NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm getting a bit annoyed lately everytime i here about the damn elections, in a few months I'll be old enough to vote but by then it will be too late :headbang:

I think the voting age should be brought down to 16 with a little bit of politics taught in schools so that kids can learn about the different parties so when they're old enough they can make an intelligent, informed, thought out decision on who they vote for. At 16 (in Britain) you can have an alcoholic drink with your meal, you can smoke, have sex, get married and start a family, gamble all your money away, at 17 you can drive, a lot of people leave school at 16 and get jobs and therefore pay taxes so why don't they get a small say in where those taxes go?!

I said the same thing in 2000 when I was two months from voting age (not that it would have mattered :p )

It sucks, but there's really not much that can be done...it's not like a whole lot of 18-20 year olds are voting, at least in this country anyways, so why should 16-18 year olds?

Oh, BTW, U.S. Government was a required course at my High School :)

In exactly the same position funnily enough.

and Christ is the Tory’s win in my consistency.

I’m going on a postman esque style gun rampage.

Still don’t think the voting age should be lowered mind.

I think the voting age should be brought down to 16 with a little bit of politics taught in schools so that kids can learn about the different parties so when they're old enough they can make an intelligent, informed, thought out decision on who they vote for.


Thats exactly the problem if politics is taught in schools you'll be taught the teachers own bias and at 16 many people aren't questioning what they're told and using it to formulate their own opinions. True this can be said for many people over the age of 16 i still think it'd be a mistake.

if you want to address anything that is unfair to 16 year olds take up the minimum wage, or lack of.

I think the voting age should be brought down to 16 with a little bit of politics taught in schools so that kids can learn about the different parties so when they're old enough they can make an intelligent, informed, thought out decision on who they vote for.


Thats exactly the problem if politics is taught in schools you'll be taught the teachers own bias and at 16 many people aren't questioning what they're told and using it to formulate their own opinions. True this can be said for many people over the age of 16 i still think it'd be a mistake.

if you want to address anything that is unfair to 16 year olds take up the minimum wage, or lack of.
that's not necassarily true, politics is taught (to those who want to be) at AS/A Level when kids are 17/18 without bias so why not start that a year early, all they'd have to be taught is a bit about the different parties' aims

(I do agree about the minimum wage thing though, i used to get paid a crappy £3.40/hour at my old job)

When I've only got a choice of 2 evils anyway, it doesn't really matter... Only I could turn this country arround, but i'd never get into power... My methods are unethical... :mad:

When I've only got a choice of 2 evils anyway, it doesn't really matter... Only I could turn this country arround, but i'd never get into power... My methods are unethical... :mad:
I know gulags are so 1950'ies


i just don’t see why people cant see the inerrant pit falls of this. at 16 your an idiot. hell i know I’m smarter than about 99% of the population anyway (egomania perhaps) but the point was at 16, I was a lot stupider than I am now.

i had no responsibility
i had no real commitments
i had no really proper educated political views

As smart yes, as educated no, and my opinions were heavily bias and could be influenced by almost anything.


you cant teach politics urrrrg, don’t you see the huge problem in that, then you’ll just have the party in power changing the curriculum of it every 5 years to make them look good.

No to mention with the inclusion of 17 and 16 as voters, the youth will become a huge voting bloc, hugely vulnerable to simple voting winning policies, we will wot lower your taxes so you can get wot more money, wicked!

Well i'm 19 now anyways, and I reckon i'll end up voting for some lesser party. Mainly 'cos I hate both Labour and the Tories. They both suck, their leaders are morons, and the other parties'll never win anyway.

I know gulags are so 1950'ies


i just don’t see why people cant see the inerrant pit falls of this. at 16 your an idiot. hell i know I’m smarter than about 99% of the population anyway (egomania perhaps) but the point was at 16, I was a lot stupider than I am now.

i had no responsibility
i had no real commitments
i had no really proper educated political views

As smart yes, as educated no, and my opinions were heavily bias and could be influenced by almost anything.


you cant teach politics urrrrg, don’t you see the huge problem in that, then you’ll just have the party in power changing the curriculum of it every 5 years to make them look good.

