NationStates Jolt Archive

I wonder...how long will it be before things become so severe, so polarized, so of-the-wall, that we will have riots running through the streets of the US?

Even beyond that...Open revolt? The Second US Civil War?

Do you think that it is possible in our lifetimes?

Yup, California is going to take advantage of those fault lines and break away from the rest of the US :)

Yup, California is going to take advantage of those fault lines and break away from the rest of the US :)

Ahhhh, can't wait to holiday at Arizona Bay.

1. how long will it be before things become so severe, so polarized, so of-the-wall, that we will have riots running through the streets of the US?

2. Open revolt?

3. The Second US Civil War?

4. Do you think that it is possible in our lifetimes?
1. Never

2. No.

3. We already had one of those and one was too much.

4. No.

1. Never

2. No.

3. We already had one of those and one was too much.

4. No.

Doesn't get more clear than that.

Just want to let everyone know that I don't nessesarily support the idea of revolt, but I am just making observations.

I wonder...how long will it be before things become so severe, so polarized, so of-the-wall, that we will have riots running through the streets of the US?

In a few decades, after globalization has consistently, dramatically reduced our wages and living standards, then maybe. Large groups of idiots (sports fans, for example) are capable of rioting for no good reason, but for the general population it takes something serious hitting very close to home.

Even beyond that...Open revolt? The Second US Civil War?

Do you think that it is possible in our lifetimes?

If the elites will it, yes. The people at large are not likely to be self-motivated towards any of that, of course, but with enough manipulation, it's certainly possible. Presently though they seem to be succeeding without out and out violence. I doubt it will escalate to the kinds of things you're talking about until they believe their hold on political power is significantly threatened, and I don't see that happening for awhile.

I wonder...how long will it be before things become so severe, so polarized, so of-the-wall, that we will have riots running through the streets of the US?

Even beyond that...Open revolt? The Second US Civil War?

Do you think that it is possible in our lifetimes?

It's possible. Anything is possible. I'd say this is far more possible then the most improbable thing, but at the same time it's not going to happen if a Republican wins the presidential election in 2008.

Before people resort to riots in the streets they should try voting for more effective candidates. This could just mean voting for a third party or independent.

(sports fans, for example)

Excuse me, ass?

things have been very bad in this country without it degenerating into civil war. check out the terrible things that happened in the great depression, if that didnt do us in, nothing will.

Excuse me, ass?

Need you be reminded that sports fans are perfectly capable of rioting because their team won? As if that made any sense whatsoever? Like I said, large groups of idiots can riot for no reason.

1. Never

2. No.

3. We already had one of those and one was too much.

4. No.
don't be such a negative nelly.

:mp5:

SAY NO TO WAR.. DO WHAT A HIPPY WOULD DO AND GREASE~
:sniper:

SAY NO TO WAR.. DO WHAT A HIPPY WOULD DO AND GREASE~


No war but the class war fool.

As an International Socialist (Yeah, I'm a commie!); I would hope, just like in the 1960s, that the oppisition will radicalize and dump the democrats, take up the red flag and start setting SUVs alight.

An other SDS campus uprising would go so fine.... :p

Civil conflict or anything close to it could be the greatest thing I could wish for in the US; it would be an oppurtonity to reintroduce America to radical politics!

No war but the class war fool.

As an International Socialist (Yeah, I'm a commie!); I would hope, just like in the 1960s, that the oppisition will radicalize and dump the democrats, take up the red flag and start setting SUVs alight.

An other SDS campus uprising would go so fine.... :p

Civil conflict or anything close to it could be the greatest thing I could wish for in the US; it would be an oppurtonity to reintroduce America to radical politics!
There was a brief flirtation with that after Ruby Ridge and Waco, dude-it died still born and thank gawd it did. (you seem to forget, there are right wing as well as Left Wing radicals... and the ones on the right have guns.)

You are obviously uninformed about the great-danger that Bill Clinton and Janet Reno were saving us from-the Militias-who, unlike you and your friends, actually know how to kill people in the most efficient manner available.

(Weathermen bodycount: Three, Two fascist nutjobs did over a hundered at Oklahoma City alone.)

