NationStates Jolt Archive

Now I will admit right off the bat that I havent heard or know much about the case until recently. I did some of my own quick research though.

Is there any proof that Matt Hale was linked to the murders!? Based on what I see there is NOT! What has the American court system come too? What ever happend to innocent until PROVEN guilty! Matthew Hale has been wrongly imprisoned and for 40 years! That is a total outrage! Since when is expressing an alternate belief a crime? Especially in the land of freedom and free speech! Just because he is a white supremicst doesnt mean he can be thrown in prison for it! Hell if we are going to do that then why dont we through the ACLU in there too then! They are just as extreme as the KKK or neo-Nazis! This is nothing more than toatl injustice!

FREE MATTHEW HALE!

Now I will admit right off the bat that I havent heard or know much about the case until recently. I did some of my own quick research though.

Is there any proof that Matt Hale was linked to the murders!? Based on what I see there is NOT! What has the American court system come too? What ever happend to innocent until PROVEN guilty! Matthew Hale has been wrongly imprisoned and for 40 years! That is a total outrage! Since when is expressing an alternate belief a crime? Especially in the land of freedom and free speech! Just because he is a white supremicst doesnt mean he can be thrown in prison for it! Hell if we are going to do that then why dont we through the ACLU in there too then! They are just as extreme as the KKK or neo-Nazis! This is nothing more than toatl injustice!

FREE MATTHEW HALE!Well, being that you probably already have views that are similar to Hale's, the evidence that you would see would probably be from sources that are similar, and therefore would probably be biased in his favor.

As a side note, it is laughable that you view the ACLU as extreme as the KKK. The KKK advocates violence, the ACLU does not.

i am still wondering why you bother, emerica. a person who is too cowardly and/or not strong enough to answer on any of the whitenationalist philosophy, you apparently think you have the key to the universe. you did quick research on matthew hale. what?on stormfront? were you in court? presented with the evidence? i dont think so. and, as a nationalist- you are supposed to back up your government and its judicial authority. you should read more. need me to give you some links? its a shame that a person like me , knows more about this than a person with the nation name Fascist Emerica. i have seen you waffle back and forth on general for months now, and its quite sad. people like you are why your movement never had any credibility.

what makes you think there wasnt any evidence?

he may have gotten a harsher sentence because the court was freaked that the family of the judge he was plotting to kill got killed in february. he may have gotten an incompetent defense, but that is his constitutional right.

just what has made you think he was convicted on NO evidence?

HA! Just because I believe in the same views you think I would get the info from StromFront! To be one hundred percent truthfull I got most of the info from articles from TalkLeft (or DirectLeft) something along those lines. I will look it up again if you really want to know what the name of it was!

Show me the PROOF that Matt Hale was in on the murders and then I will make a decision. He is innocent until PROVEN guilty!

what makes you think there wasnt any evidence?

he may have gotten a harsher sentence because the court was freaked that the family of the judge he was plotting to kill got killed in february. he may have gotten an incompetent defense, but that is his constitutional right.

just what has made you think he was convicted on NO evidence?


"he was plotting to kill" How do we know that HE was plotting to kill them! When in actualilty it was one of his followers who did the killing. There is no proof that Hale told and/or motivated the killings!

Since Matt Hale is from here, I've had the (mis)fortune to meet him. While I personally don't agree with much of what he says, he does have the right to say it. One thing I did take away from our meeting, was that he really is quite an intelligent person. Of course most "Cult of Personality" types are, that's how they can manipulate the masses. My only point being, I find it hard to believe that he would conspire to murder a federal judge or her family. He would have to know the CIA/FBI/(insert secret gov. org.) would be watching his "organization" like a hawk. Especially after 9/11. It just seems uncharacteristically stupid to broker such a deal over the phone the way he supposedly did.

"he was plotting to kill" How do we know that HE was plotting to kill them! When in actualilty it was one of his followers who did the killing. There is no proof that Hale told and/or motivated the killings!

I believe they have taped phone recordings of him hiring the hitman.

HA! Just because I believe in the same views you think I would get the info from StromFront! To be one hundred percent truthfull I got most of the info from articles from TalkLeft (or DirectLeft) something along those lines. I will look it up again if you really want to know what the name of it was!

Show me the PROOF that Matt Hale was in on the murders and then I will make a decision. He is innocent until PROVEN guilty!

uuuhhhh. he was proven guilty. honestly, i dont think you read stromfront because of your views, i think you read stormfront because of your.....ahhhhh attitude.

Since Matt Hale is from here, I've had the (mis)fortune to meet him. While I personally don't agree with much of what he says, he does have the right to say it. One thing I did take away from our meeting, was that he really is quite an intelligent person. Of course most "Cult of Personality" types are, that's how they can manipulate the masses. My only point being, I find it hard to believe that he would conspire to murder a federal judge or her family. He would have to know the CIA/FBI/(insert secret gov. org.) would be watching his "organization" like a hawk. Especially after 9/11. It just seems uncharacteristically stupid to broker such a deal over the phone the way he supposedly did. thats the thing. they arent watching them anymore. they are watching the al quaeda types.

