NationStates Jolt Archive

Well the Lions have been annouced and so the autopsy on the decision begins. Personally I think the inclusion of 20 English players is an insult and shopws Woodward is harking back the the old days insead of forward. Mix should have been 15 each Wales and Ireland, 11 English and 3 Scots. That is if you pick on form and not on nostalgia.

The comment of "If I picked a team to play this weekend there would only be 2 English players." does not cut it. If that is the case then pick the squad accordingly.

Pah!!!


President J


:gundge:

So the warm up test against the Pumas was not so good. Woodward is going to lose us the series if he tries to recreate the World Cup squad. Those days are gone. More Celtic power is needed. Move on Clive!

President J

They're going to lose to the Bay on saturday if they play like they did against the Pumas.

Pardon my ignorance, but what the hell are you talking about?

Rugby.

Rugby.

What country and which code?

What country and which code?

He's talking about the Lions tour of New Zealand.

What country and which code?

Freulund, Matrix.

He's talking about the Lions tour of New Zealand.

I really, should know this, but by Lions you mean the English Team right?

Are we talking union or leauge

but by Lions you mean the English Team right?


Thanks to Mr Woodward, yes.

Actually the squad picked is a fair one. Yes, on form (i guess you mean 6 nations, as Back and Dalligio have been fantastic at club level this season) it is not the team many would have picked but it is a mix of experience and youth.

I really, should know this, but by Lions you mean the English Team right?

Are we talking union or leauge

Its Union, and the Lions to give them their full title are: The British and Irish Lions, which therefore includes England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

I hope they are a chellenge.
Mind you im more concerned about some of the gumbys who will get into the AB's.
Aucklanders etc...

Ive watched footage of the previous tours and it looks different ot what this tour feels like.
The Old days ruled.

So the warm up test against the Pumas was not so good. Woodward is going to lose us the series if he tries to recreate the World Cup squad. Those days are gone. More Celtic power is needed. Move on Clive!

President J

This divided atitude is going to lose us this series. It's not England vs the Celtic Nations, its the Lions. The Power of Four, and the only way we'll win in New Zealand is they play as one team.

I hope they are a chellenge.
Mind you im more concerned about some of the gumbys who will get into the AB's.
Aucklanders etc...

Ive watched footage of the previous tours and it looks different ot what this tour feels like.
The Old days ruled.

If we gel well I think, we'll do more than compete.

So far so good on the results front. 2 for 2. The Maori will be a different matter. I agree about one team under one banner etc. Could not support that idea more. It's great. However that does not preclude discussion about the selection. Woodward did not pick on the most recent form and through understandable attachment has picked players who are not at the top of their game at the moment (Greenwood has had a poor season for example).

Picking purely on form would put a lot more Welsh and Irish in the squad. The pack looked poor against Taranaki and I think the additon of the Welsh "hair bear bunch" forwards would have helped. If Wales or Ireland had finished 4th in the 6 nations and then made up half the squad there would be outrage and rightly so.

Clever selection is called for and Woodward is led too much by memories of what once was.

All the same Go Lions!!!!!!! :)

Because Matt Te Pou got given first choice for the Maori team, this is probably one of the strongest teams they've ever put out. There are at least 11 current or former allblacks in this team, plus one highly probable one in Rico Gear. The Maori lineup:

15: Leon MacDonald
14: Rico Gear
13: Rua Tipoki
12: Luke McAlister
11: Caleb Ralph
10: David Hill
9: Piri Weepu
8: Angus MacDonald
7: Marty Holah
6: Jono Gibbes (captain)
5: Sean Hohneck
4: Ross Filipo
3: Carl Hayman
2: Corey Flynn
1: Deacon Manu

Reserves:
Scott Linklater
Greg Feek
Daniel Braid
Wayne Ormond
Craig McGrath
Carlos Spencer
Neil Brew

Yeah its been a good tour so far and the maori game should be a good match but I cant wait till the Lions vs the AB's game which should be a great spectacle. I just hope the mighty AB's will be able to pull of some wins.

So far so good on the results front. 2 for 2. The Maori will be a different matter. I agree about one team under one banner etc. Could not support that idea more. It's great. However that does not preclude discussion about the selection. Woodward did not pick on the most recent form and through understandable attachment has picked players who are not at the top of their game at the moment (Greenwood has had a poor season for example).

Picking purely on form would put a lot more Welsh and Irish in the squad. The pack looked poor against Taranaki and I think the additon of the Welsh "hair bear bunch" forwards would have helped. If Wales or Ireland had finished 4th in the 6 nations and then made up half the squad there would be outrage and rightly so.

Clever selection is called for and Woodward is led too much by memories of what once was.

All the same Go Lions!!!!!!! :)


As they say Form is tempoary, Class is permanent. Also another problem the Lions have had is around the rucks as we are not clearing them out quick enough (just like England in the 6 nations) and this has allowed for teams to shut us down for big parts of the match, so I believe Woodward needs to pick forwards who will get us clean ball and let our backs to the magic!

As they say Form is tempoary, Class is permanent. Also another problem the Lions have had is around the rucks as we are not clearing them out quick enough (just like England in the 6 nations) and this has allowed for teams to shut us down for big parts of the match, so I believe Woodward needs to pick forwards who will get us clean ball and let our backs to the magic!

If anyone gets even slightly issolated or slowed down, Richie McCaw will take them apart at rucktime in the tests.

Also another problem the Lions have had is around the rucks as we are not clearing them out quick enough (just like England in the 6 nations) and this has allowed for teams to shut us down for big parts of the match, so I believe Woodward needs to pick forwards who will get us clean ball and let our backs to the magic!

Hence my comment about the Welsh forwards. The guys were great in the 6 nations.
Also not sure about the comment on class being permanent. Class belongs to the players making up the squad. World Cup Engand were awesome. The current England crop are not. Selection should reflect the current state of the game. Harking back to glory days is a huge mistake and Wales made it for almost 20 years. I hope the Lions do incredibly well but I would rate their chances higher if the right squad had been chosen..

Hence my comment about the Welsh forwards. The guys were great in the 6 nations.
Also not sure about the comment on class being permanent. Class belongs to the players making up the squad. World Cup Engand were awesome. The current England crop are not. Selection should reflect the current state of the game. Harking back to glory days is a huge mistake and Wales made it for almost 20 years. I hope the Lions do incredibly well but I would rate their chances higher if the right squad had been chosen..

I just wonder if you could choose anyone to be in the BI pack who would tou choose?

Mine would be:

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Gordon Bulloch
3. Julian White
4. Donovan O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Richard Hill
7. Martyn Williams
8. Larwance Dallgiao

I agree with 1. Gethin Jenkins, 4. O'Callaghan, 5. Paul O'Connell, and 7. Martyn Williams. I'd add 6. Ryan Jones, 8. Michael Owen, and 3. Alan Jones

I'd want Richard Hill there for sure so I might give him the nudge over Ryan Jones.

Hooker is tricky. Both Mefin Davies and Steve Thompson are a bit off and on. Byrne might keep his place, but Titterall is good too. Really miss Keith Wood.


:confused:

I agree with 1. Gethin Jenkins, 4. O'Callaghan, 5. Paul O'Connell, and 7. Martyn Williams. I'd add 6. Ryan Jones, 8. Michael Owen, and 3. Alan Jones

I'd want Richard Hill there for sure so I might give him the nudge over Ryan Jones.

Hooker is tricky. Both Mefin Davies and Steve Thompson are a bit off and on. Byrne might keep his place, but Titterall is good too. Really miss Keith Wood.


:confused:

I agree that hooker is quite a tricky position, but I would give Gordon Bulloch the nod because Thompson is trully awful at throwing and in the past year he can't even hit a barn door, Davies I don't rate either, Bryne is good at throwing but not as present as the others around the pitch, Titteral I do think is really good but he had a poor last game and hes not as good in the scrum as the others, while Bulloch is a steady line out thrower, is good around the pitch like Thompson and is a pretty good scrumager plus he had a good game against Bay of Plenty.

