NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, we have managed to avoid that ugly product of King Louis' France called the metric system for the last 205 years. Truly a last ditch effort to calm the masses, this measurement system seems to only exist because the revolutionaries couldn't count higher than the number of fingers on both hands. They demanded a "simpler" system of measurements and got this mess, instead.

There are a couple good points to adopting this mess of greek prefixes.
--Gas will seem cheaper at 66 cents a liter.
--Being 22 kilos overweight does not sound as bad as 50 lbs.
--Half a liter is more than a pint, which means, MORE BEER FOR EVERYBODY!

On the other hand, the kilogram is shrinking. I'm not sure what happens when it disappears, but it can only be bad. Maybe catastrophic.

Here's to another year just like the past 205. No Metric, No Way!

Happy birthday metric system, and thank goodness someone was finally able to measure the circumfrance of the Earth!

Yes, we have managed to avoid that ugly product of King Louis' France called the metric system for the last 205 years. Truly a last ditch effort to calm the masses, this measurement system seems to only exist because the revolutionaries couldn't count higher than the number of fingers on both hands. They demanded a "simpler" system of measurements and got this mess, instead.

The fact that A.) you know how long its been around, and B.) that you posted this shows that it is a threat (If it wasnt you wouldnt know and/or care).

I love metric, as a scientist it makes everything so much easier. I am now just pushing for metric time. It sucks when someone says something is 423 minutes and 24 seconds long, how many hours etc??
would make life so much easier

Hurrah for the metric system.

Happy birthday metric system, and thank goodness someone was finally able to measure the circumfrance of the Earth!

is that in honor of the country that (I think) invented or first made the metric system popular?

I love metric, as a scientist it makes everything so much easier. I am now just pushing for metric time. It sucks when someone says something is 423 minutes and 24 seconds long, how many hours etc??
would make life so much easier[/QUOTE]

That sounds interesting... How would it work? What would the base value be?

I love metric, as a scientist it makes everything so much easier. I am now just pushing for metric time. It sucks when someone says something is 423 minutes and 24 seconds long, how many hours etc??
would make life so much easier

That sounds interesting... How would it work? What would the base value be?[/QUOTE]

There are several different systems that would fit into both the day and the year, most using the second as the base and then 100 seconds per minute etc. Google it, is very interesting reading

I love metric, as a scientist it makes everything so much easier. I am now just pushing for metric time. It sucks when someone says something is 423 minutes and 24 seconds long, how many hours etc??
would make life so much easier

That sounds interesting... How would it work? What would the base value be?[/QUOTE]

I assume that the length of a day and a year would remain the same at least. Unless we want to completely disregard the earth movements when it comes to time.

Yay metric system.

Boo imperial system. :p

That sounds interesting... How would it work? What would the base value be?

There are several different systems that would fit into both the day and the year, most using the second as the base and then 100 seconds per minute etc. Google it, is very interesting reading
Without reading any background, it seems like there would be leap second problems galore. I'll Google it now.

And for all the scientists that say metric is the true way, it isn't. American manufacturing has found that a decimal inch is a much more practical way to measure. It turns out that the smallest distance of separation visible to the unaided eye is 0.01 inches, or 0.26 mm. What this means is that being accurate to within a hundredth of an inch is better than being within a millimeter. Four times better! Bite me Metric Boys!

I assume that the length of a day and a year would remain the same at least. Unless we want to completely disregard the earth movements when it comes to time.

We have rockets, we could always change the earths distance from the sun (changing the years length)

*hugs metric system*
happy birthday champ

The metric system is straightforward & easy for everyone to understand (even Americans :p ). Go metric!

Ain't the US one of the few countries that still use the "imperial" system? It's so outdated and oldfashioned... I thought the US are always on the forefront of developments in science. It seems at least in this area, they're far behind.

Without reading any background, it seems like there would be leap second problems galore. I'll Google it now.

And for all the scientists that say metric is the true way, it isn't. American manufacturing has found that a decimal inch is a much more practical way to measure. It turns out that the smallest distance of separation visible to the unaided eye is 0.01 inches, or 0.26 mm. What this means is that being accurate to within a hundredth of an inch is better than being within a millimeter. Four times better! Bite me Metric Boys!

No fair, you are comparing 1/100 of your units to 1 of ours, thats like saying "my one manned army eats less than your 100 man army." I would like to see you pick up any variations to within 1/100mm :p
Any way, the majority of the scientific community (Yes, even alot of the american ones) use metric values

Ein Deutscher']Ain't the US one of the few countries that still use the "imperial" system? It's so outdated and oldfashioned... I thought the US are always on the forefront of developments in science. It seems at least in this area, they're far behind.
yeah but then they would stop crashing probes into the side of planets and such :p

Without reading any background, it seems like there would be leap second problems galore. I'll Google it now.

And for all the scientists that say metric is the true way, it isn't. American manufacturing has found that a decimal inch is a much more practical way to measure. It turns out that the smallest distance of separation visible to the unaided eye is 0.01 inches, or 0.26 mm. What this means is that being accurate to within a hundredth of an inch is better than being within a millimeter. Four times better! Bite me Metric Boys!

Thank god for the metric system. You americans have always to be different! I suggest you take a look at Tipler's Physics for Scientists and Engineers, one of the best books in that subject. It's made by an american, but the metric system is all over it.

Yay metric system.

Boo imperial system. :p
http://www.dribbleglass.com/subpages/strange/what-he-said.jpg

--Half a liter is more than a pint, which means, MORE BEER FOR EVERYBODY!


Maybe in America. Over here we have mansize 20floz pints! :D

--Half a liter is more than a pint, which means, MORE BEER FOR EVERYBODY!


What kind of girly pints you got over there? The pint in UK is more than 0,5 liter.

you know the reason that the Beagle 2 probe failed was because one part of the system had metric measurements wheras the other used imperial, because the this beagle shot off into space (or crashed no one is sure) bottom line is it doesnt matter what you use so long as you all use the same, Is support the metric system because its simpler and more widespread.

What kind of girly pints you got over there? The pint in UK is more than 0,5 liter.

Their pints are only 4/5ths the size of ours. It just feels wrong when you order beer in an american bar. You hold the glass in your hand and all you can think is 'is that it??'!

you know the reason that the Beagle 2 probe failed was because one part of the system had metric measurements wheras the other used imperial, because the this beagle shot off into space (or crashed no one is sure) bottom line is it doesnt matter what you use so long as you all use the same, Is support the metric system because its simpler and more widespread.


No no no. That was a Nasa probe a few years back. The name escapes me right now. Bloody funny though! :p

No no no. That was a Nasa probe a few years back. The name escapes me right now. Bloody funny though! :p
indeed :D

--Gas will seem cheaper at 66 cents a liter.



It does for me.

Metric rules!
It took french surveyers like 4 generations to map France for the royals less than 10 years later the royals were gone!

Height should be feet inches and cm's weight in stones that wil lreally confuse people! :p

It does for me.
yeah its already 2 that damn Taxes! :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

What kind of girly pints you got over there? The pint in UK is more than 0,5 liter.
Sorry folks.
Australia have piss ant schooners! :(

yeah its already 2 that damn Taxes! :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

The guy at the servo was amused when I commented about needing 'an arm, a leg, 2 good kidneys and a pint of virgin blood' to fill up your car.

Sorry folks.
Australia have piss ant schooners! :(
lol you actually paid for a schooner? Should have asked for a pint mate

lol you actually paid for a schooner? Should have asked for a pint mate

I agree, you were done.

yeah its already 2 that damn Taxes! :mp5: :mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

altho it may be a little off topic, was the latest tax rise to pay for Auckland roads? I know they were talking about doing that awgile ago but I never heard if they were related

No fair, you are comparing 1/100 of your units to 1 of ours, thats like saying "my one manned army eats less than your 100 man army." I would like to see you pick up any variations to within 1/100mm :p
Any way, the majority of the scientific community (Yes, even alot of the american ones) use metric values

No, read more closely. I'm comparing the "...smallest distance of separation visible to the unaided eye...". Much easier to measure 0.01 inches than 0.26mm.

