NationStates Jolt Archive

With all the Charles and Camilla hoopla, I have noticed I depressing trend. Most Brits don't know what the flag of the UK is called, nor do they know which way to hold it up.

So, I am introducing a poll: to check who knows what! Of course, you have to post the full answer. Otherwise; well,........ you look a little dim.

Well bump.

Throw in your british flag theories

Heres my description. The union flag (or union jack) is a combination of the red cross of Saint George (England), diagonal red cross of Saint Patrick (Ireland), and the diagonal white cross of Saint Andrew (Scotland).

Which makes me wonder, why did Wales get the shaft in the flag department?
If the UK were to ever give up North Ireland, would the UK change its flag?

Heres my description. The union flag (or union jack) is a combination of the red cross of Saint George (England), diagonal red cross of Saint Patrick (Ireland), and the diagonal white cross of Saint Andrew (Scotland).

Which makes me wonder why did Wales get the shaft?
If England ever gives up North Ireland will it change its flag?

I give you 50% sir. Which way does it hang though (for the full 100%)

I don't know, you clip it on the flag pole and hoist it up. :P

Er, you guys call it a Union Jack. Hell, that's all I know. I'm an American and that's as far as we all generally know. :)

Er, you guys call it a Union Jack. Hell, that's all I know. I'm an American and that's as far as we all generally know. :)

Yah, rong. you get 0% sir, try again,

I'm not sure. I think the diagonal red stripes on the left side are on the bottom and the red stripes on the right are on the top. Of course it could be the other way around.

I'm not sure. I think the diagonal red stripes on the left side are on the bottom and the red stripes on the right are on the top. Of course it could be the other way around.

If you could describe that with respect to the pole - and give it the true name - we might have a winner.

It's real name is the Union Flag, since it only becomes a jack when flown from a ship's jack pole. Also, the diagonal red cross isn't exactly centered against the white Scottish cross, with the red being lower than truly symmetrical.

If you could describe that with respect to the pole - and give it the true name - we might have a winner.

The 'left side' is the side touching the pole. The 'right side' is the opposite side. I'll just take The Mindset's answer and say it's the union flag.

The 'left side' is the side touching the pole. The 'right side' is the opposite side. I'll just take The Mindset's answer and say it's the union flag.

Teh WINNAR.

You find it depressing that people don't know about or how to hang the flag of one nation? You aweful nationalist! You are trying to end the world! Someone should bomb you!

You find it depressing that people don't know about or how to hang the flag of one nation? You aweful nationalist! You are trying to end the world! Someone should bomb you!

No, you are right, we should all be equally horrible.

Damn those rich nations. They became rich, if only they were lazy and poor. :rolleyes:

I live in Australia

We need a new flag, i.e. get rid of the Union Jack off ours.

I live in Australia

We need a new flag, i.e. get rid of the Union Jack off ours.

Why? Aren't you proud of your heritage? Or does it embarrass you?

The national flag of Britain can be referred to as Union Jack or Union Flag interchangeably. The Admiralty and Parliament have decreed that either terminology is correct. A Union Jack (AKA Union Flag) is a jack only if it is flown from the jackstaff of an active British warship. in all other instances the British flag is just a non-jack Union Jack. IIRC it is against the law to fly the Union Jack from the jackstaff of a decommissioned warship or a civilian ship.

<--- someone who is unhealthily obsessed with flags

No, you are right, we should all be equally horrible.

Damn those rich nations. They became rich, if only they were lazy and poor. :rolleyes:
Oh! I'm sorry. I didn't know that respect for ones flag and pride in ones nation was only nationalistic and offensive when Americans are involved. I must not have gotten the memo. I'll make a note of it.

Oh! I'm sorry. I didn't know that respect for ones flag and pride in ones nation was only nationalistic and offensive when Americans are involved. I must not have gotten the memo. I'll make a note of it.

Go live in the central african republic.

Wales is not represented by virtue of being a conquered country...

