NationStates Jolt Archive

I want to know what people really think about required reading. For instance, the A.R. (Accelerated Reader) program was NOT designed to become a required reading program or to be factored into grades. Yet, in fourth grade alone, they (the teachers) used and abused the system throughout my entire school year. At first, I was only required to read one book a month. Then it was two a month. Then three, then four... eventually my parents got fed up and had a talk with the teacher, but other children weren't so lucky.

So, are teachers going overboard? Should their be more/less required reading in public school systems? Should there be any required reading at all? What kind of books are appropriate for required reading and what kind are inappropriate?

There should be required reading. When I was in Grade 12, my history teacher did a poll to find out how many students had read a full novel/ or other book. I was astonished to find that more than half had not read a book cover to cover. I don't claim this is representative, but I think if people read a little more and watched TV a little less, we'd be a more patient, knowledgeable society, as well as one which made our arguments a little better and are not so easily influenced by propoganda.

I'm kind of torn on this one, because frankly, one person's classic is another person's trash. I love Shakespeare, but my husband gets frothy at the mouth when he starts talking about how much he hates that Eurocentric crap. Reading is incredibly important, and being exposed to many genres is a way of engaging student's interests and make them lifelong readers. Required reading doesn't necessarily do that. It simply says, "These books are better than the others because we say so". It's often culturally insensitive and completely subjective.

Children should be required to read. Often. But they should have more choice over WHAT they read, as long as the reading level is appropriate (so not just comic books).

I don't think these are unrealistic expectations by any standard; I think it's just a flawed approach. Heavy analysis ruins reading (as does the teacher reading out loud...I hate that), just as a creative writing class destroys the whole purpose of creative writing. It would be much, much better if we could read in our leisure and be allowed to formulate our own views on them - freely.

I need you to clarify something before I vote. Required reading...does it mean that students are required to read 'x' number of books? Or does it mean that certain novels are read in class?

I actually enjoyed creative writing, because the teacher gave us a pretty free hand . . .
As for heavy analysis, if we don't learn critical thinking skills in school, where should we learn them? I agree that it ruins the entertainment value of the book, but it's still important.
Also, I had to read Lord of the Flies. I hated it, and sought out alternate interpretations. The school system, however, only showed one way of looking at it. I think diverging views should be shown for any required reading.

I actually enjoyed creative writing, because the teacher gave us a pretty free hand . . .
As for heavy analysis, if we don't learn critical thinking skills in school, where should we learn them? I agree that it ruins the entertainment value of the book, but it's still important.
Also, I had to read Lord of the Flies. I hated it, and sought out alternate interpretations. The school system, however, only showed one way of looking at it. I think diverging views should be shown for any required reading.

Augh! Yes! I also hated 'Lord of the Flies'. I did as little course work on it as possible.

Fortunately for me, my teachers all knew I was a big reader and that my dislike was not because I was lazy but because I honestly was uncomfortable with the theme. At least my teacher let me get away with an essay about how wrong I felt the whole thing was.

But I digress.

I think Required Reading is very important in school, despite being exposed to a book I felt was horribly wrong. The school I went to did it both ways -- there were novels assigned that everyone had to read, usually 1 or 2 per year, as well as 'Reading time', a half hour after lunch when the only thing you were allowed to do was sit and read a book. Not a comic book, a book. There were no novels specifically assigned for those times, you could pick whatever you wanted to read. If it happened to be the assigned novel that was okay.

We learn them by reading and discussing. If the book is provoking enough, we'll naturally choose to discuss it. We'll learn it trial and error on our own - because really, what do they teach us about how to analyze a book? We read a book, teacher points out all the symbolism and crap, we take quizzes, we take test.

And I have to agree with you on the diverging viewpoints thing. When we did The Scarlet Letter, Dimmesdale was portrayed by my teacher as a filthy coward, the most base character in the book. I finished it before she told us all this and kind of don't agree. What's the general consensus on Mr. Dimmesdale?...