Also I believe Richard Hill is vital for the Lions as he does the work of two to three players in cleaning out the rucks and is vital in defence both skills which will be important against the All Blacks.

And Finally at 3. Julian White is a must as he can single handly destroy scrums with his enormus power.

If anyone gets even slightly issolated or slowed down, Richie McCaw will take them apart at rucktime in the tests.

Yeah I agree MaCaw is an awesome player and will rip the Lions apart at ruck time, hopefully Williams and Hill can nulify his threat tho! ;)

I just wonder if you could choose anyone to be in the BI pack who would tou choose?

Mine would be:

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Gordon Bulloch
3. Julian White
4. Donovan O'Callaghan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Richard Hill
7. Martyn Williams
8. Larwance Dallgiao
1) Jenkins
2) 'can't throw' Tompson
3) White
4) O'Callaghan
5) O'Connell
6) Moody
7) Corry
8) Owen

9) Peel/Cusiter
10) Jone (JW should NOT be in the squad

11) Williams
12) Henson
13) BOD
14) Lewsey
15) Murphy

16) Titteral
17) Roundtree
18) Kay
19) Hill
20) Hodgeson
21) Olly
22) shanklin

At the moment.

1) Jenkins
2) 'can't throw' Tompson
3) White
4) O'Callaghan
5) O'Connell
6) Moody
7) Corry
8) Owen

9) Peel/Cusiter
10) Jone (JW should NOT be in the squad

11) Williams
12) Henson
13) BOD
14) Lewsey
15) Murphy

16) Titteral
17) Roundtree
18) Kay
19) Hill
20) Hodgeson
21) Olly
22) shanklin

At the moment.

My backs would be:

9) Peel/Cusiter (tho Peel is just infront at the mo)
10) Jones/Wilknison( who should be in the squad, he's a word class player)

11) Shanklin/Robinson (As Shanklin as played well all year/ Robinson is at his best on the wing)
12) Henson
13) O'Driscoll
14) Murphy
15) Lewsey (i feel Lewsey is best at Fullback)

The lions should be picked on form, not class, thast why i feel some of SCW is weak in his selection-JW should have a rest.

I'm a tigers supproter and I feel georden is mroe effective at fullback-he always seems far weaker at wing and Lewsey is more comftable in the line.

The lions should be picked on form, not class, thast why i feel some of SCW is weak in his selection-JW should have a rest.

I'm a tigers supproter and I feel georden is mroe effective at fullback-he always seems far weaker at wing and Lewsey is more comftable in the line.

Good point but Lewsey has put in some really good performances from full back, tho Murphy did pick some good lines in the last game. Maybe they could interchange?

All Blacks: 91 (Sitiveni Sivivatu 4, Tana Uamga 2, Doug Howlett 2, Aaron Mauger, Mils Muliaina, Greg Somerville, Daniel Carter, Ali Williams, Rodney So'oialo, Keven Mealamu tries; Carter 6 con; Mauger 2 con)

Fiji: 0

Halftime: 50-0


I guess it was only Fiji. But then it was 'only' Bay of Plenty.

Fiji is isnt completely pathetic, hell look at their 7's reputation.

The only thing I am worried about is that Fiji has a significantly stronger armed forces than NZ, and with the talk of coups (sp?) there at the moment im just hoping they dont get pissed and take us over

They are a great 7's team but unfortuntly the All balcks nick all there best 15's players.

And they value 7's above 15's, most of there best are away at the 7's. I didn't reconise some of them.

Fiji is isnt completely pathetic, hell look at their 7's reputation.

The only thing I am worried about is that Fiji has a significantly stronger armed forces than NZ, and with the talk of coups (sp?) there at the moment im just hoping they dont get pissed and take us over

Fiji played awful, I got up to watch the second half and was appalled. They missed so many tackles I lost count (When do you normally see a lock make 50 metres in one attempt!); they put no men into the rucks and allowed New Zealand Quick Ball and numbers; and finally when they got the ball they frankly threw it way, knocked it on or lost it on the floor as they had no penetration and all the defending had sucked out their energy.

I couldn't believe what I was watching as Fiji are ranked in the top 10 in the world and they just rolled over. And this was the team that only just lost by 2 points to NZ Maori.

Anyway im hoping for a better game tommorrow! Come you Lions!

Unfortuntly we lost. Good try by BOD though...

Unfortuntly we lost. Good try by BOD though...

Yea we played like crap. All because we don't get men to the ruck! It was a shame Sheridan's punch missed as it would have sent their guy into tommorrow and would have been worth the sending off. Hopefully we can bounce back!

Yea we played like crap. All because we don't get men to the ruck! It was a shame Sheridan's punch missed as it would have sent their guy into tommorrow and would have been worth the sending off. Hopefully we can bounce back!
Hope so, still we sdhould have nicked it in the end if Matilda wasn't in the team.

(Dawson)

Their is nothing to fear about Fijian Rugby remember that game against the Maori last week?

Well turns out that was played in the Heat!
Fiji with their whole attitude to life felt the cold and went nah not going to play in this!
They didnt even bother to tackle.
Rather a shame for a team supposedly ranked in the top 8!


LIONS
Awesome first half dont really know what happened in the second as the Sattelite packed it in!-Bloody thing!

I guess the performance was satisfactory and you hung in their the whole game and then suddenly The Maori eeked out some points and had the game.
Carlos Spencer really changed things for the Maori.

Hope so, still we sdhould have nicked it in the end if Matilda wasn't in the team.

(Dawson)

Yeah, I don't know why he was picked to be on the tour at all. Peter Stringer of Ireland is much better! Plus Peel should have been playing and Dawson on the bench.

All Blacks squad is named tomorrow morning.



I'll then find out who is available for Wellington on wednesday.

Yeah, I don't know why he was picked to be on the tour at all. Peter Stringer of Ireland is much better! Plus Peel should have been playing and Dawson on the bench.
naah, Harry should have been in (ellis0. seriously, what was he playing at, he had a scrum on the 22 and then decided to go himself-mad. I know he didn't in south Africa 8 yeasr ago, but he's not going to do it again.

All Blacks squad is named tomorrow morning.



I'll then find out who is available for Wellington on wednesday.
Conrad Smith
Peri Weepu
Not sure if Lome Faatau will play though...

New Zealand Squad named!

New Zealand squad:
Backs: Daniel Carter, Rico Gear, Doug Howlett, Byron Kelleher, Leon MacDonald, Justin Marshall, Aaron Mauger, Mils Muliaina, Ma'a Nonu, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Conrad Smith, Tana Umaga (captain).

Forwards: Jerry Collins, Carl Hayman, Chris Jack, Campbell Johnstone, Sione Lauaki, Richie McCaw, Keven Mealamu, Anton Oliver, James Ryan, Rodney So'oialo, Greg Somerville, Mose Tuiali'i, Ali Williams, Tony Woodcock

What do people think of it?

New Zealand Squad named!

New Zealand squad:
Backs: Daniel Carter, Rico Gear, Doug Howlett, Byron Kelleher, Leon MacDonald, Justin Marshall, Aaron Mauger, Mils Muliaina, Ma'a Nonu, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Conrad Smith, Tana Umaga (captain).

Forwards: Jerry Collins, Carl Hayman, Chris Jack, Campbell Johnstone, Sione Lauaki, Richie McCaw, Keven Mealamu, Anton Oliver, James Ryan, Rodney So'oialo, Greg Somerville, Mose Tuiali'i, Ali Williams, Tony Woodcock

What do people think of it?

No real surprises. James Ryan and Sione Lauaki maybe.

No real surprises. James Ryan and Sione Lauaki maybe.
You forgot Johnstone,Mealamu,Tuiali'i and MacDonald

You forgot Johnstone,Mealamu,Tuiali'i and MacDonald

You're possibly right about Johnstone. MacDonald has had a pretty good season, hasn't lost too much form and gives them the chance to play Mils at centre (which they seem to be toying with). Even though Mealamu hasn't had the best season, he's managed to stay in the ABs picture, although he's droped behind Oliver. Tuiali'i has been in the AB's picture since the tour last year.