As such we don't care what you do with the Union Flag... Just don't make us fly it

MerlinMadgowyr
Press Officer

:sniper:

Whee, first post :)

Piece of trivia for you: I went paintballing last week and so the day before I bought a big union jack on a bamboo cane for me and team to fly. Being me, I walked home with the colours flying. We were accused of being national front no less than three times before we got back. Sometimes I despair of this country...

Still, it worked when we got there (http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/saab/images/Paintball/1.JPG) :D

Whee, first post :)

Piece of trivia for you: I went paintballing last week and so the day before I bought a big union jack on a bamboo cane for me and team to fly. Being me, I walked home with the colours flying. We were accused of being national front no less than three times before we got back. Sometimes I despair of this country...

Still, it worked when we got there (http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/saab/images/Paintball/1.JPG) :D

Nice.

I have a huuuuuge Union Flag pinned to the wall above my bed, my brother and sister took the piss out of me for it to start with :mad:

Whee, first post :)

Piece of trivia for you: I went paintballing last week and so the day before I bought a big union jack on a bamboo cane for me and team to fly. Being me, I walked home with the colours flying. We were accused of being national front no less than three times before we got back. Sometimes I despair of this country...

Still, it worked when we got there (http://nodewar.penguinbomb.com/saab/images/Paintball/1.JPG) :D
represent

I have a huuuuuge Union Flag pinned to the wall above my bed, my brother and sister took the piss out of me for it to start with :mad:

well screw them tink.

It is the flag of the english speaking peoples. We should all rally around &ct.

Here is to the Army and Navy and the Battles they've won.
The red, white and blue, the colours that will never run.

It's a remnant of anglocentric racism and imperialism!

Kill, kill, kill da white man!

It's a remnant of anglocentric racism and imperialism!

Kill, kill, kill da white man!
I'm sorry, did you just complain about racism then say 'Kill, kill, kill da white man!'?! :rolleyes:

It's a remnant of anglocentric racism and imperialism!

Kill, kill, kill da white man!

of course, anglo meaning good, and centrism, meaning even more good.

Hence anglocentrism = really really good.

I voted other, and here is my solution.

First, take the flag of the annex...I mean union. Then throw it on the ground and stamp upon it for five minutes. Other petty defecations at this point are acceptable, I myself am particularly fond of urinating upon it (though it should be noted that this step is purely optional). Then one must dose the flag with a suitable flammable liquid, petrol, napalm, ye olde englishe cider are all examples. Salt it, dance upon it shouting 'Ten thousand curses be upon this symbol of imperialism' before setting it aflame (Note: I find that it is advisable to cease dancing upon the flag before setting it on fire). Then stand, with patriotic tears reflecting the inferno of nationalism, as you salute and sing 'God save mien Fühe...I mean Queen'.

I voted other, and here is my solution.

First, take the flag of the annex...I mean union. Then throw it on the ground and stamp upon it for five minutes. Other petty defecations at this point are acceptable, I myself am particularly fond of urinating upon it (though it should be noted that this step is purely optional). Then one must dose the flag with a suitable flammable liquid, petrol, napalm, ye olde englishe cider are all examples. Salt it, dance upon it shouting 'Ten thousand curses be upon this symbol of imperialism' before setting it aflame (Note: I find that it is advisable to cease dancing upon the flag before setting it on fire). Then stand, with patriotic tears reflecting the inferno of nationalism, as you salute and sing 'God save mien Fühe...I mean Queen'.
:eek: :( :mad: :sniper:

I voted other, and here is my solution.

First, take the flag of the annex...I mean union. Then throw it on the ground and stamp upon it for five minutes. Other petty defecations at this point are acceptable, I myself am particularly fond of urinating upon it (though it should be noted that this step is purely optional). Then one must dose the flag with a suitable flammable liquid, petrol, napalm, ye olde englishe cider are all examples. Salt it, dance upon it shouting 'Ten thousand curses be upon this symbol of imperialism' before setting it aflame (Note: I find that it is advisable to cease dancing upon the flag before setting it on fire). Then stand, with patriotic tears reflecting the inferno of nationalism, as you salute and sing 'God save mien Fühe...I mean Queen'.


Very good. You either depise what you are, or you hate the british.

