NationStates Jolt Archive

Just wondering which empire you believe was the greatest in world history, could you also include your reasons. I purposely havent included ancient empires e.g. Rome, Greece and Egypt as i dont think they can be proporly compared but feel free to comment on them. Its more accurately the greatest empire of the post industrial age

I personally voted for the British Empire as at its prime it covered 1/4 of the globe and was the most powerful force in the world at that time, it played major roles in 2 world wars (perhaps if it wasnt because of them it would still be around in force today) and was the base for every english speaking country in the world. It also gave the world many scientific breakthroughs through people like Newton and Flemming.

i'd go with the mongol empire, the largest land empire every, perhaps at its peak the largest percentage of the worlds population under one rules as well(i'm not absolutely sure on that one).

I'd say the German Empire, circa 1880. They didn't abuse their power like the English and French would have in their position, and that in itself is admirable.

You are missing a million other Empires, not to mention the Mongol Empire, the 2nd largest ever(I think it was about 1,000,000 KM smaller than the British. Or was it 1,000 km?)

Oh, to answer the question...

Carthage! ^^

:) US. At least we like to promote democracy in SOME places, and don't trample EVERYONE's rights.

i know im missing alot of empires it would be impossible to state them all and i freely admit i dont know of all of them but add other empires you think should be recognised

Rome springs to mind.

I'm not in this one either! :D :( :D

On deciding which empire is best try to look at it like this: compare them as though they were all at their prime and the technological advancement that occurs over time doesnt make any difference (e.g. the modern us would destroy the british empire of 1900 but if they had the same technological level????), also dont just look at military conquest look at scientific and cultural advancement.

Austria-Hungary! The ONLY Empire to achieve it's war aims in WW1!

Pity they lost the war...

A few years ago, I would've said Rome. However, I've learned more about it, and I don't like it. Slavery is one thing, but killing off entire slave staffs just because one was suspected of murder? This is one of the many problems I now have with that ancient and ultimately dead empire.

They were the real barbarians.

I would have to vote Rome, just look at what it was.

Or Atlantis :)

Fluffywuffy is the greatest empire ever. We will kill you until you die from it. Oh, wait...

I would vote the Mongol empire. One of the largest empires in the world, and one which was almost unbeatable.

Muslim Empire under Abbasid and Ummayad Caliphates were large and had huge growth.

The biggest power gap ever has been the US, so I guess it is the greatest?
I don't like the brits, but they were pretty huge...
France has had its time...
I abhor Rome...

Actually, I'd say the Germanic Tribes are the most powerful, and really should be counted as one Empire ;).
Thats US + Brit + France + Germany + Spain = Ownage.

Fluffywuffy is the greatest empire ever. We will kill you until you die from it. Oh, wait...

I would vote the Mongol empire. One of the largest empires in the world, and one which was almost unbeatable.

Almost

Thank goodness the Japanese were better than those silly Mongols.

As far as ancient empires go i would either vote for Rome or one of the really old ones like the Sumarians

Almost

Thank goodness the Japanese were better than those silly Mongols.

If i remember my history correctly, you call a lucky storm better?

Britain!

Rome most definitely, if you're looking not only at an Empire at one period of time but its stability over generations. It was around for 1200 years, and was continued through the Byzantines for much longer. It extended from North Britain to Nubia, and from Gibraltar to Syria. At its height, Rome itself had around 1 million inhabitants. They developed the first rudimentary factories and built roads and bridges that are still used today. They developed an elaborate republican system with many checks and balances to assure power never resided with one man (which of course happened eventually, but the system worked for 700 years). If you are looking for an empire at one time, then I would say Alexander's Empire, or the British Empire, or the Mongols...

If i remember my history correctly, you call a lucky storm better?

It was partially due to the storm, but the Mongols were still vastly inferior to the shock troops of Japan (known as the Samurai). Not to mention, their ships sucked big time.

Rome invented concrete. Can you imagine a world without concrete?
Rome lasted for longer than any other empire to date, can you argue with longevity?
Rome left a legacy that outlived it for centuries. After Rome fell, people were trying to re-create its glory even into the 20th century.

Nobody can beat Rome. The US is very close historically, and a large number of parallels can be drawn, but we have yet to prove ourselves to be in the same league with them.

Greatest Emperor: Sargon the Great, the man invented conquest, and therefore: the idea of Empires.

Say the British empire was still as powerful today, that would be a force to be recogned with, Ok i know it couldnt be but imagine that it had one the american war for independance or WW1 and WW2 had never happened. I believe that had the victorian ethic of exploration and discovery had continued with the British empire we would be on Mars by now.

