NationStates Jolt Archive

I come from a coountry where multiculturalism is welcomed and well practiced and i will admit it has its good points such as people becoming more respectful of each other and been able to experiance more cultures.
I however believe it has problems for example if people from country X come to country Y, they can mix with country Y's culture and so change it (meaning country Y's origional culture is lost) however country X's culture remains the same (due to how immigrants usually move in one direction e.g. from a poorer country to a richer one). I believe this leads to wealthier countries cultures being lost.
An answer to this problem? well i dont believe in stopping immigration (many first world countries will rely on it with birth rates dropping) However i think if people choose to migrate to another country they should be made to adapt to its culture (and not as in my country, its culture adapting to the immigrants). For example i believe that there should be comulsary english lessons, lessons on the countries past and culture, etc. This would prevent the wealthier countries culture being diluted by other cultures.

preserved culture is dead and belongs in a museum. Culture outside museums is constantly evolving. Thus, preservation of a culture is the death of it, dilution and evolution are what cultures do. yesno?

Yes cultures evolve and they should but multiculturalism has 2 sides, the country that recieve the immigrants has its culture changed by them, the country where the immigrants come from has its culture evole naturally by itself. This leads to western cultures being changed but not by westerners but by immigrants. I dont think that people who come to a country have the right to be able to change that countries culture, it should be allowed to change on its own.

Yes cultures evolve and they should but multiculturalism has 2 sides, the country that recieve the immigrants has its culture changed by them, the country where the immigrants come from has its culture evole naturally by itself. This leads to western cultures being changed but not by westerners but by immigrants. I dont think that people who come to a country have the right to be able to change that countries culture, it should be allowed to change on its own.

do you think evolution should be controlled?

if yes, how, in what way, to what end, by whom, why?

how about second generation? 3rd?

how is a culture being 'allowed to change on its own', if it is controlled?

Another similar point is how in my country it seems the majority have to adapt to the minority, where i believe it should be the minority adapting to the majority.

AN example of this is gypsies. They pay very little if any tax, set up camps in ilegal areas yet complain when they get moved on because they say that they have nowhere to go because legal sites are full. Who pays for these legal sites? the taxpayers. This is an example of a minority being supported by the majority, something i believe is wrong

preserved culture is dead and belongs in a museum. Culture outside museums is constantly evolving. Thus, preservation of a culture is the death of it, dilution and evolution are what cultures do. yesno?

I disagree. There are ways to preserve things such as language...etc without it going dry.

Another similar point is how in my country it seems the majority have to adapt to the minority, where i believe it should be the minority adapting to the majority.
Ooh. Carefull. Saying that the minority should adapt to the majority could be considerd a racist remark. Now if you say that the majority should change itself to fit more in with the minority all is good.
I myself am a fan of forced assimilation.

do you think evolution should be controlled?

if yes, how, in what way, to what end, by whom, why?

how about second generation? 3rd?

how is a culture being 'allowed to change on its own', if it is controlled?

Ok what i am suggesting is partial control, i think it should only be influenced by by the country it comes from or its close neighbours.

As regard to 2nd and 3rd generation i think that if immigrants are taught about their new countries culture then their children will grow up in that culture.

You may disagree with what i say but i believe that one of the things people should leave behind when they move to another country is their culture and they should be willing to take on their new countries culture

I disagree. There are ways to preserve things such as language...etc without it going dry.

languages, ok. Preserved culture is a different matter. Just look around your home town.

Ooh. Carefull. Saying that the minority should adapt to the majority could be considerd a racist remark. Now if you say that the majority should change itself to fit more in with the minority all is good.
I myself am a fan of forced assimilation.

I wouldnt say i am racist however it appears to me that if you belong to a minority you are allowed to be proud of that but if you belong to a majority and are proud of that you are racisit. An example of this is if in parts of england you show a georges cross it can be seen as racist

Yes, they should learn the language and adapt to the culture of said country to a certain extent. They should also maintain aspects of their own culture if they wish :).

languages, ok, different matter. preserved culture is a different matter. Just look around your home town.

Language and literature is the most important aspect of any culture. If you preserve those, then you have preserved the culture without *killing* it. I think it's the sole reason for why my country still has a culture and wasn't assimilated by the Danish ages ago.

The only cultural adaptation I think immigrants shoudl have to do is to learn (one of the) official language(s) of a country, that's not to say they shouldn't teach their kids their native language, but it would help them in society and allow for greater integration, rather than what some people do, form little communities of people only from their old country.

And really, from the look of american television these days, that is a culture in dire need of a change.

The only cultural adaptation I think immigrants shoudl have to do is to learn (one of the) official language(s) of a country, that's not to say they shouldn't teach their kids their native language, but it would help them in society and allow for greater integration, rather than what some people do, form little communities of people only from their old country.

Yes but then they can start to think that the country they move to should adapt to them. This would lead to that countries culture changing towards theirs. AN arguement for them is its a wat to preserve their culture however i think that their culture os being preserved perfectly well in their previous country.
Also their failure to adapt can lead to percieved racism e.g. certain forms must be written in many different languages. Why though?, this country speaks english, its tha national language so why should it print forms in other languages? if it doesnt however its a form of racism.
Another example is affirmative action where not necessarily the best man for the job gets the job.
I believe in equal oppertunities must they must be equal for all

Yes but then they can start to think that the country they move to should adapt to them. This would lead to that countries culture changing towards theirs. AN arguement for them is its a wat to preserve their culture however i think that their culture os being preserved perfectly well in their previous country. Multiculturalism is a two-way flow. The fact is, we live in a world with modern communication and fast-paced interactions of many kinds; no culture exists in a hemetic seal regardless of immigration. For instance, in not many wersterners move to China, but its culture is rapidly changing toward western models. Its a dynamic system, and it goes both ways; artificial restraints you put on culture are only thinly-veiled elitism.
Also their failure to adapt can lead to percieved racism e.g. certain forms must be written in many different languages. Why though?, this country speaks english, its tha national language so why should it print forms in other languages? if it doesnt however its a form of racism. Making communication easier for people who are new and not yet fluent in the official language is laudable. I believe new immigrants should be encouraged to integrate and learn the language but why should a multilingual tax form bother YOU in any way? You are still able to understand it perfectly.
Another example is affirmative action where not necessarily the best man for the job gets the job.
I believe in equal oppertunities must they must be equal for all
You can't pay lip-service to equality and pretend we live in a utopia where perfect equality is possible. the fact is, past descrimination takes generations to overcome demographically. Afirmative action, though it is a form of 'descrimination' is designed to redress societal disparities, so that in future generations, it son't be nessesary. I can give a detailed scenario in the next post, if desired.

Whatev' I fell like typing.

Lets say that in a population there's 75% crunchy people and 25% juicy people. So say there's this job, and 50% of the crunchy people are more or less qualified for it. Say only 20% of juicy people are qualified for the same job because of differences in the average level of education and economic wealth. Maybe on average, these juicies are even a bit less qualified for the job.

Though the relative proportion of crunchy people hired should be bigger than that for juicy people, since they are more, and better qualified, the company insists on hiring exactly 75% crunchies, and 25% juicies, so if you are a qualified juicy, you have a better chance of getting the job than if you're a qualified crunchie. That sounds like descrimination, right?

Well, not really. The juicies hired will learn skills and make money and have families. The next generation of juicies will have a higher percentage of people qualified for that same job in their population, since they were probably raised in a more prosperous environmant, due to their parents getting that job. Say now 30% are qualified, as opposed to the (still) 50% of crunchies.

Now the same company had to 'discriminate' proportionally less than it did before in order to fulfill the 75% crunchie, 25% juicy quota. A couple generations down the line, and 50% of juicies will be qualified for the job, same as their crunchy counterparts. The company will not have to exercise any control (if equitable hiring practices are in place) for their to be proportional representation of the general population in the workplace. Voila!!

The quota may still be in place, but its meaningless, since it should be naturally fulfilled.

People should be allwoed to assimilate as much or as little as they want. They're not harming anyone. If you feel threatened by minorites, well boo hoo. I'm a minority wherever I am, and I'm not changing who I am.

Minorities should adapt to the majority. We invented the country, we rule here.

Here in Australia, muslims are terrorising white girls, trying to force them to act like muslims.

Adapt to the majority culture or **** off.

I say we execute any minority member who tries to force majority members to adapt to the minority.

Minorities should adapt to the majority. We invented the country, we rule here.

Here in Australia, muslims are terrorising white girls, trying to force them to act like muslims.

Adapt to the majority culture or **** off.

I say we execute any minority member who tries to force majority members to adapt to the minority.
Yeah just like you all adapted to aborigional culture when they were the majority :rolleyes:

Yeah just like you all adapted to aborigional culture when they were the majority :rolleyes:

They were never the majority... Maybe for 3 minutes, until half a million convicts poured into the country.

They were never the majority... Maybe for 3 minutes, until half a million convicts poured into the country.
So are you saing if you get an inrush of imagrents that outnumber the current population you wish to conform to them being the majority? lets say muslems start imigrating like mad and they become the majority (converting some of the people already there no doubt) you would just quietly conform to the majority and give up your current culture?

im a big fan of immigration. it adds vitality to a culture.

but new immigrants should be cut no slack when it comes to obeying the law. if a country has an official language, its OK to require immigrants to learn it. if moslem men harrass women (moslem or not) for what they wear, they should be arrested. that it might be legal where they come from does not make it legal where they are now

if its not illegal, then the majority should let it be. there is nothing wrong with moslem communities, nothing wrong with speaking spanish, nothing wrong with wearing different clothes.

So are you saing if you get an inrush of imagrents that outnumber the current population you wish to conform to them being the majority? lets say muslems start imigrating like mad and they become the majority (converting some of the people already there no doubt) you would just quietly conform to the majority and give up your current culture?

Quite frankly I'd move back to Germany. Because Europe isn't stupid enough to get overrun.

But let's remember: The British colonists weren't immigrating to Australia, they were conquering it. I wouldn't conform to immigrants.

It seems like the ideas held by immagrints have changed greatly over the last 50 or so years. When my greatgrandmother came to the US, people wanted to be "American" you spoke english you worked hard to better yourself and your fellows. As of late it seems that the people coming into the US feel that the country owes them something and that they should get all the perks w/ none of the work.

Quite frankly I'd move back to Germany. Because Europe isn't stupid enough to get overrun.
LOL your kidding right? have you not seen the recent stats with birth rates and imigration into europe? (kind of surpized at how ironic your statement is because the big issue now is the fact that minority (currently) groups specialy muslim base are outpacing births of white europe families)

Whatev' I fell like typing.