You're possibly right about Johnstone. MacDonald has had a pretty good season, hasn't lost too much form and gives them the chance to play Mils at centre (which they seem to be toying with). Even though Mealamu hasn't had the best season, he's managed to stay in the ABs picture, although he's droped behind Oliver. Tuiali'i has been in the AB's picture since the tour last year.
both Keven Mealamu and Tuiali'i -i question their ability Mealamu got in when Oliver was overlooked(or had the broken Ankle)and he wasnt crash hot back then he got talked up like Corey Flynn did last year(Who supposedly had a really good game even though he missed a tackle and stuffed up a try)

Tuial'i sure he had a good season last year in the S-12 and his Performance for Northland was awesome in 2003(didnt really play last year was on bench for Auckland) We sent a Gumby team to Europe last year and so i question his selection.

Macdonald
Never did like him He proved me right in South Africa when we were trailing South Africa and time was almost up SA put a kick into the end zone and the hooter went so what does he do? puts it down-Ref blows the Whistle Game over!

Why not try and run it out?

Its like when people chastised Gopperth for trying to run it out against the Bulls Shit pass took an option it almost paid off.

Ill always support the guy that tries than the guy that gives up before starting.

mind you im generally disgruntled.

So you don't like Macdonald, and mils gets moved to centre or gets injured.

Who do you put at fullback?

So you don't like Macdonald, and mils gets moved to centre or gets injured.

Who do you put at fullback?
Christian Cullen!

Er that is a good question im not a fan of Bar pisser as well id say Evans at Fullback-though i dont like him as well!
we wouldnt have this problem if Reihana had been treated fairly!

On a side note who remeberswhat Scotlands players did over the Leslie debacle at the World Cup?

So Woodhead has woken up a bit and sent for Ryan Jones I hear. Not a moment too soon. He could add Duncan and Adam to the ticket and we'll be getting a real pack. We could easily lose all three tests due to his choices.

BTW I've heard that the composition of the Lions reflects the money put in by the home nations. Is this true? If so it's a bloody disgrace!! Form is all that matters.

So Woodhead has woken up a bit and sent for Ryan Jones I hear. Not a moment too soon. He could add Duncan and Adam to the ticket and we'll be getting a real pack. We could easily lose all three tests due to his choices.

BTW I've heard that the composition of the Lions reflects the money put in by the home nations. Is this true? If so it's a bloody disgrace!! Form is all that matters.

Ryan Jones is a good addition but we need another Openside! Where's Johnny O'Conner he's had a brilliant season for Wasps and will keep the pressure on Williams. Hopefully we will sort out the contact area soon!

Actually I realised last night that the real surprise in the New Zealand squad is the lack of a specialist openside to backup McCaw. If he goes down, I don't know who they plan to put there.

Actually I realised last night that the real surprise in the New Zealand squad is the lack of a specialist openside to backup McCaw. If he goes down, I don't know who they plan to put there.
Rodney hes played there before and he was bloody good.
Thats the good thing about the Wellington loosies
Rods can play 7 and 8
Jerry 6 and 8
Waldrom Brothers 6(Thomas),7(scott),8(Thomas)

More concern is the #10 what happens when Carter goes off?
Positional youd say Mauger but if hes off where do you go?
Plus he hasnt Kicked all season!
4th/5th ranked Crusader kicker!
need Evans or Mehrts!

They need another real scrounger like Josh Blackie or Marty Holah. It compliments the other 2 loosies better.

They need another real scrounger like Josh Blackie or Marty Holah. It compliments the other 2 loosies better.
Your right id go Holah as Blackie was none existent in the Possibles Probables game!

Wellington team for Wednesday:
15-Shannon Paku;
14-Lome Fa'atau,
13-Ma'a Nonu,
12-Tane Tu'ipulotu,
11-Roy Kinikinilau,
10-Jimmy Gopperth,
9-Piri Weepu;
8-Thomas Waldrom,
7-Ben Herring,
6-Kristian Ormsby,
5-Ross Filipo,
4-Luke Andrews,
3-Tim Fairbrother,
2-Mahonri Schwalger,
1-Joe McDonnell (captain).

Replacements: 16-Luke Mahoney, 17-John Schwalger, 18-Kane Thompson, 19-Justin Purdie, 20-Riki Flutey, 21-Tamati Ellison, 22-Cory Jane.

Thats quite a solid NPC team. They'll give the lions midweekers a good go. Gopperth had a fucking good Super 12, but now he gets the glory of marking up against, and hopefully crippling, Johny.

But this lions Midweek side looks like the test team. Excapt for a few changes.

But this lions Midweek side looks like the test team. Excapt for a few changes.

Yeah, it looks like the Lions are using Wellington to lay down the make up of our test side. Hopefully it will rectify the ruck problem!

Wellington team for Wednesday:
15-Shannon Paku;
14-Lome Fa'atau,
13-Ma'a Nonu,
12-Tane Tu'ipulotu,
11-Roy Kinikinilau,
10-Jimmy Gopperth,
9-Piri Weepu;
8-Thomas Waldrom,
7-Ben Herring,
6-Kristian Ormsby,
5-Ross Filipo,
4-Luke Andrews,
3-Tim Fairbrother,
2-Mahonri Schwalger,
1-Joe McDonnell (captain).

Replacements: 16-Luke Mahoney, 17-John Schwalger, 18-Kane Thompson, 19-Justin Purdie, 20-Riki Flutey, 21-Tamati Ellison, 22-Cory Jane.

Thats quite a solid NPC team. They'll give the lions midweekers a good go. Gopperth had a fucking good Super 12, but now he gets the glory of marking up against, and hopefully crippling, Johny.
Its pretty much what we have had for the last two NPC's 2 Finals! W00T!

Yeah, it looks like the Lions are using Wellington to lay down the make up of our test side. Hopefully it will rectify the ruck problem!
With Neil and Cozza in then yes, pity Moodys out

Lions to win!
Anyone want to take me up on it?
$500 says they do!

Ive been playing a Fantasy Rugby game were you pick a team well i had a look at the team to play the Maori and was like sweet yeah well i picked all these lions to play and WTF i checked my scores Half the Bastards didnt play last time i trust that Website! :mad:
http://www.testrugby.com/lions05/default.asp

Lions to win!
Anyone want to take me up on it?
$500 says they do!

Ive been playing a Fantasy Rugby game were you pick a team well i had a look at the team to play the Maori and was like sweet yeah well i picked all these lions to play and WTF i checked my scores Half the Bastards didnt play last time i trust that Website! :mad:
http://www.testrugby.com/lions05/default.asp

Lol looks like you've been had! But I recomend to anyone who is thinking of signing up to pick any of the following players:

Gethin Jenkins - Has made the Lions No1 shirt his own with a man of the match display against Wellington

Julian White - Brilliant scrumager who has formed a good partnership with Jenkins in the Front Row

Paul O'Connell - A certainty in the Lions squad, great in the Set Peices and seems to be a favourite of Woodward.

Richard Hill - Though he's been out for the past year he was the only player to never be dropped by Woodward and his experience will be vital against the AB's.

Dwayne Peel - Though he is being pushed hard by Chris Cusiter, he has formed great partnerships with all the No 10's he's played with so far.

Brain O'Driscoll (BOD) - Lion's captain is a definate starter and a world class outside centre.

Josh Lewsey - Has made the 15 shirt his own with some dominant displays thus far.

NOTE: These players are unlikely to feature in both games before the 1st Test, with my bet being they will be rested for the Southlands game. Secondly this is all injury and performance permiting. All these selections are based on what I have seen so far on this Lions Tour and through watching Rugby since the last World Cup. Finally I do not accept any blame for these predictions being wrong or false as I am only human and I am sadly not Sir Clive Woodward or any meber of the Lions coaching staff; and it is your choice to follow them.

Well Otago(Formally Otako) tomorrow Lions to win by 20+
Watch out for Murphy!

Mennon, you forget to note that while Brian O'D is world class, he's looked very average to date on this tour.

Mennon, you forget to note that while Brian O'D is world class, he's looked very average to date on this tour.

