.

ah, but there is a difference. people can have reasonable disagreements about the eu. no reasonable person could vote in favor of bush.

don't mind me as i poke this thing with a stick

Do not worry EU, The French will come around. Just have, oh lets say for shits and grins, Madagascar threaten them and they will do what you wish. Honest works every time.

Nice find BOzzy gave me a good read before bed thanks

And the Monkey Dance is growing into a chorus line...

:rolleyes:
But, as we all know:
Monkeys>Frogs

Wow... I didn't know it was a crime for a country to think of its own interests ahead of the interests of the rest of the world. America of all the nations in the world ought to express outrage at the French daring to think of what's good for themselves before what's good for everyone else!

This thread is just another Bushevik Monkey Dance trying to belittle the French as a nation and culture for not kissing Il Duhce's ass.

:rolleyes:

Since when did the Russians invade France? French are after all the only ones that do the Monkey Dance.

Since when did the Russians invade France? French are after all the only ones that do the Monkey Dance.

I'd wonder if this was sarcasm, except that independent thinking and awareness disqualifies one from membership in the Bushevik Revolution.

:rolleyes:

Wow... I didn't know it was a crime for a country to think of its own interests ahead of the interests of the rest of the world. America of all the nations in the world ought to express outrage at the French daring to think of what's good for themselves before what's good for everyone else!

This thread is just another Bushevik Monkey Dance trying to belittle the French as a nation and culture for not kissing Il Duhce's ass.

:rolleyes:

Let me introduce you to they mysterious art of sarcasm. Now that you've become acquainted, try reading my post again, fool.

When did the French ever have a written campaign to influence the US election? Wasn't that The Guardian, a British publication?

Let me introduce you to they mysterious art of sarcasm. Now that you've become acquainted, try reading my post again, fool.

Given your penchance for pro-Bush anti-global postings you'll pardon me if I missed the sarcasm in that statement.

:rolleyes:

Right.

The last US election was in 2004, which was well after we had already invaded Iraq. The actual invasion took place without a vote and on nebulous grounds that have since been disproved almost entirely. There have been thousands of deaths in the Iraq war, which has also escalated the war on terrorism, as it 'proved' the United States was after Muslims to some people.

As for France, they're exercising their right to vote on a matter that will determine the course of their nation, and are not going to be destabilizing an entire region if they choose to not agree to the EU constitution as it's currently formed. You probably didn't follow the negotiations over the constitution, but it was not universally loved even then.

In any case, I'm an American, not a French. Spare me the ad hominem justifications for an empty argument.

Sour grapes make a bad whine you know...

The people of France have the same rights to their elections as the citizens of any other nation. Get it?

When did the French ever have a written campaign to influence the US election? Wasn't that The Guardian, a British publication?

hey now, let's not let facts get in the way of mindless demonization.

ah, but there is a difference. people can have reasonable disagreements about the eu. no reasonable person could vote in favor of bush.

don't mind me as i poke this thing with a stick
Wow! I found a sour vineyard!

The people of France have the same rights to their elections as the citizens of any other nation. Get it?

Only the United States invaded Iraq because of faulty intelligence, not a vote. Nice try at an equivocation though :)

When did the French ever have a written campaign to influence the US election? Wasn't that The Guardian, a British publication?
That has nothing to do with the point. Europe is trying to tell the French how to vote, regardless of their own opinion of what may be in France's best interest. They will soon know excatly how annoying and counter-productive that type of interference can be.

That has nothing to do with the point. Europe is trying to tell the French how to vote, regardless of their own opinion of what may be in France's best interest. They will soon know excatly how annoying and counter-productive that type of interference can be.

But the French never told Americans how to vote, so why mock them?

Only the United States invaded Iraq because of faulty intelligence, not a vote. Nice try at an equivocation though :)

Gee, you really are having a tough time getting the point of this one, aren't you.

Let me try this;

THIS THREAD AND MY COMPARISON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WAR IN IRAQ

There, maybe that'll sink in... Now Do you need help figuring out just what this thread/comparison IS about or are you big enough to determine that on your own?

Where you are off base bozzy is in using an internal affair as your example. Yes, France was opposed to the war in Iraq, but that is because that is some of global significance. One can only imagine that the French could care less about American Internal policies, or even American regional policy. You using this French Election over the EU constitution as an example of an ironic parody, makes about as much sense as, and I'm just making this up, a French news paper belittling the American Government for requiring Canadians to have Passportsto enter the US starting later this year.

Perhaps you could judge france on refusing to compensate Tahitians and other islanders for the ill health effects of nuclear testing.

But the French told Americans how to vote, so why mock them?
You mean, other than for being French?

Do you really not get that or is that sarcasm? It has to be sarcasm..

You mean, other than for being French?

Do you really not get that or is that sarcasm? It has to be sarcasm..

Stop patronizing me you arrogant ass.

Explain your "point", because I'm almost assured that your "point" is severly flawed.

Where you are off base bozzy is in using an internal affair as your example. Yes, France was opposed to the war in Iraq, but that is because that is some of global significance. One can only imagine that the French could care less about American Internal policies, or even American regional policy. You using this French Election over the EU constitution as an example of an ironic parody, makes about as much sense as, and I'm just making this up, a French news paper belittling the American Government for requiring Canadians to have Passportsto enter the US starting later this year.

Perhaps you could judge france on refusing to compensate Tahitians and other islanders for the ill health effects of nuclear testing.
Wow, you sour grape people are really trying hard to dig up Iraq, even though my comparison was simply from one election (presidential) to another (EU participation). Both of which are first and foremost internal matters of the respective state. Maybe it is about time you got over it so you too could "move on."

Stop patronizing me you arrogant ass.

Explain your "point", because I'm almost assured that your "point" is severly flawed.
Oooh, a volunteer for my new sig!

If the prior post is not clear enough, you'll have to find another arrogant ass to explain it for you.

Again, you're making a generalizing equivocation. The president of the United States, particularly over the last century or so, has acted as much more than simply the leader of a nation. Bush, by putting forth the preemption doctrine, as well as the generalized idea of a war on terrorism, has extended the reach of his office and government to include almost anywhere in the world.

France agreeing to the EU Constitution, on the other hand, is an entirely internal matter, and likely will only delay the inevitable. As has been explained many times, it doesn't involve a war, increasing hostilities, or creating a doctrine that suggests only the most minimal of justification is required for unilateral action.

Sorry, but your comparison still doesn't hold up.

Oooh, a volunteer for my new sig!

