NationStates Jolt Archive

China and India sign border accord

Monday, April 11, 2005 Posted: 8:19 AM EDT (1219 GMT)

Wen and Singh announce the border agreement Monday in New Delhi.
NEW DELHI, India -- China and India have signed an agreement aimed at ending a 53-year-old border dispute between the world's two most populous countries.

The pact, reached Monday in New Delhi, calls for diplomatic relations, economic ties and contribute to the two nations "jointly addressing global challenges and threats," a joint statement said. Relations between India and China, who fought a bitter border war in 1962, have "acquired a global and strategic character," it said.

The agreement came after talks between Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and other government leaders. "The leaders of the two countries have therefore agreed to establish an India-China strategic and cooperative partnership for peace and prosperity," the statement said.

Speaking earlier Monday, Singh said: "India and China can together reshape the world order." Wen told reporters the two countries were "working to promote friendly ties of cooperation."

Senior officials have set out an 11-point plan to resolve the dispute over their 3,500-kilometer (2,200-mile) Himalayan border, Indian newspapers reported Monday.

China has never officially recognized India's 1975 annexation of the territory known as Sikkim, which was once an independent princely kingdom. The two countries also signed a raft of agreements for cooperation in such diverse areas as civil aviation, finance, education, science and technology, tourism and cultural exchanges, The Association Press reported.

One of the agreements calls for a boost in bilateral trade to $20 billion by 2008. Last year, trade totaled $13.6 billion, with India recording a trade surplus of $1.75 billion, AP reported. China and India also want to develop a free trade area between the two countries. With a combined population of 2 billion, it would be the the largest free trade bloc in the world.

Wen and Singh agreed Monday to set up a panel of experts to study the feasibility and benefits that would accrue from establishing such a trade area. During a visit on Sunday to India's southern technology hub of Bangalore, Wen said China and India should work together to lead the world in information technology, jointly heralding a new "Asian century."

"I strongly believe that if we join hands together, we will certainly be able to set a new trail in the IT business world. When the particular day comes, it will signify the coming of the Asian century of the IT industry," Wen said in an address to information technology professionals in Bangalore.

India has gained global reputation as a hub for software professionals while China is strong on computer hardware. Wen suggested the neighbors should collaborate, not compete. "Cooperation is just like two pagodas (temples), one hardware and one software," Wen said.

"Combined, we can take the leadership position in the world," he said. Wen appealed to Indian software companies to set up operations in China to tap the Chinese and global markets.

He later met scientists and visited the research facilities at the headquarters of the Indian Space Research Organization in Bangalore. Last year, China became the first Asian power to launch a man into orbit. India has announced similar ambitions.

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SWEET. Finally some real damn competition!

The next two great economic super powers with two billion people. America and Europe are about to be roxxored. Now the United States can either innovate or stagnate. I know my country will innovate.

An Alliance Between America-India-China would be the beginning of a new world order. :)

Won't last that entire region hates each other.

China sees india as a threat to tibet, and if the maoists win in nepal the whole thing will tip over all again.

good for them. they say china's economy is the fastest growing in the world, but people usually neglect to mention that it is still roughly 30 years behind europe and america at its current rate of growth. this will definatley speed things up for them, if they can pull it off.

i say this is a good arguement for further European economic and political integration

I suppose its encouraging that resources will be taken away from armed border tension, and routed toward research. I wonder whether a trend like this will help expand the middle class in both countries, and if that will in turn yield political shift of some kind.

I've never been to India or China, the only Asian nation I've lived in is Japan. Is it true that their infrastructure is presently limited by goverment difficulties? I imagine that in addition to IT, the task of developing their civic assets would be an opportunity to economic growth.

Not sure I see a lot of immediate potential for a U.S./Sino-Indian pack, but yeah, it would definitely be a potent line. Maybe in 2035, we'll see the "Treaty of Taipei"...

Say, Nikoko, you never elaborated for me on how I was corrupting science in Reformentia's thread about Creationists and Viral DNA markers. I'm not saying your wrong, but if I'm guilty I'd like to better understand it. :)

Yes... my theory is coming true. I'd share my theory but I want to see how things play out. Your move, Russia.

That's strange. Isn't China traditionally an ally of Pakistan?

China and India sign treaty to rival America and Europe
oh noes!

Seriously, though, it sounds like a good thing for the people of both nations, but for Europe? Could it mean more job losses as there is now another reason for corporations to relocate to China and India?

That's strange. Isn't China traditionally an ally of Pakistan?
during the cold war, yes. things change though when there's money to be made.

That's strange. Isn't China traditionally an ally of Pakistan?

Lately, India and Pakistan have been moving closer to peace. Well, they still have a long way to go but both countries are making an effort and that's what counts.

An alliance of India, Pakistan, and China could be very impressive to say the least.

during the cold war, yes. things change though when there's money to be made.

One wonders if this is in any way in response to the United States and Pakistan's strengthening diplomatic ties.

Won't last that entire region hates each other.

