NationStates Jolt Archive

Let us take a look at the Sovet Union's plan to take down the United States of America, and see how many are implemented already, either by liberals in government or abroad. THe Soviets knew that no outside power would be able to take the US down -- it only could fall from inside out.

COMMUNIST GOALS OF 1963

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites. CHECK

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination. CHECK

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N. CHECK

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N. CHECK (NOTE: Outdated, obviously, but happened all the same)

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.) Half-Check Liberals in congress are trying to attempt this

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party. CHECK

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths. Half-Check Pledge of Alliegence, anyone?

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office. (Dunno about that one)

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. CHECK Democratic Party

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights. CHECK

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks. Half-Check I see signs of it, but there's resistance, thankfully.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions. Half-check (Practically all media people are far left wing.)

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures. Half-Check (See above.)

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms." CHECK

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art." CHECK

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press. HALF-CHECK

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV. CHECK

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy." CHECK

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state." CHECK

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis. HALF-CHECK Hasn't happened, but I see it a lot.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man." HALF-CHECK

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc. HALF-CHECK

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities. CHECK

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions. CHECK

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. HALF-CHECK I see this a lot, even on these forums.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents. CHECK

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.CHECK

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.


If you can think of anymore accomplished, post them here.

46. Create a web site, where you can generate your own country and find out
that communism can work!

That list is full of shit. The democrat party is not Marxist and never was, for one. This is typical conservative flamebait.

I don't consider HUAC a bright spot in American history. It was the closest thing to an Inquisition America has ever had.

The Communist party has as much right as any other to exist in America, and banning it was and is wrong and against the Constitution.

The Panama Canal should have gone back to Panama.

47. Kick Hot Espressos into crowed lifts CHECK

where did you get that list?

and if its real...

WOW did they miscalculate!

48. Outlaw tin foil so that protective head-ware cannot be fashioned from it in times of need. Not Yet Apparently we're still safe from the insidious propaganda of Communist Russia.

I agreed with roughly 2/3 of what you said should be preserved. Unfortunately, the other 1/3 were mostly labeled 'check'. It could be that the Communist incursion got to me or it could be that we differ in opinion. I'm not quite sure which.

Source?

Not to mention that all those mentioning soviet satellite states are defunct and as far as I know, however distasteful I am of the Democrat party, they are yet to call for workers to be given the means of production.

I can see how a few of these could have worked back in 1963, but come on. The "evil commies" aren't trying to take over anything, and communism is practicaly gone. The USSR collapsed ~15 years ago, Russia isn't gunning for America, and the other Soviet states are too small and insignificant internationally to do anything.

Secondly, the Democratic Party aren't even close to Communist. They have some liberal ideas, and they are further left than the Republicans which honestly isn't hard.

Thirdly, if the USSR wanted some of those things to happen, then good for them! Outlawing Communist parties is oppression, pure and simple. If the voters want a Communist president/prime minister/whatever, then they should be allowed one. What is ugly, meaningless art to one person may be beautiful and expressive to another. Should we burn (for example) the Mona Lisa just because someone doesn't like it? I am all for removing obscenity laws, at least in part. And even worse, the evil commies are trying to legalise homosexual marriage? Horror of horrors. They should have done it years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the USSR. But some of this scaremongering about commies coming from out of the closet to eat your babies is ludicrous.

Out of interest, where did you find this?

I am glad that those things did occur. They sound more like social progressives and civil rights activists than Communists, or maybe this is how Communists felt.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions. CHECK
Labor unions have, for the most part ,become less Communistic since 1963.

That's just one of the things that's wrong with the post. It's laughable that anyone thinks that the Democratic Party is Communist, so I have no idea why you put that one in there. And, of course, the fact that the Soviet Union wasn't Communist, either.

I am glad that those things did occur. They sound more like social progressives and civil rights activists than Communists, or maybe this is how Communists felt.

Well, most modern socialists are for more freedoms. Only the authoritarian socialists are for limiting them.

