NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, looks like the government now gets to tell companies exactly how they should spend their money:

Maryland Walmart Law (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28219-2005Apr5.html)

What do yall think?

I edited the link to go to the first page correctly.

Can't get the first page. What does the bill do exactly?

Can't get the first page. What does the bill do exactly?
It specifies that companies with over 10000 employees must use at least pay at least 8% of their payroll for health coverage, or, if not, give the balance to the government.

Thats good news. We subsidize Wal-Marts corporate irresponsiblity, since so many of their workers are poor they often require publicly funded medicaid and food stamps and other such benefits. Laying the costs on those responsible is only fair. If walmart didn't constantly violate labor laws anyway, there would be unions and decent conditions for workers which would make this kind of legislation unnecessary. Hooray for Maryland.

Hell Yeah! Go get 'em, Maryland

Thats good news. We subsidize Wal-Marts corporate irresponsiblity, since so many of their workers are poor they often require publicly funded medicaid and food stamps and other such benefits. Laying the costs on those responsible is only fair. If walmart didn't constantly violate labor laws anyway, there would be unions and decent conditions for workers which would make this kind of legislation unnecessary. Hooray for Maryland.

Not to mention the countless illegal immigrants that they don't even have to pay minimum wage.

Looks to me like cutting off the nose to spite the face. Walmart will probably just lay off 5001 workers, and open more stores just the other side of the border, effectively diminishing any sales or corporate taxes Maryland would otherwise have collected, not to mention the jobs lost.

Just curious, would any of you like it if you owned a small business, and I came in and said you must spend 8% of your payroll on political action committees?

Thats good news. We subsidize Wal-Marts corporate irresponsiblity, since so many of their workers are poor they often require publicly funded medicaid and food stamps and other such benefits. Laying the costs on those responsible is only fair. If walmart didn't constantly violate labor laws anyway, there would be unions and decent conditions for workers which would make this kind of legislation unnecessary. Hooray for Maryland.

Haha, there's a video that you get to watch when you become a Wal-Mart employee that equates labour unions with the Mafia. It's great, it shows some guy in a black hat and trenchcoat coming up to a new hire and saying in a most secretive voice "Wanna join a union?" If I had to watch that, I would have been fired for laughing my ass off in the middle of training.

Yes, no unions at Wal-Mart does mean better prices for the consumer. But it also means that the managment can dick the employees around seven ways from Sunday and they can't do anything about it. I hope this goes through and lays a big fat steaming turd on Wal-Mart's pile of ill-gotten booty.

All American store, my ass.

Not to mention the countless illegal immigrants that they don't even have to pay minimum wage.
They settled the case of hiring illegals for janitorial work. They are probably one of the few employers in the south that do not hire illegals anymore.

Alas the link only takes me to the second page of the article, and when I cliked the link to go to the first page it asked me to sign in, so I'm not quite sure what the legislation is about...

This all goes back to West Coast Hotel v. Parish .

Well I expect it will all go pear shaped, just like much of the new deal did.

I am curious though, does Md., spend 8% of its payroll on health benefits, or does it exempt itself?

Not to mention the countless illegal immigrants that they don't even have to pay minimum wage.

Actually, IIRC, it wasn't wall mart that hired them, but a sub-contractor. I could be wrong, but I think that was what happened.

They settled the case of hiring illegals for janitorial work.

For an amount far, far less than it would have costed to actually pay them for their work.

They are probably one of the few employers in the south that do not hire illegals anymore.

Ha! You really believe they don't!? Are you really that naive?

As long as it is cheaper to do so, companies will continue to hire illegals. What we ought to do is force companies that are caught not only to pay huge fines, but also to pay back wages to every illegal up to the point that a legal worker would have received, including pay increases over time.

Just curious, would any of you like it if you owned a small business, and I came in and said you must spend 8% of your payroll on political action committees?
Read the article, please. Small Business isn't feeling anything from this law, as the 8% rule only applies to large businesses whose employment reaches over a certain threshold.


DeMarco said the bill did not aim solely at Wal-Mart. Johns Hopkins University, Giant Food and defense contractor Northop Grumman Corp. have enough employees to fall under the bill's requirements.

Just curious, would any of you like it if you owned a small business, and I came in and said you must spend 8% of your payroll on political action committees?
Wonder when the hell did I get 10,000 employees!

Do I win!?!?!?

Thats good news. We subsidize Wal-Marts corporate irresponsiblity, since so many of their workers are poor they often require publicly funded medicaid and food stamps and other such benefits. Laying the costs on those responsible is only fair. If walmart didn't constantly violate labor laws anyway, there would be unions and decent conditions for workers which would make this kind of legislation unnecessary. Hooray for Maryland.
Of course, they wouldn't require publicly funded medicaid or food stamps it they were UNEMPLOYED! *sarcasm intended*

Logic, folks, logic.

As long as it is cheaper to do so, companies will continue to hire illegals. What we ought to do is force companies that are caught not only to pay huge fines

I'm with you there. The companies that hire them are breaking the law.

but also to pay back wages to every illegal up to the point that a legal worker would have received, including pay increases over time.