You are a credit to your non-existent community,

Very good. You either depise what you are, or you hate the british.


Actually I am both. I hate Britain. Poland is much, much better.

Actually I am both. I hate Britain. Poland is much, much better.

Well go live there.

I don't care. If you fail to make the high standard of the english speaking peoples, why should it be my concern? IIRC, Poland is not even a country,

Well go live there.

I don't care. If you fail to make the high standard of the English speaking peoples, why should it be my concern? IIRC, Poland is not even a country,

High standard? Sir, you doth mock me. England, this sceptre’d isle of Chav's and gun crime and drugs smuggling. England, this nation of an un-written constitution and highest under age pregnancy rate in Europe. England, this cesspit of rain and general canine poop. This was once the land of Shakespeare and Marlowe, now it is a land of a poet who can't find a rhyme for 'Wilkinson'.

Oh, just for your information, Poland is a country. I have been there. Unless it has collapsed since then and been annexed by Russia or Germany, it is still a country. I think it is an excellent example of the failings of our education system if you do not even know that Poland is a country.

High standard? Sir, you doth mock me. England, this sceptre’d isle of Chav's and gun crime and drugs smuggling. England, this nation of an un-written constitution and highest under age pregnancy rate in Europe. England, this cesspit of rain and general canine poop. This was once the land of Shakespeare and Marlowe, now it is a land of a poet who can't find a rhyme for 'Wilkinson'.

Oh, just for your information, Poland is a country. I have been there. Unless it has collapsed since then and been annexed by Russia or Germany, it is still a country. I think it is an excellent example of the failings of our education system if you do not even know that Poland is a country.

Now here I was thinking it was a linguistic group, which claimed to be a country.
(Not to mention the trouble it caused before WWII).

Like I said, you are welcome to leave,

[sarcasm]Yes! I will just jump on a plane now and leave behind my family and my education![/i]

You obviously know very little about Poland. Poland was a nation long before Britain, and has been invaded multiple times because, unlike our nation, it does not have a particualrly favourable geographical location. And you say that Poland caused trouble before WW2? Now I am amazed, pray sir explain your historical insight here.

[sarcasm]Yes! I will just jump on a plane now and leave behind my family and my education![/i]

You obviously know very little about Poland. Poland was a nation long before Britain, and has been invaded multiple times because, unlike our nation, it does not have a particualrly favourable geographical location. And you say that Poland caused trouble before WW2? Now I am amazed, pray sir explain your historical insight here.

You hate britain, leave,

Go away, we don't need you. (except for that education thing that we provided you with).

And yah, poland did indeed cause trouble before WWII. IIRC, you all wanted a part of the Nazi spoils, until they turned on you.

[sarcasm]Yes! I will just jump on a plane now and leave behind my family and my education![/i]

You obviously know very little about Poland. Poland was a nation long before Britain, and has been invaded multiple times because, unlike our nation, it does not have a particualrly favourable geographical location. And you say that Poland caused trouble before WW2? Now I am amazed, pray sir explain your historical insight here.


Before WWII... Poland was the most powerful empire of Europe from the 14th til the 16th century... the Poles attempted on many occasions to overthrow the monarchy in Sweden, not to mention waging imperialistic wars and intrigues against neighbors, like Saxony. Poland also caused the one and only Time of Troubles (1598-1613) by meddling with the Russian monarchy... the Poles ended up invading Russia and sacked Moscow (!!).

Good thing you evil Polish imperialists got your comeuppance in the 18th century when Austria, Prussia, and Russia tired of your antics and simply exterminated the Polish state from existence. (jk on the evil part :D )

You hate britain, leave,

Go away, we don't need you. (except for that education thing that we provided you with).

This is a somewhat bigoted opinion don't you think? I mean, are you prepared to actually discuss the issues at hand or are you just going to scream 'LEAVE NOW!!' in my face?

And yah, poland did indeed cause trouble before WWII. IIRC, you all wanted a part of the Nazi spoils, until they turned on you.

Not really so, seeing as at that point in time Poland was a dictatorship and thus not representative of the people and thus the Poles themselves cannot be held accountable for the governments actions. Oh and 'IIRC' I am not Polish.