I don't mind creative writing, but I just can't do prompts. Well, not all prompts, anyways.

There should be required reading. When I was in Grade 12, my history teacher did a poll to find out how many students had read a full novel/ or other book.When was this? If you're sensitive about your age, feel free to give an approximate time frame.

I can think of a lot of books I read back in my school days, and long before my senior year in high school. I read MacBeth three times when I was in high school, and once when I was in 10th grade. One of my teachers my senior year encouraged me to read Hamlet on my own (though I had to do it in addition to MacBeth), even though it wasn't assigned because I had already read MacBeth earlier that year in another school.

I find that reading books opens your mind to new worlds in a way that television or the Internet can't. Read Shakespeare and you'll find a lot of phrases that you hear every day ("sweets for the sweet;" and "method to my madness" just to name two). Just looking at the way people use language when they write can help you become a better writer if that's what your inclination is.

I don't like the concept of required reading because it reduces literature to little more than a letter grade, and forces people who don't want to read something read it, which could likely turn them away from reading forever. Plus, teachers have a tendency to "overanalyze" a book and make it terrible.
For example, in 11th Grade I read Paradise Lost , The Scarlet Letter , and THe Great Gatsby (among others) . I hated them because the teacher went too deep in to them and ruined the flow and feeling of the books. However, I lated re-read the three, and found Gatsby and Paradise Lost to be incredible books that I had missed out on because of their requirement.

However, The Scarlet Letter was still bad. The language wasn't classic and beautiful like Milton's, but was simply overwrought, archaic, and uninteresting. The novel was also burdened by the conventions of the time and the standard plot structure, which I disliked in this novel.

I don't think the schools go far enough in this (or most things). Creative people will be creative no matter what you do to them-uncreative people will be uncreative no matter what you do to them-but... The AP (Advanced Placement) classes are teaching what the general kids of a generation ago were getting in the regular english classes-and it shows. Letting kids skate by watching 'Hamlet' the Movie instead of reading it for themselves... hell, letting them watch 'docudramas' in History classes??? Not challenging them, these are real problems. IMHO, they should take the VCR's (or is it DVD players now?) out of the Classrooms entirely, and force the little illiterates to open up a book, or fail the course.

Whether they should do more or less depends on how much they are already doing, and this varies from school to school and class to class so its impossible to say. But required reading as a whole is very important. Its difficult to be considered educated if you cant discuss the classics.

I think there needs to be required reading, because it's a valuable tool. Not only does it expose you to writing styles you might never have encountered, but it also provides a handy reference for teachers to subtly introduce the basics of critical thought. A class discussion on a piece of literature is precisely that.

I have to disagree with some of the statements here regarding dissenting views. I was notorious for alternative interpretations when I was in school, and my experience was quite different from those mentioned here previously. For one thing, the teachers were already very familiar with the standard interpretations, and dissenting views provided them with variation... nobody likes to teach the same content six hours a day unless each experience is a little different in some way. Dissenting views also provided a catalyst to classroom discussions, keeping them going... you can't have much of a discussion if everyone agrees.

Furthermore, I found that, so long as you could justify your position and support it well, teachers were more likely to grade dissenting papers highly. Originality counts for something.

There were a lot of required books that I did not read because I couldn't stand them, and the aforementioned 'Lord of the Flies' and 'The Scarlet Letter' were among them. But I found if you just shut your mouth for the first 15 minutes or so of class discussion, then join in once you understand what they're talking about, you're teacher will never suspect you didn't read the novel, and you'll get enough of a Cliff's Notes-style understanding of the book to write a good paper.

Yes, required readings are important, but, it is more important to get kids to read by setting a benchmark amount, and getting them there by letting them pick their material, even if it isn't the mos academic. Slowly get them enticed by giving them choice, and throw into the mix the requistional readings... it can't be all required.

