NationStates Jolt Archive

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?


I already did the military oath. :rolleyes:

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?


Maybe everyone can be compelled into military service for a few years too.

And women shouldnt have to do either.

And whats this claptrap about 'god' at the end? Are atheists and agnostics exempt from this oath?

Weren't you leaving?

And what's with the "under God" funnyness?

Am I still allowed to start foodfights?

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?

Why not cut to the chase and make military service mandatory? Seems to be what you're driving at, anyway. So help me, god.

Nope. Absolutely not. Military, yes. Governmental positions, yes. Law enforcement, almost certainly yes. Otherwise, there is absolutely no reasonable justification for this - if civilians wish to pledge allegiance it is a personal choice, not something they can or should be forced into doing.

Two other problems; Why only men? Are women incapable of upholding the constitution, or are they simply inferior? Second, although I hate to get into the religion thing again, there are plenty of American men who believe in either another God/other Gods, or don't believe in any.

Here's what they make newly minted citizens swear:

I hereby declare, on oath,

that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;

that I will support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;

that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law;

that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law;

that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and

that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

Seems rather authoritarian-like, don't you think?

Weren't you leaving?

And what's with the "under God" funnyness?


I'll post good ideas, dreams, etc. from time to time.

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?

Sounds good! It's a promise to a fictional entity which no one is obligated to keep.

And it's a promise to defend a piece of paper. Technically I could take this oath and sit back and watch while terrorists OMG INVADED TEH US. As long as I stopped them from doing something to copies of the Constitution.

Heh not even copies. The original. Well, I enjoy protecting old pieces of paper.

And here's what I swore when I enlisted

I, _______________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

What's wrong with females taking the oath too?

It's only a matter of time before females serve on the front lines, they already see combat actions in "non-combat" units.

What we really should swear to defend is not the constitution of the United States but the ideals, hopes and dreams it was founded on. The constitution can be perverted, our freedoms can be taken away by a corrupt administration, but the dream that is America can never truely die. That's what we should swear to defend.

Ideal Pledge:

Hey America you're so fine, you're so fine you blow my mind. Hey America.

I'll post good ideas, dreams, etc. from time to time.


Who dreams about making people say pledges?

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?

No.

Little problem with the First Amendment. Ironic, huh? You can't push such an oath because requiring such oaths would be unconstitutional.

Why not cut to the chase and make military service mandatory? Seems to be what you're driving at, anyway. So help me, god.


I believe that there should be universal service (not necessarily military).

Plenty of work for young people to be involved in that isn't military in nature, unless that's what they want.

I believe that if you don't do the service, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Am I still allowed to start foodfights?

*Throws a glob of guacamole at LG*

:D

I believe that there should be universal service (not necessarily military).

Plenty of work for young people to be involved in that isn't military in nature, unless that's what they want.

I believe that if you don't do the service, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Hmm, what other kinds of service are you talking about? This seems to be a rare disagreement I have with you :p

No.

Little problem with the First Amendment. Ironic, huh? You can't push such an oath because requiring such oaths would be unconstitutional.

They require military personnel to say "So Help Me God." No way around it.

Also, there's the Code of Conduct, which you are bound to by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Violate this, and you can be brought up on charges. It has "God" in it as well, and so far, no constitutional challenges.

U.S. Armed Forces Code of Conduct

I

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

II

I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

III

If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

IV

If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

V

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

VI

I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

requiring loyalty oaths of all citizens is creepy.
requiring them only for men is weird.

I'll post good ideas, dreams, etc. from time to time.

That doesn't explain this post or why you didn't keep your promise of leaving.

*Throws a glob of guacamole at LG*

:D

Ack! *sprays you with spray cheeze*

What we need is an oath of liberty, especially with all this jibberjabber about "freedom" coming out of the american government.

Something like:

I ______________ do solemnly swear, on pain of perjury that I will enjoy the liberties afforded to me by the United States of America and defend these liberties against all enemies, foreign and domestic.


Or a pledge to defend substantive due process.

Or the rule of law.

They require military personnel to say "So Help Me God." No way around it.

Also, there's the Code of Conduct, which you are bound to by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Violate this, and you can be brought up on charges. It has "God" in it as well, and so far, no constitutional challenges.

*snip*

Actually, the First Amendment problem is not simply the "so help me God" part.

You cannot require loyalty oaths of citizens. Period. End stop.

Who dreams about making people say pledges?

Obsessive-compulsives? People who wield no power in their day-to-day life? Brownshirts?

