NationStates Jolt Archive

After reading much about religions, and about churches, and all the good garbage that comes around in the field of faith, I've come to a conclusion.

Christians should strive to be more like the pagan lifestyle. They should thank G-d for food, they should recognize nature as something we need to protect and keep around, and we should be more at home in the nature surroundings then in cities and civilized culture.

the only difference that I see between the intent of Jesus's message and the actions of pagan lifestyles is the difference between multiple gods and only one G-d. But even that is kinda not true either, since the bible talks about angels being in charge of aspects of the world, and controling things for G-d, so the gods, as even the bible calls them, are there, just Christian thinking is that you thank the almighty and in pagan you think the entity aspect of the lesser.

Another point to bring up is that G-d intended for us to be in the Garden of Eden, and that Jesus said that the Garden is to be restored. Sounds like we were meant to live in nature with G-d's creations and gifts.

forgot also about how the bible is always talking about animals and how they are more closly connected to G-d then we are. Like when the mule or horse saves the person from the angel of death, and the statements of lion sleeping with the lamb and so forth.

The bible is filled with examples, all one has to do is look.

I can't say anything for the Garden of Eden, but I can say that an attitude such as yours is much more common in the camp of wiccans and other pagans, and it is commendable.

Building bridges between faiths is something that is sorely lacking nowadays, making people realise that, reagardless of the specific tenets of their religion, they have a lot of common morals with others. This commonality is a strength to be encouraged, not used as an opporunity to proselytise, but to be used as a common ground on which to promote spiritual development.

I would also say that, yes, many of the key elements of christianity are present within paganism, although the social and cultural stigma that has been built up over time - by the various christian religions, will take a lot of work to reverse.

I can't say anything for the Garden of Eden, but I can say that an attitude such as yours is much more common in the camp of wiccans and other pagans, and it is commendable.

Building bridges between faiths is something that is sorely lacking nowadays, making people realise that, reagardless of the specific tenets of their religion, they have a lot of common morals with others. This commonality is a strength to be encouraged, not used as an opporunity to proselytise, but to be used as a common ground on which to promote spiritual development.

I would also say that, yes, many of the key elements of christianity are present within paganism, although the social and cultural stigma that has been built up over time - by the various christian religions, will take a lot of work to reverse.

I've been raised with very open mind teachers. Most of what destroys the Christian reputation is doctrine and people that don't know the bible.

The bible states not to call non-believers names or insult them, they even show how the Arch Angel Michael didn't even do so with the Satan, all he did was say, Lord rebuke you.

Another thing in the bible is that one is supposed to protect your reputation, because if you don't you hide the light that has been revealed to you, and you no longer do the Lord's work.

I have found that I follow more of the virtues of older faiths, and i've found those same virtues in the bible. King David speaks that we must defend those the cannot defend themsevles, protect the orphans and the widows, and protect the just. Old Druidic virtues, those that haven't been altered by modern wiccans (no offense) say pretty much the same thing. stive for justice, protect the innocent, and such.

After all, "the Spirit of G-d is in all our hearts, regardless of if they were told"

Please, I have had enough of your relativist talk. Obviously, you don't know that to be a Christian means believing and saying that all religions besides yours are wrong.

Yep lets all go Pagan. Roman Style. Hold some festivals to Jupiter and then lets convert Dodger Stadium into a classic coliseum and hold some good old fashion blood sports! :D

If Paganism survived in force to the modern era it wouldn't be much different than Christianity in how it treated the world. Christianity tells us to take care of our environment and all that jive as well. We as a people simply tend to ignore little things like that that get in the way.

Please, I have had enough of your relativist talk. Obviously, you don't know that to be a Christian means believing and saying that all religions besides yours are wrong.

Ever read any C.S. Lewis?

The Chronicles of Narnia right? I used to read that series back when I was in the 7th grade, pretty good stories...