If the prior post is not clear enough, you'll have to find another arrogant ass to explain it for you.

But you try to draw some kind of correlation that the French were guilty of telling Americans how to vote, and now turnabout is fair play. But the French never tried to tell Americans how to vote in our presidential election. So why do you have such animosity towards France in this instance?

But you try to draw some kind of correlation that the French were guilty of telling Americans how to vote, and now turnabout is fair play. But the French never tried to tell Americans how to vote in our presidential election. So why do you have such animosity towards France in this instance?

Actually, Fozzy is trying to suggest that France should empathize and understand the United States for being told what to decide against what it feels is best for itself.

Even then it's still apples and oranges since France didn't have any iron grip on global politics like America does now since Napoleon was up and about.

Again, you're making a generalizing equivocation. The president of the United States, particularly over the last century or so, has acted as much more than simply the leader of a nation. Bush, by putting forth the preemption doctrine, as well as the generalized idea of a war on terrorism, has extended the reach of his office and government to include almost anywhere in the world.

France agreeing to the EU Constitution, on the other hand, is an entirely internal matter, and likely will only delay the inevitable. As has been explained many times, it doesn't involve a war, increasing hostilities, or creating a doctrine that suggests only the most minimal of justification is required for unilateral action.

Sorry, but your comparison still doesn't hold up.


Ahh good, you're onboard finally. Welcome.

Simple answer; the ability to project power globally is hardly anything new, nor is the US the first to be able to do so. The entire point of having a global presence, both economically and militarily, is to influence world events to your preference. The world has been vastly fortunate that the US has been the one with the power for the last hundred or so years, and sole power for the last twenty. However the economic and military power still belongs to the USA. It is a tool of the USA paid for, run and built by the USA. That makes it USA business, not world business. No matter of whining will change that.

Now France finds herself in a position similar, where the rest of Europe feels they have the right to tell her how to handle their own election simply because it's outcome WILL have an immediate and measurable effect on them. I side with the French - Fuck Europe - vote what you feel is best for you.

The irony is that nobody from the US is telling them how to vote - even though a strong EU could have an indirect material effect on the US as well. We respect French sovereignty, Europe, as we can see, does not.

But you try to draw some kind of correlation that the French were guilty of telling Americans how to vote, and now turnabout is fair play. But the French never tried to tell Americans how to vote in our presidential election. So why do you have such animosity towards France in this instance?

Really, they never did? You sure you want to stand on that?

Also, don't read things in that are not there - ther is no 'turnabout' since it is not the Americans telling the French how they should vote.

I have no animosity towards the French. Though I do enjoy poking fun at them. This is nothing new - you'd know that if you saw Holy Grail.

Really, they never did? You sure you want to stand on that?

Yeah, go ahead and show me where they did. I was under the impression that the controversial writing campaign was a British effort.

Yeah, go ahead and show me where they did. I was under the impression that the controversial writing campaign was a British effort.

That wasn't the only effort. Remember all those self-important polls Europeans were doing on themselves to show how THEY'D vote? The letter writing campaign was only the most egregious. There were plenty more, and it was not just from France. The Asian countries all showed considerably more repect than the Europeans did.

You really don't want to stand there. Even a rabid liberal living in France makes the case "So I told my friend that I myself was so disgusted with America that I didn't need the French exacerbating things, since after all it wasn't their country." http://www.alternet.org/election04/20551
.

Yeah, EU is oppressing France. The damned Union is run by France, Italy, UK, and Germany! I like EU but the Four Big dominate it. When it was expanded, they wanted to decrease other countries voting power, most notably Spain and Poland which both have about 40million people each.

Besides, they didn't say how the French should vote. They told the truth. The EU is being weakened by countries that think of themselves instead of the greater good. Should a US legislation have to pass in all 50 states before taking effect? If New York state feels that a law damages its economy(while it might make many other states' economies) should it be able to veto it? Now, the EU is not a country I know. But hopefully it will eventually become a Federation in which one single country can't veto something like that. France could always leave the Union...

Note: French journalists didn't understand why we didn't adopt the Euro in a referendum. Just the same I don't understand why they won't adopt the constitution. The kind of veto power we are talking about is devasting.

Did you now that Poland was chewed up in part because every noble in parliament could veto the king's legislation? It could be that serious.

......Besides, they didn't say how the French should vote. They told the truth. The EU is being weakened by countries that think of themselves instead of the greater good. Should a US legislation have to pass in all 50 states before taking effect? If New York state feels that a law damages its economy(while it might make many other states' economies) should it be able to veto it? Now, the EU is not a country I know. But hopefully it will eventually become a Federation in which one single country can't veto something like that. France could always leave the Union...
.


A good comparison, but flawed. New York is not sovereign, France is. If the French want to give up their sovereignty that is their business. I strongly doubt they are ready for that. There is more I could say, but that is adequate.

Silly French People! (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1512&ncid=1512&e=6&u=/afp/20050416/wl_afp/euconstitutionfrance_050416153756) What gives you the right to think you can vote for what you think is best for FRANCE? Can't you see how the rest of Europe wants you to vote? What are you, dense?


:rolleyes:

I do so hate to feed the trolls (this is the second thread this guy has posted simply out of hatred of France). But then I do suppose it's mildly amusing to see the bloated corpse of anti-French hatred come stumbling back into these fora. And entertaining these morons helps me develop a rather pleasant superiority complex. Now, let's see...

First. Whom exactly are you addressing as 'France'? You do know that the French government fully backs the Constitution and that, at last poll, 44% of voters planned to approve it also? Oh, that probably doesn't factor into your simplistic world view...

Second, what the rest of Europe wants to vote is up to them, and the plan is that every single nation gets to decide individually (until and unless one blocks it). For example, there has already been a referendum in Spain, and the voters approved it. Since this Constitution will be binding on all member States, it is perfectly natural for each member State to be able to decide whether or not they want it. In France, the government decided to leave it up to the democratic process. Now, they made that decision when it looked as though a majority would be voting yes, but too bad for them, they miscalculated... In any case, as the Constitution would be binding on all, the EU has agreed that, if it is rejected by any nation, it will be scrapped. We have a right to decide whether or not we want this Constitution. It's a little thing called democracy, which you appear not to be familiar with.

Third, what on earth gives you the idea that people will be voting solely on the basis of what they think is best for France? I plan to vote no, and I will be doing so because, in my opinion, this Constitution sets us along a far too capitalistic path which I feel will be bad for the people of Europe, not just of France. I am exercising my right, duty and responsability as a European citizen.