China sees india as a threat to tibet, and if the maoists win in nepal the whole thing will tip over all again.
Well China and India both hate the Nepal Maoists. The Chinese veiw them as an embarrasment making their beloved Mao look bad, while Maoists have been fighting guerilla war for a long time in India's countrysides. A big part of the reason why India's social democratic Congress party came to power in the last election was because the Maoists let the Indian peasents vote. Ussually they "ask' the peasents to boycott the elections so if you are a peasent and you vote, you end up dead.

As far as boarder issues, the Chinese and Indians are close to hammering these out. The Indians are more concerned with Kashmir and the Chinese Taiwan, to think about slugging it out over the Himalayas again.

This diplomatic love fest in my view is a counter to the extensive US base building in Central Asia. The US is or has built bases throughout the region from Afghanistan to Uzbekistan to Tajikistan. The US thinking ahead to the day when India and China start to become even close to becoming developed nations they are going to need a LOT of oil. The US is moving its forces out of Europe and North East Asia inorder to build a vast network of Central Asian and Middle Eastern bases to maintain a stranglehold on the World's energy. A China-India-Russia block is seeking to build its strength to counter the US and push them out Central Asia, or at least counter their influence.

Say, Nikoko, you never elaborated for me on how I was corrupting science in Reformentia's thread about Creationists and Viral DNA markers. I'm not saying your wrong, but if I'm guilty I'd like to better understand it. :)

Sorry, I didn't direct it to you personally. I was just reminding everybody that we should stay objective, else we arn't scientists. We should live to disprove our theories, only in our ability not to disprove does it become respectable. :)


Some people try to defend Evolution like it is the word of god, they become what they hate most. We are human, we acknowledge that, that's what makes us scientists. ;)

I love it. As Hu Jintao said, China is the hardware, India is the software. Together, they can work beautifully.
However, I wouldn't see a free trade agreement possible for over the next twenty years. The two countries are too different, and their people harbor too much resentment for eachother.

I love it. As Hu Jintao said, China is the hardware, India is the software. Together, they can work beautifully.
However, I wouldn't see a free trade agreement possible for over the next twenty years. The two countries are too different, and their people harbor too much resentment for eachother.

Like any country, they have good software engineers and many medicore to bad.

My ex-company has an office there and the software they wrote was crap. My current group the software is mediocre.

Many of the people with the brains and the knowhow leave for other countries.

I have been to India and you can't through a stick and not hit somebody who says they "know" C++. Now writing solid code is a different matter.

We will pay for our greed on this one. Intellectual property has no meaning in India and I assume China as well.

Heck one of our reps was actually expected to hand over source code to group so they could build a rival product. :rolleyes:

Ahh well time will tell.

Approximately 80 per cent of China and India remain poor farmers, many of them not even owning the land they till. A bilateral trade agreement between these two countries means very little.

The government of China itself forcasts that it will not be until 2080 that the country will be developed. I spend a lot of time in China and I can attest to the fact that, for all of the advances China has made up until now, the majority of the country is dirt poor.

Don't get me wrong. I support multilateralism and I believe the age of superpowers is on its way out, but institutional issues in those countries are going to keep them from truly "rivalling" the United States and reshape the world order, as Singh put it. And additionally, with plans in the works for agreements between North and South America, it's really a toss-up.

Now that I think of it, why do we have to compete anyway, or go into this nationalistic pride thing?

Don't get me wrong. I support multilateralism and I believe the age of superpowers is on its way out, but institutional issues in those countries are going to keep them from truly "rivalling" the United States and reshape the world order, as Singh put it.

Oh and the one thing that is never mentioned is the level of corruption in the Indian Goverment. It makes the US look like a Saint. ;)

Every Indian I have spoken has mentioned it.....

Oh and the one thing that is never mentioned is the level of corruption in the Indian Goverment. It makes the US look like a Saint. ;)

Every Indian I have spoken has mentioned it.....

That's what I (euphimistically) meant by "institutional issues." I've read enough on India to know that the government there is so deeply corrupt it's almost tragic in its consequences for the general populace.

Like any country, they have good software engineers and many medicore to bad.

My ex-company has an office there and the software they wrote was crap. My current group the software is mediocre.

Many of the people with the brains and the knowhow leave for other countries.

I have been to India and you can't through a stick and not hit somebody who says they "know" C++. Now writing solid code is a different matter.

We will pay for our greed on this one. Intellectual property has no meaning in India and I assume China as well.

Heck one of our reps was actually expected to hand over source code to group so they could build a rival product. :rolleyes:

Ahh well time will tell.

Their educated software engineers, however, number about as many, if not more than in the US because of India's size.
But that quote refers not just to software engineers, but the entire economy. China excels in manufacturing, and India has services.

And one last thing. China is not big in services of any kind. They do have a service sector, of course, but it isn't nearly as large as India's, due to the Communists repressive policies.

