NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html

read this and weep.

http://www.cairco.org/econ/econ.html

read this and weep.
I take it you are against illegal immigration?

Great solution: legalise it all ;)

the problems would still exist. you can make everyone legal, and they will still send money to their country, they will still demand for us to teach in their language, they will still refuse to even attempt to assimilate to our countrys ways, and they still will attempt to shape society in a way so that they are "the underdog". and you know what else, THE POPULATION WILL GET TO DAMN LARGE.

sinahue- people dont get arrested for being illegal here.

The sad thing is that you're 100% correct... If you ever decide to live in the Rio Grande Valley, you'll see it for yourself. So many Mexican immigrants take advantage of the system that it's not even funny. And you know what? They still refuse to learn English. They're obnoxious about it, too.

The sad thing is that you're 100% correct... If you ever decide to live in the Rio Grande Valley, you'll see it for yourself. So many Mexican immigrants take advantage of the system that it's not even funny. And you know what? They still refuse to learn English. They're obnoxious about it, too.
agreed . the DMV here has manuals in 13 languages. notice the street signs are in ENGLISH though.

the problems would still exist. you can make everyone legal, and they will still send money to their country, they will still demand for us to teach in their language, they will still refuse to even attempt to assimilate to our countrys ways, and they still will attempt to shape society in a way so that they are "the underdog". and you know what else, THE POPULATION WILL GET TO DAMN LARGE.

sinahue- people dont get arrested for being illegal here.
Sorry...none of the above do I consider to be problems, but that's just me. Populations shift and change, and so do countries (especially new, immigrant countries like ours). I rather like it. If I didn't, I'd be yelling at you ALL to get off my land:). But I don't, cuz I loves ya!

Shit. The main language at the DMV in Brownsville is SPANISH. Fucking Spanish!

Like I've said before, I'm all for globalization. However, it needs to be eased in, and in the meantime, people shouldn't be trampled like this. Would Mexicans like it if we did the same to their country? I think not.

agreed . the DMV here has manuals in 13 languages. notice the street signs are in ENGLISH though.
Darn shame. They should change those signs then.

You all act as though we've all been here the whole time, and that the language of the land of the United States has always been English. Maybe we should all start speaking Iroquois.

Too bad the Indians didn't provide us all with visas.

You all act as though we've all been here the whole time, and that the language of the land of the United States has always been English. Maybe we should all start speaking Iroquois.

Why not Commanche? Come on, you know you want to!

You all act as though we've all been here the whole time, and that the language of the land of the United States has always been English. Maybe we should all start speaking Iroquois.

Damn you, don't type so fast. Now everyone thinks I'm a copycat. :p

Shit. The main language at the DMV in Brownsville is SPANISH. Fucking Spanish!

Like I've said before, I'm all for globalization. However, it needs to be eased in, and in the meantime, people shouldn't be trampled like this. Would Mexicans like it if we did the same to their country? I think not.
I'm sure they'd love a huge influx of gringos actually...they think you're hot:) And English is kind of exotic there.

Too bad the Indians didn't provide us all with visas.
Well we did, but they were on birchbark, and you dumbasses smoked them!

You're actually right. Every time I've been to Mexico, the people stare at me. And I don't mean a quick movement of the head just to look --- I mean genuine stares. And then the old guys who rub my head... That's a bit odd.

We should boot out all illegals and erect a 20 foot tall electric fence with barbed wire at the top and 10,000 volts of electricity, around our borders, and scatter millions of landmines near the fences. That way, the only way anyone can enter is via aircraft (aircraft would pick up people who want to enter legally, at their expense); and if any 'unauthorized' aircraft were spotted, there would be thousands of SAMs to shoot them down.

Why not Commanche? Come on, you know you want to!
Frankly, North Americans need to be a bit more multilingual...the rest of the world thinks we're frikin' morons who CAN'T learn more than one language. :mad:

(trilingual by the way)

it's true - the native Americans didn't take care of their immigration problem and look what happened to them.

But then again you might want to look at it like this: The people who replaced them made a highly productive country, so I say let immigration continue. Hopefully they will follow int eh footsteps of the whiteman and kill off those who oppose their encroachment eh?

Why not Commanche? Come on, you know you want to!

I only picked Iroquois because they're a tribe from up here. I would recommend you speak the language native to the area you are from. Why should all those Comanches learn your language?