I think there needs to be a healthy balance between required readings and self-selected materials, as in a guided reading group. That doesn't necessarily mean that a kid can read whatever they want, it's usually a self-selected text from a group of books with some related theme or topic.

I can't really think of anything I was required to read that I outright hated, but since I read so damn much on my own, I might have appreciated a few choices here and there, so I wasn't re-reading something I'd already read.

Heh. I posted this thread and then I had to go, sorry about that. I'm suprised by how many people think there should be MORE required reading in the public school system. Now I need to set forward my views:

I think that in a perfect world, there would be NO required reading, because people would be able to enjoy books all on their own. As it is, I think there should be LESS required reading because it turns books into the enemy for so many children. I think (at least on the lower levels) that children should be rewarded for reading x number of books in whatever amount of time.

- :mp5: - (That was for my fellow ADD and ADHD victims, to draw their attention back)

I think that children should be exposed to storytelling (I'm not talking about having a book read to them, I mean when the story is acted out, "brought to life", if you will.) on a regular basis, until it once again becomes a part of daily life. Not just children either. We should all rediscover storytelling. If storytelling becomes a part of everyday life, then I think people will appreciate the power of words better.

I think that when reading is required, it should be a good mixture of classics and modern literature, and all different genres. There should be one required book a month that the teacher chooses and one a month that the student chooses, as long as it is approximately on their reading level. I don't think sexual content is appropriate for required reading, unless it is extremely light. I don't think religion is appropriate, but if religion is brought into the required reading, than there should be books on several different religions, not just the one of the teacher's, majority's, principle's, etc. I don't see anything wrong with light homosexual themes being brought into required reading.

Wow. I'm very opinionated. It's probably because I blame the educational system for taking away my love for reading. :sniper:

Wow. I'm very opinionated. It's probably because I blame the educational system for taking away my love for reading

I suppose cafeteria food took away your desire for lunch? Did the educational films rob you of your love of movies? Did choir class take away your enjoyment of music? Did gym steal your passion for sports?

I suppose cafeteria food took away your desire for lunch? Did the educational films rob you of your love of movies? Did choir class take away your enjoyment of music? Did gym steal your passion for sports?
Actually, yeah.

Heh. I posted this thread and then I had to go, sorry about that. I'm suprised by how many people think there should be MORE required reading in the public school system. Now I need to set forward my views:

I think that in a perfect world, there would be NO required reading, because people would be able to enjoy books all on their own. As it is, I think there should be LESS required reading because it turns books into the enemy for so many children. I think (at least on the lower levels) that children should be rewarded for reading x number of books in whatever amount of time.


You obviously live in a culture where reading is considered a normal activity for school aged children. In such societies, required reading is debatable.

I however live in a society where reading is considered a strange and "effeminate" activity by the mjority of the population. It is acceptable for girls to read a little, but they have to be up to date with the telenovela first (Sort of soap opera). Boys should be outside playing football (soccer for the USAians). The result of this is that Brazil produces some of the best soccer players and some good actresses, but hardly any philosophers, authors, poets, economists, historians or statesmen.

In such a society, the hope that there is for the future is in required reading. If it is compulsory, the boy has to read, then no shame attaches to the activity, the girl has to leave the TV for a while and read.

Having set texts to read is something I am not sure about. I think maybe one or two a year, to allow class discussions etc. is a good thing, more than this may put people off reading by forcing them to spend too much time with texts that they are not obtaining any pleasure from reading.

You obviously live in a culture where reading is considered a normal activity for school aged children. In such societies, required reading is debatable.

I however live in a society where reading is considered a strange and "effeminate" activity by the mjority of the population. It is acceptable for girls to read a little, but they have to be up to date with the telenovela first (Sort of soap opera). Boys should be outside playing football (soccer for the USAians). The result of this is that Brazil produces some of the best soccer players and some good actresses, but hardly any philosophers, authors, poets, economists, historians or statesmen.

In such a society, the hope that there is for the future is in required reading. If it is compulsory, the boy has to read, then no shame attaches to the activity, the girl has to leave the TV for a while and read.

