NationStates Jolt Archive

Yes, God be with his family, now that the brave Sergeant has died in the line of duty.

When his M3 Bradley was hit by Iraqi RPGs, disabling it, the Iraqi soldiers stormed it. The brave sergeant manned the not-disabled machine gun, allowing the rest of the American troops, about one hundred of them, to get to saftey. After killing anywhere from fifty to one hundred enemy troops, he was shot and killed.

For this amazing act of courage, selfless service, and complete dedication to his men and Country, he was rightfully rewarded what he deserved.

The Sergeant is the first recipient of the coveted Medal of Honor in Iraq, the third since Vietnam, and the 3,600-some ever.

God bless him, God bless his family, and God bless the US servicemen/women, and the international coalition in Iraq.

He was a true American Hero.

I am glad that he got our nation's highest military honor. May he rest in peace.

Yes, God be with his family, now that the brave Sergeant has died in the line of duty.

When his M3 Bradley was hit by Iraqi RPGs, disabling it, the Iraqi soldiers stormed it. The brave sergeant manned the not-disabled machine gun, allowing the rest of the American troops, about one hundred of them, to get to saftey. After killing anywhere from fifty to one hundred enemy troops, he was shot and killed.

For this amazing act of courage, selfless service, and complete dedication to his men and Country, he was rightfully rewarded what he deserved.

The Sergeant is the first recipient of the coveted Medal of Honor in Iraq, the third since Vietnam, and the 3,600-some ever.

God bless him, God bless his family, and God bless the US servicemen/women, and the international coalition in Iraq.

This is a true American Hero. He died saving his comrades with little thought to his own personal safety.

May he rest in peace!

He is a hero, the best of our best. May he rest in peace and his memory be a source of pride for our soldiers. They are all giving some, and he gave all.

He is a hero, the best of our best. May he rest in peace and his memory be a source of pride for our soldiers. They are all giving some, and he gave all.

There is a rock somewhere that has been painted over time and time again but when a patriotic mural appeared on it, it hasn't been touched. I have pictures of it in my email box. It has they are all giving some and some gave all.

I heard that story today. It was a selfless act on his part. Hopefully he is resting in peace.

That is pretty crazy.

It's like something out of a movie almost...

May he rest in peace.

A well deserved medal. May he rest in peace.

*gets a spasmic orgasm from all the ecstasy and US patriotism seeping from this thread*

Ein Deutscher']*gets a spasmic orgasm from all the ecstasy and US patriotism seeping from this thread*
[ De-balls you so you won't be bothered by them anymore ]

He is a true patriot. May God bless him and his family.

teh Clicky (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050404/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/medal_of_honor&cid=542&ncid=1480)

Of course, it's telling that Bush and not Sgt. Smith is pictured in the story. I smell a photo op. :rolleyes:

Nevertheless, I remain thankful for those who serve so I don't have to, because if I did, I would simply commit suicide. (I wouldn't mix well with military culture.)

He threw away his life and now his family is a member short. I bet if he had a wife and children, they'll feel really good now. And why was he in Iraq? So Bush can continue his adventure endlessly. Oh wait, I forgot, it's to help the poor Iraqis get a democracy. I'd prefer it if such things would not happen in the first place - i.e. if no wars were necessary to solve problems.

Edit: He had 2 children and his wife is actually German... too bad for her. now she's a widow. And all so that Iraq may become a good US colony. *applause* Truly brave.

Ein Deutscher']*gets a spasmic orgasm from all the ecstasy and US patriotism seeping from this thread*

Ya' know, when a man dies in this fashion, whether you agree with what he was fighting for or not, he deserves respect! He paid the ultimate price to save his commrades in arms.

Bless him and his family and friends. He is worthy of the posthemous award and recognition.

Ya' know, when a man dies in this fashion, whether you agree with what he was fighting for or not, he deserves respect! He paid the ultimate price to save his commrades in arms.

Bless him and his family and friends. He is worthy of the posthemous award and recognition.
He saved 100 soldiers. Good for him. I wonder how they ended up in the situation in the first place. The official war ended quite some time ago.

Ein Deutscher']He saved 100 soldiers. Good for him. I wonder how they ended up in the situation in the first place. The official war ended quite some time ago.

When you stick a damp kerosen rag on the end of a fishing hook, you instantly know...

F-L-A-M-E-B-A-I-T!!!

I am curious as to when this event actually took place. From all accounts that I could gather, most violence that takes place in Iraq nowadays is in the forms of small groups of bandits or remote IEDs. And yet it says fifty to a hundred enemy troops? And over a hundred friendly soldiers? I do not dispute the propability of a RPG being appropriated for such a use in that war torn land, or the fact that the ambush took place, putting lives at stake, but the numbers are odd.

Something is inconsistent here.

