NationStates Jolt Archive

Internationalism and capitalism have been the plague of mankind for over a century, and it is clear these doctrines have long be obsolote, for as time goes by there are both increased demands for a planned state, and the idea of cooperation between nations has shown to be unachievable. Until recently nationalism and its related doctrines such as Fascism that supported a planned state with socio-economic controls as well as withdrawl from the international system was the most viable and realistic option. We cannot deny the past importance of nationalism, especialy Fascism, for it was the only doctrine that allowed anyone to escape internationalist chaos and command their own destinies. Such nations were productive and had strong economies and were very stable, even though the only true Fascist state was flawed, those that copied it did better with basically the same economic principles of the Corporate State, though Fascism was never racist or a promoter of cults. Now however we must accept that traditional nationalism is on its death-bed, for the challanges mankind is facing and will face are such that we can only meet them totaly united with no borders to distract us. The concept of individual nations on the Earth will soon become rediculous as we realize just how small the Earth is from watching it shrink from the windows of spacecraft. We will realize that we are too fragile to further weaken ourselves through our current denomination. All nationalist movements today then must be cowardly, for they seek to withdraw from a world they could save, only to save a small corner of it. At the same time internationalism is still a failure and an oxy-moron. Think about it, inter-NATIONALISM. It implies we can all get along as nations, which history has proven naive. The conclusion then must be to seek a new doctrine, and that doctrine should be Earthism, or Earth Nationalism. We are now in a position in which finaly one nation will be able to conquer the entire world, and when it does so it will herald the end of the two old doctrines. We can expect a few things from this new world and new order, which if you want to simplify it constitutes nationalism evolved to suit a grander scale. Earth is a nation, with nothing on Earth being an empire, but everything in space considerd an imperial possession. It will mean the death of the universal franchise, that "counts all noses alike", and instead the common sense doctrine will be Syndicalism and the Ocupational Franchise, in which industry is self-governing while being loyal to a central government. I say common sense because a nation on this scale will quickly learn that the only thing that crosses vast distances unchanged is labor, and it will be impposible for such a huge population to be governed with a unversal vote, and so authority must be based on ocupation. The new nation will of course be mans first autarky, or state that is totaly self sufficient, for obviously everythng we need is right here on Earth, at least until we find something on Mars we decide we can't live without. And of course the global organization will be better able to plan and organize the use of natural resources to keep them from running out, and it can develope new ones to replace them. In short, our future is in the Corporate State, a modern Fascist Ultra-Nation that will rule the world, and the world will like it.

Whilst the complete absence of paragraphing hurt mein eyes, I like. I like a lot. Corporate states are taking too damned long to come about...

Nationalism will never die. So long as there are human beings who engage in the creation of seperate ethnic/political/geographical units, there will be nationalism. It colors everything we do, say and think about the world.

Check this out. (http://hackvan.com/pub/stig/etext/george-orwell/george-orwell--political-predictions-and-nationalism.htm)

Humanity is not one. It never has been. We're divided along dozens of lines. Language, religion, geographic location, interests, dress, diet, all sorts of things. A global state would only fuck everything up. It would grow a huge bureaucracy, which would never accomplish anything.

Humanity is not one. It never has been. We're divided along dozens of lines. Language, religion, geographic location, interests, dress, diet, all sorts of things. A global state would only fuck everything up. It would grow a huge bureaucracy, which would never accomplish anything.

Or it might just remove some of the most inane barriers like trade and immigration laws, thereby allowing more free exchange and movement of ideas, thereby, eventually, breaking down the barriers.

But yano. That's just my optimism :p

Edit; Actually, I'd like to point out that none of those things are consistent in any country larger than Andorra. I don't speak the same lingo as someone in Wales, or even London does, yet those places aren't three hours away from me. I don't dress the same as plenty of other white, suburban, late teenage males. I love videogames, reading, and movies. Other people from identical demographics worldwide, nevermind the same country, like the same, and other people from the same demographics like sports, cooking, and playing the piano.

*Shrugs* Just seems to me that nationality is one of the most pointless, artifical dividers ever concocted. Nations have had their time; now it's time for Humankind.

Humanity is not one. It never has been. We're divided along dozens of lines. Language, religion, geographic location, interests, dress, diet, all sorts of things. A global state would only fuck everything up. It would grow a huge bureaucracy, which would never accomplish anything.

As much as I like the idea advocated in the original post, I have to agree with Andaluciae. The idea of a global state is nearly impossible, and even more so to make it socialist, let alone fully communist!