Rome invented concrete. Can you imagine a world without concrete?
Rome lasted for longer than any other empire to date, can you argue with longevity?
Rome left a legacy that outlived it for centuries. After Rome fell, people were trying to re-create its glory even into the 20th century.

Nobody can beat Rome. The US is very close historically, and a large number of parallels can be drawn, but we have yet to prove ourselves to be in the same league with them.

Greatest Emperor: Sargon the Great, the man invented conquest, and therefore: the idea of Empires.


Byzantine actually lasted longer. ;)

A few years ago, I would've said Rome. However, I've learned more about it, and I don't like it. Slavery is one thing, but killing off entire slave staffs just because one was suspected of murder? This is one of the many problems I now have with that ancient and ultimately dead empire.

They were the real barbarians.
I will have to disagree with you. Although the practice of slavery and everything that goes along with it is barbaric to modern standards, slavery was simply a way of life back then, and was actually mostly far better than slavery in the American south. Most slaves were house slaves, which many times became part of the family of their masters and were usually freed either in the master's will or sooner. Of the multitudes of Graves outside Rome on the Appian Way, many were built by slaves expressing grief at their master's death. Around 50 BCE, one of the richest men in Rome, Sergius Paulus, was murdered. His slaves were to be executed , but then it was found in his will that not only his house slaves but every slave he had owned was freed and given a modest sum to begin a living. Although in some cases in Rome slavery was a truly evil institution, in others it wasn't as bad as many think it was.

Well, then they just like to show Rome's dark side on the History Channel. I think it's funny that they do that.

Rome invented concrete. Can you imagine a world without concrete?
Rome lasted for longer than any other empire to date, can you argue with longevity?
Rome left a legacy that outlived it for centuries. After Rome fell, people were trying to re-create its glory even into the 20th century.

Nobody can beat Rome. The US is very close historically, and a large number of parallels can be drawn, but we have yet to prove ourselves to be in the same league with them.
I agree with you on all points except one. Actually, the Egyptian Empire lasted longer, but for much of it's later life it was a puppet state of Rome permitted to retain power only because they were weak and were a source of tribute. And actually, I don't think the US is close to Rome. The US has only lasted for 230 years tops.

I would have to say the Anglo-American alliance, next Eurasia, and third Eastasia. Ingsoc was definetly better govenors then the Neo-Bolshiveks. They were not as overwhelmingly watchful of there population as Ingsoc.

The Big Brother of The Seperatist states
"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength"

:confused: :confused: read 1984 :confused: :confused:

I voted for the British Empire because it was the best option under the circumstances. The French Empire seems a hypocrisy to me as they kept losing land after Industrialization hit. Germany and Japan could not even hold their Empires to together for a decade. The USSR an empire but it was only held down through use of force, in order to be considered I feel that the "conquered" people must become loyal to the "conqueror." That leaves only the US and Britain. America does not have an Empire. Guam, Peurto Rico, the Marshall Islands, the Soloman Islands, Diego Garcia, bases in the Phillipines, South Korea, Japan, Germany, and Itlay. Not enough to be considered an Empire. The British controlled 1/4th of the globe but as was proved time and time again their Empire was dependent on the complacency of their subjects, in America and India Britain was unable to hold down their colonies once they stopped allowing themselves to be ruled by Britain. But I would have voted for Alexander's Greece, the Roman Empire (not Republic) or the Mongol Empires before voting for Britain.

Almost

Thank goodness the Japanese were better than those silly Mongols.

As I recall, it was the Vietnamese that defeated the Mongols without the aid of a huge storm to destroy a significant portion of their military.

The half of the Mongol fleet that survived to land in Japan was defeated partially because they had very few supplies. They starved to death if they weren't killed by samurais.

The Macedonians. Their peak was very short, but they dominated so much in so little time.

Well, off the list I'd say the British empire.

But I'd say Rome...lasted thousands of years in one form or another...and if you want to consider what Mussolini had taken as actually being an empire, then it even made it into the 20th century.

Rome.

It's influence can be seen today.

I voted British, but would have chosen Rome if possible. Their level of technology & organisation was amazing.

The Mongols, clearly.

I personally cannot vote for Rome. In terms of length, size, and influence, sure Rome takes the cake. However, they treated their people like absolute scum . Only the rich had power, and the poor were stepped on and not even cared about. They were basically considered as human resources, which is hugely disgusting in any country.

As far as the greatest empire goes, I would vote Greece based on what I know about it. Through their history, they had holdings in from Italy all the way to India. The Greeks were the forefathers of Roman culture and Romans themselves. Their culture was spread to basically everywhere in the known world. Laying foundations for democracy (however flawed the Athenians were), Socialism (look at Sparta), and other acheivements, it could be argued that Greece was the most influential empire in history.