Before WWII... Poland was probably the most powerful empire of Europe during the 16th, the Poles attempted on many occasions to overthrow the monarchy in Sweden, not to mention waging imperialistic wars and intrigues against neighbors, like Saxony. Poland also caused the one and only Time of Troubles in Russia by meddling with the Russian monarchy... the Poles ended up invading Russia and sacked Moscow (!!).

Good thing you evil Polish imperialists got your comeuppance in the 18th century when Austria, Prussia, and Russia tired of your antics and simply exterminated the Polish state from existence. (jk on the evil part )

Yes, but when before WW2 was mentioned I assumed it to mean the period immediately preceding the war. Poland has a checkered past yes, like any country (Britain being a prime example, first concentration camps anyone?).

And, again, I am not Polish.

High standard? Sir, you doth mock me. England, this sceptre’d isle of Chav's and gun crime and drugs smuggling. England, this nation of an un-written constitution and highest under age pregnancy rate in Europe. England, this cesspit of rain and general canine poop. This was once the land of Shakespeare and Marlowe, now it is a land of a poet who can't find a rhyme for 'Wilkinson'.

And that's your argument for hating Britain. Britain is more than the scummy tossers you describe. It's got ancient history, beautiful country side, and lovely, intelligent people.
If that's not the Britain you know, you're mixing in the wrong circles and whose fault is that?
Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the Waves...

Yes, but when before WW2 was mentioned I assumed it to mean the period immediately preceding the war. Poland has a checkered past yes, like any country (Britain being a prime example, first concentration camps anyone?).

And, again, I am not Polish.
Meh, my post was half joking. Unlike some folks, I don't trouble myself with a mortal grudge against any nation, and I'm sure that today Britain and Poland, are both great countries with lots of great people.

This is a somewhat bigoted opinion don't you think? I mean, are you prepared to actually discuss the issues at hand or are you just going to scream 'LEAVE NOW!!' in my face?

Not really, you made it very clear that you are ashamed to be an English Speaking person, so 'leave'. Give it up, quit, &ct,



Not really so, seeing as at that point in time Poland was a dictatorship and thus not representative of the people and thus the Poles themselves cannot be held accountable for the governments actions. Oh and 'IIRC' I am not Polish.

Well, if the 'country' you laud so much could not even be bothered to get a decent government, well then it deserved what it got. IIRC, you seemed to love it a lot before, please go there. At any rate, poles are rubbish troops.


Yes, but when before WW2 was mentioned I assumed it to mean the period immediately preceding the war. Poland has a checkered past yes, like any country (Britain being a prime example, first concentration camps anyone?).


One of the big problems in the days leading up to WWII, was why should the western powers guarantee 'poland's ' territorial integrity, because after all, they were quite happy to take a chunk of Czechoslovakia - also not a country, but let's face it potentially at least a decent ally when compared to poland.

And, again, I am not Polish.

So what are you then. Not british I hope.

And that's your argument for hating Britain. Britain is more than the scummy tossers you describe. It's got ancient history, beautiful country side, and lovely, intelligent people.
If that's not the Britain you know, you're mixing in the wrong circles and whose fault is that?
Rule Britannia, Britannia Rules the Waves...

My friend, my friend, you should realise that of course I do not 'hate' England. I do not 'hate' the people of these islands. What I dislike immensly is the culture of inequality in Britain, the Monarchy, the unwritten constitution, the fact that the Isle of Mann has more power than Scotland etc. and to me the flag, which this friend is all about, represents everything that I loathe (and not the things that I love) about our nation.

Meh, my post was half joking. Unlike some folks, I don't trouble myself with a mortal grudge against any nation, and I'm sure that today Britain and Poland, are both great countries with lots of great people.

Fair enough :)

Fueling power and glory fever
Makes for a sicker Union Jack

A flag is just a symbol, and I leave symbols to the symbol-minded.