I'm sure they'd love a huge influx of gringos actually...they think you're hot:)
Thats what you get when people have a low or no education. :p
And English is kind of exotic there.
I bet it's the same with parts of California.:D

We should boot out all illegals and erect a 20 foot tall electric fence with barbed wire at the top and 10,000 volts of electricity, around our borders, and scatter millions of landmines near the fences. That way, the only way anyone can enter is via aircraft (aircraft would pick up people who want to enter legally, at their expense); and if any 'unauthorized' aircraft were spotted, there would be thousands of SAMs to shoot them down.
While we're at it, let's do that in EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD! Yay! Wait...I could just see the environmentalists on this one...the trail of fried possums along the border...hmmmm....

The people who replaced them made a highly productive country, so I say let immigration continue. Hopefully they will follow int eh footsteps of the whiteman and kill off those who oppose their encroachment eh?
POETIC JUSTICE!

Well we did, but they were on birchbark, and you dumbasses smoked them!

I may have only smoked 7/8's of mine.


A friend of mine desperately wanted me to go to Mexico City with her. She said I'd be a real hit with her friends because everyone loved redheads down there.

Frankly, North Americans need to be a bit more multilingual...the rest of the world thinks we're frikin' morons who CAN'T learn more than one language. :mad:

(trilingual by the way)

Yeah, I know. 'Tis a bit of a problem. Well, I'll be taking German and Japanese when I go to college, so I'll have no problems with that.

I'm fine with the whole immigration thing (even illegal immigration, for the most part), but it's just the way they go about it in the particular part of the country I lived in. I guess you'd have to see it for yourselves.

I may have only smoked 7/8's of mine. Well I guess you're 7/8's legal then!

Well I guess you're 7/8's legal then!
Or is that 7/8's illegal?

Yeah, I know. 'Tis a bit of a problem. Well, I'll be taking German and Japanese when I go to college, so I'll have no problems with that.

I'm fine with the whole immigration thing (even illegal immigration, for the most part), but it's just the way they go about it in the particular part of the country I lived in. I guess you'd have to see it for yourselves.
Ah, I sometimes get annoyed by folks in the Chinese community, the Polish community, the whatever community...but I also get annoyed with folks that are third or fourth generation Canadians. Humans are cliquey (sp?), and legalising or criminilising our movements ain't going to change that.

Or is that 7/8's illegal?
Can't you tell I'm an optimist?

Ah, I sometimes get annoyed by folks in the Chinese community, the Polish community, the whatever community...but I also get annoyed with folks that are third or fourth generation Canadians. Humans are cliquey (sp?), and legalising or criminilising our movements ain't going to change that.

Yeah, that's true. I guess it'll all work out for the best in a few decades. We'll see.

In fact, in all seriousness, I wouldn't mind it if we granted free citizenship (in Canada) to ANYONE willing to live in a rural area for 'x' number of years. (maybe throw in a mule too:))

I wouldn't live in a rural area. Not even for a week. I had to live in a rural area just outside of Tomball for two years. It was awful.

I wouldn't live in a rural area. Not even for a week. I had to live in a rural area just outside of Tomball for two years. It was awful.
Hey!

Well, okay, you're entitled to your opinion.

But do you see the point? We could revitalize our rural areas, and hopefully keep people from leaving after 'x' years are up by showing them the beauty of escaping the rat race, PLUS we could increase our steadily declining population and maybe actually get a pension when we retire!

It does sound like a good idea, but you wouldn't catch me on a train to a Canadian rural community, or a rural community in any country, for that matter!

It does sound like a good idea, but you wouldn't catch me on a train to a Canadian rural community, or a rural community in any country, for that matter!
Not even if I met you at the station? And showed you around? And took you cow tipping, and moose hunting, and river rafting, and moonshine distilling?

(I think that should be part of our welcoming program for new immigrants)

Wow, I'm surprised people aren't getting seriously pissed at me here for wanting all immigration to be legal...

No, I still wouldn't live in the rural area. I'd gladly take a tour, but fuck no, I won't live there!

*is a city person*

No, I still wouldn't live in the rural area. I'd gladly take a tour, but fuck no, I won't live there!

*is a city person*
Well, your citizenship process will be much lengthier then:).

I guess no one really DOES want to talk about illegal immigration.

I guess no one really DOES want to talk about illegal immigration.

Probably not... :D

immigration rocks!