Fourth, "what the rest of Europe wants" would not be a valid argument in any case. Just ask the Brits if they'd fall in line with any European policy solely because it is what the rest of Europe wants. ;)

Fifth and final, who the hell are you to tell us what to vote?

Rejecting the EU constitution is the best thing they can do. I'd reject it too if I could, alas we Germans will not be allowed to vote on this, since our politicians know that we'd reject it. :mad: :mad: :mad:

That wasn't the only effort. Remember all those self-important polls Europeans were doing on themselves to show how THEY'D vote? The letter writing campaign was only the most egregious. There were plenty more, and it was not just from France. The Asian countries all showed considerably more repect than the Europeans did.

You really don't want to stand there. Even a rabid liberal living in France makes the case "So I told my friend that I myself was so disgusted with America that I didn't need the French exacerbating things, since after all it wasn't their country." http://www.alternet.org/election04/20551
.
The letter writing campaign was a British effort by the newspaper "The Guardian". Get your facts straight. :rolleyes:

Wow... I didn't know it was a crime for a country to think of its own interests ahead of the interests of the rest of the world. America of all the nations in the world ought to express outrage at the French daring to think of what's good for themselves before what's good for everyone else!

This thread is just another Bushevik Monkey Dance trying to belittle the French as a nation and culture for not kissing Il Duhce's ass.

:rolleyes:

here here

Yeah, I'm not sure about the EU Constitution. I don't know about it. It seems to promise greater European power globally in exchange for national sovereignty. I'd rather keep my nation than become part of a superstate (USA, anyone).

Hmm...a vote on joining a supra-national entity or starting a war in a volatile region. Yes, very appropriate for a comparison.
The American people didn't vote to go to war.

This just shows that the french people are not quite as power hungry as their rediculous leaders.
They would rather have a say in their own issues than hand all of the important issues to some unelected tyrant in brussels.

This just shows that the french people are not quite as power hungry as their rediculous leaders.
They would rather have a say in their own issues than hand all of the important issues to some unelected tyrant in brussels.

What Tyrant? The President of the European Comission? He can't even choose is toilet paper without the authorization of the European Parliament.

There is no other figure that you could call a tyrant, so im wondering where you got that idea..

Still, to the original post: WHO CARES! This is a democracy. Both France and the EU function in democracy, should the French say no, tough, three or four more years of wait, at maximum, before things get going again. The history of European Construction as over 50 years, there have been many setbacks before, should one more happen, besides the political humilliation for Chirac, not that much will happen. All those that come claiming disgrace, rest assured, there is enought political will in Europe to get this constitution going.

Hell, im not sure, but i remember reading somewhere that this referendum is non-binding for the French.. that means that they can vote No, and Chirac can still give the go-ahead for France support for the constitution....

Hell, im not sure, but i remember reading somewhere that this referendum is non-binding for the French.. that means that they can vote No, and Chirac can still give the go-ahead for France support for the constitution....

No. He can't. I'm absolutely sure of that. He's put it in our hands, and if we say no, then that's the end of it, for now at least. There wouldn't be much point in a referendum if he could ignore it, anyway. Can you imagine him saying, Well, the French people have explicitly stated their will, and now I'm going to do the exact opposite?

No. He can't. I'm absolutely sure of that. He's put it in our hands, and if we say no, then that's the end of it, for now at least. There wouldn't be much point in a referendum if he could ignore it, anyway. Can you imagine him saying, Well, the French people have explicitly stated their will, and now I'm going to do the exact opposite?



mmmm yea, you are right, i got confused, it was the Spanish that wasnt non binding... oops ;)

Hell, im not sure, but i remember reading somewhere that this referendum is non-binding for the French.. that means that they can vote No, and Chirac can still give the go-ahead for France support for the constitution....

If true, then he could. But he won't. A lot of European nations only have non-binding referenda, but the results are always obeyed nevertheless. Anything else would be political suicide.

Let the French do as they see fit- we have no reason to tell them what they can and can't do. It's their country and their freedom, we don't have any say in it as far as I'm concerned. I hate to sound like I'm generalising, but I presume not many people like to be told what they should and shouldn't do when it's from someone else.

Fair enough, right?

Franco-German Dominance is beginning to erode, because the UK is the stronger economy and Germany has come to realise that many of its attitudes towards the EU are more in line with the British than the French. It's only just beginning to happen, but with the arrival of eastern Europe, France is finding it more and more difficult to punch above its weight.

I wouldn't worry too much. First, if there is preasure, they'll surrender. And if not, it's not like they are a threat, anyhow. But I guess everybody will remember this the NEXT time we all have to kick some despotic war-lord out of their country or come to their financial rescue. :) Vive la France, non?

In case you didn't notice, French armies saved the American collective ass. Not to mention we were the equivalent of modern guerrilla terrorists. And through history although guerillas have been able to defeat their more professional enemies, they can't govern a state or fight a campaign nearly as well as a professional army. LIKE THE FRENCH!!!

Oh and may I point out the French army is ranked among the first in Europe.

Does anyone ever wonder if some of these jingoist posters are really just high level AI texting programs released on internet forums by the GOP? Don't they seem too one dimensional to pass as real people? It's not as far fetched an idea as it sounds... I read an article about a year ago over how the Star Wars Online RPG had released a few AI-based players that often times proved convining to the patrons.

Just something to think about while the NSA flags you for reading this.

It is not that America does not have culture, it is that America does not have a dominant culture that goes back more than a few hundred years.

Why? Because we are a nation of immigrants and we have only been around since the late 1700s. How are we expected to have traditions that go back before that? How are we expected to have unified traditions when we are made up of a mixture of people from many cultures?

Do not worry EU, The French will come around. Just have, oh lets say for shits and grins, Madagascar threaten them and they will do what you wish. Honest works every time.

Nice find BOzzy gave me a good read before bed thanks

The EU is only asking them to do what they did in 1940. Should be easy.

In case you didn't notice, French armies saved the American collective ass. Not to mention we were the equivalent of modern guerrilla terrorists. And through history although guerillas have been able to defeat their more professional enemies, they can't govern a state or fight a campaign nearly as well as a professional army. LIKE THE FRENCH!!!

Oh and may I point out the French army is ranked among the first in Europe.
Yes, but the problem is the French government tells it what to do, which means it will never be an effective fighting force.