Rome's lasting legacy was its culture and architectural acheivements. However, they basically copied Greek culture, since they were essentially Greek.

However, off the list I would say the British Empire. The amount of organization it would take to manage an empire than spans 1/4 of the world is amazing.

What about the Mongul empire? You know, that one that included almost all of Asia?

What about the Mongul empire? You know, that one that included almost all of Asia?

Indeed it was quite impressive, especially that system of messengers. However, the British were all over the world. They not only had a land empire, they had a seaborne one too. When you think about it, being able to have communication in an empire that had colonies in America, South America, the Carribbean, Africa, India, Southeast Asia, and China, is far more impressive.

THE Empire, man! Nobody messes with Palpatine!

Sith

i'd go with the mongol empire, the largest land empire every, perhaps at its peak the largest percentage of the worlds population under one rules as well(i'm not absolutely sure on that one).

i agree with you

Yeah, the Mongol empire may have been fantastic and all, but what did they actually do... Ride around on horses and get dysentery, rape and pillage there little hearts.

Cool, positive contribution guys

British Empire, Officially non existent post WW2

Good
Beat Germany twice
Created India out of several warring city states, gave it infrastructure, health system education system, legal system
Colonised American and gave them an economy before they got all ungrateful.
Invented industry, hell the entire world
Invented most of the worlds modern essentials, TV Car, Train, ect you name it probally bar yes even the programmable computer
Colonised Australia, New Zealand (well screw the Dutch), Canada(the French version was gay)
First country ever to abolish slavery
Pretty much made the legal system used by 2/3 of the world
Invented modern democracy (no i hear you cry, first ever republic after the roman one fell, was created in 1648 by Oliver Cromwell, the idea of life liberty justice, that came from the levellers.


Bad
Wrecked China, but hell it weren’t great to start with, how is it our fault there all opium junkies.
I don’t know Africa blames us for quite a lot, but consider most of them are worse off now, screw em.

Yeah, the Mongol empire may have been fantastic and all, but what did they actually do... Ride around on horses and get dysentery, rape and pillage there little hearts.

Cool, positive contribution guys

British Empire, Officially non existent post WW2

Good
Beat Germany twice
Created India out of several warring city states, gave it infrastructure, health system education system, legal system
Colonised American and gave them an economy before they got all ungrateful.
Invented industry, hell the entire world
Invented most of the worlds modern essentials, TV Car, Train, ect you name it probally bar yes even the programmable computer
Colonised Australia, New Zealand (well screw the Dutch), Canada(the French version was gay)
First country ever to abolish slavery
Pretty much made the legal system used by 2/3 of the world
Invented modern democracy (no i hear you cry, first ever republic after the roman one fell, was created in 1648 by Oliver Cromwell, the idea of life liberty justice, that came from the levellers.


Bad
Wrecked China, but hell it weren’t great to start with, how is it our fault there all opium junkies.
I don’t know Africa blames us for quite a lot, but consider most of them are worse off now, screw em.
And Rome basically colonized you, ungateful brits.

You forgot many important ones to human history, like the Persians, Romans, or Mongols.
I chose the Brits, btw. Their empire was fantastic, and it planted the seeds of peace, liberty, and prosperity throughout the world.

Rome. . .ROME. . .rome. . .Rome

I'd like to know who voted for the French ...

The only war the French ever won was the French Revolution. And that was against themselves.

Where is Alexanders Empire, the Roman Empire, the Persian and Chinese Empires, all of those deserve to be in the list.

Though being British, naturally I would still argue on our behalf.

i'd go with the mongol empire, the largest land empire every, perhaps at its peak the largest percentage of the worlds population under one rules as well(i'm not absolutely sure on that one).

No. The British Empire was just larger than the Mongol Empire as a land mass. It also had over 600 million people living within its borders at its peak.

I would say it's the greatest Empire not just on the basis of relative power, prestige and size but also because it gave something back. It brought the industrial revolution, modernisation and the Enlightenment to other countries. There was a lot of bad to, but it did a lot of good. Perhaps because it beat the Kaiser, perhaps because it spread democracy and the rule of law, or perhaps because it widened the world and opened it up with the English languagE? It also offered a great deal of protection. It was an Empire of mutual benefits.

i'd go with the mongol empire, the largest land empire every, perhaps at its peak the largest percentage of the worlds population under one rules as well(i'm not absolutely sure on that one)

Personally I don't think that JUST the size of an Empire should make it superior to all others. I agree completely about Britian with Biggleses, eventhough I did not vote for them. But a small, strong Empire can impose a greater influence globally than a large Empire. I mean Germany wasn't the largest, but it rose from a war batterd nation into an economic superpower.

