NationStates Jolt Archive

I was reading the bible, I know it just causes trouble but, I ran across something that made me stop and think. I'm always hearing christians saying that 'all sin leads to death' 'pray for all sinners' 'we can be forgiven for all things' 'don't listen to that man, he is a blasphemr of G-d and I hate that'

the list goes on and on and on, yet I can never get people to back those statements with anything from the bible, except vauge statements taken out of context. So, I would like to disprove a couple of those statements.


'all sin leads to death'

"Every sin is wrong, but not all sin leads to death" 1st John 5:17

'pray for all sinners'

"But there is a sin that leads to death, and I'm not saying to pray for those that commit it." 1st John 5:16


just a few thoughts for christians that don't really know whats in the bible.

I've never read the Bible, but I pray for sinners. Besides, from that John passage you qouted we have no idea what sin not to pray for. And all he's saying that he is not saying that you have to pray for them. It's more of a they are not worthy of your prayer feeling I'm getting from that one. So I may as well pray for everyone right? And when you think about it, everything kinda leads to death, accept for live longer pills. Cause I'm typing on this computer right? And as I'm doing it I'm moving closer to death, cause I have to die eventualy and time is passing. Therefor, spending my time at a computer I am bringing myself closer to death at the same time. Or some crap like that. I don't know, stop asking me these silly questions.

I've never read the Bible, but I pray for sinners. Besides, from that John passage you qouted we have no idea what sin not to pray for. And all he's saying that he is not saying that you have to pray for them. It's more of a they are not worthy of your prayer feeling I'm getting from that one. So I may as well pray for everyone right? And when you think about it, everything kinda leads to death, accept for live longer pills. Cause I'm typing on this computer right? And as I'm doing it I'm moving closer to death, cause I have to die eventualy and time is passing. Therefor, spending my time at a computer I am bringing myself closer to death at the same time. Or some crap like that. I don't know, stop asking me these silly questions.

the previous statement from John is that he is telling believers to pray for their brothers and sisters, and to help them in their sin, but that the sin of death isn't being covered in that statement. I think it might be the whole blasphamy of the holy spirt that Jesus warns will never be forgiven by the Spirit, but no clue.

The whole thing about sin leading to death isn't the physical death, its more of death from G-d, a spiritual death or seperation from G-d, which makes me think that the sin that is death is the blasphamy of the Spirit, which Jesus warns us can make the spirit abandon us, and since that Spirit is the connection to G-d for the mortal realm.....

living leads to death and sin - the bible has it all backwards

but what are those statements suppose to mean... and why would one claim sin leads to death ? all of us live with sin... through a path we each choose ^-^

living leads to death and sin - the bible has it all backwards

actually the bible says that you can't live without sinning, and that we all must die in the flesh. not that backwards, they only go further and talk about the future self, beyond the doorway of death.

There's a reason Christ delegated authority to men for the forgiveness of sin, and there's a reason they left successors.

but what are those statements suppose to mean... and why would one claim sin leads to death ? all of us live with sin... through a path we each choose ^-^
we all live with sin, but that doesn't mean that sin is over us anymore. we all are going to sin, and thats just a given, no one is perfect. what the bible says is that with the Holy Spirit we are no longer living in sin as long as we are guided by it. no matter the act, its not sin if you have permission from G-d, example being, "which of you will go down and lie to the prophets for me?" spoken by G-d to the angels.

but once you leave physical reality wouldn't time cease to exist as well as the future?

its easy to say life leads to sin and say sin leads to death, because life leads to death and you are bound to break a rule in life as there are so damn many of them - if you believe in sin that is

There's a reason Christ delegated authority to men for the forgiveness of sin, and there's a reason they left successors.

