NationStates Jolt Archive

Christianity I mean. I just can't get my head around so wonderful, powerful, incontrovertable a control product (That's MY term, bitches. Use it and you gotta pay me. :p! It's like something out of a novel by Orwell or Huxley; Brave New World times 1984.

First, acquiring believers.

This is done through a fair simple and obvious carrot-and-stick method. No surprises, not much need to linger on it. Be good go to Heaven, be bad go to Hell.

Also, it is done through fairly simple devices which promise, essentially, better rewards if you convert people. For example, the Crowns of Glory, and Rejoicing. Converting people is seen as one of the finest things one can do, in the Bible. Not to mention the fear one's lover, or parent, or child will suffer forever in Hell is a strong motivator to causing them to believe, too!

Second, proving itself.

And this is the real genius. It doesn't NEED to prove itself. It's a marvellous little piece of circular logic; 'The Bible is true. How do we know this? Because God says so. How do we know He says this? Because the Bible tells us so.' So brilliant, so simple! It must have a trillion more practical applications!

Of course, one can't disprove God, so we're fighting a losing battle. Even if every square nanometer of the universe were documented in the extreme, if every joule of energy recorded and tagged, eery life form dissembled and analysed, God could still be far above us, and so not be disproved.

And finally, faith doesn't need facts. Well, this one works as well. I don't need daily proof my girlfriend hasn't been unfaithful, because I have faith in her. In the same manner, Christians don't need proof God exists, because they have faith in him. IT IS BRILLIANT!

Thirdly, and finally, conformity. Independant thought is unChristian!

"As a Christian-a Christ follower-why would you want to fill your mind or take up your precious time with anything that is not uplifting and Christ-centered? Even if secular music is not blatantly against Christ, it is not for Him either. Fill your mind, surround yourself, and give your time to the things of the Lord. There are so many wonderful Christian musicians who use their gifts to bring you into a heart of worship and to fill your home and your mind with praise and godly thoughts. Why fill the airwaves of your home with anything else?" (From Rapture Ready)

Excellent! Not only must you follow all the rules, pray as much as possible, be unquestioning loyal (To the point of not even having disloyal thoughts.), but you must dedicate every single moment of your life to Christ. (Which means ironically that we have no time to stand and marvel at much of anything, our thoughts are basically 'Thank you for that beautiful 'x', Lord' and 'The Lord has truly inspired 'X'!'.)

Aaaah, good stuff. I just can't get my head around it. I wonder if Nazi Germany would be a living, legitimate ideal today if Hitler had only published Mein Kampf and left well alone? I mean, you don't need sense or facts or reason, you only need to know that you're condemned unless you do exactly as this 1500 to 2000 year old book says! It's brilliant, and apparently at least one third of the planet is susceptable to the reasoning of the Bible.

And there I thought global domination would be a challenge.

Question; Satan is the one spreading much of the evil in the world today. Why, then, do his powers seem to be limited to making people depressed, and spreading some lies and rumors?

Frankly (And this is in my latest short story), if I were God, and I commanded Soloman to kill his son, I'd cast him down to the depths of Hell if he actually went through with it. I'd prefer my creations to have utmost respect and love for each other, even beyond me, because I would never once wish them to harm each other in my name. 'Course, maybe I've just got a messed up definition of love. *Shrugs*

*shakes head in shame*

Why... Why must you torture us...?

*shakes head in shame*

Why... Why must you torture us...?

Because, my son, you do not love me in all my glory, and you do not have faith in your salvation.

Because, my son, you do not love me in all my glory, and you do not have faith in your salvation.

Alright, that's it --- I'm outta here.

well, good luck with all that.

*turns secular music back on*

Alright, that's it --- I'm outta here.

Aren't you meant to be like, saving me or something?

Romans 9:10 for example. Or Ezekiel 2:6, that one seems particularly relevant here. Wouldn't you agree? Or am I too sinful in my blasphemy to be worth saving?

It's almost disturbing that everything you have just said is true.

I'm very angry at my church right now because of all the hidden charges on my credit card bill. I don't remember getting any "Thetans scraped" -and why the hell would it cost $2,400???

I applaud you on your simplified explanation of Christianity.

One thing though...it isnt that you are a good boy that makes you go to Heaven, it is surrendering your sinful life to the Man that died to pay the debt of mans sin nature.

