NationStates Jolt Archive

Intelligent design creationism is this:

Things evolved. But they evolved because god designed every natural and scientific law.

Intelligent design creationism believes that the scientific laws, natural selection, evolution, etc. probably happened, but they weren't random events. They were events caused by god.

Whether we're finished evolving is a different issue. Basically:

If you do not believe in evolution, you are not an intelligent design creationist.

STOP STEALING THE LABEL!

Can a catholic who believes in evolution be labelled as such?

They were events caused by god. Untrue. ID merely claims that we were formed with the help of "external sources", this could mean giant green aliens, pink unicorns or a multi-dimensional superbug "designed" us.

Exactly.

There's nothing in evolution that's against religion (unless you take the Bible literally). Any argument about God over nature is just metaphysics that neither science nor religion can solve.

I don't think you've got it quite right. You describe theistic evolution. Intelligent Design is just creation science in disguise. They still use all the same bogus arguments.

Getaway: Yes, a catholic who believes in evolution could be labeled as such.

Falhaar, N Am. Allnce, JRV, ID Creationism has existed for hundreds of years. Modern Creation 'Science' idiots have no rights to the phrase. Yes, it is theistic evolution, but it was originally called intelligent design creationism.

And the founders of the theory were talking about god, when they said that there must be an intelligent designer.

Intelligent Design is total BS. Why? Because men have nipples.

Getaway: Yes, a catholic who believes in evolution could be labeled as such.

Falhaar, N Am. Allnce, JRV, ID Creationism has existed for hundreds of years. Modern Creation 'Science' idiots have no rights to the phrase. Yes, it is theistic evolution, but it was originally called intelligent design creationism.

And the founders of the theory were talking about god, when they said that there must be an intelligent designer.

Yeah but what I'm saying is that the correct term is theistic evolution... 'evolution guided by God'. Which is the official line taken by the Roman Catholic Church.

Intelligent Design is total BS. Why? Because men have nipples.
correct me if i'm wrong but don't the nipples develop before sex is determined? Then when sex is determined hormones take course in said way

Yeah but what I'm saying is that the correct term is theistic evolution... 'evolution guided by God'. Which is the official line taken by the Roman Catholic Church.
whatever its called i think it describes my take on things reasonably well

correct me if i'm wrong but don't the nipples develop before sex is determined? Then when sex is determined hormones take course in said way
Shut up.

Intelligent design creationism is this:

Things evolved. But they evolved because god designed every natural and scientific law.

Intelligent design creationism believes that the scientific laws, natural selection, evolution, etc. probably happened, but they weren't random events. They were events caused by god.

Whether we're finished evolving is a different issue. Basically:

If you do not believe in evolution, you are not an intelligent design creationist.

STOP STEALING THE LABEL!

Ha ha! Stealing the label? Ha.

Anyway, I support the idea of evolution, but not in the sense that you might think. As I've already said, I believe that genetic mutation in order to fulfil adaptation according to changing environments (a bit wordy, wan't that?), is, by all means, possible. However, I fiercely attack the idea that such adaptation is the reason that we exist today, even if you were to say that God was the one who put the evolution in place.

Seven days, my friend, seven days.

Shut up.
Ooooh, you just got told, Pongoar! what now!

Shut up.
I don't see that as correcting me or bringing anything to the thread so why make that idiotic statement?

Seven days, my friend, seven days.

Ditto.

Sheesh, this is awesome music, it is very happy-ifying. Is anyone else listening to Mozart (Symphony No. 35, by any chance?)?

Ditto.
Ha ha! YES!!!
I have finally found someone with the same viewpoints!!!

Exactly.

There's nothing in evolution that's against religion (unless you take the Bible literally). Any argument about God over nature is just metaphysics that neither science nor religion can solve.

Last post, tired, hot and have to do hw. The pope said most of the stuff in the bibal are metaphorical so that includes most(if not all) of genisis which has the creation as in 7 day event (acutually 6 but who is counting :confused: ). Now stop debating unless you are christen whom i dont want to insult, tis too easy and I have afflictaions right now(as mentioned above), and flaming=bad :(

I don't see that as correcting me or bringing anything to the thread so why make that idiotic statement?
You just got told AGAIN, Pongoar!!! WHAT NOW!!!