Jesus forgives sin, and he left his disciples to teach on in his stead, though I'd say that like only 1% of those that were meant to go out into the world left people to follow them. The day of Pentecost comes to mind, when all present were given the spirit so they could go out into the world and teach the good news. The holy spirit grants authority.

but once you leave physical reality wouldn't time cease to exist as well as the future?

its easy to say life leads to sin and say sin leads to death, because life leads to death and you are bound to break a rule in life as there are so damn many of them - if you believe in sin that is

time doesn't stop upon death, it just changes. Its all realitive to your understanding and such. Example, when you are bored, time is really slow, when you are busy and have your mind busy, time slips by fast. The concept of time is mearly a measurement of how long we have been doing something.

the death of sin isn't the physical death, its the death of the soul. or the removal from the Life, which is G-d. Sin is merely doing things that lead you down a path not of G-d. If you don't believe in sin, its my belief that it still believes in you, though none should ever judge another, for to do so is to judge ourselves, and then, once again, we are all equal. circles circles circels.

exactly we are all equal because we are all god

also - please tell me all you know about what spirit actually thinks of time outside of the physical world. and where did you learn this?

I forgot to add that I think time is not real - all there ever is , is the present moment. the future will never come and the past is and always will be just a memory of what used to be the now.

exactly we are all equal because we are all god

also - please tell me all you know about what spirit actually thinks of time outside of the physical world. and where did you learn this?

eh, I don't think we are all god, but we are all equal in the eyes of G-d.

I've run across a few verses in the bible that talk about what the after life is like, and its always shown in phrases of time, and such. Peter talking about his time in the 3rd level of Heaven, the discriptions about Shol in the old testament, even the book of Enoch, talking about spiritual beings being bound and forced to wait out the end of time.

I've learned these personal understandings from many different sources, over the course of years and years of searching.

I forgot to add that I think time is not real - all there ever is , is the present moment.

What? Time (strictly speaking) is a rate of change. Things change, so there is time.

Demonstrable fact.

Murder and praying to pagan Gods are the ultimate sins. In fact, a long long long long time ago, the old testament says that even if you killed out of self-defense, the family of the dead person has a right to kill you. Isn't religion fun!

if there is an end to time then time cannot be real

and dont you think those things you read were from teh human perspective of the concept of time because the abscence of time is too much to think about?

the point really is, can you trust at all the words of men?
I am no bagging religion but it has even been mentioned by members of the clergy that men have edited the bible and decided what did or did not go into it.
This is not a theological issue but one of the nature and corruptability of man.
Probably just some loophole to allow pious denunciations, after all if you ever speak to christians (god forbid) you'll find (in a alot of cases not all) they can be quite judgemental.

What? Time (strictly speaking) is a rate of change. Things change, so there is time.

Demonstrable fact.

you have to make up that rate - it's a concept not a fact

but again this just comes back to the imperfection of man.

the point really is, can you trust at all the words of men?
I am no bagging religion but it has even been mentioned by members of the clergy that men have edited the bible and decided what did or did not go into it.
This is not a theological issue but one of the nature and corruptability of man.
Probably just some loophole to allow pious denunciations, after all if you ever speak to christians (god forbid) you'll find (in a alot of cases not all) they can be quite judgemental.

man has edited all religious texts, though I feel that through ones own personal searching and understandings, you can find truth in even a lie. hard concept to see, but I still think its valid. Too many 'christians' are judgemental, cast judgement, and call everyone sinners burning in hell, and any other religion is blasphamy and they insult. all things that go counter to all of Jesus's message.

I've been told that I'm a sinner heathen simply because I tend to hang out more with 'sinners' then the 'saints'. To them I simply shrug and tell them to read the book they 'claim' to follow.

"you have to make up that rate - it's a concept not a fact"

No; I don't make anything up as I have no control over it.

Fact: I was born a child
Fact: I am now an adult

The space inbetween has been conveniently broken into little units called seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, and decades until I can describe my development in said units of time.

good man u are

"you have to make up that rate - it's a concept not a fact"

No; I don't make anything up as I have no control over it.