Yep lets all go Pagan. Roman Style. Hold some festivals to Jupiter and then lets convert Dodger Stadium into a classic coliseum and hold some good old fashion blood sports! :D

If Paganism survived in force to the modern era it wouldn't be much different than Christianity in how it treated the world. Christianity tells us to take care of our environment and all that jive as well. We as a people simply tend to ignore little things like that that get in the way.

well, Paganism in Roman times would have included Christians and Jews.

It was a word that is basically the same as our term for rednecks or back waters. Those that lived out side of the 'enlightened cities'

Ever read any C.S. Lewis?

Yes.

The Chronicles of Narnia right? I used to read that series back when I was in the 7th grade, pretty good stories...

And full of symbolism. Also, he wrote The Problem of Pain, Mere Christianity, and The Screwtape Letters.

Yep lets all go Pagan. Roman Style. Hold some festivals to Jupiter and then lets convert Dodger Stadium into a classic coliseum and hold some good old fashion blood sports! :D

If Paganism survived in force to the modern era it wouldn't be much different than Christianity in how it treated the world. Christianity tells us to take care of our environment and all that jive as well. We as a people simply tend to ignore little things like that that get in the way.

understandably, power tends to bring out the worst in people. It fuels the concept of doing what you want first, above all else. Thats what religion and faith is, it gives you a reason for you actions, and most give a set of results to those actions.

The Chronicles of Narnia right? I used to read that series back when I was in the 7th grade, pretty good stories...

I REALLY don't think he means Narnia. I think he's talking about the more philisophical books he wrote.

Even Paul found faith in those that didn't see things as modern "christians" see things. Going to Greek debates and such and saying that they have the faith that is needed. I think the concepts of multiple powers is allowed and shown in the bible, and yet Christians destort things. I guess thats why G-d doesn't back the churchs much anymore, at least not like in the old days.

Ever read any C.S. Lewis?

Oh yes. Very enjoyable. I liked "The Screwtape Letters." It has helped me with a number of questions I had over what to and what not to do.

I like your idea but I think factually you're a little off. Christianity doesn't very much concern itself with nature and certainly doesnt aspire to polytheism. Druidic religions revere nature, while christians only see them as tools, or gifts from god. "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."" When the bible talks about revering nature it is more refering to graciously accepting and using the gifts of good for the general good.As for angels, angels are on a whole different level than god himself. They are fallible, there are plenty of references to angels falling, most notably lucifer. Angels have little or no affiliation with concepts, things, or virtues. You could argue things such as patron saints, which are stressed more in some denominations than others. They have their own will but not their own perogatives. They are merely messangers and agents. He delegates perfect will to them and they carry it out dutifully. And as for the garden being restored, I think that was only at the time of the second coming wasn't it?

Ummm, you know, I get a little worried when people from other religions start saying, "You know guys, your doing it all wrong, you should be like us, we're right." its like missionary work, with out the actual conversion.

After reading much about religions, and about churches, and all the good garbage that comes around in the field of faith, I've come to a conclusion.

Christians should strive to be more like the pagan lifestyle. They should thank G-d for food, they should recognize nature as something we need to protect and keep around, and we should be more at home in the nature surroundings then in cities and civilized culture.

the only difference that I see between the intent of Jesus's message and the actions of pagan lifestyles is the difference between multiple gods and only one G-d. But even that is kinda not true either, since the bible talks about angels being in charge of aspects of the world, and controling things for G-d, so the gods, as even the bible calls them, are there, just Christian thinking is that you thank the almighty and in pagan you think the entity aspect of the lesser.

Another point to bring up is that G-d intended for us to be in the Garden of Eden, and that Jesus said that the Garden is to be restored. Sounds like we were meant to live in nature with G-d's creations and gifts.
1. The word is God, not G-d.
2. Calling non-Christians pagan is only a sign of your arrogance and mental retardedness.
3. You have obviously no idea of what the Bible speaks about.
4. You have absolutely no clue where Eden is and where the named Garden is within it.
And now, for the sake of this planet, please stop breathing. :mad:

The Chronicles of Narnia right? I used to read that series back when I was in the 7th grade, pretty good stories...