As for whether it's going to happen- Politics aren't as polarized as they were in the 1880's, and we don't have a "Slavery" issue that divided whole regions like pre-1860. in fact, going down to the county-by-county level, the division between the sides is a lot less clear-in red states, little pockmarks of blue, and in blue states, little pockmarks of Blue on a sea of 'red' (using ye olde Election Mappe circa 2004)-there isn't the regional or resource base for a unified attempt at secession by either side, and our Electoral process is accessable enough that you don't have nearly the opportunity to generate political-sectarian violence that was available before the invention of Radio.

Further, the Media (left-bias or right-bias) is perfectly willing to let Radical and Extreme groups howl their screed on live teevee-this tends to make them look a bit like the guys who testified at the Congressional Hearings on Militias. (Note: nobody but their opponents took them seriously after that-the Movement lost most of its moderates after those jerk-offs opened their mouths in front of the cameras.)

See, Free Speech means letting the nutballs make utter fools of themselves in public. This is far more disarming than trying to lock 'em all up, since it gives them (right or left) a stage to show what utter nimrods they really are.

I have a friend who is convinced that someone programing reality-tv has been trying to jump start the culture/class war with shows like The Simple Life and Joe Millionare and The Bachelor but we keep just taking it like in Face in the Crowd/Network/Bamboozled. Somewhere that guy or woman is pulling their hair out and screaming-"You just keep taking it, you bastards..."

It's an amusing image.

You'll be waiting a long time indeed. Some Americans talk big about kicking it over, but come the weekend, they're Wal-Mart shoppers too.

Hah. Effete boojwah so-called revolutionaries. You wouldn't know what a revolution was if the Beatles hadn't written a song about it.

:D
Most Radicals on the left aren't emotionally or psychologically prepared to survive the world they want to create. Most Radicals on the right are so nutball nobody in their right mind would listen to 'em. (okay, that's true on both counts). I remember seeing (in the flesh, mind...) cars that cost what my parent's HOUSE cost at the WTO protests, and bigger, less-efficient cars at numerous 'green' protests (filled with plastic-and-leather-clad suburban upper-class spawnlings with their 'greenpeace' tee-shirts and Third-World sweatshop shoes, belts, purses...)

Most of the American Left think food comes off the back of a truck, wood for their homes just magickally appears, (or comes from the Lumber-yard, duh), and that their 'green' clothes (made in China by underpaid third-world workers working in primitive conditions) aren't processed in a bath of chemicals that will kill you if you slowly if you breathe the fumes over an extended period of time.

I wonder...how long will it be before things become so severe, so polarized, so of-the-wall, that we will have riots running through the streets of the US?

Even beyond that...Open revolt? The Second US Civil War?

Do you think that it is possible in our lifetimes?


Yes, and I hope to help initiate some of the more deadly riots :mp5:

Another question to ask, who would win in a civil war? The well-armed conservatives or the well-supplied liberals? (given that liberals tend to live in cities and cities have ports and rail yards and things)

It's possible. Anything is possible. I'd say this is far more possible then the most improbable thing, but at the same time it's not going to happen if a Republican wins the presidential election in 2008.



I honestly think that rioting is more likely to happen in that event. I know I'll be doing it :D

Don't think I'm immature or anything, quite the contrary, I have thought long and hard about the political advantages of an armed revolution, and for my side, the prospects look pretty good.

No war but the class war fool.

As an International Socialist (Yeah, I'm a commie!); I would hope, just like in the 1960s, that the oppisition will radicalize and dump the democrats, take up the red flag and start setting SUVs alight.

it'll be the black flag this time.

or no flags at all.

I surely wouldn't participate in such a civil war. I would however stock up on weapons just in case I have to defend myself from either side. Going extreme either way is not a good thing. My money however would go on the Liberals, considering the previous victory in a previous civil war.

when asia or any other region gains economic and military superiority the USA with it's authoritarian gov't and huge debt will go third world and It's people will go ape sh*t on each other, but only after we invade Mexico and Canada.

Yup, California is going to take advantage of those fault lines and break away from the rest of the US :)

But, alas, the poor state of California forgot the one basic principal of physics that could have saved them. Rock sinks in water. The world stared on in shocked surprise but there was nothing to be done, California was gone for good.

it'll be the black flag this time.

or no flags at all.You bet! :D

You bet! :D


But I like the red flag :(

But I like the red flag :(
Well, you can have the red and black anarcho-syndicalist flag then? Me, I think I'll make a black and purple flag. ;)

I honestly think that rioting is more likely to happen in that event. I know I'll be doing it :D

Don't think I'm immature or anything, quite the contrary, I have thought long and hard about the political advantages of an armed revolution, and for my side, the prospects look pretty good.