Let us take a look at the Sovet Union's plan to take down the United States of America, and see how many are implemented already, either by liberals in government or abroad.

The list you proceed to give was created by some crackpot morman in 1958.

The list you proceed to give was created by some crackpot morman in 1958.

You mean there isn't a file labled "Our evil plans Muhahahahahahahaha"?
:(

The Panama Canal is not under international control it is owned and under Panamanian control.

That list is full of shit. The democrat party is not Marxist and never was, for one. This is typical conservative flamebait.

Could you provide an example of TLF? (Typical Lefty Flamebait) as a counter example for us to judge?

Where did you get all that stuff.

Could you provide an example of TLF? (Typical Lefty Flamebait) as a counter example for us to judge?
Actually I have to agree with him. Some of it is BS. but the Democratic Party in America, is the American Communist Party. They just don't call it communism. They call it something else. But as you know, it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quaks like a duck....

but the Democratic Party in America, is the American Communist Party. They just don't call it communism. They call it something else. But as you know, it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quaks like a duck....
This is laughable.

Perhaps you could provide an example of the US Democrat party showing a desire to give the means of production to the workers? Or abolish private property?

I thought not.

Could you provide an example of TLF? (Typical Lefty Flamebait) as a counter example for us to judge?

Do a search for "The Red Arrow," "MKULTRA" or his most incarnation (no idea how to spell it, Skaprdoe or something)

Joe McCarthy? Is that you?

Joe McCarthy? Is that you?

Nah, I think it's John Iselin

This is laughable.

Perhaps you could provide an example of the US Democrat party showing a desire to give the means of production to the workers? Or abolish private property?

I thought not. So you think that is all communism is about?

So you think that is all communism is about?
Well, that is what Marx was writing about...

Well, that is what Marx was writing about...
I have a copy of the communist Manifesto (actually I have a small library of the greatest books of philosophy going back to Plato's Republic). Haven't gotten round to it yet. (I am currently reading a history of India). I did read part of it a couple of years back in a college class. The part we read showed that communism was about more than just privatization of property.
For example, communist goals included national healthcare, public education, equal rights for women and many other things. Now I suppose you are going to tell me that we don't have public education or equal rights for women? We don't have national healthcare but Canada and Europe do.

The list you proceed to give was created by some crackpot morman in 1958.
This prompted me to look, because without it I assumed that the list was compiled from back issues of Marvel's Iron Man comics...

But what ya know-It's on the congressional record (http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm). Its from a book written by an former member of the FBI (in a quick search I didn't see anything about his religous affiliation, don't think it really matters). Apparently there are still people railing on this-here (http://www.google.com/search?q=naked+communist&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official) is just page one of the google search on Naked Communist, with plenty of people like our thread author who are still fighting the 'cold war.' Even a ministries (http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/globalism/Communism.html) site that scoffs at the notion that politicians are running on the communist catch all "the common good"

And a Subaru owners club. I always knew those bastards where up to something.....

pity the didnt succeed most of those goals would certainly benefit America and the rest of the world today

COMMUNIST GOALS OF 1963

Summary: Try to prevent the USA from turning into an insane fascist dictatorship where opposition to the status quo is outlawed and citizens live in fear of being branded as "communists" and locked up after show trials. Try to convince the mad American war hawks that blowing up the world in a nuclear holocaust is not a good idea. Promote common sense and oppose right-wing extremism.

Frankly, that list just made the communists look like the good guys.

Even as someone who's no big fan of communism, I must say that the initial poster needs to chill out a bit. The democrat party in the states aren't communists. They're very moderate socialists at best. And as for the idea that communists are acting out their evil plans as we speak - relax. The USSR is long gone, and that was pretty much the international bastion of communism.

Derscon, you truly are paranoid aren't you? Like McCarthy you're convinced Communism is everwhere.

And like McCarthy, you seem to be ill-informed and delusional when it comes to real-world affairs.