Soldiers dieing during "war" die while doing their job. It's a bad job imo - nobody should be a soldier. Soldiers more often than not kill civilians for no reason and are tools of war to further the egoistic goals of politicians. It has always been like this. So if one of them dies, it's too bad, but not a reason to get a collective orgasm.

That is pretty crazy.

It's like something out of a movie almost...

May he rest in peace.

Reminds me of Audie Murphy (and of course, his autobiographical movie). Both amazing soldiers. I knew whan I heard about this story a year ago that his story would survive the whittling-down process for MoH nominations. This guy was certainly one of the best.

I am curious as to when this event actually took place. From all accounts that I could gather, most violence that takes place in Iraq nowadays is in the forms of small groups of bandits or remote IEDs. And yet it says fifty to a hundred enemy troops? And over a hundred friendly soldiers? I do not dispute the propability of a RPG being appropriated for such a use in that war torn land, or the fact that the ambush took place, putting lives at stake, but the numbers are odd.

Something is inconsistent here.

It occurred in the very beginning - they were fighting Iraqi Republican Guard troops at an airport, I believe. (not "insurgents")

Ein Deutscher']So if one of them dies, it's too bad, but not a reason to get a collective orgasm.

This story would be just as incredible if he had lived. Many MoH winners have survived and been celebrated as well. It's not some kind of memorial thing, that's only one variable. Audie Murphy, for example, became a huge celebrity, having survived a tremendous act of bravery.

Ein Deutscher']He threw away his life and now his family is a member short.
His family is a member short, but I'd bet that the men he saved and their families would not agree that he "threw away his life."

Ein Deutscher'] I bet if he had a wife and children, they'll feel really good now.
No, they won't, they'll mourn the loss of a loved one, but they'll have some comfort in their mourning knowing that a significant number of other families still have husbands and fathers.

Ein Deutscher'] And why was he in Iraq? So Bush can continue his adventure endlessly.
How about because he he felt a sense of duty and honor and a willingness to live up to the bargain he made when he joined the military?

Ein Deutscher'] Oh wait, I forgot, it's to help the poor Iraqis get a democracy.
And, there is a problem with "poor Iraqis having a democratic government?

Ein Deutscher']I'd prefer it if such things would not happen in the first place - i.e. if no wars were necessary to solve problems.
You and me both, however, sad as it is, there are still Hitlers, Tojo's, Stalins and Mussolinis in this world who will not answer to anything or anyone and leave no choice in the matter except force.

Ein Deutscher']Edit: He had 2 children and his wife is actually German... too bad for her. now she's a widow. And all so that Iraq may become a good US colony. *applause* Truly brave.

Better a democratic US colony than a murderous, oppressive Iraqi one. Also, yes, it is brave to lay down your life so that others may live.

It occurred in the very beginning - they were fighting Iraqi Republican Guard troops at an airport, I believe. (not "insurgents")

Curiouser and curiouser. That article is dated 04-04 and presumably 2005. Unless of course it has been dredged up from the 2003 records. If the latter, there is not much to say, but if the former, I wonder if the publicity of said event had more to do with photo opportunities and image boosting than anything else.

In either case, the man died as a soldier. How he acted in life I would not dare to claim knowledge, but in death, he acted selflessly.

And that, is all I have to say of the matter.

In either case, the man died as a soldier. How he acted in life I would not dare to claim knowledge, but in death, he acted selflessly.

And that, is all I have to say of the matter.

And nothing more need be said, unless you wish to say a prayer for comfort to his family. You hit the nail on the head.

Curiouser and curiouser. That article is dated 04-04 and presumably 2005. Unless of course it has been dredged up from the 2003 records. If the latter, there is not much to say, but if the former, I wonder if the publicity of said event had more to do with photo opportunities and image boosting than anything else.

In either case, the man died as a soldier. How he acted in life I would not dare to claim knowledge, but in death, he acted selflessly.

And that, is all I have to say of the matter.

The MoH nomination and awarding process takes a long time. I remember hearing about the story on Frontline or cable news at the very beginning though, I'm certain of that. But even if it was forseeable that the award would be given, it's still historic.

His family is a member short, but I'd bet that the men he saved and their families would not agree that he "threw away his life."

No, they won't, they'll mourn the loss of a loved one, but they'll have some comfort in their mourning knowing that a significant number of other families still have husbands and fathers.

How about because he he felt a sense of duty and honor and a willingness to live up to the bargain he made when he joined the military?

And, there is a problem with "poor Iraqis having a democratic government?

You and me both, however, sad as it is, there are still Hitlers, Tojo's, Stalins and Mussolinis in this world who will not answer to anything or anyone and leave no choice in the matter except force.

Better a democratic US colony than a murderous, oppressive Iraqi one. Also, yes, it is brave to lay down your life so that others may live.
Please do not feed the trolls.

Please do not feed the trolls.

Deal!