So do your Christmas shopping early kiddos to avoid all the long lines of wackos with guns trying to overthrow the government. And remember, buy one get one free at Ernies Gun Emporium.

You bet! :D

heh

the last place i lived in had a flag pole outside - had a nice big black flag flying off of it all year.
i know a guy out here in idaho that has a red\black hanging up in the store he runs.

But I like the red flag :(

How about the black and red?

http://danny.oz.au/politics/anarchism/cnt.gif

my non-existent-diety-of-choice, the anarchists are out in force! it's as if we all were attracted by the mere words 'open revolt'

It's like a shining beacon.

The next US civil war WILL happen in our lifetimes--in the next TEN YEARS. :(

With the habits I have, I'm not expecting to live past 60. So that puts my year of death around 2045. I think given the rapid expansion of the Republican party, a meaningful civil war isn't too likely unless my generation turns out to be sickeningly liberal and votes as such. A civil war will really only happen if a definate political schism exists within the same generation. Anything else results in the young, vigorous population believing in $IDEAL and the old farts belieivng in $DIFFERENT_IDEAL. A civil war between the elderly and the nation's youth probably wouldn't last very long. Given our current political leanings, I don't think this is very likely: Bush's policies from what I've seen has pushed my generation in more of a liberal direction; but I've only had the good fortune to examine a relatively small proportion of my generation, so I can only be so sure.

Originally posted by The Plutonian Empire

The next US civil war WILL happen in our lifetimes--in the next TEN YEARS.

What, may I ask, is the reasoning behing this dire prediction?

Yes, and I hope to help initiate some of the more deadly riots :mp5:

Another question to ask, who would win in a civil war? The well-armed conservatives or the well-supplied liberals? (given that liberals tend to live in cities and cities have ports and rail yards and things)
Your average Urban centre is three days from utter chaos-that's how much food you have in the stores and warehouses. Railways can be cut by incredibly simple means, and in the event of the situation you're postulating, resupply by air, truck, rail, even by ship can be easily and simply cut-off by the well-armed side (the side with the food.)
Inside of two weeks, your cities will be significantly reduced-there just aren't enough ship-operators willing to run the risk of docking in a port that's overrun with chaos and violence, barges can be prevented from moving down-river with ridiculous ease (four charges on the Missisippi in the right place, and N'Orleans floods, in another place, and ships can't move cargo up the river...) Cutting I-5 between Seattle and, say, Everett, and you've effectively turned Bellingham into a Canadian Protectorate, do the bridges east, and the city's got only the Port of Seattle (which can be blocked fairly easily.)

Tacoma's vulnerable to similar effects-but unlikely to suffer much with Ft. Lewis right there to keep the highways south open (Provided the Soldiers decide to side with the city-people, and not the folks who live like their families do.)

Moving southward...
Portland can be starved of fresh-water and food by knocking out two roads and the railways-blocking the river's a matter of cutting a string of barges loose at the wrong time, and the Willamette Valley can be flooded out quite easily without destroying primary infrastructure.

Further... how do your power-plants (Hydroelectric mostly, now that Trojan and Hanford are shut down) get powr into your cities to run your microwaves, heat your homes, etc?

Yah... a .22 rifle can black out every major city on the West Coast north of Sacramento-you don't even need high explosives, just volunteers with rabbit-guns.

There are a LOT of people that would volunteer if it came to blows.

So let's see... The "Well Supplied" liberal urban centres can be cut off from food, (Mostly) Water (definitely) and Power-and they, for the most part, don't have anything in-place to re-place it if it is cut off (The result of NIMBY attitudes and blocking every effort to keep or maintain any sort of key infrastructural items like power-plants, water-storage...)

What about your Sewers? Haha! again, city people, your sewage-treatment facilities are generally outside the city-limits, in areas that would tend to be controlled by teh same people you look down on.

Water, Power, Sewer= industrial base. No Water, no Power, no Sewer, your human-hive has nothing to trade with.

Most City dwellers don't know how to survive as 'Urban outdoorsmen', they will starve, or surrender.

Give it a month, maybe two for the serious holdouts.

What, may I ask, is the reasoning behing this dire prediction?
It is strictly speculation on my part. It is just my gut feeling. And, if I'm lucky, I'll be the one to lead the revolution and implement my Empire. :D