Maybe, but he should come good when it counts! :) ;)

Maybe, but he should come good when it counts! :) ;)
I hopes so, Ollys looked as good as BOD so far.

Pardon my ignorance, but what the hell are you talking about?

I think it's a sport from across the pond? Am I correct? :confused:

I think it's a sport from across the pond? Am I correct? :confused:
yes Rugby, like American football but less wimpy and better.

yes Rugby, like American football but less wimpy and better.

I second that, when have you ever seen a rugby player wear a helmet?

Well i heard the Lions won again! But didn't manage to see it this time, how did peeps rate their performance?

Ryan Jones made a Head High tackle early on
But it wasnt that bad Nick Evans(Otago 10) was cutting and crouching and as he side stepped the outstreched arm went from shoulder to neck

After that He had a blinder awesome performance

Hodgson was in control again
Penalty late in the second chiped it across the field to Will Greenwood?(13) who scored tying the game at 13 a piece.

Bullock was ok
Williams(flanker)was 6 of one half a dozen of the other again.
Williams (Wing)should some ggod toe when he had the chance scored a try.
Hicks?(Wing) didnt get in the game much when he did it was mostly dropping passes.

D'Arcy should go home another shocker.

O'Gara came on late and missed a shot from in front
hes got 4 points from 7 shots now.

The tighthead was giving Otago problems in the scrum

lineout was a bit iffy When Otago contested Lion ball it was a lot closer than when the Lions contested Otago'
Thompson played well when he came on should start test.

Southland to go before the first interesting to watch...

Ryan Jones made a Head High tackle early on
But it wasnt that bad Nick Evans(Otago 10) was cutting and crouching and as he side stepped the outstreched arm went from shoulder to neck

After that He had a blinder awesome performance

Hodgson was in control again
Penalty late in the second chiped it across the field to Will Greenwood?(13) who scored tying the game at 13 a piece.

Bullock was ok
Williams(flanker)was 6 of one half a dozen of the other again.
Williams (Wing)should some ggod toe when he had the chance scored a try.
Hicks?(Wing) didnt get in the game much when he did it was mostly dropping passes.

D'Arcy should go home another shocker.

O'Gara came on late and missed a shot from in front
hes got 4 points from 7 shots now.

The tighthead was giving Otago problems in the scrum

lineout was a bit iffy When Otago contested Lion ball it was a lot closer than when the Lions contested Otago'
Thompson played well when he came on should start test.

Southland to go before the first interesting to watch...

Its a shame that Hickie, D'Arcy and O'Gara have all been poor so far. Its good to hear we have some competition in some vital areas like at Fly Half (with Hodgeson playing well), in the Back Row (with both late call ups in Easterby and Jones performing) and in the Front Row (with Matt Stevens (tighthead) having a good game). Though I do worry about who will play Inside Centre, as no one has made the position their own.

Hodgeson with Wilkinson outside him?

Hodgeson with Wilkinson outside him?

At the moment I'd go with Henson at 12, as he is an Inside Centre. But I don't know who to choose out of Hodgeson/Wilkinson/Jones. On current form it would be Hodgeson, on the form of the past year Jones but in the tried and tested Wilkinson.

This may seem random but does anyone remember a few years ago when Hodgeson broke into the England side he played at Inside Centre and Wilkinson at 10, from what I remember it lasted for 2 games and didnt work.

At the moment I'd go with Henson at 12, as he is an Inside Centre. But I don't know who to choose out of Hodgeson/Wilkinson/Jones. On current form it would be Hodgeson, on the form of the past year Jones but in the tried and tested Wilkinson.

This may seem random but does anyone remember a few years ago when Hodgeson broke into the England side he played at Inside Centre and Wilkinson at 10, from what I remember it lasted for 2 games and didnt work.
Didn't they try Hodgeson at 10 and wilkinson at 12?

Didn't they try Hodgeson at 10 and wilkinson at 12?

No Im sure it was Wilkinson at 10. But since this season they have toyed with the idea of Wilkinson at 12 as an idea.

Wilkinson was at 12 when he came on late in a game.

British and Irish Lions: Murphy; Cueto, Smith, Henson, Hickie; O'Gara, Cooper; Stevens, Titterell, Hayes; Shaw, O'Callaghan; Moody, Williams, Owen.

Replacements: Bulloch, Sheridan, Easterby, Cusiter, Hodgson, Shanklin, D'Arcy

It looks like these are now out of the running for the 1st Test. Im really suprised Henson, Shanklin, Cusiter, Hodgeson, M Williams and Murphy are going to miss out.

As Hodgeson has been the best Fly Half so far on tour, but it might be down to his ability to handle the AB's as he fell apart against France in March. Shanklin has been played out of position, but still has performed, also he could have played at 12.

Henson was seemingly the man in possesion of the 12 shirt but looks to have been edged out by Greenwood (Im a fan but hes not at his best), Wilkinson (Which will really back fire IMHO) or Horgan (Who hasnt impressed me).

Cusiter should definately be in the Test 22 as he is far better than Dawson.

M Williams has had an average tour but he would still at least be on the bench for the Tests, as back is now 36.

And Murphy has played far better than Robinson, as Robinson has been out of form since he took the England captaincy.

Wilkinson was at 12 when he came on late in a game.

He moved to 12 after Jones came on at Wellington.

Murphy was messy last game.
Robinson has this Aura about him.
I think Owen might still get in this is just a match fitness test.
Even though its so close to the first test it would be hard to believe he would back up but we will see.

Here found It:

Tuesday, 18 February, 2003, 22:03 GMT
Wilkinson makes France pay

England 25-17 France

Watch match highlights


By Bryn Palmer
BBC Sport at Twickenham





England gained revenge for last year's Paris nightmare as they launched their Six Nations campaign with a surprisingly comfortable victory over France at Twickenham.


Man-of-the-match Wilkinson kept the scoreboard ticking over
A sparkling try from the dynamic Jason Robinson and a 20-point haul from the impeccable boot of Jonny Wilkinson fully vindicated their billing as odds-on favourites.

Reigning champions France did outscore their hosts on the try count with flanker Olivier Magne, full-back Clement Poitrenaud and centre Damien Traille all breaching the red rose defence.

But a dominant performance from the England pack laid the foundations for the first step on another probable Grand Slam crusade.

Whether England can go that elusive extra step this year remains to be seen, but they maintained the momentum of autumn victories over the southern hemisphere's big three.

MATCH SUMMARY
England 25
Try: Robinson
Conv: Wilkinson 1
Pens: Wilkinson 5
Drop: Wilkinson 1

France 17
Try: Magne; Poitrenaud, Traille
Conv: Merceron


Match stats

Two French tries in the final quarter sparked a few late nerves, but the home side held out with few alarms.


Pictures from Twickenham
England started in confident fashion, Robinson taking a line-out to himself in the first minute before dancing past three French tacklers on a mazy run.

Then Dan Luger brought the capacity crowd to its feet when he pierced the French defensive line, only to be penalised for holding on to the ball in the tackle.

It was the most disappointing second-half I've experienced in an England jersey



England centre Will Greenwood


England reaction

France proceeded to dominate possession but it was England who opened the scoring after 13 minutes when Wilkinson punished some French pushing at the line-out with a long-range penalty.

His kick landed on top of the crossbar and dropped apologetically over, but if that was a touch of good fortune, England's luck swiftly turned.

Charlie Hodgson, taking the ball at first receiver, saw his clearing kick charged down by the alert Magne and the flanker beat Wilkinson to the loose ball to dive over.

Gerald Merceron converted to put France 7-3 up, but England were back in front by the 28th minute courtesy of two more superbly-struck penalties from Wilkinson.

Merceron badly miscued a shot at goal that should have regained the lead for the visitors, and England lost centurion prop Jason Leonard to injury in the 33rd minute.


England claimed the points despite failing to shine
But sparked by the irrepressible Robinson, England laid siege to the French line before the interval.

Hodgson almost redeemed his earlier error with a neat break only to spurn a try-scoring chance when he failed to spot Will Greenwood on his shoulder.