I'm against illegal immigration, because I should not have to learn spanish to order a crispy chicken at the mickey d's, get a second language just to understand half of the people in my ENGLISH class, or speak hindu to get help at a gas station. (I know these are over-generalizations, except for the one about english class, but do you get the idea.) I speak german, spanish and a little of french and russian, but I end up using spanish more than those and english together when I'm at school, and I'm from northern virginia, not SoCAL or florida or texas, Virginia, that state way up near washington DC. I have no issues with immigrants as people, but I have a major issue with people who come to a country and don't bother to learn the language, if I go to france I'm brushin up on my french, same goes for nigeria or outer mongolia (does mongolia even have a seperate language?), if I'm gonna be there I'm gonna be able to speak the language, I think everyone else should do the same, not cause it's convenient, it's not, but because it's the right thing to do.

I'm against illegal immigration, because I should not have to learn spanish to order a crispy chicken at the mickey d's, get a second language just to understand half of the people in my ENGLISH class, or speak hindu to get help at a gas station. (I know these are over-generalizations, except for the one about english class, but do you get the idea.) I speak german, spanish and a little of french and russian, but I end up using spanish more than those and english together when I'm at school, and I'm from northern virginia, not SoCAL or florida or texas, Virginia, that state way up near washington DC. I have no issues with immigrants as people, but I have a major issue with people who come to a country and don't bother to learn the language, if I go to france I'm brushin up on my french, same goes for nigeria or outer mongolia (does mongolia even have a seperate language?), if I'm gonna be there I'm gonna be able to speak the language, I think everyone else should do the same, not cause it's convenient, it's not, but because it's the right thing to do.
I have to point out one major flaw in this argument, but first I'll summarise it:

You are against illegal immigration because illegal immigrants don't learn English (for the most part).

What's to say a legal immigrant will? My mother in law is legal and she STILL doesn't speak English.

In any case...would you be fine with illegal immigration if they all agreed to learn English?

hmmm I don't speak anything but English, have lived all over the country and mostly in SoCal and have never had a problem getting what I need. So what if you can't fully understand something someone says. I have trouble understanding some peoples english. Big Deal. I'm still alive. I'm happy. I have everything I need.

I think people are unecessarily afraid of learning a different language. It isn't really that difficult.

I think people are unecessarily afraid of learning a different language. It isn't really that difficult.

I would love to learn another language. I took French and got straight A's but can't remember a thing. I should have taken Spanish as it would have been much rmoe useful and could ahve actually practiced with people.

I guess as you get older it gets harder to learn more languages unless you were raised bilingual.

I still plan on tryign to learn german, spanish, italian, hindi and japanese though

plus I want to get a really good jamaican accent

I would love to learn another language. I took French and got straight A's but can't remember a thing. I should have taken Spanish as it would have been much rmoe useful and could ahve actually practiced with people.

I guess as you get older it gets harder to learn more languages unless you were raised bilingual.

I still plan on tryign to learn german, spanish, italian, hindi and japanese though

plus I want to get a really good jamaican accent
Of course it's harder as you get older, but not impossible, and harder doesn't mean hard. Just 'less easy than learning as a sponge (kid)'. You lost your French because you didn't use it...so did I, which is why I don't count myself to be quadlingual (sp?). Pick a language you'll use...and let me tell ya, pillow talk is a great way to increase your vocab! *wink*

I speak a little tagalog, as my filipina gf curses me out with it sometimes

I speak bits of spanish since I started working in the restaruant industry, but lost a lot of that when I went into the computer industry where I learned some chinglish! :D

I do what I can to use them just for fun but can't say I am multilingual or even bilingual yet.

English is the only language I need to use right now so I dont know what language to pick. Maybe I should think long term though because someday I want to move to Canada or Holland.

I'm totally against illegal immigration. Legal Immigration I am all for. I find illegal immigration completely unfair to the immigrants who actually spend the time and the money to try and get into this country legally. Not only that, but Illegal Immigration hurts the American Worker and the Legal Immigrant worker. Could you imagine how hard it would be for the Legal Immigrant who has no high school credentials to even get a minimum-wage job over some Alien? It would be impossible because a Business-man only has to pay the Alien 50 cents, but he has to pay the Legal Immigrant minimum-wage.

That sucks, doesn't it?

Beyond that, the American Economy suffers greatly. Illegal Immigration displaces many Americans who can only get low-wage jobs. Therefore, less money is put into the economy so eventually the economy collapses. At the rate the country is running, I would not be suprised if we fall into another Great Depression. With the outsourcing of jobs (which I am also completely against) and the importation of illegal immigrants, BOTH LOW CLASS AND MIDDLE CLASS are getting completely screwed over.