Lets say that in a population there's 75% crunchy people and 25% juicy people. So say there's this job, and 50% of the crunchy people are more or less qualified for it. Say only 20% of juicy people are qualified for the same job because of differences in the average level of education and economic wealth. Maybe on average, these juicies are even a bit less qualified for the job.

Though the relative proportion of crunchy people hired should be bigger than that for juicy people, since they are more, and better qualified, the company insists on hiring exactly 75% crunchies, and 25% juicies, so if you are a qualified juicy, you have a better chance of getting the job than if you're a qualified crunchie. That sounds like descrimination, right?

Well, not really. The juicies hired will learn skills and make money and have families. The next generation of juicies will have a higher percentage of people qualified for that same job in their population, since they were probably raised in a more prosperous environmant, due to their parents getting that job. Say now 30% are qualified, as opposed to the (still) 50% of crunchies.

Now the same company had to 'discriminate' proportionally less than it did before in order to fulfill the 75% crunchie, 25% juicy quota. A couple generations down the line, and 50% of juicies will be qualified for the job, same as their crunchy counterparts. The company will not have to exercise any control (if equitable hiring practices are in place) for their to be proportional representation of the general population in the workplace. Voila!!

The quota may still be in place, but its meaningless, since it should be naturally fulfilled.

What mandate is there for it?

Secondly; what minority groups get to benefit? I mean, I hardly see the Chinese populations of Western countries making complaints about their lot, they just knuckle down, work hard, and get what they need.

Thirdly; Flawed idea. Employers can hire whomsoever they like; if someone wants to hire ONLY white people that's their choice. They have to deal with public opinion of course, but they have the right to do that. Why, though, should an employer hire a less qualified person, or indeed hire unqualified persons, in order to meet some mandate or another? What if the people they have to hire quite imply are not trained for the job? I don't have any problem with a black man being a doctor - I do have a problem with it if he's only a doctor because he's black, and there are white people/Chinese/whoever that are much more qualified.

preserved culture is dead and belongs in a museum. Culture outside museums is constantly evolving. Thus, preservation of a culture is the death of it, dilution and evolution are what cultures do. yesno?

Excellently said! The entire thing about a threat to culture revolves around the idea that culture ever has - or ever will - exist in a stasis. No outside influences/ideas, etc.Which is patently not true.

I don't have any objection to someone moving to England having to learn English, and learn about English history. That isn't preserving culture, that's education. I do mind when people come to England and expect to be pandered to, in their own language, etc. etc. (Very small minority, but still.)

LOL your kidding right? have you not seen the recent stats with birth rates and imigration into europe? (kind of surpized at how ironic your statement is because the big issue now is the fact that minority (currently) groups specialy muslim base are outpacing births of white europe families)

C'mon man. We invented World War. We're not gonna be conquered that easily. Give us a little credit.

It seems like the ideas held by immagrints have changed greatly over the last 50 or so years. When my greatgrandmother came to the US, people wanted to be "American" you spoke english you worked hard to better yourself and your fellows. As of late it seems that the people coming into the US feel that the country owes them something and that they should get all the perks w/ none of the work.

Not quite all of us. I plan to be hardworking and industrious, and I'm not going to claim welfare unless it's a choice between that and starvation.

It seems like the ideas held by immagrints have changed greatly over the last 50 or so years. When my greatgrandmother came to the US, people wanted to be "American" you spoke english you worked hard to better yourself and your fellows. As of late it seems that the people coming into the US feel that the country owes them something and that they should get all the perks w/ none of the work.

Word. During WWII, my family move from Ukraine to Germany, and after the war went sour for the Nazis, from Germany to Australia. Both times they bothered to learn the language and adapt to the culture.

Of course, we're the majority now...

I come from a coountry where multiculturalism is welcomed and well practiced and i will admit it has its good points such as people becoming more respectful of each other and been able to experiance more cultures.
I however believe it has problems for example if people from country X come to country Y, they can mix with country Y's culture and so change it (meaning country Y's origional culture is lost) however country X's culture remains the same (due to how immigrants usually move in one direction e.g. from a poorer country to a richer one). I believe this leads to wealthier countries cultures being lost.
An answer to this problem? well i dont believe in stopping immigration (many first world countries will rely on it with birth rates dropping) However i think if people choose to migrate to another country they should be made to adapt to its culture (and not as in my country, its culture adapting to the immigrants). For example i believe that there should be comulsary english lessons, lessons on the countries past and culture, etc. This would prevent the wealthier countries culture being diluted by other cultures.
First of all, you are incorrect in assuming that the culture of immigrants does not change in their new country. Especially as that group of immigrants have children born in the new country, their culture changes drastically. A first generation *insert nationality here* born in your country, is MUCH different than a person born back in their parent's home country. For example...Chicanos (people of Mexican decent living in the USA) do NOT have the same culture as Mexicans born in Mexico.

Culture changes. You can't stop that, and I don't even know why you would want to. We integrate cultural influences. English is a polyglot language famous for integrating foreign words. Other languages often create new words for things...English rarely does. Bok Choy? Croissant? Tabacco? None of these are English words to begin with...but they are now.

If you truly believe that the people coming to your country are not influenced by your national culture, you are mistaken. If you resist being influenced by their culture, you will fail. Just think of the incredible influence of East Indian culture on Britain during the 'Golden Age' of the Empire. Think of the influence of American culture on the Japanese...think of the influence of French culture in Canada...yet none of these national cultures have been assimilated by the influencing culture. Have more faith in your culture, and don't wish stagnation on it.

If you truly believe that the people coming to your country are not influenced by your national culture, you are mistaken. If you resist being influenced by their culture, you will fail. Just think of the incredible influence of East Indian culture on Britain during the 'Golden Age' of the Empire. Think of the influence of American culture on the Japanese...think of the influence of French culture in Canada...yet none of these national cultures have been assimilated by the influencing culture. Have more faith in your culture, and don't wish stagnation on it.

That's because you FORCED them to act like you... and then it backfired and now they have better stuff than you...

C'mon man. We invented World War. We're not gonna be conquered that easily. Give us a little credit.
It is not about being conqured ... they are just having WAY more children then the average.

Not quite all of us. I plan to be hardworking and industrious, and I'm not going to claim welfare unless it's a choice between that and starvation.
I did not mean to say that all new immigrants are looking for a free ride. I wark with several that are very hardworking, but even they have complained about friends and family that will not make any effort to adapt to this country. Heck my cousin married and illegal from Mexico they've got 2 great kids but she refuses to adapt to our culture. Its fine if you live in East LA, but if you don't speek english in New England, finding good work is very hard.

That's because you FORCED them to act like you... and then it backfired and now they have better stuff than you...
First of all, I will overlook the insult you have dealt me, by assuming I am from the USA. :p And I will give you a little more information about myself. I'm Native Canadian...Cree to be exact. I'm also half Irish, but I was raised Native. The Europeans came, settled, pushed us onto reservations and actively tried to destroy our culture, but my culture is still strong. I am a Canadian, AND I am Native, AND I am married to a South American, speak Spanish, English, Cree (and some French). I am very comfortable with MANY cultures, even aside from these ones. I feel no cultural confusion, I feel no cultural loss, and increasing immigration will not change that. I say, open the borders!

It is not about being conqured ... they are just having WAY more children then the average.

And if they start to outnumber us, we'll stick them in camps and make them work for us, just like we did to another certain minority 60 or so years ago...

I did not mean to say that all new immigrants are looking for a free ride. I wark with several that are very hardworking, but even they have complained about friends and family that will not make any effort to adapt to this country. Heck my cousin married and illegal from Mexico they've got 2 great kids but she refuses to adapt to our culture. Its fine if you live in East LA, but if you don't speek english in New England, finding good work is very hard.
what does it mean that she refuses to adapt to our culture?

So far, I haven't really seen what the 'problem' is with multiculturalism....?

So far, I haven't really seen what the 'problem' is with multiculturalism....?
Usually, the people who have a problem with it don't want to have to change themselves.

They don't want to learn a new language. Don't want to smell a different kind of food cooking upstairs. Don't want to have to look at different clothes.

Of course, in the end, they will win, but not for the reasons that everyone suspects (no, they won't bring back slavery, etc.,).

It's called multinational corporations. The corporations that run our lives and tell us what we like. They are busily homogenizing the world.

Of course, that might mean that in the end, we'll all be eating rice and speaking Chinese...

So far, I haven't really seen what the 'problem' is with multiculturalism....?

It forces the original settler majority to put up with, and in extreme cases, adapt to minority culture.

I come from a coountry where multiculturalism is welcomed and well practiced and i will admit it has its good points such as people becoming more respectful of each other and been able to experiance more cultures.
I however believe it has problems for example if people from country X come to country Y, they can mix with country Y's culture and so change it (meaning country Y's origional culture is lost) however country X's culture remains the same (due to how immigrants usually move in one direction e.g. from a poorer country to a richer one). I believe this leads to wealthier countries cultures being lost.
An answer to this problem? well i dont believe in stopping immigration (many first world countries will rely on it with birth rates dropping) However i think if people choose to migrate to another country they should be made to adapt to its culture (and not as in my country, its culture adapting to the immigrants). For example i believe that there should be comulsary english lessons, lessons on the countries past and culture, etc. This would prevent the wealthier countries culture being diluted by other cultures.
Change is inevitable. The best we can do is learn and adapt to whatever changes are in process.

It's called multinational corporations. The corporations that run our lives and tell us what we like. They are busily homogenizing the world.

Of course, that might mean that in the end, we'll all be eating rice and speaking Chinese...
That's the part that cracks me up the most...people keep talking about US or UK culture being overrun...but you want to talk sheer numbers, and a long history of assimilating cultures that have tried to 'conquer' them, the Chinese are surely more of a 'threat', or more likely to create a global culture than anyone else. Luckily, they are still the sleeping giant, even though things are picking up there... :D

It forces the original settler majority to put up with, and in extreme cases, adapt to minority culture.
No. It forces the 'swiftly becoming a minority' conquering culture to integrate aspects of the new cultures. If you want a single, homogenous culture, you are wishing for an impossibility, because nowhere in this world is there a culture untouched by others.

If the only criteria for being the 'dominant' culture is having a majority population, then I will happily await the moment when the US officially adopts a hispanic culture. It shouldn't be too many years down the road now...

i believe that one of the things people should leave behind when they move to another country is their culture and they should be willing to take on their new countries culture

??