Those were good, but were meant more for children. Lewis wrote numerous books and essays pertaining to more everyday religious matters.

He was very big on the idea of questioning to find your faith and also felt very strongly that anyone who says all other religions are completley wrong is basically being an idiot.

Edit: To clarify, Lewis was what is referred to as a Christian apologist, a writer who attempted to explain what and why Christians believe.

Christians -
Up until Jesus rose from the tomb, there was no Christianity.

The Pagan philosophies are actually much different than Christian philosophies.

Christians are people. They are not perfect. They do not always follow the laws and live the life of a Christian.

GOD G O D

what is up with "G-d"

that is borderline retarded

GOD G O D

what is up with "G-d"

that is borderline retarded

Do you always compare people's religious beliefs to an unfortunate medical condition?

Obviously you do not understand the meaning of the word "Pagan." It was used during Roman times to classify anyone of a religion that did not follow along with the Jewish/Christian ideologies. That covers SO many faiths. Many of them have similarities to the beliefs of Christianity. In fact, Christianity shares beliefs with almost EVERY religion. Comparing it to just one group of beliefs is unfair.
There is one thing to note, though. Some of the faiths classified as Pagan were guided by dark beliefs and had rituals that would be considered bad sins by Christianity.
You are choosing specific details to compare Christianity to something very broad and acting as if it cannot be almost universally applied. And on that note I would like to say one thing, every person can learn a good lesson or two from most religions.

1. The word is God, not G-d.
2. Calling non-Christians pagan is only a sign of your arrogance and mental retardedness.
3. You have obviously no idea of what the Bible speaks about.
4. You have absolutely no clue where Eden is and where the named Garden is within it.
And now, for the sake of this planet, please stop breathing. :mad:
1. Its G-d to me, because of people that wouldn't use my posts respectably
2. I'm talking about the pagan religions, do a search on them, earth religions, like the origanial term meant.
3. I know the bible very well, I read it quite often, in both english and hebrew, haven't gotten a greek one, though hebrew matthew is nice, since it was written first that way.
4. Eden was a place near Nod, in modern day Iraq, also where Babylon was formed near. The garden was placed inside it, and upon being removed form the Garden, cheribim and a flaming sword, sometimes related to Uriel, was placed to keep humans out

and now for the sake of this planet, stop being so sterotypicall and self rightous.

Obviously you do not understand the meaning of the word "Pagan." It was used during Roman times to classify anyone of a religion that did not follow along with the Jewish/Christian ideologies. That covers SO many faiths. Many of them have similarities to the beliefs of Christianity. In fact, Christianity shares beliefs with almost EVERY religion. Comparing it to just one group of beliefs is unfair.
There is one thing to note, though. Some of the faiths classified as Pagan were guided by dark beliefs and had rituals that would be considered bad sins by Christianity.
You are choosing specific details to compare Christianity to something very broad and acting as if it cannot be almost universally applied. And on that note I would like to say one thing, every person can learn a good lesson or two from most religions.
Obviously you don't know that the word pagan is older then Christianity, and was used by the Romans to describe the people that lived outside of the cities. It was later changed by the Roman Catholic church to mean no Christian, and then later changed to mean no Jewish, Islam, or Christian.

most of the 'dark' rituals that were described were done by 1. Caeser in his conquest of the Pagan Europe, in which he used proganda to make them out to be demons and 2. the early church to label anything other then Christian as Infidels that needed to be killed, burned etc.

I am talking about the earth religions, known as Pagan or Neo-Pagan, those found mainly in Europe.

Christians -
Up until Jesus rose from the tomb, there was no Christianity.

The Pagan philosophies are actually much different than Christian philosophies.