Having set texts to read is something I am not sure about. I think maybe one or two a year, to allow class discussions etc. is a good thing, more than this may put people off reading by forcing them to spend too much time with texts that they are not obtaining any pleasure from reading.
I don't know about all that. I'm understand gender roles all too well, but I believe in my society reading is considered a part of everyday life for males and females, children and adults. The problem is, it's value isn't stressed nearly enough. I grew up in a family where the power of story was highly valued: up until I turned 8 or 9 years old we read stories aloud every night. My mother is a professional storyteller. My dad is a musician, which I believe to be a kind of storyteller, though it is more of a hobby than a career for him currently. I can only answer by my own life experience, and I'm sorry, I haven't really ever experienced any culture than my own. :(

I suppose cafeteria food took away your desire for lunch? Did the educational films rob you of your love of movies? Did choir class take away your enjoyment of music? Did gym steal your passion for sports?

I ate lunch about 10% of the time I was in school.
Educational films are not the same as fictional ones, besides which we tended to actually get some fairly reasonable things to watch.
All music lessons turned me off music. I didn't start having anything to do with music for about four years after the last school I was in which required me to do Music lessons.
And probably. I used to love sports when I was younger. Now I hate them.

I ate lunch about 10% of the time I was in school.
Educational films are not the same as fictional ones, besides which we tended to actually get some fairly reasonable things to watch.
All music lessons turned me off music. I didn't start having anything to do with music for about four years after the last school I was in which required me to do Music lessons.
And probably. I used to love sports when I was younger. Now I hate them.

You're basically supporting the point I was trying to make. School lunches are not representative of all there is to eat, school movies are not representative of all there is to watch, school music does not represent all of the musical possibilities, and gym class does not represent all sporting activities.

And required reading lessons in school do not represent all literature. It's silly to dismiss something entirely from your life based on the tiny sample you receive in school.

I find it very difficult to believe that a couple of you quit playing ball with your friends after school because of gym class. Or that you in particular quit listening to music entirely based on your experiences in music class.

I wish there was less of it, but it's never really been a problem for me.

I am an avid, and FAST, reader. I literally injured myself recently by reading while walking and stepping in a hole, spraining my ankle. So while the teacher is slowly leading the class through the book, I'm already done. I've formed my own interpretations, my own opinions, and my own usual dislike for the book.

I mean, Their Eyes Were Watching God is a nice book, with all sorts of themes and such, but the accents you have to read are KILLER.

Anyway, ignore that. I wish there was a little less rote teaching and more emphasis on different interpretations, but I don't particularly object to req reading myself.
Ease up on the younger kids, though. I have a friend who's younger brother is ebing overwhelmed by the stuff in Second Grade.

I DO, however, object to those @()%&@ language classes.

Required Reading and Accelerated Reader are the biggest crocks in the public school system. Look, people, you make the kids do hours and hours of work all day in the classroom, you give them 20+ pages (front AND back) of homework every day, you don't allow recess, and to top it all off, you make them read four books a week! Shit like this ruins the experience, and puts a strain on everybody.

Lay off.

You're basically supporting the point I was trying to make. School lunches are not representative of all there is to eat, school movies are not representative of all there is to watch, school music does not represent all of the musical possibilities, and gym class does not represent all sporting activities.

And required reading lessons in school do not represent all literature. It's silly to dismiss something entirely from your life based on the tiny sample you receive in school.

I find it very difficult to believe that a couple of you quit playing ball with your friends after school because of gym class. Or that you in particular quit listening to music entirely based on your experiences in music class.
Let me see if I can illustrate my point more clearly: I find myself no longer enjoying reading because the public schooling system has sucked all the fun out it because of required reading. I am the anti-authority type; it is in my nature. Before I went through the public schooling system, I enjoyed stories and words and appreciated them on a level that perhaps very few people could understand. That's gone now. I blame the public schooling system and their "required reading" for this.