The argument that illegal immigrant workers fill the jobs that Americans don't want to do is insane and incredibly naive. There are many jobs that out of work Americans would love to have so they could get paid, but CAN'T get because illegal immigrants take their jobs.

What's even worse is that, instead of putting money they make back in the American economy, they send it back to their families so more of them can come up. Vicente Fox is using America to get rid of HIS COUNTRY'S unemployment problem. Then his government soaks up all the money sent back to Mexico, so we never see another penny of it, and we lose money.

This isn't like the massive Immigration waves of 1840-1860 and 1890-1920 where they were monitored and controlled and we knew exactly who was coming in to the country. Not only that, but those Immigration waves HELPED the economy, they didn't destroy it! The immigrants learned this Nation's Language, became Part of the Culture and didn't try to destroy ours.

This nation may damned well be the Melting Pot of the World, but I'd like to know what kind of ingredients and how much of them I'm putting in it.

I wouldn't live in a rural area. Not even for a week. I had to live in a rural area just outside of Tomball for two years. It was awful.
LOL
I have a cousin who played for the Tomball football team.

Once again:

it's true - the native Americans didn't take care of their immigration problem and look what happened to them.

But then again you might want to look at it like this: The people who replaced them made a highly productive country, so I say let immigration continue. Hopefully they will follow in the footsteps of the white man and kill off those who oppose their encroachment.

I think it would be hilarious if the US and Canada became mexican territories.

i'm all for immigration, whether legal or illegal. People should be forced to integrate more though. and remittances need to be stopped somehow...

You all act as though we've all been here the whole time, and that the language of the land of the United States has always been English. Maybe we should all start speaking Iroquois.
no. but the people that settled this country spoke english. at least 27 states have officially adopted it on a state level as their official language. and, what language do you speak?

Frankly, North Americans need to be a bit more multilingual...the rest of the world thinks we're frikin' morons who CAN'T learn more than one language. :mad:

(trilingual by the way) okay, and we need to know a bunch of languages for what reason? if you arent traveling.......... you know what? read this http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8619342&postcount=57

In fact, in all seriousness, I wouldn't mind it if we granted free citizenship (in Canada) to ANYONE willing to live in a rural area for 'x' number of years. (maybe throw in a mule too:))
thats your problem right there. you live in a RURAL area, try moving here. you would change your mind really quick when you see how overburdened this society is.

I'm against illegal immigration, because I should not have to learn spanish to order a crispy chicken at the mickey d's, get a second language just to understand half of the people in my ENGLISH class, or speak hindu to get help at a gas station. (I know these are over-generalizations, except for the one about english class, but do you get the idea.) I speak german, spanish and a little of french and russian, but I end up using spanish more than those and english together when I'm at school, and I'm from northern virginia, not SoCAL or florida or texas, Virginia, that state way up near washington DC. I have no issues with immigrants as people, but I have a major issue with people who come to a country and don't bother to learn the language, if I go to france I'm brushin up on my french, same goes for nigeria or outer mongolia (does mongolia even have a seperate language?), if I'm gonna be there I'm gonna be able to speak the language, I think everyone else should do the same, not cause it's convenient, it's not, but because it's the right thing to do.
exactly. would any of you people that think its such a LOVELY idea for us all to just deal with illegals, and language issues go to a foreign country, and not take even a fucking dictionary of the most oft used phrases? i think not. you would starve. but mexico in general only requires a 6th grade education of its citizens, so they arent exactly the type to really try and learn new things. they are coming to the USA for SURVIVAL. its a different mentality.

I think people are unecessarily afraid of learning a different language. It isn't really that difficult.
this thread was about the problems of illegal immigrations. NOT the language. everyone got sidetracked, including myself.

I suppose you could do what Australia does: Catch these illegal immigrants and lock them in a concentration, err, detention camp in the middle of the desert for five to ten years and then send them home.

I suppose you could do what Australia does: Catch these illegal immigrants and lock them in a concentration, err, detention camp in the middle of the desert for five to ten years and then send them home.
great idea. if that was a concentration camp though, they would be gassed.

or we could just build a wall, and let people apply based on merits and skills to live here. its an easy proiblem to solve.