Ein Deutscher']He threw away his life and now his family is a member short. I bet if he had a wife and children, they'll feel really good now. And why was he in Iraq? So Bush can continue his adventure endlessly. Oh wait, I forgot, it's to help the poor Iraqis get a democracy. I'd prefer it if such things would not happen in the first place - i.e. if no wars were necessary to solve problems.

Edit: He had 2 children and his wife is actually German... too bad for her. now she's a widow. And all so that Iraq may become a good US colony. *applause* Truly brave.

your last three posts are treading the line on being flamebait... if you don't have anything useful to add, as this thread isn't about policy, but one mans bravery to save his comrades, than please feel free to go somewhere else.

this isn't a policy debate thread, and take your standard anti Americanism somewhere else. In other threads you have clearly expressed your views, you never accept any counter evidence offered in a factual discussion, and you never have anything positive to add.

what I most regret is that the last three Medals of Honor awarded went to the family members of the soldiers, as they themselves had already been buried.

(last 2 before this were from Somalia in 1992, you can see their actions in "Black Hawk Down"... they were the two Delta Force operators who volunteered to try to hold of the Somalian militia and mob from tearing apart the aircrew of the second helicopter shot down).

I am curious as to when this event actually took place. From all accounts that I could gather, most violence that takes place in Iraq nowadays is in the forms of small groups of bandits or remote IEDs. And yet it says fifty to a hundred enemy troops? And over a hundred friendly soldiers? I do not dispute the propability of a RPG being appropriated for such a use in that war torn land, or the fact that the ambush took place, putting lives at stake, but the numbers are odd.

Something is inconsistent here.

the incident in question happened in the early days of the war, when US soldiers were still fighting formed up units, and were frequently outnumbered (remember the US and British went in with less than three divisions of troops vs the Republican Guard which had about 5 divisions, plus the various other paramilitary and military forces that decided to fight).

This happened one day more then a year age
-------------------------------------------
This Man is a true hero, that sacrificed himself for his comrades, may he rest in eternal peace.

Please do not feed the trolls.can you please then 'Warn' the trolls... it spoils the threads that try to do nothing else but show Courage and Bravery against such odss.

I am Glad it passed 10 posts before such trolling and flamebaiting began.

Prayers to him and his surviving family.

Ein Deutscher']He saved 100 soldiers. Good for him. I wonder how they ended up in the situation in the first place. The official war ended quite some time ago.

What would you have done if you were in the exact same situation? Come on. I thought you served in the military.

The MoH nomination and awarding process takes a long time. I remember hearing about the story on Frontline or cable news at the very beginning though, I'm certain of that. But even if it was forseeable that the award would be given, it's still historic.

I heard about it as well when this incident occured. I remember thinking that he'll get the award. Didn't surprise me though that it took this long to do it.

He killed 100 Iraqis??? :confused:

Ein Deutscher']He threw away his life and now his family is a member short. I bet if he had a wife and children, they'll feel really good now. And why was he in Iraq? So Bush can continue his adventure endlessly. Oh wait, I forgot, it's to help the poor Iraqis get a democracy. I'd prefer it if such things would not happen in the first place - i.e. if no wars were necessary to solve problems.

Edit: He had 2 children and his wife is actually German... too bad for her. now she's a widow. And all so that Iraq may become a good US colony. *applause* Truly brave.

She's a widow now but she lives in America and I bet she has a job. Not like some unemployed Germans that post anti-American stuff on this thread...Wait, am I talking about you?

He killed 100 Iraqis??? :confused:

From the Iraqi Military while saving his comrades

Correct, it was about a hundred Iraqi soldiers. I apologize if I put "insurgents." That was a mistake on my part.

This incident occured two years ago, btw. And yes, the confirmation process takes a long time. They don't just hand out Medal of Honors, after all.

Correct, it was about a hundred Iraqi soldiers. I apologize if I put "insurgents." That was a mistake on my part.

This incident occured two years ago, btw. And yes, the confirmation process takes a long time. They don't just hand out Medal of Honors, after all.

Actually between 20-50 Iraqi soldiers according to the citation.

Actually between 20-50 Iraqi soldiers according to the citation.
Article I read said fifty to a hundred. Either way, it's still a hell of a lot.

To put it all in perspective (http://www.brandonblog.com/Sgt-Paul-Ray-Smith.html), the words of his wife:

"What is the Medal of Honor?" she asked angrily in the dining room of her new home here on the Gulf Coast north of Tampa, the home where his mother and stepfather lived, and where memories of him linger. She was crying now. "What is it to me? What is it to Paul? Maybe it's something to the kids, but it doesn't bring my husband back. It's nothing."

That is the realities of war. It is unfortunate that this war happened in the first place.

To put it all in perspective (http://www.brandonblog.com/Sgt-Paul-Ray-Smith.html), the words of his wife:

"What is the Medal of Honor?" she asked angrily in the dining room of her new home here on the Gulf Coast north of Tampa, the home where his mother and stepfather lived, and where memories of him linger. She was crying now. "What is it to me? What is it to Paul? Maybe it's something to the kids, but it doesn't bring my husband back. It's nothing."