As I recall, it was the Vietnamese that defeated the Mongols without the aid of a huge storm to destroy a significant portion of their military.

The half of the Mongol fleet that survived to land in Japan was defeated partially because they had very few supplies. They starved to death if they weren't killed by samurais.

I'd like to see some proof, please.

Also, the Japanese had a better culture, a better army, a better...well, everything! Even if the Mongols had landed on Japan, they could never conquer it. The Japanese are so fanatical, they would fight the Mongols with chop-sticks if they needed too. They weren't the sissy Chinese.

Of course, the Mongols would have left anyhoo. You really can't use alot of Horse Infantry in the mountains(which is what a lot of Japan is covered by).

And the Mongols weren't the best Island-hoppers.

I have to go with the Mongols, they established the Pax-Mongolica which allowed people to travel once again from Europe to East Asia in relative safety, and they also had the largest continuous land empire in history. Also if it wasn't for the stupid Tsunami's, Japan would've been owned. Rome, Han China, and the British Empire come a close second.

I'd like to know who voted for the French ...

The only war the French ever won was the French Revolution. And that was against themselves.

Actually, the French can win, so long as they aren't commanded by a Frenchman. Joan of Arc? Check. Napoleon? Check. :cool:

I have to go with the Mongols, they established the Pax-Mongolica which allowed people to travel once again from Europe to East Asia in relative safety, and they also had the largest continuous land empire in history. Also if it wasn't for the stupid Tsunami's, Japan would've been owned. Rome, Han China, and the British Empire come a close second.

Um... a 40 MILLION death toll does not a Pax Anything make!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_empire

Um... a 40 MILLION death toll does not a Pax Anything make!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_empire
Well, after the battles and massacres there was a Pax Mongolica that reconnected the East and West again.

I'd like to know who voted for the French ...

The only war the French ever won was the French Revolution. And that was against themselves.

Makes me wonder how French troops managed to march across all of Europe through Prussia, and into Russia, or occupy Vienna then... Or, how they kicked Austria's ass at Solferino, or maybe the 30 years war, where they kicked the Spanish a few times etc, etc, etc.

And how they actually managed to help a certain stinky little colony somewhere in the west to get rid of the Brits...

Also, it wasn't a tsunami that saved Japan from the mongol invasion, it was a "divine wind", also known as kamikaze.

A few people need history lessons that go beyond "George Washington defeated the British Empire alone with nothing else but a rusty knife".

Apart from that, which German empire, there were a few throughout history. There was, for example the "Holy Roman Empire of German nations".

I wonder why China isn't there *looks at old Chinese history* like... the Han dynasty, etc...

It really depends on the timespan we're talking.

Well, after the battles and massacres there was a Pax Mongolica that reconnected the East and West again.

You could say that there was a Pax Germanica in 1941, where for the first time in centuries, the same currency was good in Egypt and Gaul, but saying it doesn't make it so. ;)

Sorry, but I just don't consider The Mongols to have been a civilizing Empire.

It only lasted ~200 years (1206-1405). Given the speeds that they were travelling at (horse, about 15-20 mph at best) and the size of the Asian landmass and the variances of terrain and peoples...
I'd say that if there WAS any peace under the Mongols "after the wars", it wasn't for more than a generation or two. Heck, it was already starting to splinter before 1300.

Just wondering which empire you believe was the greatest in world history, could you also include your reasons. I purposely havent included ancient empires e.g. Rome, Greece and Egypt as i dont think they can be proporly compared but feel free to comment on them. Its more accurately the greatest empire of the post industrial age
British Empire. What is the language of business worldwide? Enuff said?

British Empire. What is the language of business worldwide? Enuff said?

Well, after the British Empire collapsed(Well, collapsed isn't the right term...rebeled is a better one), the Americans continued it. If it weren't for us, Russian, French, Chinese, German, or Japanese would probably be the worlds buisiness language.

Or Hindi.

Germany, we were the nicest empire. Alot like the US during the Clinton years.

Germany, we were the nicest empire. Alot like the US during the Clinton years.

?

Does "Heil Hitler!" ring a bell?

If you mean the second reich, they were nicer, but not very. The Poles were kinda...not treated very well. The first Reich(The Holy Roman Empire) lasted longer than the other ones, but that's about the only good thing about it.

Well, after the British Empire collapsed(Well, collapsed isn't the right term...rebeled is a better one), the Americans continued it. If it weren't for us, Russian, French, Chinese, German, or Japanese would probably be the worlds buisiness language.