No to mention with the inclusion of 17 and 16 as voters, the youth will become a huge voting bloc, hugely vulnerable to simple voting winning policies, we will wot lower your taxes so you can get wot more money, wicked!
so in half a year when i turn 18 I'll suddenly not be an idiot but for now i am?

lots of 16 year olds have responsibility
lots of 16 year olds have real commitments
lots of 16 year olds have proper educated political views and the ones that don't still won't when they turn 18

you can teach politics! you can teach what views each party has and what they want to change etc, it's better than learning it all from newspapers and tv

Well i'm 19 now anyways, and I reckon i'll end up voting for some lesser party. Mainly 'cos I hate both Labour and the Tories. They both suck, their leaders are morons, and the other parties'll never win anyway.
vote Lib Dems!

vote Lib Dems!

More empty promises.

I'm 16 and although I personally consider myself pretty well-informed and intelligent, I don't really think the voting age should be lowered. Let's face it: I don't think the majority of 16 and 17 year olds would be that bothered. I don't have any facts or figures to back that up, so I'm perfectly willing to accept it might be wrong, but...

All the other things you're allowed to do at 16, like get married and smoke, are personal. Voting's a national thing; it's different.

Politics aren't allowed to be taught in schools (unless it's objective), as it would be 'influencing impressionable minds'. Technically, you aren't supposed to share any personal political views with your class (although that doesn't stop my French teachers... Le Pen this, Le Pen that....) so that's pretty much out of the quesiton. I would say that though... I'm old enough to vote.
:p

It's an interesting question... I agree it's inherently absurd to consider that, at the age of 18, people suddenly acquire greater intelligence, maturity, political awareness, and sense of responsibility. There are many people above the age of 18 who simply shouldn't be trusted with the right to vote (I know people who take no interest in politics whatsoever but who vote all the same, without being aware of all the options, nor even knowing much about the party they're voting for; I've even known people vote at random!). And there are people below the age of 18 who have far more political intelligence than many older people will ever have.

The problem is, you have to fix the limit somewhere. I would be, hesitatingly, in favour of lowering it to 16, though obviously no lower. TInk, you raise good points, but someone could well argue that drinking, smoking, having sex, getting married and gambling are all things that affect only you, whereas when you vote you're taking partial responsability for the fate of the entire nation, so you do need more responsability than for all those other things (well, except for starting a family). Having said that, I would tend to agree with you all the same. If the voting age is lowered to 16, then, for the most part, it's those who have a sense of political awareness, interest and responsability who will be voting. Yes, you'll get irresponsible people voting too, but no more than within other age groups, and so it won't increase the problem. The benefit (i.e., giving a political voice to those who have enough interest in politics to be actually asking for it) would outweigh any potential disadvantages. Plus, it might well reduce overall political apathy.

The simple fact is that most 16 year olds just arent fully capable of making decisions that affect the nation as a whole.
Most 16 year olds are sheltered kids in suburbia, who are too busy worrying about sex, and themselves, to pay much attention to national politics.

Does this mean that 16 years olds are stupid?

Most of them.

But not all.

16, is still a kid.

Politics aren't allowed to be taught in schools (unless it's objective), as it would be 'influencing impressionable minds'. Technically, you aren't supposed to share any personal political views with your class (although that doesn't stop my French teachers... Le Pen this, Le Pen that....) so that's pretty much out of the quesiton. I would say that though... I'm old enough to vote.
:p
I have a friend doing an ALevel in politics, if it can be taught to 17/18 year olds objectively i don't see why it can't be taught to 16 year olds objectively. And if we're not taught about this stuff in school then we'll just learn about it from the media and our parents all of which are biased

I agree, it sucks, and of course it depends on the individual, but younger people are seen as being more immature, even when this is not nexessarily the case. It sucks, but that's it. That's the government for you! Why would you want to learn politics, anyway? Anything on the curriculum (I can never spell that) would be put forward by the government. So the year 10 politics lesson for today goes "Labour are great. Vote Labour." Or something. I'm rambling.

so in half a year when i turn 18 I'll suddenly not be an idiot but for now i am?