Fact: I was born a child
Fact: I am now an adult

The space inbetween has been conveniently broken into little units called seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, and decades until I can describe my development in said units of time.


so seconds, minutes, hours, days, blah blah blah were not made up by man? interesting theory you have.

I was reading the bible, I know it just causes trouble but, I ran across something that made me stop and think. I'm always hearing christians saying that 'all sin leads to death' 'pray for all sinners' 'we can be forgiven for all things' 'don't listen to that man, he is a blasphemr of G-d and I hate that'

the list goes on and on and on, yet I can never get people to back those statements with anything from the bible, except vauge statements taken out of context. So, I would like to disprove a couple of those statements.


'all sin leads to death'

"Every sin is wrong, but not all sin leads to death" 1st John 5:17

'pray for all sinners'

"But there is a sin that leads to death, and I'm not saying to pray for those that commit it." 1st John 5:16


just a few thoughts for christians that don't really know whats in the bible.
Heh, people that are too scared to write God, and have to write "G-d" are just stupid.

I see time as a religion. People say it exsists, though you cannot see it, feel. People build huge momuments to them, people study them, and there are tons of arguements over what it is and how one understands it. Next thing you know, there will be a pope of time.

Time is only a 'fact' because humans have built their lives around the concept of time. Do animals tell time, what is time to them? What is time to a fly? If you took two people, and put them into two rooms and had no clocks and such, would they be able to keep track of time?

Heh, people that are too scared to write God, and have to write "G-d" are just stupid.

its not fear, its respect and understanding. I feel that people that have to mock another person's religious and personal belief structure have no room to talk when it comes to ignorance and stupidity.

I am no bagging religion but it has even been mentioned by members of the clergy that men have edited the bible and decided what did or did not go into it.


Yah, some christian sects make that very clear. In fact the christian bible didn't come into existence until about 300 years after Jesus. As early as 325, jerome called for the burning of heretical texts - whatever they are - &ct.

It really shouldn't be looked at as authoratative at all in some respects.

Everyone's a sinner. Show me one person without any sin, it's absolutely ridiculous. We're humans after all. We're not perfect.

Sin leads to death? Well... last I checked everything leads to death, no one lives forever.

Time is a different thing. You can experience time. The sun rises, the sun sets, another rotation of the planet done, that's how time passes. How an animal tells time is something we don't know. If a fly would tell time then its system would be different to ours, since the lifespan of a fly is a bit shorter. But the basics could stay the same. One rotation of the planet around itself is one day; one rotation of the planet around its sun is one year. Time is surely not a religion.

As for the "pray for all sinners"... the first one I catch praying for me will have my boot up his ass.

Sin, schmin. Pfft.

I'll drink babies' blood out of the hallowed out skulls of nuns if I wanna! I ain't hurtin' nobody important.

Now that that is settled, I got me some virgins to torture.

I've been told that I'm a sinner heathen simply because I tend to hang out more with 'sinners' then the 'saints'. To them I simply shrug and tell them to read the book they 'claim' to follow.

Not stir up trouble, but remember to inform those who call ou a heathen because of who you hang out with to remember who Jesus sat with on many an occasion.

Besides, I'm not one of those judgemental Christians. I blieve in the God of Isac, his son Jesus, and the whole deal. I also believe that if you don't believe, you get the "pleasure" of the second death. :) But it is, and always has been, your choice. You wanna burn, be my guest. You wanna be saved, hey, I'll help ya out. Oh, and I do know that there's a LOT left outa the Bible.

Oh, and as for the subject of time. Time is relative to the observer, just like almost everything else in existance. Time measures change and is not specifically an object of any type. Something like space. It's there and it's not.