"That was a burn, dude. Dude, you just got burned. Burned, dude, burned."
-Donut, Red vs. Blue

I don't see that as correcting me or bringing anything to the thread so why make that idiotic statement?
If I'm not mistaken, then I think he was attempting to use that sort of I-said-something-dumb-and-got-proven-wrong-and-am-now-trying-to-cover-it-up-by-sounding-hurt voice.

Yeah but what I'm saying is that the correct term is theistic evolution... 'evolution guided by God'. Which is the official line taken by the Roman Catholic Church.

Ahh. C'mon people. Can't we all just get along and bash the creation scientists?

Last post, tired, hot and have to do hw. The pope said most of the stuff in the bibal are metaphorical so that includes most(if not all) of genisis which has the creation as in 7 day event (acutually 6 but who is counting :confused: ). Now stop debating unless you are christen whom i dont want to insult, tis too easy and I have afflictaions right now(as mentioned above), and flaming=bad :(

Ay! Ayayayayayay! (What kind of exclamation is that?)
The Bible makes it quite clear when it is to be taken metaphoricall, say, "he shall crush the serpent's head," however, when it wants to be literal it is JUST as clear. Say, when Genesis says that God made the ENTIRE flippin' universe in six blinkin' days.

Ahh. C'mon people. Can't we all just get along and bash the creation scientists?
I'm all for it.

HUNDRETHPOSTHUNDRETHPOSTHUNDRETHPOST.

I'm all for it.

HUNDRETHPOSTHUNDRETHPOSTHUNDRETHPOST.

That's mean.

THREEHUNDREDANDFIFTYFIRSTPOSTTHREEHUNDREDANDFIFTYFIRSTPOSTTHREEHUNDREDANDFIFTYFIRSTPOST!!!

If I'm not mistaken, then I think he was attempting to use that sort of I-said-something-dumb-and-got-proven-wrong-and-am-now-trying-to-cover-it-up-by-sounding-hurt voice.
To be fair i have only been told this info and don't know it for fact. I'd be happy to take it back if someone could prove me wrong. i don't think "shut up" counts tho ;)

If I'm not mistaken, then I think he was attempting to use that sort of I-said-something-dumb-and-got-proven-wrong-and-am-now-trying-to-cover-it-up-by-sounding-hurt voice.

He told the guy to shut up, HOW IS THAT PROVING HIM WRONG!!!

Ha ha! Stealing the label? Ha.

Anyway, I support the idea of evolution, but not in the sense that you might think. As I've already said, I believe that genetic mutation in order to fulfil adaptation according to changing environments (a bit wordy, wan't that?), is, by all means, possible. However, I fiercely attack the idea that such adaptation is the reason that we exist today, even if you were to say that God was the one who put the evolution in place.

Seven days, my friend, seven days.

Pray tell, how long is one of God's days?

Is it measured by how long it takes the sun to go around the earth? Oh, wait, it doesn't.

To be fair i have only been told this info and don't know it for fact. I'd be happy to take it back if someone could prove me wrong. i don't think "shut up" counts tho ;)
I do not believe that current technologies allow us to figure if a baby's nipples are developed before or AFTER the genitals are.

He told the guy to shut up, HOW IS THAT PROVING HIM WRONG!!!
It wasn't thas what he is saying :)

Ahh. C'mon people. Can't we all just get along and bash the creation scientists?

Now that I can agree to ;)

I particulary dislike a fellow called Dr. Henry Morris. I kinda read through one of his books. What a load of crap...

Ay! Ayayayayayay! (What kind of exclamation is that?)
The Bible makes it quite clear when it is to be taken metaphoricall, say, "he shall crush the serpent's head," however, when it wants to be literal it is JUST as clear. Say, when Genesis says that God made the ENTIRE flippin' universe in six blinkin' days.
Hey, check something interesting - Biblical scholars have gone back through the chronolgies in the Bible and dated the creation event to occurring in 4004 BC at 9 AM (Anyone who's read Inherit the Wind here? I, ironically, was Brady in a performance of it). Scientists have dated rocks, soil samples, and even human remains to being well older than that. I'm pretty sure God didn't mean us to take every passage in the Bible exactly as it comes. It makes logical sense that evolution would be God's tool in creation. I mean, the account of the creation of animals is not only staggered, but in a similar order to the way things actually evolved.

Pray tell, how long is one of God's days?