And I agree about the majority. I've earned a Ph.D. in Physics, but I did it without relying on the metric system. That's just a crutch for folks that can't keep their units straight.

Their pints are only 4/5ths the size of ours. It just feels wrong when you order beer in an american bar. You hold the glass in your hand and all you can think is 'is that it??'!
How sad :(
but it's even worse around here. You order a large beer and in about 50% of pubs and bars you only get 0.4 liters. That's an insult.

Ein Deutscher']Ain't the US one of the few countries that still use the "imperial" system? It's so outdated and oldfashioned... I thought the US are always on the forefront of developments in science. It seems at least in this area, they're far behind.
I think the reason we are in the forefront is the system of customary units. We can keep track of dimensions without needing a measurement system that does it for us.

I think the reason we are in the forefront is the system of customary units. We can keep track of dimensions without needing a measurement system that does it for us.
You misread me. I said, you used to be in the forefront. But in this area, you definitely are not. Instead you cling to an archaic and outdated measurement system, just to be different. Either it's once again incredible American arrogance or ignorance to believe that it can stay like this forever. Eventually, you'll have to adapt to the worldwide use of the metric system.

How sad :(
but it's even worse around here. You order a large beer and in about 50% of pubs and bars you only get 0.4 liters. That's an insult.

I remember being able to order a litre at a time in Germany. Heaven!

Hurray for the metic system. Currently the UK exists is a wierd sort of duel measurement state, with roads measured in miles, but liquid bought in litres, ect. It bothers me because I'm one of the newer generation who has been tought on metic without much touching of the arhaic imperiel system. I suppose it makes, seeing as it will likely disappear in time altogether, but in the mean time it's quite annoying.
Oh, and by the way, I can use imperiel fine when I need to. I preffer metic because I'm intelligent enough to recognize it's superior.

I agree largely with Extradites, but I'll never be able to use metric for height or weight of people. I'm just too used to feet/inches and stones/pounds.

I remember being able to order a litre at a time in Germany. Heaven!
Available in some bars around here too. Not for me though. a) too heavy to lift b) the last 0.5 litres is way too flat
hmmm...maybe I should start working out and drink a little bit faster...and grow an enormous belly.

Ein Deutscher']You misread me. I said, you used to be in the forefront. But in this area, you definitely are not. Instead you cling to an archaic and outdated measurement system, just to be different. Either it's once again incredible American arrogance or ignorance to believe that it can stay like this forever. Eventually, you'll have to adapt to the worldwide use of the metric system.
It's economics, plain and simple. It would cost a fortune to convert.

Besides, I like the idea of ordering beer by the hogshead.

If you go to a backwater pub (or south island pub for that matter) you buy your beer by the jug. All for yourself. Nothing like the site of a bar full of scarfies each with their own 1 litre jug.

If you go to a backwater pub (or south island pub for that matter) you buy your beer by the jug. All for yourself. Nothing like the site of a bar full of scarfies each with their own 1 litre jug.
I think there is a vast and unfortunate difference between the way we drink beer in the U.S. and the way the rest of the English speaking world drinks it. It's hard enough to just find good beer. It's like finding good Chinese food, there might be one good restaurant within 20 blocks. With beer, you need to find that one micro/regional brewery that makes beer that doesn't taste like crap.

So if we go metric, will that improve our beer?

I think the Imperial system is just a way for the yanks and the brits to declare themselves to be 'different' than everyone else. Like your own secret little language...though even between the two of you, you don't manage to agree on all your measurements:). I'd have to say though that that your temperature measurements are the most annoying...40 degrees to the rest of the world is just damn hot!

That being said, I grew up with parents who were schooled in Imperial measurements, and I find that many people of my generation are all mixed up...we use metric for some and imperial for other. For example, my height is in feet and inches...I couldn't tell you what it would be in centimetres. Same with weight...pounds, not kilograms. BUT when I buy food, it's in kilos!!!?? Inches for length? What the? I use centimetres, metres and kilometres. Pints for beer, litres for wine, ounces for hard liquor. Celcius for cooking? NO WAY!

I'm one very confused kitten!

No, read more closely. I'm comparing the "...smallest distance of separation visible to the unaided eye...". Much easier to measure 0.01 inches than 0.26mm.

It's the same. A quarter of a mm (.254 actually), or a hundreth of an inch. Besides, people have different visual acuities and you can always use a magnifying glass, so the argument is pointless. Metric is much, much better in every way.

No no no. That was a Nasa probe a few years back. The name escapes me right now. Bloody funny though! :p

From one of the NASA websites:

Likely Cause Of Orbiter Loss Found
The peer review preliminary findings indicate that one team used English units (e.g., inches, feet and pounds) while the other used metric units for a key spacecraft operation.

http://mars4.jpl.nasa.gov/msp98/news/mco990930.html


I also recall that prior to this they tried an experiment which involved reflecting a laser off a mirror mounted on the Space Shuttle which failed due to one set of distances being calculated in metric units and another being calculated in imperial.

That being said, I grew up with parents who were schooled in Imperial measurements, and I find that many people of my generation are all mixed up...we use metric for some and imperial for other. For example, my height is in feet and inches...I couldn't tell you what it would be in centimetres. Same with weight...pounds, not kilograms. BUT when I buy food, it's in kilos!!!?? Inches for length? What the? I use centimetres, metres and kilometres. Pints for beer, litres for wine, ounces for hard liquor. Celcius for cooking? NO WAY!


Same for me: a product of primary education in the seventies in the UK. Some measurements are obviously meant to be done in imperial units, while others are obviously meant to be done in metric units.

I agree largely with Extradites, but I'll never be able to use metric for height or weight of people. I'm just too used to feet/inches and stones/pounds.
This is the real problem - complacency. To the nay-sayers that argue economical feasability issues as far as industrial change, think again.

Almost all of the major auto-manufacturing companies have started to make the change (yes, even the ones in the states), scientific standard is largely based on the metric system, NASA uses almost exclusively metric (and has for some time) as you can see not making the switch entirely is what has hurt them. Most of the major industry could make the change, but a lack in proper education regarding the value of the system keeps them from doing so - I know, because I am in just such an industry; construction/engineering.

In Canada, because we are next door to our imperial loving neigbours, we are forced to use the imperial system for light construction due to the fact that pre-manufactured parts and education are also based on it. Its hard to explain to a framer using 2x lumber about the benefits of using metric sizes when you have to explain it to him using terms like 'yeah, thats an 89x210'.

I worked at a sawmill for a long time, and I know that they have the capability of running lumber in metric almost at the switch of a button - the entire mill can make the change in less than half a shift. They do so because other more progressive countries like Japan, insist on the benefits of using metric non-nominally dimensioned lumber (which I will get into in a minute). A lot of people don't understand that it really is that easy to change over, we sold 'genban', metric sized lumber to them at a premium, and there were no '89x210's all of the sizes were actual sizes (not changed to make sense like they have to be in imperial).

A 2x4 in imperial measure isn't even really a 2x4, but no framer in the world could be bothered to figure out wall dimensions etc using the concept of a 1-1/2 x 3-1/2 inch stud. In Metric, the sizes are changed slightly, so that after production the actual sizes are even numbers - much easier and more accurate to work with than fractional measure.

The other thing, as Im sure you know, is the ability to add numbers without fudging - numbers always add together seamlessly using metric when everything is cut or sized to the nearest centimeter - try doing that even half as well with fractional inches, good luck. For the same reason, in Canada, higher cost buildings such as large scale commercial structures, must be built in metric - simply because it has proven far more accurate and less problematic than imperial (and no, this is not just in Canada).