On what grounds? They should conform to the host country's legislation, yes. I would also agree that they should learn the language. But abandon their own culture? Absolutely not. That's almost akin to abandoning your identity. I believe a nation's culture is enriched, not threatened, by contact with outside cultures. There is no risk of our cultures being 'lost', and, on the contrary, we have much to gain by being enriched by aspects of other cultures.

??

On what grounds? They should conform to the host country's legislation, yes. I would also agree that they should learn the language. But abandon their own culture? Absolutely not. That's almost akin to abandoning your identity. I believe a nation's culture is enriched, not threatened, by contact with outside cultures. There is no risk of our cultures being 'lost', and, on the contrary, we have much to gain by being enriched by aspects of other cultures.

I grew up where I live now, but was absent for about 20 years. In the meantime, thousands of Central Americans moved in. You can't buy groceries without speaking Spanish.

So I learned to speak Spanish. Is that so hard? Who should change, me or the thousands of people who moved into the neighborhood?

Sure, they speak English, too. But it's their neighborhood now - and if I want to share it with them, I have to be willing to speak their language.

I don't call that "multiculturalism". It's common sense. I use the word "multiculturalism" to describe that nonsense that they preach in schools that have never seen a non-white, non-English speaking person in their lives.

I have a question for those people who think you should 'adandon' your culture when you move to another country. How do you do that exactly? Change religions? Learn the new language? Eat the national food? Learn only the national history, and not the history of your birth country? Would you do this if you moved to England, the US, Australia, Canada, China, India, Peru etc etc? I have yet to see an 'assimilated' person from the US, Britain, Germany etc in a different country. They all still hold onto aspects of their culture that are important to them. In Chile, the Germans have whole colonies in the south where German is spoken, and taught in the schools. They've had a tremendous impact on the culture and history of Chile. In Argentina, the Italians have had a big influence. In Haiti, it was the French. What was created from all this cultural mixing was a completely new, unique culture...not a loss of one in favour of the other.

I grew up where I live now, but was absent for about 20 years. In the meantime, thousands of Central Americans moved in. You can't buy groceries without speaking Spanish.

So I learned to speak Spanish. Is that so hard? Who should change, me or the thousands of people who moved into the neighborhood?

Sure, they speak English, too. But it's their neighborhood now - and if I want to share it with them, I have to be willing to speak their language.

I don't call that "multiculturalism". It's common sense. I use the word "multiculturalism" to describe that nonsense that they preach in schools that have never seen a non-white, non-English speaking person in their lives.

I remember someone once said that. You should learn German. You should act German. It's OUR Europe now.

Oh, that's right, it was Hitler.


Pfhhh, it's their neighbourhood now. In the United States of ****ing English America!

I remember someone once said that. You should learn German. You should act German. It's OUR Europe now.

Oh, that's right, it was Hitler.


Pfhhh, it's their neighbourhood now. In the United States of ****ing English America!

Is there something wrong with my learning Spanish?

Is there something wrong with my learning Spanish?

Yes. You shouldn't have to. I'm assuming you're in the US. An English speaking country.

They can speak Spanish at home. But in public they should speak English.

Yes. You shouldn't have to. I'm assuming you're in the US. An English speaking country.

They can speak Spanish at home. But in public they should speak English.
Get it straight. English is the official language, not the 'only language you can speak in public'. Cripes. It means you are guaranteed government services in English. Not that you are guaranteed to never hear other languages, period.

Xenophobe.

Personally, if people come to a country to live they should at least learn the language. If it is one thing every country needs, it is the ability to understand everyone else in the country. To me anyway, history is a moot point, and it isn't used in everyday life.
EX: Alot of the time people come to the U.S. and only have a rudimentary knowledge of english. These people are smart too and end up going into teaching things like advanced chemistry but students can't understand a damn word they say. I mean they are smart but are un-able to communicate things efficiently. That makes it unfair to students. If there were mandatory english classes for immigrants this problem would be gone.

Yes. You shouldn't have to. I'm assuming you're in the US. An English speaking country.

They can speak Spanish at home. But in public they should speak English.

Yes, I'm in the US. Their kids speak English in school. If they go shopping outside their neighborhood, they speak English. Depending on their co-workers, they may speak English.

But when I'm in their store, I speak Spanish. Since the signage is in Spanish, and the clerks speak Spanish, I thought it would be useful. And polite.

I learned German when I visited Germany. I already spoke French before I went to France. Spoke Mandarin when I went to China. It's a small planet. A lot of little neighborhoods - and sometimes, you have to learn another language. Doesn't hurt, and comes in handy - especially when "those people" are talking about you in front of your face.

I know I've said this before, but I honestly believe that a lot of this talk about what language everyone should speak is either fear or laziness....fear that you can't learn a different language (despite all the benefits), or being too lazy to bother. Just remember...humans have an incredible ability to learn languages, and the majority of us on this planet speak more than one language, not because we've been forced to, but because we want to communicate more effectively with a wider range of people.

I know I've said this before, but I honestly believe that a lot of this talk about what language everyone should speak is either fear or laziness....fear that you can't learn a different language (despite all the benefits), or being too lazy to bother. Just remember...humans have an incredible ability to learn languages, and the majority of us on this planet speak more than one language, not because we've been forced to, but because we want to communicate more effectively with a wider range of people.
I learned really quickly when I was single and overseas that if you speak the language, you get laid. I would think that no one would let something like a foreign language stand in the way of a really good fuck, but I guess those people are out there.

I learned really quickly when I was single and overseas that if you speak the language, you get laid. I would think that no one would let something like a foreign language stand in the way of a really good fuck, but I guess those people are out there.
:) Truly, pillow talk is the best tutor!

:) Truly, pillow talk is the best tutor!

It certainly beats entertaining yourself with your right hand.

Really, what is the problem that people have with other people speaking a different language?

It certainly beats entertaining yourself with your right hand.

Really, what is the problem that people have with other people speaking a different language?
I dont think it is a problem with them speeking it ... rather some seem to expect that we learn their language to help them rather then them learning ours to help themselfs

(not saying I agree just that I think is a lot of what people have a problem with)

It certainly beats entertaining yourself with your right hand.

Really, what is the problem that people have with other people speaking a different language?

None, as long as immigrants, regardless of how many are in a neighbourhood, learn to speak the official language fluently.

I dont think it is a problem with them speeking it ... rather some seem to expect that we learn their language to help them rather then them learning ours to help themselfs

(not saying I agree just that I think is a lot of what people have a problem with)

I'm more than willing to meet people halfway. Heck, how would someone teach English to Spanish speakers if the teacher knew NO Spanish?

Kind of hard to get the class off the ground.

I personally don't have a problem with people having little neighborhoods where they speak another language. It makes life interesting.

None, as long as immigrants, regardless of how many are in a neighbourhood, learn to speak the official language fluently.

So far as the US goes though, there technically isn't an official language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

None, as long as immigrants, regardless of how many are in a neighbourhood, learn to speak the official language fluently.
I don't particularly have a problem with that, though I don't think they have to ARRIVE here with fluency. In Canada, new immigrants are funded up to a certain point to take ESL courses. However, sometimes taking these courses (which are at a minimum, 5 hours a day), interferes with the very real need to work and support a family. Quite often, it is the father (or mother) working, or caring for family at home that miss out on this opportunity, while the children (who pick up language easily anyway) learn the new language.

So far as the US goes though, there technically isn't an official language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

Very well, the OBVIOUS language.

Happy?

I'm more than willing to meet people halfway. Heck, how would someone teach English to Spanish speakers if the teacher knew NO Spanish?

Kind of hard to get the class off the ground.

I personally don't have a problem with people having little neighborhoods where they speak another language. It makes life interesting.
But having a specialized group that wanted to speek both is not the same as requiring the general everyone to speek all other langues of thoes that imigrate here to comunicate on a daily basis not to mention how lost the people who dont speek english have to be if they get in a situation for things like taxes ... or financial situations where almost everything is done in english

I don't particularly have a problem with that, though I don't think they have to ARRIVE here with fluency. In Canada, new immigrants are funded up to a certain point to take ESL courses. However, sometimes taking these courses (which are at a minimum, 5 hours a day), interferes with the very real need to work and support a family. Quite often, it is the father (or mother) working, or caring for family at home that miss out on this opportunity, while the children (who pick up language easily anyway) learn the new language.

Agreed. Although I think, unless it's wartime, the immigrants should probably pick up a little before they come...

But having a specialized group that wanted to speek both is not the same as requiring the general everyone to speek all other langues of thoes that imigrate here to comunicate on a daily basis not to mention how lost the people who dont speek english have to be if they get in a situation for things like taxes ... or financial situations where almost everything is done in english
First of all, let's stop the hysteria. In no country has there ever been a case of the general population (born in the country) being forced to speak the languages of all the immigrants to that country. Never. Nor would it be viable, desirable, or possible to require that. So this argument is a red herring, and infinately pointless.

Second, requiring people who immigrate to a country to learn the dominant language makes sense, but we have to account for the fact that not everyone will be able to do so (as I mentioned, because of the need to work right away, or for whatever other reasons). Governments are aware of this, and generally make provisions to provide information in that person's native language. They do this, even for people who HAVE learned the dominant language, because filling out government forms, including taxes, is damn confusing enough for those with English as our mother tongue...coming at it through a second language is just painful. Which is why you can often get GUIDES for filling out these forms in different languages.

Third, the simple fact is, not speaking the dominant language is a disadvantage that in no way disadvantages the dominant language group. Meaning, all those people not speaking English are going to have a tough time at it, because as has been mentioned, signs, forms, official government correspondance will all be in the dominant language. Immigrants not speaking English in no way interfere with your (as an English speaker) ability to communicate with your government, drive your car, or in any other way affect your ability to speak your language and have it officially recognised in the public sector.

So what is the problem again?

To all those who said that all cultures change: I'm German, and the last time I went (1998) the culture was the same as it had been for the last 1500 years.

To all those who said that all cultures change: I'm German, and the last time I went (1998) the culture was the same as it had been for the last 1500 years.

I'm not sure. I was at the Skylight in Aalen, and Germans couldn't dance to save their own lives. Theoretically, they were big on the waltz back in the 19th century, so they must have changed something.

To all those who said that all cultures change: I'm German, and the last time I went (1998) the culture was the same as it had been for the last 1500 years.
Really? Wow! No opera then, eh? Or rock music, or salt in their meals, exact same language, tribal governments...

People really don't realize how much cultures change in just the course of a lifetime, and for a variety of reasons. Immigrants are one of those reasons, but not even that important.

Technology, climate, fashions, global communications, etc, etc. Immigration is one of the least impactful on a country's culture, at least in the way it takes place in wester countries currently.