Yes, but the problem is the French government tells it what to do, which means it will never be an effective fighting force.
Get over your pityful american nationalist bullshit. Your governmnent is full of shit and killed thousands in Iraq. Nothing to do with the french governmnent.
I'm not saying the french government is not full of shit as well, but that you should get over that bullshit in your head before it explodes.

Get over your pityful american nationalist bullshit. Your governmnent is full of shit and killed thousands in Iraq. Nothing to do with the french governmnent.
I'm not saying the french government is not full of shit as well, but that you should get over that bullshit in your head before it explodes.
If led by any other government in europe, the french military would be quite formidible. When led by the French government, it leaves much to be desired.

If led by any other government in europe, the french military would be quite formidible. When led by the French government, it leaves much to be desired.
If lead directly bu the US it would be much more useful. They would fight your wars and kill for you. You are right if they were lead by the UK or by Poland it would be better because those countries are puppets of the US.

If lead directly bu the US it would be much more useful. They would fight your wars and kill for you. You are right if they were lead by the UK or by Poland it would be better because those countries are puppets of the US.

Other than the French Foreign Legion, the typical French soldier doesn't impress me.

Well if France accepts it, it won't make a difference because, the UK won't.

Well if France accepts it, it won't make a difference because, the UK won't.

Only one EU nation has to reject it, and it's toast.

Other than the French Foreign Legion, the typical French soldier doesn't impress me.
You are a tough guy. You should do wresling or something.

You are a tough guy. You should do wresling or something.

No, I already did my time in the infantry. Aside from killing people during the first Gulf War, I used to put anti-nuclear protesters in the hospital when I was stationed in Germany.

Rules, you know. No one within 2 meters of the warhead. Legally authorized to kill people within that zone, I only turned them into permanent cripples.

:rolleyes:

I do so hate to feed the trolls (this is the second thread this guy has posted simply out of hatred of France). But then I do suppose it's mildly amusing to see the bloated corpse of anti-French hatred come stumbling back into these fora. And entertaining these morons helps me develop a rather pleasant superiority complex. Now, let's see...

First. Whom exactly are you addressing as 'France'? You do know that the French government fully backs the Constitution and that, at last poll, 44% of voters planned to approve it also? Oh, that probably doesn't factor into your simplistic world view...

Second, what the rest of Europe wants to vote is up to them, and the plan is that every single nation gets to decide individually (until and unless one blocks it). For example, there has already been a referendum in Spain, and the voters approved it. Since this Constitution will be binding on all member States, it is perfectly natural for each member State to be able to decide whether or not they want it. In France, the government decided to leave it up to the democratic process. Now, they made that decision when it looked as though a majority would be voting yes, but too bad for them, they miscalculated... In any case, as the Constitution would be binding on all, the EU has agreed that, if it is rejected by any nation, it will be scrapped. We have a right to decide whether or not we want this Constitution. It's a little thing called democracy, which you appear not to be familiar with.

Third, what on earth gives you the idea that people will be voting solely on the basis of what they think is best for France? I plan to vote no, and I will be doing so because, in my opinion, this Constitution sets us along a far too capitalistic path which I feel will be bad for the people of Europe, not just of France. I am exercising my right, duty and responsability as a European citizen.

Fourth, "what the rest of Europe wants" would not be a valid argument in any case. Just ask the Brits if they'd fall in line with any European policy solely because it is what the rest of Europe wants. ;)

Fifth and final, who the hell are you to tell us what to vote?

I take off my hat to you, Arridia! Note B0zzy's absence following your post. Well done for shutting him up.

Ein Deutscher']The letter writing campaign was a British effort by the newspaper "The Guardian". Get your facts straight. :rolleyes:
Well, for reading comprehension I'm afraid you get a big ZERO. I never made the claim. If you want to try to be ironic you'll have to first be accurate or else you'll just look foolish. Get YOUR facts straight or I'll serve you up again.

No, I already did my time in the infantry. Aside from killing people during the first Gulf War, I used to put anti-nuclear protesters in the hospital when I was stationed in Germany.

Rules, you know. No one within 2 meters of the warhead. Legally authorized to kill people within that zone, I only turned them into permanent cripples.
whoa... really? isn't 2 meters still kinda close...

me, I'll stay as far from a warhead as I possibly can... :D

No, I already did my time in the infantry. Aside from killing people during the first Gulf War, I used to put anti-nuclear protesters in the hospital when I was stationed in Germany.

Rules, you know. No one within 2 meters of the warhead. Legally authorized to kill people within that zone, I only turned them into permanent cripples.
Oh I see. I'm cooking a paëlla for this evening. I was in Madrid on last summer and I visited the Retiro Park. It is very nice. The chicas are cute. Plus I going to the toilets right now.

:rolleyes:

I do so hate to feed the trolls (this is the second thread this guy has posted simply out of hatred of France). But then I do suppose it's mildly amusing to see the bloated corpse of anti-French hatred come stumbling back into these fora. And entertaining these morons helps me develop a rather pleasant superiority complex. Now, let's see...

First. Whom exactly are you addressing as 'France'? You do know that the French government fully backs the Constitution and that, at last poll, 44% of voters planned to approve it also? Oh, that probably doesn't factor into your simplistic world view...

Second, what the rest of Europe wants to vote is up to them, and the plan is that every single nation gets to decide individually (until and unless one blocks it). For example, there has already been a referendum in Spain, and the voters approved it. Since this Constitution will be binding on all member States, it is perfectly natural for each member State to be able to decide whether or not they want it. In France, the government decided to leave it up to the democratic process. Now, they made that decision when it looked as though a majority would be voting yes, but too bad for them, they miscalculated... In any case, as the Constitution would be binding on all, the EU has agreed that, if it is rejected by any nation, it will be scrapped. We have a right to decide whether or not we want this Constitution. It's a little thing called democracy, which you appear not to be familiar with.

Third, what on earth gives you the idea that people will be voting solely on the basis of what they think is best for France? I plan to vote no, and I will be doing so because, in my opinion, this Constitution sets us along a far too capitalistic path which I feel will be bad for the people of Europe, not just of France. I am exercising my right, duty and responsability as a European citizen.

Fourth, "what the rest of Europe wants" would not be a valid argument in any case. Just ask the Brits if they'd fall in line with any European policy solely because it is what the rest of Europe wants. ;)

Fifth and final, who the hell are you to tell us what to vote?I don't see this as an Anti-France thread... seems to me he's praising France for standing up to their ideals... even under pressure from the other EU members as well as France's own President. Granted his use of Sarcasm make it sound otherwise...