Their educated software engineers, however, number about as many, if not more than in the US because of India's size.
But that quote refers not just to software engineers, but the entire economy. China excels in manufacturing, and India has services.

And one last thing. China is not big in services of any kind. They do have a service sector, of course, but it isn't nearly as large as India's, due to the Communists repressive policies.

I'm not sure how you're defining services, or what you're specifically referring to in terms of repressive policies that stifle a services sector, but based on my experience over there, China has a rather significant service sector.

Services, you have to remember, are generally accepted to be anything from bank tellers, to salespeople, Starbuck's baristas, and so on, and China has an army of them. There is no policy of repressing the Chinese service sector, because there is nothing subversive about processing paycheques or making a grande mocha frappucino.

Basically, a distinction has to be drawn between services in general and export of services.

If you're making reference to India's call centres and processing information for foreigners, then yes, India wins out. But that alone doesn't constitute a service sector and China's policies, however draconian they are, are not to blame for China not having call centres. English is, after all, one of India's official languages and due to the imperial legacy, many speak it. On the other hand, 99% of Chinese people speak next to zero English.

Their educated software engineers, however, number about as many, if not more than in the US because of India's size.
But that quote refers not just to software engineers, but the entire economy. China excels in manufacturing, and India has services.

And one last thing. China is not big in services of any kind. They do have a service sector, of course, but it isn't nearly as large as India's, due to the Communists repressive policies.

Quantity and quality are not always the same.

China is working to change things in regard to the service sector. They have a program for manditory English going on(A co-worker just returned from there, his province I can't remember but he said he was stunned to see english classes going on). In about 5 years, India will see job loss as the average Chinese makes less then the average Indian.

Finally, India's service sector is not powerful. It's cheap. My job requires vendor calls every day. Our time on the telephones has increased by 20-30 minutes on the average and we rough estimate about 1 out every 30 people on the other end actually helpful.

Never mind the fact that Dell moved Corporate support back to the US after several complaints.....

Approximately 80 per cent of China and India remain poor farmers, many of them not even owning the land they till. A bilateral trade agreement between these two countries means very little.

The government of China itself forcasts that it will not be until 2080 that the country will be developed. I spend a lot of time in China and I can attest to the fact that, for all of the advances China has made up until now, the majority of the country is dirt poor.

This arguement has two flaws. One, the two nations have very big economies, and they are growing faster than any other major economies. China itself doubles its economy once every seven years. Two, both countries have large populations. India, for example, has 1 billion people. I concede that 800 million in stark poverty is big stuff. But the other 20%, or 200 million, are educated and in a skilled workforce. That is the population of Britain, France, Italy, Spain, and Portugal combined.

Why should I argue with you two? Both of you have more business experience than I do.

Every Indian I have spoken has mentioned it.....
Add one more to that list :D

How about this for an idea a strengthen of trade between the US and China the fact that politically we grow closer to China every day as the slow lumber towards a free market which is a good way to do it and as we slowly push Taiwan into accepting the same status as Hong Kong.

How about this for an idea a strengthen of trade between the US and China the fact that politically we grow closer to China every day as the slow lumber towards a free market which is a good way to do it and as we slowly push Taiwan into accepting the same status as Hong Kong.
It will be interesting to see if the Chinese Communist Party can pull of a switch-a-roo to capitalism without falling apart. I for one think they cannot. Despite the market reforms the CCP still controls the nation's banks and financial mechanisms which control the economy, giving the party enormous control over even the private enterprises, which does not exist in a capitalist state. If they lose their grip on the economic life of China I cannot imagine they will stay in power for long.

As for whether free markets will make it more friendly with the US that is questionable. Both sides had capitalist economies in WWI and WWII, this did not stop them from beating the crap out of one another. I think that even if China goes capitalist and does not totally collapse into chaos, the US and China will remain bitter rivals over access to oil and other resources.

This is merely political posturing.

India and China, as Developing nations have to stop with the petty little border disputes and show people they are mature. India want to give two fingers to Pakistan, to let them know they've moved on. And China want to give two fingers to the USA, Japan and Taiwan.

Problems arise when you look into the Indian situation. India has the subtle support of the UK and the USA, they will not sacrafice this by signing a meaningful agreement with China, a symbol yes, something deeper, hell no.
China want to show they aren't a petulent child hell bent on invading Taiwan and Japan, they also wish to settle border disputes with India because they realise that India is developing much faster and will win the race to be the next superpower.

The two countries have their own reasons for signing the Treaty, despite what they may say in public, remember most Treaty's have something below the rhetoric.

I think it's a good thing. I see some real potential for some very bad things to happen in Asia in the near future, given the populations of China and India. They're starting to develop more quickly, which is a good thing in its own way but given the tremendous amount of people involved, demand will go through the roof as those countries become more affluent. It's good to see that the people in charge over there recognize this and are taking steps to make sure it doesn't turn into something really, really bad.

It's all a part of the global economy. China and India have been major manufacturing strongholds for years and now it's looking like they might break out in a big way. I'm happy for them.