Hmm. Let's see - pay back wages to someone who was working ILLEGALLY in the first place? Makes a lot of sense to me. *sarcasm* I might agree if those back wages were used to deport them back to the country they immigrated illegally from.

I heard about this from Rush today!

Read the article, please. Small Business isn't feeling anything from this law, as the 8% rule only applies to large businesses whose employment reaches over a certain threshold.
Any cursory search about this brings up several union sites, including the teamsters, that were pushing hard for this law, specifically because of Walmart. It does not affect Northrop-Grumman because they already spend that portion.

Also, you might want to read the article more closely yourself:

"But as debate raged in the Senate yesterday, it was clear that the giant retailer, which has 15,000 workers in Maryland, was the only company that would be affected."

And I find it interesting that you use this quote to support a case that the law was not targeted to Walmart:

"DeMarco said the bill did not aim solely at Wal-Mart. Johns Hopkins University, Giant Food and defense contractor Northop Grumman Corp. have enough employees to fall under the bill's requirements."

But ignore the VERY NEXT SENTENCE!:

"But all meet the 8 percent threshold for for-profit employers or the 6 percent mandated for nonprofits. "


As to small business not feeling anything from the law, that's not the point. The government should not have the right to tell anyone, from individual to partnership to small business to corporation, how their money must be spent.

bump

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Of course, they wouldn't require publicly funded medicaid or food stamps it they were UNEMPLOYED! *sarcasm intended*

Logic, folks, logic.
Yeah, God Bless Wal-Mart for creating jobs and saving the poor. First of all walmart superstores destroy dozens of businesses whereever they go, often locally owned businesses. Second, their use of illegal union busting and starvation wages and benefits forces down working conditions in nearby businesses in order to compete with walmart.

Its brilliant, Walmarts both contribute to poverty, and then target the poor both seeking to attract them as customers and also as miserable wage slaves.

Hmm. Let's see - pay back wages to someone who was working ILLEGALLY in the first place? Makes a lot of sense to me. *sarcasm* I might agree if those back wages were used to deport them back to the country they immigrated illegally from.

They would be deported one way or another. However, we have defined a minimum wage because we have stated that basic human rights dictate a need for it. Why should any human being hired be denied this right?

Not to mention the fact that being required to pay it would decrease the chances of companies hiring illegals, as it would cease to save them any money.

Yeah, God Bless Wal-Mart for creating jobs and saving the poor. First of all walmart superstores destroy dozens of businesses whereever they go, often locally owned businesses. Second, their use of illegal union busting and starvation wages and benefits forces down working conditions in nearby businesses in order to compete with walmart.

Its brilliant, Walmarts both contribute to poverty, and then target the poor both seeking to attract them as customers and also as miserable wage slaves.

As I have pointed out numerous times before, most of those locally owned businesses are run by utter shit-heads who bilk the desperate, most often the old and disabled. I find it funny that after years of these douches manipulating local politics to their own advantage they are the first to cry foul when it happens to them.

Haha, there's a video that you get to watch when you become a Wal-Mart employee that equates labour unions with the Mafia. It's great, it shows some guy in a black hat and trenchcoat coming up to a new hire and saying in a most secretive voice "Wanna join a union?" If I had to watch that, I would have been fired for laughing my ass off in the middle of training.

Yes, no unions at Wal-Mart does mean better prices for the consumer. But it also means that the managment can dick the employees around seven ways from Sunday and they can't do anything about it. I hope this goes through and lays a big fat steaming turd on Wal-Mart's pile of ill-gotten booty.

All American store, my ass.
I had an interview at Wal-Mart back in highschool. They had this massive personality and ehtics test. I think they wanted to make sure that you wouldn't get traied and get job experience and then quit for a better place or like steal from them or something stupid like that. It was the longest job interview I had because I spent more than half an hour on a test.

Yeah, God Bless Wal-Mart for creating jobs and saving the poor. First of all walmart superstores destroy dozens of businesses whereever they go, often locally owned businesses. Second, their use of illegal union busting and starvation wages and benefits forces down working conditions in nearby businesses in order to compete with walmart.

Its brilliant, Walmarts both contribute to poverty, and then target the poor both seeking to attract them as customers and also as miserable wage slaves.
The locally-owned businesses are often bilking the locals because they are the only game in town - my mother and sister both live in a small town of 500, and pay 20 to 30% more at the local grocery than they would going to a larger grocery store closer to Houston. They instead drive almost 45 minutes to Walmart or Sam's because the prices and selection are so much better.

Walmart employs low-skill workers such as cashiers, janitors, greeters, etc, that otherwise would not be employed at any of the local businesses.

Our country works on free enterprise and capitalism. Those that innovate, treat their customers right, and charge a fair price have a more than even chance to succeed, as Walmart has.

I once went to a Wal-Mart store. I didn't buy anything. I went to gawk. I wanted to see those rolledback prices. I wanted to see what people were buying. I wanted to see who was shopping there.

I wanted to see how cheap a price Wal-Mart put on its' area of effect. Neighbourhood: semi-industrial park adjacent to major arterial roads and retail outlet malls, with dense housing in all directions beyond. The malls are now all half-boarded up and empty. The neighbourhood has become decidedly shabby, its' residents dreary. The industrial park is also languishing, as companies relocate due to higher incidence of theft, burglary, vandalism, etc.

