NationStates Jolt Archive

Poll coming.

And by 'most hopelessly screwed,' I don't mean 'worst,' I mean which one has the bleakest future.

Anyone of them African countries.

Anyone of them African countries.

Ummm...then why did you pick 'U.S.A.' in the poll? :confused:

The U.S.A. isn't in Africa. ;)

I'd say either North Korea, Zimbabwe, or Democratic Republic of the Congo. Sudan ain't exactly a paradise, either. And South Africa is rape capital of the world. Etc.

Please use your brain when you vote, people. Does the U.S. have 700% inflation, mass starvation, HIV rates in excess of 30%, and unemployment around 80%? :rolleyes:

Somalia. No question. ONly country in the world without a functioning government aka any governement

You forgot the Central African Republic. A place so bad, everyone ignores it. (For decades).

But really, any country in sub-saharan africa is screwed.

Please use your brain when you vote, people. Does the U.S. have 700% inflation, mass starvation, HIV rates in excess of 30%, and unemployment around 80%? :rolleyes:


No-we dont. Did you expect any of them to use their brains? Some how, the US has hurt all of them, so they will lash out in any way they can.

The north pole, most of will melt in a few years...

I'd say either North Korea, Zimbabwe, or Democratic Republic of the Congo. Sudan ain't exactly a paradise, either. And South Africa is rape capital of the world. Etc.

Hah. "Give people a choice, and then bitch when they pick it."

I agree that it's a stupid choice to pick, but so are people. :p

Well if I had to choose, I'd choose the American South. Which is almost another country as far as I'm concerned.

No-we dont. Did you expect any of them to use their brains? Some how, the US has hurt all of them, so they will lash out in any way they can.
All together now:
....Awwwwwww, poor baby!

No-we dont. Did you expect any of them to use their brains? Some how, the US has hurt all of them, so they will lash out in any way they can.

Yeah, Africa, that's all the US's fault. :rolleyes:

We should have listened to Europe when they told us: "Don't invade Africa, set up brutal colonies, exploit the land and oppress the populace for a hundered years. 'Cos that'll really fuck africa up."


It's like Europe had a crystal ball about this or something. :rolleyes:

Estrato

Well if I had to choose, I'd choose the American South. Which is almost another country as far as I'm concerned.

That because you don't know anything about geography.

Crapistan ;)

Edit: To be serious though I don't know enough about a lot of countries to know the most screwed

Somalia. No question. ONly country in the world without a functioning government aka any governement

There doing quite fine without a government. The main problem is the people who want to establish a government. Interestingly enough, they also have the fastest growing telecommunications industry in all of Africa.d

The Democratic Republic of the Congo is the poorest nation on Earth. I think I'd rather live in Somalia than there.


Well if I had to choose, I'd choose the American South. Which is almost another country as far as I'm concerned.

HEY!! :mad:


Also, I would like to note that North Korea, while not desperately poor, has the most oppressive governement of any nation on Earth. It's even illegal to have pictures of the dictator with dust on them there.

sierra leone, it used to be a perfectly functioning african version of britain, but once it became independent it was destroyed by free trade, and i think im right in saying it is consistently in the bottom three of the UN Human Development Index. but i agree, anywhere in sub sahelian africa.

Ahahahahaha.

MORE PEOPLE VOTED FOR AMERICA THAN ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES... COMBINED.

When 1/3 of your countries population has AIDS. You know your countries screwed.

http://www.avert.org/subaadults.htm

Swaziland.

I heard it's so bad, that when you go to the villages, or towns, you only see old people and children. Because all the youngsters are dead or dying of Aids.

The Democratic Republic of the Congo is the poorest nation on Earth.

Incorrect. East Timor is the poorest.

When 1/3 of your countries population has AIDS. You know your countries screwed.

http://www.avert.org/subaadults.htm

Swaziland.

I heard it's so bad, that when you go to the villages, or towns, you only see old people and children. Because all the youngsters are dead or dying of Aids.

Check the CIA's factbook. Swaziland's HIV rate is actually closer to 40%.

I voted for the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Mind you, maybe there are nations which are even more screwed (maybe Sierra Leone - always last on UN lists of Best Education and sortlike stuff), but being Belgian, I know more of Congo than of other nations in Africa. Central Africa as a whole has a hopeless future - what with all those violent bloody civilian wars.

I don't know if it's worse in Congo as it is now, or when we Belgians were there - it was very bad when Leopold II ruled there, but under Baudouin, I get the impression that at least it was a little under control (far from how it should be, but its choosing between evils).

Still, I think we 19th century Europeans should have never colonized Africa and just draw lines on the map to divide property between nations - putting enemy tribes in one nation is just wrong.

There doing quite fine without a government. The main problem is the people who want to establish a government. Interestingly enough, they also have the fastest growing telecommunications industry in all of Africa.d

It's 'run' by militia. No wonder they can't agree, and the rest of the world won't 'help'. Look what happened to the U.S last time they went in

I voted for the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Mind you, maybe there are nations which are even more screwed (maybe Sierra Leone - always last on UN lists of Best Education and sortlike stuff), but being Belgian, I know more of Congo than of other nations in Africa. Central Africa as a whole has a hopeless future - what with all those violent bloody civilian wars.

I don't know if it's worse in Congo as it is now, or when we Belgians were there - it was very bad when Leopold II ruled there, but under Baudouin, I get the impression that at least it was a little under control (far from how it should be, but its choosing between evils).

Still, I think we 19th century Europeans should have never colonized Africa and just draw lines on the map to divide property between nations - putting enemy tribes in one nation is just wrong.

Imperialism did indeed commit horrible acts, but it also did some truly wonderful things, as well.

Hah. "Give people a choice, and then bitch when they pick it."

I agree that it's a stupid choice to pick, but so are people. :p
More like give people a choice to identify which stupid dumbasses should be ignored when they try to pass themselves off as serious in other threads.

More like give people a choice to identify which stupid dumbasses should be ignored when they try to pass themselves off as serious in other threads.

The irony in what you wrote is probably lost on you, it seems.

More like give people a choice to identify which stupid dumbasses should be ignored when they try to pass themselves off as serious in other threads.The irony in what you wrote is probably lost on you, it seems.
*grabs popcorn*

The irony in what you wrote is probably lost on you, it seems.
Please, anyone who votes that America's future is bleaker than...Sudan's...honestly shouldn't have access to the internet until they visit both places and tell someone from Sudan that, to his face.

The questions wasn't the worst place to live, or the place with the worst conditions, it was the most screwed.
The American Dream used to be that you work hard, and you get a nice life. That's getting screwed. The majority of the weath in the US is controlled by something like the top 2 per cent of the population. The Bush administration is burning through our goodwill with foriegn nations. Was Saddam a $%^&* and a personification of Evil? Yes, he was a bad man, but we went to war, attacked a sovern nation, and misinformed the American public as to why we were doing it. Rumsfield tells the world that the prisoners that were mistreated might not have been covered by the Geneva Convention. Come on, we are supposed to be the good guys. Our beloved president got arrested for driving under the influence of cocaine at the age of 35 and called it a youthful folly. He wants to put the kind of people who screwed Americans in the Savings and Loan scandal in a position to handle social security monies.
That said, I don't think the problem (why America's future is screwed) is Bush.
I think America's future is screwed because the majority of Americans don't know that they are being screwed now. We aren't looking at history, we aren't looking at what's going on in the world, we aren't looking at what's going on in the country. Political arguements have pretty much just digressed into spewing catchphrases at each other.
I am not saying all Americans are hopeless, I am not saying America is hopeless, I am saying that unless we Americans start thinking. The future of America is screwed.
Disagree with me, prove me wrong, but do it with thought, not with insipid propiganda. Because if I am wrong, and a well thought out arguement can prove it, I still win, because it shows that people are thinking. If I didn't love America I wouldn't care.

The questions wasn't the worst place to live, or the place with the worst conditions, it was the most screwed.
The American Dream used to be that you work hard, and you get a nice life. That's getting screwed. The majority of the weath in the US is controlled by something like the top 2 per cent of the population. The Bush administration is burning through our goodwill with foriegn nations. Was Saddam a $%^&* and a personification of Evil? Yes, he was a bad man, but we went to war, attacked a sovern nation, and misinformed the American public as to why we were doing it. Rumsfield tells the world that the prisoners that were mistreated might not have been covered by the Geneva Convention. Come on, we are supposed to be the good guys. Our beloved president got arrested for driving under the influence of cocaine at the age of 35 and called it a youthful folly. He wants to put the kind of people who screwed Americans in the Savings and Loan scandal in a position to handle social security monies.
That said, I don't think the problem (why America's future is screwed) is Bush.
I think America's future is screwed because the majority of Americans don't know that they are being screwed now. We aren't looking at history, we aren't looking at what's going on in the world, we aren't looking at what's going on in the country. Political arguements have pretty much just digressed into spewing catchphrases at each other.
I am not saying all Americans are hopeless, I am not saying America is hopeless, I am saying that unless we Americans start thinking. The future of America is screwed.
Disagree with me, prove me wrong, but do it with thought, not with insipid propiganda. Because if I am wrong, and a well thought out arguement can prove it, I still win, because it shows that people are thinking. If I didn't love America I wouldn't care.

So America is screwed till 2008 I guess. :D

Please, anyone who votes that America's future is bleaker than...Sudan's...honestly shouldn't have access to the internet until they visit both places and tell someone from Sudan that, to his face.