And, c'mon! There's no such thing as "country Y's original culture." Who knows what that was?

To all those who said that all cultures change: I'm German, and the last time I went (1998) the culture was the same as it had been for the last 1500 years.
That is so ridiculous as to be laughable. Cripes, what is your definition of culture anyway? Just language? Because even the German language has changed significantly in the last 500 years. And are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell us that Germany has been in a time warp for the last 500 years? That East and West Berlin had NO CULTURAL IMPACT? I hate to do this but here come the rolling eyes...:rolleyes:

I'm not sure. I was at the Skylight in Aalen, and Germans couldn't dance to save their own lives. Theoretically, they were big on the waltz back in the 19th century, so they must have changed something.

The lack of individual skill doesn't mean the whole culture has changed.

Really? Wow! No opera then, eh? Or rock music, or salt in their meals, exact same language, tribal governments...

People really don't realize how much cultures change in just the course of a lifetime, and for a variety of reasons. Immigrants are one of those reasons, but not even that important.

Technology, climate, fashions, global communications, etc, etc. Immigration is one of the least impactful on a country's culture, at least in the way it takes place in wester countries currently.

And, c'mon! There's no such thing as "country Y's original culture." Who knows what that was?

Technological advance =/= culture change. It's other cultures that do that.

Oh, and yeah, my people still speak the same language they spoke 1000s years ago. Alemmanisch.

The only change in culture is the change from proud warriors to international pussies, and that's entirely America's fault.

The lack of individual skill doesn't mean the whole culture has changed.

That was about 1000 people who couldn't dance. All in one place.

Oh, and yeah, my people still speak the same language they spoke 1000s years ago. Alemmanisch.

Sure they do. I'm not even German, and it hurts my ears to hear anyone in Schwabenland to speak. It doesn't even sound like German. Heck, I'd rather hear an Austrian speaking German than hear that again.

That was about 1000 people who couldn't dance. All in one place.



Sure they do. I'm not even German, and it hurts my ears to hear anyone in Schwabenland to speak. It doesn't even sound like German. Heck, I'd rather hear an Austrian speaking German than hear that again.

Alemannia =/= Schwabia.

Nice try, though.

And by dance, do you mean modern "dance"?

If we can't do that, it means our culture HASN'T changed.

The lack of individual skill doesn't mean the whole culture has changed.



Technological advance =/= culture change. It's other cultures that do that.

Oh, and yeah, my people still speak the same language they spoke 1000s years ago. Alemmanisch.
Please provide us with your definition of culture then. Because frankly, language alone does not a culture make.

Technological advance =/= culture change. It's other cultures that do that.

So, the pill didn't have any effect in culture? Or TV? I suppose that the printing press also didn't alter culture. Technological advance is not the same as culture change, but it impacts on it, and sometimes very greatly.


Oh, and yeah, my people still speak the same language they spoke 1000s years ago. Alemmanisch.
They speak a language that's called the same and follows pretty much the same grammatial rules. Just like the Spanish still speak Spanish and the French French. But during that time it has changed a lot, so much so that you would have difficulty understanding more than a few words at a time. Same with Spanish and same with French.

Yes. You shouldn't have to. I'm assuming you're in the US. An English speaking country.

They can speak Spanish at home. But in public they should speak English.
the US has no official language

and maybe you dont know but there are people who come from families who have lived in the US since before it WAS the US who grew up speaking spanish, french, navajo, apache or any of a few dozen other native languages.

Please provide us with your definition of culture then. Because frankly, language alone does not a culture make.

What we do, what we eat, how we act, how we speak, etc.

We still get drunk and hop around in crazy costumes here every October, and no number of Islamofascists has yet changed that.

The only change in culture is the change from proud warriors to international pussies, and that's entirely America's fault.
Ah...do you hie back to the days of Hitler's great Germany? Wow...there's a cultural change that sure had an impact on Germany...oh but let me guess, political movements and war =/= culture?

*resists the eye roll...*

Alemannia =/= Schwabia.

Nice try, though.

And by dance, do you mean modern "dance"?

If we can't do that, it means our culture HASN'T changed.

They seem to have forgotten how to waltz as well. I've been to several formal dances, and compared to the formal dances I've been to in America, I came to the conclusion that Germans are congenitally unable to dance - I can't understand how these same people came up with the waltz.

So, the pill didn't have any effect in culture? Or TV? I suppose that the printing press also didn't alter culture. Technological advance is not the same as culture change, but it impacts on it, and sometimes very greatly.


They speak a language that's called the same and follows pretty much the same grammatial rules. Just like the Spanish still speak Spanish and the French French. But during that time it has changed a lot, so much so that you would have difficulty understanding more than a few words at a time. Same with Spanish and same with French.

Actually, it hasn't changed much. I've read some old crap, and it's pretty much the same. It's like Latin, don't change.

Ah...do you hie back to the days of Hitler's great Germany? Wow...there's a cultural change that sure had an impact on Germany...oh but let me guess, political movements and war =/= culture?

*resists the eye roll...*

Actually, Hitler repaired a cultural change brought on by America, he brought back traditional values...

What we do, what we eat, how we act, how we speak, etc.

We still get drunk and hop around in crazy costumes here every October, and no number of Islamofascists has yet changed that.
Since you must have missed out on this concept, here is a definition of culture applying to this conversation for you:

Main Entry: culture

5 a : the integrated pattern of human knowledge, belief, and behavior that depends upon man's capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations b : the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group

So you see, culture involves much more than stereotypical 'foods, music and clothing'.

Actually, Hitler repaired a cultural change brought on by America, he brought back traditional values...

Like burning Jews in ovens...

I come from a coountry where multiculturalism is welcomed and well practiced and i will admit it has its good points such as people becoming more respectful of each other and been able to experiance more cultures.
I however believe it has problems for example if people from country X come to country Y, they can mix with country Y's culture and so change it (meaning country Y's origional culture is lost) however country X's culture remains the same (due to how immigrants usually move in one direction e.g. from a poorer country to a richer one). I believe this leads to wealthier countries cultures being lost.
An answer to this problem? well i dont believe in stopping immigration (many first world countries will rely on it with birth rates dropping) However i think if people choose to migrate to another country they should be made to adapt to its culture (and not as in my country, its culture adapting to the immigrants). For example i believe that there should be comulsary english lessons, lessons on the countries past and culture, etc. This would prevent the wealthier countries culture being diluted by other cultures.

Force them to adapt, and in US we must force all the spanish only speakers to english only speakers or maybe english and spanish speakers. Like that one town where you had to understand spanish to get a job, It was originally only english speaking until all the hispanics came, mostly illegal ones.

Did we loose a war? NO so why should we adapt, i say make them adapt after all US's native language is english then German since that was the only other one considered.

Actually, it hasn't changed much. I've read some old crap, and it's pretty much the same. It's like Latin, don't change.
Uh-huh. And Shakespearian English is the same as modern-day American English...and the original Spanish of Don Quixote de la Mancha is as easy to read as modern Spanish.

*resist...got to resist....the eye roll....*

Like burning Jews in ovens...

Thats not traditional. Every one were antisemetic back then. Starting with the Russians.

Force them to adapt, and in US we must force all the spanish only speakers to english only speakers or maybe english and spanish speakers. Like that one town where you had to understand spanish to get a job, It was originally only english speaking until all the hispanics came, mostly illegal ones.

Did we loose a war? NO so why should we adapt, i say make them adapt after all US's native language is english then German since that was the only other one considered.

I like you ALOT.

In a friendly way. Totally heterosexual friend way.

Yeah.

Actually, Hitler repaired a cultural change brought on by America, he brought back traditional values...
And we have a winner folks! I knew I'd spotted a Nazi-lover....

And we have a winner folks! I knew I'd spotted a Nazi-lover....

What does stating that Hitler brought back tradition values have to do with supporting Nazism?

I'm a monarchist, if you must know.

I like you ALOT.

In a friendly way. Totally heterosexual friend way.

Yeah.
ROFL! The fact that you have to define yourself to avoid any homosexual connotations (no one would read into that anyway) speaks volumes about you....

I CALL TROLL.

Uh-huh. And Shakespearian English is the same as modern-day American English...and the original Spanish of Don Quixote de la Mancha is as easy to read as modern Spanish.

*resist...got to resist....the eye roll....*

How can you assume that a language you've never heard of must have done what all other languages did?

ROFL! The fact that you have to define yourself to avoid any homosexual connotations (no one would read into that anyway) speaks volumes about you....

I CALL TROLL.

I was joking, moron. Ever watched the Simpsons?

Although it's true...

Did we loose a war? NO so why should we adapt, i say make them adapt after all US's native language is english then German since that was the only other one considered.
In the SouthWest the US native languages are the native languages and then Spanish. Then there were a lot of immigrants who spoke English only and they didn't want to adapt. Now there's another wave of immigrants who speak English only and they don't want to adapt either.

Same old, same old.

What we do, what we eat, how we act, how we speak, etc.

We still get drunk and hop around in crazy costumes here every October, and no number of Islamofascists has yet changed that.
But you also go to the movies, marry much later in life, have less kids, listen to a different music, have favourite TV shows, young people talk different that their parents, and about different things too, etc. etc. etc.

So culture has changed and is still changing.

What you're talking about is national identity, and that's something different.

In the SouthWest the US native languages are the native languages and then Spanish. Then there were a lot of immigrants who spoke English only and they didn't want to adapt. Now there's another wave of immigrants who speak English only and they don't want to adapt either.

Same old, same old.

It was originally an english settlement. Through several treaties and annexations we got the now US. Our native language is English, the differernt tribes of Native Americans communicated through sign language which i dont consider language.

How can you assume that a language you've never heard of must have done what all other languages did?
I've never heard of German?

Guess what, I'm in the Languages Faculty at the school I teach at right now. The German professor is in the next cubicle. Let me confer on this subject.

Ok, I'm back.

He says you're full of crap. Just like 19th century English is still understandable to those of us reading it now, you don't see people walking around SPEAKING like that (unless they're role-playing). That's because the language has changed. Not only that, the German prof points out that recently, even the spelling of certain letters has changed. LANGUAGES CHANGE. Saying they don't is silly, pointless, and incorrect.

I was joking, moron. Ever watched the Simpsons?

Although it's true...
Flame warning. Next one gets a mod report.

I've never heard of German?

Guess what, I'm in the Languages Faculty at the school I teach at right now. The German professor is in the next cubicle. Let me confer on this subject.

Ok, I'm back.

