NationStates Jolt Archive

People can reduce almost anything down to supply and demand, and the free-market capitalist system is incredibly adept at putting price tags on things we never would have thought of buying or selling before. However, capitalism is just a tool...and we can limit its scope if we so wish.

So what things do you think should never come with a price tag? What things should NOT become commodities to be exchanged for money?

Edit: Don't talk about things like goods and services you believe should be subsidised by taxes (like heath care, education and so on). These things still have a price tag. Talk about things that should never have a cost...not a subsidised cost...NO COST.

DOUBLE EDIT: Please, please, please, take your debate about public versus privately funded goods and services elsewhere. This is not a debate about who should pay for healthcare or education.

I don't think we should ever have to pay for air. Now, I'll qualify that. I'm not talking about oxygen in tanks or other containers. Just air. Clean air, you ask? Polluted air?

Wait, this is getting more complicated.

I don't think we should have to pay for CLEAN AIR. Ah...but that then gets us into the problem of 'should automobiles be banned' and so on...

So, I'll restrict this to areas that are not so heavily polluted. Living in a small town in a rural area, I believe that we should never put a price tag on air.

Yikes.

Nope, here is my final answer:

AIR SHOULD NOT BECOME A PRIVATE COMMODITY SOLD TO CONSUMERS EITHER BY A PUBLIC OR PRIVATE CORPORATION.

Rainwater. And they have tried to privatize it in Bolivia. I guess all of you know about the case.

Sex :p

Air, Life, Education, Medical care, including dental.

Without these things, one cannot live. You might argue that a right to food and water should never come with a price tag, and to an extent, I'd agree with you. A basic amount of food and water should come with no price tag, as in many countries (with welfare) it doesn't have one.

The biggest factor which DOES in some places come with a price tag is medical care. If we as a society cannot have the heart to look after the most unfortunate of our citizens, then what does that say about us as human beings?

If a child from a poor family has to die from cancer because they cannot afford readiological or chemological treatments, while others sit on a beach sipping cocktails, then we as a society should not deign to call ourselves "human" let alone evolved.

Please excuse my poor grammar, I've had a few...

Sex :p
Wooot? It always come with a price tag.

Rainwater. And they have tried to privatize it in Bolivia. I guess all of you know about the case.
Don't assume that all people here even know where Bolivia is :D

Wasn't this a major catalyst to the ousting of the Bolivian government a couple of months back?

NS2 :p

I agree with kusarii, health care would be the biggest one.

Rainwater. And they have tried to privatize it in Bolivia. I guess all of you know about the case.

I know of bolivia, but nothing of privitisation of rain water? wtf?

Air, Life, Education, Medical care, including dental.


Unfortunately for some (but happily for me, since I'm a teacher and get paid to be one), education, medical care and dental care DO and SHOULD come with a price tag. You are saying that they should be provided free of cost to people, but that would still be funded through tax dollars. (I agree, by the way).

We need to stick to things that should never, ever become tradeable commodities. Period. No price tag....not just subsidised costs...no cost.

Air, Life, Education, Medical care, including dental.

Without these things, one cannot live. You might argue that a right to food and water should never come with a price tag, and to an extent, I'd agree with you. A basic amount of food and water should come with no price tag, as in many countries (with welfare) it doesn't have one.

The biggest factor which DOES in some places come with a price tag is medical care. If we as a society cannot have the heart to look after the most unfortunate of our citizens, then what does that say about us as human beings?

If a child from a poor family has to die from cancer because they cannot afford readiological or chemological treatments, while others sit on a beach sipping cocktails, then we as a society should not deign to call ourselves "human" let alone evolved.

Please excuse my poor grammar, I've had a few...

Insuring children (or "minors" legally) is one thing; insuring their lazy (YES, libs, SOME of them are lazy) unemployed parents is another.

We have to be kind enough to those who DESERVE the support of society while inspiring/hastening the (simply) lazy to get to work.

Air water education and life.

I know of bolivia, but nothing of privitisation of rain water? wtf?

It is a rapidly growing left wing urban legend. It did not happen, and the government did not collapse. There were massive protests about water rights, but nothing on charging fro rainwater.

What should never be charged for: Friendship.

People can reduce almost anything down to supply and demand, and the free-market capitalist system is incredibly adept at putting price tags on things we never would have thought of buying or selling before. However, capitalism is just a tool...and we can limit its scope if we so wish.