Even as someone who's no big fan of communism, I must say that the initial poster needs to chill out a bit. The democrat party in the states aren't communists. They're very moderate socialists at best.
There is no socialist in this world who considers the Democrats to be anything other than the "less evil side", or the left wing of the Capitalist Business Party. They are liberals - L-I-B-E-R-A-L-S. To associate them with socialism is an insult to socialists.

Frankly, that list just made the communists look like the good guys.

Exactly.

"Let's start a conspiracy to get them to allow women to control their own bodies and stop them from treating homosexuals like dirt. Then we will make them institute social programs that will help millions of poor people. Soon those terrible Americans will fall!"

Everyone knows that the real reason capitalists hate socialism is because they are angry that they don't have a song as good as the Internationale.

Do a search for "The Red Arrow," "MKULTRA" or his most incarnation (no idea how to spell it, Skaprdoe or something)

I could but it would be much more enjoyable if she took the time to type one up.

I could but it would be much more enjoyable if she took the time to type one up.

Yeah right, TRA actually typing a thread topic out :rolleyes: :)

There is no socialist in this world who considers the Democrats to be anything other than the "less evil side", or the left wing of the Capitalist Business Party. They are liberals - L-I-B-E-R-A-L-S. To associate them with socialism is an insult to socialists.

Which was why I used the phrases "very moderate" and "at best". I was saying that they were nothing close to communists.

As far as Letila's inference that capitalists advocate homophobia and sexism, well I'm afraid that's just as stupid as what the original poster was saying.

I'm bored.

COMMUNIST GOALS OF 1963

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
Where's the check? It seems like the only ones we'll allow to co-exist are those who already have nuclear weapons.[/exageration]

But seriously-pretty sad that it would have to come to that, isn't it? "Let us be or we'll nuke you." Fuck, man. I'd be pissed to if I had to threaten people just to be left alone.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
Capitulate to what?

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
Who exactly is calling for total dissarmament? Though, you'd have to admit-if we did that would say something.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
Pffft. Of course we save that for dictators and guerilla fighters that fight against communism so that they can turn around in fifteen years and be something else to deal with-only this time they'll make a mark. Great. Good decision.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites. CHECK
Okay, yeah-but only after they opened their first McDonalds-so who is that really a victory for? (HINT: Wears a lot of face paint)

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination. CHECK
Sort of redundant.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N. CHECK
Okay, so which communists where we talking about here? Isn't this around the time of the Sino-China War? Is it the Ruskies or the Chinese-cause they didn't get along...

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N. CHECK (NOTE: Outdated, obviously, but happened all the same)
Moot.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
Damn, they work-how much of the Nevada desert do you need to blow up?

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
Why not? (padding the vote, right? seems petty)

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.) Half-Check Liberals in congress are trying to attempt this
Site this. Where are they trying to set it up as one world government? I still don't get the whole "anti-UN" thing...we seem like kids who want to take our ball and go home because one thing didn't go our way...

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party. CHECK
Curse that freedom thing-we all knew it would bite us in the ass!

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths. Half-Check Pledge of Alliegence, anyone?
Just the 'under god' part-hardly even a half check. And I thought that the propoganda had the communists doing loyalty oaths. This is just confusing. Read Catch 22 it becomes funny.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office. (Dunno about that one)
Wha?

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. CHECK Democratic Party
Dealt with by others. Just to add-remember that whole thing about the formation of our country? Where they took as many good ideas as they could and tried to make them work? It means that you can take a good idea from something and still not be 'communist,' like health care etc. The main tenant is that the workers own the means of production. Without that it really isn't communism.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights. CHECK
Loaded. Put that away before you hurt someone.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks. Half-Check I see signs of it, but there's resistance, thankfully.
I've got a ten-foot pole around here somewhere...

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
Great. Maybe we can get some better comic strips..

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
Can't unravel this. Seems pretty loaded again.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions. Half-check (Practically all media people are far left wing.)
Media is owned by the same few people, all part of large corporations. They control content. Sorry, this cry wolf just don't work anymore.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures. Half-Check (See above.)
Nope.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms." CHECK
Lenny Bruce-"You take away the ability to say 'fuck' you take away the ability to say 'Fuck the government.' The same obscenity laws that where used against porn was used against political speech. Can't have one without the other.