Christians are people. They are not perfect. They do not always follow the laws and live the life of a Christian.

GOD G O D

what is up with "G-d"

that is borderline retarded

Acutally Christiany started with his disciples, since it means, followers of Christ. It didn't start becomeing so wide spread until after his death and return.

G-d is a way to keep from disrespecting or destroying a name of the Ancient. It comes from the command to destroy all idols and to erase thier names, but not to do so with Shadd-i's name, and it also gets more uses because one is not supposed to use YHVH's name in vain uses.

its not borderline retarded, what is borderline retarded is insulting things that you yourself don't understand.

Ummm, you know, I get a little worried when people from other religions start saying, "You know guys, your doing it all wrong, you should be like us, we're right." its like missionary work, with out the actual conversion.

I'm not really saying that. I'm just saying that the two could both learn from eachother, and I feel that Christians should be more respectful to all of G-d's creations and to recognize that the Earth is important.

G-d ... also gets more uses because one is not supposed to use YHVH's name in vain uses.

its not borderline retarded, what is borderline retarded is insulting things that you yourself don't understand.
Exactly. You think these idiots would know something about Judaism. It's like they've never walked outside or read a damn book.

Now as for this whole pagan thing... ehh, bad idea. That'd never fly with the Christians. Pagan is a dirty word to them.
It'd probably just be easier to call the values you're upholding Conservationism... unless you wanted to be controversial... then that's different.

Oh, and CS Lewis is cool. Never read Narnia, but I like his religious work. Don't wholly agree with it, though.

I like your idea but I think factually you're a little off. Christianity doesn't very much concern itself with nature and certainly doesnt aspire to polytheism.

never said it did, in some ways it does.

Elohei Haelohim, means G-d of all gods. Its one of the names in the hebrew old testament, and in one part of I think its psalms that says that the angels are gods, using the same name that is G-d but with lower case.

Druidic religions revere nature, while christians only see them as tools, or gifts from god. "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."" When the bible talks about revering nature it is more refering to graciously accepting and using the gifts of good for the general good.

Druid belief was first structured around Father God and Mother Earth, and they held the elements in respect. Just as the early Hebrews held the angels in high regards. In many hebrew texts it talks about that angels being the aspects of nature, and in some texts it even talks about one angel as the father of all goyim faiths.

As for angels, angels are on a whole different level than god himself. They are fallible, there are plenty of references to angels falling, most notably lucifer.

they are on a differnt level, but they are the children of G-d They can fall, and have. The watchers fell when they married mortal women and made the nephillim. Satan fell after his rebelled as well. also, Lucifur is not Satan, its a mistranslated name, meant to remove the connection to the fallen babylon king and Jesus. The phrase was, oh how you have fallen, bright morning star. Later on in the new testament, Jesus is compared to the morning star. To keep it from being conected, the phrase was changed. The oldest angelic name for Satan would be Sammael.

Angels have little or no affiliation with concepts, things, or virtues. You could argue things such as patron saints, which are stressed more in some denominations than others. They have their own will but not their own perogatives. They are merely messangers and agents. He delegates perfect will to them and they carry it out dutifully.

Angels don't have affiliation with concepts, things or virtues in modern christian churchs, but did in hebrew concepts. Michael was the might of G-d and defender of the chosen people. Uriel was the Fire of G-d and was compared to the wrath of G-d as well as the flaming sword of Eden. Abbadon, the angel of the pit is the destroyer. Early chruch 'fathers' removed most of these concepts because they were worried people would start worshiping angels instead of G-d and Jesus.

And as for the garden being restored, I think that was only at the time of the second coming wasn't it?

Eden is also considered the Paradise, not just a location. Its the end result, a bringing of a full circle, a return to where G-d meant us to be.

Exactly. You think these idiots would know something about Judaism. It's like they've never walked outside or read a damn book.