The benefits of using metric for engineering... please, don't even get me started. The units of measure for dynamic and static forces in imperial are absurd, have no relation to each other - and are horribly inaccurate. I know that any engineering is primarily theoretic anyway - but at least the margin for error is drastically reduced by using the metric system. Here again, the only reason we must still use the blasted imperial system in smaller scale buidings, is that the major manufacturers of building components are stateside and use imperial. I view working on larger projects designed in metric as a treat after dealing with all of the ridiculous conversions nessecary to design anything in imperial. The imperial system has holes in it that you could drive a bus through in this regard.

I could go on all day, the examples are nearly limitless, but complacency and stubborn nature seem to be the key here as far as an unwillingness to change - lets not forget how many other countries managed to make the switch.

Myrmidonisia, why on earth are you bringing up the 205th anniversary of the matric system. If it were the two hundredth, that would have been worth mentioning. Of course, you propbably can't understand that concept since you support the imperial system. :)

I think the Imperial system is just a way for the yanks and the brits to declare themselves to be 'different' than everyone else. Like your own secret little language...though even between the two of you, you don't manage to agree on all your measurements:). I'd have to say though that that your temperature measurements are the most annoying...40 degrees to the rest of the world is just damn hot!

That being said, I grew up with parents who were schooled in Imperial measurements, and I find that many people of my generation are all mixed up...we use metric for some and imperial for other. For example, my height is in feet and inches...I couldn't tell you what it would be in centimetres. Same with weight...pounds, not kilograms. BUT when I buy food, it's in kilos!!!?? Inches for length? What the? I use centimetres, metres and kilometres. Pints for beer, litres for wine, ounces for hard liquor. Celcius for cooking? NO WAY!

I'm one very confused kitten!

Actually here in Britain we use celsuis for temperature, so 40 degrees is damned hot for us as well. :p

As for the rest, I know what you're talking about. Metric is fine for science, and maybe DIY, but it's just an ugly and souless system. Being 1 meter 50 centimeters tall doesn't mean jack shit to anybody, but being say, 6'1" means something. Weights.... weights I just get confused with. I try to go by lbs, as they're the most precise without having to get into subdivisions of larger units. Here in England I don't even know what we use for weight. Sometimes it's in stones (12 lbs, I think? Or 14?), sometimes it's in pounds, and sometimes kilograms. *Shrugs*

Oh, and distance? Distance is to be measured in miles, and that is the end of it.

Sorry folks.
Australia have piss ant schooners! :(
Be a real Ocker and drink jugs, mate. Or 750ml bottles. That's what we do in Kiwiland.
FYI, a pint is nearly 600ml, which is more than 1/2 a litre (just in case some of you didn't know that!)

Just checked. It's 1/8 of a gallon (4 gills, 20 ounces), which is 568.26ml.
In Britain that is.
In the US, it's 1/8 of a US gallon, which is 473.18ml.

Gods people! You go on about how great the imperial system is, and you can't even agree on how much beer you should have! At least I know a litre of beer is going to be the same whereever I go. Sheesh.

Being 1 meter 50 centimeters tall doesn't mean jack shit to anybody,

What do you mean? It means you're short!


but being say, 6'1" means something.

Sorry, means absolutely nothing to me.

Me? I prefer for common everyday things to be done in the English system. Things like height (six foot two sounds a lot taller than "about two meters") Milk and smaller cola containers (let's face it, the grocery store tried two liters of milk, and they failed. I also prefer 20oz bottles of pop because they're bigger than half-liters, and 12 oz cans) and distance (traveling a mile is much more fulfilling than traveling a kilometer.) And temperatures. I far prefer the Fahrenheit system for the simple reason that it seems to correspond more with human experience. 0-100 degrees is what I live in, and that just makes sense to me.

But metric is vital to science. I'm far more adept at using a gram, or a milliliter than I am at 1/2 ounces and the like. As such, science gets metriced. Degrees celsius are far more useful when dealing with such things as well.

That's my position, and I'm stickin' to it!

From one of the NASA websites:

Likely Cause Of Orbiter Loss Found
The peer review preliminary findings indicate that one team used English units (e.g., inches, feet and pounds) while the other used metric units for a key spacecraft operation.

See my point is made. If we didn't even acknowledge that the SI system existed, we would never have that problem. That and we should never allow H1-B visas from countries that do use SI units.

What do you mean? It means you're short!


Sorry, means absolutely nothing to me.
Ditto. 1,50m is pretty short. I'm 1,86m, which is fairly tall compared to German male average size :p

It's the same. A quarter of a mm (.254 actually), or a hundreth of an inch. Besides, people have different visual acuities and you can always use a magnifying glass, so the argument is pointless. Metric is much, much better in every way.
You guys make me laugh. How many metric scales have you ever graduated in quarter mm steps? None. Now, how many scales are graduated in 1/100 in steps? Plenty.

Metric is just a tool. It's like saying my yardstick is better than my tape measure.

Me? I prefer for common everyday things to be done in the English system. Things like height (six foot two sounds a lot taller than "about two meters") Milk and smaller cola containers (let's face it, the grocery store tried two liters of milk, and they failed. I also prefer 20oz bottles of pop because they're bigger than half-liters, and 12 oz cans) and distance (traveling a mile is much more fulfilling than traveling a kilometer.) And temperatures. I far prefer the Fahrenheit system for the simple reason that it seems to correspond more with human experience. 0-100 degrees is what I live in, and that just makes sense to me.

But metric is vital to science. I'm far more adept at using a gram, or a milliliter than I am at 1/2 ounces and the like. As such, science gets metriced. Degrees celsius are far more useful when dealing with such things as well.

That's my position, and I'm stickin' to it!
It's entirely based on your personal experience. Since you've never experienced living with the metric system, your whole post is based on your limited or non-existent experience. Those who use metric (like the majority of the world) prefer metric, while those who use imperial (the ignorant and lazy Americans) prefer imperial. Sucks to be you I guess, but you're deviant from the norm.

But metric is vital to science. I'm far more adept at using a gram, or a milliliter than I am at 1/2 ounces and the like. As such, science gets metriced. Degrees celsius are far more useful when dealing with such things as well.

That's my position, and I'm stickin' to it!
Not to beat a dead horse too hard, but you guys are just confused. Being more adept at using something doesn't mean it is more useful. Centigrade is just Fareheight with a little distortion. Or course, if you are talking science, you should be talking Kelvin and Rankin, huh:)?

Myrmidonisia, why on earth are you bringing up the 205th anniversary of the matric system. If it were the two hundredth, that would have been worth mentioning. Of course, you propbably can't understand that concept since you support the imperial system. :)
We celebrated the 200th five years ago, the 201 four years past, this year it's time for the 205th. Next year it'll be the 206th.

History is so sequential!

Not to beat a dead horse too hard, but you guys are just confused. Being more adept at using something doesn't mean it is more useful. Centigrade is just Fareheight with a little distortion. Or course, if you are talking science, you should be talking Kelvin and Rankin, huh:)?
The Centigrade scale is based on the freezing point of water at 0°C. Anything below 0°C is cool, below -10°C is cold. Above 20°C is fairly warm and above 40°C is hot. Water boils at 100°C.

There you have it, even more scales of 100 :p

You guys make me laugh. How many metric scales have you ever graduated in quarter mm steps? None. Now, how many scales are graduated in 1/100 in steps? Plenty.

Metric is just a tool. It's like saying my yardstick is better than my tape measure.
Pffft! You are the laughable one. Most everyday scales are graduated to 1/16, maybe 1/32, of an inch. In science of course you can find 1/100s of an inch, just like you can find 1/10000 m or even 1/100000 m and use a bloody magnifying glass.

I tell you, it's no advantage or difference at all. Metric is simply much more convenient.