I already said that I agree that it was a stupid option to pick, but calling those who picked it "stupid dumbasses" doesn't exactly raise your own status.

My comments about "but so are people" was more general and alluded to people choosing stupid things, not them being stupid themselves, and also a joke (hence the smiley).

Africa seems to have the most 'un-fixable' problems at the moment. Years of torturous over exploitation of their natural resources have crippled most of Africa to a point where there is no hope to ever have any sort of sustainable future. The Sahara desert and the deforestation surrounding its growth in certain areas is a perfect example.

As far as my 'other' country, I'll choose Ghana - a cousin of mine is working there as a nurse right now, and the stories she tells me make me cry. Im serious. I know that making a choice like this shouldn't be personal, but after hearing what goes on in that country - I just can't see the hope for them anymore. :(

*grabs popcorn*

I'd grab your popcorn any day! :fluffle:

;)

Africa seems to have the most 'un-fixable' problems at the moment. Years of torturous over exploitation of their natural resources have crippled most of Africa to a point where there is no hope to ever have any sort of sustainable future. The Sahara desert and the deforestation surrounding its growth in certain areas is a perfect example.

As far as my 'other' country, I'll choose Ghana - a cousin of mine is working there as a nurse right now, and the stories she tells me make me cry. Im serious. I know that making a choice like this shouldn't be personal, but after hearing what goes on in that country - I just can't see the hope for them anymore. :(

Ghana is far better off than the rest of West Africa.

I already said that I agree that it was a stupid option to pick, but calling those who picked it "stupid dumbasses" doesn't exactly raise your own status.

My comments about "but so are people" was more general and alluded to people choosing stupid things, not them being stupid themselves, and also a joke (hence the smiley).
Stupid dumbasses do stupid dumbass things such as pick stupid dumbass options in polls. QED

the USA. i think its pretty bleak when you face a future that consists entirely of watching how much you RULE. its sad when the rest of the world can hate you for your sucess, and wallow in jealousy whenever your great deeds are mentioned. its a bleak day when nations beg you for asssitance(freely given!) yet curse you behind your back. bleaker still, when you look at your massive economy, amazing government, and thriving citizens. yep, us americans are so screwed/.

Stupid dumbasses do stupid dumbass things such as pick stupid dumbass options in polls. QED

And call other people "dumbasses".

Stupid dumbasses do stupid dumbass things such as pick stupid dumbass options in polls. QED
Accepting your premisce that stupid dumbasses always pick "stupid dumbasses choices", it still does not logically follow that ALL stupid dumbasses choices were made by, and only by, stupid dumbasses.

Your QED is very much erronerous.

Ghana is far better off than the rest of West Africa.
Like I said, it was a poor choice - but I made it for personal reasons. Truthfully most of the African continent is in a state of perpetual disrepair that will take hundreds of years to rectify - if at all.

the USA. i think its pretty bleak when you face a future that consists entirely of watching how much you RULE. its sad when the rest of the world can hate you for your sucess, and wallow in jealousy whenever your great deeds are mentioned. its a bleak day when nations beg you for asssitance(freely given!) yet curse you behind your back. bleaker still, when you look at your massive economy, amazing government, and thriving citizens. yep, us americans are so screwed/.

and when we hand out countless billions to people with their hands out, send them assistance,material and people only to find they secretly loathe us behind our backs.

and when we hand out countless billions to people with their hands out, send them assistance,material and people only to find they secretly loathe us behind our backs.

So true. It's sad. Ungrateful ppl :(

I'd grab your popcorn any day! :fluffle:

;)
Crunch all you want baby! If I'm feelin' really kinky-- I'll probably throw in the butter too. :D :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

And call other people "dumbasses".
Please, unless you want to deny ever disparaging Americans as ignorant or arrogant, I think we can agree that namecalling has its place.

and when we hand out countless billions to people with their hands out, send them assistance,material and people only to find they secretly loathe us behind our backs.
exactly. and still, we americans persevere in the name of friendship, honor and loyalty. it really does suck to be us. after reading the anti american posts on NS general, i am starting to realize the USA is completely alone in the world, surrounded by the masses of backstabbing , greedy, stuck up, ignorant, judgemental other worlders.

exactly. and still, we americans persevere in the name of friendship, honor and loyalty. it really does suck to be us. after reading the anti american posts on NS general, i am starting to realize the USA is completely alone in the world, surrounded by the masses of backstabbing , greedy, stuck up, ignorant, judgemental other worlders.
Queen Occidio, that pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter too. Thanks.

Crunch all you want baby! If I'm feelin' really kinky-- I'll probably throw in the butter too. :D :fluffle: :fluffle: :fluffle:

Mmm, creamy goodness. *drools* :fluffle:

exactly. and still, we americans persevere in the name of friendship, honor and loyalty. it really does suck to be us. after reading the anti american posts on NS general, i am starting to realize the USA is completely alone in the world, surrounded by the masses of backstabbing , greedy, stuck up, ignorant, judgemental other worlders.
Don't take that too far. I like the US, I disagree with a lot of the foreign policy they have - but I disagree with a lot of countries foreign policy - so no harm, no foul. The US has problems too, as do all nations in this world - no one country stands (in my opinion) as a steadfast example of how to rule. People are always quick to point out faults though, and threre must be an admittance that there have been plenty of those concocted of the American mindset as of late. America is not the best country in the world, there is no best country - but it certainly isnt 'the most screwed'. There is always hope for redemption, always. To anyone who disagree's with me, perhaps you ought to look at the number of fingers pointed back at you when you shake that one dirty one at the US. We are all guilty, every country - and almost every person within, of the same things we so blatantly trash the US for.

I do dislike the fact that all these nations hate us soooooo bad. But then when their economy is so f$*# up they come crying to us for help. If we were to ask them for a favor we'd get the rudest no i can think of.

exactly. and still, we americans persevere in the name of friendship, honor and loyalty. it really does suck to be us. after reading the anti american posts on NS general, i am starting to realize the USA is completely alone in the world, surrounded by the masses of backstabbing , greedy, stuck up, ignorant, judgemental other worlders.

I'l support our continual support of everyone else too. because I know when we are down and suffering, they will all come back to pick us up and support us in our hour of need.

bump

More like give people a choice to identify which stupid dumbasses should be ignored when they try to pass themselves off as serious in other threads.

Agreed.

the US. at the moment the African countries are pretty bleak places to be, but they don't have very far to fall. after awhile HIV, starvation, and their political games will kill off most of their people and then when they don't have as many people to support there will be less starvation, the HIV people will be dead, and civil conflicts inevitably must come to an end eventually. There's just not enough energy in people to fight constantly for more than a few hundred years straight at the most.

The US however has an extremely long way it can fall. What happens when the production of crude oil and natural gas peaks? Renewable energy sources will never be able to supply enough energy, hydrogen not only is an energy carrier-not an energy source-but in order to change an energy source into hydrogen there's a net loss of energy and since it's the smallest element it will escape slowly from any container at a rate of roughly 1.7% a day I believe-basically it's a pipe dream, nuclear energy could step up but there's only a limited supply of uranium (I believe nuclear power is produced from uranium-238, the rarer isotope of uranium), it takes massive amounts of money and energy to build the generators, and I believe public outcry over the radiation they produce will be great enough that enough won't be built in time to save us from declining oil and natural gas supplies, coal can be used but it pollutes like crazy and the process of changing it into a liquid energy to replace gas is so inefficient that our 250 years supply would probably shrink to 50 at the most if used as a replacement (i assume the 250 year estimate is based on current demand, not the increased demand that will come from a growing economy, rising populations and the replacing of gas with the inefficient coal-to liquid process. not to mention the problem isn't when we run out but when the production peaks off and a steady decline emerges.). There's always unconventional oil too, in the US there's a considerable amount in the oil shales. But the process of extrating it is very polluting and takes considerbale amounts of water and energy, not to mention the costs of constructing the infrastructure to exploit it. People have tried exploiting oil shales before when the price of gasoline increased during the 70s but when the price decreased again the projects were cancelled because there's no way it can compete in price with easy to pump crude. By the time the price have gone up enough to warrant new investment it will take years for production to come online, and then it will be more expensive than the cheap gas we're used to and it will run out eventually anyway no matter how much water, energy, and money is dumped into it to increase production to stave off the recession. The more that's produced, the quicker it will peak and prices will rise again.

The USGS says the world production of oil will eak around 2030. Various other sources say anytime between now and then with world natural gas production peaking around a decade afterwards. With no viable replacement, what will happen to the US economy as gas prices rise every year, permanently. What will happen as the price of plastics continues to rise and rise and rise. As the price of fertiizer (ammonia is produced using natural gas I believe) increases and the price to operate farm machinry increases, what will happen to the price of food? The US dollar is sometimes referred to as the petrodollar. The reason the dollar has always been so strong isn't only because we have a large army (how long can Amerikan power be projected when the price of fuel needed for transport becomes increaingly prohibitively expensive and as a permanent recession in the US will undoubtedly provoke countless riots?), and a strong economy (what will happen to that as the price of gas, plastics, food, and whatnot all increases) but also because the dollar is tied to gasoline. In order to buy gas from OPEC, countries need to use American dollars. When those countries begin to run out and the supply of oil becomes erratic, what will happen to the dollar?