Now as for this whole pagan thing... ehh, bad idea. That'd never fly with the Christians. Pagan is a dirty word to them.
It'd probably just be easier to call the values you're upholding Conservationism... unless you wanted to be controversial... then that's different.

Oh, and CS Lewis is cool. Never read Narnia, but I like his religious work. Don't wholly agree with it, though.

yeah, people tend to be Bobites. But pastor bob said this, but brother bob said that.

I call myself a Pagan Christain with Jewish understandings, lol. But only when I'm looking for odd looks and such. Also considered calling myself a Jewid, a Jew that was Taught by the Druids, and is seeking the light. Oh well, I guess I'm an odd one, but doesn't mean I'm wrong, does it?

What a strange and scarey thread.
I'm a Druid and although I hold many views in common with my christian friends their view that I'm really a mis-guided christian is just silly. I do not, consciously, harm others. I respect the earth and attempt to leave it improved from my passing rather than impoverished. All this talk of eden and god and angels just goes right over my head. It feels like stories for children to keep away the night frights. I hope that's not offensive. it's not meant to be. I just feel you're believing tales told to explain things in simpler times to simpler folks. If you are happy with that they great. I prefer to develop a belief system based on experience and open debate rather than doctrine (very old doctrine at that).
I respect and defend your right to hold your beliefs without interference. Will you do the same for me?

May your gods watch over you

Eternal green Rain

What a strange and scarey thread.
I'm a Druid and although I hold many views in common with my christian friends their view that I'm really a mis-guided christian is just silly. I do not, consciously, harm others. I respect the earth and attempt to leave it improved from my passing rather than impoverished. All this talk of eden and god and angels just goes right over my head. It feels like stories for children to keep away the night frights. I hope that's not offensive. it's not meant to be. I just feel you're believing tales told to explain things in simpler times to simpler folks. If you are happy with that they great. I prefer to develop a belief system based on experience and open debate rather than doctrine (very old doctrine at that).
I respect and defend your right to hold your beliefs without interference. Will you do the same for me?

May your gods watch over you

Eternal green Rain

I have respected most people and faiths. I may have comments here and there about how I personally feel about certain people and certain faiths, but I would think of myself as a very open minded person.

I wish there were more texts about the old druids, but such books have mainly been destroyed, or they are locked away. And even those written ones aren't the most true to druidic code, since the Celts didn't write things down, it was thier belief that it would lead to people forgetting things, or getting things mixed up and causing further fighting.

many of the stories were used to help people understand things, and I've learned to develop a perspective on things that allows me to see things more in concept form, rather then in black and white. From that stand point I can see where most old religions hold simalar concepts, and can be drawn together into a giant web that interconnects. That shows me that there is something out there, and that there is something in each religion that brings them together.

I respect your path, and I hope that the light you seek is found. May your awen be pure.

well, I am going nighty night now, so I will just check up on this thread later and respond accordingly.

Good night all, and may peace find all in the unwaking hours.


Shalom

I have respected most people and faiths. I may have comments here and there about how I personally feel about certain people and certain faiths, but I would think of myself as a very open minded person.

I wish there were more texts about the old druids, but such books have mainly been destroyed, or they are locked away. And even those written ones aren't the most true to druidic code, since the Celts didn't write things down, it was thier belief that it would lead to people forgetting things, or getting things mixed up and causing further fighting.

many of the stories were used to help people understand things, and I've learned to develop a perspective on things that allows me to see things more in concept form, rather then in black and white. From that stand point I can see where most old religions hold simalar concepts, and can be drawn together into a giant web that interconnects. That shows me that there is something out there, and that there is something in each religion that brings them together.

I respect your path, and I hope that the light you seek is found. May your awen be pure.

Thank you. I wish more people were as understanding and open minded as you are.
I have read a little on Druidic lore but mostly is seems to be victorian constuctions or neo-druid drivvel. I have heard some of the ancient welsh and Irish celtic storeis at eistedfford na dhave great respect for them but feel they don't really apply to me or to now. Much as I feel about the writings of most religions. How can I call myself a Druid if I don't follow the ancient writings?
These things are just labels are they not. "A rose by any other name...blah blah blah."
I call my self a druid and I'm often called a twit but either way it does not affetc the me that I am.

