NationStates Jolt Archive

Will it still be Democracy anymore? One candidate, One Party, One set of political ideology running the entire country.

How could anyone want a political party to be destroyed? They talk like Dictators!

There are always independant parties

I, for one, would love to see the Democratic party shatter. It's too far to the right for my tastes.

A new, true leftist party would be more desirable. For me, anyway.

If the Dems go, some Republicans will take the oppritunity to form their own parties. Then again, the Republican party was near death for decades, so I wouldn't worry too much.

Wait, why the Democrats?

I, for one, would love to see the Democratic party shatter. It's too far to the right for my tastes.

A new, true leftist party would be more desirable. For me, anyway.
How are democrats CURRENTLY bad?

Even if the Democratic Party stops being viable on a national level for an extended period of time, it will still continue to thrive on local and state levels.

Read my post. I said the party as a whole is too far to the right for my liking. But that's my opinion.

Wait, why the Democrats?
There are a majority of reps right now

There are a majority of reps right now

Not by much.

Hey, that's one funeral I'd love to attend. A good Irish wake followed by dancing in the streets. What a wonderful idea. It could then be replaced by the Libetarians, or possibly the Centrist Party. :D

house majority: Republican
senate majority: Republican


(not sure what the "reps" comment was about..)

I don't think they will die, just go into decline for awhile. If they did fall apart a new party with similar beliefs would take their place. It would never be a one party system.

yeah, lol

the

Centrist
Realism-
Apropos
Party

C.R.A.P.

hehe

then i wont have much to laugh at . well...wait. yes i will.

So, I missed the part of my civics class where they said that once a party has a minority in both houses, no matter how close, and two presidencies in a row by no matter how small a margin that the party is then disbanded.

This is absolutely ridiculous-and the greatest verification of the dual theories of 'minimal plausibility' and 'white noise.' If something is plausible sounding without much examination (they don't have a majority in either house and lost the presidency: However, majorities have been lost for longer periods of time and by greater margins, and the elections for presidency has been closer than ever-with such close oppossition is suddenly going to roll over, why?) and then repeated over and over again it becomes a 'truth', every pundet has it on thier lips-enough noise and even pundits on the other side start to address it-regardless of it only being minimally plausible.

Sorry, kids. These elections where closely contested and the opposite side, the near HALF the voters are not simply going to roll over after a loss. But hey, keep pumping out that fantasy-those are the tools that won you an election, so it's only natural that you stick with what worked.

Will it still be Democracy anymore? One candidate, One Party, One set of political ideology running the entire country.

How could anyone want a political party to be destroyed? They talk like Dictators!
Who is talking "like Dictators?" I haven't heard of anyone wanting to destroy the Democratic Party.

In the unlikely event that the Democratic Party self-destructs it will be largely their own doing, and the Republican Party would probably split, with one keeping the name and the other probably merging with the Libertarians and perhaps a few former Democrats.

If the democrats died out, the republican party would split into moderates and conservatices, with each party going further and further away from the center, so eventually you'd have another democratic party.

Eventually.

But they won't die out. EVER.

*smokes some weed*

<<<<<<<<<<<snip>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry, kids. These elections where closely contested and the opposite side, the near HALF the voters are not simply going to roll over after a loss. But hey, keep pumping out that fantasy-those are the tools that won you an election, so it's only natural that you stick with what worked.wait. i think i am on to something. cannot, are you a Democrat?

wait. i think i am on to something. cannot, are you a Democrat?
Nope. I have never registered in either party.

How are the Democrats near death? The Republicans were down to 17 Senators and about 50 Representatives in 1940, after having lost the presidency three times, but they bounced back in the 1950s.

Will it still be Democracy anymore? One candidate, One Party, One set of political ideology running the entire country.

How could anyone want a political party to be destroyed? They talk like Dictators!

Our system doesn't even need such stringent political parties to survive (although the two main ones do everything they can to keep putting all the power in the hands of a select few).

Here's an interesting thought though, the Republicans would do everything they can to keep the Democratic party from disbanding. After all, if any new major party came along, they might lose voters and thus lose power. In the end, that is really what politics is about. I seriously doubt that more than one or two of the senators in the Senate, for example, actually give a damn about anything more than money in their pockets and power in their hands.

What if the Democratic Party dies?

Then we're takin' all you other fuckos out with us!

Nope. I have never registered in either party.
maybe i should have said liberal.

How are the Democrats near death?

They aren't. The blue states are just paranoid. Sure, were slowly starting to lean republican but thats the way democracy goes. Besides once the American crusade on terrorism ends and people aren't so scared anymore they'll stop voting because of 'morals' and all that other crap the Republicans were talking about during the '04 election.

maybe i should have said liberal.
Depends on the weathervane you're using. Probably, if it makes things easier for people. I don't care what I'm called for the most part.