What happens when a country with an economy in the trillions of dollars begins to fall and fall and fall. The other countries have already fallen, after they've fallen a bit more they'll have little to go but up. The US has never fallen, and I believe that when the time comes it will be quite awe inspiring.

North Korea. Sooner or later, someone's going to try and step in, and when they do, BAM! War! And then, when the dust settles, if N. Korea hasn't been nuked right off the planet, one of the most hegemonised, nationalistic nations on Earth suddenly has to try and fix itself up properly. It doesn't look optimistic.

Russia has been caught in a tailspin since it's inception. So my vote goes to the Ruskies.

I can't believe that so many fools voted USA. The USA is the worst screwed nation? Yeah right. They don't face any threat of invasion - they could see off the entire rest of the world without breaking much of a sweat, given the size and strength of their military. Their citizens are some of the wealthiest, well-off in the world. The country is a titanic bastion of industrial and economic might. The continent itself has sufficient raw materials and land to sustain the population should any kind of trade problem occur. The United States of America kicks every other ass in the world, like it or not.

They don't face any threat of invasion - they could see off the entire rest of the world without breaking much of a sweat, given the size and strength of their military. Their citizens are some of the wealthiest, well-off in the world. The country is a titanic bastion of industrial and economic might. The continent itself has sufficient raw materials and land to sustain the population should any kind of trade problem occur. The United States of America kicks every other ass in the world, like it or not.
No. The US can't even manage Iraq. I can imagine what a disaster it would be if the US tried to take on other countries such as China or Russia... rofl.

No. Very few US citizens are truly well off. Namely the 2% or so who own most capital. But in this aspect, the US is just like most European nations. "Democracy", capitalism and industrialization lead to concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. I'm not a fan of this system.

And no, the US cannot sustain itself indefinitely neither does it kick the ass of everyone else in the world. However it would get a nice kick in the ass if it tried something like this. Of course it is clear that the people of the only "superpower" think they're almighty. Tell that the people who died 9/11 - where was your invulnerability back then, hm?

The reason why so many people hate the USA is because many citizens of it think exactly like the poster I quoted. Totally ridiculous and arrogant to the extreme.

North Korea. Entire country is a one big disaster.

Please stop voting for the US . . . unless you seriously believe that massive famines, crime waves, and total decay followed by absolute dictatorship and corruption is coming.

Ein Deutscher']No. The US can't even manage Iraq. I can imagine what a disaster it would be if the US tried to take on other countries such as China or Russia... rofl.

No. Very few US citizens are truly well off. Namely the 2% or so who own most capital. But in this aspect, the US is just like most European nations. "Democracy", capitalism and industrialization lead to concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. I'm not a fan of this system.

And no, the US cannot sustain itself indefinitely neither does it kick the ass of everyone else in the world. However it would get a nice kick in the ass if it tried something like this. Of course it is clear that the people of the only "superpower" think they're almighty. Tell that the people who died 9/11 - where was your invulnerability back then, hm?

The reason why so many people hate the USA is because many citizens of it think exactly like the poster I quoted. Totally ridiculous and arrogant to the extreme.

Yes. They probably wouldn't care too much to fix up an invading nation after they kicked the shit out of it. Big difference between fighting an army, and fighting a group of terrorists.*

Yes. Only 2%?! LMATROFOROMRFOMAFOMOFMAROTTMAFRROMAOFMFOMOARFL[continue random assortment of 'ROTFLMAO' letters]. So, you're telling me, that my good dozen or American friends, plus the dozens of other Americas I know in passing, are not well off? With, yanno, cars, TVs, plenty of food, the means to go and eat out if they so desire, steady jobs in most cases... O___o they're all in that 2%? And I met them all online, randomly? And all the Americans I have SEEN whilst there, who are wearing fine clothing and carrying hi-tech gear like iPods and PSPs, they're all in that top 2% as well? So this entire 2% is localized entirely in Chicago O'Hare, Atlanta, Dallas Ft. Worth, and St. Louis Lambert airports, as well as St. Louis, St. Charles, St. Peters, Six Flags Missouri, Terre Haute in Indiana, and... ok, you get the picture. Smacktard.

And yes, the USA has the space and raw materials to make a go of it alone. Believe it or not, the rest of the world would suffer much more than the USA would, if such measures were taken.

And finally, I believe Dogburg is British, not American.

*Edit: Of course, the thing is... that they would. They did in Germany, they did in Japan, they are with Iraq, and Afghanistan. They'd help, because they always have, and because even when the rest of the world hates them for it, the USA still does the right thing.

Yes. They probably wouldn't care too much to fix up an invading nation after they kicked the shit out of it. Big difference between fighting an army, and fighting a group of terrorists.*

>>>>>>>>>>>>snip<<<<<<<<<<<carrying hi-tech gear like iPods and PSPs,

*Edit: Of course, the thing is... that they would. They did in Germany, they did in Japan, they are with Iraq, and Afghanistan. They'd help, because they always have, and because even when the rest of the world hates them for it, the USA still does the right thing.
well said. thank you. and you deserve waaayy more than a fluffle.
here is a soon to be welcome toast to my country. where are you moving?

Ein Deutscher']No. The US can't even manage Iraq. I can imagine what a disaster it would be if the US tried to take on other countries such as China or Russia... rofl.

Pulling off an invasion is way harder than defending a country. What I meant was, a world-wide coalition would have a lot of trouble invading the united states.

Ein Deutscher']
No. Very few US citizens are truly well off. Namely the 2% or so who own most capital. But in this aspect, the US is just like most European nations. "Democracy", capitalism and industrialization lead to concentration of wealth in the hands of a few. I'm not a fan of this system.

Wake up. Something like a third of the american population is overweight. Sound like 2% evil fat cats enslaving everyone else?

Ein Deutscher']
And no, the US cannot sustain itself indefinitely neither does it kick the ass of everyone else in the world. However it would get a nice kick in the ass if it tried something like this. Of course it is clear that the people of the only "superpower" think they're almighty. Tell that the people who died 9/11 - where was your invulnerability back then, hm?


I'm British. I'm looking at the USA from outside, and it seems pretty damn mighty from where I'm standing.

Ein Deutscher']
The reason why so many people hate the USA is because many citizens of it think exactly like the poster I quoted. Totally ridiculous and arrogant to the extreme.

I'm British! I live in the United Kingdom and am a British citizen. I'm not some ranch-owning big-mac eating cowboy with the american flag tattooed on my arms. I am somebody looking at the United States whilst not being part of the United States, and what I see is a juggernaut in every respect.

Urgh. That's all I have to say.

Congradulations AnarchyforRevan, Bashan, Biggleses, Bobs Own Pipe, Democraticland, Dobbs Town, Draconis Nightcrawlis, Dream and Fantasy, East Canuck, Eborias, Europaland, Gauthier, Grubbycup, Gurdenvazk, Hobabwe, Kerlapa, Kryozerkia, LazyHippies, MEDKtulu, New Granada, Niini, Ninjamangopuff, North Island, Occidio Multus, Plutophobia, Pure Metal, Silly Sharks, Skidetenland, Spaam, Sumamba Buwhan, Tatlia, The Mad Chao Cabal, The Magickal Forest, The Mindset, The Plutonian Empire, The Sythe, Tograna, and [NS]Ein Deutscher. You are officially too hopelessly biased and bitter to think rationally. Good lord, people.

I really wonder how someone who is living in the US can vote it as the most screwed nation on Earth when they HAVE A HOUSE, OWN A COMPUTER, AND ACCESS TO THE INTERNET. Real grateful there guys.

... the USA still does the right thing.kiddnap, turture and sexual assault... are not the rigth thing...

And yes, the USA has the space and raw materials to make a go of it alone. Believe it or not, the rest of the world would suffer much more than the USA would, if such measures were taken.

Take a guess-has Amerikan oil production been steadily increasing or decreasing since 1977? And if you answer decreasing, in fact if you say that Amerika is now a net importer of oil and is incapable of supplying its own oil needs, then how do you think they have enough raw materials to even keep their own economy up let alone take on the rest of the world? Seriously. Do you know how hard I'd laugh when the Navy decided to launch their planes from the aircraft carriers to attack someplace, say China, in 2050 and halfway to their targets the planes crashed and burned becasue they ran out of Amerikan supplied fuel?

I really wonder how someone who is living in the US can vote it as the most screwed nation on Earth when they HAVE A HOUSE, OWN A COMPUTER, AND ACCESS TO THE INTERNET. Real grateful there guys.maybe because they feel they will go to hell (if there is hell)...for supporting the War (paying taxes)

Personally I feel only the Bushites should go to hell...all 50 million of them. :mp5:

I really wonder how someone who is living in the US can vote it as the most screwed nation on Earth when they HAVE A HOUSE, OWN A COMPUTER, AND ACCESS TO THE INTERNET. Real grateful there guys.

I believe the first post says "future screwed up", not "today screwed up"

I too find it offputting that people sitting in the luxury of their homes, with internet connection and other luxuries, are getting some kind of enjoyment of deciding which country is the most "screwed."

There are human beings living in those countries...

maybe because they feel they will go to hell (if there is hell)...for supporting the War (paying taxes)

Personally I feel only the Bushites should go to hell...all 50 million of them. :mp5:

So because the US has invaded Iraq, regardless of whether it was justified that means the US is the worst nation on Earth?

I believe the first post says "future screwed up", not "today screwed up"

It's still not America.