Just a general question here, what do people term as druid or druidic worship?

My understanding is that a Druid is a pre-Christian priest among the Celts of ancient Gaul and Britain and Ireland.
Much like a vicar or a priest or minister.
You don't worship druids, they are your spiritual leaders.
So in which case, who do you actually worship?
Who is your god or goddess?
What do you know about that religion and how it was practiced?
It is so easy to say I am a druid or I worship in the druidic way, without actually coming up with the goods.

(And before anyone jumps at me for being another Christian having a go, I follow no religion, I live by my own set of rules and ethics)

Just a general question here, what do people term as druid or druidic worship?

My understanding is that a Druid is a pre-Christian priest among the Celts of ancient Gaul and Britain and Ireland.
Much like a vicar or a priest or minister.
You don't worship druids, they are your spiritual leaders.
So in which case, who do you actually worship?
Who is your god or goddess?
What do you know about that religion and how it was practiced?
It is so easy to say I am a druid or I worship in the druidic way, without actually coming up with the goods.

(And before anyone jumps at me for being another Christian having a go, I follow no religion, I live by my own set of rules and ethics)
Each to there own. You are correct about the origins of druidry however a later revival re-invented the term. The druids I work with are nature loving pagans who use the term to loosely describe themselves. The attention to druidic practice varies between people. I personally use it as a title to avoid the vague descriptions I have to give of what I do in the woods on those dark dark nights.
My particualr grove works as one to carry out rites. We have no leader. Others do.
Like I said, each to there own.
Like any religion or belief system. Try it on for size if it doesn't fit don't use it.
I don't mind your critisism. I doesn't lessen me any and makes me examine myself again. Self awareness is always a good thing.

Now as for this whole pagan thing... ehh, bad idea. That'd never fly with the Christians. Pagan is a dirty word to them.
It'd probably just be easier to call the values you're upholding Conservationism... unless you wanted to be controversial... then that's different.

Pagan isn't a dirty word to me at all.

Oh, and CS Lewis is cool. Never read Narnia, but I like his religious work. Don't wholly agree with it, though.

Narnia actually is religious work, but in a metaphor sort of way. I thought they were great, for what they were supposed to be.

And I don't wholly agree with Lewis either - his view of love, for instance, is extremely screwed up, but I think he had quite a bit of truth in his writings.

Each to there own. You are correct about the origins of druidry however a later revival re-invented the term. The druids I work with are nature loving pagans who use the term to loosely describe themselves. The attention to druidic practice varies between people. I personally use it as a title to avoid the vague descriptions I have to give of what I do in the woods on those dark dark nights.
My particualr grove works as one to carry out rites. We have no leader. Others do.
Like I said, each to there own.
Like any religion or belief system. Try it on for size if it doesn't fit don't use it.
I don't mind your critisism. I doesn't lessen me any and makes me examine myself again. Self awareness is always a good thing.

My posting wasn't a critisism, I don't criticise peoples beliefs, they are theres to believe in as I have my own beliefs.
It was a question that I was interested in knowing the answer to.
From what you say about yourself you and the others with you, I would think that the better term would be Hedge wizards/warlocks than druids.
Though I can see why the terms you use is easier to grasp by others.