Is it measured by how long it takes the sun to go around the earth? Oh, wait, it doesn't.
God said 'day' to Moses. Of course, at the time, Moses knew how long a day was (24 hours, for you geniuses out there), and, thus, that's why God said seven days.
He could have said "two and one-third ressurection periods," but that would not be easy to follow. And, thus, God said 'day.'

He told the guy to shut up, HOW IS THAT PROVING HIM WRONG!!!
No, the other guy proved him wrong and "shut up" is a defense mechanism.

Edit: I was trying to point out that the first guy was missing the joke in the second one's rote response.

Ay! Ayayayayayay! (What kind of exclamation is that?)
The Bible makes it quite clear when it is to be taken metaphoricall, say, "he shall crush the serpent's head," however, when it wants to be literal it is JUST as clear. Say, when Genesis says that God made the ENTIRE flippin' universe in six blinkin' days.

that's not clear at all. there's nothing that you quoted that indicates whether or not the quotes should be taken metaphorically

Pray tell, how long is one of God's days?

Is it measured by how long it takes the sun to go around the earth? Oh, wait, it doesn't.

^Best. Comment. Ever!

That's mean.

THREEHUNDREDANDFIFTYFIRSTPOSTTHREEHUNDREDANDFIFTYFIRSTPOSTTHREEHUNDREDANDFIFTYFIRSTPOST!!!

Isn't one hundred some kind of milestone to you too?

No, the other guy proved him wrong and "shut up" is a defense mechanism.
The opposition seems to have lost their tounge anyway ;)

Isn't one hundred some kind of milestone to you too?
Congrats with 100. May there be many more :D
Congrats with 350. May there be many more :D
So long as neither of you overtake me ;) ;) :D J/K

God said 'day' to Moses. Of course, at the time, Moses knew how long a day was (24 hours, for you geniuses out there), and, thus, that's why God said seven days.
He could have said "two and one-third ressurection periods," but that would not be easy to follow. And, thus, God said 'day.'

Excuse please:

1. When did God and Moses have this little convo?

2. Why were they speaking English?

3. What is a "ressurection period"?

I see no reason to take the Bible literally. Shure, it's an interesting piece of litreature, but at the end of the day I don't think that it is anything more.

Excuse please:

1. When did God and Moses have this little convo?

2. Why were they speaking English?

3. What is a "ressurection period"?

Further more, who recorded this convo? AOL?

that's not clear at all. there's nothing that you quoted that indicates whether or not the quotes should be taken metaphorically

Hold your Bible pages over a flame (not too close!). The lemon juice will turn brown and you'll be able to read where God put "metaphor" and "literal" in the margins.

Checkout http://www.evilbible.com/

You just got told AGAIN, Pongoar!!! WHAT NOW!!!

"That was a burn, dude. Dude, you just got burned. Burned, dude, burned."
-Donut, Red vs. Blue
*Cries* Why is everyone so mean to me? I just want to be loved.

*Cries* Why is everyone so mean to me? I just want to be loved.
Is this sarcastic or not? I'm assuming it is but hey

I think we need to take into account the fact that the Bible was written at many different times, by 50+ individual men. I think it is really easy to get wrapped up in debating some issues without remembering the true message of the Bible

namely,
People are sinful,
God separates himself for sin,
God loved his creation so much that he sent his son to die for it.
People didn't do anything to deserve Jesus' death on the cross and the forgiveness it gives us.
Belief in Christ and his sacrifice on the cross cleanses us from our sins.

I'm willing to go into this more, I'm working on religious studies, so I have to objectively read the Bible and summarize it for like 8 classes.

I think we need to take into account the fact that the Bible was written at many different times, by 50+ individual men. I think it is really easy to get wrapped up in debating some issues without remembering the true message of the Bible

namely,
People are sinful,
God separates himself for sin,
God loved his creation so much that he sent his son to die for it.
People didn't do anything to deserve Jesus' death on the cross and the forgiveness it gives us.
Belief in Christ and his sacrifice on the cross cleanses us from our sins.

I'm willing to go into this more, I'm working on religious studies, so I have to objectively read the Bible and summarize it for like 8 classes.

Um, not really on-topic.

If you want to create a seperate thread, I'd love to discuss the logic of these points.