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art." CHECK
Pff. Half the 'beautiful' stuff during its time was regarded as hideious. Deal.

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press. HALF-CHECK
See Bruce quote above.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV. CHECK
And yet we entertained complaints about the opening ceremonies of the damn Olympics....

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy." CHECK
I think this guys agenda is starting to show more than the communist one is...


I'm more bored than when I started....I'll just go...

I could but it would be much more enjoyable if she took the time to type one up.
Pretty sure he's a dude.

I just have to ask, where is all this American liberal media? Apparently practically all media people are liberals? Does that include the ninety odd percent of however many thousands of shock-jock-type radio stations are so insanely right wing that anywhere else on earth a party representing their views would be trashed by the Baby Eating Puppy Kickers Party? And does it include Fox? Because if those things are liberal, I absolutely can not wait for the end of the world, and I don't want to hear about the opposite of liberalism, as I've just eaten.

Morrre to the point, though, those aren't communist goals, are they? They're presented as goals of one of the factions that at one time or another dominated the previous incarnation of Russian empire, which any gigantic tortoise or ball of wool could see has nothing much to do with communism. That is assuming that the list is what it's claimed to be.

Looking at it again. Wow, I seem to be a Communist!

I apologize in advance for not understanding this thing. Is this plan real or not? Was this an real thing or just made up by some crazy person? Thank you for a response.

Well, when I said "add," I meant "were any more accomplished" not add your own goals.

For those of you stating that "this is BS because it is outdated," duh. That's why it is called the Communist Goals of 1963.

Again, these goals were (I'm Pretty sure) the Soviet Union's outline to take down the United States. While some of these I don't mind occuring, such as the legalization of the Communist Party (actually, that's really the only one), you have to remember: these goals were the ones that the Soviet Union had for the downfall of America. As in, if the majourity of these are accomplished, America will rip apart by its seams and collapse. None of these points are mine.

Also, about the media. Many people outside the US do not see the media as left-wing because they are so far out there as to think Ghandi was a capitalist dictator. Technically, people see it as perception, but the Political Compass website brings up a good point -- just because the world is leftwing does not change the fact that it is left wing. "Centrist" does not change because a lot of people started thinking one way or another.

Cut short, dinner time.

Also, about the media. Many people outside the US do not see the media as left-wing because they are so far out there as to think Ghandi was a capitalist dictator. Technically, people see it as perception, but the Political Compass website brings up a good point -- just because the world is leftwing does not change the fact that it is left wing. "Centrist" does not change because a lot of people started thinking one way or another.
This is true, but simply because many people in the US see the media as being left wing doesn't mean it is. Most of the same people see the media as favoring the Democratic Party, which, whether or not it's true, is further evidence that the media is not left wing, as the Democratic Party is not left wing.

As far as Letila's inference that capitalists advocate homophobia and sexism, well I'm afraid that's just as stupid as what the original poster was saying.

It's an undeniable fact that many do.

COMMUNIST GOALS OF 1963

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. CHECK Democratic Party

ahahaha!! Right about here, your "list" ran entirely out of credibility.

Actually I have to agree with him. Some of it is BS. but the Democratic Party in America, is the American Communist Party. They just don't call it communism. They call it something else. But as you know, it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quaks like a duck....
There is an actual American Communist Party. The Democratic Party's platform has very little in common with communist ideology. They are slightly to the left of Republicans, but as has been said, that isn't hard.

We don't have national healthcare but Canada and Europe do.
Are you seriously going to argue that Canada is a communist country?

Also, about the media. Many people outside the US do not see the media as left-wing because they are so far out there as to think Ghandi was a capitalist dictator.