"he was plotting to kill" How do we know that HE was plotting to kill them! When in actualilty it was one of his followers who did the killing. There is no proof that Hale told and/or motivated the killings!
and getting minions to do crimes for the leader is the trademark of any gang. you dont get to be the leader , with dirty hands. step out of the internet world, and for once, imagine REAL LIFE.

and getting minions to do crimes for the leader is the trademark of any gang. you dont get to be the leader , with dirty hands. step out of the internet world, and for once, imagine REAL LIFE.


But he did not ORDER that killing! The killer acted on his own!

and Red Sox Fan - your second post contradicted your first! Read them over and you'll see what I mean!

HA! Just because I believe in the same views you think I would get the info from StromFront! To be one hundred percent truthfull I got most of the info from articles from TalkLeft (or DirectLeft) something along those lines. I will look it up again if you really want to know what the name of it was!

Show me the PROOF that Matt Hale was in on the murders and then I will make a decision. He is innocent until PROVEN guilty!
why dont you get court transcripts so you can be satisfied?
that the news outlets couldnt be bothered to talk about what the evidence was doesnt mean it doesnt exist. it just means they didnt report it.

yes, he is innocent until proven guilty. thats why we have trials. he has been proven guilty by a court of law. all he can do now is appeal. maybe if he gets a better "lawyer" he can get a new trial.

Actually, I don't think it matters if it was Hale who physically did the killings. Wouldn't he be convicted of the crime anyway, simply because when any crimes commited by members of an organization that are done in the “name of the organization” or its ideology on an official level, the leader is also responsible for the crimes because it is impossible for him to not know of their actions. This was used to try Nazi war criminals and others, so it might apply here as well. Not sure though.

Is there any proof that Matt Hale was linked to the murders!? Based on what I see there is NOT!

It may surprise you to find out you are not privy to all the information in the entire world. As great a shock as it may be, you do not, in fact, know everything. There may be things that you have not seen. Surprising, I know. I would highly recommend getting over it.

"he was plotting to kill" How do we know that HE was plotting to kill them! When in actualilty it was one of his followers who did the killing. There is no proof that Hale told and/or motivated the killings!

He was not linked to the man who killed the Judge's wife and mother, but he directly solicited an undercover FBI informant to actually kill the judge. I think that is the proof you are looking for.

I got that from Yahoo news, so there wasn't much research required.

Now I will admit right off the bat that I havent heard or know much about the case until recently. I did some of my own quick research though.

Is there any proof that Matt Hale was linked to the murders!? Based on what I see there is NOT! What has the American court system come too? What ever happend to innocent until PROVEN guilty! Matthew Hale has been wrongly imprisoned and for 40 years! That is a total outrage! Since when is expressing an alternate belief a crime? Especially in the land of freedom and free speech! Just because he is a white supremicst doesnt mean he can be thrown in prison for it! Hell if we are going to do that then why dont we through the ACLU in there too then! They are just as extreme as the KKK or neo-Nazis! This is nothing more than toatl injustice!

FREE MATTHEW HALE!


:rolleyes:

You are either deliberately ignorant or you are trolling.

If you had either done the research you claim or consulted a calendar, you would know that Matthew Hale was not sentenced for 40 years for the murders of Judge Lefkow's family.

Try to follow along.

A year ago -- April 2004 -- Hale was convicted of solicitation of murder and 3 counts of obstruction of justice. He was plotting to have Judge Lefkow killed. Solicitation of murder of anyone is a crime. That it was a federal judge that he plotted to kill did not help.

A few weeks ago -- February 2005 -- Judge Lefkow's husband and father were murdered. Hale has not been charged with those crimes and it appears they may be unrelated to him.

On Wednesday -- April 6, 2005 -- Hale was sentenced to 40 years on his convictions for solicitation of murder and obstruction of justice.

Hale is innocent until proven guilty of the murders. It appears he will likely not even be charged with those crimes. But there is no way he could possibly have been convicted and sentenced in federal court in a few weeks.

Hale was innocent until he was proven guilty of separate, earlier crimes.


Here is some information any "research" should have easily found:
A DIFFERENT BREED OF TERRORIST - Hate Group Leader Convicted of Plotting Federal Judge's Murder (http://www.fbi.gov/page2/june04/hale060904.htm)
Supremacist sentenced to 40 years for trying to have judge killed (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/06/white.supremacist.trial.ap/index.html)

Well put, CT.

-snip-

Excellent. Even though it was an easy target.

You can be an ornery prick at times, but you usually know what you are talking about, and you back it up with articles as well.

Excellent. Even though it was an easy target.

You can be an ornery prick at times, but you usually know what you are talking about, and you back it up with articles as well.

Thank you. I take that all as a compliment.

This was like dynamiting fish in a barrel, however. Fascists just are what they used to be. :D Ah, the good ole days. :D

(I try to be less of a prick, but its hard (heh, heh) and being a jerk is so much fun. ;) )

Well put, CT.

Thank you. You're a wonderful audience. Thank you, thank you very much. ;)