I guess I put that up because if you don't understand the total message of the Bible, then you can really take things out of context, such as Creationism.

I guess I put that up because if you don't understand the total message of the Bible, then you can really take things out of context, such as Creationism.


I see that. Your post actually was mostly on-topic and my comment was unwarranted. Sorry.

Intelligent design creationism is this:

Things evolved. But they evolved because god designed every natural and scientific law.

Intelligent design creationism believes that the scientific laws, natural selection, evolution, etc. probably happened, but they weren't random events. They were events caused by god.

Whether we're finished evolving is a different issue. Basically:

If you do not believe in evolution, you are not an intelligent design creationist.

STOP STEALING THE LABEL!
Uhm....yea....sure. Ok, I believe in inteligent design. God is all knowing and has a wicked sence of humor. Second, I'm a creationist because I believe we were created. But I don't agree with this evolutionary theory you're trying to tack onto history.

Yes, we are complex and evolving creatures, that kinda happened after Adam and Eve were banished. We started dying and our changing bodies evidence evolution....well, de evolution, really. I mean, Adam lived to be well over 1000 years old. How old are we getting? 70? 80? We de evolved from perfect to lil walking, talking mud pies(Adam came from dust, Eve came from Adam, and the rest of us came from them). So please, step down from the soap box and try to realize we didn't say we evolved, we were made!

Uhm....yea....sure. Ok, I believe in inteligent design. God is all knowing and has a wicked sence of humor. Second, I'm a creationist because I believe we were created. But I don't agree with this evolutionary theory you're trying to tack onto history.

Yes, we are complex and evolving creatures, that kinda happened after Adam and Eve were banished. We started dying and our changing bodies evidence evolution....well, de evolution, really. I mean, Adam lived to be well over 1000 years old. How old are we getting? 70? 80? We de evolved from perfect to lil walking, talking mud pies(Adam came from dust, Eve came from Adam, and the rest of us came from them). So please, step down from the soap box and try to realize we didn't say we evolved, we were made!
I would understand what you were trying to say if I understood

by the way I'm catholic so i might agree with what ure saying

Adam came from dust, Eve came from Adam, and the rest of us came from them). So please, step down from the soap box and try to realize we didn't say we evolved, we were made!

And that...sounds logical to you? That one moment we were dust, and then we were adam. That... actually makes sense?

..wow

WE EVOLVED. THAT'S PART OF THE INTELLIGENT DESIGN. It refers not only to us, but to the complex scientific laws that govern the world. Even your own pope said that genesis was a gigantic metaphor.

Ha ha! Stealing the label? Ha.

Anyway, I support the idea of evolution, but not in the sense that you might think. As I've already said, I believe that genetic mutation in order to fulfil adaptation according to changing environments (a bit wordy, wan't that?), is, by all means, possible. However, I fiercely attack the idea that such adaptation is the reason that we exist today, even if you were to say that God was the one who put the evolution in place.

Seven days, my friend, seven days.


Excuse please:

1. When did God and Moses have this little convo?

2. Why were they speaking English?

3. What is a "ressurection period"?


Ok, let me settle this debate right now.

First, Genesis 1:5 in english: (KJV)

1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Bereshit 1:5 in ORIGINAL HEBREW:

‏וַיִּקְרָ֨א אֱלֹהִ֤ים׀ לָאֹור֙ יֹ֔ום וְלַחֹ֖שֶׁךְ קָ֣רָא לָ֑יְלָה וַֽיְהִי־עֶ֥רֶב וַֽיְהִי־בֹ֖קֶר יֹ֥ום אֶחָֽד׃

Vayikra Elohim la-or yom velachoshech kara laylah vayehi-erev vayehi-voker yom echad.

SEE! SEE! THE WORD THERE ISN'T DAY!!! IT'S A DIFFERENT WORD FROM THE REST OF THE PASSAGE. That must mean there was a *gasp* TRANSLATION ERROR. Yom means period of time, and is modified by the words surrounding it.

AT THE END OF GENESIS 1:5, and the REST of the genesis verses it doesNOT MEAN A LITERAL 24 HOUR DAY.

http://www.accuracyingenesis.com/day.html

If Elohim specifically told Bereshit to Osarismoses (Osirismeses, or Orsariph the person we call moses.) then he did NOT tell moses seven days.