It's like dropping a poverty bomb on an area. It's incredible. So, I choose instead to make my purchases at local shops and smile while doing so, even if I am paying more. I am paying more because I'l be damned if I'll contribute to this sick-o organization.

They would be deported one way or another. However, we have defined a minimum wage because we have stated that basic human rights dictate a need for it. Why should any human being hired be denied this right?

Not to mention the fact that being required to pay it would decrease the chances of companies hiring illegals, as it would cease to save them any money.

Last I checked, minimum wage was not a basic human right. Food, water, clothing, and shelter, but not minimum wage.

The higher the minimum wage, the fewer employees a company can afford to hire. I'd rather be employed with a lower minimum wage than unemployed with no wages.

As to why any human being hired should be denied this "right", when you commit illegal acts, you lose those rights. That's why we are allowed to lock up criminals - they committed an illegal act, and lost their rights of freedom.

As to why any human being hired should be denied this "right", when you commit illegal acts, you lose those rights. That's why we are allowed to lock up criminals - they committed an illegal act, and lost their rights of freedom.

Fine, but you cannot deny that it would make companies think twice if they actually had no monetary reason to hire illegals.

I once went to a Wal-Mart store. I didn't buy anything. I went to gawk. I wanted to see those rolledback prices. I wanted to see what people were buying. I wanted to see who was shopping there.

I wanted to see how cheap a price Wal-Mart put on its' area of effect. Neighbourhood: semi-industrial park adjacent to major arterial roads and retail outlet malls, with dense housing in all directions beyond. The malls are now all half-boarded up and empty. The neighbourhood has become decidedly shabby, its' residents dreary. The industrial park is also languishing, as companies relocate due to higher incidence of theft, burglary, vandalism, etc.

It's like dropping a poverty bomb on an area. It's incredible. So, I choose instead to make my purchases at local shops and smile while doing so, even if I am paying more. I am paying more because I'l be damned if I'll contribute to this sick-o organization.
A choice that you are more than entitled to make. However, most folks seem to choose to shop at Walmart.

It amazes me that many who are so concerned about the poor can do so much to hurt the poor. Most illegals shop at Walmart - I have witnessed this personally. Why? Because they have the best prices and product selection in a single place. Get rid of Walmart - the poor have to pay higher prices, and get less to feed their children with, not to mention the tax revenue lost to the city/county/state that might have gone into programs to help feed the poor.

Honestly, if people who were down and out would stop spending so much money on entertainments and such...

Yes, staple foods and such are boring as hell.

But they cost less. They're often healthier.

And paying all that money for TV (electric bills), Cable, Internet... I enjoy having entertainment too, don't get me wrong... but if I'm so broke that I have to go to Wal-Mart... I'm getting a library card, a desk lamp, and, if life get's REALLY boring, some lube, and saving a good fifty dollars a month in doing so, easy.

What I find most intriguing about this is that it seems like a step towards universal healthcare, but taken at a state level. What do you kids think about that???

Fine, but you cannot deny that it would make companies think twice if they actually had no monetary reason to hire illegals.
True. Technically, they have no reason now. But of course immigration laws forbidding the hiring of illegals are rarely, if ever, enforced as they should be, unless you're Walmart.

I had an interview at Wal-Mart back in highschool. They had this massive personality and ehtics test. I think they wanted to make sure that you wouldn't get traied and get job experience and then quit for a better place or like steal from them or something stupid like that. It was the longest job interview I had because I spent more than half an hour on a test.
It's not just Wal-Mart - it's all big box retailers. Nothing like contributing to the decimation of society by providing an outlet for mass quantities of sweat-shop produced sub-standard quality wares to be sold on the blood of under-paid, poorly educated employee's. These stores, are slowly creeping into fibre's of the worlds tapestry like moth's - destroying exactly that what gives them life. I rue the day that the smallest of small shops is closed by the immoral giants within the retail industry - the world only has so much more soul to lose before it's all gone.

What I'd like to see is steps taken towards universal health care be forced on companys via boycott.

Ah! I also wanted to note on the issue of Wal Mart itself a little anecdote; my step-father is a hardcore Republican and a values capitalist and free market principles. As you can imagine, he and I don't agree on politics. ;)

But when a Wal-Mart moved into an area of the county that was the economic and cultural center of our area, we saw the usual effect; small businesses closing down and a subsequent loss of culture in the area. And guess what? He was one of the people to step up and protest against Wal-Mart at a town meeting. He actively campaigns against Wal-Mart whenever he has the chance.

It's interesting, I think.

It's not just Wal-Mart - it's all big box retailers. Nothing like contributing to the decimation of society by providing an outlet for mass quantities of sweat-shop produced sub-standard quality wares to be sold on the blood of under-paid, poorly educated employee's. These stores, are slowly creeping into fibre's of the worlds tapestry like moth's - destroying exactly that what gives them life. I rue the day that the smallest of small shops is closed by the immoral giants within the retail industry - the world only has so much more soul to lose before it's all gone.