Edit: I know you didn't say "communist" anywhere, but judging by your claim of capitalism as a plague in the opening sentence, I take it this is what kind of state you would wish for. If I am wrong, please correct me.

As much as we'd like nationalism to be dead, it isn't.

Internationalism and capitalism have been the plague of mankind for over a century, and it is clear these doctrines have long be obsolote, for as time goes by there are both increased demands for a planned state, and the idea of cooperation between nations has shown to be unachievable. Until recently nationalism and its related doctrines such as Fascism that supported a planned state with socio-economic controls as well as withdrawl from the international system was the most viable and realistic option. We cannot deny the past importance of nationalism, especialy Fascism, for it was the only doctrine that allowed anyone to escape internationalist chaos and command their own destinies. Such nations were productive and had strong economies and were very stable, even though the only true Fascist state was flawed, those that copied it did better with basically the same economic principles of the Corporate State, though Fascism was never racist or a promoter of cults. Now however we must accept that traditional nationalism is on its death-bed, for the challanges mankind is facing and will face are such that we can only meet them totaly united with no borders to distract us. The concept of individual nations on the Earth will soon become rediculous as we realize just how small the Earth is from watching it shrink from the windows of spacecraft. We will realize that we are too fragile to further weaken ourselves through our current denomination. All nationalist movements today then must be cowardly, for they seek to withdraw from a world they could save, only to save a small corner of it. At the same time internationalism is still a failure and an oxy-moron. Think about it, inter-NATIONALISM. It implies we can all get along as nations, which history has proven naive. The conclusion then must be to seek a new doctrine, and that doctrine should be Earthism, or Earth Nationalism. We are now in a position in which finaly one nation will be able to conquer the entire world, and when it does so it will herald the end of the two old doctrines. We can expect a few things from this new world and new order, which if you want to simplify it constitutes nationalism evolved to suit a grander scale. Earth is a nation, with nothing on Earth being an empire, but everything in space considerd an imperial possession. It will mean the death of the universal franchise, that "counts all noses alike", and instead the common sense doctrine will be Syndicalism and the Ocupational Franchise, in which industry is self-governing while being loyal to a central government. I say common sense because a nation on this scale will quickly learn that the only thing that crosses vast distances unchanged is labor, and it will be impposible for such a huge population to be governed with a unversal vote, and so authority must be based on ocupation. The new nation will of course be mans first autarky, or state that is totaly self sufficient, for obviously everythng we need is right here on Earth, at least until we find something on Mars we decide we can't live without. And of course the global organization will be better able to plan and organize the use of natural resources to keep them from running out, and it can develope new ones to replace them. In short, our future is in the Corporate State, a modern Fascist Ultra-Nation that will rule the world, and the world will like it.


I'm placing this under the Wishful thinking folder.

As much as we'd like nationalism to be dead, it isn't.
And probably won't be for a long time. Like capitalism, it's something that must be endured.

And probably won't be for a long time. Like capitalism, it's something that must be endured.
And slowly whittled down...

And probably won't be for a long time. Like capitalism, it's something that must be endured.

*Crosses fingers* I hope this won't cause yet another debate on this subject . . .

And slowly whittled down...

My thoughts exactly.

My thoughts exactly.
And mine.

Shiet. That is so long, it hurt my eyes just trying to read it.

Anyway, you should watch X-men.

Humans for one aren't very good at sharing or coming together unless they are motivated to fight a bigger threat. Plus we'll always be a bigot one way or another unknowingly or subconciously.

This is disorganized and unsupported. It starts with an unproven, specious claim, and declines from there. There is a complete lack of separation of ideas, making it difficult to read, as has been pointed out above.

However, the spelling and grammar seem, at first glance at least, to be above average for this type of rant on NS.

I give it a 2.3 out of 10.

As a fellow Fascist Comrade and friend of Noble Jagara, I personally object to his call for the destruction of Nationalism.
Destruction of Nationalism is impossible and if anyone ever tried it they aggrssors would get crushed themselves.
Nationalism is a good thing as it can call people to do the right and honourable thing for their Nation. It doesnt call for racial superiorty as that is another thing entirely.

Most Fascist recognise the sanctity and rights of different cultures to live as they want to live and without interfearance from other nations.

I see I was misunderstood, though I am not sure why. The micromangers who feel we need perfect grammer can shove it where they traditionaly shove things, though I will try to seperate some paragraphs.