Take your pick...

That doesn't explain this post or why you didn't keep your promise of leaving.

I thought he was escorted out the door by some burly, Mod types. :p

I believe that there should be universal service (not necessarily military).

Plenty of work for young people to be involved in that isn't military in nature, unless that's what they want.

I believe that if you don't do the service, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Maybe people who refused compulsory slavery should be counted as 3/5 of a person for certain purposes? There is precedent, after all.

maybe people should only be allowed to vote if they pass conservatism tests.

And any who doesnt vote conservative should have their vote discounted and put in jail for perjuring themself in their conservatism test.

what is the point of forcing a pledge on people unless there is some sanction if they break it? Aside from the fact that requiring people to swear an oath implies that you don't actually trust them...

I already did the military oath. :rolleyes:
Me too ... twice, once when I enlisted and once when I was commissioned. The oath as an officer is binding until the day you die.

Obsessive-compulsives? People who wield no power in their day-to-day life? Brownshirts?

Take your pick...


Maybe wacky religious people? Kahta always expressed love for whittier-, and he's an avowed misogynist.

This whole "only males can pledge allegiance" thing reeks of that same rot, in my opinion.

I thought he was escorted out the door by some burly, Mod types. :p
I think we was delivered a stern warning.

Reminds me of Catch-22. Has anyone read it?

Hmm, what other kinds of service are you talking about? This seems to be a rare disagreement I have with you :p

Well, to get everyone to go along with it...

You recall that Clinton wanted to create a program to get scholarship money by doing public service (Americorps) so you wouldn't have to join the Army for scholarship money.

OK, same type of work (feeding the homeless, working in hospitals, etc). Or, if you're into the military, do that.

Sort of the idea that "if you're not willing to be a part of society, you don't get to vote".

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?

Um...no...

I am no one's bitch, not even my own country's.

Sort of the idea that "if you're not willing to be a part of society, you don't get to vote".



Ahhh, so you're a radical socialist!

I think we was delivered a stern warning.


I think his behavior problems resulted in a special warning by salusa -

something along the lines of "if you do anything else, we'll IP ban you and inform your ISP if you attempt to sneak into the site"

Sort of the idea that "if you're not willing to be a part of society, you don't get to vote".

Surely one of the best ways of showing that you are willing to be part of society is to vote?

I thought he was escorted out the door by some burly, Mod types. :p

Yeah, but in another incarnation. In this one he made a big fuss in moderation about how he was leaving the forums. So much for that :\

Thank 'god' I live in Canada if that ever happens.

What we need is an oath of liberty, especially with all this jibberjabber about "freedom" coming out of the american government.

Something like:

I ______________ do solemnly swear, on pain of perjury that I will enjoy the liberties afforded to me by the United States of America and defend these liberties against all enemies, foreign and domestic.


Or a pledge to defend substantive due process.

Or the rule of law.

I like that. I think that's better than mine.

That doesn't explain this post or why you didn't keep your promise of leaving.

I never promised to leave, I simply said I would stop RPing, and leave the option open of coming back.

Ahhh, so you're a radical socialist!

You know, there's a part of almost every political system that has some good to it...

Three words.

http://www.the-gateway.net/fun/suckthread.jpg

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?

You had me right up to the end.

Surely one of the best ways of showing that you are willing to be part of society is to vote?

I'm not so sure about that.

We had plenty of people in the last election who were motivated by something other than a sense of civic responsibility. We even had people who were promised crack in exchange for registering to vote, and more crack for voting.

Who dreams about making people say pledges?

I dream about a lot of things...

CIA agents trying to arrest me in my house
Delta Force watching me
Zombies with a resident evil type virus trying to kill me
Helicopter and spetznaz chasing me to kill/arrest me(I remember this in vivid detail, even though it was a few years ago)
Police trying to arrest me
FBI agents trying to obtain me for questioning


Next time I have a revelation (which is what I think these are), I'll post it, in as many details as I can remember. I am also going to start keeping a log-book which I'll write in every morning when I wake up, to look for any re-occuring patterns in my dreams, which could give me insight into how long it will be until the NWO cracks down.

I dream about a lot of things...

CIA agents trying to arrest me in my house
Delta Force watching me
Zombies with a resident evil type virus trying to kill me
Helicopter and spetznaz chasing me to kill/arrest me(I remember this in vivid detail, even though it was a few years ago)
Police trying to arrest me
FBI agents trying to obtain me for questioning


Next time I have a revelation (which is what I think these are), I'll post it, in as many details as I can remember. I am also going to start keeping a log-book which I'll write in every morning when I wake up, to look for any re-occuring patterns in my dreams, which could give me insight into how long it will be until the NWO cracks down.