I think the point he's trying to make is how the voters are being pressured to vote by the rest of the EU members. Think about all the Kerry/Bush threads that appeared here. then after the election, all the "Stupid Americans" threads that popped up. now France is getting a taste of what that's like.

French President Jacques Chirac, alarmed at a series of polls indicating a "no" vote, launched a personal effort to persuade voters this week, warning on television that France would be turned into the "black sheep" of Europe. I mean, thier own President is trying to use Peer Pressure on them... doesn't he have faith in his own people?

On the other hand, the rest of Europe is also getting a taste of the fustration the US felt when the French, Germans and Russians blocked our UN proposoals...

My honest opinion... I really couldn't care less... it's not the US's Citizen's place to critizise a foreign power... I'll leave that to our President.

:rolleyes:

I do so hate to feed the trolls (this is the second thread this guy has posted simply out of hatred of France). But then I do suppose it's mildly amusing to see the bloated corpse of anti-French hatred come stumbling back into these fora. And entertaining these morons helps me develop a rather pleasant superiority complex. Now, let's see...

Oooh, you are so ironic. You called me a troll and a moron and implied yourself to be superior. All without offering any substance or validation. You incorrectly state that I hate France, simply for being critical of them and providing evidence of my assertations. So If I am critical of France I am anti-French? Isn't that the same attitude you accuse Cheyney of having about the USA? Meanwhile you stand naked and alone pretending that you have clothes and somehow expect me to feel intimidated. Cling hard to your illusion. It's all you've got.


First. Whom exactly are you addressing as 'France'? You do know that the French government fully backs the Constitution and that, at last poll, 44% of voters planned to approve it also? Oh, that probably doesn't factor into your simplistic world view...
What, exactly is your point here? I really don't give a shyt about what polls in France says nor how they vote. Did you miss that part? Try reading again oh complex superior one. Let me know if you need help with the big words.


Second, what the rest of Europe wants to vote is up to them, and the plan is that every single nation gets to decide individually (until and unless one blocks it). For example, there has already been a referendum in Spain, and the voters approved it. Since this Constitution will be binding on all member States, it is perfectly natural for each member State to be able to decide whether or not they want it. In France, the government decided to leave it up to the democratic process. Now, they made that decision when it looked as though a majority would be voting yes, but too bad for them, they miscalculated... In any case, as the Constitution would be binding on all, the EU has agreed that, if it is rejected by any nation, it will be scrapped. We have a right to decide whether or not we want this Constitution. It's a little thing called democracy, which you appear not to be familiar with.

How do you come to the conclusion that I don't feel the French should be allowed to vote on this. I'd really like to know. It might tell me more about this alternate universe in which you live.

So, what you're saying is that the French government was generous enough to allow the French to vote on this because they thought the vote was going to get their way, therefore implying that if the French govt. though otherwise they would not have allowed a vote? You call that democracy?


Third, what on earth gives you the idea that people will be voting solely on the basis of what they think is best for France? I plan to vote no, and I will be doing so because, in my opinion, this Constitution sets us along a far too capitalistic path which I feel will be bad for the people of Europe, not just of France. I am exercising my right, duty and responsability as a European citizen.
And you feel I care because...?
Vote how you wish, it is your election. I've made my opinion on that pretty clear - even the most thich-headed person could see that. Maybe now you can too. If the good people of Europe have a different opinion than you of how you should vote that is their tough shyt.

Fourth, "what the rest of Europe wants" would not be a valid argument in any case. Just ask the Brits if they'd fall in line with any European policy solely because it is what the rest of Europe wants. ;)

Or you could ask the US what they think about European opinion of our elections. Our reply would not be dissimilar to your own or that of the UK.

Fifth and final, who the hell are you to tell us what to vote?
ROFLMAO! I want some of what YOU'RE drinking! If I told you how to vote then please share it with me. Then I could at least pretend like I care.

You know, the trouble with a superiority comples is that you are the only one who doesn't know how foolish you look.

Bozzy's got this thing about superiority, but I think what he's really on about is inferiority...

Ein Deutscher']Rejecting the EU constitution is the best thing they can do. I'd reject it too if I could, alas we Germans will not be allowed to vote on this, since our politicians know that we'd reject it. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Gee, and I though Germany was a democracy. Ariddia and your comments seems to suggest otherwise.

I don't see this as an Anti-France thread... seems to me he's praising France for standing up to their ideals... even under pressure from the other EU members as well as France's own President. Granted his use of Sarcasm make it sound otherwise...

I think the point he's trying to make is how the voters are being pressured to vote by the rest of the EU members. Think about all the Kerry/Bush threads that appeared here. then after the election, all the "Stupid Americans" threads that popped up. now France is getting a taste of what that's like.

I mean, thier own President is trying to use Peer Pressure on them... doesn't he have faith in his own people?

On the other hand, the rest of Europe is also getting a taste of the fustration the US felt when the French, Germans and Russians blocked our UN proposoals...

My honest opinion... I really couldn't care less... it's not the US's Citizen's place to critizise a foreign power... I'll leave that to our President.

Thank you. And yes, you're right - when God was passing out patience I got back in line for sarcasm.

Most people lack the intellect and or energy to keep up with my sarcasm. I often hold back because of this, but not this time. You are indeed astute to grasp my message and meaning - far more so than most others on this board. It is a pleasure.

Wow, I must say i am suprised their is so much interest in the EU constitution, espesialy from america, i had always (wrongly apparently) belived that the USA was uninterested in Europe, I Stand gladly corrected.

Just so that you know, All European Countries arn't in favour of the EU as a whole. Britain (England especialy) are against the EU and would prefer to revert back to the old EEC which was purely economic rather then political.

I take off my hat to you, Arridia! Note B0zzy's absence following your post. Well done for shutting him up.
LOL!

LOL!
was wondering when you'll read that post...

Bozzy's got this thing about superiority, but I think what he's really on about is inferiority...
umm, right.

Unlike you and a few others here - I would never be so arrogant or elitist as to claim anyone superior or inferior to anybody else.

I had a really good time reading B0zzy's posts. It is really good to laugh. Thanx for entertaining me with all your wrong ideas about Europe, democracy and France. Really funny...So for you, if Germany doesnt organize a referendum, it means Germany is not a democracy... What a simplistic definition of democracy!!

And why does it matter to you what France will vote since you dont even live in the EU? Thats the main difference between the US presidential elections and the European constitution: the US president has an influence on the whole world while the impact of France, the EU and the European Constitution can almost be neglected. Thats why people can express their disagreement about the "new" US president. I really dont see what the point is for you to criticize France.

