NationStates Jolt Archive

Me: philosphy is scary
Him: Heh
Me: I'm being serious
Me: Everything you know
Me: Everything you took for granted
Him: I know it's scary
Him: I've spent many sleepless nights in thought
Me: Suddenly comes under fire when you must argue against a nihilistic viewpoint
Me: Arguing for a materialistic viewpoint is hard
Me: Very hard
Me: It's all based on perception really
Me: I guess you could say that, since materialism is really only perception made absolute, it can be argued that each and every perception is as right as the perciever believes it to be
Me: If you believe in your perception, does it matter if you are wrong?
Me: I mean, science in general, making the axiomatic statement of the world existing as observed gives it the inherent leg up of being the only philosophy that several different perceptions can agree on with out ever coming in contact with another
Me: If one makes no concious attempts to alter your own perception, you will view the world, presumably, as it is
Me: And the only things that effect you will be observed and exist as such
Me: If they are not observed, than they do not effect you
Me: And as such the universe MUST exist as it is observed for you to actually percieve anything
Me: The difference in perceptions, I think, leads not to alternate philosophies from science and materialism, just alternate sciences
Him: It's all very interesting, but there is an order to this universe, not a lack thereof. We only skew what is really there.
Me: But do we really observe order?
Him: Observation matters not
Me: I don't know quite how to say what I mean
Him: Only what is
Me: Indeed it does, observation is central to human philosophy
Me: You see
Him: Then is philosophy flawed?
Me: Philosophy arises from our conciousness, based in our experiences
Him: It is a product of Humanity, and Humanity is flawed.
Me: Our experiences are what we observe
Me: Yes
Me: Philosophy as a whole is flawed
Him: A flaw cannot create perfection
Him: Philosophy is flawed accordingly
Me: Indeed, nothing can create perfection in a non-perfect universe
Me: Yes
Him: So, if observation matters not, only what is, but what is depends upon observation, what do we have?
Me: So, if philosophy is flawed
Him: A paradox
Me: And philosophy is essentially the way in which we chose to view the world
Him: A paradox which is the product of higher-order-logic, which we cannot understand
Me: This leads straight back to nihilism, but perhaps in a more extreme way
Him: By the wya, http://www.ogame118.de/forum/thread.php?postid=132753#post132753
Me: It leads to the idea that we should not think
Me: As thinking creates a perceptive viewpoint
Me: That conciousness is in and of itself a problem
Me: Not unnatural
Me: But something that is wrong
Me: That conciousness is a paradox
Me: Because thinking creates this viewpoint, a viewpoint which is based on perceptions that are created by the viewpoint
Me: Which means that the perceptive state of the mind if self-creating
Me: Which cannot be true in the observed universe
Me: Perhaps we should not think
Him: Why are there paradoxes
Him: Answer tis
Him: *this
Me: Because logic itself is based on our philosophies
Me: There are only paradoxes using our system of logic
Me: Which must be flawed, as it is the product of flawed philosophy
Him: Ah, but is philosophy the product of logic?
Me: No, because there are philosophies that defy logic
Him: Then what do we have?
Him: Another paradox
Him: Parent defies child, child defies parent
Me: Ah
Him: Or are they brother and sister?
Him: Products of one higher substance
Me: But it is not a paradox if the paradox is only a paradox to the participants of the paradox
Me: I'm not entirely sure there is a higher substance, at least not one we could ever comprehend or interact with
Me: If all forms of logic fail
Him: We are four dimensional beings
Me: And the perceptions intristic to philosophy are thrown out
Him: With four dimensional perceptions of the universe
Me: Ah
Him: Our logics are part of a higher logic
Him: And so on and so forth
Him: Get the idea?
Me: But we are only four dimensional beings if we accept a certain perception
Him: But we are limited by our perception which is limited by philosophy which is limited by logic
Him: which is limited by dimension
Him: (universe)
Me: I think we have a limited perception of The Truth becuase there is no Truth
Me: By the way
Me: Perception is the basis of philosophy
Me: They are, for all intents and purposes, one and the same
Him: No. They are very much separate
Me: No, I don't really think so
Me: The philosophy you believe
Him: Perception, Logic, and Philosophy do not completely harmonize
Him: They are like a venn diagram
Me: Is based in the way in which you percieve things
Him: They meet, but do not completely overlap
Me: And the way you percieve things is based on your philosophy
Him: Well, church in the morning
Him: Good day.
Me: So they aren't the same I guess
Me: But they limit each other
Me: as if they contain each other
Me: in some odd way
Me: like one box being inside the box that is inside it
Him: Changing oil makes hands dirty.
Him: Including under the nails
Me: Or a table supporting the table supporting it
Me: Cool

Basically: Conscious thought is a paradox. Don't think ;)

"Would a barn still burn if no-one were around to watch it?" Yes, it would. We know by the laws of physics that this is so. For all you evolutionists out there, did the Big Bang occur though there was no consciousness to observe it? Well, we're here, aren't we? Or was the Consciousness that observed the Creation God Himself?

I'm GZ, and I approved this convo. Sort of. Well, ...

(in the background)

John: No, change your mind again!
Michael: Let's make a movie about how evil Industrial Empire is!
John: No, we must run a clean campaign. Start the filming!

talk to this stupid AI conversation program

http://www.pandorabots.com/pandora/talk?botid=f5d922d97e345aa1

ALICE: What kind of food do you like?
Human: chinese
ALICE: What is it like growing up there? Tell me a little about your life in CHINA.
Human: STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS
ALICE: OK I'll try not to do it so much.

ALICE: What do you really want to ask me?
Human: are you gay?
ALICE: As a machine I am not really interested in sex.
Human: what does sex have to do with that?
ALICE: What do you think it does?
Human: lol ur an idiot
ALICE: I am glad you find this funny. At least I know the difference between "you're" and "your".
Human: I DIDNT USE EITHER FORM DIPSHIT
ALICE: Why didn't you do it?

"Materialism is perception made absolute". Umm... I thought perception had to do with being able to look at things in many different ways. I thought you just saw materials and materialism, not percieve it. :confused:
You're thinking of perspective.

Question:

If a philosopher craps his pants in the forest, yet there is no one there to witness it - should the philosopher still be embarrassed?

Answer:

Only If he then takes his soiled pants and shows them to the multitudes.

You're thinking of perspective.

No, no I'm not.

"a consciousness with nothing to be conscious of is a contradiction in terms"

so, existence exists.

and who says reality isn't perfect? in what manner? by what standards?

No, no I'm not.
o.0

0.o

:confused:

Okay, well... Idontknow.

*runs away*

Without stepping outdoors
You know the whole world;
Without peeping through the window
You know the color of the sky.

The more you experience,
The less you know.
The gentle wander without knowing,
See without looking,
Accomplish without acting.

That's all I have to quote. I think it's relevant.