So because the US has invaded Iraq, regardless of whether it was justified that means the US is the worst nation on Earth?It means that if there is hell...you are going there.

so you future is screwed.

enjoy your temporary privileges...and play Doom3 as much as possible...think of it as "survival training" :D

Saudi Arabia.

It's still not America.

I'm sure its not. When American civilization comes crashing down just say "It's not happening. Everything's normal" enough times and who knows, maybe it'll just turn out to be a bad dream.

Ahahahahaha.

MORE PEOPLE VOTED FOR AMERICA THAN ALL OF THE OTHER COUNTRIES... COMBINED.

Thats because of the stupidity and biases of the bulk of the people on this board.

Given the options, it is moronic that there should be even 1 vote for the USA, or any developed nation for that matter.

The fact that the USA is number 1 choice only goes to show that the bulk of people here have the equivilent of cotton between their ears.

honestly, what do you say to someone who truly believes that a country whose poor are fat is worse off than a country whose majority face death by starvation. Reason is out the window.

Oh, America is evil because the poor can only afford Mcdonalds but Rwanda is okay because govt sponsored genocide teams only cut off 1 limb from the population and govt sanctioned gang rape isnt so bad.

Fucking monkeys. Most of them are from the EU too. What tye of education do you guys get? Its better to kill and rape someone vs giving them a choice to eat burger king or not?

Thats because of the stupidity and biases of the bulk of the people on this board.

Given the options, it is moronic that there should be even 1 vote for the USA, or any developed nation for that matter.

The fact that the USA is number 1 choice only goes to show that the bulk of people here have the equivilent of cotton between their ears.

honestly, what do you say to someone who truly believes that a country whose poor are fat is worse off than a country whose majority face death by starvation. Reason is out the window.

Oh, America is evil because the poor can only afford Mcdonalds but Rwanda is okay because govt sponsored genocide teams only cut off 1 limb from the population and govt sanctioned gang rape isnt so bad.

Fucking monkeys. Most of them are from the EU too. What tye of education do you guys get? Its better to kill and rape someone vs giving them a choice to eat burger king or not?
The US kills plenty. How many thousands of civilians died and are still dying in Iraq?

America is evil because ....Why is America evil?
It is not because of MacDonald.

I like McDonalds.

.. Its better to kill and rape someone..
AbuGrail?

honestly, what do you say to someone who truly believes that a country whose poor are fat is worse off than a country whose majority face death by starvation. Reason is out the window.

Oh, America is evil because the poor can only afford Mcdonalds but Rwanda is okay because govt sponsored genocide teams only cut off 1 limb from the population and govt sanctioned gang rape isnt so bad.



What do you say when the people who believe America is the best off country in the world can't see past tomorrow and look at the bigger, long term picture. African countries have people starving to death today. If they continue starving to death fifty years from now at the same rate the change will have been zero for them. If a country with a GDP per capita of like $37k or so falls down to become similar to Honduras, with fat people having to go without meals for the first time in their lives and actually starving to death, where a violent race riot every half century or so is expected, but what about half a dozen violent bread riots every month? If a country falls to become a fifteenth its current wellbeing I think that's quite a bit bleaker than some poor country staying exactly where it is.

The US kills plenty. How many thousands of civilians died and are still dying in Iraq?


:rolleyes:
At lot less than Mugabe does.
Why not vote for Zimbabwe, if that's your sole criteria?

exactly. and still, we americans persevere in the name of friendship, honor and loyalty. it really does suck to be us. after reading the anti american posts on NS general, i am starting to realize the USA is completely alone in the world, surrounded by the masses of backstabbing , greedy, stuck up, ignorant, judgemental other worlders.

No, America has many supporters throughout the world.

Ask the Eastern Europeans or the Chinese or the Indians or the Polish. People who have been through hardship know what America stands for. Those in Hong Kong or many south American countries. The Italians and generally the Spanish. I have yet to meet a Russian who didnt raise the USA.

Its only the wankers in some parts of the EU that crib. They are essentially irrellevant(or soon to be) anyway.

even the Africans that come to the USA know what it is about. Come here(we accept all) and work hard. You will be rewarded.

People talk about american racism, I used to love flying Luftansa until the past 5 years. They started to have an immigration problem and all of a sudden even the airline staff has become obnoxious to brown skinned people(Im brown skinned).

The USA has had immigration problems for years, and I have NEVER been spoken to like I was by luftansa staff(in business class)

...
Ask the Eastern Europeans or the Chinese or the Indians or the Polish. People who have been through hardship know what America stands for. Those in Hong Kong or many south American countries. The Italians and generally the Spanish. I have yet to meet a Russian who didnt raise the USA...Let me guess

you been in all those countries.

What do you say when the people who believe America is the best off country in the world can't see past tomorrow and look at the bigger, long term picture. African countries have people starving to death today. If they continue starving to death fifty years from now at the same rate the change will have been zero for them. If a country with a GDP per capita of like $37k or so falls down to become similar to Honduras, with fat people having to go without meals for the first time in their lives and actually starving to death, where a violent race riot every half century or so is expected, but what about half a dozen violent bread riots every month? If a country falls to become a fifteenth its current wellbeing I think that's quite a bit bleaker than some poor country staying exactly where it is.

Interesting though completely irrelevant point.

Tell you what monkey boy, you give up all your wealth and I will give up mine. I will stay in the Us and try and make a life for myself while you go to an African country of your choice and try to make a life there.

1 year from now we will compare our lives and decide "which is the most hopelessly screwed country in the world"


Do you see the point I bringing up? do you see the thread title? Sorry for the arrogence, but it is mind boggling to me that people can make comparisons between American and African living standards. Are you people brain dead?

I understand wanting to pick on America, but really. How about a shred of objectivety, if only to at least appear rational.

1 year from now we will compare our lives and decide "which is the most hopelessly screwed country in the world"


?? Interesting that you think 1 year is "future". As the author pointed out it's "I don't mean 'worst,' I mean which one has the bleakest future." The way I figure it one year would make so little difference as far as any kind of time, not just geologic time, but even in human time, that it could hardly be considered "future". I'm talking about 50, 100, 150 years from now. Who cares about next year? One year is like tomorrow, even in my time, let alone by country time. Technically maybe tomorrow is future, but its hardly the spirit of the topic.

Let me guess

you been in all those countries.

Well, I live in India now, Ive been to china once. Ive been to italy twiceduring the summers unfortunately)(high school). I dated a polish girl and have been there once(high school). Been to spain a couple of times. Been to France and Germany a bunch of times..Love German breakfasts and French roadside crepes. Been to the Uk more times than I can count(and thats not counting day visits). Japan twice(high school). Did the whole europe a country a day thing long ago(as in belgium, holland whatever countries.) been to Hong kong a few times, both before and after handover(amazing place!!!). Singapore a bunch of times. UAE a few times, Dubai a few times.

Course this is leaving out places like bermuda, caymans, dominican republic, mauriches ect. I have never been to australia, but I will thiss year I hope.

I am assuming that you had a point to your question, but given your politican stance it really isnt that important.

Do you know why? Because in my opinion you are one of those people that really has no clue of what America is as opposed to the rest of the world. You have no idea what the concept of America means to my family and families like mine.

My parents were immigrants(they have citizenship now) and people like you will never understand the price they paid to come to America and the rewards they were given by a country of strangers. Sure there was discrimination, but tht is everywhere. In America my family was rewarded for performance despite their/our skin color.

I wouldnt make the same argument for a white guy coming here to India. I wouldnt even make the same argument for a south Indian working in North India. But fools like you will always exist.

Well, I live in India now, Ive been to china once. Ive been to italy twiceduring the summers unfortunately)(high school). I dated a polish girl and have been there once(high school). Been to spain a couple of times. Been to France and Germany a bunch of times..Love German breakfasts and French roadside crepes. Been to the Uk more times than I can count(and thats not counting day visits). Japan twice(high school). Did the whole europe a country a day thing long ago(as in belgium, holland whatever countries.) been to Hong kong a few times, both before and after handover(amazing place!!!). Singapore a bunch of times. UAE a few times, Dubai a few times.

Course this is leaving out places like bermuda, caymans, dominican republic, mauriches ect. I have never been to australia, but I will thiss year I hope.
WOW who do you work for?

Lufhansa? :D :D :D

Name any country in the EU and you will have your answer.

USA sux roffel!!!1

I voted other. Somalia is screwed as a 'country' since they're only a country in the most liberal use of the word. (by god, if anyone accuses me of bringing politics into this by using the world 'liberal' I'll scream. then I'll tell them to get a dictionary.)

Vatican they will have to pick a new pope. At least the cardinals won't use electronic voting machinces.

Vatican they will have to pick a new pope. At least the cardinals won't use electronic voting machinces.
ahhh...

It's really funny how at the same time as this poll, America is in the lead for best country in the world on another thread, other than other, which should rightfully be split over a lot of different countries. It says something about how people choose the threads they respond to, I think.

WOW who do you work for?

Lufhansa? :D :D :D

No, I stopped flying Luftansa when they became blatently racist(the last 5 or so years)(coincided with their immigration problem).

Growing up, my parents(with 2 other families) used to travel all over. My parents along with the other families came to the US because there was no work in India back then(all doctors, moms included). So I saw a bunch(as in most) countries by the time I graduated high school.

I dont like traveling, but I have set up my business in India and my partners father owns a travel agency so I am always getting deals. Like Phuket for a weekend for pocket change.