The sin that John makes reference to is the sin of not accepting Christ/shunning the teachings of God and the Bible. Because only by accepting Christ can we ever hope to shed our imperfection and enter Heaven. If we don't accept Christ, we can't lose that imperfection, and thus are sinners. We are born into sin. We can't escape it save by believing Christ came to die on the cross for us. Anyways, that is the sin John is referencing. Think about it logically and you'll understand why it is the one sin that truly leads to death.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23 (NIV)

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," Romans 3:23 (NIV)

As for the "pray for all sinners"... the first one I catch praying for me will have my boot up his ass.

What size? And how far? Are we talking just boot deep or are we talking surgical separation and amputation deep?

The sin that John makes reference to is the sin of not accepting Christ/shunning the teachings of God and the Bible. Because only by accepting Christ can we ever hope to shed our imperfection and enter Heaven. If we don't accept Christ, we can't lose that imperfection, and thus are sinners. We are born into sin. We can't escape it save by believing Christ came to die on the cross for us. Anyways, that is the sin John is referencing. Think about it logically and you'll understand why it is the one sin that truly leads to death.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23 (NIV)

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," Romans 3:23 (NIV)

so christians aren't supposed to pray for non-believers then? I would think that the sin is something else, since it is mentioned in a singular phrase, and Jesus tells us to pray for the non-believers. I'm still leaning towards the blasphomy of the holy spirit, since even Jesus said it was the only unforgiveable sin.

"so seconds, minutes, hours, days, blah blah blah were not made up by man? interesting theory you have."

I don't get what you're saying. Time is simply a rate of change - if things change, there is time. Things change; so time must exist. It's demonstrable fact. What you believe about demonstrable fact is immaterial. Something exists independent of our belief in it. Time exists; accept that.

Yah, some christian sects make that very clear. In fact the christian bible didn't come into existence until about 300 years after Jesus.

The canon of Scripture came into being at the Council of Rome in 389 under Pope Damasus I. The authority of the Bible, then, rests with the authority of the Church.

Some Christian sects recognize the Bible as a part of the Word, and thus a book of the religion, others (wrongly) see Christianity as a religion of the book (like Judaism).

so christians aren't supposed to pray for non-believers then? I would think that the sin is something else, since it is mentioned in a singular phrase, and Jesus tells us to pray for the non-believers. I'm still leaning towards the blasphomy of the holy spirit, since even Jesus said it was the only unforgiveable sin.

That's the same thing. And I never said that Christians aren't supposed to pray for non-believers. That's the funny thing about the Bible. you can't look at one verse and apply it as a standard to the whole Bible.

That's the same thing. And I never said that Christians aren't supposed to pray for non-believers. That's the funny thing about the Bible. you can't look at one verse and apply it as a standard to the whole Bible.

Didn't say I was apply it to a standard, I was making a statement about the bible's directions towards the way the Church is supposed to act and such. I am more curious about what the 'sin' mentioned as the sin of death is, I think its a specific sin, not just not believing.

the bible is filled with points, but no point in the bible is all defineing, save one. It is through faith all are saved.

Heh, people that are too scared to write God, and have to write "G-d" are just stupid.
I know that for Jewish people, if you write out the word "God" you're supposed to burn or bury or something whatever it was you wrote it on with a rabbi's help at a certain time of the year. That would be very inconvenient to replace your computer every 12 months.

so seconds, minutes, hours, days, blah blah blah were not made up by man? interesting theory you have.
Days were not, in the strictest since. All the other delinations were. However, they are just values to make the abstract usuable, time still exists.

I know that for Jewish people, if you write out the word "God" you're supposed to burn or bury or something whatever it was you wrote it on with a rabbi's help at a certain time of the year. That would be very inconvenient to replace your computer every 12 months.

its a jewish belief that if you write any name of G-d that you aren't supposed to do it completely unless its in religious texts, to prevent the name from being destroyed. It comes from the commandment to destroy all idols and anything that bears their names, but not to do so with the name of G-d.

Most jewish people feel that its ok to spell names of G-d on the internet, but to change it if you print it out. Around here I use the G-d out of respect and my own personal duty.