The FBI tried to "obtain" me once.

I think his behavior problems resulted in a special warning by salusa -

something along the lines of "if you do anything else, we'll IP ban you and inform your ISP if you attempt to sneak into the site"

Yeah, that is what I was told.

The FBI tried to "obtain" me once.

I think I've probobly been reported to them by various people from NS.

Maybe everyone can be compelled into military service for a few years too.

And women shouldnt have to do either.

And whats this claptrap about 'god' at the end? Are atheists and agnostics exempt from this oath?

Or maybe all 'Americans' are Christian?

I wonder what the assertion is?

Or maybe all 'Americans' are Christian?

I wonder what the assertion is?

You'll note that "So help me God" is in every military oath. So far, I don't hear a constitutional challenge to that.

It seems trite but necessary to say that the First Amendment to our Constitution was designed to avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings. There is no mysticism in the American concept of the State or of the nature or origin of its authority. We set up government by consent of the governed, and the Bill of Rights denies those in power any legal opportunity to coerce that consent. Authority here is to be controlled by public opinion, not public opinion by authority.

...

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.

West Virginia State Bd. of Educ. v. Barnette (http://laws.findlaw.com/us/319/624.html ), 319 U.S. 624, 642 (1943).

Gee, sometimes the Supreme Court knows what it is talking about.

Or maybe all 'Americans' are Christian?

I wonder what the assertion is?

90% of Americans believe in some sort of God.

if its an oath then it needs to have some spiritual reference in it, otherwise its a pledge

90% of Americans believe in some sort of God.

So fucking what? It doesn't mean that EVERYBODY should be forced to read a fucking pledge that has "god" in it.

Fucking bullshit.

Three words.
Let's cut out the cute little forum-troll pictures, folks. Use the thousand words that they are worth instead.

Let's hear your opinion, not some random webmonkey's.

It seems trite but necessary to say that the First Amendment to our Constitution was designed to avoid these ends by avoiding these beginnings. There is no mysticism in the American concept of the State or of the nature or origin of its authority. We set up government by consent of the governed, and the Bill of Rights denies those in power any legal opportunity to coerce that consent. Authority here is to be controlled by public opinion, not public opinion by authority.

...

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.

West Virginia State Bd. of Educ. v. Barnette (http://laws.findlaw.com/us/319/624.html ), 319 U.S. 624, 642 (1943).

Gee, sometimes the Supreme Court knows what it is talking about.


The military, and the Federal Government, in its oaths, universally has the "So Help Me God" clause, SCOTUS notwithstanding.

You'll note that "So help me God" is in every military oath. So far, I don't hear a constitutional challenge to that.

Indeed. But, that doesn't make it right.

So fucking what? It doesn't mean that EVERYBODY should be forced to read a fucking pledge that has "god" in it.

Fucking bullshit.
That language, when used in a thread largely devoid of such, is pretty much begging for violent response. Knock it off, Potaria.

~ Frisbeeteria ~
NationStates Forum Moderator

Indeed. But, that doesn't make it right.
I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that the silence is deafening.

Alright, I will admit that I got far ahead of myself. It's infuriating when one says such things, you know.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that the silence is deafening.
Truth is that most people who don't believe in a god couldn't care less. It's just empty words for us and might as well.

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?

Well, I did follow you up to the " so help me god" part. However, I will still support and defend the constitution in any way I can.

90% of Americans believe in some sort of God.

First: you realise that a massive amount of "Americans" live below the Texas border, yes? One assumes you are simply misusing the word 'American'.

Second: there is no evidence to prove such a figure. Even Census figures could only show how many people CLAIM to believe in God, or are assumed to believe in God.

Having worked in Market Research, I have seen examples of WHY such figures are skewed.

Truth is that most people who don't believe in a god couldn't care less. It's just empty words for us and might as well.

Well, if you're enlisting in the Army, suing them for the contents of the oath is probably the last thing on your mind...

Well, to get everyone to go along with it...

You recall that Clinton wanted to create a program to get scholarship money by doing public service (Americorps) so you wouldn't have to join the Army for scholarship money.

OK, same type of work (feeding the homeless, working in hospitals, etc). Or, if you're into the military, do that.

Sort of the idea that "if you're not willing to be a part of society, you don't get to vote".