But the pressure finally told when the French defence fell offside in midfield and Wilkinson dispatched his fourth penalty for a 12-7 interval lead.

Lawrence Dallaglio came off the bench just three minutes into the second half to replace Lewis Moody, and hooker Mark Regan appeared as a temporary prop when Graham Rowntree suffered a head cut.

If we want to beat this kind of team at home we have to show better self-control



France coach Bernard Laporte


France reaction

But the changes failed to disrupt England's rhythm and after concerted pressure on the French line, Greenwood's well-timed pass sent Robinson in under the posts after 48 minutes.

Wilkinson's fifth penalty of the afternoon extended the lead to 22-7 just before the hour, and the stand-off nonchantly dropped a goal minutes later to seemingly leave England cruising.

But France finally found their attacking spark 14 minutes from time, profiting from quick ruck ball to send Poitrenaud over in the right corner.

But Merceron missed the conversion and a subsequent penalty attempt, and despite Traille crossing in the right corner, England held out in a full 12 minutes of injury time.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

England: J Robinson; D Luger, W Greenwood, C Hodgson, B Cohen; J Wilkinson, A Gomarsall; J Leonard, S Thompson, J White, M Johnson (capt), B Kay, L Moody, N Back, R Hill.

Replacements: M Regan, G Rowntree, D Grewcock, L Dallaglio, N Walshe, P Christophers, J Simpson-Daniel.

France: C Poitrenaud; A Rougerie, X Garbajosa, D Traille, V Clerc; G Merceron, F Galthie (capt); J-J Crenca, R Ibanez, C Califano, F Pelous, O Roumat, S Betsen, O Magne, I Harinordoquy.

Replacements: J-B Rue, S Marconnet, D Auradou, S Chabal, D Yachvilli, F Gelez, T Castaignede.

Referee: Paul Honiss (New Zealand)

okay-my mistake don't nite my head off.

okay-my mistake don't nite my head off.

Sorry. Didnt mean to.

Anyone up to the task of guessing Woodwards line up for the first test? Remember their are now only 23 to choose from! lol

This is my first chance to post since Otago so excuse me if I back up a bit and say "Ryan Jones, didn't I tell ya, eh eh, didn't I? Awesome or what!!!" Thanks I feel better for that.

Mennon's got a lot of good points in this thread. Hodgson could still get a test call up as he is on the bench. Martyn Willaims is not showing form but I am so dubious about Neil Back. Front row has to be Jenkins, Byrne White. (for the test that is). Ryan Jones at 6,7 or 8.

On test day I am disembarking from a ship in Southampton and will be running to find a bar (full of sailors?) to watch. If I don't get chance to post again until after then I look forward to reading all this quality stuff when I return.

Go Lions!!!!!! R O A R !!!!!!

:D

The packs easy to pick, oter than the hooker, I guess he'll pick Tompson as he knows him.

Jenkins
Tompson
White
Kay
O'collogen
Back
Hill
Cozza

The backs are harder, at scrum helf he may go for Dawson as he knows him but hoefully:

Peel
Jones

Probably wilkinson at 12, :( I would prefer shankling there but SCW will proably have

Williams/Thomas
Wilkinson
BOD
Robinson
Lewsey

The New Zealand All Blacks 22 to play the lions in the first test:


1 Tony Woodcock
2 Keven Mealamu
3 Carl Hayman
4 Chris Jack
5 Ali Williams
6 Jerry Collins
7 Richie McCaw
8 Rodney So'oialo
9 Justin Marshall
10 Dan Carter
11 Sitiveni Sivivatu
12 Aaron Mauger
13 Tana Umaga (Captain)
14 Doug Howlett
15 Leon MacDonald

Reserves: 16 Derren Witcombe, 17 Greg Somerville, 18 Jono Gibbes, 19 Sione Lauaki, 20 Byron Kelleher, 21 Mils Muliaina, 22 Rico Gear


Marshall and MacDonald manage to play their way in. Mils Muliaina hasn't done a whole lot wrong, but gives versitility off the bench.

If they and Sivivatu can play their way into the team, then what else does Rico Gear have to do? He is by far the form winger but the selectors still went with howlett.

forward pack doesn't have any real surprises, at least from my standpoint.

15-Jason Robinson (England)
14-Josh Lewsey (England)
13-Brian O'Driscoll (Ireland, captain)
12-Jonny Wilkinson (England)
11-Gareth Thomas (Wales)
10-Stephen Jones (Wales)
9-Dwayne Peel (Wales)
8-Martin Corry (England, vice-captain)
7-Neil Back (England)
6-Richard Hill (England)
5-Ben Kay (England)
4-Paul O'Connell (Ireland)
3-Julian White (England)
2-Shane Byrne (Ireland)
1-Gethin Jenkins (Wales)

Reserves: 16-Steve Thompson (England), 17-Graham Rowntree (England), 18-Danny Grewcock (England), 19-Ryan Jones (Wales), 20-Matt Dawson (England), 21-Will Greenwood (England), 22-Shane Horgan (Ireland).

14 out of the 15 right-except for a few positionsing.

I'm phycic.

All Blacks 21
Tries: Ali Williams, Sitiveni Sivivatu. Con: Dan Carter Pens: Carter 3.

Lions 3
Pen: Jonny Wilkinson


Smoked.

All Blacks 21
Tries: Ali Williams, Sitiveni Sivivatu. Con: Dan Carter Pens: Carter 3.

Lions 3
Pen: Jonny Wilkinson


Smoked.

A poor game by the Lions. The gambles didn't pay off and we got beaten at our own game. I see SCW making a few changes but not the wholesale changes people will expect. It looks like 3-0 to the AB's is an optamistic scoreline.

A poor game by the Lions. The gambles didn't pay off and we got beaten at our own game. I see SCW making a few changes but not the wholesale changes people will expect. It looks like 3-0 to the AB's is an optamistic scoreline.
A poor game? Face it, it was atrocious. The Lions only looked like scoring once (maybe twice) the entire game. They were on the defensive the entire 80 minutes. It was only luck and a couple of good tackles that stopped this game from being a total embarassment. They're lucky not to have walked off the pitch with the scoreline reading 40+ points to 3.

To quote my dad :There was only 1 mistake the Lions made. Putting Woodward in charge!"

Could not agree more. He still thinks it's 2003. Austin Healey has written that the Lions need to play more like the Welsh. Would be a lot easier if the Lions included more Welsh. I know Thomas, Williams -M and Stephen Jones were not great but they play a lot better going forward. Peel was ok and Ryan was great.

The players looked cluless and while they all need to accept responsiblility for their own mistakes the biggest whooping must go to SCW. Wrong squad. Wrong players. Wrong plan.

It's going to be a white wash (unless Umanga can dislocate Sir Clive's shoulder and we can put someone else in!)

Where's my electric cattle prod?
:gundge:

To quote my dad :There was only 1 mistake the Lions made. Putting Woodward in charge!"

Could not agree more. He still thinks it's 2003. Austin Healey has written that the Lions need to play more like the Welsh. Would be a lot easier if the Lions included more Welsh. I know Thomas, Williams -M and Stephen Jones were not great but they play a lot better going forward. Peel was ok and Ryan was great.

The players looked cluless and while they all need to accept responsiblility for their own mistakes the biggest whooping must go to SCW. Wrong squad. Wrong players. Wrong plan.

It's going to be a white wash (unless Umanga can dislocate Sir Clive's shoulder and we can put someone else in!)

Where's my electric cattle prod?
:gundge:

The Welsh Way

Its all well saying we should play the Welsh Way but their is one flaw: It's too temperamental. Just look at the France game in the 6 Nations, the Welsh were ripped apart by the French backs in the first half, but in the second they played the best 40 minuets of the whole 6 Nations. Who knows which performance would be put in?

Then there are the other slight problems. One the Welsh have played the AB's twice, using their expansive game and though they ran the AB's close they LOST both times, so whose to say that the Lions would win?

Another area is the plan's vunrability. With players like MaCaw in the AB's squad, it just takes him and some of the other forwards to slow the ball down and their make the expansive game impossible.