Jewish texts and such that are falling apart are either stored away, or buried in a certain spot in a jewish graveyard, in a holy fashion, to prevent disrespect and the like.

The wages of sin are death, but after taxes it's just sort of a tired feeling. :p

The wages of sin are death, but after taxes it's just sort of a tired feeling. :p

except for 2 for 1 sundays, gotta love the fried chicken, hee he hee

Guys, you can write out God anytime that you want. It isnt his name, its the job description. And isnt it a bit arrogant to think his shem hammephorash would be in english?

I've never read the Bible, but I pray for sinners.
I find this quite disturbing. How can you follow your faith without reading its holy scripture? I thought this kind of religious following died with the advent of common people being literate. :eek:

Guys, you can write out God anytime that you want. It isnt his name, its the job description. And isnt it a bit arrogant to think his shem hammephorash would be in english?

isn't it a bit ignorant to think that G-d doesn't care as long as its not written in hebrew or some other divine language that it doesn't count?

G-d, when used to label Sh-ddai or YHVH, is hyphenated in my understandings because its a title/name given to represent the Divine.


I find this quite disturbing. How can you follow your faith without reading its holy scripture? I thought this kind of religious following died with the advent of common people being literate. :eek:

I think prayer is needed, but so is an understanding of where prayer comes from. I rarely read the bible, only doing so when I feel compelled to, and normally I find that its better that way.

I think prayer is needed, but so is an understanding of where prayer comes from. I rarely read the bible, only doing so when I feel compelled to, and normally I find that its better that way.
Would you trust a lawyer who never read a legal brief? A doctor who never read an anatomy book? An actor who never read a script? Reading the Bible is kinda one of the most important things to do in Christianity.

Would you trust a lawyer who never read a legal brief? A doctor who never read an anatomy book? An actor who never read a script? Reading the Bible is kinda one of the most important things to do in Christianity.

would you rather have a lawyer that had to look everything up, or one that had already read it and knew it was there?
a doctor who didn't need a book there to do the operation, or one that had to prop it up on the instruments table?
an actor who could recite from memory, or one that had to hold the script and check it often?

reading the bible is not the most important, the Faith, and the growing of the spirit is the most important. to think the book is more important is to promot legalism, which is Jesus's bane.

would you rather have a lawyer that had to look everything up, or one that had already read it and knew it was there?
a doctor who didn't need a book there to do the operation, or one that had to prop it up on the instruments table?
an actor who could recite from memory, or one that had to hold the script and check it often?

reading the bible is not the most important, the Faith, and the growing of the spirit is the most important. to think the book is more important is to promot legalism, which is Jesus's bane.
But you haven't read it, have you? Certainly not the extent that the people above have in your examples. Can you recite the Bible from memory, like your actor? If so, I have no quarrel with you, but otherwise, you're being facetious.

How can you have faith in something you're ignorant of? If you don't read the Bible, you might as well make a stupidass thread about your own religion that you created that's loosely based on Buddhism, as long as you're going to just make stuff up. More a jibe at someone in another thread than you, but the point remains.

isn't it a bit ignorant to think that G-d doesn't care as long as its not written in hebrew or some other divine language that it doesn't count?
You get your name in one language. It does have no meaning if you can translate that name into different languages. A John is a John and not a Hans, even if it is derived from the same name and they both have their patron saints day on the same calendar day. On top of that, YHVH isnt even equivalent with God.

You get your name in one language. It does have no meaning if you can translate that name into different languages. A John is a John and not a Hans, even if it is derived from the same name and they both have their patron saints day on the same calendar day. On top of that, YHVH isnt even equivalent with God.
If your name is John, but people call you Bob, and you go by it, that's your name. It might not be your given name, but it's a name.

But you haven't read it, have you? Certainly not the extent that the people above have in your examples. Can you recite the Bible from memory, like your actor? If so, I have no quarrel with you, but otherwise, you're being facetious.