If you have seen the living standards of people in other countries, you would never EVER critisize the USA. Those who do just have no clue. Forget about third world countries like I am in, the cost of food in France/UK/Germany relative to income vs what it is in the US will make you cry.


I saw guy in Italy pick out 2 tomatoes for his his evening meal. In the US, we buy them by the bag. Food is cheap. Gas is cheap. Apartments are cheap. This is freedom people, not having to struggle to be able to afford 2 tomatoes.

Bitch about the US all you want. Our govt have established a system whereing the people can afford all the staples of life cheaply. The biggest problem of our poor is overeating.... To me that means we have beaten our own biology. We are no longer bound by evolution. WTF are u europeans doing?

....
I saw guy in Italy pick out 2 tomatoes for his his evening meal. In the US, we buy them by the bag.Looks to me like..you are basing your vision of other countries on 2 days trips...

So far I can deduct you really lived only in 2 countries India and US...

obiously India is a shithole compared to the US...but I cannot say the same for the other countries in your previous post.

well said. thank you. and you deserve waaayy more than a fluffle.
here is a soon to be welcome toast to my country. where are you moving?

^__^ Thank you. I'll almost certainly be moving to the St. Charles/St. Peters areas, near St. Louis. Most (Though by no means all) of the people I know live there, plus my girlfriend, and uncannily enough I'd like to live near her! :p Possibly with, her family are very cool and though I hate to be presumptuous, they'd probably let me chill there until I got a job and could rent my own place.

Of course, I have to get a Green Card first... *Sighs* Silly immigration laws. :p

The Congo has been devastated by more than a decade of continual civil war. If my memory serves me correctly, the Congo in a two year span i think from '93-'93 lost more people than America has in every war combined 2 or 3 times over. Thats generations being lost. That seems awfully bleak to me

It's really funny how at the same time as this poll, America is in the lead for best country in the world on another thread, other than other, which should rightfully be split over a lot of different countries. It says something about how people choose the threads they respond to, I think.

What do you mean by that? Can elaborate further.

I live in New Zealnd
Now America might be building an air force base in a Natrual Reserve were there are endangered speeches that only have about 60 birds left

I'd say North Korea since I have heard over 1,000,000 people have starved to death, don't quote me on that though, thats just what I heard.

USA. The way they are hated.

USA future= :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:

Looks to me like..you are basing your vision of other countries on 2 days trips...

So far I can deduct you really lived only in 2 countries India and US...

obiously India is a shithole compared to the US...but I cannot say the same for the other countries in your previous post.

It is true that I havent "LIVED" in many other countries besides the US and India. But spending a little bit of time if enough to get some sort of picture of other countries.

For instance, food, gas, rent relative to income does not compare Europe vs. US. I mean really, there is no comparison.

lets look at the UK an Us. In the Us I have no problem flying to another part of the country, renting a car, staying at a motel and grabbing a steak for dinner. The same transactions would cost me more than double if I did it in the UK. The UK eqivilent of what I did would be to grab a flight to london, get some public transport and stay in some run down bed and breakfast. Even if 1 pound = 1 dollar, I would be spending more in the UK. Everything is taxed, food is expensive, god forbid you want to rent a car and pay for gas.

The Uk/Euro model is so differant that the US one. In the UK/Euro model, everyone is more or less equal. The middle class live marginally better than the poor. The rich of course are rich and can do as they please.

In the Us model, The middle class are more akin to the rich. Maybe they cant eat at the same restaurants or drive the same cars, but they can eat out and drive vs public transport.

Being poor sucks wherever you are. The question is how do you define Poor? Pesonally, given my experience, I would take an american poor person over a European one. At least in America, they can better themselves.

South Africa (or sub-saharan africa for that matter)
Millions die each year from aids. Not only that, they haven't (until recently) seen the link between HIV (the infection) and AIDS (the symptoms)...

sad :(

:fluffle: :mp5:

USA. The way they are hated.

USA future= :sniper: :mp5: :gundge:
and whats wrong with that? everyone loves the biorifle! :D

:fluffle: :mp5:

Uh... Why is it some of you picked the U.S.?

What do you mean by that? Can elaborate further.

I mean that, while they might not be mutually exclusive, the best country in the world and the most screwed are pretty much opposite. This poll was just as available as the other, but they came up with opposite results. It shows that, good or bad, people have a particular interest in America.

I think there needs to be a rule against making the US an option in this sort of poll :P
Seriously though, I wonder how many people click this sort of topic KNOWING the US will be an option, just so they can click it and leave, or post a message saying "The US is (topic), because (random thing that is x10 worse in ~50 other countries)".

Well, I was going to pick the U.S., just to be the devil's advocate, but I thought for a while and decided that South Africa had a much bleaker future, what with the roving gangs of criminals.

Well, I was going to pick the U.S., just to be the devil's advocate, but I thought for a while and decided that South Africa had a much bleaker future, what with the roving gangs of criminals.
or the roving gangs of men that sleep with countless women... which is sad 'cuz the women are labeled as "whores" if they ask the guy to wear a condom... :confused:

:fluffle: :mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

or the roving gangs of men that sleep with countless women... which is sad 'cuz the women are labeled as "whores" if they ask the guy to wear a condom... :confused:

:fluffle: :mp5: :sniper: :gundge:

And while we're on that subject... with so many continents to choose from, why don't we just segregate the genders each to their own continents and achieve ZPG (Zero Population Growth)?

The women can have Africa, Europe, Antarctica, Australia. Men get Asia, North and South America. Sounds fair.

Ok. Done hijacking the thread.

the US. at the moment the African countries are pretty bleak places to be, but they don't have very far to fall. after awhile HIV, starvation, and their political games will kill off most of their people and then when they don't have as many people to support there will be less starvation, the HIV people will be dead, and civil conflicts inevitably must come to an end eventually. There's just not enough energy in people to fight constantly for more than a few hundred years straight at the most.

The US however has an extremely long way it can fall. What happens when the production of crude oil and natural gas peaks? Renewable energy sources will never be able to supply enough energy, hydrogen not only is an energy carrier-not an energy source-but in order to change an energy source into hydrogen there's a net loss of energy and since it's the smallest element it will escape slowly from any container at a rate of roughly 1.7% a day I believe-basically it's a pipe dream, nuclear energy could step up but there's only a limited supply of uranium (I believe nuclear power is produced from uranium-238, the rarer isotope of uranium), it takes massive amounts of money and energy to build the generators, and I believe public outcry over the radiation they produce will be great enough that enough won't be built in time to save us from declining oil and natural gas supplies, coal can be used but it pollutes like crazy and the process of changing it into a liquid energy to replace gas is so inefficient that our 250 years supply would probably shrink to 50 at the most if used as a replacement (i assume the 250 year estimate is based on current demand, not the increased demand that will come from a growing economy, rising populations and the replacing of gas with the inefficient coal-to liquid process. not to mention the problem isn't when we run out but when the production peaks off and a steady decline emerges.). There's always unconventional oil too, in the US there's a considerable amount in the oil shales. But the process of extrating it is very polluting and takes considerbale amounts of water and energy, not to mention the costs of constructing the infrastructure to exploit it. People have tried exploiting oil shales before when the price of gasoline increased during the 70s but when the price decreased again the projects were cancelled because there's no way it can compete in price with easy to pump crude. By the time the price have gone up enough to warrant new investment it will take years for production to come online, and then it will be more expensive than the cheap gas we're used to and it will run out eventually anyway no matter how much water, energy, and money is dumped into it to increase production to stave off the recession. The more that's produced, the quicker it will peak and prices will rise again.

The USGS says the world production of oil will eak around 2030. Various other sources say anytime between now and then with world natural gas production peaking around a decade afterwards. With no viable replacement, what will happen to the US economy as gas prices rise every year, permanently. What will happen as the price of plastics continues to rise and rise and rise. As the price of fertiizer (ammonia is produced using natural gas I believe) increases and the price to operate farm machinry increases, what will happen to the price of food? The US dollar is sometimes referred to as the petrodollar. The reason the dollar has always been so strong isn't only because we have a large army (how long can Amerikan power be projected when the price of fuel needed for transport becomes increaingly prohibitively expensive and as a permanent recession in the US will undoubtedly provoke countless riots?), and a strong economy (what will happen to that as the price of gas, plastics, food, and whatnot all increases) but also because the dollar is tied to gasoline. In order to buy gas from OPEC, countries need to use American dollars. When those countries begin to run out and the supply of oil becomes erratic, what will happen to the dollar?

What happens when a country with an economy in the trillions of dollars begins to fall and fall and fall. The other countries have already fallen, after they've fallen a bit more they'll have little to go but up. The US has never fallen, and I believe that when the time comes it will be quite awe inspiring.

you missunderstood the question.. even if you have no foresight to see where our country is headed in the first place.. the question didnt' ask which country would fall the farthest.. its w hich has the bleakest future... i dont care how far America falls... i dont care if the economy crashes if the liberals take over, if we are bombed 6 ways to sunday... we will never have a future as bleak as those in Africa... with stats like 40 - 50% HIV ... rampent poverty .. the home to some of the most hidious diseases war ridden... and no end in sight. If the US droped everything and ran in there guns blazing today nothing would even change... because every side of every argument is morally bankrupt looking to squeeze every penny from the dead corpses they rule. So no.. Africa has not far to fall.. but has no way to get up either

I think there needs to be a rule against making the US an option in this sort of poll :P
Seriously though, I wonder how many people click this sort of topic KNOWING the US will be an option, just so they can click it and leave, or post a message saying "The US is (topic), because (random thing that is x10 worse in ~50 other countries)".

i knew the result was going to be the US just by looking at the name in the topic and seeing the poll symbol on the side.. you could have picked sudan or America.. they still would have chosen America. Lets face it.. they are just US haters... well by gum.. I say Isolationist all the way.. call in all our debts (which would surely erase the 3 trillion we have in deficit now) stop trade with all those fools and see how fast the world falls apart.. you know the US is largely a self supporting nation.. infact our food supplies largely feed most of those poverty ridden crap wholes across the globe.