The other problem is the weather. Without some sublime handling the Welsh game plan would have again been stifiled, as the rain make the bal resemble a bar of Soap (especially in the Lions hands).

SCW Way

Then their is SCW tactics. Its not that he still thinks its 2003, it's that the tactics he uses have worked before unlike the Welsh's against the AB's.

The problems are that the Forwards did not put down the solid base that was need in the Scrums, Lineouts and Rucks, this therefore did not help Peel, Jones and Wilkinson. (Note: With any style of Rugby domiance of these areas are key).

Secondly that both Jones and Wilkinson kicked poorly, with the ball either going straight to the AB back three or not finding touch when needed.

Thirdly you generally need the ball to be able to attack and create penalties, therefore the defencesive measures put in place as part of the tactics did have its use in preventing a 50-3 thrashing.

And Finally there is circumstances such as Luck (Good and Back), the fact we lost our captain in the first minute and then one of the other leaders on the pitch (R.Hill) before 20 minutes, would have scuppered any plan we would have had.

SCW Appointment

Its all well moaning about this, but who else could have done the Job? Considering this was choosen in 2004, here are your candidates:

Woodward (Eng)- Just won the WC with England
Hansen (Wal)- Leaving to join the AB's
O'Sullivan (Ire)- WC Quater Finals, has done a steady Job at Ireland since his appointment.
Williams (Sco)- Newly Appointed
Mcgeechan(Sco)- Poor WC seems to have lost the touch of old though has lead 2 Victourious Lions Tours.

Now who would have you picked?

Are the Lion all Ireland or just northern Ireland?
Not sure due to Ireland being separate

Are the Lion all Ireland or just northern Ireland?
Not sure due to Ireland being separate

In RU Ireland is all one nation! The Lions are the United Kingdom and Irish Lions

I meant to put this in the other day, but here are some stats for the match:


Tackles Made:

All Blacks:
Richie McCaw: 12
Daniel Carter: 8
Carl Hayman: 6

Lions:
Jonny Wilkinson: 10
Paul O'Connel: 9
Stephen Jones: 9

Clean outs:

All blacks:
Richie McCaw: 16
Ali Williams: 16
Keven Mealamu: 16

Lions:
Paul O'Connel: 17
Neil Back: 13
Geinth Jenkins: 12

Lineouts won:

All Blacks: 17 (8 steals)
Lions: 13 (2 steals)

Show what i mean, complete domination at the rucks and mauls.

Manawatu 6 (6)
Pens: Hargreaves (2)

Lions 109 (38)
Tries: S Williams (5), Corry, Murphy, Robinson, Hodgson, Smith, Back, D'Arcy, O'Gara (2), Cueto (2), Cooper
Cons: Hodgson (7), O'Gara (5)

A complete miss match, the only comparison is a match between my Home Town Team of Nottingham (England National League One) and the AB's, so not really a test. Though it would have been disappointing if we didn't reach the ton.

So waht changes do you see the Lions making for Staurday?

My squad would be:

Forwards

1 Gethin Jenkins
2 Steve Thompson (after Bryne's poor display)
3 Julian White
4 Paul O'Connell
5 Donohan O'Callahagn (should have been in the XV from the start)
6 Simon Easterby (Played his way in)
7 Neil Back/Martin Williams (not really sue)
8 Ryan Jones

Half Backs

9 Dwayne Peel
10 Johnny Wilkinson (Well it is Woodward picking, also with Henson gives R/L combo)

Backs

11 Shane Williams
12 Gavin Henson
13 Ollie Smith (Very Underatted Player, Best Centre in England)
14 Gareth Thomas
15 Josh Lewsey (Playing in his best position)

Let me help you...

Forwards

1 Gethin Jenkins
2 any one but Steve Thompson (he throws like a girl)
3 Julian White
4 Paul O'Connell
5 some one english
6 ditto
7 Neil Back
8 see 5+6

Half Backs

9 Dwayne Peel
10 Johnny Wilkinson

Backs

11 Charlotte Church
12 Gavin Henson
13 Ollie Smith
14 Jason Robinson
15 Josh Lewsey

In RU Ireland is all one nation! The Lions are the United Kingdom and Irish Lions

British and Irish Lions

Manawatu 6 (6)
Pens: Hargreaves (2)

Lions 109 (38)
Tries: S Williams (5), Corry, Murphy, Robinson, Hodgson, Smith, Back, D'Arcy, O'Gara (2), Cueto (2), Cooper
Cons: Hodgson (7), O'Gara (5)

A complete miss match, the only comparison is a match between my Home Town Team of Nottingham (England National League One) and the AB's, so not really a test. Though it would have been disappointing if we didn't reach the ton.

All that does is sadly show the current difference between the first and second divisions of the NPC in New Zealand. The new teams in the new setup that is coming soon are going to take a few poundings before they are competitive against the top NZ provincial sides.

The allblacks for the second test:

1-Tony Woodcock, 2-Keven Mealamu, 3-Carl Hayman, 4-Chris Jack, 5-Ali Williams, 6-Jerry Collins, 7-Richie McCaw, 8-Rodney So'oialo, 9-Byron Kelleher, 10-Dan Carter, 11-Sitiveni Sivivatu, 12-Aaron Mauger, 13-Tana Umaga (Captain), 14-Rico Gear, 15-Mils Muliaina

Reserves: 16-Derren Witcombe, 17-Greg Somerville, 18-Jono Gibbes, 19-Sione Lauaki, 20-Justin Marshall, 21-Ma'a Nonu, 22-Leon MacDonald

My backs would be:

9) Peel/Cusiter (tho Peel is just infront at the mo)
10) Jones/Wilknison( who should be in the squad, he's a word class player)

11) Shanklin/Robinson (As Shanklin as played well all year/ Robinson is at his best on the wing)
12) Henson
13) O'Driscoll
14) Murphy
15) Lewsey (i feel Lewsey is best at Fullback)

Who are Lewsey's contemporaries from around the world... IE does De Wet Barry play the same position... or Mat Rogers... or Fredrick Mickalak (the French guy)?

I'm fairly new to rugby... I cheered for England in the 2003 WC victory (man, wilkinson was awesome) and am cheering for the Lions on this NZ tour...

how could England have fallen off so much in two years, from being hands-down the best team in the world (they beat Australia in Australia, which can't be easy) to being the 5th or 6th best team... especially when it seems (to my eye) that they have almost the same players they had two years ago. Is it Wilkinson's injuries and lack of fitness... does he mean so much to that team?

Who are Lewsey's contemporaries from around the world... IE does De Wet Barry play the same position... or Mat Rogers... or Fredrick Mickalak (the French guy)?

I'm fairly new to rugby... I cheered for England in the 2003 WC victory (man, wilkinson was awesome) and am cheering for the Lions on this NZ tour...

how could England have fallen off so much in two years, from being hands-down the best team in the world (they beat Australia in Australia, which can't be easy) to being the 5th or 6th best team... especially when it seems (to my eye) that they have almost the same players they had two years ago. Is it Wilkinson's injuries and lack of fitness... does he mean so much to that team?

To answer your question Lewsey Plays at Fullback (Number 15), therefore his contemperies are:

Matt Rodgers and Chris Latham (Aus)
Mils Muliana and MacDonald (NZ)
Nicolas Brusque and Clement Poitrenaud (Fra)
Percy Montgomery (SA)
Jason Robinson (Eng)
Gareth Thomas (Wal)
Chris Patterson (Scot)
Geordan Murphy and Gordon Dempsey (Ire)

While to answer the England question, I believe that they peaked in the Final Six Nations 2003 Grand Slam Decider against Ireland were they tore Ireland apart. So by the time they got to the WC Final they were Past their best already.

But Post World Cup they have had these problems:

1. Their tactics rely on a strong organised defence, a good platform from the Set Peice and Good Half Back Combination. These tactics therefore limit the Backs and therefore Attacking oppurtunities, and when both Ireland and France worked the England Team out in the 2004 Six Nations England had no response. Also having been found out, most teams in the World have adapted to the tactics of France and Ireland, which is quick Backs spreading the play with quick ball from the rucks. (Note this has been used by the AB's for years)
The best example of how this has worked is with Wales who won the Grand Slam using these tactics.