Let me see if I can illustrate my point more clearly: I find myself no longer enjoying reading because the public schooling system has sucked all the fun out it because of required reading. I am the anti-authority type; it is in my nature. Before I went through the public schooling system, I enjoyed stories and words and appreciated them on a level that perhaps very few people could understand. That's gone now. I blame the public schooling system and their "required reading" for this.

The same thing happened to my friend, Robert. See, our high school had recess before 2000, and now, it's totally gone. No recess for high school. And, he has to read four books every other week of each month. Oh yeah, don't forget that he does hours of paperwork in class ever weekday, and he has over twenty pages of homework on average. Oh yeah, and they implemented WEEKEND HOMEWORK, so he's got over thirty pages of homework on the weekends.

The same thing happened to my friend, Robert. See, our high school had recess before 2000, and now, it's totally gone. No recess for high school. And, he has to read four books every other week of each month. Oh yeah, don't forget that he does hours of paperwork in class ever weekday, and he has over twenty pages of homework on average. Oh yeah, and they implemented WEEKEND HOMEWORK, so he's got over thirty pages of homework on the weekends.
Well, minus the weekend homework, that was me in the public middle school. Does anybody seriously wonder why I homeschool?

The same thing happened to my friend, Robert. See, our high school had recess before 2000, and now, it's totally gone. No recess for high school. And, he has to read four books every other week of each month. Oh yeah, don't forget that he does hours of paperwork in class ever weekday, and he has over twenty pages of homework on average. Oh yeah, and they implemented WEEKEND HOMEWORK, so he's got over thirty pages of homework on the weekends.

Fucking fuck, remind me not to move to Texas.

I get very little homework, most of which I complete in class, DESPITE the fact I'm in a AP class. I dunno. Maybe I'm a lucky little arse. Maybe I'm just too good. Maybe this is getting sort of annoying.
So I'll stop.

Fucking fuck, remind me not to move to Texas.

I get very little homework, most of which I complete in class, DESPITE the fact I'm in a AP class. I dunno. Maybe I'm a lucky little arse. Maybe I'm just too good. Maybe this is getting sort of annoying.
So I'll stop.

Texas has the worst public school system in the nation. Instead of actually fixing real problems, they just give the kids more work.

Texas has the worst public school system in the nation. Instead of actually fixing real problems, they just give the kids more work.

Reminds me of FL. Don't give more funding! Give them a test! Don't give them more teachers! Give them a useless, required Spanish course starting the 2nd grade!


Yo, FL Legislature!
&^(^ YOU!

Texas has the worst public school system in the nation. Instead of actually fixing real problems, they just give the kids more work.
Oh, yeah? How 'bout this one? My old local public schooling system spends more per student than any of the other local public schooling systems and scores lower on the standardized tests!

Oh, yeah? How 'bout this one? My old local public schooling system spends more per student than any of the other local public schooling systems and scores lower on the standardized tests!

Simple. Standardized tests suck.

Simple. Standardized tests suck.
Actually, I like standardized tests. I test well.

You're basically supporting the point I was trying to make. School lunches are not representative of all there is to eat, school movies are not representative of all there is to watch, school music does not represent all of the musical possibilities, and gym class does not represent all sporting activities.

And required reading lessons in school do not represent all literature. It's silly to dismiss something entirely from your life based on the tiny sample you receive in school.

I find it very difficult to believe that a couple of you quit playing ball with your friends after school because of gym class. Or that you in particular quit listening to music entirely based on your experiences in music class.

Precisely. It's not a representative sample, so it's unfair to everything not sampled. If a teacher holds up some books and says "Dickens, Shakespeare, and Bronte are the greatest authors ever." and you read them, what happens to Shelley, Asimov, and Dostoevsky? I don't mind required reading IF the teacher says 'Read a book a month' or something, and just checks the book is of an acceptable level. I DO object to any one book being placed over any others, which is exactly what RR does. (This of course is based on my beliefs of what value things have and in what manner that value is acquired.)