Pffft! You are the laughable one. Most everyday scales are graduated to 1/16, maybe 1/32, of an inch. In science of course you can find 1/100s of an inch, just like you can find 1/10000 m or even 1/100000 m and use a bloody magnifying glass.

I tell you, it's no advantage or difference at all. Metric is simply much more convenient.
It's not called 1/10000 m or 1/1000000 m but 1 nanometer or 1 micrometer or 1 pikometer.

Ein Deutscher']It's not called 1/10000 m or 1/1000000 m but 1 nanometer or 1 micrometer or 1 pikometer.
My point is that the rulers can be divided in a similar way; not what they're named. 1/10000 m = 0.1 mm or 100 micrometers, if you prefer, but they're the same thing.

My point is that the rulers can be divided in a similar way; not what they're named. 1/10000 m = 0.1 mm or 100 micrometers, if you prefer, but they're the same thing.
To me the whole decimal system seems easier to count with than a system based on multiples of 8.

Ein Deutscher']The Centigrade scale is based on the freezing point of water at 0°C. Anything below 0°C is cool, below -10°C is cold. Above 20°C is fairly warm and above 40°C is hot. Water boils at 100°C.

There you have it, even more scales of 100 :p
Was this lesson for my benefit? I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention. But ZERO degrees is still -273C. How does that square with your decimal system?

My point is that the rulers can be divided in a similar way; not what they're named. 1/10000 m = 0.1 mm or 100 micrometers, if you prefer, but they're the same thing.
You guys are still not using the brains you were born with. You can't divide a scale into 100 micrometer units. It would look like black fuzz between the mm lines. On the other hand you can do that with a decimal inch scale and have a usable scale.

This (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PARTPG=NNLMK32&PMPXNO=4760308) is the best I can find in metric scales. 500 um divisions. Still not as precise as a decimal inch scale. Find me a 250 um scale and I'll concede that you can indeed measure as accurately with a metric scale.

I thought you were all men of science. Don't you know the difference between precision, accuracy, significant digits and practical tools?

Was this lesson for my benefit? I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention. But ZERO degrees is still -273C. How does that square with your decimal system?
You really wasn't paying attention. -273(.15)C isn't "zero degrees", it's the absolute theoretical freezing point. In Celsius scale "zero degrees" is the freezing point of water. Really shouldn't be hard.

Was this lesson for my benefit? I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention. But ZERO degrees is still -273C. How does that square with your decimal system?
Actually, zero degree Kelvin is -273C. They are not the same thing. Just like Farenheight and Celsius is not the same think. So you are sadly mistaken.

Kelvin is not the same as Celsius just like a mile is not the same as an inch; they both mesure distance but they are not the same mesuring unit.

Yes, we have managed to avoid that ugly product of King Louis' France called the metric system for the last 205 years. Truly a last ditch effort to calm the masses, this measurement system seems to only exist because the revolutionaries couldn't count higher than the number of fingers on both hands. They demanded a "simpler" system of measurements and got this mess, instead.

There are a couple good points to adopting this mess of greek prefixes.
--Gas will seem cheaper at 66 cents a liter.
--Being 22 kilos overweight does not sound as bad as 50 lbs.
--Half a liter is more than a pint, which means, MORE BEER FOR EVERYBODY!

On the other hand, the kilogram is shrinking. I'm not sure what happens when it disappears, but it can only be bad. Maybe catastrophic.

Here's to another year just like the past 205. No Metric, No Way!

Never mind the fact that although the general public has not adopted the metric system, it works just fine for our military and weapon manufacturers...(klicks, 9mm, etc.)

You guys are still not using the brains you were born with. You can't divide a scale into 100 micrometer units. It would look like black fuzz between the mm lines. On the other hand you can do that with a decimal inch scale and have a usable scale.

This (http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PARTPG=NNLMK32&PMPXNO=4760308) is the best I can find in metric scales. 500 um divisions. Still not as precise as a decimal inch scale. Find me a 250 um scale and I'll concede that you can indeed measure as accurately with a metric scale.

I thought you were all men of science. Don't you know the difference between precision, accuracy, significant digits and practical tools?
Just try to mesure an atom with your imperial system. The imperial system is not made to mesure small objects.

Ein Deutscher']It's entirely based on your personal experience. Since you've never experienced living with the metric system, your whole post is based on your limited or non-existent experience. Those who use metric (like the majority of the world) prefer metric, while those who use imperial (the ignorant and lazy Americans) prefer imperial. Sucks to be you I guess, but you're deviant from the norm.

After some thought, I realized that the metric system is catching on in the U.S. It's starting with the ever-increasing popularity of 9mm bullets...

Yes, we have managed to avoid that ugly product of King Louis' France called the metric system for the last 205 years. Truly a last ditch effort to calm the masses, this measurement system seems to only exist because the revolutionaries couldn't count higher than the number of fingers on both hands. They demanded a "simpler" system of measurements and got this mess, instead.

There are a couple good points to adopting this mess of greek prefixes.
--Gas will seem cheaper at 66 cents a liter.
--Being 22 kilos overweight does not sound as bad as 50 lbs.
--Half a liter is more than a pint, which means, MORE BEER FOR EVERYBODY!

On the other hand, the kilogram is shrinking. I'm not sure what happens when it disappears, but it can only be bad. Maybe catastrophic.

Here's to another year just like the past 205. No Metric, No Way!

.205 kiloyears.

.205 kiloyears.

No, that would be .205 millenia. The passage of time in years is already done in metrics (i.e. decade, century, millenium).

Just try to mesure an atom with your imperial system. The imperial system is not made to mesure small objects.
a hydrogen atom is 9.84 10^-10 inches. what's the problem?

Actually, zero degree Kelvin is -273C. They are not the same thing. Just like Farenheight and Celsius is not the same think. So you are sadly mistaken.

Kelvin is not the same as Celsius just like a mile is not the same as an inch; they both mesure distance but they are not the same mesuring unit.
the gradation of Kelvin and Celsius are the same, are they not (i'm not really sure - i'm asking)? seeing as to find a temperature in K you simply minus 273 from the centegrade figure :confused:

i could be wrong of course

a hydrogen atom is 9.84 10^-10 inches. what's the problem?
I find it much easier to say it's 3 microns (random mesure, not exact)
than divise a unit that much. Can you imagine the mesuring stick with that much precision? It's as bad as one in microns. Which brings me to my point:
The amount of small lines between two untis of mesure means jack-shit when it comes to argue which system is better.

Let's set a couple of things right.

First, the metric system is a crutch for people who can't be bothered with dimensional units. Show me a man that doesn't like a good (ft.lb/slug.degR) and I'll show you someone who can't hack science.

Second, while a half liter of beer might be more satisfying than a pint, who could ever order something like that and not laugh.

Same thing with steak. How on earth can you order a 355 gram steak? What the hell is that? Converting from dollars to anything else is hard enough, why should we have to convert steak, too?

Last, 45 ACP bullets are a whole lot better than 9mm anything.

Case settled.

Actually, zero degree Kelvin is -273C. They are not the same thing. Just like Farenheight and Celsius is not the same think. So you are sadly mistaken.

Kelvin is not the same as Celsius just like a mile is not the same as an inch; they both mesure distance but they are not the same mesuring unit.
One Kelvin and one degree Celsius both measure the exact same amount.

No, that would be .205 millenia. The passage of time in years is already done in metrics (i.e. decade, century, millenium).

Way to ruin a joke.

the gradation of Kelvin and Celsius are the same, are they not (i'm not really sure - i'm asking)? seeing as to find a temperature in K you simply minus 273 from the centegrade figure :confused:

i could be wrong of course
Nah, these guys are just nit-picky because the metric system is a lost cause:)

the gradation of Kelvin and Celsius are the same, are they not (i'm not really sure - i'm asking)? seeing as to find a temperature in K you simply minus 273 from the centegrade figure :confused:

i could be wrong of course
You are correct.