How can you have faith in something you're ignorant of? If you don't read the Bible, you might as well make a stupidass thread about your own religion that you created that's loosely based on Buddhism, as long as you're going to just make stuff up. More a jibe at someone in another thread than you, but the point remains.

I've read the bible many times over, was raised by a deacon of an open bible church, have like 5 different versions of the bible. I can't quote to bible, I use it in my own words, though thats all we currently have of the bible, a translation of a translation etc.

I have found that not matter how much a person reads the bible, it doesn't make them know or understand it better. Some of the worst christians I've meant could quote the bible off the top of their heads, and yet missed so much of the point.

I have faith in Christ, and his statement, He that seeks me, shall find me.

You get your name in one language. It does have no meaning if you can translate that name into different languages. A John is a John and not a Hans, even if it is derived from the same name and they both have their patron saints day on the same calendar day. On top of that, YHVH isnt even equivalent with God.

so if you had to do a report about the planet mars, and you talked about ares instead, you'd get a passing grade?

I've read the bible many times over, was raised by a deacon of an open bible church, have like 5 different versions of the bible. I can't quote to bible, I use it in my own words, though thats all we currently have of the bible, a translation of a translation etc.

I have found that not matter how much a person reads the bible, it doesn't make them know or understand it better. Some of the worst christians I've meant could quote the bible off the top of their heads, and yet missed so much of the point.

I have faith in Christ, and his statement, He that seeks me, shall find me.
The entire Bible? Including Leviticus, and the other "boring" ones? If a person reads the Bible with the intent of understanding it, they will. Same way with any book, you can push through a book to "finish it," or you can read it. There is a difference.

If your name is John, but people call you Bob, and you go by it, that's your name. It might not be your given name, but it's a name.
If i decree that my name John is holy and not to be written down i dont care if they write down Bob.

The entire Bible? Including Leviticus, and the other "boring" ones? If a person reads the Bible with the intent of understanding it, they will. Same way with any book, you can push through a book to "finish it," or you can read it. There is a difference.

I've read through it and I've studied it, and understood it. I've found the 'flaws' but understood that the bible was written by differnt people at different times, and based on different sources of information.

Jesus never teaches us to read the bible, and anytime that he talks about reading the scriptures, he isn't talking about anything that talks about himself.

its faith, its all about faith in Christainity.

If i decree that my name John is holy and not to be written down i dont care if they write down Bob.
God never wrote down His name. And you're not God. It doesn't matter what you would do if you were the Almighty, since you aren't.

so if you had to do a report about the planet mars, and you talked about ares instead, you'd get a passing grade?
Sorry, but your analogy doesnt work. Try another one. We are talking about a thing being forbidden and not the opposite.

If i decree that my name John is holy and not to be written down i dont care if they write down Bob.

how about you say, "my name is holy and not to be destroyed"

you think in such a limited way. When I talk about G-d, he is the god of all people, not just the hebrews.

I've read through it and I've studied it, and understood it. I've found the 'flaws' but understood that the bible was written by differnt people at different times, and based on different sources of information.

Jesus never teaches us to read the bible, and anytime that he talks about reading the scriptures, he isn't talking about anything that talks about himself.

its faith, its all about faith in Christainity.
Jesus isn't the only word of authority. Reading the Bible is a common theme in the New Testament, even if Jesus didn't say so Himself. Just because Jesus didn't say something, doesn't mean He didn't have an opinion on it. That's why He left others behind to continue what he started, but by no means finished.

"Every sin is wrong, but not all sin leads to death" 1st John 5:17

just a few thoughts for christians that don't really know whats in the bible.

Dude. That just sounds wrong. I couldn't get used to that... Is that NIV or something?

Here's the good ole KJV:

5:17 "All unrighteousness is a sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

Quite different, no? The first part, at least. I'll take my version.