Unfortunately, I think part of this is actually due to the sellers.

There was this really interesting, if a bit rough around the edges store here in Fresno, called "Oh Grow Up!" Half of it was anime and statues (He had a life-sized foam Alien from Aliens. It was so fricking cool.) the other half was like old toys and such, he-man, et cetera.

But the guy wasn't very active in selling. He just seemed to assume people would happen to show up and buy stuff. Mind you, some of his stuff was GREAT. But its a niche product, you need to actively explain the virtues of things to people. Salesmanship is useful in a niche product.

Now, sadly, the guy had to close shop. But he opened again.

In a fricking boring as hell conservative area where a dozen card shops and comic shops had already failed. Even took the same spot as they had all used.

And do you know what the majority of the inventory he put up was, instead of all the awesome anime and old toys and statues?

...Playboy action figures.

Goddamned Playboy Playmate Action Figures.

They're like those baseball player figures, but with boobs.

In a bible-thumper town.

A BORING bible-thumper town.

Where people could SEE you.

I doubt he's still open, suffice to say.

And what's really sad.

I wanted to get some comic books through him. Amerimanga stuff. I walked by there EVERY WEEKDAY, to get to class, when I was living there.

He would have had guaranteed income.

But. He didn't do comic books.

!*(&@

A choice that you are more than entitled to make. However, most folks seem to choose to shop at Walmart.

- Most folks, or maybe - most of the folks you know, are either unethical self-satisfied consumerites, willfully-blinkered people unwilling to admit their complicity in the overall degradation of one's reasonable expectation of attaining happiness in this life, or the truly oblivious.

Now, I don't think there's nearly as many truly oblivious people out there as would constitute the vast majority of Wal-Mart shoppers. So I'd have to say it's primarily the first two groups I mentioned. Those who simply don't care, no matter what awful things they hear, and those who can't bring themselves not to shop there, in spite of what they know Wal-Mart does to communities.

Wonderful clientele.

- Most folks, or maybe - most of the folks you know, are either unethical self-satisfied consumerites, willfully-blinkered people unwilling to admit their complicity in the overall degradation of one's reasonable expectation of attaining happiness in this life, or the truly oblivious.

Now, I don't think there's nearly as many truly oblivious people out there as would constitute the vast majority of Wal-Mart shoppers. So I'd have to say it's primarily the first two groups I mentioned. Those who simply don't care, no matter what awful things they hear, and those who can't bring themselves not to shop there, in spite of what they know Wal-Mart does to communities.

Wonderful clientele.
Yes, anyone who acts in a way that differs from how you think they should act must have something wrong with them. It couldn't possibly be that they weighed the pros and cons and decided for themselves in a thoughtful, logical process.

As I said, you are entitled to choose to not shop at Walmart, but the rest of the folks are equally entitled to shop there. And just because they do does not mean that they are morally bankrupt or stupid (my paraphrase). You can speak for your own motives - anything else is pure speculation or mind-reading.

Ah! I also wanted to note on the issue of Wal Mart itself a little anecdote; my step-father is a hardcore Republican and a values capitalist and free market principles. As you can imagine, he and I don't agree on politics. ;)

But when a Wal-Mart moved into an area of the county that was the economic and cultural center of our area, we saw the usual effect; small businesses closing down and a subsequent loss of culture in the area. And guess what? He was one of the people to step up and protest against Wal-Mart at a town meeting. He actively campaigns against Wal-Mart whenever he has the chance.

It's interesting, I think.
I've seen the same all too often and, like your father, it's usually the ones who advocate the most for a big box stores acception, that are the first to point out the pitfalls of its existence. For the most part, the only real gain is convenience for consumers. People talk about job creation, but in the end it really has an adverse effect, by creating more low paying jobs that require less education, and providing services and goods (usually of a poorer quality) that replace smaller businesses in an area, and thus the employees of a business - the community is at a job loss. At least, that is, if you value middle class employment higher than employment that barely manages to clear a wage suitable for maintaing a decent standard of living.

But hey, apparently its worth that for Joe consumer to be able to buy a TV, a few DVD's, a new dresser, some clothes for the kids (who are sucking back cheeseburgers from the grease trap Rotten Ronnies inside), some plants for the living room, and a new lamp... all while getting his oil changed... and from one location!!!! Wow! Convenient!

When did people get this damned lazy.

- Most folks, or maybe - most of the folks you know,
Nope, not just most of the folks I know. I said most folks because, according to the article I cited at the beginning of this thread, Walmart's profits continue to rise. I don't believe this would happen if less people were shopping there?

I don't shop at those type of stores for the same reasons. Or maybe it's because they have nothing I want.

Honestly, if people who were down and out would stop spending so much money on entertainments and such...

Yes, staple foods and such are boring as hell.

But they cost less. They're often healthier.

And paying all that money for TV (electric bills), Cable, Internet... I enjoy having entertainment too, don't get me wrong... but if I'm so broke that I have to go to Wal-Mart... I'm getting a library card, a desk lamp, and, if life get's REALLY boring, some lube, and saving a good fifty dollars a month in doing so, easy.
Staple foods can be obtained from Walmart Neighborhood Markets here in Houston. Or at the Super Walmarts.