lots of 16 year olds have responsibility
lots of 16 year olds have real commitments
lots of 16 year olds have proper educated political views and the ones that don't still won't when they turn 18

you can teach politics! you can teach what views each party has and what they want to change etc, it's better than learning it all from newspapers and tv

It isn't that all 16- and 17-year olds aren't intelligent or responsible. But the focus is different. MOST (key word="most") teenagers are considering what college to go to, and consider that to be a sign of responsibility. However, by the time it would take to properly teach

-thorough- American political history,
political agenda -AND-
convince a teenager thet the decisions of one President can (and will) affect at least 20 years after his succession,

they'd already be 18! :p

I'm 20 years old, and in the military. I can't drink alcohol. Although I think that's a stupid policy, I understand that the majority my age are not yet responsible enough to know when to stop. It's hard biting a bullet because those before you made things the way they are now. Maybe when the majority of teenagers display -true- maturity, policies will change... :(

I'm 16 and although I personally consider myself pretty well-informed and intelligent, I don't really think the voting age should be lowered. Let's face it: I don't think the majority of 16 and 17 year olds would be that bothered. I don't have any facts or figures to back that up, so I'm perfectly willing to accept it might be wrong, but...

All the other things you're allowed to do at 16, like get married and smoke, are personal. Voting's a national thing; it's different.

That is a very peculiar thing to hear a teenager to say. And in a manner, almost conservatively liberal.... o.O

I agree that most 17- are not quite ready for the political arena, but you word it in a way that almost questions the validity of a Nation's role in your personal life... I'm intruiged, please, continue....

OK, to sum up my view:

I sucks for those who are responsible and would take the time to vote. However, I think that 18 is a sensible age, as I have only really just started to come into my political opinion. I wouldn't have known how to vote at 16, and now I feel more adult, I think I take the responsibility more seriously.

I agree that most 17- are not quite ready for the political arena

The fact that TInk is taking an interest in politics shows that at least some are. ;) (Go, TInk! :p )

As I said earlier, if you give them all the right to vote, then:

* you will have some who won't vote, because they're not taking an interest - just like people above 18

* you will have some who will vote irresponsibly without knowing whom and what they're voting for - just like people above 18, and

* you will have some who will take an interest and vote responsibly (like TInk).

Now, to me, those first two categories aren't of much concern. The second won't boost the percentage of irresponsible voters, since most 16-18 year-olds who aren't interested probably just won't vote, and in any case you have an alarming percentage of adults who vote irresponsibly anyway. So it won't change anything. As for the first category, they're simply not a problem. So I see no reason really not to give the third category the right they're asking for.

The fact that TInk is taking an interest in politics shows that at least some are. ;) (Go, TInk! :p )

As I said earlier, if you give them all the right to vote, then:

* you will have some who won't vote, because they're not taking an interest - just like people above 18

* you will have some who will vote irresponsibly without knowing whom and what they're voting for - just like people above 18, and

* you will have some who will take an interest and vote responsibly (like TInk).

Now, to me, those first two categories aren't of much concern. The second won't boost the percentage of irresponsible voters, since most 16-18 year-olds who aren't interested probably just won't vote, and in any case you have an alarming percentage of adults who vote irresponsibly anyway. So it won't change anything. As for the first category, they're simply not a problem. So I see no reason really not to give the third category the right they're asking for.

Based on my experiences... a lazy teenager is still easily convinced to vote for a particular side... not living on his/her own yet, not holding a steady, "living-making" job....

I agree, Tink is rather responsible, but I still think that the majority of irresponsible teenagers would still vote... which, nationwide- could really complicate the voting structure.

Based on my experiences... a lazy teenager is still easily convinced to vote for a particular side... not living on his/her own yet, not holding a steady, "living-making" job....

More so than anyone else? I'm not convinced of that...


I agree, Tink is rather responsible, but I still think that the majority of irresponsible teenagers would still vote... which, nationwide- could really complicate the voting structure.

You may be right there. It's difficult to know whether they would vote or not. Although, again, there is already an alarming number of adults who vote irresponsibly, so I don't really think the consequences would be as dramatic as you suggest.