Kelvin liked the Celsius system so much that he just used the same scale but made sure it can never be a negative number.

That or he was just plain lazy and couldn't be bothered to find a resonable explanation to use as to why 100K is here instead of there.

No, that would be .205 millenia. The passage of time in years is already done in metrics (i.e. decade, century, millenium).
Weeks, months, fortnights...Yea, those are metric.

the gradation of Kelvin and Celsius are the same, are they not (i'm not really sure - i'm asking)? seeing as to find a temperature in K you simply minus 273 from the centegrade figure :confused:

i could be wrong of courseYeah. The freezing point of water (0°C), and the boiling point of water (100°C), correspond to 273.15K and 373.15K, respectively.

One Kelvin and one degree Celsius both measure the exact same amount.
so?

They are not the same mesuring unit nevertheless.

so?

They are not the same mesuring unit nevertheless.
Your mile and inch analogy is misleading... a mile is tens of thousands of times bigger than an inch, while a Kelvin is exactly 1 degree Celsius.

The advantage of metrics is simple. With English measurements you have to learn conversions, twelve inches to a foot, sixteen ounces to a pound, etc. With metrics, you learn the basic units, grams, liters, meters, etc., and you learn the prefixes, kilo-, deca, milli, etc., and you're done. That's the point. People shouldn't have to do intense calculations, memorize or look up how many inches there are in a mile. If you can't figure out how many centimeters in a kilometer in your head then take off your lab coat, walk over to the window and throw yourself out it to the pavement below.

Weeks, months, fortnights...Yea, those are metric.

If you'd bother to pay attention, you'll notice that I said the passage of time,in years, is already done in metrics.

Let's set a couple of things right.

First, the metric system is a crutch for people who can't be bothered with dimensional units. Show me a man that doesn't like a good (ft.lb/slug.degR) and I'll show you someone who can't hack science.

Second, while a half liter of beer might be more satisfying than a pint, who could ever order something like that and not laugh.

Same thing with steak. How on earth can you order a 355 gram steak? What the hell is that? Converting from dollars to anything else is hard enough, why should we have to convert steak, too?

Last, 45 ACP bullets are a whole lot better than 9mm anything.

Case settled.

Oh right, how can you order half liter of beer and not laugh?
Well, maybe like everywhere in the world, except in the USA and Britain? :p

Your mile and inch analogy is misleading... a mile is tens of thousands of times bigger than an inch, while a Kelvin is exactly 1 degree Celsius.
You're right. The analogy should be more like a mile and 5280 feet. Assuming a statue mile, anyway.

Way to ruin a joke.

Yeah, I'm good for that.

If you'd bother to pay attention, you'll notice that I said the passage of time,in years, is already done in metrics.
If you haven't noticed, I'm trying to have some fun. Not settle a serious question. That would be the Mac vs PC thread...

So I'm not entitled to have my own fun by pointing out the obvious flaws in your posts? That's not fair at all...I demand equal time to ridicule!

I find it much easier to say it's 3 microns (random mesure, not exact)
True, metric terminology is far superior to imperial terminology, but you are wrong to say the imperial system cannot measure small quantities... in math and science you use the imperial system to do anything that the metric system can do.

So I'm not entitled to have my own fun by pointing out the obvious flaws in your posts? That's not fair at all...I demand equal time to ridicule!
The problem is that sarcasm just doesn't come across well in posts. I wish I could do it better and I wish I could read it in others posts better.

That being said, "Fire Away".

Your mile and inch analogy is misleading... a mile is tens of thousands of times bigger than an inch, while a Kelvin is exactly 1 degree Celsius.
I don't see how.

They are both unit to mesure distance just like Kelvin and degree Celsius are both unit to mesure temperature. It's not my fault if the imperial system doesn't have two units that mesure the same thing that are close to one another.

True, metric terminology is far superior to imperial terminology, but you are wrong to say the imperial system cannot measure small quantities... in math and science you use the imperial system to do anything that the metric system can do.

There is that one conundrum with kilograms. They are supposed to be mass, right? Why does everyone weigh themselves in Kilos? Shouldn't they be using Newtons? The vastly superior customary unit system has long ago solved that problem by declaring that there are both pounds-force and pounds-mass. What about it Metric Boys?

I don't see how.

They are both unit to mesure distance just like Kelvin and degree Celsius are both unit to mesure temperature. It's not my fault if the imperial system doesn't have two units that mesure the same thing that are close to one another.
Well, the first thing that came to mind was statue miles vs 5280 feet, but I guess an equally inaccurate example in customary units would be degrees Rankin and degrees Farenheit. They both measure the same thing, only from a different zero point.

True, metric terminology is far superior to imperial terminology, but you are wrong to say the imperial system cannot measure small quantities... in math and science you use the imperial system to do anything that the metric system can do.
Yes but I was attacking the notion that the metric system is not good because there are too many lines that separate each unit of mesure.

I know we are all having fun arguing over something trivial but I had to attack the argument that Myrmidonisia used. And he said the metric system is wrong because, in order to mesure small object, the small lines are blurry since there is so much. So imagine mesuring an atom in inches... ;)

The problem is that sarcasm just doesn't come across well in posts. I wish I could do it better and I wish I could read it in others posts better.

That being said, "Fire Away".

Good point. It can be facilitated through the use of italics and smilies, but it's easy to go overboard. My fault for not using my old stand-by post of "You're kidding, right?"

Well, the first thing that came to mind was statue miles vs 5280 feet, but I guess an equally inaccurate example in customary units would be degrees Rankin and degrees Farenheit. They both measure the same thing, only from a different zero point.
Rankin?

I am not aware of that mesuring unit. Care to enlighten me?

(Who knew I would learn something in this thread :) )

I don't see how.

They are both unit to mesure distance just like Kelvin and degree Celsius are both unit to mesure temperature. It's not my fault if the imperial system doesn't have two units that mesure the same thing that are close to one another.
A Kelvin and a degree Celsius are EXACTLY the same thing. They aren't merely "close" to each other, they meausure the same amount. For layman's purposes, just consider a "Kelvin" as another name for a "degree Celsius". If you increase the temperature by 50.2 K, you are increasing the temperature by 50.2 C. A milimeter and a meter are two unequal distances, a gram and a kilogram are two unequal masses, and an inch and a mile are two unequal distances. These should not be analogies to a K and a degree C which are two equal measurements of temperature.

There is that one conundrum with kilograms. They are supposed to be mass, right? Why does everyone weigh themselves in Kilos? Shouldn't they be using Newtons? The vastly superior customary unit system has long ago solved that problem by declaring that there are both pounds-force and pounds-mass. What about it Metric Boys?
Forces are not masses. Using pound for measuring both lead to confusion.
We invented two different unit to measure the two. Aren't we smart.

I don't see how.

They are both unit to mesure distance just like Kelvin and degree Celsius are both unit to mesure temperature. It's not my fault if the imperial system doesn't have two units that mesure the same thing that are close to one another.

The imperial system doesn't have two units to measure the same thing becuase there's no point. The inch exists so don't have to say my finger is one three-thousandth of a mile long (I guessed at a measurement). And miles exist so I don't have to say I'm driving 290,400 inches per hour. What is the advantage of having Celcius and Kelvin?

Yes but I was attacking the notion that the metric system is not good because there are too many lines that separate each unit of mesure.

I know we are all having fun arguing over something trivial but I had to attack the argument that Myrmidonisia used. And he said the metric system is wrong because, in order to mesure small object, the small lines are blurry since there is so much. So imagine mesuring an atom in inches... ;)
I guess I'm not clear enough. I can buy and use a scale that is accurate to a 1/100 in. I can't buy and use a scale that is accurate to 0.25 mm. Whether I can buy and use a micrometer to measure things to 0.0001 in or some really small fraction of a meter isn't my point. I was only limiting my comments to what we can do within the limits of normal visual acuity.