Technically, people see it as perception, but the Political Compass website brings up a good point -- just because the world is leftwing does not change the fact that it is left wing. "Centrist" does not change because a lot of people started thinking one way or another.
You really know nothing about non-Americans, do you? Nobody thinks that Ghandi was a capitalist dictator. Most of us in Europe are political moderates. Some European politics lean left, while the US politics leans right.

I am familiar the Political Compass website and I have never anywhere seen it say that the world is left-wing. BTW, that same website shows John Kerry to be right-wing.

It's quite apparent that Derscon's list is a crock, and that he only put it here to further his socially authoritarian agenda by demonising libertarians.

Athouritarian?!?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

And here I thought you were intelligent. So, I'm athouritarian because my political compass happens to be above the axis? Athouritarian? Just because I don't want anarchy doesn't mean I'm super-athouritarian.

Besides, athourity in this sense is an absolute nessessity for a society to run. A society MUST HAVE a set of decency, or it will fall apart at the seams. There must be consequences for stupid and or immoral behaviour. There IS a defined Right and Wrong, unlike most believe that it is one massive gray area. There MUST be standards, or society will collapse.

Oh, and the Ghandi thing was a hyperbole. An exaggeration. You of all people should have seen it as it was, Swimmingpool. You disappoint me.

And here I thought you were intelligent. So, I'm athouritarian because my political compass happens to be above the axis? Athouritarian? Just because I don't want anarchy doesn't mean I'm super-athouritarian.

To an anarchist it does ;)

Besides, athourity in this sense is an absolute nessessity for a society to run.

The CNT seemed to funstion ok.

A society MUST HAVE a set of decency, or it will fall apart at the seams.

And what is this sense of decency?

There must be consequences for stupid and or immoral behaviour.

Define immoral.

There IS a defined Right and Wrong, unlike most believe that it is one massive gray area.

Maybe you should publish your findings quick. You could make a lot of money seeing as philosophers have been arguing over that for centuries (and possibly millenia)

There MUST be standards, or society will collapse.

What are these standards?

I find it ironic that the media that is the most Right wing and anti-commie, is the one contributing the most to the 'moral downfall of America'. I don't beleive in your Imperial Blue morals, but I think the OC is disgusting.

Athouritarian?!?!?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

And here I thought you were intelligent. So, I'm athouritarian because my political compass happens to be above the axis? Athouritarian? Just because I don't want anarchy doesn't mean I'm super-athouritarian.

Besides, athourity in this sense is an absolute nessessity for a society to run. A society MUST HAVE a set of decency, or it will fall apart at the seams. There must be consequences for stupid and or immoral behaviour. There IS a defined Right and Wrong, unlike most believe that it is one massive gray area. There MUST be standards, or society will collapse.

Oh, and the Ghandi thing was a hyperbole. An exaggeration. You of all people should have seen it as it was, Swimmingpool. You disappoint me.
I don't support anarchy, but in that other thread you started, I remember you professing some views which I regard as fairly authoritarian. I'm not saying you're like Hitler or anything like that, but you are more authoritarian (yes, that is how it is spelled) than most.

im still pretty sure that they arent real but

DAMN

they sure did miscalculate! they are defunct and we have dozens of great social improvements.

THANK YOU SOVIET UNION!

I don't support anarchy, but in that other thread you started, I remember you professing some views which I regard as fairly authoritarian. I'm not saying you're like Hitler or anything like that, but you are more authoritarian (yes, that is how it is spelled) than most.

That is how it's spelled? Oh. I'm an American, obviously, and I'm trying to spell things the actual (British) way, but I don't know when you do or don't add the extra "u"'s. Sorry, I'm just learning. :D

Than most? No, not than most. Then again, it depends where you live, too. Around where I am, I'm actually fairly libertarian. I bet you never want to move here, do you. :P In Europe, I'd probably be seen as a facist.

Besides, my views do tend to change a lot, as I've addressed in a previous thread (don't remember which one). I am always looking to enlighten myself, and so far, most of this has turned me to capitalism and slightly-athouritarian governance. Hell, I experimented with total communism for a while, trying to convince myself it was right. I did for awhile, but I just couldn't get myself to stay with it, as I felt it was bogus.

