NationStates Jolt Archive

In a lot of stories, film, poetry, myth and what-have-you, when the young aspirant comes to the ancient master, he is at first rejected. His desire to learn the Way is intense and unwavering, but the Master rejects the pupil.

"Your heart burns with determination, but the source of your resolve is impure. You seek the Way to achieve vengeance (or wealth/power/fame/glory et cetera) "

When the student finds some worthy motivation, he is accepted and develops the ultimate level of proficiency, allowing him to defeat the hordes of whatever led by the diabolical whoever.

So, examing the theme in real life, I'm wondering...

What is a "pure" motivation?

All aptitudes being equal, is a person with a "pure" motivation more or less capable than someone with a nearly insane intensity of a less pure motivation?

e.g., Bob wants to be a ballet dancer, he is motivated by a genuine love for the dance and the pursuit of insight into the art for its own sake (or whatever)

Jack is profoundly obsessed with becoming a ballet dancer because in his culture, they are well paid, given social privilage, and get all the girls.

If Bob and Jack have the same innate talent, access to teachers, and athletic build, who will become the best dancer?

I'd have to say that Bob would be better. Since he is dedicated solely for the purpose of doing ballet, learning it and perfecting it, he is less likely to give up on it should there be a setback (which will happen, regardless of talent because no one is perfect). However, he may not be as quick to advance because of the lack of external motivation. Jack is hampered by and will not succeed due to two major things:

1. He isn't motivated do to it because of the action, only the rewards it can bring
2. Since his interest hinges on these things, failiure is much less easier to overcome and so he is more likely to give up. Even more so if his failiure results in losing the status he desires.

Thus, a person whose motivation is solely for personal introspection and knowledge, or a "pure" motive, is more likely to achieve success.

I think that both can be just as capable if they are as motivated, but I think that the "master" in these stories only wishes to give his teachings for the "right" reasons. It's not that the young man would be any less capable to learn if he were motivated by vengeance, but it is that the master simply does not approve of vengeance.

Also, a person who has an alterior motive, such as vengeance, may be in a rush to complete their training to accomplish their goals, where a person motivated by love of the artform would not feel this way.

Wow, thoughtful responses. I have to admit I find them both compelling.

Vetalia: Thats intriguing, the idea that the "love the art" guy/gal would be more resistant to the impact of setbacks. Will his focus on the value of his field of study/art make his ego less of an issue, allowing him to not take setbacks personally? I've always had a real problem with that, but I'm very attracted to the idea that respect for the path can mitigate doubt and fear of failure.

The Feylands: Ok, I'll buy that. I guess I overlooked the premise that the Master just didn't want to hand out the Thrusting Pinky of Obliteration technique to adverse ideologies (or just jerks). Now that I think about it, I guess sometimes there is a former student of the master who went evil, and now maybe the master is more wary of who he gives his secrets to. Anyway, good point.


On some level, I know my whole question is pretentious. I realize guy who goes to work every day, punches his clock and works hard, gets his pay and then goes home to his family has no less meaningful a life than a guy who seeks to achieve some kind of mastery. Thing is, during my formative years, I was constantly taught that to be a valuable human, you need to be the best at what you do, or die trying. I can't shake it, and its conflicting harshly with my personal belief system of ease and apathy. I have to find a way to reconcile the two if I'm to find some kind of balance. Oh, well.

Anyway, I'm transferring 150 units of Karma to each of your Cosmic Accounts in return for you insightful answers. You guys take post dated checks, right?

I would say that the person motivated my money and fame would be much more likely to succeed than someone who is motivated by love for whatever they are doing.

Someone motivated by love of the activity may become disenfranchised and fall out of love for the activity due to setbacks.

i think the intense but impure desire would win out. the love of whatever doesnt make you work night and day the same way as avenging the murder of your mother would. given the same level of innate talent, the burning desire is worth more no matter how stupid the motivation really is.

That seems reasonable, Tough Guy, but can people also fall out of love with fame and fortune? Or is that only after they get them...hm. Maybe the desire for fame and fortune are so ingrained in our culture (I'm U.S.ian) that most people don't become disillusioned with it...

Ashmoria, thats a very pragmatic and practical observation. There certainly are people at the top of their fields that got there through single-minded focus and base desires. I guess I'm wondering, are there secrets and insights to a pursuit that only reveal themselves to someone who reveres (not religiously, necessarily) the subject matter? If the subject has personal important and relevance to someone, will they see sides of it that will remain hidden to one who is just using the study as a means to an end?

Interesting example about the guy avenging his mother. It brings to mind the example of Batman, motivated by what happened to his parents, but also a love of Gotham...does he have both? Too bad he's not real world example...

Crap, I'm out of Karma, already...thanks for the ideas, though, guys.