So what things do you think should never come with a price tag? What things should NOT become commodities to be exchanged for money?
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

The basic commodities needed to survive (food, water, air, a place to sleep) should be totally free, but sub-standard to the point that no one would sponge off of the government forever.

There should be no "liberty tax." Taxes should be charged on income alone, or at least when we use the service that we're paying for (ensuring that a program is neither underfunded or overfunded). There should not be a sales tax. Why should the government get a 5% or 10% cut out of every deal made? They aren't trying to improve sales. Why should there be a property tax? They aren't maintaining anyone's property.

And on the pursuit of happiness-no one should have to pay for equality, a good education, or a safe neighborhood to live in.

Air water education and life.
How are you going to not attach a price tag to education? You need to pay the teachers, purchase supplies, provide a space, develop educational tools and so on. SUBSIDISED education is something entirely different.

Don't assume that all people here even know where Bolivia is :D

Wasn't this a major catalyst to the ousting of the Bolivian government a couple of months back?
hmm...it happened some time ago and it did indeed lead to political reforms but I believe that these latest problems are just reforming problems. The president wanted to resign but they didn't let him go. :)

Anything I want ;)

Unfortunately for some (but happily for me, since I'm a teacher and get paid to be one), education, medical care and dental care DO and SHOULD come with a price tag. You are saying that they should be provided free of cost to people, but that would still be funded through tax dollars. (I agree, by the way).

We need to stick to things that should never, ever become tradeable commodities. Period. No price tag....not just subsidised costs...no cost.

I'm not sure I understand, I don't know how taxes are organised in the US exactly, but here in the UK we pay National Insurance Contributions.

When you work you pay these dues, and when you don't work, they help to support you. Provided you are deemed eligable, ironically the way the system currently works, people who have never contributed see more of a return from the benefits system than those who find themselves in genuine difficulty.

To me, this says that the system needs to be looked at seriously, and re-worked. That however belies the fact that education and healthcare should be universally available.

I'm not talking about welfare for those out of work here people. While I do think that is a good thing it SHOULD be limited to a maximum of a few months no matter the circumstances.

Love, obviously...DERRRR!!! lol

peaches

It is a rapidly growing left wing urban legend. It did not happen, and the government did not collapse. There were massive protests about water rights, but nothing on charging fro rainwater.

What should never be charged for: Friendship.
Right. It wasn't really over rain water...it was over a WTO requirement that Bolivia not subsidise the water supply. The most public resistance to this was in Cochabamba. There were some pretty violent clashes. They were calling for the resignation of the president...but I lost track of what happened after that.

Everything! Yay anarchy!

How are you going to not attach a price tag to education? You need to pay the teachers, purchase supplies, provide a space, develop educational tools and so on. SUBSIDISED education is something entirely different.


Ah, I see what you're going for here, sorry I misunderstood your original post.

On something that should require no funding at all, arguably, clean air and water.

Something that I think up to a certain level that should come without a price tag is death. It may suprise you but in the UK, due to house prices spiraling out of control, those who benefit from the will of a loved one are regularly required to pay 40% tax on that which is left to them. While I agree that holdings above say £1 million should be taxed, I do not beleive that anything below that marker should have a price tag attatched to it.

I'm not sure I understand, I don't know how taxes are organised in the US exactly, but here in the UK we pay National Insurance Contributions.
Please look at my location and refrain from insulting me with a nationality I do not belong to:).

What you are not understanding is that regardles of WHO pays for health care or education etc...those services STILL COME WITH A COST. If you can explain to me how you would provide ANY of those services, without a cent being spent, either in tax money, or in private funds, then you could possibly say those things should not come with a price tag. Again, we're not talking about subsidised costs. NO COST. What should have NO COST.

Edit: just read the above post, I see you get it:).

It is a rapidly growing left wing urban legend. It did not happen, and the government did not collapse. There were massive protests about water rights, but nothing on charging fro rainwater.

What should never be charged for: Friendship.
Eh? There are several documentaries made of the incident. World bank advised Bolivian government to privatize water. (no problem there) But they were just a little bit too moneyhungry. Collecting rain water on rooftop tanks became illegal. Water was more expensive than food.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/stories/bolivia/leasing.html
http://www.tradejusticeusa.org/issues/debt/unfair_trade.htm

How are you going to not attach a price tag to education? You need to pay the teachers, purchase supplies, provide a space, develop educational tools and so on. SUBSIDISED education is something entirely different.