Cmon people, haven't any of you seen the South Park episode on this? If you did you should know that Wal-Mart has turned into a semi-sentient being that devours the money of it's customers while destroying small towns. However, responsibility falls solely on the shoulders of the customers for their own death-spiral.

WalMart eats butt. They should change their name to "Made in China."
I'm all for states' rights.
If Maryland wants to make them do anything, I'm all for it.

I'm starting to think that companies like Wal*Mart, due to their excessive power, should not be regarded as mere companies, but as other states.

The practical upshots of this shouldn't take too long to realize - there's a lot of fun things that can be done between nations that people think shouldn't be done to corporations simply because they have a different name (Yes, I'm well aware of the differences between Wal*Mart and China or some other company and some other country - it's just that they're getting to matter less and less.).

I once went to a Wal-Mart store. I didn't buy anything. I went to gawk. I wanted to see those rolledback prices. I wanted to see what people were buying. I wanted to see who was shopping there.

I wanted to see how cheap a price Wal-Mart put on its' area of effect. Neighbourhood: semi-industrial park adjacent to major arterial roads and retail outlet malls, with dense housing in all directions beyond. The malls are now all half-boarded up and empty. The neighbourhood has become decidedly shabby, its' residents dreary. The industrial park is also languishing, as companies relocate due to higher incidence of theft, burglary, vandalism, etc.

It's like dropping a poverty bomb on an area. It's incredible. So, I choose instead to make my purchases at local shops and smile while doing so, even if I am paying more. I am paying more because I'l be damned if I'll contribute to this sick-o organization.
I don't think it has the same effect in a suburb or a city. I know very few people who actually shop at wal-mart for significant amounts of things. Like, I know peopel who might buy an outfit there...

but really, if I want a cheap store, I'll go to Zellers. I prefer quality, however and thus avoid wal-mart with its cheap, crappy merchandise.

Staple foods can be obtained from Walmart Neighborhood Markets here in Houston. Or at the Super Walmarts.
They can also be obtained at a real grocery store.

Of course, they wouldn't require publicly funded medicaid or food stamps it they were UNEMPLOYED! *sarcasm intended*

Logic, folks, logic.
How many small businesses did WalMart put out of business when they opened their doors? This thought that they are magically creating jobs is not a logical argument on your part?

This is why I love being a Merlinder (Marylander) from Bawlmer (Baltimore).

Keep the L out of Dundak (Dundalk)... Sorry... Jokes, only a Baltimoron could appreciate... :rolleyes:

That's the price Walmart has to pay to build another store. I think in 3 years or so, Walmart has proposed a Walmart in 3 different cities of Wisconsin, all which were denied. If a national chain wants to make yet even more money by creating another franchise, they can give the city in question their way for once. The city is keeping the employers interests priority. That's if they want to buiild their store, of course.

How many small businesses did WalMart put out of business when they opened their doors? This thought that they are magically creating jobs is not a logical argument on your part?
Those business were put out of business by the consumers who decided they prefered Wal-Mart's low prices. Put the blame where it belongs: the community.

Those business were put out of business by the consumers who decided they prefered Wal-Mart's low prices. Put the blame where it belongs: the community.

Does it occur to anyone here that people shop at WalMart because they are short of cash? The US currently has the highest debt load per capita in the world, and the highest in it's history...

In comes WalMart with it's unfair labour practices and sweat shop produced inferior goods, so all the cash strapped people in the community see a chance to get out from under their mountain of debt. Sure there will always be a subset of people who don't give a damn about screwing thier neighbours but my feeling is that most people are driven to it - mostly because of the inferior goods.

Once WalMart gets its hooks into a community poverty increases forcing more people to shop there in a self reinforcing cycle.

What do yall think?

A good way to keep big business from coming into the state and keep other businesses from expanding within the state. Great if you want to stagnate the economic growth of the state. :(

...since so many of their workers are poor they ...there would be unions and decent conditions for workers which would make this kind of legislation unnecessary.


If working conditions and benefits at Wal Mart are so bad, why don't the workers organize and unionize? Evidently, they don't feel things are that bad.

[QUOTE=Dempublicents1 What we ought to do is force companies that are caught not only to pay huge fines, but also to pay back wages to every illegal up to the point that a legal worker would have received, including pay increases over time.[/QUOTE]

And make them pay to send the illegals back to wherever they came from. :D

It's not just Wal-Mart - it's all big box retailers. Nothing like contributing to the decimation of society by providing an outlet for mass quantities of sweat-shop produced sub-standard quality wares to be sold on the blood of under-paid, poorly educated employee's. These stores, are slowly creeping into fibre's of the worlds tapestry like moth's - destroying exactly that what gives them life. I rue the day that the smallest of small shops is closed by the immoral giants within the retail industry - the world only has so much more soul to lose before it's all gone.

And the alternative is?????????

Those business were put out of business by the consumers who decided they prefered Wal-Mart's low prices. Put the blame where it belongs: the community.
I wasn't trying to blame anyone. My comment was in response to Selgin's. If you back up, you might be able to understand my comment?