I suppose you could do what Australia does: Catch these illegal immigrants and lock them in a concentration, err, detention camp in the middle of the desert for five to ten years and then send them home.
I'm so proud to be Australian...

great idea. if that was a concentration camp though, they would be gassed.

or we could just build a wall, and let people apply based on merits and skills to live here. its an easy proiblem to solve.

Actually if you studied history you would know that a concentration camp is not a death camp. Concentration camps were invented by The British during the Boer war, they did not gas people. Death camps however did gas people to death.

Next thing you know, illegal immigration will be defined as international terrorism.

(nervous laughter because we all know there are fuckers in the US government crazy enough to do just that.. hell there are fuckers on this board who would too)

That site seemed to mostly show that trying to prevent illegal immigration is costing the economy, not the illegal immigration itself. Then they showed allthe costs of illegal immigrants at schools, etc. But that was all a strawman because whether a resident is 'illegal' or not they will still use government services as long as the government offers them. And as with most anti-illegal-immigration proponents I had the feeling that it was trying to demonize Mexicans for speaking another language. Fuck it, if someone doesn't speak my language and I don't speak theirs, then we don't communicate - end of story. I don't go trying to ban anyone who speaks that language from coming into the country (or trying to get people to fear them).

Next thing you know, illegal immigration will be defined as international terrorism.

(nervous laughter because we all know there are fuckers in the US government crazy enough to do just that.. hell there are fuckers on this board who would too)

That site seemed to mostly show that trying to prevent illegal immigration is costing the economy, not the illegal immigration itself. Then they showed allthe costs of illegal immigrants at schools, etc. But that was all a strawman because whether a resident is 'illegal' or not they will still use government services as long as the government offers them. And as with most anti-illegal-immigration proponents I had the feeling that it was trying to demonize Mexicans for speaking another language. Fuck it, if someone doesn't speak my language and I don't speak theirs, then we don't communicate - end of story. I don't go trying to ban anyone who speaks that language from coming into the country (or trying to get people to fear them).
as a homeowner and productive meber of society, i am very concerned with the cost of illegal immigration. and what you are saying about services....legal immigrants have options to use free services. most of the reason for becoming legal is so you can get a "good" social security number, and be eligible for jobs that offer full time employment and benefits. illegal;s have no other choice than to drain the state of what it does offfer.

and here is a thought. what do you think of homeless people? does it make you sad when you see people with out housing, adequate food and medical care? most citizens here in that predicament have had some really unfortunate things happen to them that creates the situation. but lets apply that to illegals. how sad would it make you to see a family (with minor children) pay thousands of dollars ( that most likely took years to save) to come to this country, and not see the streets of gold as told of in many a barrio? instead., to work under very demeaning rules, to live in squallor, with manuy other other people, to work hard for little money, to not have health insurance or the means to provide essentials for their kids in this country (you have to wear shoes and buy school suppplies) , to not understand the language or customs, when they were promised so much? thats very bleak. and thats what happens to most illegals that come here. they do not attain the american dream. they just gather heartache and percieved unfairness. why not stay in their own country, and improve that as a society?

we thought bringing slaves from africa was a terrible thing. what makes you think that just because initially latin american immigrants want to come here, b ut yet never get the things they expected from this society, that it is much different?

we thought bringing slaves from africa was a terrible thing. what makes you think that just because initially latin american immigrants want to come here, b ut yet never get the things they expected from this society, that it is much different?
this metaphor is remarkably apt. jsut as the african slaves were enslaved first by their own countrymen, then by the white foreigners, most illegal immagrants come to this country because they have been disenfranchised to the point of wage-slavery, only to get the same treatment here. Because it's not legal to employ them, they cannot unionize, and exploitation is pathetically easy.
something needs to be done about the issues facing these vast amounts of suffering and impoverished indivuals. enslaving them within our own borders is not it.

this metaphor is remarkably apt. jsut as the african slaves were enslaved first by their own countrymen, then by the white foreigners, most illegal immagrants come to this country because they have been disenfranchised to the point of wage-slavery, only to get the same treatment here. Because it's not legal to employ them, they cannot unionize, and exploitation is pathetically easy.
something needs to be done about the issues facing these vast amounts of suffering and impoverished indivuals. enslaving them within our own borders is not it. thank you for your welcome insight.