And whilst I daresay my dislike of music was more formulated by my parents than school, I'm fairly certain the hell that was gym had a lot to do with my failing to voluntarily play any sports.

Actually, I like standardized tests. I test well.
I test well, but I find the things interminably boring, useless, and a waste of money that COULD be put to better use.

I feel that there should be more required reading in school, of a broad range of subjects. The Classics - Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid, Metamorphoses, several dramas/comedies. Philosophy - The Republic, Nicomachean Ethics, Tao te Ching, The Great Learning, Utilitarianism, Pragmatism, Common Sense, the Communist Manifesto, Second Treatise on Government, Vindication of the Rights of Women. Those are my big two for what people should have in their heads; I've only listed suggestions off the top of my head. Also, novels that are integral to the Western Tradition, though that kind of changes with the teacher and local culture.

However, more important than reading in school is reading at home. Parents should impress the importance - and fun - of reading on their children. And strongly. I know I plan to.

I want to know what people really think about required reading. For instance, the A.R. (Accelerated Reader) program was NOT designed to become a required reading program or to be factored into grades. Yet, in fourth grade alone, they (the teachers) used and abused the system throughout my entire school year. At first, I was only required to read one book a month. Then it was two a month. Then three, then four... eventually my parents got fed up and had a talk with the teacher, but other children weren't so lucky.

So, are teachers going overboard? Should their be more/less required reading in public school systems? Should there be any required reading at all? What kind of books are appropriate for required reading and what kind are inappropriate?

Eh..?

You seem pretty literate, so why bitch? Maybe it sucked, but you got something from it. As to teachers; yes they are generally all assholes.

I feel that there should be more required reading in school, of a broad range of subjects. The Classics - Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid, Metamorphoses, several dramas/comedies. Philosophy - The Republic, Nicomachean Ethics, Tao te Ching, The Great Learning, Utilitarianism, Pragmatism, Common Sense, the Communist Manifesto, Second Treatise on Government, Vindication of the Rights of Women. Those are my big two for what people should have in their heads; I've only listed suggestions off the top of my head. Also, novels that are integral to the Western Tradition, though that kind of changes with the teacher and local culture.

However, more important than reading in school is reading at home. Parents should impress the importance - and fun - of reading on their children. And strongly. I know I plan to.


Cengel and Boles would be nice too.

The fact is, we can't let kids read what they want. Why? Because they're kids. Let's be honest, is a fifth grader intelligent enough to choose a well suited, intellectually stimulating book? No. While there may be some cultural biases, what should be done is to provide as many different genres as possible. And so what if books express ideas you don't like? You can't grow up in a little bubble, reading only what fits your worldview. The whole point of school is to teach you how to think. To challenge your worldview, to provide as many perspectives as possible, to allow you to develop and defend your beliefs after analyzing the full spectrum of ideas. For example, I thought the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf were a load of crock; but to not read such influential literature would be foolish.

Of course we arent going to throw mein kampf at them in 5th grade. Anything before high school should be for the basics of understanding symbolism, and simply understanding the books. High school is where you actually analyse the books, and a good range of them would help teach people a less american point of view(Not to say anything is wrong with the american point of view, but if someone is raised on TV with references to the failure of communism, that person will probably grow up hating communism, without quite understanding). I was surprised to find out how many people in my Honors 3 english class didn't quite know the difference between capitalism and communism(they understood quickly, but few could actually tell what it was when asked).

I think that a number of books should be required in high school, but even more important, there should be ssr and required books to read on your own, ones you get to choose(with guidelines, of course). I have had this for two years now, and I have read the communist manifesto, voltaire, ender's game yet again, 1984, and no birds sang, and other gems that I might never have picked up, not to mention the vonnegut that I have been introduced too. Required reading really lets people shine, or deflate; The smart kids will read 1984, the dumb ones will read the smallest book allowed.