Ah, not a bad idea, but I prefer the voluntary version myself. Generally, this stems from my belief that the government should barely exist, and only for defense and law and order, really; ergo, society gets left up to the individual. (Ideally there'd be no need for a vote anyway, because there'd be no ability for a government to regulate it. *Edit; by 'it', I mean society, not voting.).

Don't mind a charitable kind of organization being set up to reward people highly for such things though (Indeed it sounds like a very positive idea.).

The military, and the Federal Government, in its oaths, universally has the "So Help Me God" clause, SCOTUS notwithstanding.

For the second time:

It. Is. The. Oath. Itself. Not. The. "So Help Me God." That. Is. Unconstitutional.

Capiche?

I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying that the silence is deafening.

I think the Armed Forces and Government are somehow given a special dispensation to be biased towards a given religion.

Historical precedent?

I don't know. :(

I dream about a lot of things...

CIA agents trying to arrest me in my house
Delta Force watching me
Zombies with a resident evil type virus trying to kill me
Helicopter and spetznaz chasing me to kill/arrest me(I remember this in vivid detail, even though it was a few years ago)
Police trying to arrest me
FBI agents trying to obtain me for questioning


Next time I have a revelation (which is what I think these are), I'll post it, in as many details as I can remember. I am also going to start keeping a log-book which I'll write in every morning when I wake up, to look for any re-occuring patterns in my dreams, which could give me insight into how long it will be until the NWO cracks down.

I had a lovely dream last night where I was in london (i think, i surmise this because the pay phones were denominated in pounds sterling and I only had dollars, and my mobile phone wouldnt work)

where it was after some sort of catastrophe and I was in a skyscraper with lots of people who I assume were part of some tour, and we all had 45 calibre revolvers and I was winning by a large margin shooting them. I recall specifically surprising one woman and making her give me her ammo (we only had 30 rounds each).

For the second time:

It. Is. The. Oath. Itself. Not. The. "So Help Me God." That. Is. Unconstitutional.

Capiche?

If it's unconstitutional, then why do people keep doing the oath?

You'll note that "So help me God" is in every military oath. So far, I don't hear a constitutional challenge to that.

It is also optional.

See, e.g., AR 601-280 "The Army Retention Program," (http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r601_280.pdf) Appendix D Paragraph 2k:

k. Oath of enlistment/reenlistment. Verify with soldier to determine
if he or she prefers to "swear" or "affirm." The phrase, "so
help me God" may be deleted for soldiers electing to "affirm." For
soldiers electing to "affirm," prepare a 3- by 5-inch card, editing the
oath, for use by the administering officer.

It is also optional.

See, e.g., AR 601-280 "The Army Retention Program," (http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r601_280.pdf) Appendix D Paragraph 2k:

k. Oath of enlistment/reenlistment. Verify with soldier to determine
if he or she prefers to "swear" or "affirm." The phrase, "so
help me God" may be deleted for soldiers electing to "affirm." For
soldiers electing to "affirm," prepare a 3- by 5-inch card, editing the
oath, for use by the administering officer.

I recall some recruits being told to "shut up and repeat after me".

First: you realise that a massive amount of "Americans" live below the Texas border, yes? One assumes you are simply misusing the word 'American'.

Second: there is no evidence to prove such a figure. Even Census figures could only show how many people CLAIM to believe in God, or are assumed to believe in God.

Having worked in Market Research, I have seen examples of WHY such figures are skewed.


It is not a misuse of the word "americans" when what is meant is "citizens of the united states of america" and the context makes it perfectly clear, as was the case above.

If it's unconstitutional, then why do people keep doing the oath?


:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

No loyalty oath may be required of citizens.

No right may be contingent on a loyalty oath.

I recall some recruits being told to "shut up and repeat after me".

Then some idiot violated the Constitution and military regulations.

I am shocked, shocked that that kind of thing would go on in the military. :p

I recall some recruits being told to "shut up and repeat after me".



I think the key issue with a religious clause lies in that military service really isnt compulsory, and a recruit it can be assumed has ample opportunity to consider the wording of the oath before he or she decides to enlist.

If some capable potential soldiers are turned off from military duty because they refuse to swear something to god, the military is the party which stands to lose the most anyhow.

Here's what they make newly minted citizens swear:

I hereby declare, on oath,

that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;

that I will support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same;

that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law;

that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law;

that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and

that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.
I'm glad that I was born with dual canadian-american citizenship.