And why does it matter to you what France will vote since you dont even live in the EU? Thats the main difference between the US presidential elections and the European constitution: the US president has an influence on the whole world while the impact of France, the EU and the European Constitution can almost be neglected. Thats why people can express their disagreement about the "new" US president. I really dont see what the point is for you to criticize France.and the EU won't have any influence in the World??? I think you seriously underestimate them.

I had a really good time reading B0zzy's posts. It is really good to laugh. Thanx for entertaining me with all your wrong ideas about Europe, democracy and France. Really funny...So for you, if Germany doesnt organize a referendum, it means Germany is not a democracy... What a simplistic definition of democracy!!

Gawd, what are you, a 6th grader? Sarcasmn not taught in your school? I was making fun of two posters who were making claims that, when combined, indicate the preposterous. Sigh.

and the EU won't have any influence in the World??? I think you seriously underestimate them.

Do you honestly think that 25 (soon 27) different countries, which all different interests and alliances, will have a real influence in the balance of power. Come on, you know that the EU is far from being a homegeneous block and therefore wont have any significant influence in the next following years.

Gawd, what are you, a 6th grader? Sarcasmn not taught in your school? I was making fun of two posters who were making claims that, when combined, indicate the preposterous. Sigh.

Sorry for that B0zzy, i will read your following posts more carefully.

And why does it matter to you what France will vote since you dont even live in the EU? Thats the main difference between the US presidential elections and the European constitution: the US president has an influence on the whole world while the impact of France, the EU and the European Constitution can almost be neglected. Thats why people can express their disagreement about the "new" US president. I really dont see what the point is for you to criticize France.
OK. I really don't care what France election results are, as I've said about a billion times now.
I find it interesting that France is now being pressured by Europeans who are not French on how to vote. Even if I accepted your (incorrect) assumption that the EU is of no concenquence to the rest of the world - it is of substantially more effect to the people of Europe than any one thing the US has ever voted on. In spite of that I feel and have repeadedly stated I feel it still does not give them the right to tell the people of France how to vote.

If you want to play with the grown-ups you'll have to do better than that.

What is the European Constitution gonna change in ur life?

Btw, it is not because im young that you have to treat me as a stupid kid.

What is the European Constitution gonna change in ur life?

Btw, it is not because im young that you have to treat me as a stupid kid.
I'm glad you asked, and I don't think you are stupid, in fact your 'stock' is rapidly going up IMHO. You are asking good qustions. A strong EU could become a major world economy, comparable to the US and Japan. Some would think that intimidating, but I welcome it.

Currently the US is the only economic superpower - supporting most of the worlds economies. The US is a net importer because who else does the world have to sell to?

If the EU were to become a large economic player then the world would not be so dependant on the US economy. It would work to stablize economies globally. It also would help to increase the overall global economy and help developing countries diversify their customer base.

Meanwhile the USA would be able to start exporting more goods and US producers would be more able to compete with imports.

Pretty much a win-win for everyone.

However that is all contingient on the European Nations agreeing on the context for an EU and keeping it together and effective. This current plan may be good, it may not. I'm not one of the people who will have to live with its direct concenquences, so I canot develop an opinion other than that the general idea is good.

Also, in the extremely unlikely idea that the EU decided to become a military super power I would find mutual benefit. That is about as likely as Brittany Spears growing testacles, so I'll stop there. Sufice to say the US has been carrying the burden all alone for far too long. An ethical neighboring superpower would be welcome, which I believe the EU would be.

Thank you. And yes, you're right - when God was passing out patience I got back in line for sarcasm.

Most people lack the intellect and or energy to keep up with my sarcasm. I often hold back because of this, but not this time. You are indeed astute to grasp my message and meaning - far more so than most others on this board. It is a pleasure.

I think the people that are taking your posts the wrong way are generally a bit more astute then this. I can't vouche for their perception one way or another, but it would seem as though they generally wouldn't be completely dense as they have been in this thread. You just managed to strike a very raw nerve. Not only that, but you struck it five or six more times for good measure. There's nothing wrong with that. They shouldn't let the emotions that are generated by this topic, especially when an American has the gall to comment on it, get in the way of the most basic of reading comprehension skills. But they have and I found it pretty funny.

Let's get something straight. This is the way that I interpreted his post and I have a feeling it is the way he wanted it done.

What gives you the right to think you can vote for what you think is best for FRANCE? Can't you see how the rest of Europe wants you to vote? What are you, dense?

Take a hard look at this post. The only way that this can represent an American person telling a French person how to vote is that it is an American person writing the post. Aside from that, he is doing nothing more then relaying satirical observations of what elements of European governments might say to a French citizen. The absurdity of what he says, and one level deeper what the European governments would say, is the entire point. It is absurd for these governments to tell the French people that if they don't vote a certain way on something that is clearly a matter of internal politics that Bad Things will happen. Indeed, it is absurd for any citizen of one country to tell citizens of another country how to vote on an internal matter. The citizens of the foreign country can tell you how they would vote. There's no harm in that as long as they don't point a gun at your head and give you the evil eye while they tell you. But to actually tell someone how to vote is laughable. This flows nicely into the last part of his post.

Maybe someone should start a letter writing campaign to different French towns telling them how they should vote?

Again, it would be silly to assume that he is saying that Americans should write letters to French citizens telling them how to vote. The matter of French people wanting or not wanting to adopt the EU constitution is of no concern to us. What B0zzy is saying is that maybe a pro-EU (at least, pro-current-EU-constitution) European should send letters to French citizens urging them to vote a certain way on an internal matter. Again, this is meant to be an absurd statement. When letters from Britain were mailed to Americans urging them to vote for Kerry, we understandably felt indignant. Just the same, the thought of foreigners telling you, the French, how to vote should cause indignation. Apparently it did because you started attacking B0zzy. This is odd because he is not a European and he has not sent you a letter. Therefore you have no reason to be angry at him.

It is an internal matter for the French. Whether France adopts the EU constitution is of much greater concern to France then to some faceless EU politician.

Are other Europeans really telling the French how to vote, or are they simply saying this referendum is about EU constitution, not about you internal power struggle? And I know, "what's the difference?"... ...I think there is one. I mean, the French referendum will bring the EU constitution down if they vote 'against'. Now, I seem to believe the French would quite possibly vote 'oui' if somebody else than Chirac would ask them. Now that it IS Chirac asking, the far left - as an absurd example - has asked if Chirac would step down if his side (the 'oui') won, that way it would be easier to tell their people to vote 'for' the constitution. The rest of Europe may- or may not - feel this should be about the issue, not about the persons behind it.