2. Retierments, Injury and Loss of Form.
Since the WC the Retired list is:

Martin Johnson (Second Row, Talismatic Captain)
Jason Leonard (Veteran Prop)
Neil Back (Back Row Scrunger)
Larwance Daliagio (Number 8 Inspirer)
Mark Regan (Backup Hooker)
Mike Catt (Inspired Performances against Wales and France, Centre)

While the Injured List (all have been injured at some time of the Past Two Years):

Johnny Wilkinson (Yet to play for England since WC)
Will Greenwood (WC Team creative Edge)
Mike Tindall (Has not played for England since WC)
Jason Robinson
Iain Balshaw (Limited to 2 games since World Cup)
Richard Hill (The Workhouse of the WC Team, Never dropped by SCW)
Trevor Woodman (Yet to play for England since WC)
Phil Vickery (Yet to play for England since WC)
Ben Cohen (A Handful of Sub Apperances)

Finally Loss of form:

Jason Robinson
Will Greenwood
Johnny Wilkinson
Ben Cohen
Ben Kay
Joe Worsley
Matt Dawson
Richard Hill

3. And finally Luck, which England have not had a lot of recently especially in the games against Wales, Ireland and France in the 6 Nations this year, though we did also play poorly but abit of luck hear and there could have seen some different results.

But their is some hope......

Wilkinson is back from injury, Hodgson is a brilliant, though tempermental, as back up, Olie Smith looks to be a World Class centre, Cueto has scored 8 tries in 8 internationals so far, Ellis looks to be developing into a good Scrum Half. Also hopefully under Robinson England can play with the speed and pace like they did between 2000-2003.

England also strated trying to play 10 man rugby and let there backs die of frostbite. Unfortuntly they arn't getting quick ball at all.

England are actually thinking something of the Manawatu performance.

"That performance was so good we could have beaten anyone."

England are actually thinking something of the Manawatu performance.

"That performance was so good we could have beaten anyone."

As i said before it was a complete mismatch and thereforely really only a moral booster after the diabolical of Saturday.

Let me help you...

Forwards

1 Gethin Jenkins
2 any one but Steve Thompson (he throws like a girl)
3 Julian White
4 Paul O'Connell
5 some one english
6 ditto
7 Neil Back
8 see 5+6

Half Backs

9 Dwayne Peel
10 Johnny Wilkinson

Backs

11 Charlotte Church
12 Gavin Henson
13 Ollie Smith
14 Jason Robinson
15 Josh Lewsey

Charlotte Church would be good on the wing! lol

She'd ease through the AB defence as she scares them all away with her singing ;) .

England are actually thinking something of the Manawatu performance.

"That performance was so good we could have beaten anyone."


Manawatu being a fully amateur middle of the road second division team. Playing the All Blacks is a weeeeeee bit different. Hell, even playing a first division team like canterbury would be a lot different.

Silly poms, heh.

What do you think of the Lions team, two points, WHAT THE HELLS ROBINSON DOING IN THERE!!!!! And WHY IS THOMAS PlAYING AT OUTSIDE CENTRE!!!! I think this proves that Robinson is not going to be droped unless injured even where we could have a specielist OC in there and a great, in form winger...

What do you think of the Lions team, two points, WHAT THE HELLS ROBINSON DOING IN THERE!!!!! And WHY IS THOMAS PlAYING AT OUTSIDE CENTRE!!!! I think this proves that Robinson is not going to be droped unless injured even where we could have a specielist OC in there and a great, in form winger...

Agreed Thomas should take Robinson's place and we could put Olie Smith at OC or maybe Horgan. The I think the pack looks alot stronger than in the First Test except for Thompson (hopefully he can hit the barn door), I would have choosen Bulloch instead.

Agreed. Okay so Robinson looked good against Manawatu but comeon, I could have looked good against them

Agreed. Okay so Robinson looked good against Manawatu but comeon, I could have looked good against them

I could have scored a try, with my eyes closed lol! Plus it's only Robinson's 2nd this year!

NZ 48-18 Lions

I think I have just witnessed one of the best performances ever from one of the greatest teams ever. The current AB team have proved that they are a truly great side and that they can play great rugby wherever and with whatever conditions.

And you just have to look in the Strength in depth of their squad: (team that played in normal, with repalcements who could fill the position).

1-Tony Woodcock
2-Keven Mealamu Oliver, Witcombe
3-Carl Hayman Sommerville
4-Chris Jack
5-Ali Williams Gibbes
6-Jerry Collins Lauaki
7-Richie McCaw Holah
8-Rodney So'oialo
9-Byron Kelleher Marshall, Weepu
10-Dan Carter
11-Sitiveni Sivivatu Rocococo
12-Aaron Mauger Nonu
13-Tana Umaga (Captain) Smith
14-Rico Gear Howlett
15-Mils Muliaina MacDonald

The only weakness is if Carter gets injured though Mauger could move to Fly Half. I predict that if this team is kept together until the 2007 WC, New Zealand will be clear favourites.

But I do have some quibbles about the AB's. One is off the ball incidents they took out Lions players 6-7 times today, but the Lions only recieved one penalty and conceded 2 tries from the indesgretion. If this had been reserved the score would have been alot different, as they came at vital stages of the match and cards could have been given out. Therefore I see this as the current sides only weakness is disipline and that a side like SA or Argentina could really frustrate the AB's and deprive them of their full 15.

So that's that then. A dead rubber in auckland next week.

So that's that then. A dead rubber in auckland next week.

You say "dead" but I thought you AB's would be up for a 3-0 win!

You say "dead" but I thought you AB's would be up for a 3-0 win!


Well one would hope so, but they needed a real kick up the backside to get going tonight, and luckily the lions spent the first 10 minutes doing that. There are a few fringe allblacks in the midweek auckland side as well, so that should be a good match.

Well one would hope so, but they needed a real kick up the backside to get going tonight, and luckily the lions spent the first 10 minutes doing that. There are a few fringe allblacks in the midweek auckland side as well, so that should be a good match.

Which ones? I know Roccoco is playing.

Which ones? I know Roccoco is playing.


Saimone Taumoepeau
Brad Mika
Jerome Kaino
Daniel Braid
Steve Devine
Sam Tuitupou
Ben Atiga
Joe Rokocoko

They've all played for the allblacks or come close to it.

Saimone Taumoepeau
Brad Mika
Jerome Kaino
Daniel Braid
Steve Devine
Sam Tuitupou
Ben Atiga
Joe Rokocoko

They've all played for the allblacks or come close to it.

Cool the midweek team will have their work cut out.

Not really only Devine at halfback
Rokocoko and Mika are worth anything the rest are gumbys!

Agreed. Okay so Robinson looked good against Manawatu but comeon, I could have looked good against them
Yeah well have you being playing X Box as a buildup to the game?
They did!LOL

Umaga 'out of credit'

All Black Captain Tana Umaga has redeemed himself from a week of controversy by phoning crocked Lions rugby captain Brian O'Driscoll to apologise for the 'spear tackle' that ended his tour, and revealed to O'Driscoll he would have called sooner but his mobile was 'out of credit'.

Umaga said he was 'real sorry' about O'Driscoll's injury, but reminded his opposite that rugby was a contact sport and that accidents happen, and if he didn't like it he shouldn't go trying to get the ball when the All Blacks want it.

O'Driscoll expressed his forgiveness to Umaga, explaining he thought the game was supposed to be played under touch rugby rules. He said it was 'swell' of Umaga to call.

The apology has started a flood of similar calls between former rugby foes. Rua Tipoki of NZ Maori has revealed his relief at receiving a call from Lion Gordon D'Arcy to apologise for the late spear tackle he executed on the centre during the Lions match against NZ Maori earlier in the month.

A tearful Tipoki said "Bro, it's about bloody time,eh. I've been sat by the phone for weeks waiting for that neho to call. He could have bloody killed me, the bastard!".