EDIT: I should say that in this I am far more interested in how ideas are generated and spread, how the media (not the unified rambling monster of 'the liberal media' or 'conservative media' but media as a matter of conveying information) works on public perception.

I haven't heard of anyone wanting to destroy the Democratic Party.
Then you haven't been listening to the people saying that the Dems are squarely under control of the communists, and should all be shot for treason.
:D
I wish I could find that website, but I seem not to have bookmarked it. Shame, it was rather funny.

If the democratic parties dies then I'm just going to have to secure The US. I'd sell personal nuclear weapons to all the republicans(for a very low price of $9.95) and remotely arm them all. You know what happens next. One party in control of a nation is political suicide and would eventually become more corrupt than the US has ever been. Even if the republican party died the same thing would take effect. We need some yin/yangness.

Then you haven't been listening to the people saying that the Dems are squarely under control of the communists, and should all be shot for treason.
:D
I wish I could find that website, but I seem not to have bookmarked it. Shame, it was rather funny.

Man, what I'd pay to read that.

My theory is that one of the Big Two will die and be replaced sometime in the future, maybe fifty or sixty yars.

Actually theres more political parties than Democrat and Republican, those two are just the major ones, but yeah theres indpendent parties like the Green Party, the Socialist Party, whatever the hell other parties out there....

Then you haven't been listening to the people saying that the Dems are squarely under control of the communists, and should all be shot for treason.
:D
I wish I could find that website, but I seem not to have bookmarked it. Shame, it was rather funny.
It sounds funny as hell! Apparently, if there's only the one Website, there aren't many advocating the destruction of the Democratic Party. If you look hard enough, you can find some nutcase on the Internet advocating doing away with motherhood and apple pie, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen. :D

I'd say that the concern is unfounded. We have to remember, there was a Democrat President only 5 years ago, and he smashed his opponents. Political power bounces back and forth (the Democrats were in power almost the whole time from 1933-1968), and the American people will shift back and forth. I am tired of the Republican power majority because a lot of things have gotten worse since they came to power, and I imagine many centrists and moderate Republicans are too. We may see a rebound in 2008 depending on who runs as the Democratic candidate.

I personally think that the party system stinks, anyway. No one party can portray what the majority of people really, truly want. The best thing that could happen is for the party system to be dissolved altogether. Maybe then people will decide based on what they really feel they want, instead of what their party supposedly supports.

In case you can't tell from that paragraph, I'm highly antipolitical.

In truth, my hope is not that one party or both parties fall, but that *all* do. They exist specifically to put power in the hands of whatever club someone wants to say they belong to, not to be an effective arm of government.

There is plenty of information these days to be able to vote on the *candidate*, rather than what antiquated party with "ideals" that they don't hold to unless someone is paying attention tells them to vote for.

It won't happen. And if one party dies off, it's because another party has taken its place.

I would like more strong, mainstream parties to establish a checks and balances system on each party. Since they have to compete for the same amount of influence but with more competitiors, they would be much harder pressed to actually fulfill campaign promises and live up to their message.

I'd organize them based upon political alignment:

1. Right Wing Party
2. Left Wing Party
3. Some Kind of Libertarian Party
4. A Centrist Party
5. A Labor Party

Will it still be Democracy anymore? One candidate, One Party, One set of political ideology running the entire country.

How could anyone want a political party to be destroyed? They talk like Dictators!

Bad...Not good...eep...

(explodes)

There's only one party in local government in the city of Washington D.C.
The Democratic Party.
Once they hold their local primary, the elections are essentially over.
They say it's democracy - even though you can count the Republican votes on one set of toes.

There's only one party in local government in the city of Washington D.C.
The Democratic Party.
Once they hold their local primary, the elections are essentially over.
They say it's democracy - even though you can count the Republican votes on one set of toes.

That's why I don't like having DC be a separate political entity. I'd just make it part of Virginia and be done with it. I mean, who reallly cares which state has the national capital? I don't.

That's why I don't like having DC be a separate political entity. I'd just make it part of Virginia and be done with it. I mean, who reallly cares which state has the national capital? I don't.
I care. I live in Virginia. Give it to Maryland, or make it a remote part of Rhode Island.

I haven't heard of anyone wanting to destroy the Democratic Party.

In the unlikely event that the Democratic Party self-destructs it will be largely their own doing,...

It will self-destruct after the next election. A new party that is more centrist will rise up from the ashes. They will call themselves the Truman Democrats, or the American Democratic Party or something like that. Hillary, Howard, John, and Teddy will be banished from the political realm. There will be celebrations and dancing in the streets. :D

How are the Democrats near death? The Republicans were down to 17 Senators and about 50 Representatives in 1940, after having lost the presidency three times, but they bounced back in the 1950s.

I like Ike.

It will self-destruct after the next election. A new party that is more centrist will rise up from the ashes. They will call themselves the Truman Democrats, or the American Democratic Party or something like that. Hillary, Howard, John, and Teddy will be banished from the political realm. There will be celebrations and dancing in the streets. :D

I do hope you're just kidding.