That is the realities of war. It is unfortunate that this war happened in the first place.

and you got it from a blog? Is it backed up with other evidence that is what she said?

To put it all in perspective (http://www.brandonblog.com/Sgt-Paul-Ray-Smith.html), the words of his wife:

"What is the Medal of Honor?" she asked angrily in the dining room of her new home here on the Gulf Coast north of Tampa, the home where his mother and stepfather lived, and where memories of him linger. She was crying now. "What is it to me? What is it to Paul? Maybe it's something to the kids, but it doesn't bring my husband back. It's nothing."

That is the realities of war. It is unfortunate that this war happened in the first place.

CH:

You know better than to quote from blogs! Any evidence backing it up?

From ther same article (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/23/international/middleeast/23SOLD.html?ex=1112846400&en=0e4c8cac4055db2b&ei=5070):

Medals for His Valor, Ashes for His Wife

For a reporter traveling with the division's First Brigade at the time — and bound by Pentagon guidelines that prohibit immediately identifying casualties — the sergeant's death was another faceless fact of the war's grim toll, noted amid the thunderous blasts of a battle that was not yet over.

But the dead have faces — and families. The war's reverberations continue far away from Iraq. The ultimate price of the conflict is still being paid, long after the shot through the neck that killed Sergeant Smith.

"I'm living in a zone — like a zombie," Mrs. Smith said. "I'm hoping I'll wake up one day and it won't be true."

It is not just the soldier that pays the price?

no arguements there..... on the other hand, she would be just as much as widow if he had simply been blown up by a car bomb or killed by a traffic accident. At least this way she knows the Nation cared enough to recognize her husbands valor.

And their children get to go to the Military Academy of their choice if they want to someday automatically (assuming usual academic standards are met etc). A free education is nothing to sneeze at, children and widows of MOH widows also get a special pension.

Its not him returning home, but its better than nothing.

I am curious as to when this event actually took place. From all accounts that I could gather, most violence that takes place in Iraq nowadays is in the forms of small groups of bandits or remote IEDs. And yet it says fifty to a hundred enemy troops? And over a hundred friendly soldiers? I do not dispute the propability of a RPG being appropriated for such a use in that war torn land, or the fact that the ambush took place, putting lives at stake, but the numbers are odd.

Something is inconsistent here.
It was two years ago, I believe against Iraqi regulars.

What would you have done if you were in the exact same situation? Come on. I thought you served in the military.
He probably would have ran away and hid.

To put it all in perspective (http://www.brandonblog.com/Sgt-Paul-Ray-Smith.html), the words of his wife:

"What is the Medal of Honor?" she asked angrily in the dining room of her new home here on the Gulf Coast north of Tampa, the home where his mother and stepfather lived, and where memories of him linger. She was crying now. "What is it to me? What is it to Paul? Maybe it's something to the kids, but it doesn't bring my husband back. It's nothing."

That is the realities of war. It is unfortunate that this war happened in the first place.
And if not for Sergeant Smith's selfless heroism, that would have been the scene in a hundred dining rooms, not just one.

I am curious as to when this event actually took place. From all accounts that I could gather, most violence that takes place in Iraq nowadays is in the forms of small groups of bandits or remote IEDs. And yet it says fifty to a hundred enemy troops? And over a hundred friendly soldiers? I do not dispute the propability of a RPG being appropriated for such a use in that war torn land, or the fact that the ambush took place, putting lives at stake, but the numbers are odd.

Something is inconsistent here.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Even if it was two years ago, the war ended before then. All violence was supposed to be in small groups of insurgants. :confused:

no arguements there..... on the other hand, she would be just as much as widow if he had simply been blown up by a car bomb or killed by a traffic accident. At least this way she knows the Nation cared enough to recognize her husbands valor.

And their children get to go to the Military Academy of their choice if they want to someday automatically (assuming usual academic standards are met etc). A free education is nothing to sneeze at, children and widows of MOH widows also get a special pension.

Its not him returning home, but its better than nothing.
Yet she doesn't seem to share your sentiments, and I would think that it is her sentiment that counts most here?

And if not for Sergeant Smith's selfless heroism, that would have been the scene in a hundred dining rooms, not just one.
That is debateable, as the figures are all over the place, from one article to another, and he was not acting alone....there were other troops that took out the tower. When the tower was taken out, the offensive by the Iraqi soldiers stopped. Perhaps the 3 soldiers that stormed the tower are the heros?

Regardless, it does not negate my comment that it is unfortunate that this war was even taking place.