And aside from that, once you're a canadian citizen, you're always a canadian. They don't care if you yell and say you renounce your citizenship. You're always canadian in the eyes of the government. :)

It is not a misuse of the word "americans" when what is meant is "citizens of the united states of america" and the context makes it perfectly clear, as was the case above.

Actually "90% of Americans believe in some sort of God" bears no real implication that 'Americans" means "Citizens of the United States of America".

Also - aside from national arrogance, what is the erason for such an assertion?

The whole landmass is named America - not just the bit protected by the US Constitution.

If it's unconstitutional, then why do people keep doing the oath?

Being 'unconstitutional' doesn't mean a thing is not done... either by the 'people', or by their 'government'.

Then some idiot violated the Constitution and military regulations.

I am shocked, shocked that that kind of thing would go on in the military. :p

Well, they have gambling, too...

Actually "90% of Americans believe in some sort of God" bears no real implication that 'Americans" means "Citizens of the United States of America".

Also - aside from national arrogance, what is the erason for such an assertion?

The whole landmass is named America - not just the bit protected by the US Constitution.


No No you're right

This thread is about people in guatemala and whether or not it is constitutional under the US constitution to make the people of bolivia and san salvador swear allegiance, by god, to the united states.

:rolleyes:

And The landmass is named North America and South America. Or "The Americas"

Only in rare cases where the context made it absolutely clear would "Americans" be considered to be in reference to "people from either north america or south america."

No No you're right

This thread is about people in guatemala and whether or not it is constitutional under the US constitution to make the people of bolivia and san salvador swear allegiance, by god, to the united states.

:rolleyes:

And The landmass is named North America and South America. Or "The Americas"

Only in rare cases where the context made it absolutely clear would "Americans" be considered to be in reference to "people from either north america or south america."

You are both off on a side point.

The "90% of Americans believe in God" figure is bogus -- which was Grave-n-idle's real point.

I'm glad that I was born with dual canadian-american citizenship.

And aside from that, once you're a canadian citizen, you're always a canadian. They don't care if you yell and say you renounce your citizenship. You're always canadian in the eyes of the government. :)

Isn't it great? I love being Canadian. We're so lucky to be free.

Isn't it great? I love being Canadian. We're so lucky to be free.


You really truly are.

Isn't it great? I love being Canadian. We're so lucky to be free.

As an American, I feel deprived because my fellow Americans would heap the scorn of political correctness upon me if I was to beat a seal to death - a freedom that Canadians take for granted.

The military, and the Federal Government, in its oaths, universally has the "So Help Me God" clause, SCOTUS notwithstanding.

Except for the oath the President takes. You know, the ONLY oath that is actually written out in the Constitution?

Isn't it great? I love being Canadian. We're so lucky to be free.

I can't wait to finish medical school and residency--so I can emigrate to Canada :)

For the second time:

It. Is. The. Oath. Itself. Not. The. "So Help Me God." That. Is. Unconstitutional.

Capiche?

I hate to break it to everyone, but the "so help me god" isn't mandatory in the Presidental oath. It's added by each president. Wanna leave it out? Fine.

I wouldn't join the military, so I can't comment there. :)

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

No loyalty oath may be required of citizens.

No right may be contingent on a loyalty oath.
you must have such a headache now from all that banging!

as americans the government is there for US we are not there for the government. loyalty oaths are unamerican.


the military thing is different since soldiers are in a special class of people with limited rights while they serve.

I, [your name here], do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the Constitution, according to the laws and ideals set forth by the Constitution. So help me God.

Its based off the oath that presidents take (and do not follow), and that all members of the military must take to be inducted.

What do you think?

Absolutely not.

Someone in this thread earlier brought up the oath for newly naturalized citizens. However, I sure didn't choose to be born in Torrance, California. (If I could have chosen my place of birth, it would have been Canada or Sweden. :) )

Because I was not born in the U.S. voluntarily, and because the First Amendment deprives the government of the right to cram loyalty oaths down my throat (as discussed by other posters on this thread), I think this is a really, really bad idea. Besides, invariably the government will interpret "obeying the Constitution" as "going along with present policies."

Let me ask you Caelta, if the Constitution was "interpreted" by a diehard Democratic atheist, would you be so willing to obey it at the drop of a hat? Or only if the Constitution was "interpreted" by a diehard Calvinist? Because this is what this oath would inevitably boil down to--the Constitution is a fairly malleable document, as any Supreme Court justice would tell you. Otherwise, every SCOTUS ruling would be unanimous.