GET THAT INTO YOUR HEADS, AND STOP MAKING ME LOOK BAD BY BEING IGNORANT MEMBERS OF MY OWN RELIGION.

Ignorance is a curable affliction. READ the truths I've given you. Questioning knowledge is one thing, but refusal to accept knowledge when there is no logical argument or evidence to back up your side is called stupid. And while ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.

WE EVOLVED. THAT'S PART OF THE INTELLIGENT DESIGN. It refers not only to us, but to the complex scientific laws that govern the world. Even your own pope said that genesis was a gigantic metaphor. *snip*

GET THAT INTO YOUR HEADS, AND STOP MAKING ME LOOK BAD BY BEING IGNORANT MEMBERS OF MY OWN RELIGION.

Ignorance is a curable affliction. READ the truths I've given you. Questioning knowledge is one thing, but refusal to accept knowledge when there is no logical argument or evidence to back up your side is called stupid. And while ignorance is curable, stupid is forever.

Um, be careful where you point that thing, skippy.

I'm not a member of your religion.

I happen to be quite knowledgable about it, however. Hence my questions to expose flaws in faulty thinking. Think of it as an internet Socratic method.

Obviously, there's nothing intelligent about any design around here... :p

Um, be careful where you point that thing, skippy.

I'm not a member of your religion.

I happen to be quite knowledgable about it, however. Hence my questions to expose flaws in faulty thinking. Think of it as an internet Socratic method.


I was pointing the massive, E-Knowledge hardon at the other guy :D


Peaceful harmonium? There would be if we'd just get rid of the idiots. I agree with evolution and natural laws, but I agree that god made the world AND those natural laws. That's ID Creationism. It's "God Created the world, but he did so through evolution."

I just get a little pissed at ignoramouses who believe otherwise.

Cant we all just get along and bash the scientific creationists?

Good Idea. I'll stop yellin now.

Uhm....yea....sure. Ok, I believe in inteligent design. God is all knowing and has a wicked sence of humor. Second, I'm a creationist because I believe we were created. But I don't agree with this evolutionary theory you're trying to tack onto history.

Yes, we are complex and evolving creatures, that kinda happened after Adam and Eve were banished. We started dying and our changing bodies evidence evolution....well, de evolution, really. I mean, Adam lived to be well over 1000 years old. How old are we getting? 70? 80? We de evolved from perfect to lil walking, talking mud pies(Adam came from dust, Eve came from Adam, and the rest of us came from them). So please, step down from the soap box and try to realize we didn't say we evolved, we were made!

What i find fascinating about creationists is how they blatantly ignorant of the very reality we live in. There is no evidence whatsoever that people in earlier ages lived to over 1000 years. Instead, people in earlier ages had a much lower life expectance.
There is no mythical life source that requires that only some anthropomorphic entity can create life, and it will go all downhill from that point. That's not the world we live in.
Oh, and another good point for the falseness of Genesis would be the proposed existence of the Nephilim (those giants mentioned in Genesis 6.4). If it was true, then we should find skeletal remains of giant hominids. But, we don't. Instead we find whales with legs and feathered dinosaurs. Funny, huh?

And, in the case you didn't know, death existed in the world long before the appearance of humans (fossils should be self-explanatory for that).
The book of Genesis is a book which was written by a multiplicity of people, circa 2500 years ago. Best evidence for multiple sources of the book is the fact that the creation stories of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 contradict each other, and the fact that the Deluge story is prettymuch ripped from the Epic of Gilgamesh.

It's okay to believe into something if you don't know it better. But, still believing into it while knowing it better is folly.

Therefore I'd say, step down from your soapbox, and accept the world we live in. We live in a world where evolution has taken place, and we are a product of it.

Whoah, man. Isle of Skye, you were just asking for this :P I posted something very similar recently (well a bit more long-winded but directed at the same people) and the minute my back was turned there were like nineteen pages there of people arguing and wandering off the topic.

I didn't realise ID wasn't actually referring to the morons in question though. This discrepancy you've pointed out seems to have caused a lot of arguments. For example when I've tried to complain about "ID" to my boyfriend he keeps saying "Maggie, evolution and creation coincide perfectly." And of course he's talking from the point of view of what ID is SUPPOSED to be about, not the people who've hijacked it, who are the ones I was getting pissed off at.

I think the conclusion here is labels cause problems.