Instead of naming its own candidate for the 2004 elections, the Communist Party decided to back Howard Dean. If that isn't a sign that the Dems is in deep shit. Then what is?

When they start doing things like ditching their symbol because of the colors, then it is too late.......

But that does not make the Reps any better.

What we need to realize is that the parties are obselete. We need new stronger parties, parties that are not afraid to stand up and say no to those special interest groups, corporations, or anything else that tries to alter their goals or ways, parties that are flexible and know that maybe their way of thinking isn't right for some situations, branch out a little and compromise better instead of being total arses towards each other and stalling.

Lastly, we need parties that won't compromise our nation's security in times of war. Let's see, both parties have made the War On Terror very useless. I could name a thousand reasons why but that is innappropriate here.

Although, two of them, the weakening of the schools and education and open borders are the keys to our failure and subsequent destruction. How can we succeed when people have no sense of geography and history? How can we succeed just by fighting overseas while underminding it by letting enemies come in and out of this country like it was a mall? Even the smallest mall has better security than our borders now that I think about it.

Okay, first I would like to say that this guy makes so much sense, he's completely changed my mind about everything with the outdated material, a lot of which I would love to find out where he got it from. Boy, I've read a lot of Marx, but now I'm on a mission to find where he says to promote pornography and obscenity, the last time I even saw a mention of this, it was in a work by some insane right wing nut job and come to think of it until today it was the only time. As for presenting homosexuality as natural, well I have to say that this is only the 21st century, I guess we really don't need to be equal, it's not like America was established based on the principle. And whoa, I'd really like to know where Americans get such big heads, it's history isn't just a minor part of the big picture, no of course not, I agree it's not like there isn't a whole world out there that's not America. Finally I want to point out how utterly stupid it is to try to destroy a belief system such as this based on the fact that it tried to make it illegal to be made illegal by others. Well, that just doesn't make any sense at all, here I am thinking that in America all parties are welcome, of course not the Communist Party though because we would hate to offend someone.

Than most? No, not than most. Then again, it depends where you live, too. Around where I am, I'm actually fairly libertarian. I bet you never want to move here, do you. :P In Europe, I'd probably be seen as a facist.
Where in America do you live? I do not live in a place that considers my views moderate. In Ireland, abortion remains illegal. Many of my friends see me as an extreme libertarian, because I think it's a good idea for drugs and abortion to be legalised, while they are mostly anti-drugs rights (well, a few support marajuana) and pro-life. Some of them also find my desire for the government to cut back welfare programmes to be scary. ;)

Besides, my views do tend to change a lot, as I've addressed in a previous thread (don't remember which one). I am always looking to enlighten myself, and so far, most of this has turned me to capitalism and slightly-athouritarian governance. Hell, I experimented with total communism for a while, trying to convince myself it was right. I did for awhile, but I just couldn't get myself to stay with it, as I felt it was bogus.
I myself used to be a conservative socialist, if you can believe that! However, as I have become more capitalist, more in favour of economic freedom, I have also become more in favour of personal freedom too.

Where in America do you live? I do not live in a place that considers my views moderate. In Ireland, abortion remains illegal. Many of my friends see me as an extreme libertarian, because I think it's a good idea for drugs and abortion to be legalised, while they are mostly anti-drugs rights (well, a few support marajuana) and pro-life.

I live around in PA. Where, exactly, I'm not telling you :p, but around. Granted, I must apologize for saying I seem like a libertarian. Around my friends, I do, as they are -- while supporting my stance on economic freedom -- they are more for controlling the people themselves as to make US a semitheocracy. Ironically, I'm the religious fundie, yet the more of a social liberal! (relatively speaking) :)

Some of them also find my desire for the government to cut back welfare programmes to be scary. ;)

God Bless you. :D


I myself used to be a conservative socialist, if you can believe that!

O_o What the hell? :confused:

However, as I have become more capitalist, more in favour of economic freedom,

Yay! :)

I have also become more in favour of personal freedom too.