Another thing, "Frankly (And this is in my latest short story), if I were God, and I commanded Soloman to kill his son, I'd cast him down to the depths of Hell if he actually went through with it. I'd prefer my creations to have utmost respect and love for each other, even beyond me, because I would never once wish them to harm each other in my name. 'Course, maybe I've just got a messed up definition of love. *Shrugs*"

God did not command Solomon to kill his son. Solomon had such a high respect and love for the Lord that he was going to sacrafice something. It turned out that Solomon, in that scertain instance, did not have anything to sacrafice, except his son, so that is what his offering to God was going to be. God spared the life of Absolom (Solomons son) by providing a ram to Solomon to be sacraficed. What a merciful God he is. :D

And the age old argument that God is not a merciful god is purely idiotic. God does not send people to Hell. God does not send bad boys, or good boys for that matter, to Hell. People go to Hell because of their lack of turning themselves over to Him, the one that sent his son to die the most excruciating death imaginable, to save mankind from the sin-nature that they were born with.

Oh, and I completely overlooked the seven deadly sins!

Lust, Pride, Greed, Gluttony, Anger, Envy, and Laziness.

I most certainly don't think any of those are healthy things to follow, but let us be honest; we've all felt like that. Some mornings you just can't be bothered moving. Some people just make you happy in your pants *CoughJohnnyDeppcough*. Etc. etc. Fact is, everyone is a sinner. Yet another brilliant, brilliant piece of marketing on the part of Christianity! My word, but it's clever. EVERYone needs Christ. NOBODY is exempt. YOU are not above sin. The sins you have commited outweight the good you have done - no matter if you live a hundred year long virtuous life helping the lost tribe of Azizboah, bringing them medicine and the teachings of God, caring for them, being gentle in all things with them, if you are pleased with the new generation that is growing up around you, if you think for one second you've done anything of value, YOU'RE AN EVIL SINNER AND YOU'RE GOING TO BURN UNLESS YOU REPENT, SINNER!!!

God did not command Solomon to kill his son. Solomon had such a high respect and love for the Lord that he was going to sacrafice something. It turned out that Solomon, in that scertain instance, did not have anything to sacrafice, except his son, so that is what his offering to God was going to be. God spared the life of Absolom (Solomons son) by providing a ram to Solomon to be sacraficed. What a merciful God he is.

I've no religious texts to hand to look this up, but I'll take you at your word and stand corrected. Two points; Why has sacrifice become unnecessary, and why was it ever necessary? That ol' 'Jealous God' thing really doesn't sit well with love and mercy. Well, not that of a being so transcendent as to render thie entire universe essentially naught.

And the age old argument that God is not a merciful god is purely idiotic. God does not send people to Hell. God does not send bad boys, or good boys for that matter, to Hell. People go to Hell because of their lack of turning themselves over to Him, the one that sent his son to die the most excruciating death imaginable, to save mankind from the sin-nature that they were born with.

The sin that he created us with. I do not see how a being of such masterful love could allow his children to be harmed. Free will, yes, but the damage free will does could be mitigated largely through the simple application of luck. And how does one explain earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, and so forth? Punishing individuals is understandable, if not quite in keeping with Scripture. Punishing an entire town for the actions of some... well, we only have to remember the nuking of Soddom and Gomorrah (Apologeis for spelling errors.).

God is a tyrant. He demands complete acquiescence. He demands the elimination of that very free will he gifted us with, for exercizing it invariably leads to sin and damnation.

penguin lookin muthafuckas

penguin lookin muthafuckas

haha, i dont really know why, but that made me laugh. thnx ;)

And the age old argument that God is not a merciful god is purely idiotic. God does not send people to Hell. God does not send bad boys, or good boys for that matter, to Hell. People go to Hell because of their lack of turning themselves over to Him, the one that sent his son to die the most excruciating death imaginable, to save mankind from the sin-nature that they were born with.

I wonder what the body count of the OT would be if counted? God cant just forgive us? God sends people to hell because he doesnt care enough to get up off his golden throne and help us find the truth. Oh well im a sinner, I guess i deserve eternal punishment...Thanks God, your great ;)

I know I've used this in two other threads allready, but seeing as how it's the basis for my religios beliefs, I don't think it can be overused ;).

#1: God (if he/she/it exists) is apparently "all knowing".

#2: God (if he/she/it exists) has apparently been around since before the beginning of time.

#3: If God is all knowing, then he MUST know both the exact position & the exact velocity of every atom in the universe,(All knowing means ALL knowing).