He probably would have ran away and hid.
Because someone disagrees with you, they are somehow a coward? :eek:

Ein Deutscher']He threw away his life and now his family is a member short. I bet if he had a wife and children, they'll feel really good now. And why was he in Iraq? So Bush can continue his adventure endlessly. Oh wait, I forgot, it's to help the poor Iraqis get a democracy. I'd prefer it if such things would not happen in the first place - i.e. if no wars were necessary to solve problems.

Edit: He had 2 children and his wife is actually German... too bad for her. now she's a widow. And all so that Iraq may become a good US colony. *applause* Truly brave.
He sacrificed himself to save many others. Because he died 100 other families are not a family member short.

Whether you agree with this war or not, it was still a brave thing to do, for him to lay down his life to save others.

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Even if it was two years ago, the war ended before then. All violence was supposed to be in small groups of insurgants. :confused:

Really? Since the date of Sergeant Smith's death is 4 Apr 03, I seem to recall that major combat against organized Iraqi Army forces was still ongoing. You appear to be considering the end of the war to be when Pres. Bush declared mission complete. My best recollection is that he said that in late Apr or early May.

Yet she doesn't seem to share your sentiments, and I would think that it is her sentiment that counts most here?

she certainly has my sympathies... but

he volunteered for duty, picked his branch of service, and chose to do what he did. She chose to marry him knowing these things.

The awful price sometimes widows (and now widowers) pay when their spouses go to war and sometimes don't come back isn't a new thing.

She is entitled to her grief, although your using it to make a dubious political point seems questionable to me. This thread was created simply to honor a man who gave his life to save others. If he had been a fireman killed saving people in a fire I wouldn't have make this point to you. It would be self evident.

Just because you don't like the policies that created the conflict doesn't mean you shouldn't respect the men and women who are willing to lay down their lifes to save others. I was against the war, question the strategy and policy decisions currently being made, and am glad as hell that my Marine son is going to Okinawa for 2 years instead of Iraq.

But if my son comes home in a box, in spite of my grief, I will remember that he made his choice.

I remember reading George Orwell's 1984 when Winston makes up a story about a heroic soldier who dedicated his life to Oceania(his country) and the military. He died a true hero's death fighting his country's enemies.

Of course he never existed but heroes can be created. Do you believe all that was said of Zaitsev during the battle of Stalingrad? Propaganda! Yes, today it may seem obsolete but it would serve a purpose, giving Americans a "let's get those Iraqis" mentallity.

The problem the US is facing is simply that Iraq is becoming a new Vietnam. I firmly believe that unless something drastically happens, the US will pull back after the next election. A guerilla fighter wins a war by not losing. I shall try not to slide off topic. I do actually feel very uncomfortable with the great heroics and do not believe them to be true. Propaganda people, propaganda.

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Even if it was two years ago, the war ended before then. All violence was supposed to be in small groups of insurgants. :confused:

Two years ago it didn't end. It ended 5 days later.

the Medal of Honor, like the Victoria Cross, has extremely strict standards.... there has never been a politically motivated award since World War I (except maybe the one given to Douglas MacArthur, and reports indicate that he would have earned his in any case because of his continual reckless exposur of himself to danger in 3 wars).

propaganda has nothing to do with this award...

the last 2 issued where for Mogodishu, and they certainly weren't propaganda motivated either.

I remember reading George Orwell's 1984 when Winston makes up a story about a heroic soldier who dedicated his life to Oceania(his country) and the military. He died a true hero's death fighting his country's enemies.

Of course he never existed but heroes can be created. Do you believe all that was said of Zaitsev during the battle of Stalingrad? Propaganda! Yes, today it may seem obsolete but it would serve a purpose, giving Americans a "let's get those Iraqis" mentallity.

The problem the US is facing is simply that Iraq is becoming a new Vietnam. I firmly believe that unless something drastically happens, the US will pull back after the next election. A guerilla fighter wins a war by not losing. I shall try not to slide off topic. I do actually feel very uncomfortable with the great heroics and do not believe them to be true. Propaganda people, propaganda.

You wanna talk about propaganda. YOu bought it hook line and sinker.

1) Sunni rebels are ready to call it quits
2) The Iraqis have elected themselves a new parliment
3) They have elected a speaker for said parliment (A SUNNI no less)
4) They are about ready to start writing their new constitution
5) The insurgency is now trying large scale assaults. A no no against our forces.
6) They tried to free prisoners from a prison. Why? They are probably running short on troops.

Now this doesn't look like Vietnam to me. I suggest you start reading up on some facts.

Yet she doesn't seem to share your sentiments, and I would think that it is her sentiment that counts most here?Hmmm... the next paragraph on the same blog...

Then, at other times, it is something. She has built a shrine of sorts in her bedroom that includes the Purple Heart and Bronze Star he has already received, posthumously. She has left a place on the black felt for the Medal of Honor. so maybe deep down, she does.

and it not just her sentiment.... Smith's sister, Lisa DeVane of Smyrna, Ga., said she isn't surprised that her kid brother turned out to be a hero.