Actually, same. While I'm not quite up to par on drugs and abortion with you, I am an overall supporter of civil rights. People may think I'm not because of my stance against things like Affirmative Racis...er...Action, but I believe that with a free market and a free people, I believe anything is possible.

(Granted, people call me a racist for saying that businesses have the right to employ workers based on race, too. The consumer, then, has a right not to buy from them, effectively running them out of business. The joys of capitalism. :))

You and I aren't really that different, come to think of it. We both believe in minor restrictions and freedom, but on opposite "axes," so to speak. I'm in favour of eco. rights, and you social rights.

And yes, I'm sure you know I can jump around. After all, not a few months ago PoliComp classified me as an 8.63, 6.00, and now I'm 7.00,0.63. :)

O_o What the hell? :confused:

Not conservative in the American sense, more socially conservative and restricting freedom to "guard the morality of society".

This prompted me to look, because without it I assumed that the list was compiled from back issues of Marvel's Iron Man comics...

But what ya know-It's on the congressional record (http://www.uhuh.com/nwo/communism/comgoals.htm). Its from a book written by an former member of the FBI (in a quick search I didn't see anything about his religous affiliation, don't think it really matters). Apparently there are still people railing on this-here (http://www.google.com/search?q=naked+communist&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official) is just page one of the google search on Naked Communist, with plenty of people like our thread author who are still fighting the 'cold war.' Even a ministries (http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/globalism/Communism.html) site that scoffs at the notion that politicians are running on the communist catch all "the common good"

And a Subaru owners club. I always knew those bastards where up to something.....
yeah i just looked it up, its from "Naked Communist" by W. Cleon Skousen, a rabid anti-communist from utah. every possible social ill that can be thought up by a conservative mormon turns out to be on the agenda of international communism. go figure.

but in any case it was written that long ago and many of the things he predicted have come to pass. it must be VERY upsetting to him; he is still alive and still writing.

i guess all id like to say to him is "sorry about your luck"

Not conservative in the American sense, more socially conservative and restricting freedom to "guard the morality of society".

Well, you have to say that. Remember, I'm an American. :p :D

Although, I should have thought of what you meant. I myself am trying to stop using the phrase "conservative" and "liberal."

Well, you have to say that. Remember, I'm an American. :p :D

Although, I should have thought of what you meant. I myself am trying to stop using the phrase "conservative" and "liberal."
Yeah the terms "conservative" and "liberal" are there to describe social attitudes and I find it very wrong that Americans say "liberal economics" unaware that economic liberalism is about removing regulation and granting high levels of economic freedom!

Shoot! Swimmingpool pointed it out before me!

The Democrats are not liberal. Liberalism essentially was created by intellectuals promoting lassiez faire(sp?), ultimate freedom(full suffrage, no slavery, etc.), NO government welfare. The Democrats are conservatives who are less conservative than the Republicans. You might even if you want to be extreme call them semi-social democratic, although they are not at all like their European counterparts.

In 1963 the Soviet Union basically relied on as Khrushchev said: "We will bury you". This nice illustrative qoute was later explained by Nikita himself to mean not the Soviet Union, but the working class of America. In short: They did not have evil plans to influence Hollywood, television, newspapers, Democrats(lol), etc. They waited for Soviets to spring up across America and spread throughout the world.

I agree with the claim that the USSR was not communist, it was Socialist Authoritarian. It got stuck in the transition it started after the Civil War(the Russian that is) from capitalism to communism, which it never reached and it seems it would never have had if it would have lasted.

About claiming that Soviet satellites should have UN votes: US satellites have votes, why not let other countries' satellites have separate votes? I am 99% positive that Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, German Democratic Republic, Czechoslovakia, and Poland all had votes by the way.

That list is compiled by some reactionary.

I am myself social democrat, slightly more rightwing leaning than mainstream but by no means conservative.

I do believe that the USSR should not have fallen like it did, compare international stability and welfare of the peoples in the former soviet republics. If only Andropov had lived slightly longer...