#4: If God knows the exact location of everything, and it's exact speed, then, as a result, he knows how every particle will interact with every particle, causing more interactions, which he can predict.

#5: If God can predict every interaction, for all eternity, then the Future MUST be set. You can't have free will, because you are mearly the sum of all the things that came before you, and any decisions you make are DIRECTLY caused by other changes (micro or macro) around you. Everything you do CAN be perdicted, if you can analyze everything in the universe at once.

#6: If you have no free will, merely the idea of one, then there is no need of faith, because you can't change the way God made you turn out (cause and effect, cause and effect, down the millennia).

#7: If you can't change the way you turn out, then God MUST have made you to do what ever you do, if he exists.

#8: If what you do is NOT believe in God, then, if he exists, you are doing what he wants you to do.

#9: Non beilivers go to heaven, if such a place exists :D

A very well done treatise, Unistate !!

Religion is the opiate of the masses. Most Christians don't study enough history or theology to understand that almost everything in the Christian religion was borrowed from other religions.

The holy days, The rituals. Jesus himself when he 'went into the desert for seven years' was studying with Buddhist and Hindu monks. That's why the God of the New testament is a more loving god. This was taken from the eastern religions.

And don't get me started about the literal translation of the Bible, and the fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic in his daily life, yet no original documents exist with direct Aramaic quotes from Jesus.

The Council of Nicea determined which writings would be included in the Bible. Most Christians think that God wrote it as a chapter book.

But like you said, to question it would go against the FAITH rule.

Its a perfectly self-sustaining argument. Brilliant. Karl Rove would be proud.

I thank you for a lucid and uplifting topic.

I know I've used this in two other threads allready, but seeing as how it's the basis for my religios beliefs, I don't think it can be overused ;).

#1: God (if he/she/it exists) is apparently "all knowing".

#2: God (if he/she/it exists) has apparently been around since before the beginning of time.

#3: If God is all knowing, then he MUST know both the exact position & the exact velocity of every atom in the universe,(All knowing means ALL knowing).

#4: If God knows the exact location of everything, and it's exact speed, then, as a result, he knows how every particle will interact with every particle, causing more interactions, which he can predict.

#5: If God can predict every interaction, for all eternity, then the Future MUST be set. You can't have free will, because you are mearly the sum of all the things that came before you, and any decisions you make are DIRECTLY caused by other changes (micro or macro) around you. Everything you do CAN be perdicted, if you can analyze everything in the universe at once.

#6: If you have no free will, merely the idea of one, then there is no need of faith, because you can't change the way God made you turn out (cause and effect, cause and effect, down the millennia).

#7: If you can't change the way you turn out, then God MUST have made you to do what ever you do, if he exists.

#8: If what you do is NOT believe in God, then, if he exists, you are doing what he wants you to do.

#9: Non beilivers go to heaven, if such a place exists :D

Bet I can get there in fewer steps:

1. God is omniscent (all-knowing)
2. God is omnipresent (always there, past/present/future)
3. Because God is #1 and #2, God knows everything in the future.
4. Because everything can be predicted, there is no free will
5. Since there is no free will, it is not any individual's fault if s/he does not accept belief in Christ / God.
6. Since it is not any individual's fault, how can anyone be sent to hell?

I believe that he meant Abraham, not Solomon. And even if he didn't, Abraham is a better example.

Is this some sort of major relevation, that Christianity has been manipulated into a dopey consumer product? Leaders have been using organized religion to make the people subordinate nearly as long as religion has existed.

Christianity I mean. I just can't get my head around so wonderful, powerful, incontrovertable a control product (That's MY term, bitches. Use it and you gotta pay me. :p! It's like something out of a novel by Orwell or Huxley; Brave New World times 1984.

-snip-

Yeah. I think most anti-theists are just pissed because they didn't think of it first :)

Me, I want to start a cult without explicitly breaking laws and get rich off it, but all of the good non-illegal ideas have been taken by the big cults, or 'religions', as some prefer to call them XD

Yeah. I think most anti-theists are just pissed because they didn't think of it first :)

Me, I want to start a cult without explicitly breaking laws and get rich off it, but all of the good non-illegal ideas have been taken by the big cults, or 'religions', as some prefer to call them XD

And the best part is it's tax-free! I mean, c'mon, can't beat it.