Gosh that was way to serious. Now it's time for a jigger of Scotch.

A Kelvin and a degree Celsius are EXACTLY the same thing. They aren't merely "close" to each other, they meausure the same amount. For layman's purposes, just consider a "Kelvin" as another name for a "degree Celsius". If you increase the temperature by 50.2 K, you are increasing the temperature by 50.2 C. A milimeter and a meter are two unequal distances, a gram and a kilogram are two unequal masses, and an inch and a mile are two unequal distances. These should not be analogies to a K and a degree C which are two equal measurements of temperature.
Fine. My analogy wasn't the best out there. It did drive my point across, somewhat.

I can't help it if I can't find a similar analogy in the imperial system.
As for why I didn't use 1 mile = 5280 feet, it couldn't be bothered to make the conversion in your arcane system. :) . Plus, it would have been a bad analogy since I was talking about units and not mesurement.

I like the metric system more for the most part because in many calculations one only has to move the decimal place. You might say that that just makes me lazy, but, there is absolutely nothing gained by using a system that doesn't simplify so many calculations. It would be like calling someone lazy for using the power rule in calculus instead of working every problem from the definition of a limit.
I must say, however, that I prefer the imperial system of temperature. It is more aesthetic, I think, that the boiling and freezing points of water are exactly 180 degrees apart, like opposite sides of a circle.

An interesting note on metric and imperial measurements:
If you measure liquid density in grams per cc in the metric system and lbs. per pint in the imperial system, you get the same unit. Water, for example, is 1 g/cc and 1 lb./pint.

Finally, despite its superior quality, I do not believe the United States should convert to the metric system. It would cost too much money just to change the highway signs. That said, every child should learn metric units in school as well as imperial units.

It really sounds like more of a communist plot than does the metric system.

from the digital time website

There are no world time zones in NDST. Everyone uses the same time. The day begins and ends at the same time of the current Universal Time Coordianted (UTC) reference.
...
The New Digital Standard Time (NDST) is French decimal time, synchronized with UTC. NDSC months are numbered 0-9 and named Nuller, Prier, Secter, Trier, Quattrer, Penter, Sexter, Septer, Octer and Noner. The days of the month are likewise numbered 0-9, and are named Yourday, Myday, Momday, Dadday, Poorday, Giveday, Getday, Workday, Loveday, Restday.


And they can't spell, either.

The imperial system doesn't have two units to measure the same thing becuase there's no point. The inch exists so don't have to say my finger is one three-thousandth of a mile long (I guessed at a measurement). And miles exist so I don't have to say I'm driving 290,400 inches per hour. What is the advantage of having Celcius and Kelvin?
Kelvin never has negative numbers. That is the only avantage / difference.

I think it's easier when you make mathematical equasion about alloy and such.

There is that one conundrum with kilograms. They are supposed to be mass, right? Why does everyone weigh themselves in Kilos? Shouldn't they be using Newtons? The vastly superior customary unit system has long ago solved that problem by declaring that there are both pounds-force and pounds-mass. What about it Metric Boys?

Actually since the acceleration is known, the scale is actually measuring your mass when it is measuring kilograms. If you created a scale to be used on the moon it should show the same amount of mass in kilograms as and earth scale for the same object being measured. When you weigh yourself on an earth scale for pounds and a moon scale for pounds, they measure differently because the forces are different.

The reason there is a conversion given from kilos to pounds is because we hold the acceleration to be constant, but they actually measure two different things.

The imperial system doesn't have two units to measure the same thing becuase there's no point. The inch exists so don't have to say my finger is one three-thousandth of a mile long (I guessed at a measurement). And miles exist so I don't have to say I'm driving 290,400 inches per hour. What is the advantage of having Celcius and Kelvin?
Actually, neither Celsius nor Fahrenheit are convenient for scientific purposes. In science Kelvin is the best measurement.

Kelvin never has negative numbers. That is the only avantage / difference.

I think it's easier when you make mathematical equasion about alloy and such.

You told me why you should have one of them (Kelvin). I asked why you should have both. If Kelvin is more useful then why not do away with Celcius? Could it be it's widely-used much like, oh, I don't know, the imperial units?

I guess I'm not clear enough. I can buy and use a scale that is accurate to a 1/100 in. I can't buy and use a scale that is accurate to 0.25 mm. Whether I can buy and use a micrometer to measure things to 0.0001 in or some really small fraction of a meter isn't my point. I was only limiting my comments to what we can do within the limits of normal visual acuity.

Gosh that was way to serious. Now it's time for a jigger of Scotch.
Why would you want to buy a sale that is accurate to 0.25 mm? If you buy such a scale, it would probably be accurate to 0.01 mm. Why would you want to mesure an accuracy of 0.25 mm of all things if you use the metric system?

It just is a bad example as to why the metric system is wrong. It just doesn't make sense. It's like me asking why would I want to mesure something to within 3,3 cm (1 inch). It's just as inane from one side than the other.

And yes, I love taking these kinds of things too seriously. :p

You told me why you should have one of them (Kelvin). I asked why you should have both. If Kelvin is more useful then why not do away with Celcius? Could it be it's widely-used much like, oh, I don't know, the imperial units?
Celsius is a convenient unit of measurement because it is good for describing the freezing point of water (0 degrees) and boiling point of water (100 degrees). These numbers are easy to remember and useful for every day purposes. The Fahrenheit boiling point of water is less commonly known. So in this respect Celsius has its advantages. But in many aspects of science, Kelvin is far more convenient than either C or F.

Imperial is totally the most confusing thing ever.

You told me why you should have one of them (Kelvin). I asked why you should have both. If Kelvin is more useful then why not do away with Celcius? Could it be it's widely-used much like, oh, I don't know, the imperial units?
The absolute temperature is required in any number of calcuations. Pv=RT is one place you would use Rankin instead of Farenheit. The fact that molecular energy is zero at 0 deg is important.

On the other hand to talk about water freezing at 491 degrees is a little more awkward than at 32 degrees.

Where are the number nazis to correct my rounding?

You told me why you should have one of them (Kelvin). I asked why you should have both. If Kelvin is more useful then why not do away with Celcius? Could it be it's widely-used much like, oh, I don't know, the imperial units?
There's no reason to have both apart from the fact that people are still using Clesius (just like people are still using inches). Eventually, we will shift our mesurements in Kelvin everywhere and that will be that. We are in a transitionnal phase right now because our generation is still using Celsius. As soon as the school start teaching Kelvin, the Celsius will disapear within two generations.

Just like the imperial system is slowly but surely disapearing from the countries that are using the metric system.

In the meantime, the conversion between Kelvin and Celsius is easy whereas the conversion between Farenheit and Clesius is much harder.

Imperial is totally the most confusing thing ever.
Only to those with small ... Oh never mind.

Celsius is a convenient unit of measurement because it is good for describing the freezing point of water (0 degrees) and boiling point of water (100 degrees). These numbers are easy to remember and useful for every day purposes. The Fahrenheit boiling point of water is less commonly known. So in this respect Celsius has its advantages. But in many aspects of science, Kelvin is far more convenient than either C or F.

Huh? Everyone here seems to be able to remember 273 which you would have to know if you use both celcius and Kelvin. If you can remember the conversion you can remember that water boils at 373 and freezes at 273. Easy breezy. Hell, I think everyone remembers 32 degrees F and 212 degrees F, as well. That's a terrible reason to have two equal units of measure. Like you said, it's because people are used to it. Pot, quit calling the kettle black.

In the meantime, the conversion between Kelvin and Celsius is easy whereas the conversion between Farenheit and Clesius is much harder.

There is a brand of refrigerator know as a Kelvinator. Been around for a long time. I always like to thing that it was based on degrees K. Probably in vain,too.