After being on this forum for so long.. Im beginning to think we should have listened to Washington in the first place.. let Europeans fight their own wars and kill themselves.. why should we bother with them. Everyone Blames the US for the middle east... HA look at Africa.. that is European handy work right there.. 100 times worse then the middle east (not that they didnt have a HUGH hand in the middle east as well).

i knew the result was going to be the US just by looking at the name in the topic and seeing the poll symbol on the side.. you could have picked sudan or America.. they still would have chosen America. Lets face it.. they are just US haters... well by gum.. I say Isolationist all the way.. call in all our debts (which would surely erase the 3 trillion we have in deficit now) stop trade with all those fools and see how fast the world falls apart.. you know the US is largely a self supporting nation.. infact our food supplies largely feed most of those poverty ridden crap wholes across the globe.

If we invest in power sources that aren't oil, such as nuclear power, it might be feasable. Things would be slower here. We'd never be able to transport ourselves around the country as quickly as we do now, but we'd still have computers and we'd never have to deal with anyone else ever again. I'm not so sure the rest of the world would fall apart though. At least we wouldn't have to bother with them.

It's a nice thought, anyway.

Burkina Faso. It's consistantly at the bottom of the UN's HDI. To make matters worse, it has no resources to speak of, low literacy rates, low life expectancies, and a host of other problems. And the biggest problem of all is that it truely is forgotten.

SO many choices (aside from the non-choice of the US, heck even as an outright fascist dictatorship it will still have a brighter future than a goodly number of countries). I'm voting other (Tibet) mnostly because the country has no forseeable future as a country but for one I think I'd least like to live in in the future I lean towards Miramar (Burma) and NKorea, both have some serious poverty and isolationist governments without the capability to be selfsupporting. At least Zimbabwe could feed itself.

And while we're on that subject... with so many continents to choose from, why don't we just segregate the genders each to their own continents and achieve ZPG (Zero Population Growth)?

The women can have Africa, Europe, Antarctica, Australia. Men get Asia, North and South America. Sounds fair.

Ok. Done hijacking the thread.
Why bother, latest UN projections are for negative population growth starting soon. We pretty much already are at ZPG. And segregating the genders would not produce ZPG anyway, if effective it would produce zero population, have to have births to replace deaths to achieve ZPG or ZPS (zero population shrinkage) for that matter. Plus I think men should get Australia.

gotta love the anti americanism here

Iraq, courtesy of the screwing machine of the US of A.

When you stop to think about it, the US have only screwed themselves. And you can't screw yourself have as effectively as you can screw another country, like Iraq. Heck, when did over .4% of the US population (that's over 1,0000,0000) die within two years from the consequences of warfare? Several cities bombed into rubble, and a new "democracy" that consists of fundies wrapping the women in burqas and licking the boots of Iran. And the oil.

I mean, how screwed can you get? Oh, right, Vietnam, with its Agent Orange defoliation desaster.

Iraq, courtesy of the screwing machine of the US of A.

When you stop to think about it, the US have only screwed themselves. And you can't screw yourself have as effectively as you can screw another country, like Iraq. Heck, when did over .4% of the US population (that's over 1,0000,0000) die within two years from the consequences of warfare? Several cities bombed into rubble, and a new "democracy" that consists of fundies wrapping the women in burqas and licking the boots of Iran. And the oil.

I mean, how screwed can you get? Oh, right, Vietnam, with its Agent Orange defoliation desaster.

i can see how this equates to instances of life expectancy as low as 35 as it is in some AFrican countries now.. or the fact that most african coutnries dont even hold stable governments and whose populations are almost in the majority inflicted with an incurable terminal virus. yes... I can see how the US is more screwed :rolleyes:

I'd say Mozambique or any of those similar countries. I wouldn't say Iraq, because they can financally fix themselves up one day. I wouldn't say the US, because there's no civil war or SERIOUS starvation. I'm also tempted to vote North Korea, as they have NOTHING that they could bring themselves up with.

Iraq

Because of America.

Zimbabwe
Afghanistan
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Sudan

are the only reasonable answers - war and extreme poverty-and with out any economy or resources to g et them out of it - north korea is somewhat screwed - but i believe between the US and china - they have a good enough grip on there balls that they just have to wait out the life of Kim jong-il - Nigar and sierra leon should be able to be voted on too but yeah.. those are the countries that are F-ed right up the A

The U.S.A. because of three reasons:

The E.U.
Iran
Russia


That's all I'll say.

The U.S.A. because of three reasons:

The E.U.
Iran
Russia


That's all I'll say.

OK-
1, the EU cant do anything to the USA because its pointless....take the CAP for example.
2,Russia would do something....if it could afford anything or if it could handle its own sphere of influence
3, Iran....come on!

The U.S.A. because of three reasons:

The E.U.
Iran
Russia


That's all I'll say.


if you honmestly believe that your just another blind hater

I say Isolationist all the way.. call in all our debts (which would surely erase the 3 trillion we have in deficit now) stop trade with all those fools and see how fast the world falls apart.. you know the US is largely a self supporting nation.. infact our food supplies largely feed most of those poverty ridden crap wholes across the globe.

After being on this forum for so long.. Im beginning to think we should have listened to Washington in the first place.. let Europeans fight their own wars and kill themselves.. why should we bother with them. Everyone Blames the US for the middle east... HA look at Africa.. that is European handy work right there.. 100 times worse then the middle east (not that they didnt have a HUGH hand in the middle east as well).

Current debt as of March 31st-7,776,939,047,670.14
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpdodt.htm
:) I love checking out that site every so often to see how it changes.
Fun fact-according to the CIA Factbook the Gross World Product is $51.48 trillion. The US debt is 15.1% of the GWP.

Even though I disagree that America is largely a self sufficient nation I do agree with you on isolationism. Let other countries screw themselves up. Eventually it will come back to us of course, if the country screwing themselves up doesn't export anything to us they still might be the major source of imports to some other country that does happen to export goods to us. Chaos in the first country might lead to a downturn in the second country and then to us-same thing that happens now actually but we tend to send troops to stabilize situations when that happens. Isolationism just means we'd have to weather it out. You win some, you lose some.

OK-
1, the EU cant do anything to the USA because its pointless....take the CAP for example.
2,Russia would do something....if it could afford anything or if it could handle its own sphere of influence
3, Iran....come on!

not really..if you take millitary power into consideration then europe is equal to u.s in many ways..population..international allies...etc...this is to say that the E.U actually joined together..iran is said to be the biggest power in the mid east and russia..well...hmm...they could..i have not thought about them to tell you the truth

bump

Iraq, courtesy of the screwing machine of the US of A.

When you stop to think about it, the US have only screwed themselves. And you can't screw yourself have as effectively as you can screw another country, like Iraq. Heck, when did over .4% of the US population (that's over 1,0000,0000) die within two years from the consequences of warfare? Several cities bombed into rubble, and a new "democracy" that consists of fundies wrapping the women in burqas and licking the boots of Iran. And the oil.

I mean, how screwed can you get? Oh, right, Vietnam, with its Agent Orange defoliation desaster.

Interesting. 0.4% of 300,000,000 is now... 100,000,000. WOW! And there I thought it'd be about 33%! Edit: 0.4% of 300,000,000 is more like 1,200,000. If a hundred million were 0.4%, the entire population of the USA would be in the order of some 25,000,000,000. Which would make them really unstoppable.

And you also have no idea what you're talking about on anything else there, but hey, who cares about a good bit of factual knowledge when there's America to be hated?

I voted North Korea, their futures not exactly bright and happy is it but apart from that i'd say Saudi Arabia because even if the other countries are going to be forced to change or helped, Saudi Arabia won't due to oil...

Please, anyone who votes that America's future is bleaker than...Sudan's...honestly shouldn't have access to the internet until they visit both places and tell someone from Sudan that, to his face.

Or has the ability to look into the future way much further than you .... :headbang:


i'm sorry, i'm just messing with you ....

Looks to me like..you are basing your vision of other countries on 2 days trips...

So far I can deduct you really lived only in 2 countries India and US...

obiously India is a shithole compared to the US...but I cannot say the same for the other countries in your previous post.

well, its true, the most I have spent in another country(besides the US and India) is maybe a week. My opinions are based on that. My brother however spent a semester in spain and he has pretty much the same opinions as me(except that he LOVES spain).

What countries have you been to? how much time have you spent there?

Please use your brain when you vote, people. Does the U.S. have 700% inflation, mass starvation, HIV rates in excess of 30%, and unemployment around 80%? :rolleyes: No, but… have you seen The Day After Tomorrow?

Nigeria, Nambia, Congo, Zimbabwe, and Sudan are all eternally fucked. The racial and Christian/Muslim conflicts in those nations will never end, and without constant UN intervention they're all Rwandas in waiting.