Or Hindi.
Ahhh but you forget your basic roots as part of the British Empire? English is the worlds business language not American, if there is such an animal.

the japanese have never had a real empire, and you all picked brittish empire because youre from brittain and cant admit that america is not only an empire, but the greatest in history. You fox-hunting, eel pie-eating, soccer ball-kicking, neo-monarchist fatasses with drinking problems and no job to speak of.

Ahhh but you forget your basic roots as part of the British Empire? English is the worlds business language not American, if there is such an animal.

I did not forget our roots in the British Empire(which I consider was fine and dandy. Except for the part that it created many of the worlds tension zones and it's legacy has caused hatred and death). I know English is fron the British, and the world's business language is not "American", which doesn't even exist. It's just that without us, the English language would have been replaced.

Therefore, we are the successor of the British Empire.

In terms of the Jedi(I'm not sure why I am using Star Wars stuff. Meh.), we were the rebellious padawan who broke away from our mentor, Great Britain, and we then surpased the master.

The British Empire was to me the greatest empire in recent history (the last 2000 years)

Before and maybe for two hundred years after 1AD it was quite obviously the Roman Empire, but this started to decline from the start of the C1st.

The British Empire introduced technology language and culture to so much of the globe that, without it, the world would be a far different place today. If it weren't for the British Empire, the United States would not even exist as the entity it does today, although the US now fills the vacume that has left since its dissolution into the commonwealth.

Additionally, the majority of the British Empire did not openly rebel. India and the US are to my immediate knowledge the only nations that did rebel, or even come close - and as we all know India's rebellion was a very pacifistic one. The rest of the British Colonies were granted independance for helping the mother country to victory in two world wars, and due to the reduced British military power these wars caused.

the japanese have never had a real empire, and you all picked brittish empire because youre from brittain and cant admit that america is not only an empire, but the greatest in history. You fox-hunting, eel pie-eating, soccer ball-kicking, neo-monarchist fatasses with drinking problems and no job to speak of.

?!?

Then what was that gigantic piece of land that Japan ruled between 1930-1945?

Also, if they weren't an "Empire", how come they had an emperor, had an Imperial Army, and were called the "Empire of Japan" until the end of WWII?

?

Does "Heil Hitler!" ring a bell?

If you mean the second reich, they were nicer, but not very. The Poles were kinda...not treated very well. The first Reich(The Holy Roman Empire) lasted longer than the other ones, but that's about the only good thing about it.

Of course I'm talking about the goddamn second reich. The third reich wasn't an empire, it was a dominion.

the japanese have never had a real empire, and you all picked brittish empire because youre from brittain and cant admit that america is not only an empire, but the greatest in history. You fox-hunting, eel pie-eating, soccer ball-kicking, neo-monarchist fatasses with drinking problems and no job to speak of.

Uhh, not really, considering that the US is holding election in all of the countries it's invaded.

Look up the word "empire" before you post next time.

Of course I'm talking about the goddamn second reich. The third reich wasn't an empire, it was a dominion.

I don't like them very much, actually. You know, the basic enslavement of my ancestors(I am of polish ancestry, by the way), their brash invasions of, well, everyone, their arrogance in thinking "Oh, we can take on more than 10 countries at once!", and their lack of rights for the common man made them less than perfect.

I don't like them very much, actually. You know, the basic enslavement of my ancestors(I am of polish ancestry, by the way), their brash invasions of, well, everyone, their arrogance in thinking "Oh, we can take on more than 10 countries at once!", and their lack of rights for the common man made them less than perfect.

Bring it, Poland! The Federal Republic will take you on, anytime, anywhere.

Bring it, Poland! The Federal Republic will take you on, anytime, anywhere.

You're just jealous because our sausages are better than yours ;).

You're just jealous because our sausages are better than yours ;).

I prefer frankfurts.

And hamburgers. And berliners. And black forest (my tribal homeland) cake.

I prefer frankfurts.

And hamburgers. And berliners. And black forest (my tribal homeland) cake.

I admit, those are all good. I just like a good Polish Sausage(Kiełbasa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_sausage). Wiejska in particular) more.

Oh, and BTW, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth) pwnz the Second Reich.

The British Empire shaped the modern world, it was undoubtedly the greatest in mass and population as well.

I prefer frankfurts.

And hamburgers. And berliners. And black forest (my tribal homeland) cake.


I admit, those are all good. I just like a good Polish Sausage(Kiełbasa. Wiejska in particular) more.

Will you guys stop it, you're making me hungry :p

the Roman Empire

Islamic Empire but since that isn't an option I went with the British Empire.