Jesus isn't the only word of authority. Reading the Bible is a common theme in the New Testament, even if Jesus didn't say so Himself. Just because Jesus didn't say something, doesn't mean He didn't have an opinion on it. That's why He left others behind to continue what he started, but by no means finished.

the scipture that the new testament talks about isn't the new testament either. They are talking about the Holy texts of the time. Jesus taught us that the laws were a curse, and that faith freed us all. Why do you need more then that? Everything else that people build around that takes glory and understanding away from G-d and Jesus shouldn't be used.

God never wrote down His name. And you're not God. It doesn't matter what you would do if you were the Almighty, since you aren't.
Did i say i was God? If i make an analogy dont assume more than is needed.
God, btw, never wrote anything besides the mentekel.
What i was saying is that God, isnt the name for the entity we are talking about. In the Bible there is enough talk about other Gods. The word God isnt a name, it is a descriptive term about a higher being.

Did i say i was God? If i make an analogy dont assume more than is needed.
God, btw, never wrote anything besides the mentekel.
What i was saying is that God, isnt the name for the entity we are talking about. In the Bible there is enough talk about other Gods. The word God isnt a name, it is a descriptive term about a higher being.
When people pray, they pray to God. If praying is understood to be talking directly to God, which for every major Protestant sect it is, then God is the name given to the Almighty, whatever His real name may be.

Dude. That just sounds wrong. I couldn't get used to that... Is that NIV or something?

Here's the good ole KJV:

5:17 "All unrighteousness is a sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

Quite different, no? The first part, at least. I'll take my version.

still saying the same thing

everything wrong is a sin, and there is a sin that doesn't lead to death

just differnt sentance structure and such, same meaning. I just looked it up in like 6 different translations, and all of them said about the same thing.

how about you say, "my name is holy and not to be destroyed"

you think in such a limited way. When I talk about G-d, he is the god of all people, not just the hebrews.

I give up. You are entitled to believe in a small-minded god that will fry your brain if you write down what you perceive as his name, i certainly wont. But i still believe that, according Torah and Bible, he trusted the hebrews as his chosen people with his name.

When people pray, they pray to God. If praying is understood to be talking directly to God, which for every major Protestant sect it is, then God is the name given to the Almighty, whatever His real name may be.
Ok, but as i read it, only his real name is the most holy that isnt to be written out.

I give up. You are entitled to believe in a small-minded god that will fry your brain if you write down what you perceive as his name, i certainly wont. But i still believe that, according Torah and Bible, he trusted the hebrews as his chosen people with his name.

I don't believe in a small minded god, I believe in respecting G-d though. Just because you don't think that one has to honor him the way that I do, doesn't make me wrong. He trusted Moses with his holy name, and he trusted Abraham with a different one, both called holy, both completely different. If you read hebrew, they have dozens of names, 7 of the holies are always considered to be rewritten to prevent their use in wrong ways, and the rest are optionary.

First of all, let me say that I am not Christian. I do not believe in God nor do I believe there is such a thing as sin. I have my own beliefs about life after death, but I have studied Christianity a good part of my life and was raised in the church. Here is what I say about the Bible.

1.) They all say something different. Every translation says something in a different way based on the interpretation of the translator. If you want to read the Bible and really know what it says and means, learn Hebrew.

2.) The Bible was written by men. According to Christian thought, human beings are fallible. All of their accounts are not word for word what Jesus said. They were recorded years down the road long after Jesus was dead. These men wrote the Gospels from memory 20 years after the events happened. Why do you think Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are so different?They wrote what they thought the jist of it was, because they obviously didn't memorize every word that Jesus ever said. You are not reading the words of Christ, you are reading how these men, fallible human beings, remember what he said. Now, I don't doubt they got the general point right, but you can't take what they say literally. If you want to know how God wants you to live, ask him. If he doesn't answer...maybe he's not there.