"Even as a child, he was compassionate, always looking out for other children in our neighborhood who weren't as popular as he was," she said.So instead of trying to belittle the acheivements of those who laid their lives down for others, please just shut up.

Hmmm... the next paragraph on the same blog...

so maybe deep down, she does.

and it not just her sentiment.... So instead of trying to belittle the acheivements of those who laid their lives down for others, please just shut up.

Thank You!!!!!

Wilfred Owen (March 18, 1893 - November 4, 1918)

Dulce Et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

So instead of trying to belittle the acheivements of those who laid their lives down for others, please just shut up.
Do you think that the wives and/or families of the Iraqi soldiers who were killed by Smith, will see him as a hero? There are two sides to every battle and there will be losses on both sides in a battle that I firmly believe should have never been fought in the first place.

If the story had simply stated that he died trying to protect the lives of his fellow soldiers against great odds, then that would have been sufficient. Adding that he took the lives of many Iraqis is irrelevant to his heroism.

I am totally against this war in Iraq and it appears that many more stories of pain and suffering will be written before the conflict is over.

And when I see comments such as the ones expressed in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8552637&postcount=271), it indicates to me the level of hatred that comes from these types of conflicts, and it saddens me.

So while you may have your opinions and may want me to "shut up", I also have my opinions and will express them freely. That is what democracy is all about after all....isn't it?

I remember reading George Orwell's 1984 when Winston makes up a story about a heroic soldier who dedicated his life to Oceania(his country) and the military. He died a true hero's death fighting his country's enemies.

Of course he never existed but heroes can be created. Do you believe all that was said of Zaitsev during the battle of Stalingrad? Propaganda! Yes, today it may seem obsolete but it would serve a purpose, giving Americans a "let's get those Iraqis" mentallity.

The problem the US is facing is simply that Iraq is becoming a new Vietnam. I firmly believe that unless something drastically happens, the US will pull back after the next election. A guerilla fighter wins a war by not losing. I shall try not to slide off topic. I do actually feel very uncomfortable with the great heroics and do not believe them to be true. Propaganda people, propaganda.

So, I want to make sure I get this right - It is your opinion there have never been heroes? No one has ever acted selflessly in a war zone? Sgt. York is just propaganda BS? This is just propaganda BS? No soldier would ever lay down his life to save his commrades in arms? All the people who have had to attest to what happened in order for him to get the MoH are lying puppets of a war-mongering administration who are saying that they have been ordered to say?

With all due respect sir, you have a lot to learn about how the real world works and the difference between fact and fiction.

Do you think that the wives and/or families of the Iraqi soldiers who were killed by Smith, will see him as a hero? There are two sides to every battle and there will be losses on both sides in a battle that I firmly believe should have never been fought in the first place.

If the story had simply stated that he died trying to protect the lives of his fellow soldiers against great odds, then that would have been sufficient. Adding that he took the lives of many Iraqis is irrelevant to his heroism.

I am totally against this war in Iraq and it appears that many more stories of pain and suffering will be written before the conflict is over.

And when I see comments such as the ones expressed in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8552637&postcount=271), it indicates to me the level of hatred that comes from these types of conflicts, and it saddens me.

So while you may have your opinions and may want me to "shut up", I also have my opinions and will express them freely. That is what democracy is all about after all....isn't it?Canuck... I hope that when you pass on, you are thought of in friendlier notions than those you've expressed here. the post you are referencing isn't apart of this tread... it was done before this thread was created. your petty anger HAS NO PLACE HERE! To rip a man's actions when he is DEAD. To use him to push your petty views is just cold. you just lost any and all respect I had for you. If you dis-agree... you could've just not posted here. but your petty attitude for the dead, is just... sickening. Goodbye. :(

Do you think that the wives and/or families of the Iraqi soldiers who were killed by Smith, will see him as a hero? There are two sides to every battle and there will be losses on both sides in a battle that I firmly believe should have never been fought in the first place.

If the story had simply stated that he died trying to protect the lives of his fellow soldiers against great odds, then that would have been sufficient. Adding that he took the lives of many Iraqis is irrelevant to his heroism.

I am totally against this war in Iraq and it appears that many more stories of pain and suffering will be written before the conflict is over.

And when I see comments such as the ones expressed in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8552637&postcount=271), it indicates to me the level of hatred that comes from these types of conflicts, and it saddens me.

So while you may have your opinions and may want me to "shut up", I also have my opinions and will express them freely. That is what democracy is all about after all....isn't it?

nope, they probably wouldn't be.... although they may be happy in the knowledge that those soldiers went to Paradise (if they were believers).

Of course war is about killing, but not just about killing. War is also about sacrifice. All professional soldiers in the West believe that. Its why we treat them differently than other people who kill. Its because we know that ultimately we are asking them to die for us if it comes down to it.