If working conditions and benefits at Wal Mart are so bad, why don't the workers organize and unionize? Evidently, they don't feel things are that bad.
They get fired. My mother does that type of legal work, and she was talking about how difficult it is to pin them down. Wal Mart sets a paper trail from the moment you're hired, in case they have to fire you for it, they can blame you. Or something to that effect, I don't listen to her that carefully.

They get fired. My mother does that type of legal work, and she was talking about how difficult it is to pin them down. Wal Mart sets a paper trail from the moment you're hired, in case they have to fire you for it, they can blame you. Or something to that effect, I don't listen to her that carefully.

It is illegal for a company to fire you for Union activities. They can however make your life hell. I know from experience. By the way the employees voted in the union. I left for a much better job and a 10% pay raise. :)

Well my town has officially hit a true suburbia with the opening of a Wal-mart AND Sam's Club right next to each other. THe township decided to set up this "town square" market in this old industrial park. They put like an incredible amount of small stores there, including some large retail stores, many small businesses, and your Meglomaniacal Wal-Mart.
Now that this has happened, I will sit back and wait for the "wal mart effect" to happen (as most of you have indicated what happens when a wal mart opens). The town was already going down hill because of over development, so this will only accelerate things even more.
And as for questions why Wal-Mart employees don't unionize, ask the same question about the fast food industry with MacDonald's in particular. Just by reading Fast Food Nation, i became aware of the dirty tricks the industry plays.

http://www.laborrights.org/press/walmart_040805.htm

yes, the source would seem biased, but it is a Wall Street Journal article, so it balences out.

It is illegal for a company to fire you for Union activities. They can however make your life hell. I know from experience. By the way the employees voted in the union. I left for a much better job and a 10% pay raise. :)
Wal Mart does not fear "illegal" besides, they fire you for something else. Not necessarialy for unions. At least, not in name.

Well my town has officially hit a true suburbia with the opening of a Wal-mart AND Sam's Club right next to each other. THe township decided to set up this "town square" market in this old industrial park. They put like an incredible amount of small stores there, including some large retail stores, many small businesses, and your Meglomaniacal Wal-Mart.
Now that this has happened, I will sit back and wait for the "wal mart effect" to happen (as most of you have indicated what happens when a wal mart opens). The town was already going down hill because of over development, so this will only accelerate things even more.
And as for questions why Wal-Mart employees don't unionize, ask the same question about the fast food industry with MacDonald's in particular. Just by reading Fast Food Nation, i became aware of the dirty tricks the industry plays.

http://www.laborrights.org/press/walmart_040805.htm

yes, the source would seem biased, but it is a Wall Street Journal article, so it balences out.
You do know Wal-Mart and Sams Club are owned by the same company right? Anyway I think they always open in the same shopping center or something, at least thats the way it was in my old town. Luckily in my new town, New York City, the unions and some of the local politicians blocked Wal-Mart's latest efforts to build a super center in Queens.

As far as fast food goes it is another bleak industry for workers. I think the problem is that there is just too high a turnover rate to unionize-- It is impossible to build any organizing momentum when people only work there for a few weeks or months before quitting. I think it is kind of a catch 22. The job sucks so bad nobody sticks around long enough to try to make things better, so they stay shitty forever.

You do know Wal-Mart and Sams Club are owned by the same company right? Anyway I think they always open in the same shopping center or something, at least thats the way it was in my old town. Luckily in my new town, New York City, the unions and some of the local politicians blocked Wal-Mart's latest efforts to build a super center in Queens.

As far as fast food goes it is another bleak industry for workers. I think the problem is that there is just too high a turnover rate to unionize-- It is impossible to build any organizing momentum when people only work there for a few weeks or months before quitting. I think it is kind of a catch 22. The job sucks so bad nobody sticks around long enough to try to make things better, so they stay shitty forever.

That is, in fact thier business model. Keep the employees as tired and disorganised as possible, only promote the ones that have proven themselves indoctrinated with corporate ideals, punish those that step out of line and if all else fails close down the location!!!

That's happened twice in Quebec, once with one of the most profitable North American McDicks franchises and lately with a WalMart located in Quebec. Both were shut down by management once the locations were unionised.

That is, in fact thier business model. Keep the employees as tired and disorganised as possible, only promote the ones that have proven themselves indoctrinated with corporate ideals, punish those that step out of line and if all else fails close down the location!!!

That's happened twice in Quebec, once with one of the most profitable North American McDicks franchises and lately with a WalMart located in Quebec. Both were shut down by management once the locations were unionised.
Did that unionized Wal-Mart get shut down? I remember them hearing they were talking about shutting it down, but I never heard what happened. Thats about as evil as it gets, shutting down your stores rather than have to face the horror paying something which your employees can actually live off of.

We subsidize Wal-Marts corporate irresponsiblity, since so many of their workers are poor they often require publicly funded medicaid and food stamps and other such benefits.


And you know this how?

As far as fast food goes it is another bleak industry for workers. I think the problem is that there is just too high a turnover rate to unionize-- It is impossible to build any organizing momentum when people only work there for a few weeks or months before quitting. I think it is kind of a catch 22. The job sucks so bad nobody sticks around long enough to try to make things better, so they stay shitty forever.