My posting wasn't a critisism, I don't criticise peoples beliefs, they are theres to believe in as I have my own beliefs.
It was a question that I was interested in knowing the answer to.
From what you say about yourself you and the others with you, I would think that the better term would be Hedge wizards/warlocks than druids.
Though I can see why the terms you use is easier to grasp by others.

the term druid means, one wise like the oak. not much is known about the orignal orders, though many theorize that they didn't have the same multitude of dieties that the celtic people in generally had. They were a more concentrated group that was solar based, unlike most moon based religions of their time. they used nature understandings, herbal lore, and such to practice, and they were said to ward off the darkness, and the spirits that defied the Divine ones.

neo-druids have stived to put together a new order, one that complements old legends and tales and what little has remained, but its not a continue of the old, since no one knows the secret workings. Modern Wiccan belief structures are used in most neo-druid or neo-pagan thelogy, and much of the wiccan structure is borrowed from other relgions, numorology from the hebrews, elemental understandings from alchemists, and much much more.

I find that I personally follow ethics that fall in line with more druidic or earth based understandings, though I wouldn't call myself a druid for 2 reasons, I am not learned enough to claim such a title, nor do I wish the negitive cognications that come with it by other 'christian' groups. I follow the perspective that you can follow a druid or pagan lifestyle and hold to a christian religion, since they don't conflict at all.

My posting wasn't a critisism, I don't criticise peoples beliefs, they are theres to believe in as I have my own beliefs.
It was a question that I was interested in knowing the answer to.
From what you say about yourself you and the others with you, I would think that the better term would be Hedge wizards/warlocks than druids.
Though I can see why the terms you use is easier to grasp by others.
Sorry I may have mis-read you.
It's difficult. The 30 or 40 people I regularly work rites with call themselves various things. hedge witch being one. But hedge witches try to work magics. I don't believe in magic in that sense but do believe in the inter-connected- ness (he he) of all things. You are probably right. In the classical definition I'm not a Druid but I bet there is debate over the classical definition of most religions. These things evolve (evolution is not always a dirty word :) ) which is surely a good thing.

I do have problems understanding Christian (or Islamic I 'spose) Druids.
The gods (small g) I revere are not something most christians could bear to think of and I'm accussed of mis-guided devil worship on enough occassions for it to become annoying.
But, hey, if you can carry it off good on you! You're welcome at any of our rites.

edit: As for negative conitations from christian groups I'm afraid that is a problem that they have to deal with. They seem to find me more threatening than I find them.

I'm not really saying that. I'm just saying that the two could both learn from eachother, and I feel that Christians should be more respectful to all of G-d's creations and to recognize that the Earth is important.

Well, thats true for everything, I mean we can learn alot from Judaism, Islam, Buddism... I once read this cool book by an Irish priest called Zen Christianit; kind of hertical, but still, cool... but thats beyond the point... didn't you start out by saying that Angles where just gods, and Christians where like, too stupid to realize it.. thats a tad harsh, blame it on protestants and pagans who say Catholics worship mary, there just too stupid to understand that they do... And I must point out, my best friend is a pagan, and she... ahem... is not a very good enviromentalist...

Oh, and about the name of God... I'm not sure God himself cares tooooooooo much about that... as long as we don't call him late for dinner, I guess...

This all kind of makes me think of Dar Williams' The Christians and the Pagans. It's a great song!

After reading much about religions, and about churches, and all the good garbage that comes around in the field of faith, I've come to a conclusion.

Christians should strive to be more like the pagan lifestyle. They should thank G-d for food, they should recognize nature as something we need to protect and keep around, and we should be more at home in the nature surroundings then in cities and civilized culture.

the only difference that I see between the intent of Jesus's message and the actions of pagan lifestyles is the difference between multiple gods and only one G-d. But even that is kinda not true either, since the bible talks about angels being in charge of aspects of the world, and controling things for G-d, so the gods, as even the bible calls them, are there, just Christian thinking is that you thank the almighty and in pagan you think the entity aspect of the lesser.

Another point to bring up is that G-d intended for us to be in the Garden of Eden, and that Jesus said that the Garden is to be restored. Sounds like we were meant to live in nature with G-d's creations and gifts.

I think the happy hippie stuff was added later... The original pagan manuscripts state you *must* die in battle in order to gain entrance to the holiest of holies when you're dead.