He says you're full of crap. Just like 19th century English is still understandable to those of us reading it now, you don't see people walking around SPEAKING like that (unless they're role-playing). That's because the language has changed. Not only that, the German prof points out that recently, even the spelling of certain letters has changed. LANGUAGES CHANGE. Saying they don't is silly, pointless, and incorrect.

Alemmanisch. Like, from Alemmania?

But you also go to the movies, marry much later in life, have less kids, listen to a different music, have favourite TV shows, young people talk different that their parents, and about different things too, etc. etc. etc.

So culture has changed and is still changing.

What you're talking about is national identity, and that's something different.

National identity is directly linked to culture. If Germany suddenly became a Muslim theocracy, would it have the same national identity?

I've never heard of German?

Guess what, I'm in the Languages Faculty at the school I teach at right now. The German professor is in the next cubicle. Let me confer on this subject.

Ok, I'm back.

He says you're full of crap. Just like 19th century English is still understandable to those of us reading it now, you don't see people walking around SPEAKING like that (unless they're role-playing). That's because the language has changed. Not only that, the German prof points out that recently, even the spelling of certain letters has changed. LANGUAGES CHANGE. Saying they don't is silly, pointless, and incorrect.

Italian didnt change too much. I am pretty sure latin didnt change.

NOw you are stereotyping about speaking 19th century english only in role playing, I use it quite often since it is a great form. Read this haiku

Twas a turnip that
on a sunday hath smelt a
cast of an iron rod.

Although I am clearly not too good with haiku and it shant make sense to the lot of you

Flame warning. Next one gets a mod report.

I'm supposed to be intimidated? I've been banned from countless sites, countless times.

It was originally an english settlement. Through several treaties and annexations we got the now US. Our native language is English, the differernt tribes of Native Americans communicated through sign language which i dont consider language.
Wrong. There were English settlements in the US NorthEast, and also Dutch and some French. The natives communicated using real languages, like Cree, Chippewa, Ojibwa; Sioux, Navajo, Lakota, further West. Sign language came much later when white people started to move west and had to communicate with all the tribes somehow.

In the US SouthWest the first European settlement in Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, etc. were Spanish, which became Mexican after independence from Spain. Also Florida was a Spanish settlement until the land was sold to the US. Lousiana was French, then Spanish, then French again, before it was sold to the US.

Immigrants to the US have come from all over: Germany, Ireland, Italy, Sweden, China, Ukraine, etc. and for many different causes.

National identity is directly linked to culture. If Germany suddenly became a Muslim theocracy, would it have the same national identity?
But national identity is not the be all, end of a culture. It is part of it. And what language is the official language of Germany, by the way?

Flame warning. Next one gets a mod report.

Wow you can call a mod for flaming, I wish I had known that.

National identity is directly linked to culture. If Germany suddenly became a Muslim theocracy, would it have the same national identity?
If it became *suddenly* of course not. If it did in a couple of centuries, it would.

Sinuhue, the "ss" is hardly a language change.

And go tell your Prussian prof that I said thanks for ruining Germany for the rest of us.

Wrong. There were English settlements in the US NorthEast, and also Dutch and some French. The natives communicated using real languages, like Cree, Chippewa, Ojibwa; Sioux, Navajo, Lakota, further West. Sign language came much later when white people started to move west and had to communicate with all the tribes somehow.

In the US SouthWest the first European settlement in Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, etc. were Spanish, which became Mexican after independence from Spain. Also Florida was a Spanish settlement until the land was sold to the US. Lousiana was French, then Spanish, then French again, before it was sold to the US.

Immigrants to the US have come from all over: Germany, Ireland, Italy, Sweden, China, Ukraine, etc. and for many different causes.

Let me make this simple

The british settled primarily along virgina named after the virgin queen (I so dispise that queen).

The british through several wars finally recieved what is called the thirteen colonies. The colonies then revolted killed and conquered everything else and it wasnt a good sight, but Britain was the first.

But national identity is not the be all, end of a culture. It is part of it. And what language is the official language of Germany, by the way?

German.

But before you say anything smart, remember that it's not OUR fault we were assimulated into Germany. Heck, if the Prussians weren't so stupid, I would agree with the idea.

Italian didnt change too much. I am pretty sure latin didnt change.
Italian didn't change? Are you even aware that during WWII, translators had to be used to communicate between northern and southern Italians...not to mention the sicilians? Italian has many dialects, some that have died out.

And Latin is a dead language (meaning no one speaks it as their mother tongue). So it's not surprising it hasn't changed.

NOw you are stereotyping about speaking 19th century english only in role playing, I use it quite often since it is a great form.
Role playing, as in playing a role, not gaming. And I stand by it. You did not grow up speaking 19th century English.

Italian didnt change too much. I am pretty sure latin didnt change.

Latin did change quite a bit in the 1500 year history of the Roman Empire. It doesn't change anymore because hardly anyone speaks it in common usage, that's why it's called a "dead" language.

Sinuhue, the "ss" is hardly a language change.

And go tell your Prussian prof that I said thanks for ruining Germany for the rest of us.
When you start changing the way things are spelled, it constitutes a change in the written language. A minor one, but still a change.

I will. He'll find that quite amusing. It completely destroys your argument by the way...by giving a shining example of cultural change and assimilation.

Finally, I have had several errors. The Italian language didnt change much, you could still read Dante's the Divine Comedy. The dialectics arent changing the language, just different ways of pronouncing the words such as the english Potatoe (Po tate oh) (Po tah toe) but that doesnt change the language.

Italian didn't change? Are you even aware that during WWII, translators had to be used to communicate between northern and southern Italians...not to mention the sicilians? Italian has many dialects, some that have died out.

And Latin is a dead language (meaning no one speaks it as their mother tongue). So it's not surprising it hasn't changed.

Role playing, as in playing a role, not gaming. And I stand by it. You did not grow up speaking 19th century English.

I still have problems, going really slow now but no error (yet)

I use it when i dont play roles as yell. Now you are assuming that i didnt grow up speaking it. You are right(in this case :mad: ) but i can still speak it HA HA HA

From what I've read in this topic, culture changes so often, it doesn't exist. It's like computer technology, it moves so fast you can never get the newest model...

Finally, I have had several errors. The Italian language didnt change much, you could still read Dante's the Divine Comedy. The dialectics arent changing the language, just different ways of pronouncing the words such as the english Potatoe (Po tate oh) (Po tah toe) but that doesnt change the language.
No. A dialect is not an accent. A dialect is a a different language, with the same root language. For example, my native language is Cree. Plains Cree. Another dialect is Swampy Cree or Bush Cree. I can understand only a few smattering of words in different dialects of Cree, even though they are still Cree languages.

I still have problems, going really slow now but no error (yet)

I use it when i dont play roles as yell. Now you are assuming that i didnt grow up speaking it. You are right(in this case :mad: ) but i can still speak it HA HA HA
So? People speak Latin too, but it's still a dead language. You speak a form of English, but because no one has that form as their mother tongue, it is not a living form. Therefore, the language has changed.

From what I've read in this topic, culture changes so often, it doesn't exist. It's like computer technology, it moves so fast you can never get the newest model...
Yup. Or the right culture. Heck, I'm only 33 years old and when I go to the mall I don't know what the heck is going on with the 16 and 17 year olds!

Look deep, there's cultural change all around and in many ways.

From what I've read in this topic, culture changes so often, it doesn't exist. It's like computer technology, it moves so fast you can never get the newest model...
Just because something happens quickly, that does not negate its existance. Do fast cars not exist? If I speak too quickly, does my language not exist? Do computers not exist because their technology is so quickly evolving?

When you start changing the way things are spelled, it constitutes a change in the written language. A minor one, but still a change.

It's not a spelling change. It's not like we're turning a g into a b. We're using ss instead of the ß. It means exactly the same thing.

It's not a spelling change. It's not like we're turning a g into a b. We're using ss instead of the ß. It means exactly the same thing.
Yes, it does, but that is how languages begin changing. We don't spell old like 'olde' anymore. Anitquated technologies have fallen out of common usage, and the words for them become obsolete. That is change. It can happen slow, or fast. The spelling has CHANGED. It does not profoundly change the meaning or pronunciation, but it DOES affect the written word. Change.

Let me make this simple

The british settled primarily along virgina named after the virgin queen (I so dispise that queen).

The british through several wars finally recieved what is called the thirteen colonies. The colonies then revolted killed and conquered everything else and it wasnt a good sight, but Britain was the first.
Oh, I get your point now.

It's a valid one, that should the US have an official language that would have to be English. And I tend to agree, there are many advantages to having an official language, so many that most countries have one, and sometimes two and even more.

However, people shouldn't be forced to abandon their native language, like it was done at the start of the 20th C in Canada, or like it was done with the Irish.

i believe in cultural darwinism, i.e. that the strongest aspects of every available culture will be integrated (he said despite the fact that the thread seems to now be about diachronic variation within the germanic language).

yeah, cultural darwinism. there is evidence of it all around; english food is horrible so indian food is adopted, there is no efficient way of saying 'that is all good' in spanish so the word 'okay' is adopted, traditional japanese clothing does not offer a suitable medium for teenage rebellion so a wide range of influences from across the world are used.

it is for this reason that i fail to believe that even if muslims were to become the majority in europe we will never see an islamic theocracy. why? because as long as choice exists people will chose liberal freedom over oppression.

In conclusion, fuck multiculturalism. I like my culture the way it is.

Minorities should adapt to the majority. We invented the country, we rule here.

Here in Australia, muslims are terrorising white girls, trying to force them to act like muslims.

Adapt to the majority culture or **** off.

I say we execute any minority member who tries to force majority members to adapt to the minority.
Geez, you must live in a different Australia to the one I do. :rolleyes:

Minorities should adapt to the majority. We invented the country, we rule here.

Here in Australia, muslims are terrorising white girls, trying to force them to act like muslims.

Adapt to the majority culture or **** off.

I say we execute any minority member who tries to force majority members to adapt to the minority.


muslims are all colours, you know. Are you saying 'whiteness' is somehow the opposite of muslimness?

Who invented what country? How does one invent a country? Are you all right?

muslims are all colours, you know. Are you saying 'whiteness' is somehow the opposite of muslimness?

Who invented what country? How does one invent a country? Are you all right?
I think he means we should alll assimilate into an Indigenous lifestyle? *shifty*

I have no problem with the so called multiculturalism (I mean, I'm not really European lol). I like the fact that you don't see just whites here in Vienna.

But!