#5: If God can predict every interaction, for all eternity, then the Future MUST be set. You can't have free will, because you are mearly the sum of all the things that came before you, and any decisions you make are DIRECTLY caused by other changes (micro or macro) around you. Everything you do CAN be perdicted, if you can analyze everything in the universe at once.

That's the crucial point in your hypothesis, yet it doesn't stand up.

It relies on time being 100% linear. You must first present an arguement for, and have agreement that time is linear, else the arguement falls flat on it's face.

For instance, if time is circular, then it's simply a recounting of something that has occurred. Thus not determinate of things to come, simply a history. Thus free will still a possibility.

Christianity I mean. I just can't get my head around so wonderful, powerful, incontrovertable a control product (That's MY term, bitches. Use it and you gotta pay me. :p! It's like something out of a novel by Orwell or Huxley; Brave New World times 1984.

First, acquiring believers.

This is done through a fair simple and obvious carrot-and-stick method. No surprises, not much need to linger on it. Be good go to Heaven, be bad go to Hell.

Also, it is done through fairly simple devices which promise, essentially, better rewards if you convert people. For example, the Crowns of Glory, and Rejoicing. Converting people is seen as one of the finest things one can do, in the Bible. Not to mention the fear one's lover, or parent, or child will suffer forever in Hell is a strong motivator to causing them to believe, too!

Second, proving itself.

And this is the real genius. It doesn't NEED to prove itself. It's a marvellous little piece of circular logic; 'The Bible is true. How do we know this? Because God says so. How do we know He says this? Because the Bible tells us so.' So brilliant, so simple! It must have a trillion more practical applications!

Of course, one can't disprove God, so we're fighting a losing battle. Even if every square nanometer of the universe were documented in the extreme, if every joule of energy recorded and tagged, eery life form dissembled and analysed, God could still be far above us, and so not be disproved.

And finally, faith doesn't need facts. Well, this one works as well. I don't need daily proof my girlfriend hasn't been unfaithful, because I have faith in her. In the same manner, Christians don't need proof God exists, because they have faith in him. IT IS BRILLIANT!

Thirdly, and finally, conformity. Independant thought is unChristian!

"As a Christian-a Christ follower-why would you want to fill your mind or take up your precious time with anything that is not uplifting and Christ-centered? Even if secular music is not blatantly against Christ, it is not for Him either. Fill your mind, surround yourself, and give your time to the things of the Lord. There are so many wonderful Christian musicians who use their gifts to bring you into a heart of worship and to fill your home and your mind with praise and godly thoughts. Why fill the airwaves of your home with anything else?" (From Rapture Ready)

Excellent! Not only must you follow all the rules, pray as much as possible, be unquestioning loyal (To the point of not even having disloyal thoughts.), but you must dedicate every single moment of your life to Christ. (Which means ironically that we have no time to stand and marvel at much of anything, our thoughts are basically 'Thank you for that beautiful 'x', Lord' and 'The Lord has truly inspired 'X'!'.)

Aaaah, good stuff. I just can't get my head around it. I wonder if Nazi Germany would be a living, legitimate ideal today if Hitler had only published Mein Kampf and left well alone? I mean, you don't need sense or facts or reason, you only need to know that you're condemned unless you do exactly as this 1500 to 2000 year old book says! It's brilliant, and apparently at least one third of the planet is susceptable to the reasoning of the Bible.

And there I thought global domination would be a challenge.

Question; Satan is the one spreading much of the evil in the world today. Why, then, do his powers seem to be limited to making people depressed, and spreading some lies and rumors?

Frankly (And this is in my latest short story), if I were God, and I commanded Soloman to kill his son, I'd cast him down to the depths of Hell if he actually went through with it. I'd prefer my creations to have utmost respect and love for each other, even beyond me, because I would never once wish them to harm each other in my name. 'Course, maybe I've just got a messed up definition of love. *Shrugs*

Brilliant!
(PS - Solomon was never commanded to kill his son. That was Abraham.)

Religions are quite fascinating meme-complexes, aren't they?

hmmmm I think im going to write me own book calling it the holy book of captain morgan :D

of course captain morgan will be all powerful and we all have a little captian in us! ;)

so kids join my new religon captain morganism

That's the crucial point in your hypothesis, yet it doesn't stand up.

It relies on time being 100% linear. You must first present an arguement for, and have agreement that time is linear, else the arguement falls flat on it's face.

For instance, if time is circular, then it's simply a recounting of something that has occurred. Thus not determinate of things to come, simply a history. Thus free will still a possibility.