Maori coach Matt Te Pou said he had intended to take a tape of the D'Arcy incident to the press after the Lions v Maori match to protest at the incident, but chose not to "cos only a real f*ckin whinging loser would do that sort of sh*t eh".

Wayne Shelford has confirmed a call from French Rugby Federation officials, apologising for the impromptu removal of his left testicle by the French forward pack in 1989. Johan Le Roux and Sean Fitzpatrick were seen today holding hands in an Auckland park, the pair apparently having made up for their differences from 1994 when Le Roux bit Fitzpatrick's left ear.

Le Roux endorsed the new trend of apologising for every single physical act in a game of rugby. The former Springbok prop said that bottling up all that guilt over the years had made him feel all bad inside and it was good to get it out and reveal his true feelings for Fitzpatrick, who he described as his hero.

Danny Grewcock admitted he "had a bit of ringing round to do".

Richard Loe's phone has been engaged all day.

Apparently NZ Search and Rescue, at the behest of Clive Woodward, has been out looking for Jason Robinson. He was last seen running out onto the field at Westpac Stadium in Wellington at approximately 7pm NZT.

He was reportedly seen a couple of times after that over the next 80 minutes but no other player can say exactly when or where.

The general consensus among medical experts is that Robinson is suffering from an acute fear of rugby balls - gilbertphobia. Hence him not being seen anywhere near the ball over the entire game or kicking/throwing it away as soon as it came near him.

Police have asked the public to be on the lookout for him and warned them not to approach him if they are carrying any rugby paraphernalia - especially rugby balls - as they're afraid it may cause him to run at full speed the other way.

All Blacks Have Problem Identifying Ball


A top Auckland Eye Specialist has today sent out a warning to all Lions players that many of the All Black's keep have problems seeing the ball. After studying indepth footage of the First and Second Test Matches, the anonomus soucre claims that due to this rare condition known as Takethemanofftheballitus the All Black players have been prone to take their oppenents down as if a ball was their.

The condition is seeming caused by the need for a player to stamp his (or her) authority on the game and therefore was prevalent during the opening skirmishes of the Second Test.

This claim though has been refuted by the All Black captain, Tana Umaga. "The ball was there, I swear."

Another culprit, Dan Carter said: "Me and my number 8 just wanted a nice chat and he barged straight into us."

So far the Lions camp have yet to put a spin on this story and are waiting for Allistar Campbell to work his magic. Though rumors suggest that Props Julian White and Gethin Jenkins have challanged their opposite numbers to a Tag Team Match, which will provide pre-match entertainment for the third and Final Test. And that for the Third Test Prince William is in line to replace Gavin Henson at 12, as he has been spotted showing of his skills at a recent Lions Training Session.

So a message to the Lions Camp, no matter how far away from the ball you may be your not far enough.

In a recent revelation sir Clive Woodward has today announced that he 'got it worng'. Though not admitting his team was beaten, saying that 'the score isn't the only factor', 'we won the fights' an d most mystifyingly, 'the seris iosn't over yet.'

Seeing as this was the 2nd loss in the serise of three it is still unclear what he meant by the comment. Even stranger he also claimed that ball was the wrong shape, that 'they keapt handballing', that several 'fouls' incuding 'obstruction' where carried out on his players, that the ref keapt giving the oppersition 3 goals when they skyied the ball 'over the bar'. he concluded that 'they didn't paly it like a football matgch, it could have been a rigby game!'

Woodward Loses The Plot

After a second defeat Woodward has opted for drastic changes to the Lions side, drafting in 16 new players, the changes see Prince William slip in at 12, John Prescott at 1, 2 and 3, David Beckham replaces Wilkinson at 10 and Amir Kahn starts at 13 to counter the threat of Umaga.

Also Sir Clive has completly changed the Back Row brining in Lennox Lewis, Audley Harrison and Ricky Hatton. Sir Clive said at the Press confrence that he was looking to take the AB's full on and that his team would last the full 2 Rounds.

Whie Gandalf is also set to make his debut at Left Wing replacing the "Lost" Jason Robinson, being joined at the back by Paul Collingwood and Andrew Flintoff. Finally the Political Heavy Weights of Charles Kennedy and Micheal Howard fill the Lock positions and Tony Blair fits in at Scrum Half.

Here is the Full Squad:

Forwards:

1 John Prescott
2 Ditto
3 Ditto
4 Charles Kennedy
5 Micheal Howard
6 Audley Harrison
7 Lennox Lewis
8 Ricky Hatton

Backs:

9 Tony Blair.
10 David Beckham
11 Andrew Flintoff
12 Prince William
13 Amir Kahn
14 Gandalf
15 Paul Collingwood

From the make up of the team one can only guess that he is rellying on Precott to engulf the scrum, Kennedy and Howard to magic the ball from the rucks, the Back Row to beat the AB's into Oblivion, Tony Blair to snipe round the rucks, Beckham for his long crossfield kicking, William to dazzle with is Princely charm, Kahn to give Umaga a fight, Flintoff to ruff up the AB backs, Gandalf to weave his magic and Collingwood to secure the high ball.

And there we have it for the tour matches. The lions score another unconvincing win, this time over Auckland. That being said, although they have failed to fully stamp their authority over anyone but the second division side manawatu, they have still managed to win all their tour games.

For the third and final test, the lions have choped and changed their backline again, while the All Blacks have been struck by a stack of injuries, with Leon Macdonald and Richie McCaw being the latest to drop out.

The AB's team now looks like this:

1-Tony Woodcock
2-Keven Mealamu
3-Greg Somerville
4-Chris Jack
5-Ali Williams
6-Jerry Collins
7-Rodney So'oialo
8-Sione Lauaki
9-Byron Kelleher
10-Luke McAlister
11-Sitiveni Sivivatu
12-Tana Umaga
13-Conrad Smith
14-Rico Gear
15-Mils Muliaina

RESERVES:
16-Derren Witcombe
17-Campbell Johnstone
18-James Ryan
19-Marty Holah/Jono Gibbs
20-Justin Marshall
21-Nick Evans
22-Doug Howlett

Lions squad is still rubbish, a few improvement but, I have to say this, GREENWOOD AT INSIDE CENTRE, CLIVE ARE YOU MAD!!!!

Lions squad is still rubbish, a few improvement but, I have to say this, GREENWOOD AT INSIDE CENTRE, CLIVE ARE YOU MAD!!!!

Smith and Umaga are 2 of the best defenders NZ has to offer, so maybe he's trying to target McAlister on the inside.

Smith and Umaga are 2 of the best defenders NZ has to offer, so maybe he's trying to target McAlister on the inside.
But why with greenwood, why not Horgan?

Or it my be that he feels he has no other options, though I would have gone with Horgan.

At Least Robinson isnt playing!

At Least Robinson isnt playing!
yep

You've probably all heard this one by now but I'll chuck it in anyway just in case:


There was an emergency scare at the Lions training today in Auckland. A white powder was found by one of the players, and Sir Clive immediately had the pitch evacuated. An extensive investigation followed, and it was determined that it was actually the white paint of the try line.

During training, Sir Clive asked the players to get into their usual positions. Everyone headed behind the goalposts, waiting for a conversion to be kicked.

Just one more to wrap up the tour if everyone else has lost interest:

All Blacks 38
Tries: Conrad Smith, Ali Williams, Tana Umaga 2, Rico Gear. Cons: Luke McAlister 4. Pen: McAlister

Lions 19
Try: Lewis Moody. Con: Stephen Jones. Pens: Stephen Jones 4


Mr Kaplin got a bit excited with his yellow cards, but other than that you can't really argue with 3-zip.

Bring on the tri-nations.

Lets see how you kiwis do when your up against 15 Welshmen in the Autumn:


BRING IT ON!

Lets see how you kiwis do when your up against 15 Welshmen in the Autumn:


BRING IT ON!


Well your 3 wins all time against the all blacks (out of 21 games) do make you the second most successful of the four lions nations all time against the ABs. I guess you would enjoy getting your first win in 52 years though.

Yeah, should be good. Thanks

Aye it chould be.