I have a problem with people who come here and don't adapt to the country. As example, they don't learn German. Well, sorry, but if I would go to live in France (god forbid) I'd have to learn French. If I'd go to the US, I'd have to learn English. So, if you come to live in Austria or Germany, LEARN GERMAN FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!

My parents had to do it too!

I don't see why Turkish women shouldn't. Like the one who had a surgery, because her name looked similar to another Turkish woman and she couldn't speak German to tell the doctors and nurses that she's the wrong one.

Pisses me off.

now, that is a good reason! :) must have pissed her off as well....

Her own fault, if she would have learned German in time... *is mean now, yes*

When my father came to America from Korea in the 1950s, he learned English - not because they told him to, but because he knew there would be economic advantages to doing so.

He speaks fluent English without an accent - well enough to have had a long career as an industrial hygienist, safety officer, government official, and expert witness.

He didn't teach me any Korean, though. I can hardly see the harm in teaching Korean to me, especially when I was young. You might say, "well, you don't need Korean in the US", but that's rather short-sighted. Later in life, I ended up serving in Korea for a while.

Next thing you know, someone will say, "if you come to our country, you have to wear our types of clothing, take the bag off your head, and worship our religion".

When my father came to America from Korea in the 1950s, he learned English - not because they told him to, but because he knew there would be economic advantages to doing so.

He speaks fluent English without an accent - well enough to have had a long career as an industrial hygienist, safety officer, government official, and expert witness.

He didn't teach me any Korean, though. I can hardly see the harm in teaching Korean to me, especially when I was young. You might say, "well, you don't need Korean in the US", but that's rather short-sighted. Later in life, I ended up serving in Korea for a while.

Next thing you know, someone will say, "if you come to our country, you have to wear our types of clothing, take the bag off your head, and worship our religion".

I agree REQUIRING them may not be the best idea (but it can be a safty issue) but we should provide the facilities for them to learn if they wish to.
But I dont see us as having to provide things like specific translaters later on in life (an example of this is at my highschool there was a philipino family that refused to let their children speek english ... the school had to provide a translater at all times to their three kids in school with me )

I also can see how it can be a safty issue in a police/fire situation not knowing any of the language the public infastructure speeks

Geez, you must live in a different Australia to the one I do. :rolleyes:

Don't watch Today Tonight, do you?

Don't watch Today Tonight, do you?
You believe the shit on that show? :rolleyes: That explains a lot...

Have you ever watched Frontline?

In conclusion, fuck multiculturalism. I like my culture the way it is.
Which is why you should support multiculturalism. Because if you ever moved somewhere else, without multiculturalism, you would have to discard your culture for the dominant one.

Which is why you should support multiculturalism. Because if you ever moved somewhere else, without multiculturalism, you would have to discard your culture for the dominant one.
Or even if he stayed and another group became the domininat culture he can also keep his own

Or even if he stayed and another group became the domininat culture he can also keep his own
And I just read he lives in Australia (I assumed from his earlier posts he was living in Germany). So his culture is Prussian (?), he lives in Australia, and loves his culture, and is allowed to keep it, but hates multiculturalism...what...for everyone else?

Troll.

And I just read he lives in Australia (I assumed from his earlier posts he was living in Germany). So his culture is Prussian (?), he lives in Australia, and loves his culture, and is allowed to keep it, but hates multiculturalism...what...for everyone else?

Troll.

No, I hate it when outsiders try to change the culture of other countries. I live in Australia, but I'm a proud Alemanni. But I keep my culture in my house.

Which is why you should support multiculturalism. Because if you ever moved somewhere else, without multiculturalism, you would have to discard your culture for the dominant one.

I don't intend to move anywhere but back to Alemannia.

Or even if he stayed and another group became the domininat culture he can also keep his own

Not gonna happen.

I don't intend to move anywhere but back to Alemannia.



Not gonna happen.
Who says? there have been masive shifts in population over the last 30 years ... it is deffinatly not out of the realm of possibility

No, I hate it when outsiders try to change the culture of other countries. I live in Australia, but I'm a proud Alemanni. But I keep my culture in my house.
I'm sure the Aboriginees didn't much appreciate having outsiders change the culture of Australia....so tough for you. Poetic justice.

I'm sure the Aboriginees didn't much appreciate having outsiders change the culture of Australia....so tough for you. Poetic justice.
I seem to remember pointing this out a few pages ago :fluffle: amazing how we think alike :)

I seem to remember pointing this out a few pages ago :fluffle: amazing how we think alike :)
It's the Native in me.

"GET OFF ME YOU BASTARD, MY HUSBAND'S COMING HOME!" :D

It's the Native in me.

"GET OFF ME YOU BASTARD, MY HUSBAND'S COMING HOME!" :D
Ill pretend I was combing your hair or something :D

Ill pretend I was combing your hair or something :D
Not you, silly goose...the Native IN me....okay, never mind:). Bad joke!

I'm sure the Aboriginees didn't much appreciate having outsiders change the culture of Australia....so tough for you. Poetic justice.

And once again, I point out that the convicts that landed in Australia weren't immigrants, they were invaders. TS for the aborigines.

And once again, I point out that the convicts that landed in Australia weren't immigrants, they were invaders. TS for the aborigines.
Not correct

im·mi·grant Audio pronunciation of "immigrants" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-grnt)
n.

1. A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.
2. A plant or animal that establishes itself in an area where it previously did not exist.

I don't intend to move anywhere but back to Alemannia.


Given the disparity in birth rates (native Germans have a negative population growth), there are going to be vastly more ethnic Turks in Germany than anyone else in just a single generation.

Unless you plan on shoveling them into ovens sometime soon, you're going to be outnumbered.

And once again, I point out that the convicts that landed in Australia weren't immigrants, they were invaders. TS for the aborigines.
Well, since you seem to think of the immigrants coming to your shores now with their own cultures as invaders, TS for you too. Have a nice day.

Back to the point. I still haven't had anyone really point out a PROBLEM with multiculturalism, other than some vague and unfounded fear of losing their own culture.

Yes cultures evolve and they should but multiculturalism has 2 sides, the country that recieve the immigrants has its culture changed by them, the country where the immigrants come from has its culture evole naturally by itself. This leads to western cultures being changed but not by westerners but by immigrants. I dont think that people who come to a country have the right to be able to change that countries culture, it should be allowed to change on its own.

I'm not sure what country you are referring to, but a lot of immigrants coming into Australia (also a multicultural country) are from European or Western countries (England, the Netherlands, Poland, America).

And also, I think that the culture of a country is not just that of the majority groups, it is a conglomeration of all the ethnic groups that the society is comprised of, and therefore, this idea of "not allowed to change" the culture is not valid. And anyway, the culture of an ethnic group within their new adopted country isn't "the same" as that of countries which they originated from, it adapts with the new country as well.

Given the disparity in birth rates (native Germans have a negative population growth), there are going to be vastly more ethnic Turks in Germany than anyone else in just a single generation.

Unless you plan on shoveling them into ovens sometime soon, you're going to be outnumbered.

Bull****. We'll never be outnumber, we're invictus.

Bull****. We'll never be outnumber, we're invictus.
Yes, deny, deny, deny, and ignore the facts.

By the way...aren't you betraying your homeland by living abroad, weakening the strength of your national culture? Shouldn't you go back to shore up the defences against the barbarian invaders?

No, the problem with mulitculturalism is you get militant people like me who are willing to go to the extreme to oppose mixing cultures. We start up our counter culture organizations, our numbers grow, society in all of it's disgusting ways labels us "Satan's children", thus problems are created. :D

No, the problem with mulitculturalism is you get militant people like me who are willing to go to the extreme to oppose mixing cultures. We start up our counter culture organizations, our numbers grow, society in all of it's disgusting ways labels us "Satan's children", thus problems are created. :D
Thats ok immigrants numbers are growing faster then yours are :p

No, the problem with mulitculturalism is you get militant people like me who are willing to go to the extreme to oppose mixing cultures. We start up our counter culture organizations, our numbers grow, society in all of it's disgusting ways labels us "Satan's children", thus problems are created. :D
What you've described is not a problem with multiculturalism. It is a problem you have (in conjunction with others) created in response to multiculturalism. There is a difference.

Not correct

That's not exactly correct either. The reason the English believed that they could "immigrate" if you will to Australia, was because of "Terra Nullius". But obviously, Australia belonged to the Aboriginal people before Captain Cook "discovered" it. Just because the English at the time refused to see it that way allowed for an invasion, not "immigration"

That's not exactly correct either. The reason the English believed that they could "immigrate" if you will to Australia, was because of "Terra Nullius". But obviously, Australia belonged to the Aboriginal people before Captain Cook "discovered" it. Just because the English at the time refused to see it that way allowed for an invasion, not "immigration"
They may have viewed it as invasion rather then imigration but that does not make it so

Yes, deny, deny, deny, and ignore the facts.

By the way...aren't you betraying your homeland by living abroad, weakening the strength of your national culture? Shouldn't you go back to shore up the defences against the barbarian invaders?

91.5% of Germans are German
2.4% of "Germans" are Turkish

But of course, in 25 years those numbers are magically going to switch around, aren't they? Of course they are. Because you said so.

91.5% of Germans are German
2.4% of "Germans" are Turkish

But of course, in 25 years those numbers are magically going to switch around, aren't they? Of course they are. Because you said so.

Last time I was there, there seemed to be more than 2.4%. If Germans have a negative birth rate (and they do), and Turks are having families with 6 or more children, how long do you think it's going to take?

And why aren't you back in Germany fathering children? Eh?

Last time I was there, there seemed to be more than 2.4%. If Germans have a negative birth rate (and they do), and Turks are having families with 6 or more children, how long do you think it's going to take?

And why aren't you back in Germany fathering children? Eh?

Because I'm 16 and I have no money of my own?

They may have viewed it as invasion rather then imigration but that does not make it so
I have to disagree with you on this one. Immigration (the term we are using anyway) is a LEGAL process, involving the movement of people from one nation state to another. Australia before colonialisation was not a nation state, and there was no legal process allowing Europeans to settle there. It was an invasion.

Last time I was there, there seemed to be more than 2.4%. If Germans have a negative birth rate (and they do), and Turks are having families with 6 or more children, how long do you think it's going to take?

A very long time, because we're long overdue for another baby boom.

91.5% of Germans are German
2.4% of "Germans" are Turkish

But of course, in 25 years those numbers are magically going to switch around, aren't they? Of course they are. Because you said so.
Care to share where you got thoes statisitics?

A very long time, because we're long overdue for another baby boom.

I'll let you in on a little clue. You've had negative population growth since the 1980s for people of German descent. No one wants to have babies.