I think that's why other Europeans are sticking their noses in to it: it concerns more than your internal power struggle. But what do I know. Carry on.

I'm glad you asked, and I don't think you are stupid, in fact your 'stock' is rapidly going up IMHO. You are asking good qustions. A strong EU could become a major world economy, comparable to the US and Japan. Some would think that intimidating, but I welcome it.

Currently the US is the only economic superpower - supporting most of the worlds economies. The US is a net importer because who else does the world have to sell to?

If the EU were to become a large economic player then the world would not be so dependant on the US economy. It would work to stablize economies globally. It also would help to increase the overall global economy and help developing countries diversify their customer base.

Meanwhile the USA would be able to start exporting more goods and US producers would be more able to compete with imports.

Pretty much a win-win for everyone.

However that is all contingient on the European Nations agreeing on the context for an EU and keeping it together and effective. This current plan may be good, it may not. I'm not one of the people who will have to live with its direct concenquences, so I canot develop an opinion other than that the general idea is good.

Also, in the extremely unlikely idea that the EU decided to become a military super power I would find mutual benefit. That is about as likely as Brittany Spears growing testacles, so I'll stop there. Sufice to say the US has been carrying the burden all alone for far too long. An ethical neighboring superpower would be welcome, which I believe the EU would be.

That definitely makes sense but dont you forget the benefits the US get from being the only superpower. Do you think that overall it is in the American best interest to favour the birth of what could be its biggest "enemy"? Maybe for the moment, the US feel the burden of what being a superpower really means but shouldnt they look a bit more forward to check if the European Union really fir American long-term interests.

This discussion is meaningful only if the EU effectively works as a homegenous entity, which is far from being proved.

That definitely makes sense but dont you forget the benefits the US get from being the only superpower. Do you think that overall it is in the American best interest to favour the birth of what could be its biggest "enemy"? Maybe for the moment, the US feel the burden of what being a superpower really means but shouldnt they look a bit more forward to check if the European Union really fir American long-term interests.

This discussion is meaningful only if the EU effectively works as a homegenous entity, which is far from being proved.

The US does not (yet) have the capacity to look forward in time. (yet- haha) There is no way of knowing if Europe will continue to be a rational continent, or if there will be a dramatic shift in their sensibilities and they become supporters of opression and evil. Since they are not at this time and have no inclination to become so, there is no reason to punish or hinder them for something they have not, and likely will never do.
There is always potential for change, you have to make the best decisions based on what current circumtances you have and then deal with the future when it arrives.

As far as any 'benefit' from being the sole superpower, the US has far underutilized that circumstance. Many nations in the past have not been so generous, nor would many today.

The US does not (yet) have the capacity to look forward in time. (yet- haha) There is no way of knowing if Europe will continue to be a rational continent, or if there will be a dramatic shift in their sensibilities and they become supporters of opression and evil. Since they are not at this time and have no inclination to become so, there is no reason to punish or hinder them for something they have not, and likely will never do.
Phew! (So we can proceed fellow Europeans, we are not being detected yet! hurry...!)

Bozzy! Are you saying same europeans who told Usa how to
vote are now saying france how to vote? Wouldn't that be
expected. Also I read here that french didn't
tell Usa how to vote, so they don't deserve this pressure
from the europeans. (hope you understud my meaning)
If so, how could this become so huge issue here?

Sorry if I was way off. I either didn't get your sarcasm or
otherwise was dyslexic.

Actually, the French are proving to be quite the obstructionists.

I have nothing personal against the French people, I just hate Parisians. If France, one of the founding countries of the EU, was to not approve the constitution then I see no hope for a united Europe.

And I have absolutely no respect what-so-ever for the French Military since Napoleon....and he wasn't even french, and for the French Foreign Legion...and tey weren't even French...

And comon, you can't give respect to a nation made up of socialists and still sore from being beaten in less than 6 weeks by a nation it thought inferior.

I'm a Brit and lots of the people in my country don't like the USA or France. Maybe, if we give everyone oars, we can row over to the Antarctic or somewhere. No one will miss us and there will be no nasty foreigners . And the weather won't change much either... :(

Bozzy! Are you saying same europeans who told Usa how to
vote are now saying france how to vote?
Well, my fellow compatriot, in today's interdependent world i feel it's our duty to raise our voices. I'm not saying we shoul 'tell' the French how to vote. And I found it tasteless that The Guardian urged people to write to USians how to vote. I'm saying we should see beyond our borders. If you feel the Ugandans, Europeans of various countries or USians are making a mistake (according to your personal beliefs), please say so. Wonders of the internet.

This is the way that I interpreted his post and I have a feeling it is the way he wanted it done.




LOL. I never thought I'd need an interpreter! Just kidding. I hadn't realized I was shooting so high. (or punching so low)

I agree with you, the vast majority of people here are likely quite interesting and thoughtful in person. All the more fun in testing their preconceptions and ideals here.

Usually when someone reacts to me it is because I have exceeded their cognitive dissonance threshold. That is a good thing. I don't want them to adopt my ideals, I want them to examine their own.

Anyhow - I edited my original post ust a bit to help those folks along who need it.

.

Bozzy! Are you saying same europeans who told Usa how to
vote are now saying france how to vote? Wouldn't that be
expected. Also I read here that french didn't
tell Usa how to vote, so they don't deserve this pressure
from the europeans. (hope you understud my meaning)
If so, how could this become so huge issue here?

Sorry if I was way off. I either didn't get your sarcasm or
otherwise was dyslexic.
Post 91 summs it up well.

And the weather won't change much either... :(
LOL!

Well, my fellow compatriot, in today's interdependent world i feel it's our duty to raise our voices. I'm not saying we shoul 'tell' the French how to vote. And I found it tasteless that The Guardian urged people to write to USians how to vote. I'm saying we should see beyond our borders. If you feel the Ugandans, Europeans of various countries or USians are making a mistake (according to your personal beliefs), please say so. Wonders of the internet.

Actually I don't see nothing wrong saying our opinion to
nations infront of a serious issue/vote. I was just asking
BOzzy about his sarcasm. As said I think we should pay
attention to other countries and 'advise' them best to
our knoweldge. But one reason why I'm so easy to accept
this is that I don't think it matters at all... Many people
have the following attitude: "You are not telling me how
to vote/decide/drive...etc...etc..." I would want that the
worlds opinion had some influence in people but it
doesn't imo.