However, if you are going to debate, why not stick to the points brought up in THIS THREAD... instead of pulling in some other guys post from some other thread who isn't even here to dispute you. Tsk, Tsk.... kinda of selective isn't it.... almost..........PROPAGANDA?

The best view I ever heard on propaganda is this.. "the best propaganda is the truth" (from the Why We Fight Series by Frank Capra, World War 2)

the Medal of Honor story is the truth, its only propaganda if its used to justify something. In the context of all of the stories I have seen mentioning the award, NOBODY is saying his medal makes a difference in the justification for the war. The medal is simply about his sacrifice and valor.

she certainly has my sympathies...
She also has my sympathies.
She is entitled to her grief, although your using it to make a dubious political point seems questionable to me. This thread was created simply to honor a man who gave his life to save others. If he had been a fireman killed saving people in a fire I wouldn't have make this point to you. It would be self evident.
Yes she is entitled to her grief, and I am strictly pointing out that there are indeed real people connected to this war, who are dying and getting severely injured. There is also the mental anguish that the surviving families have to bear for the rest of their lives.

There are many armchair quarterbacks here, cheering on the victories, safe in the knowledge that they will never have to make the same sacrifices. Some have suggested turning Iraq into a big parking lot, and they constantly are making "dubious political points" by acknowledging the successes but refusing to debate, or glossing over the many failures. They will make excuses or deride others for exposing weaknesses. Many of them live in denial of the truth, and many of them don't want to hear the truth.

This man may be a hero to many but to one lady, his absence is no solace and that is her truth.

But if my son comes home in a box, in spite of my grief, I will remember that he made his choice.
May your son return to you safe and sound. Our children are our treasures in life.

Wilfred Owen (March 18, 1893 - November 4, 1918)

Dulce Et Decorum Est .

A good poem, and the poor bastard died 7 days before the Armistice too...

but what does a poem about a gas attack in World War I have to do with this? I am not saying (speaking only for myself) that Sgt Smith's action are glorious.. merely that he died to save others... his comrades... which I suspect Owen would have agreed is the most noble thing a soldier can do.

I want to reiterate what this thread is about and say God Bless SFC Smith.

From
An Army (female) soldier who retired before 9/11 and Iraq.

Do you think that the wives and/or families of the Iraqi soldiers who were killed by Smith, will see him as a hero? There are two sides to every battle and there will be losses on both sides in a battle that I firmly believe should have never been fought in the first place.then make a thread honoring them and supporting their ideals and their way of life.

If the story had simply stated that he died trying to protect the lives of his fellow soldiers against great odds, then that would have been sufficient. Adding that he took the lives of many Iraqis is irrelevant to his heroism.actually it does, it show how fiercely he fought and the odds that were against him.

I am totally against this war in Iraq and it appears that many more stories of pain and suffering will be written before the conflict is over.and I suppose you love the tales of Saddam torturing and killing the people of his own country.

And when I see comments such as the ones expressed in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8552637&postcount=271), it indicates to me the level of hatred that comes from these types of conflicts, and it saddens me.then please, post in that thread. and leave the ones honoring acts of bravery alone.

So while you may have your opinions and may want me to "shut up", I also have my opinions and will express them freely. That is what democracy is all about after all....isn't it?a democracy that you obviously don't want others to have. and while I am not against your opinions, the appropriateness of belittling this brave man's action and tainting his memory and trying to use his wife's greif to spout your little anti-war slogans is what sickens me.

I want to reiterate what this thread is about and say God Bless SFC Smith.

From
An Army (female) soldier who retired before 9/11 and Iraq.and from a person who knows what it take to do what KittyKatPlace and especially SFC Smith have done, but lacks the courage to do it himself.

a heartfelt Thank You.

Canuck... I hope that when you pass on, you are thought of in friendlier notions than those you've expressed here. the post you are referencing isn't apart of this tread... it was done before this thread was created. your petty anger HAS NO PLACE HERE! To rip a man's actions when he is DEAD. To use him to push your petty views is just cold. you just lost any and all respect I had for you. If you dis-agree... you could've just not posted here. but your petty attitude for the dead, is just... sickening. Goodbye. :(
Where in my post do I not respect the dead, and how did I "rip his actions"? I have no petty anger as you may suggest. I respect the rights of all to life, liberty and property. As far as I am concerned, my opposition to the War in Iraq is not petty, and it is shared with dare I say hundreds of millions of other people.

While this war is being fought, there will be heroes on both sides of the battle lines. I just question the need for this conflict in the first place.

I am sorry if my post seems to be blunt and cold to you, because it is not meant to be either. It is unfortunate if I have lost your respect; however, I will respect your right to disagree.

Id heard around 50 Iraq dead and it stated he stopped an attack on a Field Hospital(How do they know?-it never eventuated so how can they claim he stopped something that their is no evidence it was to be started???)]

Apart from that good on him.

Oh, he got a medal. I bet his corpse is smiling.