Besides, when it comes to the ridiculous lengths people go to preserve the "dignity" of a piece of cloth, you've got to hand it to the erstwhile Confederacy here in the US. Best thing ever was when Blacks started putting the Confederate Battle Flag on their cars and calling it the "Black Power Flag" -- it happened in Columbia, South Carolina, according to Percival Everett in his essay "On The Appropriation Of Cultures" from his collection Damned If I Do. Seems after enough crackers saw Black sporting the "Black Power Flag", the Confederate Battle Flag was taken off of the South Carolina state house, thereby accomplishing through appropriation what legislation and debate could not.

Yes, my country is currently a bit of a mess, but stuff like that does make me proud.

His Benevolence, Magister Jubal Harshaw of Intangelon

Not really, you made it very clear that you are ashamed to be an English Speaking person, so 'leave'. Give it up, quit, &ct,

No sir, I laud the English language. The language of Byron, Shakespeare, Marlowe, some of the greatest poets of all time.





Well, if the 'country' you laud so much could not even be bothered to get a decent government, well then it deserved what it got. IIRC, you seemed to love it a lot before, please go there. At any rate, poles are rubbish troops.,

I take it that last comment was designed to be sarcastic? You seriously blame an entire people for the establishment of a dictatorship in the choas of the post first world war enviroment?



One of the big problems in the days leading up to WWII, was why should the western powers guarantee 'poland's ' territorial integrity, because after all, they were quite happy to take a chunk of Czechoslovakia - also not a country, but let's face it potentially at least a decent ally when compared to poland. ,

Erm no, one of the big problems leading up to WW2 was our cowardice. The Spanish Civil War. Abbyssinia. Manchuria. Munich. Also, just so you know, Poland fourght to the end. Czechoslokia (a British creation) surrendered.

So what are you then. Not british I hope.

Yup, born and bred in Nottingham.

meh, its a flag, it flies from the top of a flag pole (or more commonly a street light), and its got some crosses on it.

My friend, my friend, you should realise that of course I do not 'hate' England. I do not 'hate' the people of these islands. What I dislike immensly is the culture of inequality in Britain, the Monarchy, the unwritten constitution, the fact that the Isle of Mann has more power than Scotland etc. and to me the flag, which this friend is all about, represents everything that I loathe (and not the things that I love) about our nation.

Well it sounded like you hated Britain in your original posts.
I think you'll find inequality everywhere, at least in Britain no-one need starve.
I like the Monarchy, they're an honourable tradition. Like a soap opera that will be around long after Coronation Street. I'd rather have the royals living in luxury than just a few nameless janitors and maids. They effectively cost very little but bring a lot of wealth to the country. And Prince Charles at least speaks his mind and makes some sense to me!
I'm also not interested in a written constitution, never needed one before and it does nothing but cause problems in America.
I'm pretty sure both the Isle of Mann and Scotland are happy enough without needing you to worry about their goverments.
Nope, if that's all you're worried about then you worry about nothing. Try travelling around the country, meet people, just keep away from them cocaine sniffing, gun-toting chavs!

Now, primarily I want to say that nationalism and patriotism are either pointless or worse, and that there's really not a healthy sort as often claimed, and that telling someone to live abroad because they don't like something about Britain, something that often turns out to be its foreign policy, well, that's just massively stupid, don't you think? "You don't like the way we bomb foreign countries? Then go and live in one!"

That said, I still can't help being annoyed by little things such as that little, "Britannia rules the waves" outburst as much for the fact that it's rule, not rules, as for that it's blatantly untrue and wouldn't really be a good thing were it not.

I used to be depressed by people -even military bases, at times- flying the flag upside down when they didn't intend to signal any sort of distress, but then I stopped being a teenager and now I just couldn't care less, or perhaps would go as far to say that I'm pleased about the gradual erosion of nationalism.

Edit: Oh, monarchy too, now? Well, I'll add that while I'm no fan of the institution or of the individuals, I'm also no Republican, and don't see how getting rid of the monarchy without completely overhauling society would help us. For now they protect certain basic rights that I'd rather not see any Blairites get their bloody hands upon.

That said, I still can't help being annoyed by little things such as that little, "Britannia rules the waves" outburst as much for the fact that it's rule, not rules, as for that it's blatantly untrue and wouldn't really be a good thing were it not.