I thought I was clear that I am not calling for the destruction of nationalism, just its evolution into a more healthy nationalism involving all of Earth. Traditional Nationalism is allready useless, and will find its last task in the nationalist state that conquers the world. I never said other cultures should be suppressed, just that mankind should unite based on similarities and leave differances to cultural amusment. I would like to be able to sing all the anthems and wave all the flags, as well as learn every civilization's history and take pride in it as my own, a citizen of Earth. I never indicated that everything would be swell with no more problems. Mankind must be forced to unite by a strong power such as America, and it will have to play dirty, messing with economies and waging blitzkreigs. There are so many benefits to a single Earth nation. No tarrifs, or "aliens" that arn't actualy from Mars or something. I described how this state would be an autarky, where every province could get the industrial materials needed to maintain a modern civilization.

And of course if you see as I do that mankind's ultimate purpose is in space, unity and the harmonization of global resources is the only way to achieve this. Imagine that some day we may be dealing with alien races. Do you want them to see how stupid we are to be so divided and weak on our own planet while they have probably built empires? What about when we are colonizing other planets, will we put borders on them too? Traditional nationalism is a farce now. In the past it was an honest sanctuary, but today strong nations should expand and not be isolationist, for only in this manner will the world be conquerd at last and large wars will basicaly stop. I am in no way a socialist. I am a Fascist, which lies inbetween Capitalism and Socialism and takes from them the "aquired facts" or things they got right and rejects the rest. Socialists are ignorant for they are internationalist, and because what they don't know is that their "fight for peace" they are always on about is literaly a fight, with guns and bombs, a real war that must be fought untill the end of time in the enforcment of peace.

Edit; Actually, I'd like to point out that none of those things are consistent in any country larger than Andorra. I don't speak the same lingo as someone in Wales, or even London does, yet those places aren't three hours away from me. I don't dress the same as plenty of other white, suburban, late teenage males. I love videogames, reading, and movies. Other people from identical demographics worldwide, nevermind the same country, like the same, and other people from the same demographics like sports, cooking, and playing the piano.

*Shrugs* Just seems to me that nationality is one of the most pointless, artifical dividers ever concocted. Nations have had their time; now it's time for Humankind.
Methinks...
First, on the comment about languages: I'm not talking about dialects. I'm talking about full-fledged different languages, the differences between French and Chinese, German and Farsi, Hindi and English. Not just regional dialects of these various individual languages. I'm talking about the national identity factor.

Second, the comment on dress: When I refer to dress I am referring to a general thematic design. i.e. pants and shirts are what westerners wear, Roman citizens wore togas, Arabs wear those...things...(I don't remember the name of the clothing.) Now admittedly, western styles have spread due to western projection and efficiency, but various nations retain their own cultural style of clothing.

And things like videogames and reading are little more than the expression of various national interests. For example, Katamari Damacy (a very enjoyable game in my opinion) isn't very westernized, it has a lot of the overtones of Japanese culture, and as such, it isn't the biggest seller in the west, in fact, in the west it's considered just plain weird. Their are various broad categories that you can find across humankind, but these are filled with various expressions of national identity.

Nationality is just one of the many ways people divide themselves up. For example, I'm a member of a organization at a university, (John Glenn Institute), Most of my friends here come from either this group, or my hometown.

Or my membership at the university is a divider, as Ohio State is vehemently opposed to Michigan, our big rivals.

there will always be people who disagree with the method of government they live under. people who think likewise always clump together.

your vision of a united earth would be one huge country with small parts of it always claiming independance. force them to stay as one nation and your uber nation would soon crumble. don't force them and it crumbles anyway.

communism and capitalism both have the same pitfall, greed. democracies and dictatorships both suffer from oligarcal structures.

as has already been stated, humans will only ever work together when a big immediate threat comes along. there aren't too many of those about...

*snip*

So now that the fascist ploy for enslaving the public has become obsolete, you throw out another idiotic reason for everyone to subservient to the state?

I'm sorry, but until someone can show that fascism is not the worst government idea ever, "Earthism" isn't going to do anything for me.

I am a Fascist, which lies inbetween Capitalism and Socialism and takes from them the "aquired facts" or things they got right and rejects the rest.

It is not between capitalism and socialism. It is socialism without the class warfare. It is socialism where the government brainwashes the public through war so that the workers won't demand fair pay. It is one of the biggest turd the collective human race has ever shit.

In short, our future is in the Corporate State, a modern Fascist Ultra-Nation that will rule the world, and the world will like it.
Not while I draw breath.