In a sence your right, education is impossible without funding. What was implied here is FAPE (free adequate public education) money should not be an object in the amount of education a person get wether they are top of the class or a future McDonalds employee they should have free acess to the best possible education no matter their Cognative or monetary standing.

Well, I'm glad to see some of the things I was thinking of have already been posted, but I'll go ahead and make a short list of my top five anyway! :)

5. Smiles
4. Hugs
3. Kisses
2. Friendship
1. Love

Yes, I realize that they all do come at some sort of cost - but I'm pretty sure that the lovely Sinuhue was speaking of financial rather than emotional fees. ;)

In a sence your right, education is impossible without funding. What was implied here is FAPE (free adequate public education) money should not be an object in the amount of education a person get wether they are top of the class or a future McDonalds employee they should have free acess to the best possible education no matter their Cognative or monetary standing.
I get that, and support it, but it has nothing to do with the premise of this thread. :fluffle:

5. Smiles
4. Hugs
3. Kisses
2. Friendship
1. Love




Amen, no argument here.

I get that, and support it, but it has nothing to do with the premise of this thread. :fluffle:


Oh but it does, the fact that educational opportunities are better in richer areas is proof that money has become the biggest influence on what type of education you get. Making it something that /should not/ but /does/ have a price tag.

Please look at my location and refrain from insulting me with a nationality I do not belong to:).

What you are not understanding is that regardles of WHO pays for health care or education etc...those services STILL COME WITH A COST. If you can explain to me how you would provide ANY of those services, without a cent being spent, either in tax money, or in private funds, then you could possibly say those things should not come with a price tag. Again, we're not talking about subsidised costs. NO COST. What should have NO COST.

Edit: just read the above post, I see you get it:).


Sorry, generalisation, I see dollars I think american. Very sorry :p

Oh but it does, the fact that educational opportunities are better in richer areas is proof that money has become the biggest influence on what type of education you get. Making it something that /should not/ but /does/ have a price tag.
Ok, being deliberately obtuse, even when I have outlined the premise is not going to get you any fluffles!

Unless you can explain to me how education could be provided with NO COST (not subsidised, but NO COST), then you need to argue this in a different thread.

Sorry, generalisation, I see dollars I think american. Very sorry :p
I shall forgive the slight to my honour:).

Insuring children (or "minors" legally) is one thing; insuring their lazy (YES, libs, SOME of them are lazy) unemployed parents is another.
People often die as a result of having poor healthcare or none. I once worked with a man at Wal-Mart, who had a job, but his healthcare only covered emergencies, not preventative healthcare. (No checkups) The people who oppose this are simply uppermiddleclass or upperclass people who don't want to bear the burden of it. You delude yourselves into thinking it's cheap, when it's not. While working full-time at Wal-Mart, another part-time job, and two daughters, he did not have the time to go out and get a better job, and he could not afford healthcare.

We have to be kind enough to those who DESERVE the support of society while inspiring/hastening the (simply) lazy to get to work.
This "inspiring them to work through suffering" is very Stalinist.

Amen, no argument here.
...of course, I also think we should have free access to key lime pie... after all, the world would be a better place if we all had free key lime pie!

*shakes fist at the corporate/government conspiracy to make people pay for key lime pie...*

They can take my land, they can take my hair, but they'll never take... my sheeeep!!!

... err... I mean... my key lime pie.

I'm not sure I understand, I don't know how taxes are organised in the US exactly, but here in the UK we pay National Insurance Contributions.

When you work you pay these dues, and when you don't work, they help to support you. Provided you are deemed eligable, ironically the way the system currently works, people who have never contributed see more of a return from the benefits system than those who find themselves in genuine difficulty.

To me, this says that the system needs to be looked at seriously, and re-worked. That however belies the fact that education and healthcare should be universally available.
We have the same system, called "Social Security." Except the way it works is that you have to pay enough into the system to be eligible. Not just everyone gets money. You have to have worked for several years in your life.

Well, I'm glad to see some of the things I was thinking of have already been posted, but I'll go ahead and make a short list of my top five anyway! :)

5. Smiles
4. Hugs
3. Kisses
2. Friendship
1. Love
3, 4, and 5 suggest that prostitution should be illegal. Fuck that!

We have the same system, called "Social Security." Except the way it works is that you have to pay enough into the system to be eligible. Not just everyone gets money. You have to have worked for several years in your life.