Well, I must apologise for annoying you with a little patriotic song. It wasn't meant literally, the context was purely being proud to be British.
Although I do think you were being a bit over-sensitive and pedantic with my misquote.

Well, I must apologise for annoying you with a little patriotic song. It wasn't meant literally, the context was purely being proud to be British.
Although I do think you were being a bit over-sensitive and pedantic with my misquote.

Oh, I wouldn't have bothered to say anything if it were just you. It's just that it seems to me that probably more than 90% of that song's renditions in print or voice get it wrong, and it always used to annoy me while I was what you might call a patriot. Now I don't care on the same level, but I can't help twitching at the mistake when it crops up... time and again.

Uhm, anyway, carry on.

I suppose I'd better look up the lyrics now and correct my ignorance! :)

*makes some waves in a pond and gives the pond to the Brits to rule it?*

Why? Aren't you proud of your heritage? Or does it embarrass you?
Of course they are ashamed if they were proud they would have a.....
A White fist pinching money from a purse and a cop shooting an Aboriginie(SP)(It was still happening in the 1980's)

In New Zealand we are having the same issue.
We need 300,000 signatures on a petition before it will go to Parliment but only 300,000 people want a change of flag not 300K want to change the flag the same way.

So when the 300K can agree on the same design then it should be considered otherwise Union Jack!

Of course they are ashamed if they were proud they would have a.....
A White fist pinching money from a purse and a cop shooting an Aboriginie(SP)(It was still happening in the 1980's)

In New Zealand we are having the same issue.
We need 300,000 signatures on a petition before it will go to Parliment but only 300,000 people want a change of flag not 300K want to change the flag the same way.

So when the 300K can agree on the same design then it should be considered otherwise Union Jack!
What was still happening 'recently' was being performed by the Australians and Newzealanders, not the British. Unless of course you want to blame the British for everything bad and nothing good since the first landing until the flag is changed, which appears to be what most think.

Since 3/4s of Ireland left the UK, shouldn't they take 3/4's of St. Patrick's Cross off of the flag??

Wales is not represented by virtue of being a conquered country...

As such we don't care what you do with the Union Flag... Just don't make us fly it

Don't think Scotland or Ireland joined voluntarily.

Well, the Scots were "persuaded" to join over "several" years, and after Culloden they... gave up and joined.

Well, the Scots were "persuaded" to join over "several" years, and after Culloden they... gave up and joined.
They were paid good money to disolve the gov, which they have not paid back since starting another.

Don't think Scotland or Ireland joined voluntarily.

I think the difference is that Wales became part of Britain (England) by being conquered. Scotland and Ireland became part of the UK through Acts of Union (even if they were coerced).

Specifically...

The Union Flag is the normative flag flown on land....

The "Ensign" is flown from vessels... Civilian vessels fly either a red "ensign" which is a red flag with the "Union" in the upper left corner (POV) or the normative Union Flag, Government vessels fly a blue "ensign" with the Union in the upper left (POV), and Naval vessels a "white" bearing a Red Cross with the Union in the upper left (POV) bordering the cross...

The Union Jack on naval vessels is flown from the jackstaff (bow) of the vessel, but only when the vessel is ported.

(This is comparible to the "Union Jack" of USA vessels [blue field with white stars] flown from the jackstaff, as compared to the normal US flag flown in the rear...)

Flag etiquette: Flags are not to be used as clothing. The flag of a living nation should always be treated with respect; as if it was a person (it is considered a living emblem of a living nation). Within the respective territory; the flag is always to fly above all other flags [the only place this is violated, is the UN campus)... All other flags are subordinate; and should be flown below; or to the Union's left [representative of superiority]. It should never be allowed to drape on the ground; but should be held aloft and in a dignified manner.

Officially, however, the Union Flag, which was directly pulled from the Union Jack, was never adopted, in law, for use by civilians... Though the Queen Allowed for it's usage in a parliamentary answer... Officially the UK does not have a National Flag, though in practicality it does... The Union is actually a Royal Flag, given permission of use by the Queen. [The UK has over 500 representative flags for various offices and uses].