A very long time, because we're long overdue for another baby boom.
Based on what?

Care to share where you got thoes statisitics?

http://www.theworldnews.com.au/Worldguide/index.php3?country=78&header=3

Based on what?

Based on 'cause I freakin' said so.

They may have viewed it as invasion rather then imigration but that does not make it so

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree :) ... although it isn't stated in the definition, immigration implies some agreement on the part of the country to allow the incoming people to settle, whereas invasion is defined as
1. The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer. which in effect was what happened, they bought in govenor philip, soldiers and convicts on the first fleet in 1788. Free settlers didn't come 'til the second fleet in 1789 or 1790.

I'll let you in on a little clue. You've had negative population growth since the 1980s for people of German descent. No one wants to have babies.

And that, of course, means that this trend will continue for eternity and German people will become extinct.

Like you said, things CHANGE. As will this trend. It's just a phase we're going through.

Based on 'cause I freakin' said so.
LOL always a great arguement

91.5% of Germans are German
2.4% of "Germans" are Turkish

But of course, in 25 years those numbers are magically going to switch around, aren't they? Of course they are. Because you said so.
No, the facts say so. Read the following:


Population: 82,424,609 (July 2004 est.)

Ethnic groups: German 91.5%, Turkish 2.4%, other 6.1% (made up largely of Greek, Italian, Polish, Russian, Serbo-Croatian, Spanish)

As of early 1994, approximately 6.8 million registered foreigners resided in Germany. Turks made up the largest group (1.9 million), followed by immigrants from the former Yugoslavia (930,000), Italians (565,000), Greeks (350,000), Poles (260,000), and Austrians (185,000). About 25 percent of these foreign residents, most of whom were born in Germany, are under the age of eighteen. Because of the higher birth rate of foreigners, one of every ten births in Germany is to a foreigner.

And that, of course, means that this trend will continue for eternity and German people will become extinct.

Like you said, things CHANGE. As will this trend. It's just a phase we're going through.
25 year old phase :p

No, the facts say so. Read the following:

And 9 in every 10 briths are German... your point being?

Based on 'cause I freakin' said so.
*watches your entire argument go up in smoke*

You're on the wrong site. This isn't the "Random Unfounded Predictions" Forum.

“Europeans are having fewer and fewer children, while migrant populations, predominantly Muslim, are growing much faster. Most European fertility rates have dropped so much that they have declined below the break-even point, to the degree that populations are actually beginning to shrink. If the current trend continues, Rhys-Davies says, ‘The population of Germany at the end of the century is going to be 56 percent of what it is now. The population of France will decline to about 52 percent.’ Meanwhile, Muslim immigrants are having babies at a much faster clip, so that in time, they may become the majority population throughout Europe. ‘Last year, 56 percent of the babies born in Brussels were Muslim,’ Rhys-Davies notes. ‘In a matter of 20-50 years, we are going to see two to three countries become predominately Muslim — Holland, France, and possibly Germany.’”

“Europeans are having fewer and fewer children, while migrant populations, predominantly Muslim, are growing much faster. Most European fertility rates have dropped so much that they have declined below the break-even point, to the degree that populations are actually beginning to shrink. If the current trend continues, Rhys-Davies says, ‘The population of Germany at the end of the century is going to be 56 percent of what it is now. The population of France will decline to about 52 percent.’ Meanwhile, Muslim immigrants are having babies at a much faster clip, so that in time, they may become the majority population throughout Europe. ‘Last year, 56 percent of the babies born in Brussels were Muslim,’ Rhys-Davies notes. ‘In a matter of 20-50 years, we are going to see two to three countries become predominately Muslim — Holland, France, and possibly Germany.’”

Not going to happen, thanks to our good friend America, who invades Muslim countries and quarantine them indefinitely.

25 year old phase :p

Yeah, like Nazism. That died out, didn't it?

Not going to happen, thanks to our good friend America, who invades Muslim countries and quarantine them indefinitely.
We dont quarantine them ... in-fact a lot of us accept them with open arms

Yeah, like Nazism. That died out, didn't it?
only by force

Not going to happen, thanks to our good friend America, who invades Muslim countries and quarantine them indefinitely.

You might notice that we aren't quarantining anyone. We're setting up democratic governments and setting up business infrastructures, and the occasional military base.

Other than that, nothing. Certainly nothing along the lines you're thinking of.

only by force

As will this trend.

As will this trend.
You are going to force people to have sex?

And 9 in every 10 briths are German... your point being?
Point being, foreign born families tend to have larger families...

In contrast to the native population, foreigners in Germany tend to have more children and larger households. In 1988 their average household size was 3.5 persons.

So, you have an average of 3 children per family of those born in other countries, compared to the birth rate of less than 1 per German family (meaning they either don't have kids, or they have 1). So that's 3 people of foreign decent on average have three more kids each..while your German brethren continue not to have children. That kind of population shift, coupled with increasing immigration, means an overall population change in terms of ethnic makeup is going to be pretty rapid. Then it won't be 1 out of 10...it'll be more like 6 out of 10....then 8 out of 10....unless you go and single handedly stop this trend...

Point being, foreign born families tend to have larger families...



So, you have an average of 3 children per family of those born in other countries, compared to the birth rate of less than 1 per German family (meaning they either don't have kids, or they have 1). So that's 3 people of foreign decent on average have three more kids each..while your German brethren continue not to have children. That kind of population shift, coupled with increasing immigration, means an overall population change in terms of ethnic makeup is going to be pretty rapid. Then it won't be 1 out of 10...it'll be more like 6 out of 10....then 8 out of 10....unless you go and single handedly stop this trend...

The Vaterland will never be overrun by those scum. Just wait and see.

You are going to force people to have sex?

I was thinking something more along the line of Napoleon's "ma sacrée toux" treatment.

The Vaterland will never be overrun by those scum. Just wait and see.
The actual Turkish and Kurdish population is 3.2 percent at this time. It's expected to double every 10 years. Meanwhile, the Germans are expected to decline in population to the point where your median age native German will be 58 years old in 2050. Despite the actual increase in non-Germans, the total population in Germany will still decline to 60 million by 2050.

You need to get busy and make babies.

The Vaterland will never be overrun by those scum. Just wait and see.
Uh-huh. 16 and already planning to install a new reich to resurrect the ayrian race...all from Australia no less...

Well, anyway, enough of this sidetracking and hijacking...you have yet to state a real problem with multiculturalism other than your own bigotry. Start a thread about the ethnic makeup of Germany if you wish. Otherwise, unless you have something to add to this topic, refrain.

The actual Turkish and Kurdish population is 3.2 percent at this time. It's expected to double every 10 years. Meanwhile, the Germans are expected to decline in population to the point where your median age native German will be 58 years old in 2050. Despite the actual increase in non-Germans, the total population in Germany will still decline to 60 million by 2050.

You need to get busy and make babies.

And I said that things change. You can't expect everything to continue on course all the time.

So what you're all suggesting is that we should just give up, and commit mass suicide, because that's what's going to happen anyway?

Fine...

The Vaterland will never be overrun by those scum. Just wait and see.
thoes "scum" will be running your home contry before too long :) better be nice or they will remember you called them scum :p

So what you're all suggesting is that we should just give up, and commit mass suicide, because that's what's going to happen anyway?

Fine...
No one is saying anything ... you pretend like it is a race or something

No one is saying anything ... you pretend like it is a race or something

You're saying that we're inferior to Muslims and should just surrender... well, maybe I'll kill myself...

You're saying that we're inferior to Muslims and should just surrender... well, maybe I'll kill myself...
Lol where did I ever say that?

Lol where did I ever say that?

The actual Turkish and Kurdish population is 3.2 percent at this time. It's expected to double every 10 years. Meanwhile, the Germans are expected to decline in population to the point where your median age native German will be 58 years old in 2050. Despite the actual increase in non-Germans, the total population in Germany will still decline to 60 million by 2050.

There.

The actual Turkish and Kurdish population is 3.2 percent at this time. It's expected to double every 10 years. Meanwhile, the Germans are expected to decline in population to the point where your median age native German will be 58 years old in 2050. Despite the actual increase in non-Germans, the total population in Germany will still decline to 60 million by 2050.

There.

That was me, not Upward...

The actual Turkish and Kurdish population is 3.2 percent at this time. It's expected to double every 10 years. Meanwhile, the Germans are expected to decline in population to the point where your median age native German will be 58 years old in 2050. Despite the actual increase in non-Germans, the total population in Germany will still decline to 60 million by 2050.

There.
I never said that? and how is that calling you inferior?

I never said that? and how is that calling you inferior?

He thinks that you are me! He needs one of these... :fluffle:

That was me, not Upward...

Same crap, you're all arguing the same thing...

I never said that? and how is that calling you inferior?

You said we're going to die out... might as well get the process started...

I ****ing feel like killing myself right now...

Same crap, you're all arguing the same thing...

I never said that? and how is that calling you inferior?

You said we're going to die out... might as well get the process started...

I ****ing feel like killing myself right now...

I said you need to start making babies.

He thinks that you are me! He needs one of these... :fluffle:
No kidding :fluffle: he needs to take life a lot less seriously

I said you need to start making babies.

Which is just a nice way of saying "You're all going to die"...

The problem with multiculturism is that while it certainly does breed respect for other cultures it also breeds resentment for other cultures. The response to this? Those that are resentful are demonized. The problem with this? Trying to crush resentment is universally met with, well, increased resentment. The common "solution" to the problem only succeeds in intensifying it. You can not force people to respect something, the harder you try the more hateful they become. End of story.

Sure you can call these people ignorant, backwards, idiotic, racist, bigot, intolerant or any other word that has come to represent the people that disagree with you. You are free to say whatever you damn well please, it will NOT help the problem, it will NOT make these people disappear simply out of the virtue of not aligning to your chosen set of principles. Besides that the nature of the situation is ripe for self-loathing, at least for those not suffering from PIIAS that realize the hypocrisy.

Culture does not exist independent of the people of a given area. It does not evolve separately and expect people to follow along against their will. This is simply not the nature of culture, in fact to even consider stating such a thing is blatant idiocy. Culture is what the people make it, it is the collective reflection of the populous. Also, by nature it reflects the majority. If you attempt to force the majority to change their culture to pander to the minority, you will succeed in changing the majority. Yes, you will change it all right; you will create a resentful majority who is fully capably of antagonizing the minority to brutal effect.

Conclusion, attempted to artificially manipulate culture in favor of the concept of forced multiculturalism does not in any way better the situation of the minority. It breeds resentment and in extreme cases (which become more common the harder you push) it breeds racism.