Also, many of the FF places use primarily high school kids and others who are not full time employees. I'm not so sure they can be union members or that unions would be interested in organizing them especially if they are a franchise operation. A union is probably not going to help 15 or so part time employees organize. There is nothing in it for the union. Something as big as a Wal-Mart, or Sams is different as there are a lot more employees.

Did that unionized Wal-Mart get shut down? I remember them hearing they were talking about shutting it down, but I never heard what happened. Thats about as evil as it gets, shutting down your stores rather than have to face the horror paying something which your employees can actually live off of.

Just because you unionize doesn't guarantee things will get better. At the company, I used to work for, negotiations went on for about a year and a half, and the employees didn't get a significant raise or increases in the benefit package. Are they better off now than before? In some respects, they probably are but in other ways no, they are not much improved. However, that place definitely needed the union. Management was constantly screwing over the employees, now it is much less frequent. Also, one of the former "bosses" was given "another job" and finally "retired” because so many grievances were filed against him.

Walmart sucks, but this legislation will likely cause job losses in Maryland. I don't agree with the law, but I also think that Walmart should be forced to obey labour and minimum wage laws.

Just because you unionize doesn't guarantee things will get better. At the company, I used to work for, negotiations went on for about a year and a half, and the employees didn't get a significant raise or increases in the benefit package. Are they better off now than before? In some respects, they probably are but in other ways no, they are not much improved. However, that place definitely needed the union. Management was constantly screwing over the employees, now it is much less frequent. Also, one of the former "bosses" was given "another job" and finally "retired” because so many grievances were filed against him.
I dunno, I've had some non-union jobs where I was sexually harassed knowing full well that if I reported it, I would be fired. I've also had jobs where I didn't get the breaks and lunchtime off that I am legally entitled to.

If I don't take a lunchbreak at the job I'm in now, the company gets in shit with the union. If I never get a break and report it, management gets in shit with the union.

And seniority isn't bad, really.

Those business were put out of business by the consumers who decided they prefered Wal-Mart's low prices. Put the blame where it belongs: the community.

Alright, I simply can't stop myself.

Talondar, I'm gonna buy you a drink. A nice, great, big drink. Whatever you want.

Walmart sucks, but this legislation will likely cause job losses in Maryland. I don't agree with the law, but I also think that Walmart should be forced to obey labour and minimum wage laws.

Since Bethlem steel and the GMC closed in Batlimore (They could make a larger profit overseas), the soup kitchens in the Baltimore area has increased from 50 to 800. Most of the people in the soup kitchens have jobs. You will often see people with briefcases or hard hats, both black and white. The have jobs, but their jobs don't pay them enough. They used to be able to get a job at Bethlem steel that would pay them well, but since it closed, most of the jobs offered for those without a college degree are places like McDonalds and Wal-Mart. The jobs there pay minimum wage, and though its a great job for a teenager, it doesnt make enough to support a family. The soup kitchens are crowded by the end of the month. Bethlem Steel and GMC were extremely unpatriotic. They permanately left a hole in the MD economy. This is why I don't particularly like capitalism... Communism/Socialism/Marxism suck too (But I won't get into that right now), before I'm labeled.

Though I think to an extent, labor unions are to blame. Though they made working conditions better, they seem, in my opinion, in recent times taken things to far causing outsourcing. It's terrible when you can buy steel from Japan cheaper, than from the steel mill down the street.

The other contributing factor to the rise in Soup Kitchens apparently is the"liberation" of the people in labor unions.

[QUOTE=Soviet Narco State]You do know Wal-Mart and Sams Club are owned by the same company right? /QUOTE]

Yes i do know, i just found it odd how they seemingly make them compete against each other. Yes, Sam's Club is a bulk store, but i would tend to think that having a supermarket and a bulkstore next to each other seems a bit redundant. I mean, after all they sell the same goods, but only differ in size and quantity.
BTW- i think i remember a starting effect of how WalMart affects the community. Last time i was home, i saw a lot, and i do mean A LOT, of people trying to enter through the exit doors. And the funny thing is, they kept trying to get the doors to open. Good ol' human logic.

[QUOTE=Soviet Narco State]You do know Wal-Mart and Sams Club are owned by the same company right? /QUOTE]

Yes i do know, i just found it odd how they seemingly make them compete against each other. Yes, Sam's Club is a bulk store, but i would tend to think that having a supermarket and a bulkstore next to each other seems a bit redundant. I mean, after all they sell the same goods, but only differ in size and quantity.
BTW- i think i remember a starting effect of how WalMart affects the community. Last time i was home, i saw a lot, and i do mean A LOT, of people trying to enter through the exit doors. And the funny thing is, they kept trying to get the doors to open. Good ol' human logic.
I don't really understand the logic of building Sams Clubs next to the WalMarts either, I guess they figure they will crowd out other block stores from moving in and competing with them or something. Supposedly Costco is owning Sam's Clubs when it come to huge bulk quanity sales. (Although not once in my live have I ever seen a Costco store, where the hell are they the south or something?)

It is immoral to try and target a company to make it go bankrupt. I don't like Wal-Mart myself, but I am not the reason for their success. They are. If the state doesn't like it, then they definatly have a self-confidence issue.