there is nothing wrong with exploitation. the comfortable lifestyle that the middle class here in the US enjoys is based on efficiently exploiting cheap labor around the world... the shirts off our backs are likely made in southeast asian sweatshops, our food is cheap because the illegal labor involved is so inexpensive. every time we partake in the affordable goods and services we are condoning our entire capitalist economic and social system here in the US. homeless people can go to hell, i read your earlier posts occidio i thought that was your position too. if we take a moral stance against cheap illegal labor then we'd have to be opposed to the entire premise of middle class life. people are definitely going to make moral compromises in order to enjoy their affluence.

as for the slavery analogy, illegals are no less slaves than a white American homeless guy or some poverty stricken white man from a trailer park... with hard work they can earn the respect of their society, and they can move anywhere in this country and make a life for themselves

there is nothing wrong with exploitation. the comfortable lifestyle that the middle class here in the US enjoys is based on efficiently exploiting cheap labor around the world... the shirts off our backs are likely made in southeast asian sweatshops, our food is cheap because the illegal labor involved is so inexpensive. every time we partake in the affordable goods and services we are condoning our entire capitalist economic and social system here in the US. homeless people can go to hell, i read your earlier posts occidio i thought that was your position too. if we take a moral stance against cheap illegal labor then we'd have to be opposed to the entire premise of middle class life. people are definitely going to make moral compromises in order to enjoy their affluence.

as for the slavery analogy, illegals are no less slaves than a white American homeless guy or some poverty stricken white man from a trailer park... with hard work they can earn the respect of their society, and they can move anywhere in this country and make a life for themselves
LAST PART IS NOT TRUE.you cant get far with a fake social security number, below minimum wage pay and the sixth grade educational skills of a third world schooling. cheap labor? yes it got us this far, but the fall out of the illegals- ie, effects on health care system, schooling, crime etc, is getting too expensive to justify it anymore.

So much bitching about language. Last time I checked, the US has never officially declared a national language. English is not the official language of the US. Yes, the majority of US citizens speak English, but majority does not make right.

As for the rest, don't get me started. The day I see a white suburban kid who isn't part of a prison chain gang laying tar for the road is the day I will think maybe illegal immigration hurts peoples' chances of getting a job.

Until then, if a guy can hop the border, is willing to dig ditches for a week and can send $150 back to his family in Mexico which will allow them food and shelter for an entire 3 months, then - as Governor George W. Bush once said - I'll just look the other way.

the problems would still exist. you can make everyone legal, and they will still send money to their country, they will still demand for us to teach in their language, they will still refuse to even attempt to assimilate to our countrys ways, and they still will attempt to shape society in a way so that they are "the underdog". and you know what else, THE POPULATION WILL GET TO DAMN LARGE.

sinahue- people dont get arrested for being illegal here.

Well im no advocat of illegal immigration.. but i suggest you put your so called facts in perspective. One of the largest problems facing western nations today including the US is population decline. The baby boomers were the real last explosion in population in American history, and with thier entering retirement age and existing the work force the American economy faces a real threat of labor shortages. Every respectiable model for American work force statistics predicting future demand growth puts us in the Red, and most experts will agree Immigration in some sastained levels is not only welcomes, but ESSENTIAL (numbers well beyond what we allow in immigration annually today). So the US as most European nations themselves face no threat of overpopluation. However, nations like Japan who have extremely strick immigration laws and enforce illegal immigration laws obediantly not just faces a threat of population decline but are already feeling it. In within the next half century the population of Japan will half, and with it the GDP will follow droping japan from the 2nd largest economy well below many other European nations.

Secondly you claim Illegal immigrants (maybe even immigrants themselves) are unwiling to become naturalized and learn the language.. which is largely true, first generation immigrants (especially illegal immigrants) seem resistant to the new culture... HOWEVER, the level of naturalization and langauge skills jumps DRAMATICALLY (nearly to 95%) for second generation immigrants.. so their children are very accepting of naturalization, and do not demand the culture to conform to them.

As for shaping society... this is an unstoppable inevitable process. The colonists that came over where largely puritans, then the Irish came and the country became more Christian/Catholic and so the jews came and the Asians. Our society is far form a homogenious one.. so we should expect society to be shaped (it is neither good nor bad)..

This all said.. laws are laws and people should not be breaking them (showing a lack of respect for our soceity and its laws) by entering illegally.. and we should prosecute them to the fullest extent.. as well as punish any company brutally who employs them

So much bitching about language. Last time I checked, the US has never officially declared a national language. English is not the official language of the US. Yes, the majority of US citizens speak English, but majority does not make right.