I admit, those are all good. I just like a good Polish Sausage(Kiełbasa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_sausage). Wiejska in particular) more.

Oh, and BTW, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth) pwnz the Second Reich.

And they had trouble holding back my other half, Ukrainians.

Islamic Empire but since that isn't an option I went with the British Empire.

No such empire. It's a figment of your imagination.

No such empire. It's a figment of your imagination.
Right ;)

Islamic Empire but since that isn't an option I went with the British Empire.

Do you mean the Ottoman empire?
That was a pretty good empire.

I'd like to know who voted for the French ...

The only war the French ever won was the French Revolution. And that was against themselves.
Actually the French (called the Franks) under Charlemagne were really powerful. They stopped the massive Muslim expansion into Europe and, well, everywhere else.

And they had trouble holding back my other half, Ukrainians.

Whattaya mean? We conquered almost all of Ukraine!

Here's the map of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, BTW. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Pol-lith_commonwealth_map.jpg)

Do you mean the Ottoman empire?
That was a pretty good empire.
No. I mean the Islamic Empire from AD 622 - 1258.

After 1258, the Ottomans took control and governed from Asia Minor.

Rome most definitely, if you're looking not only at an Empire at one period of time but its stability over generations...

Umm... What about China. It was formed long before Rome, and lasted long after Rome fell.

It's all fairly relative I would say. The Romans built an Empire that has its traits still lasting today, America based some of its founding principals on Roman ideals. China, while having several Dynasties we in effect one solid people that went through administrative changes, but could aurguble still be considred an Empire. Their numbers and unity today is a result of the ancient dynasties of the past. Britian had a far reaching Empire for its day, one that came close to uniting the whole world under its banner. America, well, we are like I said, in some ways a modern Rome, and I would think after our power faded, alot of what we had will be felt througout the world
I think though that the Catholic faith is the most powerful Empire, though not in name perhaps. It has laws and policies, and economy, a capital and at times, it has waged war or encourage others to wage war. I would say Catholics could be considered a secret Empire so to speak.

Actually the French (called the Franks) under Charlemagne were really powerful. They stopped the massive Muslim expansion into Europe and, well, everywhere else.

Wrong.

They stopped the Muslims invading via Spain, but the Polish (Lead by Jan III Sobiesk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_III_Sobieski)) defeated the Ottomans right before they conquered Vienna, and if they had done that all of Europe would have fallen(at least all of continental Europe).

Oh, and Here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Rzeczpospolita.png) is another map of the PLC.

No. I mean the Islamic Empire from AD 622 - 1258.

After 1258, the Ottomans took control and governed from Asia Minor.

You should be ashamed of yourself, Jamil!

There was no "Islamic Empire" There was the Abassid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid) Caliphate and the Umayyad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad) Caliphate.

There were also smaller, self-declared Caliphates, such as the Fatimid Caliphate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimids), the Caliphate of Córdoba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordoba%2C_Spain#Caliphate_of_C.F3rdoba), and theAlmohad Caliphate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almohad).

The last Caliphate was the Ottoman Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottomans), which was a Caliphate.

It's a sad, sad day when a non-muslim knows more about Islamic history than a muslim does.

The PLC is really under-whelming.

The PLC is really under-whelming.

WHAT?!?!?!

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth saved Western Civilization from the Ottoman Empire(although that may not be a good thing...)! Without us, the British, German, U.S, French, or U.S.S.R Empires wouldn't even have existed.

You should be ashamed of yourself, Jamil!

There was no "Islamic Empire" There was the Abassid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbasid) Caliphate and the Umayyad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad) Caliphate.

There were also smaller, self-declared Caliphates, such as the Fatimid Caliphate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimids), the Caliphate of Córdoba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordoba%2C_Spain#Caliphate_of_C.F3rdoba), and theAlmohad Caliphate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almohad).

The last Caliphate was the Ottoman Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottomans), which was a Caliphate.

It's a sad, sad day when a non-muslim knows more about Islamic history than a muslim does.

http://www.silk-road.com/maps/images/Arabmap.jpg

Wrong.

They stopped the Muslims invading via Spain, but the Polish (Lead by Jan III Sobiesk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_III_Sobieski)) defeated the Ottomans right before they conquered Vienna, and if they had done that all of Europe would have fallen(at least all of continental Europe).

Oh, and Here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Rzeczpospolita.png) is another map of the PLC.
Something you overlooked, the Ottomans didn't start till 1350, The battle of Tours(pronounced twa) was in 732. The battles between the Polish and Ottomans happened a LOOOONG time later. The Franks did successfully stop the Muslim advance of Europe. Later the Ottomans attacked.