I sucks for those who are responsible and would take the time to vote. However, I think that 18 is a sensible age, as I have only really just started to come into my political opinion. I wouldn't have known how to vote at 16, and now I feel more adult, I think I take the responsibility more seriously.

All right, that's a fairly good point, and I have to agree to some extent. Having said that, if 16 and 17 year olds were given the right to vote, don't you think a significant number would take an active interest in politics earlier than they do now? I admit that, at the age of 16, I hadn't yet clearly formed the political beliefs I now hold. But isn't it conceivable that we'd both have given the matter thought earlier if we'd known we'd be voting at 16?

I hadn't yet clearly formed the political beliefs I now hold. But isn't it conceivable that we'd both have given the matter thought earlier if we'd known we'd be voting at 16?

Which could be the basis of a conceeded agreement: require a test of general knowledge of the U.S. Goverment in order to vote? It has to be done to immigrate....

I don't think that teenagers -shouldn't- be able to vote, I just don't support that they necessarily -should- be able to, if that makes sense.

Which could be the basis of a conceeded agreement: require a test of general knowledge of the U.S. Goverment in order to vote? It has to be done to immigrate....

I don't think that teenagers -shouldn't- be able to vote, I just don't support that they necessarily -should- be able to, if that makes sense.
i agree that some kind of test would be a good idea (though I'm talking about in Britain here so not on the U.S. government)

i agree that some kind of test would be a good idea (though I'm talking about in Britain here so not on the U.S. government)

Nah, study the U.S. Government, no one else does... they just talk like they did >.>

Which could be the basis of a conceeded agreement: require a test of general knowledge of the U.S. Goverment in order to vote? It has to be done to immigrate....

I don't think that teenagers -shouldn't- be able to vote, I just don't support that they necessarily -should- be able to, if that makes sense.

Well, US government in your case; it would be UK in TInk's case, and would have been French in mine. ;)

It's an interesting idea. But who would prepare the test? How do you make sure it's not biased in favour of a certain ideological viewpoint?

so in half a year when i turn 18 I'll suddenly not be an idiot but for now i am?

lots of 16 year olds have responsibility
lots of 16 year olds have real commitments
lots of 16 year olds have proper educated political views and the ones that don't still won't when they turn 18

you can teach politics! you can teach what views each party has and what they want to change etc, it's better than learning it all from newspapers and tv
However...

lots of 16 year olds don't take responsibility
lots of 16 year olds don't take commitments
lots of 16 year olds don't care about politics

So even if it were 50/50, it wouldn't be such a great idea. It's like saying 'Let's let 13 year olds drink because they can't drive and besides - what harm can a 13 year old do?' Now this is coming from a fellow 16 year old so don't criticise me about that.

But in a way, I also agree with you because even if the age drops to 16, those who don't care about politics won't bother to vote anyways and those who are serious about it will get their chance.

It's an interesting idea. But who would prepare the test? How do you make sure it's not biased in favour of a certain ideological viewpoint?

Are any tests unbiased? Are there any people who are unbiased?

Anyway to give my 2 cents (or should it be pennies...) I'm 16 and don't feel ready to vote. My 18 year old friend is finding it all surreal. And wherever you draw the line, you are always gonna get some people who are a few months or days off being able to vote. Nothing you can do about that (well ethically at least)

I can cope with the voting age being at 18, but it's the one for alcohol that gets me, but I suppose that is another thread...

Are any tests unbiased? Are there any people who are unbiased?

Anyway to give my 2 cents (or should it be pennies...) I'm 16 and don't feel ready to vote. My 18 year old friend is finding it all surreal. And wherever you draw the line, you are always gonna get some people who are a few months or days off being able to vote. Nothing you can do about that (well ethically at least)

I can cope with the voting age being at 18, but it's the one for alcohol that gets me, but I suppose that is another thread...

Well, the test that potential immigrants have to take don't question ideals as much as they challenge the test-taker on his/her knowledge on how the government works. It is up to the individual to be lieral, conservative or a combination thereof. The test simply questions the understanding of the structure of the government, not its philosophies....

Based on my experiences...

Your first mistake :)

a lazy teenager is still easily convinced to vote for a particular side...