The conversion between F and C is pretty easy for guys like me that just want an answer. C -> F = double it and add 32. F->C = for the student. It works pretty well up to well beyond comfortable limits, anyway.

Then again, if you are a purist, you need to go with the 9/5ths thing.

The absolute temperature is required in any number of calcuations. Pv=RT is one place you would use Rankin instead of Farenheit. The fact that molecular energy is zero at 0 deg is important.

On the other hand to talk about water freezing at 491 degrees is a little more awkward than at 32 degrees.

Where are the number nazis to correct my rounding?

How is it more awkward? I'm saying it out loud right now. Seems perfectly unawkward to me. There is no reason to have both except comfort.

Plus, I was actually making the argument is that it's just about remaining comfortable which is the same reason people don't want to do away with imperial units. Using imperial units in the example is not helpful.

Huh? Everyone here seems to be able to remember 273 which you would have to know if you use both celcius and Kelvin. If you can remember the conversion you can remember that water boils at 373 and freezes at 273. Easy breezy. Hell, I think everyone remembers 32 degrees F and 212 degrees F, as well. That's a terrible reason to have two equal units of measure. Like you said, it's because people are used to it. Pot, quit calling the kettle black.
Never mind what I said. I just read East Canuck's post... he says C is being phased out in many parts of the world, so I guess there's not going to be two equal units of measure any more.

There is a brand of refrigerator know as a Kelvinator. Been around for a long time. I always like to thing that it was based on degrees K. Probably in vain,too.
It probably is...


The conversion between F and C is pretty easy for guys like me that just want an answer. C -> F = double it and add 32. F->C = for the student. It works pretty well up to well beyond comfortable limits, anyway.

Then again, if you are a purist, you need to go with the 9/5ths thing.
Yes but you can't argue that one addition is easier than one multiplication followed by one addition...

I'm not saying it's hard to convert, I'm saying it's easier...

There's no reason to have both apart from the fact that people are still using Clesius (just like people are still using inches). Eventually, we will shift our mesurements in Kelvin everywhere and that will be that. We are in a transitionnal phase right now because our generation is still using Celsius. As soon as the school start teaching Kelvin, the Celsius will disapear within two generations.

Just like the imperial system is slowly but surely disapearing from the countries that are using the metric system.

Interesting, I didn't know K is slowly replacing C in common usage. Guess you learn something new every day.

There's no reason to have both apart from the fact that people are still using Clesius (just like people are still using inches). Eventually, we will shift our mesurements in Kelvin everywhere and that will be that. We are in a transitionnal phase right now because our generation is still using Celsius. As soon as the school start teaching Kelvin, the Celsius will disapear within two generations.

Just like the imperial system is slowly but surely disapearing from the countries that are using the metric system.

In the meantime, the conversion between Kelvin and Celsius is easy whereas the conversion between Farenheit and Clesius is much harder.

Farenheit and Kelvin, you mean.

That was my point. It's a slow and gradual change to get people to use measurements they are less comfortable with. It's happening slowly but surely in the states as well. Eventually everyone will be using metric. It just takes time.

How is it more awkward? I'm saying it out loud right now. Seems perfectly unawkward to me. There is no reason to have both except comfort.

Plus, I was actually making the argument is that it's just about remaining comfortable which is the same reason people don't want to do away with imperial units. Using imperial units in the example is not helpful.

People like small numbers. The difference between 32 and 50 means the difference between a jacket and a sweater to me. The difference between 491 and 508 sounds like you're living on the Sun.

On a completely different tack, 32/0 for freezing and 212/100 for boiling was probably established long before R/K scales. There is probably a history of science page that would explain it nicely. I just don't want to find it.

Aviation still uses "Imperial Standard" (Knots, feet, pounds of fuel.) Even Military aviation still uses IS. Aircraft Manufacturing uses the decimal-inch scale as well-even Airbus uses it.
There are two significant differences between Metric, and Imperial Standard:

1. You actually have to be able to do math, and know units, to use IS, any moron can use metrics, all he has to be able to do, is count his fingers. (and hope he didn't lose one in the chop-saw.)

2. metric is heavier, smaller, and goes slower. 1KM is roughly 3/5 of a mile-so metric speeds look a LOT more impressive than they really are. Small measurements (Height of a man) are also much more 'impresive' looking in the triple-digits of centimeters, or the double-digits of decimeters, than they are when you just use feet and inches.

Metric is still not used in aviation, btw, because it's harder to counterfiet parts on metric machinery for an aircraft, and because without a universal system in use by everyone in the field, you lose the ability to communicate with the tower.

Farenheit and Kelvin, you mean.

That was my point. It's a slow and gradual change to get people to use measurements they are less comfortable with. It's happening slowly but surely in the states as well. Eventually everyone will be using metric. It just takes time.
You sure are taking your sweet time... 205 years and counting :p

Although I want to point out that I don't know any country that has stopped teaching Celsius yet. It's just that logic dictates that it will happen. Don't look for it to happen soon, though...

I just don't see why we would keep two units of mesure that are identical anyways. The scientific community is slowly using Kelvin exclusively. It's only a matter of time.

How is it more awkward? I'm saying it out loud right now. Seems perfectly unawkward to me. There is no reason to have both except comfort.

Plus, I was actually making the argument is that it's just about remaining comfortable which is the same reason people don't want to do away with imperial units. Using imperial units in the example is not helpful.
not helpful, but it's there... imperial system has units that describe exactly the same thing too.

On a completely different tack, 32/0 for freezing and 212/100 for boiling was probably established long before R/K scales. There is probably a history of science page that would explain it nicely. I just don't want to find it.
IIRC, the Celsius scale was based on water. At 0, it freeses, at 100 it boils. We grade from there.

The Farenheit used the same method but with something else. Alcohol, IIRC.

Metric is still used in aviation, btw, because it's harder to counterfiet parts on metric machinery for an aircraft, and because without a universal system in use by everyone in the field, you lose the ability to communicate with the tower.
I always thought metric parts were used because the machinist couldn't hold a tolerance for SAE sizes. Then they'd just go to the next nearest mm and call it metric.

I heard or read a story about the Russians trying to copy a B-29. Stalin wanted it reproduced exactly. So the engineers had a fit buying metric sized stock and machining it to match the prototype.

No wonder we won the cold war.

On a completely different tack, 32/0 for freezing and 212/100 for boiling was probably established long before R/K scales. There is probably a history of science page that would explain it nicely. I just don't want to find it.
Rather amusing explanation at:
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a891215.html

Aviation still uses "Imperial Standard" (Knots, feet, pounds of fuel.) Even Military aviation still uses IS. Aircraft Manufacturing uses the decimal-inch scale as well-even Airbus uses it.
There are two significant differences between Metric, and Imperial Standard:

1. You actually have to be able to do math, and know units, to use IS, any moron can use metrics, all he has to be able to do, is count his fingers. (and hope he didn't lose one in the chop-saw.)
Working with units is not just counting by tens in metric or memorizing conversions in imperial system. The imperial system is not as convenient in science because it does not contain all the measurements that metric does. For example, there is no predefined imperial measurement for electrical resistance, voltage, or modulus. If you want to do science in the imperial system, you'll have to do pointless conversions. Most scientific constants are given only in metric, and converting something like Boltzmann's Constant (1.3806503 × 10^-23 m^2 kg s^-2 K^-1) to yd^2 lb s^-2 F-1 is a pure waste of time.

2. metric is heavier, smaller, and goes slower. 1KM is roughly 3/5 of a mile-so metric speeds look a LOT more impressive than they really are. Small measurements (Height of a man) are also much more 'impresive' looking in the triple-digits of centimeters, or the double-digits of decimeters, than they are when you just use feet and inches.

Depends on what part of the world you are in... in Asia, all human heights are normally described in meters, so a short man is 1.4 m and a tall man is 1.9 m. ... and Asians are shorter anyways.