First of all, let me say that I am not Christian. I do not believe in God nor do I believe there is such a thing as sin. I have my own beliefs about life after death, but I have studied Christianity a good part of my life and was raised in the church. Here is what I say about the Bible.

1.) They all say something different. Every translation says something in a different way based on the interpretation of the translator. If you want to read the Bible and really know what it says and means, learn Hebrew.

2.) The Bible was written by men. According to Christian thought, human beings are fallible. All of their accounts are not word for word what Jesus said. They were recorded years down the road long after Jesus was dead. These men wrote the Gospels from memory 20 years after the events happened. Why do you think Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are so different?They wrote what they thought the jist of it was, because they obviously didn't memorize every word that Jesus ever said. You are not reading the words of Christ, you are reading how these men, fallible human beings, remember what he said. Now, I don't doubt they got the general point right, but you can't take what they say literally. If you want to know how God wants you to live, ask him. If he doesn't answer...maybe he's not there.


1)I understand that concept very well, and have been studying hebrew lately, I even got a fresh english translation that was done by a rabbi. Not the same as the hebrew, but he didn't change all the names and such.

2)the bible isn't perfect, it was written by man, and as such it can't be taken as pure and divinely sent and 100% pure. I know many 'christians' that feel it is, but even Jesus said that the Satan had perverted the Torah, and so it shows that anything can be used by the Satan. Its through a personal conection that one finds the truth and the light. Its the world of G-d, the spirit world, not the world of the Satan, the mortal and dying world.

its not fear, its respect and understanding. I feel that people that have to mock another person's religious and personal belief structure have no room to talk when it comes to ignorance and stupidity.
Respect to what? A word? A word that was NEVER used in scripture (before it was translated). A word never spoken by ANY biblical figure. There is absolutely nothing to respect about it.

I mock satanists all the time. Their belief is based on supporting something which is, itself, trapped. Does this make me an idiot? If so then I guess I'll check in to the nearest Silvan Learning Center.

im sorry slinao but i think youve stumbled upon a passage of the bible that explains the catholic doctrine of venial and mortal sins. some sins are VENIAL, and you can pray for that person and do him some good. (for example when he is in purgatory being purged of his sinful nature so he can be pure in heaven) and some sins are MORTAL which mean that if unrepented they send you right to hell and we praying for a person to be relieved of that sin is useless.

all other explanations are really just protestant rearranging of passages that dont suit their version of christian theology (in the same vein, there are passages that catholics have to "rearrange" to make protestant theology wrong)

I'd rather punish sin than forgive it.

Respect to what? A word? A word that was NEVER used in scripture (before it was translated). A word never spoken by ANY biblical figure. There is absolutely nothing to respect about it.

I mock satanists all the time. Their belief is based on supporting something which is, itself, trapped. Does this make me an idiot? If so then I guess I'll check in to the nearest Silvan Learning Center.

respect to a word that was used, but the hebrews replaced with statements of yhvh, and such. Just because modern christian versions of the bible don't have the sacred names, and seem to just gloss everything over with a generic naming of Lord. Moses was given the name yhvh, and Abraham used Sh-ddai.

Read through the bit about the burning bush, though it will be paraphrased.

respect to a word that was used, but the hebrews replaced with statements of yhvh, and such. Just because modern christian versions of the bible don't have the sacred names, and seem to just gloss everything over with a generic naming of Lord. Moses was given the name yhvh, and Abraham used Sh-ddai.

Read through the bit about the burning bush, though it will be paraphrased.
The Hebrws did not replace the word "god". The word god was invented by Europeans pretty recently.
Also how does not fully spelling out someone's name show respect. If someone wrote my name as "S-an" I wouldn't feel that they showed me any respect, I would probably hit them on the head for being a dumbass.
Do you spell Jesus, J-sus? Or Mary, M-ry? Or Moses, M-ses? It looks a little sloppy/lazy to me, so really you are showing that you are too damn lazy to write the word God all the way out. In fact, you must not respect God at all then do you?