What makes you think a 'lazy teenager would vote?

not living on his/her own yet, not holding a steady, "living-making" job....

Funny, I'm in uni, I'm not holding a steady, "living-making" job.

Yet I can vote.

Also there are plenty of 18+ people still living at home, just as there are some 16-18 year oldsd living by themself and earning a steady "living-making" job who cannot vote.

I agree, Tink is rather responsible, but I still think that the majority of irresponsible teenagers would still vote... which, nationwide- could really complicate the voting structure.

How? They don't have a majority, they are outnumbered by the existing population who can vote by several fold.

lots of 16 year olds don't take responsibility
lots of 16 year olds don't take commitments
lots of 16 year olds don't care about politics

Lots of 18 year olds don't take responsibility
Lots of 18 year olds don't take commitments
Lots of 18 year olds don't care about politics.

In fact I could say the same thing about 25 year olds.

Proves nothing though.

I'm getting a bit annoyed lately everytime i here about the damn elections, in a few months I'll be old enough to vote but by then it will be too late :headbang:

I think the voting age should be brought down to 16 with a little bit of politics taught in schools so that kids can learn about the different parties so when they're old enough they can make an intelligent, informed, thought out decision on who they vote for. At 16 (in Britain) you can have an alcoholic drink with your meal, you can smoke, have sex, get married and start a family, gamble all your money away, at 17 you can drive, a lot of people leave school at 16 and get jobs and therefore pay taxes so why don't they get a small say in where those taxes go?!

I disagree competely. I think the minimum age should be increased to at least 30. The infinite hordes of retard uni/college students proves the validity of this idea beyone any and all doubt.

If kids could vote, I shudder to think of the pot-head luny that gets in on the combined might of 2 of the greatest smacktard generations in all of history.

Holy cow @ the 16yr old age limit on marriage and alcohol consumption in Britain, are you sure thats right?

Lots of 18 year olds don't take responsibility
Lots of 18 year olds don't take commitments
Lots of 18 year olds don't care about politics.

In fact I could say the same thing about 25 year olds.

Proves nothing though.
Correct me if I'm wrong but,

The greater percentage of 18 year olds are mature.

The lower percentage of 16 year olds are mature.

I disagree competely. I think the minimum age should be increased to at least 30. The infinite hordes of retard uni/college students proves the validity of this idea beyone any and all doubt.

If kids could vote, I shudder to think of the pot-head luny that gets in on the combined might of 2 of the greatest smacktard generations in all of history.


That may be the most amazing bit of age-discriminatory rhetoric I've ever heard. Judging from your post you are over the age of 30. I'm so glad that in your infinate wisdom you have decided that not only are we students of HIGHER education in hordes...but these hordes are infinate. Tell me, when you say retard are you refering to our hordes being retarded collectively or that we are attending universities of a retarded variety. Fascinating...our numbers just keep stretching out beyond reckoning. Sounds like a angry, uneducated middle aged man who undoubtedly votes quote liberally.

Let me tell you something Captain Bitter, not every 16 year old is equipped to vote, but I know 30 year olds who aren't either. Age means little once you reach a truly congnizant thinking age, however, that is different for every person so they decided that by 18 you should have gained a reasonable amount of experience or information to vote or to have the sense not to if you feel you are uninformed. I can tell you at 20 I am most definately equipped for voting. I weigh the merits of each candidate by my personal beliefs and values and by what kind of platform they are running on and more importantly their political track record. We all can do no better than that. But you should probably stop from making ridiculous blanket statements.

I disagree competely. I think the minimum age should be increased to at least 30. The infinite hordes of retard uni/college students proves the validity of this idea beyone any and all doubt.

I take it you're a tad biased towards the right of the political spectrum, no? ;) In any case, I'd be curious to hear your 'reasoning' for calling university students retards. Because they think for themselves, perhaps?


Holy cow @ the 16yr old age limit on marriage and alcohol consumption in Britain, are you sure thats right?