It really sounds like more of a communist plot than does the metric system.

from the digital time website


And they can't spell, either.
Yeah, the months thing kind of didn't catch on. But, there's a much better alternative which has been in use for a long, long time. That would be the Mayan calendar. 18 months of 20 days each, 4 five-day weeks, and one week (of 5 or 6 days) at the end of the year just to party (which is what we do nowaday). Just make a few adjustments for modern life and you're set to go.

On a completely different tack, 32/0 for freezing and 212/100 for boiling was probably established long before R/K scales. There is probably a history of science page that would explain it nicely. I just don't want to find it.
Yes, they were. By the time Lord Kelvin inferred that gasses lose pressure at a constant rate according to temperature both the Celsius and Fahrenheit scales were well established. Kelvin was using Celsius for his measurements.

People like small numbers. The difference between 32 and 50 means the difference between a jacket and a sweater to me. The difference between 491 and 508 sounds like you're living on the Sun.

On a completely different tack, 32/0 for freezing and 212/100 for boiling was probably established long before R/K scales. There is probably a history of science page that would explain it nicely. I just don't want to find it.

*adopts gruff voice* I don't care what you like.

I always thought metric parts were used because the machinist couldn't hold a tolerance for SAE sizes. Then they'd just go to the next nearest mm and call it metric.

I heard or read a story about the Russians trying to copy a B-29. Stalin wanted it reproduced exactly. So the engineers had a fit buying metric sized stock and machining it to match the prototype.

No wonder we won the cold war.

Nope, if you tried to build a 747 using metric measurements and the dimensions on the plans, it won't work-it won't even be close to working. everything's decimal-inch.

Nope, if you tried to build a 747 using metric measurements and the dimensions on the plans, it won't work-it won't even be close to working. everything's decimal-inch.
just convert customary to metric. I thought you were the one calling for more math work. it's a hassle but i can't imagine how it could be physically impossible to build a plane with metersticks instead of yardsticks.

Metric is more efficient and a better system for any technical or scientific purposes. It does, however, suffer from being unrelated to us as beings.

The Imperial system is a human system created by humans for humans from humans. A yard is the stride of an adult man or the distance from his fingeretip to his nose. An inch is the length of the tip of his thumb. The Farenheight scale deals with temperatures we experience in our daily lives.

Use either one. Just don't mix them

(I grew up using imperial, then was converted to metric. I can think in either. I am 1.89 or 6'4". 39 degrees is either a very hot day or a quite cold one. )

just convert customary to metric. I thought you were the one calling for more math work. it's a hassle but i can't imagine how it could be physically impossible to build a plane with metersticks instead of yardsticks.
The problem being, your tolerances and clearances would have to be in .024 cm divisions, and you'd have to do a slew of mathematical conversions on each page of several thousand. You can design a plane in Metric, but it won't be compatible with anything manufactured for Aviation, or for aviation-grade equipment if you do-it'll be 100% proprietary technology, which won't win you manufacturing contracts with any carrier in operation or any currently-functioning airforce. Aviation spec is aviation spec for a reason.

The problem being, your tolerances and clearances would have to be in .024 cm divisions, and you'd have to do a slew of mathematical conversions on each page of several thousand. You can design a plane in Metric, but it won't be compatible with anything manufactured for Aviation, or for aviation-grade equipment if you do-it'll be 100% proprietary technology, which won't win you manufacturing contracts with any carrier in operation or any currently-functioning airforce. Aviation spec is aviation spec for a reason.
So you can build with metric. Possible if impracticable. Your earlier post...
"Nope, if you tried to build a 747 using metric measurements and the dimensions on the plans, it won't work-it won't even be close to working. everything's decimal-inch."
implied that you didn't know basic multiplication. Of course building a 747 using metric would work. It would just take more time and money. But it's not terribly difficult to multiply numbers together to convert from inch to cm.

The metric system is better, because it is compatible with our mathematical system which has ten as its base.

So you can build with metric. Possible if impracticable. Your earlier post...
"Nope, if you tried to build a 747 using metric measurements and the dimensions on the plans, it won't work-it won't even be close to working. everything's decimal-inch."
implied that you didn't know basic multiplication. Of course building a 747 using metric would work. It would just take more time and money. But it's not terribly difficult to multiply numbers together to convert from inch to cm.

No, it's not, but your need for specialty tooling to do the conversion for subassemblies would be absolutely a nightmare, and if the guages inside are reading metric, your aviators are NOT going to be happy with you. (Charts are Imperial Standard in Aviation. Miles, not Kilometers.) though it might be interesting to see a pilot try to handle the conversions from tower instructions (Imperial measurement) to his instruments (Metric) on your Metric airplane.

The problem being, your tolerances and clearances would have to be in .024 cm divisions, and you'd have to do a slew of mathematical conversions on each page of several thousand. You can design a plane in Metric, but it won't be compatible with anything manufactured for Aviation, or for aviation-grade equipment if you do-it'll be 100% proprietary technology, which won't win you manufacturing contracts with any carrier in operation or any currently-functioning airforce. Aviation spec is aviation spec for a reason.
Now hold on. I've got a set of plans for building an Emeraude. Designed by Claude Piel, the whole thing is metric. I even bought a metric tape measure, and several scales to get started. The part that sucks is, like the Russians and the B-29, I can't get material in the proper dimension. I can only buy spruce in customary units, no metric. So I round up. The plane will be a little heavier, but ok.

Oh the shame, I admitted to using metric.

Yay for 10 fingers

No, it's not, but your need for specialty tooling to do the conversion for subassemblies would be absolutely a nightmare, and if the guages inside are reading metric, your aviators are NOT going to be happy with you. (Charts are Imperial Standard in Aviation. Miles, not Kilometers.) though it might be interesting to see a pilot try to handle the conversions from tower instructions (Imperial measurement) to his instruments (Metric) on your Metric airplane.
Military pilots have a thing called the Flight Information Handbook. Or they did when I was flying A-6s. It does bars to inHg, which is a common method of reporting altimeter settings. Flight levels are all at 180 and above and I think all the clearances are given in customary units. I remember seeing pictures of Russian aircraft that have the instruments calibrated in meters and km/h.

The response from any self respecting pilot that couldn't do the conversion would be first, "Say again, tower?"

lol you actually paid for a schooner? Should have asked for a pint mate
It was actually at an RSA(SORRY RSL)club and they didnt sell Pints well thats what they said.
Maybe the Veterans cant handle their liquor????

The Imperial system is a human system created by humans for humans from humans. A yard is the stride of an adult man or the distance from his fingeretip to his nose. An inch is the length of the tip of his thumb. The Farenheight scale deals with temperatures we experience in our daily lives.

Actually an Inch is 3 Acorns side by side!
Edward the something of England wanted a Measurement. :confused:

Now hold on. I've got a set of plans for building an Emeraude. Designed by Claude Piel, the whole thing is metric. I even bought a metric tape measure, and several scales to get started. The part that sucks is, like the Russians and the B-29, I can't get material in the proper dimension. I can only buy spruce in customary units, no metric. So I round up. The plane will be a little heavier, but ok.

Oh the shame, I admitted to using metric.
you could try trimming the spruce down to Metric dimensions, if you're a good enough hand with sandpaper and a rasp... good luck with the landing gear though, and you might have some problems if you intend to get an FAA ticket that doesn't say "Experimental".

you could try trimming the spruce down to Metric dimensions, if you're a good enough hand with sandpaper and a rasp... good luck with the landing gear though, and you might have some problems if you intend to get an FAA ticket that doesn't say "Experimental".
We've done some pre-inspections on the wings, all I have finished now, and they seem to like them. I'm probably within a 1/32 on most dimensions and never under. I'll do the first flight, as well as the fly-off hours, so I do have the most interest in getting it right.

Only class I can get certified in is Experimental--Home Built. And that's fine with me.