Same crap, you're all arguing the same thing...

I never said that? and how is that calling you inferior?

You said we're going to die out... might as well get the process started...

I ****ing feel like killing myself right now...
Did not ... just said you might not be the majority

Did not ... just said you might not be the majority

Which is just as good as being slaves...

Which is just as good as being slaves...
Not nessisarily ... maybe the majority will treat you better then you have treated the minority's in your area

Which is just a nice way of saying "You're all going to die"...

Since humans have a limited lifespan, the only sure way to ensure the survival (at least in limited form) of your genetic material, not to mention any of your cultural heritage, is to bear children and raise them.

You need to have more than two children per couple, or you're not getting anywhere. I, for example, am a biological success, as I have had three children.

Since humans have a limited lifespan, the only sure way to ensure the survival (at least in limited form) of your genetic material, not to mention any of your cultural heritage, is to bear children and raise them.

You need to have more than two children per couple, or you're not getting anywhere. I, for example, am a biological success, as I have had three children.
I probably wont be a sucess but its probably a good thing :p

Since humans have a limited lifespan, the only sure way to ensure the survival (at least in limited form) of your genetic material, not to mention any of your cultural heritage, is to bear children and raise them.

You need to have more than two children per couple, or you're not getting anywhere. I, for example, am a biological success, as I have had three children.

What the hell use is that for me? Oh goody, one German survived. While GERMANY, land of the GERMANS, is occupied by Muslims.

Why can't those ****ers leave us alone?

What the hell use is that for me? Oh goody, one German survived. While GERMANY, land of the GERMANS, is occupied by Muslims.

Why can't those ****ers leave us alone?
Well duh germany has germans ... in fact everyone born there (including muslem kids) are german
So germany is not really dying out (well even so it is in decline but that could changE)

What the hell use is that for me? Oh goody, one German survived. While GERMANY, land of the GERMANS, is occupied by Muslims.

Why can't those ****ers leave us alone?

Your government invited them there, because Germans weren't replacing their own working age population fast enough. Then they stayed. They're still there, and most of them are German citizens now.

There have been multiple waves of barbarians who crossed the German plains throughout history - and the people you call the Germans were not the first. And not the last, I'm afraid to say.

Which is just a nice way of saying "You're all going to die"...
TROLL.

Quite feeding the trolls...

Why do I bother? I ****ing feel like **** right now...

Any of you ever get the impression that no one reads or posts unless it contains some inflammatory statement?


*pwnzed*

Conclusion, attempted to artificially manipulate culture in favor of the concept of forced multiculturalism does not in any way better the situation of the minority. It breeds resentment and in extreme cases (which become more common the harder you push) it breeds racism.
People are going to be racist and bigoted no matter what.

Multiculturalism is not about forcing the majority to be like the minority. It is allowing everyone to retain their culture. You want to see a polar opposite of that? Look at the Kurds in Turkey. They can not speak their language, wear traditional dress, follow their traditions, or act "Kurdish" in public. Multiculturalism is often enacted poorly, but it is a valid concept. It allows people to fund private schools in their native language. It allows people to have cultural centres where they can get together as a community and celebrate things specific to that culture. It does not say that no one has to learn the dominant language, or that every service will be offered in 80 different languages. It does not mean that a minority culture gets precedence over the majority...only that we are not going to forbid that minority from practicing their culture.

It means accepting that people are different, and that trying to force them to assimilate in the sense of discarding their own culture, isn't necessarily a positive thing.

Ekland...don't get banned for flaming just to get your posts read.

People are going to be racist and bigoted no matter what.

Multiculturalism is not about forcing the majority to be like the minority. It is allowing everyone to retain their culture. You want to see a polar opposite of that? Look at the Kurds in Turkey. They can not speak their language, wear traditional dress, follow their traditions, or act "Kurdish" in public. Multiculturalism is often enacted poorly, but it is a valid concept. It allows people to fund private schools in their native language. It allows people to have cultural centres where they can get together as a community and celebrate things specific to that culture. It does not say that no one has to learn the dominant language, or that every service will be offered in 80 different languages. It does not mean that a minority culture gets precedence over the majority...only that we are not going to forbid that minority from practicing their culture.

It means accepting that people are different, and that trying to force them to assimilate in the sense of discarding their own culture, isn't necessarily a positive thing.

I long for the day when Europe is like Turkey, but before that day comes all Europeans will be dead...

****...

I long for the day when Europe is like Turkey, but before that day comes all Europeans will be dead...

****...


For the record. Let it be known that I do not agree with this man.

People are going to be racist and bigoted no matter what.

Believe it or not, VERY few people are willing to devote themselves so utterly to an extreme without something resembling a reason.

I was thinking something more along the line of Napoleon's "ma sacrée toux" treatment.

1) It never happened. http://www.snopes.com/language/misxlate/toux.htm
2) So you're advocating genocide? Nice.

1) It never happened. http://www.snopes.com/language/misxlate/toux.htm
2) So you're advocating genocide? Nice.

1) I know, but it's fun to pretend.
2) Yes, if it was feasable. But my race is going to be wiped out anyway, so feh.

The only way Europe could be saved is if the entire continent plunged into late 1st millenium style chaos. People would stop immigrating and the majority of minorities would be wiped out in war...

The only way Europe could be saved is if the entire continent plunged into late 1st millenium style chaos. People would stop immigrating and the majority of minorities would be wiped out in war...
And it would be a sadder place for it ... people can bring such life and such diversity to things ... that would be a sad day

Believe it or not, VERY few people are willing to devote themselves so utterly to an extreme without something resembling a reason.
I think you're wrong. The kind of person that would devote themselves so wholeheartedly to something like extreme racism, is someone with an obsessive personality. No doubt they would find something else to fixate their anger/low-self-esteem/miscellanous issues on that would probably be just as negative.

People who speak out casually against multiculturalism usually do it about a specific policy that doesn't make sense to them. It doesn't necessarily make them racist. They may not like the idea of affirmative action, or that that they had to listen to Korean pop music on the bus ride home, but they aren't going to go out and beat up 'foreigners' for fun.

I think the extreme IS the minority...and hopefully always will be. This extreme IS the problem, not the concept of multiculturalism itself.

1) I know, but it's fun to pretend.
2) Yes, if it was feasable. But my race is going to be wiped out anyway, so feh.

...

Well, Sinuhue I believe has given you the answer. If it is important to whomever you classify as Germans, they need to undergo a social change and to begin a campaign to have as many children as possible to keep up.

And it would be a sadder place for it ... people can bring such life and such diversity to things ... that would be a sad day

That would be the greatest day in the history of the existence of the universe.

Not going to happen anyway...

...

Well, Sinuhue I believe has given you the answer. If it is important to whomever you classify as Germans, they need to undergo a social change and to begin a campaign to have as many children as possible to keep up.

It's not going to happen, why bother trying... why bother even existing...

That would be the greatest day in the history of the existence of the universe.

Not going to happen anyway...
And I am glad it wont happen

It's not going to happen, why bother trying... why bother even existing...
I dont know why bother existing if you will always be the majority as well ... why bother existing at all
What is the point to life?

The only way Europe could be saved is if the entire continent plunged into late 1st millenium style chaos. People would stop immigrating and the majority of minorities would be wiped out in war...


...Isn't your point that you feel your ethnic group is becoming a minority? Why would you then welcome the wiping out of minorities?

And I am glad it wont happen

So you're pro-European genocide?

...Isn't your point that you feel your ethnic group is becoming a minority? Why would you then welcome the wiping out of minorities?
I dident understand that either (nicly put by the way)

...Isn't your point that you feel your ethnic group is becoming a minority? Why would you then welcome the wiping out of minorities?

I mean current minorities.

I guess I just don't understand why anyone's happiness is predicated on someone else's existance.

So you're pro-European genocide?
No I am anti genocide at all ... it is not a all or nothing proposition
Their not dying does not mean you have to die

Besides even if the muslems were not there it does not change the fact that german population is in decline

No I am anti genocide at all ... it is not a all or nothing proposition
Their not dying does not mean you have to die

Besides even if the muslems were not there it does not change the fact that german population is in decline

I'd rather have none of us and none of them than less of us and more of them.

Although I'd prefer all of us and none of them

I guess I just don't understand why anyone's happiness is predicated on someone else's existance.

I....

No, I think I'd better not...

I'd rather have none of us and none of them than less of us and more of them.

Although I'd prefer all of us and none of them
why?

why?

Because they breed like rabbits and will soon rule the Earth and subjugate people who aren't Muslim.

Soon you'll be in my shoes, but there'll be nobody left to have this conversation with.

I feel all suicidal... I feel sick.

I....

No, I think I'd better not...


TG me. ;)

Logoff, go outside and play rugby for a few hours, then go downtown, have a few beers with your friends, and then go get laid.

Works wonders when you've been overexposed to worldwide political reality.

I should stop bothering with Germany and focus on my other ethnic half.

Maybe the Ukrainians will have better luck existing than the Germans did...

I should stop bothering with Germany and focus on my other ethnic half.

Maybe the Ukrainians will have better luck existing than the Germans did...
Wait a minute....you're not even full blooded? Yikes. I see that this is going to get even more complicated soon.

*steps away from the thread that is rapidly turning into a racist rant/cry for help*

1) I know, but it's fun to pretend.
2) Yes, if it was feasable. But my race is going to be wiped out anyway, so feh.

Meh.

Pray tell, what is the genetic identity of this "race"?
How are Germans a race?
How can they be identified genetically?

Here's a cheat sheet:
There isn't one.
They aren't.
They can't.

I feel all suicidal... I feel sick.

If this is true, please get help.

Meh.

Pray tell, what is the genetic identity of this "race"?
How are Germans a race?
How can they be identified genetically?

Here's a cheat sheet:
There isn't one.
They aren't.
They can't.

They're the white race. Which is quickly being overrun.

Wait a minute....you're not even full blooded? Yikes. I see that this is going to get even more complicated soon.

*steps away from the thread that is rapidly turning into a racist rant/cry for help*

How do you figure?

They're the white race. Which is quickly being overrun.
Which does not answer his questiosn in the least

Which does not answer his questiosn in the least

Yes it does. He asked how we can be identified from other races. We have white skin.

Yes it does. He asked how we can be identified from other races. We have white skin.
He asked for GENETIC differences

He asked for GENETIC differences

WHITE SKIN.

WHITE SKIN.
Psst thats not a genetic difference ... besides he was asking for genetic traits that differ GERMAN ... not just WHITE from everyone else