I'm a Brit and lots of the people in my country don't like the USA or France. Maybe, if we give everyone oars, we can row over to the Antarctic or somewhere. No one will miss us and there will be no nasty foreigners . And the weather won't change much either... :(
Antartica... COOL! heard that place was chillin man! :D

Don't go... where would the world be without someone showing us barbarians how to behave!

Actually I don't see nothing wrong saying our opinion to
nations infront of a serious issue/vote. I was just asking
BOzzy about his sarcasm. As said I think we should pay
attention to other countries and 'advise' them best to
our knoweldge. But one reason why I'm so easy to accept
this is that I don't think it matters at all... Many people
have the following attitude: "You are not telling me how
to vote/decide/drive...etc...etc..." I would want that the
worlds opinion had some influence in people but it
doesn't imo.there is a difference about Voicing a concern (I'm worried about Bush's foreign policy). giving an Opinion. (I think Kerry's Foreign policy is worse) and being critical. (Bush causes 100,000 deaths in Iraq because of OIL! Wake the F*#k up America!)

instead of 'Scare' titles, why not make a title that's in the same tone as your post.

and yeah, It took posts 19, 26, and 37 for me to see B0zzy's sarcasm...

there is a difference about Voicing a concern (I'm worried about Bush's foreign policy). giving an Opinion. (I think Kerry's Foreign policy is worse) and being critical. (Bush causes 100,000 deaths in Iraq because of OIL! Wake the F*#k up America!)

instead of 'Scare' titles, why not make a title that's in the same tone as your post.

and yeah, It took posts 19, 26, and 37 for me to see B0zzy's sarcasm...


I very much agree!

How much of an influence on the world does France have compared to the U.S.?

YES!!!! Thats the point! Someone gets it! :)

Heh heh, the idea of the French rejecting the EU constitution vote is sooooo fun, soooooo sweet that I can hardly contain my glee. It's just funny as hell.

European trade will not change if the Union becomes a superpower. The European countries will conduct their businesses as usual, imports and exports wouldn't change. The reason the US imports the most stuff is because it consumes it. The only difference that would occur from a European Superpower is another strong voice in the world. Maybe in the future there will be a EU, the US, and China? I think that A constitution will be adopted, maybe not this one but some other. I don't agree with the EU economic policies. Buying fruit and throwing it away to keep prices up? I don't like that. Give it to starving people in Sudan!

The problem is that especially the UK is to oppossed to the Union, France has always been an enthusiast. I think that eventually the Union will have a legislature with the ability to make laws as a Federation. Nationalism is the big hill to get over, especially British. Right now we need to get some respect by being united in foreign policies. No one can take a player seriously if it isn't sure what it wants. A constitution granting national powers as well as powers to a federative union is what we need. Join or die!

The EU should establish a military force for international interventions, organised like UN troops and its members should leave NATO, which is no longer an alliance that has any reason to exist. The EU now has the strongest economy there is and has the strongest combined airforce and ground force in the world. It has a huge population and is likely to expand further.

No, a new superpower is not good news for the current one having a monopoly. The US has all to fear from China and Europe becoming active in foreign policy.

European trade will not change if the Union becomes a superpower. The European countries will conduct their businesses as usual, imports and exports wouldn't change.
Right, their leasders are only doing it because they all will get to wear really cool matching jackets and get a secret handshake.

The reason the US imports the most stuff is because it consumes it.
What an odd thing to do!

The only difference that would occur from a European Superpower is another strong voice in the world.

They already have that. Oh, you said voice? I though you said odor. My bad. Well hell, a 'strong voice' thats really worth the five billion dollars the EU is costing them to develop. Maybe they can spend an extra billion or so for a super voice!

Maybe in the future there will be a EU, the US, and China?

Nah, it is much better today with the US, EU and China.

I think that A constitution will be adopted, maybe not this one but some other. I don't agree with the EU economic policies. Buying fruit and throwing it away to keep prices up? I don't like that. Give it to starving people in Sudan!
First we'll need to build a giant slingshot...

The problem is that especially the UK is to oppossed to the Union, France has always been an enthusiast.
You are right! They were pretty quick to join Germany the last time! Dang Brits spoiled that too!

I think that eventually the Union will have a legislature with the ability to make laws as a Federation. Nationalism is the big hill to get over, especially British.
Damn them and their sovereignty! Resistance is futile!

Right now we need to get some respect by being united in foreign policies.
No respect! Europe gets no Respect I tell ya! During the Civil War they supported the West! One time I went to a hotel. I asked the bellhop to handle my bag. He felt up my wife! No Respect!

No one can take a player seriously if it isn't sure what it wants. A constitution granting national powers as well as powers to a federative union is what we need. Join or die!

Hey, you can't use that line! Al Quaida already has it. Try 'resistance is futile'. No. hmm, nationalism is so difficult when all the good lines are taken. How about "Second drink half price!" Sure to get the Irish on board!

The EU should establish a military force for international interventions,
With flying pigs and everything. And it will be funded by fairy dust. We'll sell it by the barrel! It can't cost THAT much just for a few aircraft carrier battle groups. Then we'll intervene in places like, umm, Ecuador! Save the turtles!

..organised like UN troops

copying their finer things like 'Topless Tuesday' at the third world nation of choice! It is fun to fondle locals and argue about what genocide is or is not!

...and its members should leave NATO, which is no longer an alliance that has any reason to exist. The EU now has the strongest economy there is and has the strongest combined airforce and ground force in the world. With no way of getting them anywhere. And, we have to count all of our kites and helium balloons as part of the air force. And we're only counting the Chinese ground soldiers who have more than three syllables in their name. But other than that - 'We're number 1!' Wooty!

It has a huge population and is likely to expand further.
As opposed to not expanding? You guys finally licensed and regulated the conception process there? Or the death process? Which one requires a license and or has a limit/quota. This oughta be good.

No, a new superpower is not good news for the current one having a monopoly. The US has all to fear from China and Europe becoming active in foreign policy. Yeah, Europe might get radical and do something like pass a resolution!

Meanwhile, Japan is just a sideshow freak act. They are only the #2 economy in the world because of their fine watches. And TVs. And Cars. And Saki!

Meanwhile, the Napa Bordeaux I just had is really doing well. I'm havin a GOOD TIME! WoooooooO!

YES!!!! Thats the point! Someone gets it! :)
I like that! Keep it up!