Something you overlooked, the Ottomans didn't start till 1350, The battle of Tours(pronounced twa) was in 732. The battles between the Polish and Ottomans happened a LOOOONG time later. The Franks did successfully stop the Muslim advance of Europe. Later the Ottomans attacked.

The stopped the first invasion, but we finished them off.

That's something j00 overlooked.

Well, yes I'm biased, but I still say US. Seeing as we started off as mostly just a rag tag group of angry farmers and within 2 centuries became the unrivaled superpower of the world, at least after the fall of the Soviets.

And why isn't the Roman Empire or anything like that on here?

http://www.silk-road.com/maps/images/Arabmap.jpg

The term "Islamic Empire" means all of the land the Muslims conquered, not one political state. There were, however, many Islamic Empires.

As I said, a sad, sad day...

The term "Islamic Empire" means all of the land the Muslims conquered, not one political state. There were, however, many Islamic Empires.

As I said, a sad, sad day...
Yes well I misphrased it then. I consider all of the land the Muslims 'conquered' an 'empire' because (more or less) at all times throughout the founding and spread of Islam, Muslims were united.

Byzantine actually lasted longer. ;)

I don't know if somone mentioned this already, but the Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire. The capital moved to Constantinople while the empire was united. Then the Empire split itself into two halves for administrative purposes, and the Eastern half lasted until 1453, generally known as the Byantine Empire but in actuality the same political body as the Roman Empire. If the Republic is included in the 'empire' then the Roman Empire lasted over 2000 years.

Crossman - the US did not start as a rag-tag group of farmers. At the time of the revolution it was already the richest place on earth per capita. Just a small point, really.


While I was very surprised when I first heard that Poland once owned half of Eastern Europe, I don't think that one battle, however important, makes it the greatest empire. There would have to be another vote about influential-battles-that-saved-Europe-from-Islamic-invasion or something.


Basically, it has to be the British Empire, for size, wealth, loyalty (for most of its history), scientific advancement and general impact on history and global society. The Mongol Empire wins only in terms of military influence. The Roman Empire was impressive for its time though, it must be granted, and China deserves an honourable mention for stability, longevity and culture, but it was too conservative and introspective to make a real difference.

Yes well I misphrased it then. I consider all of the land the Muslims 'conquered' an 'empire' because (more or less) at all times throughout the founding and spread of Islam, Muslims were united.

What magic happy world have you been living in?

Muslims have been divided throughout their history! Shi'ites and Sunni's, North Africans and Arabs, Abbasids and Umayyads, etc. Yes,they haven't been as divided as Christians, but they have no way been united.

Of course, certain factions have united most of the muslims, but while the Ottomans(who had the largest Islamic empire) controlled most of the Muslims, alot still lived in Central Arabia(which was never conquered by them), North-west Africa, and don't forget the Sultanate in Northern India(which was never under the control of ANY Caliphate).

You forgot the Polish Empire!

You forgot the Polish Empire!

i know :(.

I've already poted stuff about the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth on the last 2 pages though ^^.

i know :(.

I've already poted stuff about the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth on the last 2 pages though ^^.
Yeah but... I... I... I was hoping nobody mentioned it before. :p

Anyhow: Mongol Empire!

Yeah but... I... I... I was hoping nobody mentioned it before. :p

Anyhow: Mongol Empire!

Well I did.

MWAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!

Well I did.

MWAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!
I didn't even know they HAD an empire. ;)

MWuhuhuhuhuhu... *cough* air! air!

What magic happy world have you been living in?

Muslims have been divided throughout their history! Shi'ites and Sunni's, North Africans and Arabs, Abbasids and Umayyads, etc. Yes,they haven't been as divided as Christians, but they have no way been united.

Of course, certain factions have united most of the muslims, but while the Ottomans(who had the largest Islamic empire) controlled most of the Muslims, alot still lived in Central Arabia(which was never conquered by them), North-west Africa, and don't forget the Sultanate in Northern India(which was never under the control of ANY Caliphate).
Other than the Sunni-Shia conflict there really weren't any hostilities between Muslims.

Rome gets my vote

Other than the Sunni-Shia conflict there really weren't any hostilities between Muslims.
Sunni-Shia? you maked that up!

I did not forget our roots in the British Empire(which I consider was fine and dandy. Except for the part that it created many of the worlds tension zones and it's legacy has caused hatred and death). I know English is fron the British, and the world's business language is not "American", which doesn't even exist. It's just that without us, the English language would have been replaced.
There is nothing wrong with being patriotic and all, but the English language would have been replaced if it wasn't for America? Pray do tell how that is remotely possible?