That is the way things are beginning to work here, of a fashion.

You see, if you have worked, you are discriminated against if you find employment again, ie they say you haven't worked enough since the last time you were unemployed.

If you have never held a job however, the case is different.

Lamborghinis.
'Cause free is about the only way possible I'll ever be able to afford to own one.

I'll ask everyone to please read my double edit on the first post before continuing any further discussion on public versus private funding of healthcare or other social services.


That being said, another thing I believe should never come with a price tag is the genes of living things (unless altered in some way). Some corporations are actually trying to get patents to the genes of indigenous peoples, and to certain plants and animals. AND being awarded them. :( Meaning, a strain of maize your people have been growing for thousands of years now no longer belongs to you, but to the company owning the 'patent'.

Ok, being deliberately obtuse, even when I have outlined the premise is not going to get you any fluffles!

Unless you can explain to me how education could be provided with NO COST (not subsidised, but NO COST), then you need to argue this in a different thread.

Education cannot be provided without subsidies and shouldn't that would cause allot of trouble for many the student. I see wehre you are comming from and that this was not your intent for this thread, but I have done nothing but state my opinion on what I thought was the intent of this thread, in no way did I intend to offend you and I'll end this path of discussion, thanks for the comments you made on it tho, I realy was a bit broad with my first statement.

I probably won't catch your response since I must sign off to administer a test in five minutes. Have an excelent day.

3, 4, and 5 suggest that prostitution should be illegal. Fuck that!
I never said sex - though on a personal level I might argue that.

I don't know what kind of a sick bugger wants to hug, let alone kiss a hooker after shes been using her mouth as a vacuum cleaner all night - but hey, whatever rubs your ducky. Also, I'm pretty sure the only smiles you get from them are fake - so I suppose they don't have to be counted. Keep on humpin happy! ;)

Education cannot be provided without subsidies and shouldn't that would cause allot of trouble for many the student. I see wehre you are comming from and that this was not your intent for this thread, but I have done nothing but state my opinion on what I thought was the intent of this thread, in no way did I intend to offend you and I'll end this path of discussion, thanks for the comments you made on it tho, I realy was a bit broad with my first statement.

I probably won't catch your response since I must sign off to administer a test in five minutes. Have an excelent day.You too. And thanks for respecting my wishes to keep this thread somewhat on track:).

Public toilets.

I had to use one urgently this afternoon, and I didn't have change, and neither did the toilet lady. So I just passed her a ringgit which the proper price was 10 cents. :(

sunshine and wind

i look forward to the day when i can pump a bit of water out of my well and use my solar or wind generator to seperate it into hydrogen and oxygen to power my car "for free"

if that day ever comes they are sure to try to tax my sunshine.

i also find it outrageous that someone could own the rights to someone ELSES genes.

Nose hairs... I firmly believe they should never be a market for nose hairs... or little toes for that matter.

How about election campaigns? Eliminate the need to buy TV and radio air time and advertizements in newspapers and magazines and it will make politicians less dependant on contributors who are pushing their own agenda.

How about election campaigns? Eliminate the need to buy TV and radio air time and advertizements in newspapers and magazines and it will make politicians less dependant on contributors who are pushing their own agenda.

Well, I do not know about you, but where I live there are FAR too many ads as it is, making them free only makes it worse for everyone.

But then again I could have a little toe collection and pay bounty hunters to search out and bring me rare and interesting little toes...

Well, I do not know about you, but where I live there are FAR too many ads as it is, making them free only makes it worse for everyone.
Everything's a trade off. I'd endure a few extra ads in exchange for a more honest government.

and I would create a slick and efficent little toe black Market... which I would monopolize, in which Mr. Moneybags would give me 200 dollars for passing go...

Well, I'm glad to see some of the things I was thinking of have already been posted, but I'll go ahead and make a short list of my top five anyway! :)

5. Smiles
4. Hugs
3. Kisses
2. Friendship
1. Love

Yes, I realize that they all do come at some sort of cost - but I'm pretty sure that the lovely Sinuhue was speaking of financial rather than emotional fees. ;)

Nuff said, even mentions lovely Sinhue.

Sunshine, air, religion, freedom of speech