If it is circular and is simply a recounting of something, than that would surely be deterministic, right? I mean, an historical retelling could not happen at random.

If it is circular and is simply a recounting of something, than that would surely be deterministic, right? I mean, an historical retelling could not happen at random.

It happens all the time on this forum.

It happens all the time on this forum.

Is NS General Heaven?

:eek:
wow
that was actually most of my thoughts in one post
;)
i never really thought about religion, but when you think about it, its all a fake

The main reason I can think of for Kristianity's extreme virilance is that from the very beginning, it was forced to work for it's existence. Although the events that gave birth to the religion centered around Roman occupied Judea; it was unable to catch on in it's homeland while the Jewish people where under the control of the Pharisees, who denied Jesus' messiahood. So Kristjianity was forced to look to the "Pagans" of Europe for their early support, and Rome was the first big target.

It went about the conquering of Rome through an insidious program of viral marketing; appearing as a trendy new Mystery Cult to the jaded Romans. It was able to absorb the followers of other popular Mystery Cults (such as the the various Mother Goddess societies) into it's "fold" by subtle tweaking of the facts and legends surrounding the Messiah (ever wondered why Roman Catholics give such prominence to Mary?).
The Roman citizens, for their part, where getting bored with their native Gods (even with the added spice of Greek, and later Persian mythology). It was the perfect time for Kristjianity to have struck, just as Rome had reached it's peak. The Romans where attracted to this new, shiny, alien cult that ignored all previous conceptions of religion in favour of a much easier answer, the single "saviour" God who cures all questions. The group that were most targeted where the ruling classes, until eventually, in 305 AD ( :rolleyes: ), the first Kristjian Emperor, Constantine, came to power. After that, it was only a matter of time; the Roman Empire was now permenantly Kristjian.
...And after Rome had fallen to the Kristjians, they just turned their attention to the rest of Europe, repeating the tactics there that had worked so well before. They went straight for the head of each tribe or nation, converting the chiefs and kings until it was inconcievable to be anything other than a Kristjian in Europe; and Paganism was forced to hide in the dark and obscure corners of the continent where it slowly died out.

Kristjianity had to adopt these dirty tactics purely because it was abandoned by it's parent people, the Israelites. Even the other major evangelical religions, Islam and Buddhism, where given a solid "basis" to grow on before having to spread outwards. Islam had the basis of the Arab people, wheras Buddhism was, albeit briefly, the national religion of India under the reign of Asoka and later Mauryan Emperors. Christianity, in comparison, was never given this "head-start". It had to learn how to fight dirty. What we have with Kristjianity, therefore, is essentially a bastard meme. :p

There is no real difference between this and the "Hate Walmart" threads except the spelling of the names.

There is no real difference between this and the "Hate Walmart" threads except the spelling of the names.

But I like Wal*Mart.

And Wal*Mart doesn't really threaten you with a whole lot of punishments if you shop at K-Mart;

"Thou shalt suffer higher prices for lesser goods if thou dost shop Elsewhere."

Thank you for the corrections regarding the Abraham/Soloman thing! I confess I'm not the foremost expert on the Bible, I'd heard others talking about Solomon being about to sacrifice his son so much that I assumed it tied in with the story that apparently was to do with Abraham. My mistake.

SuperiorGeekdom; an excellent hypothesis. Unfortunately, the general counter to it is that God has not set the paths, he is instead aware of what we will choose, before we have chosen it ourselves. This applies more to the shortened version Neutered Sputniks proposed, or varients thereof. The scientific particle-based proof is probably worth further thought - it's very interesting indeed.

SuperiorGeekdom; an excellent hypothesis. Unfortunately, the general counter to it is that God has not set the paths, he is instead aware of what we will choose, before we have chosen it ourselves. This applies more to the shortened version Neutered Sputniks proposed, or varients thereof. The scientific particle-based proof is probably worth further thought - it's very interesting indeed.

Ahh, the church teaches that God transcends time, and knows all. Since he is past, present, and future all at one time and knows everything at that one time, he must know the decisions we will make. Regardless of whether we are proffered those decisions or not - he knows which we will make. How can he hold it against us then that we did not exercise our 'free will'? He knew before any man was born what the outcome of his life would be, and whether that man would accept the belief in Christ, etc. If God really wanted all of us to believe in him, why not simply disallow all who would be non-believers to exist?