I think it is, yes. Age limits are completely arbitrary, and vary from country to country. Here in France, a girl can get married when she's 15, but a guy has to wait until he's 18. You can drive, and vote, when you're 18. On the other hand, if there's a minimum age for drinking, I'm not aware of it; I don't think there is. (In any case, I was buying alcoholic drinks long before I was 21, and it was perfectly legal. I'm fairly sure I bought a few beers before I hit 16, too.).

But then there are people who are apathetic ... perhaps more in the younger range.

However...

lots of 16 year olds don't take responsibility
lots of 16 year olds don't take commitments
lots of 16 year olds don't care about politics

So even if it were 50/50, it wouldn't be such a great idea. It's like saying 'Let's let 13 year olds drink because they can't drive and besides - what harm can a 13 year old do?' Now this is coming from a fellow 16 year old so don't criticise me about that.

But in a way, I also agree with you because even if the age drops to 16, those who don't care about politics won't bother to vote anyways and those who are serious about it will get their chance.
lots of 18+ year olds don't take responsibility
lots of 18+ year olds don't take commitments
lots of 18+ year olds don't care about politics

13 year olds aren't allowed to drink because they're bodies aren't ready to cope with it properly

Let me tell you something Captain Bitter, not every 16 year old is equipped to vote, but I know 30 year olds who aren't either. Age means little once you reach a truly congnizant thinking age, however, that is different for every person so they decided that by 18 you should have gained a reasonable amount of experience or information to vote or to have the sense not to if you feel you are uninformed. I can tell you at 20 I am most definately equipped for voting. I weigh the merits of each candidate by my personal beliefs and values and by what kind of platform they are running on and more importantly their political track record. We all can do no better than that. But you should probably stop from making ridiculous blanket statements.

*nods*

I agree completely. If by the age of 18 or 20 a person hasn't the necessary mental equipment, or plain interest, to vote intelligently, they will most definitely not have it by 30 or 35, either. I'm 22, almost 23, and I always give a lot of thought to what my vote is going to be. Which is more than I can say for many people much older than me.

lots of 18+ year olds don't take responsibility
lots of 18+ year olds don't take commitments
lots of 18+ year olds don't care about politics


Thank you for putting clearly what I've been trying to explain from the start. ;)

At least personaly I honestly would not have made an informed decision at 16 ... I understood but dident UNDERSTAND.

Basicaly I probably would have ended up voting the way my parents did just because that is who/what I was more familiar with

I am not saying 18 year oldsd are any better but at least (looking back) I can see a START of my logical thinking. again hindsight is 20 20 but coming from that age I would have been upset at my older self being told I am not really thinking :)

But thats just me
(Though I deffinatly understand your taxes point)

One of my biggest beefs is the difference between selective service and drinking age lol why 21 when at 18 you hold all responsibility to the state including being drafted

Now that leads to another question
If voting age is lowered do you think the draft age should be lowered as well to 16? With privilage comes responsability

I'm getting a bit annoyed lately everytime i here about the damn elections, in a few months I'll be old enough to vote but by then it will be too late :headbang:

I think the voting age should be brought down to 16 with a little bit of politics taught in schools so that kids can learn about the different parties so when they're old enough they can make an intelligent, informed, thought out decision on who they vote for. At 16 (in Britain) you can have an alcoholic drink with your meal, you can smoke, have sex, get married and start a family, gamble all your money away, at 17 you can drive, a lot of people leave school at 16 and get jobs and therefore pay taxes so why don't they get a small say in where those taxes go?!

I agree. In fact if no reduction in voting age to 16 is to happen then an increase minimum age for military service to 18...

I agree. In fact if no reduction in voting age to 16 is to happen then an increase minimum age for military service to 18...

What's the military service age (???) now.

What's the military service age (???) now.

Something about having a 30-year old Sergeant listen to a 23 year old Officer? ^^

Nothing is wrong with the age, persay, but rather that you are expected to serve (and die, if necessary) for your country, yet you cannot consume alcohol until many years later. (By many, of course, I mean 1-5.)

Personally (though this isn't really a comment on the thread topic) I think that Active Duty military should be granted immunity to the legal drinking age, legal smoking age, and be granted a 50% write-off on annual taxes. But, alas, I am but a dreamer in the political realm....