Second on the list would include the Middle East. If they're doing ok, the US will be sure to screw them over... it's about "freedom."

My own dearest USA is also screwed. We have too many morons who would rather elect people like Bush because they're scared of this so-called "gay agenda" and "moral values." I find unsubstantiated war and a national effort to keep dead bodies alive like Terri Schiavo quite moral indeed.... God, save us from your followers.

The Soloman Islands. They have no central government, a collapsing economy, and a great youth buldge. It's not even safe for ships to go near their waters, with or without a naval escort.

I laugh when I see how many people picked the US for the most screwed.

I'm sure all those african and southeast asian countries are just jumping with joy, because their futures are obviously so much brighter than ours.

Hey, here's an idea! You guys who think the US is screwed can all leave so I can get a bigger slice of the GDP and improve my already amazing standard of living!!!! :D:D

Yeah people this is pathetic if you are saying the US is more screwed than these guys, pick one to live in. That will give you your answer.

Poll coming.

And by 'most hopelessly screwed,' I don't mean 'worst,' I mean which one has the bleakest future.

why'd you even put Zimbabwe, North Korea, Iraq(i can see why you'd put it there now, it used to be allot better before the u.s. invaded), Sudan, and South Africa on there? i think it will be either the european union, austrailia, united states, or sweden, and possibly china or japan. they're rapidly declining.

Yeah people this is pathetic if you are saying the US is more screwed than these guys, pick one to live in. That will give you your answer.

i'f happily go to sudan or north korea this instant if i had the money. or do you mean this for only people who live in united states?

i'f happily go to sudan or north korea this instant if i had the money. or do you mean this for only people who live in united states?
Why?!? Is your understanding of the world that backward? Or would you have a more missionary intent?

Why?!? Is your understanding of the world that backward? Or would you have a more missionary intent?

industrialized countries tend to be much more corrupt with all sorts of people that want themselves or the people who don't help the government to all be helped by the government

industrialized countries tend to be much more corrupt with all sorts of people that want themselves or the people who don't help the government to all be helped by the government
And you're saying that Iran and North Korea are less corrupt than the US?

If you're looking for something more rural and agrarian, you probably want somewhere in Africa or parts of South America. Preferably without civil war, government oppression, or massive corruption. Somehow I doubt there is a country that fits those criteria. :(

And you're saying that Iran and North Korea are less corrupt than the US?

If you're looking for something more rural and agrarian, you probably want somewhere in Africa or parts of South America. Preferably without civil war, government oppression, or massive corruption. Somehow I doubt there is a country that fits those criteria. :(

mongolia does. it used to have lots of corruption while russia and china faught over it, but now it's good.

The whole world is doomed

The whole world is doomed

you make good sence

Let's face it, America's got so many friends it can't be screwed, Al-Quaida, Hamas and hundreds of other fundamentalist friends. They're obviously pleased with America's "freedom".

America is the most screwed. Wanna know why?

All those African countries have survived those crappy conditions for years, and will survive for many more years. Things can't get worse, unless they get nuked, and who's going to waste a nuke on them anyway? Things there can only get better. They've literally hit rock bottom.

The USA, on the other hand, was once a great country of liberty and peace. Everything you've worked for since independence, however, has rapidly been whittled away in four years of Bush rule. FOUR YEARS. In the US, things are getting worse, and quickly.

America is the most screwed. Wanna know why?

All those African countries have survived those crappy conditions for years, and will survive for many more years. Things can't get worse, unless they get nuked, and who's going to waste a nuke on them anyway? Things there can only get better. They've literally hit rock bottom.

The USA, on the other hand, was once a great country of liberty and peace. Everything you've worked for since independence, however, has rapidly been whittled away in four years of Bush rule. FOUR YEARS. In the US, things are getting worse, and quickly.


All those African countries have subsisted since the beggining of time due to reproduction- more are being born than are slaughtered by military dictatorships and disease/pestilence. Hopefully no one ever uses a nclear weapon against them-Lord knows they have enough to deal with already.
The USA is still a great country of liberty and peace. Your statements are idiotic,immature and revealing.

America is the most screwed. Wanna know why?

All those African countries have survived those crappy conditions for years, and will survive for many more years. Things can't get worse, unless they get nuked, and who's going to waste a nuke on them anyway? Things there can only get better. They've literally hit rock bottom.

The USA, on the other hand, was once a great country of liberty and peace. Everything you've worked for since independence, however, has rapidly been whittled away in four years of Bush rule. FOUR YEARS. In the US, things are getting worse, and quickly.

One of the additional reasons Africa is worse off is that as Carnivorous Lickers states, the people in Africa have survived due to reproduction. This has now been rendered useless through the prolific spread of AIDS in most african countries. As people reproduce, their children are born with the disease and die relatively quickly themselves.

why'd you even put Zimbabwe, North Korea, Iraq(i can see why you'd put it there now, it used to be allot better before the u.s. invaded), Sudan, and South Africa on there? i think it will be either the european union, austrailia, united states, or sweden, and possibly china or japan. they're rapidly declining.


Wow-Iraq was a lot better before the US invaded? How absurd can a person's thought patterns become? The Iraqis just loved being rounded up and executed by sadaam. It seems he was a tad paranoid and routinely had secret police snatching up anyone he thought to have looked at him sideways-often their families too. then they'd enjoy some state sponsored humiliation, torture, rape and murder. It was often videotaped so sadaam and his fun loving. well adjusted sons could could view it later at their leisure. When they werent raping brides of friends right at the wedding or killing soccer players that didint make the varsity team. Many of those tapes have been seized and stand as evidence and this helps to explain the pits full of human bones that are found all around Iraq.
Yeah-Iraq was a virtual Utopia before we invaded. (Sarcastic for those simpletons out there.)

One of the additional reasons Africa is worse off is that as Carnivorous Lickers states, the people in Africa have survived due to reproduction. This has now been rendered useless through the prolific spread of AIDS in most african countries. As people reproduce, their children are born with the disease and die relatively quickly themselves.


And this is truly heartbreaking. The parent's innocent ignorance of the disease and the child's protracted death sentence as a result. After they get to witness the decline of their parent's health. None of them deserve it. The statistics of those infected-and symptomatic is staggering and sickening. How many arent symptomatic yet? This is the next plaque.

America is the most screwed. Wanna know why?

All those African countries have survived those crappy conditions for years, and will survive for many more years. Things can't get worse, unless they get nuked, and who's going to waste a nuke on them anyway? Things there can only get better. They've literally hit rock bottom.

The USA, on the other hand, was once a great country of liberty and peace. Everything you've worked for since independence, however, has rapidly been whittled away in four years of Bush rule. FOUR YEARS. In the US, things are getting worse, and quickly.

I take it from your hatred of America that you have never lived here or will for that matter.

If I look out on my future, as an African nation, and I see my relative status remaining at zero, I would say that is pretty damned bleak. Don't you think that if things could "only get better" then they would have taken steps to achieve that? You need to rethink your definition of bleak.

Bush didn't unravel 200 years of progress. Did you know there really was no huge change in how I conducted my life since Bush was president? I eat the same, sleep the same, go to the same job, drive the same car, etc. If my world was coming down around my ears wouldn't there be some early warning signs. Hell, even the Book of Revelation states that God can't pull off the end of the world without some warning signs. If Bush can achieve that then my hat off to you President Bush. I would argue foreign relations are less they were, but that will change the next time you morons decide to kill each other again over 500 year old hatreds. Being American, I would argue that the USA is the least peaceful nation. Good thing for Europe...twice. Thank God they didn't have to call on the superior might of Switzerland (nothing against Switzerland.) Europe would be speaking German right now. I am glad it didn't happen, but don't lie to yourself and write off America as some backward, hopelessly lost cause. That would be the Delorean. (http://cmsu2.cmsu.edu/~jlh24850/delorean.jpg)

Perhaps that's your problem with the USA. You have defined it in incorrect terms. It is and ALWAYS has been a country for Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. America is about achieving the best life you can.

Don't you just hate it when an arrogant American like me assumes to know everything about your country without even living there? Doesn't it just annoy the hell out of you? Thank God noone does that to me about my country! Phew! :rolleyes:

America is the most screwed. Wanna know why?

All those African countries have survived those crappy conditions for years, and will survive for many more years. Things can't get worse, unless they get nuked, and who's going to waste a nuke on them anyway? Things there can only get better. They've literally hit rock bottom.

The USA, on the other hand, was once a great country of liberty and peace. Everything you've worked for since independence, however, has rapidly been whittled away in four years of Bush rule. FOUR YEARS. In the US, things are getting worse, and quickly.
Ahahahahah. 4 years, and Bush has managed to singlehadedly create 100% of our debt, destroy the environment, screw all the elderly, poor, middle class, everyone aside from himself. Of course.

Oh, and he's managed to squash dissent... without... actually.. squashing any dissent. I don't see any squashed dissent on this forum, for example. Or radical anti-Bush websites.

*Laughs* at this person who thinks Bush could actually enact that much change.

Cuba

Wow-Iraq was a lot better before the US invaded? How absurd can a person's thought patterns become? The Iraqis just loved being rounded up and executed by sadaam. It seems he was a tad paranoid and routinely had secret police snatching up anyone he thought to have looked at him sideways-often their families too. then they'd enjoy some state sponsored humiliation, torture, rape and murder. It was often videotaped so sadaam and his fun loving. well adjusted sons could could view it later at their leisure. When they werent raping brides of friends right at the wedding or killing soccer players that didint make the varsity team. Many of those tapes have been seized and stand as evidence and this helps to explain the pits full of human bones that are found all around Iraq.
Yeah-Iraq was a virtual Utopia before we invaded. (Sarcastic for those simpletons out there.)