The US did not extend diplomatic relations (http://usinfo.org/docs/basic/prc_e.htm) to the People's Republic of China until 1979 (excluding 1 billion people).

The United Kingdom controlled Hong Kong from 1842 up until 1997. Languages: Cantonese (a dialect of Chinese) and English are official.

Canada established diplomatic relations (http://www.beijing.gc.ca/beijing/en/navmain/canada/596/index.htm) with the People's Republic of China in 1970

Imperielism is evil caused by greed. There is no such thing as a great empire.

Austria-Hungary! The ONLY Empire to achieve it's war aims in WW1!

Pity they lost the war...

The French got Alsace-Lorraine back and humiliated Germany. Austria's goal was to crush Serbia to prevent their multi-ethnic EMpire breaking apart under nationalist tensions. Sure, after Bulgaria joined, and with Mackensen and the German Elevnth Army they crushed Serbia, but in the end they split into 4 different countries and the rest was given to existing countries like Romania and Italy.

WHAT?!?!?!

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth saved Western Civilization from the Ottoman Empire(although that may not be a good thing...)! Without us, the British, German, U.S, French, or U.S.S.R Empires wouldn't even have existed.

Even if Vienna has been lost, there is very little evidence that points to the Ottomans continuing northward, it's amazing they made it to Vienna in the first place. It might have made he developements of Europe a little harder, what without the Hapsburgs, but I can't see places like Rome, Paris, Berlin, or London falling.

There is nothing wrong with being patriotic and all, but the English language would have been replaced if it wasn't for America? Pray do tell how that is remotely possible?

The US did not extend diplomatic relations (http://usinfo.org/docs/basic/prc_e.htm) to the People's Republic of China until 1979 (excluding 1 billion people).

The United Kingdom controlled Hong Kong from 1842 up until 1997. Languages: Cantonese (a dialect of Chinese) and English are official.

Canada established diplomatic relations (http://www.beijing.gc.ca/beijing/en/navmain/canada/596/index.htm) with the People's Republic of China in 1970

You forgot Russian :)

If America hadn't existed, the Soviet Union would be the dominant power of the world, thus making Russian the main language. Simple, really.


Other than the Sunni-Shia conflict there really weren't any hostilities between Muslims.

Really? Then what do you call the Ottomans invading Arab(and muslim) countries? The destruction of cities is not the killing of fellow Muslims?

Oh, and you ever hear of Pakistan-Bangladesh? Over 3 million Bangladeshis were killed by the Pakistani's. They were almost all Muslims.

Does the Iran-Iraq war ring a bell?

What would you call the fighting between the Abassid's and the Umayyads(when the Abassids rose to power)?

North and South Yemen?

The Berber Muslims fighting off the Caliphs?

Learn your religions history, dammit!


Even if Vienna has been lost, there is very little evidence that points to the Ottomans continuing northward, it's amazing they made it to Vienna in the first place. It might have made he developements of Europe a little harder, what without the Hapsburgs, but I can't see places like Rome, Paris, Berlin, or London falling.

I can.

You see, even if the Ottomans hadn't gone past Vienna if they had won, they would have solidified their control over South-East Europe. The Muslim populations would soar, and the Ottomans(after about 100 years or so) would have such a large and loyal recruiting base they could have gone down from the Alps and taken Italy. Or at least take the rest of Central Europe.

Of course, Western Europe would have a high chance of staying out of Ottoman control. As would Russia and Scandanavia, as well as the British Isles. But the rest of Europe would fall.

The stopped the first invasion, but we finished them off.

That's something j00 overlooked.
You finished them off 800 years later! And it wasn't even the same empire, just the same religion. Thats like saying the Indians(from India) didn't repel Macedonia(Alexander the Great) since Britain took them over a couple thousand years later.

You forgot Russian :)

If America hadn't existed, the Soviet Union would be the dominant power of the world, thus making Russian the main language. Simple, really.
Now you are dealing in a hypothetical situation. America does exist, and the British Empire gave her start.

BTW, who developed the first atomic bomb? I will give you a hint.....3 countries took part. :eek:

And where did the formula come from?

Now you are dealing in a hypothetical situation. America does exist, and the British Empire gave her start.

BTW, who developed the first atomic bomb? I will give you a hint.....3 countries took part. :eek:

And where did the formula come from?

The majority of English speakers live outside America, in the commonwealth. That's my first point.

Second, good point, the atomic bomb was developed by people from many different nationalities. Most of the major contributors to the development of the bomb were Europeans, not Americans (British, Austrian, Hungarians and Germans wasn't it?)