Where in my post do I not respect the dead, and how did I "rip his actions"? I have no petty anger as you may suggest. I respect the rights of all to life, liberty and property. As far as I am concerned, my opposition to the War in Iraq is not petty, and it is shared with dare I say hundreds of millions of other people.

While this war is being fought, there will be heroes on both sides of the battle lines. I just question the need for this conflict in the first place.

I am sorry if my post seems to be blunt and cold to you, because it is not meant to be either. It is unfortunate if I have lost your respect; however, I will respect your right to disagree.where do you belittle his achievements? you respect life?

In a thread marveling at his actions, celebrating the lives he saved in a WAR… you first posted in # 41

To put it all in perspective, the words of his wife:

"What is the Medal of Honor?" she asked angrily in the dining room of her new home here on the Gulf Coast north of Tampa, the home where his mother and stepfather lived, and where memories of him linger. She was crying now. "What is it to me? What is it to Paul? Maybe it's something to the kids, but it doesn't bring my husband back. It's nothing."

That is the realities of war. It is unfortunate that this war happened in the first place.Why post this… everyone here knows the horror of war. Why throw the She was crying now. "What is it to me? What is it to Paul? Maybe it's something to the kids, but it doesn't bring my husband back. It's nothing." if you were not trying to use the widows grief to push your “Anti-war” ideologies.

Then in post #44

From ther same article:

Medals for His Valor, Ashes for His Wife

For a reporter traveling with the division's First Brigade at the time — and bound by Pentagon guidelines that prohibit immediately identifying casualties — the sergeant's death was another faceless fact of the war's grim toll, noted amid the thunderous blasts of a battle that was not yet over.

But the dead have faces — and families. The war's reverberations continue far away from Iraq. The ultimate price of the conflict is still being paid, long after the shot through the neck that killed Sergeant Smith.

"I'm living in a zone — like a zombie," Mrs. Smith said. "I'm hoping I'll wake up one day and it won't be true."

It is not just the soldier that pays the price? Again you use his widows grief as your lance.

And when someone tries to point out that the surviving families will not be forgotten…
In post #50
Yet she doesn't seem to share your sentiments, and I would think that it is her sentiment that counts most here? again parading her grief and trying to rub salt into the wounds…

Followed by post 51
That is debateable, as the figures are all over the place, from one article to another, and he was not acting alone....there were other troops that took out the tower. When the tower was taken out, the offensive by the Iraqi soldiers stopped. Perhaps the 3 soldiers that stormed the tower are the heros?

Regardless, it does not negate my comment that it is unfortunate that this war was even taking place. he stood alone in the turrent firing at 100 Republican Guards that were storming the vehicle… not counting the towers. He held his ground so that his buddies could fall back and regroup. He gave them the time needed to take that compound and you scoff at that.

Post # 63
Do you think that the wives and/or families of the Iraqi soldiers who were killed by Smith, will see him as a hero? There are two sides to every battle and there will be losses on both sides in a battle that I firmly believe should have never been fought in the first place.

If the story had simply stated that he died trying to protect the lives of his fellow soldiers against great odds, then that would have been sufficient. Adding that he took the lives of many Iraqis is irrelevant to his heroism.

I am totally against this war in Iraq and it appears that many more stories of pain and suffering will be written before the conflict is over.

And when I see comments such as the ones expressed in this post, it indicates to me the level of hatred that comes from these types of conflicts, and it saddens me.

So while you may have your opinions and may want me to "shut up", I also have my opinions and will express them freely. That is what democracy is all about after all....isn't it? this thread isn’t about the Iraqi Wives and children… nor is this thread about all of the heroics seen on BOTH sides of this war… It’s to honor one person. And you again try to place your anti-war sloagans on a thread meant to honor one man who volunteered for his job of being a soldier. And that is not belittling to you? Trying to turn a thread of one man’s bravery to an anti-war debate?

And when another person tries to tell you that this isn’t appropriate…
Post #67
Yes she is entitled to her grief, and I am strictly pointing out that there are indeed real people connected to this war, who are dying and getting severely injured. There is also the mental anguish that the surviving families have to bear for the rest of their lives.

There are many armchair quarterbacks here, cheering on the victories, safe in the knowledge that they will never have to make the same sacrifices. Some have suggested turning Iraq into a big parking lot, and they constantly are making "dubious political points" by acknowledging the successes but refusing to debate, or glossing over the many failures. They will make excuses or deride others for exposing weaknesses. Many of them live in denial of the truth, and many of them don't want to hear the truth.

This man may be a hero to many but to one lady, his absence is no solace and that is her truth. you start attacking those who see the bravery and you make a remark showing you do not really believe him to be a hero. MAY BE A HERO?

I want to reiterate what this thread is about and say God Bless SFC Smith.

From
An Army (female) soldier who retired before 9/11 and Iraq.

Thanks for serving ma'am

*salutes*