I care. I live in Virginia. Give it to Maryland, or make it a remote part of Rhode Island.

Oh yeah, sorry. I didn't think anyone wants DC. It's like a landfill or a nuclear waste dump: a really strong NIMBY.

My theory is that one of the Big Two will die and be replaced sometime in the future, maybe fifty or sixty yars.

You mean I'm going to have to live to 112 or 122 years old to see it? :eek:

I do hope you're just kidding.

Yep! :D

How are the Democrats near death? The Republicans were down to 17 Senators and about 50 Representatives in 1940, after having lost the presidency three times, but they bounced back in the 1950s.

It boils down to a few main areas:

1) Raw Political Power: Over the last 40 years, the power of the Democratic Party has declined immensely. In 1968, the Dems controlled the executive, a solid portion of the political power in both houses of the legislature, and had a fairly firm control over the judiciary, especially with Justice Potter at the helm of the Supreme Court. At state and local levels, the Democratic Party was competitive everywhere it wasn't dominant. Hell, in 1968, the Democratic Party was just two elections from the last time it won the state of Idaho, the most socially authoritarian/religiously freaky state in the union. Their lead senatorial delegate, Senator Church, was more liberal than Tom Daschle in 2002.

Compare that with today: the Democratic Party has no control over the executive branch and at best a tenuous hold in both the judiciary and legislative branches of government. At the local level, the Democratic Party has solid hold only over the most liberal bastions in the country like Berkeley California and Boston, MA. In most other places in the country, you can't even find a Democrat, much less run him/her with any hope of success.

2) Political Ideology: The main problem here is that the Democrats don't have one. In point of fact, you'll probably find as many political ideologies among the Democratic Party as there are Democrats. Compare that with the two dominant and cohesive ideologies of the Republican party: social authoriatarianism (or more euphamistically, social conservatives), and anarcho-capitalism. . .er, libertarianism.

Now, I'll not comment here on how incoherent these two doctrines are when mixed together as the Republicans seem to have done, nor will I comment on how incoherent each of these doctrines are with themselves and the principles of American democracy, as that is not the point of the post. The point, however, is that there is no "message" that Democrats are united on, no underlying belief that they all share, besides perhaps a vague commitment to social justice, although what social justice is I suspect would be yet another hotly disputed topic were it brought up at the Democratic Convention. The Republicans do. That I think more than any other is the real reason underlying why Democrats seem so incoherent on the national stage: they can greatly articulate issues, but they wouldn't know an overarching theory for how human society ought to be constructed if it bit them in the ass. The Republicans have a bad theory, to be sure, but they at least have a theory.

3) Hearts and minds: The Democratic Party, simply put has neither the ability to reach nor influence public political opinion. The best they've managed thus far is Air America, which is then compared to things like Fox News, Matt Drudge, Rush Limbaugh and promptly flattened. The Republicans great success in the last 40 years has not been that they changed their views: their views today are more or less the same as Barry Goldwater's. Why then has Bush been lauded for his actions while Goldwater was smothered in the '64 election? It's because the Republicans systematically went out and began developing a propaganda machine that made Goldwater's message palatable to the people through the blunt-force trauma approach of repeating talking points over and over again. The Democratic Party can't hope to compete with that kind of propaganda organization.

What, in sum total, do these three points mean? Well, they basically add up to fewer people espousing a variety of viewpoints who can't get their message out. Is it any wonder then that people look at this cocktail and describe it with the words "fragile" and "volatile"?

Yeah, I have to agree I think the Democrats are losing steam, and I don't think its a trend that's likely to stop in the near future. The differences between the two parties are now pretty rare and pretty ill-defined, so it's probably not that hard for a lot of democratic voters to start rationalizing their viewpoints with the Republican platform. The thing a lot of people don't realize about the republicans is that they are not the Party of personal responsibility and small government like they say they are. The Republicans are the Party that knows what it wants and knows how to get it. If that means telling the public that they're the 'Party of personal responsibility and smaller government,' then so be it. The fact of the matter remains that our last two republican Presidents were much more fiscally liberal than, say, Clinton. But Clinton's a Democrat! He's supposed to be a big spender!

The things that are going on in this country now are the things the Republicans really stand for: they don't have much reason for fucking around anymore since the GOP now controls all three branches of government. So apparently they stand for selective tax cuts, outrageous government spending, and the slow destruction of our civil liberties.

If the American public catches on and starts noticing this, I can see a rift forming in the Republican party and the Libertarian movement becomes the new, 'adjusted' Right, with the Republicans and the remnants of the Democratic party staying closer to the left. But that could just be me hoping for an impossible future. I lost a lot of faith in our collective decision making ability when Bush was re-elected. How anyone can say the man who turned the largest budget surplus in American history into the largest budget deficit in American history was a "good president" is beyond me.