I don't like Wal-mart. They try to brain wash you with those smilely things... they speak to you... tell you things, but one day you must cast aside the smiley faced stickers and turn away from the evil one lest you fall into the abyss of eternal damnation where there is much wailing and grinding of teeth!

In all seriousness... it's not as clean as Target... Any of you read the comic "Boondocks". Some scathing wal-mart related satire there

Walmart has never put a store out of business. Ever. The people who shop there are the ones put companies out of business. I doubt a carriage maker could compete with an automobile manufacturer in this day and age, should we punish the automobile manufacturer until he can no longer afford to operate, so the carriage maker gets his chance?

Did that unionized Wal-Mart get shut down? I remember them hearing they were talking about shutting it down, but I never heard what happened. Thats about as evil as it gets, shutting down your stores rather than have to face the horror paying something which your employees can actually live off of.

Yup! The first location to be certified a union shop (I think it was Jonquire or spelling to that effect) was shut down by WalMart - they claimed the location wasn't profitable, though they'd been there for four years and never made a peep before. The second Mega-Low-Mart hasn't been certified yet, and it's right across the river from Montreal. I'm sure the certification will result in a similar outcome though I admit the possibility of surprise...

I try to avoid the use of the word 'evil' but I'm at a loss to find a better word.

Though I think to an extent, labor unions are to blame. Though they made working conditions better, they seem, in my opinion, in recent times taken things to far causing outsourcing. It's terrible when you can buy steel from Japan cheaper, than from the steel mill down the street.

The other contributing factor to the rise in Soup Kitchens apparently is the"liberation" of the people in labor unions.

Ask yourself something. Why are those jobs, after so many decades of not being shipped overseas now being outsourced?

Could it be that various governments have signed trade agreements without guarunteeing fair labour practices and environmental policies in trade partner countries?

It wasn't so much that the union members were overpayed or 'taking things too far' but more an act of legislation by the government - after extensive lobbying efforts - that devalued the jobs so much that outsourcing became profitable.

Ask yourself something. Why are those jobs, after so many decades of not being shipped overseas now being outsourced?

Could it be that various governments have signed trade agreements without guarunteeing fair labour practices and environmental policies in trade partner countries?

It wasn't so much that the union members were overpayed or 'taking things too far' but more an act of legislation by the government - after extensive lobbying efforts - that devalued the jobs so much that outsourcing became profitable.
Actually, they are overpaid. Think about the value of the work that people who work at Walmart do. It requires no skill whatsoever to be a greeter. And yet that greeter makes at least minimum wage. I do not think that greeting people is worth 6 dollars an hour. And yet it is, by law. However, in foreign countries you can pay people based on the value of their work, not based on what people tell you.

[QUOTE=Rousseauia]
I don't really understand the logic of building Sams Clubs next to the WalMarts either, I guess they figure they will crowd out other block stores from moving in and competing with them or something. Supposedly Costco is owning Sam's Clubs when it come to huge bulk quanity sales. (Although not once in my live have I ever seen a Costco store, where the hell are they the south or something?)

Yeah, that is a weird business model. Maybe there are labour laws involved if you have a certain number of people working at one location, and this is a way to dodge them? There's gotta be some reason.

[QUOTE=Soviet Narco State]

Yeah, that is a weird business model. Maybe there are labour laws involved if you have a certain number of people working at one location, and this is a way to dodge them? There's gotta be some reason.
Why are there so many gas stations on the exits to interstates? Maybe cause that's where the business. Get off any exit of 81, and you'll find a Citgo next to a Shell next to a Sheetz. They all sell gas, but they're literally next to each other. Because that's where the business is.

Ask yourself something. Why are those jobs, after so many decades of not being shipped overseas now being outsourced?

Could it be that various governments have signed trade agreements without guarunteeing fair labour practices and environmental policies in trade partner countries?

It wasn't so much that the union members were overpayed or 'taking things too far' but more an act of legislation by the government - after extensive lobbying efforts - that devalued the jobs so much that outsourcing became profitable.

Hmmm... I was kinda implying your some of your second paragraph. Though can you elaborate on our goverment's legislation?

I just reread my post. Where I said, The other contributing factor to the rise in Soup Kitchens apparently is the"liberation" of the people in labor unions."

I meant to say mental institions. I was just thinking about labor unions, so you know.

My ADD has been driving me nuts today [FOCUS!!!!] :D

Yup! The first location to be certified a union shop (I think it was Jonquire or spelling to that effect) was shut down by WalMart - they claimed the location wasn't profitable, though they'd been there for four years and never made a peep before. The second Mega-Low-Mart hasn't been certified yet, and it's right across the river from Montreal. I'm sure the certification will result in a similar outcome though I admit the possibility of surprise...

I try to avoid the use of the word 'evil' but I'm at a loss to find a better word.
Damn, the Wal-Mart management are creeps! Where the hell is a bomb chucking anarcho terrorist assassin when you need one?

Damn, the Wal-Mart management are creeps! Where the hell is a bomb chucking anarcho terrorist assassin when you need one?
Last I heard he was forumbanned.