As for the rest, don't get me started. The day I see a white suburban kid who isn't part of a prison chain gang laying tar for the road is the day I will think maybe illegal immigration hurts peoples' chances of getting a job.

Until then, if a guy can hop the border, is willing to dig ditches for a week and can send $150 back to his family in Mexico which will allow them food and shelter for an entire 3 months, then - as Governor George W. Bush once said - I'll just look the other way.

as for language.. while there is no national language (YET) many states have pass legislation making English the offical language in their states..

and if you question the effect illegal imigrants have on jobs.. just look to the mid west and south western manufacturing sectors (already stressed from global compeditors) and look to the automobile industries and retail industries and agricultural industries... you may think.. my god im a lazy bumb i dont want to look any of that up. But I asure you, it wont take much effort at all, your only one google search away from so much info you'll puke on the subject!

And sure they can send money back to Mexico.. but when Mexico starts dictating American law by challenging laws Sovergin states are passing limiting those essential pull factors .. then there is a BIG ASS PROBLEM!

And sure they can send money back to Mexico.. but when Mexico starts dictating American law by challenging laws Sovergin states are passing limiting those essential pull factors .. then there is a BIG ASS PROBLEM!

Meh ... it's a great big world. The problem is that Mexicans are brown and the US has never been kind to brown people. We'll legislate the hell out of anything Mexicans do in the US, but we'll let Russian oil companies settle their disputes against the Russian government in our courts. Russians aren't brown (mostly).

We want a wall up between the US and Mexico, but not Canada.

We sanction brown owned Cuba, but not lilly white (until extremely recently) owned South Africa.

It's sad, really. The US would do better to globalise, we're just too stupid to realise it. Most Americans don't even realise that China controls our economy with 600+ billion US dollars that if they dumped, we'd look like Germany after WWII ... using dollar bills as wallpaper. If we were more global, that wouldn't be much of a problem.

The immigration laws we're trying to put in place now smack of Monroe Doctrine and, frankly, that sucks ass.

Meh ... it's a great big world. The problem is that Mexicans are brown and the US has never been kind to brown people. We'll legislate the hell out of anything Mexicans do in the US, but we'll let Russian oil companies settle their disputes against the Russian government in our courts. Russians aren't brown (mostly).

We want a wall up between the US and Mexico, but not Canada.

We sanction brown owned Cuba, but not lilly white (until extremely recently) owned South Africa.

It's sad, really. The US would do better to globalise, we're just too stupid to realise it. Most Americans don't even realise that China controls our economy with 600+ billion US dollars that if they dumped, we'd look like Germany after WWII ... using dollar bills as wallpaper. If we were more global, that wouldn't be much fo a problem.

The immigration laws we're trying to put in place now smack of Monroe Doctrine and, frankly, that sucks ass.

we can globalize.. with legal immigration as we have for centuries.. is the candain population so impoverished by their own government that they are running to the US boarders in droves of millions annually ? if so.. i missed the memo

Cubans are brown ? since when ?? learn your latin america... if China Dumped ... they would destroy their own economy as well as ours.. Because the US wouldn't pay that amount all at once. Its simple economics and reality... when small countries can't pay their debts.. its their problem.. when Big rich countries can't pay their debts its the creditors problem. 20 years ago we thought Japan and Britian were taking over our country... look at it now >.>. Just a sign of the times.

globalization is only good if it occurs equally.. there is nothing equal on any spectrum of the scale in this globalizing economy.. cheap labor undercuts the american industries and work force, while multinationals shift from one country to another finding the cheapest means possible with little or no regulation. countries like China can manipulate their currencies to enact unfair trade practices while activily supressing their populations standard of living to make them a more lucrative target for multinationals. On top of that the 3rd world countries can't even compete with the active cheap labor practices of growth nations like India and china and their governments are so corrupt the people can't run out of the country fast enough before they all starve to death... please.. stop me when I get to the part where America starts to benifits from globalization.

the simple truth is.. America is on top because it WAS the world economy for the last 40 years... america has only to go down as globalization increases.. globalization is GREAT for the world economies which before had no opprotunity to compete... but industries gain more jobs at the expense of American workers... the world economy is largely a fixed pie (with fixed resources) .. america has had a good chunk of that pie and now has to give it up in a globalizing world (that is the over inflated american standard of living)... america dosn't benifit from globalization.. globalization benifits from american participation!