Uhmmm,about Iraq: I wonder whether the avarage number of civilians dieing on one day raised or dropped after the US-invation??? Maybe, it's like being in Eastern Europe after the WWII. One dictator is gone, but I'm not whether you like should be hapy with the new one.

No country is perminently Screwed. With good leadership all these countries can be turned around.

I take it from your hatred of America that you have never lived here or will for that matter.

If I look out on my future, as an African nation, and I see my relative status remaining at zero, I would say that is pretty damned bleak. Don't you think that if things could "only get better" then they would have taken steps to achieve that? You need to rethink your definition of bleak.

Bush didn't unravel 200 years of progress. Did you know there really was no huge change in how I conducted my life since Bush was president? I eat the same, sleep the same, go to the same job, drive the same car, etc. If my world was coming down around my ears wouldn't there be some early warning signs. Hell, even the Book of Revelation states that God can't pull off the end of the world without some warning signs. If Bush can achieve that then my hat off to you President Bush. I would argue foreign relations are less they were, but that will change the next time you morons decide to kill each other again over 500 year old hatreds. Being American, I would argue that the USA is the least peaceful nation. Good thing for Europe...twice. Thank God they didn't have to call on the superior might of Switzerland (nothing against Switzerland.) Europe would be speaking German right now. I am glad it didn't happen, but don't lie to yourself and write off America as some backward, hopelessly lost cause. That would be the Delorean. (http://cmsu2.cmsu.edu/~jlh24850/delorean.jpg)

Perhaps that's your problem with the USA. You have defined it in incorrect terms. It is and ALWAYS has been a country for Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. America is about achieving the best life you can.

Don't you just hate it when an arrogant American like me assumes to know everything about your country without even living there? Doesn't it just annoy the hell out of you? Thank God noone does that to me about my country! Phew! :rolleyes:

I didn't write you off until you elected Bush again. And you'll keep voting Republican, again, and again, and again... ad infinitum.

Africa - all of it

I didn't write you off until you elected Bush again. And you'll keep voting Republican, again, and again, and again... ad infinitum.
Well now that you've already determined how we're going to vote, why do we even hold elections? You've apparantely decided already what our future is going to be.

Republicans are no more evil than Democrats.

Oh Congo, my Congo, poor Congo.

Ok, this is just wrong. America isn't screwed (in the next 100 years anyways) :P. Anyone who knows its history knows it's gone through TONS of things. Bush is NOT the first president to mess something up, and he's not even doing that bad of a job. Like one person already said, I'm doing things exactly the same as I've always done them. So inflation rises a little bit.....it's ALWAYS been rising, a LOT since the 80's actually. And hey...we all drive better cars and seem to keep up with technology and standards of living just fine. My dad is a FARMER. And I can happily say we live in a 2 story house on 10 acres of land. With 3 relatively new (2000-2004) cars, high speed internet, satellite TV, heat, running water, all the brand name clothes I could want, great food (not 50lb. bags of rice), and I live in North Dakota. Not some highly urbanized area, I live in a state where single cities have higher populations.

So what if a lot of countries hate us. It's all jealousy or harsh sentiments from the past. Remember who turned around world wars 1 and 2. Who kept Russia from spreading communism throughout all of Asia and Europe. National Debt...Ha....don't make me laugh. Who is going to come collect this debt from us? Obviously you can't just ask for it nicely and get it all back hands down right now. No one is going to "break our legs" to collect either. Unless that is they want nukes up their arses. Which wouldn't even be necessary. Not enough fuel to fly our jets when the world turns its back on us? Not a problem. Our aircraft carriers and submarines are nuclear powered, and the nuclear missiles are fueled up, and ready to launch from quite a range. We still got ICBM's lined up all over canada, alaska, both coasts, and the south! America's patriotism is also very high..considering there's about what...6 firearms to every person? And I would not take one second thought at using mine to defend my country to the death.

And for all the people on here that hate us....their governments sure do seem to cooperate with us no problems. Scientists from America are working all the time with other countries in the study of medicine, military occupation and peacekeeping, and economics. No countries are going to ever really try to fight back against what the US does....UN doesn't back us going into Iraq...well hell...we'll just do it ourselves I guess if they won't help. And again, for all of you saying bush is screwing the country....our constitution takes care of that....only letting him do it for another 4 years...yep, we've just got it all covered!

My dad is a FARMER. And I can happily say we live in a 2 story house on 10 acres of land. With 3 relatively new (2000-2004) cars, high speed internet, satellite TV, heat, running water, all the brand name clothes I could want, great food (not 50lb. bags of rice), and I live in North Dakota.


I don't want to deviate too much from the gist of the thread, but I'd like to point out that this is a textbook example of the indisputable merits of modern capitalism. The guy isn't an evil factory owner (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/dogplatter/mwahaha.png), he's just an everyday guy. And he's filthy rich :D

Wow-Iraq was a lot better before the US invaded? How absurd can a person's thought patterns become? The Iraqis just loved being rounded up and executed by sadaam. It seems he was a tad paranoid and routinely had secret police snatching up anyone he thought to have looked at him sideways-often their families too. then they'd enjoy some state sponsored humiliation, torture, rape and murder. It was often videotaped so sadaam and his fun loving. well adjusted sons could could view it later at their leisure. When they werent raping brides of friends right at the wedding or killing soccer players that didint make the varsity team. Many of those tapes have been seized and stand as evidence and this helps to explain the pits full of human bones that are found all around Iraq.
Yeah-Iraq was a virtual Utopia before we invaded. (Sarcastic for those simpletons out there.)
Although I agree with you for the most part, the war has made some things more difficult. For one thing, there's a lot of uncertainty in Iraq's future and the people seem to be divided in their opinion of the US now (some have a much higher level of animosity towards American troops and some are grateful) which could lead to more war (civil war and such...).

Africa in general.

The fact that so many people voted for the U.S.A. tells me:

A)People don't know how to read;

B)People are being deliberately obtuse;

or

C)People are not taking this seriously.

The fact that so many people voted for the U.S.A. tells me:

A)People don't know how to read;

B)People are being deliberately obtuse;

or

C)People are not taking this seriously.


It may be a combination of all of them, plus the underlying animosity so many people in here have toward the US and try to take advantage of any means to lash out against us, no matter how petty or futile.

I take it from where it comes-if they truly feel the US is the "most screwed" thats fine with me-stop sending there reeking hordes here to own all our "screwed" gas stations, Dunkin Donuts, hotels,motels,convienient stores, jewelers etc... Oh thats right-they COULDNT do so in their own homelands because those places are hopelessly screwed dung heaps.

No-we dont. Did you expect any of them to use their brains? Some how, the US has hurt all of them, so they will lash out in any way they can.

that must be it... because the US is in pretty damn good shape... as long as you're willing to work, the country will reward you (generally).

my response was North Korea:

They're taxed to hell and have little (the people) to show for it. those people rely on international aid to eat while Kim Jong Il spends 75% (or thereabouts.. right?) of the government's resources on his military, which he probably won't use since if he's ever in a war, he might be crazy enough to use nuclear weapons instead of conventional warfare.

that must be it... because the US is in pretty damn good shape... as long as you're willing to work, the country will reward you (generally).

I'd disagree that the US is in pretty damn good shape, but to call it the most screwed shows a blinding lack of awarenss about the real world.

Please use your brain when you vote, people. Does the U.S. have 700% inflation, mass starvation, HIV rates in excess of 30%, and unemployment around 80%? :rolleyes:

I picked the USA because I feel if we remain on the road we are on, we will have the largest collapse in history. While some don't consider America an empire, it is in modern terms. For the richest country in the world, it does the least amount for it's own poor people. That is why I picked it. I believe the future of America is headed for a theocratic rule and will fall the hardest of any nation.

Sure, the other countries in the poll are "worse" than America.. but they don't have much to lose. America does and seems to be driving full steam ahead.

I voted US. Here's why:

Why it's not in the gutter right now, the US is in decline. They are doing what every other dominant civilization before them did and are on the way down. True, Congo is worst off for the moment, but the question is not who is the worst right now. Or at least, that's not how I interpreted it.

It is my belief that the US will fall and fall hard. I will even predict a war on the US soil eventually. That is why I voted for the US. Because they are going the way of the Romans, Babylonians and many other civilizations before them.

True, this generation should be in the clear, but I wonder where the fall will leave the US.

THAT is why I voted US.

Well if I had to choose, I'd choose the American South. Which is almost another country as far as I'm concerned.

now that's brilliant... the american south is far, far worse than the other countries on the list. It's impossible for anyone to prosper there...

lmao, this is hilarious. this is an example of what jealousy does to reason.

I voted US. Here's why:

Why it's not in the gutter right now, the US is in decline. They are doing what every other dominant civilization before them did and are on the way down. True, Congo is worst off for the moment, but the question is not who is the worst right now. Or at least, that's not how I interpreted it.

It is my belief that the US will fall and fall hard. I will even predict a war on the US soil eventually. That is why I voted for the US. Because they are going the way of the Romans, Babylonians and many other civilizations before them.

True, this generation should be in the clear, but I wonder where the fall will leave the US.

THAT is why I voted US.

how much you wanna bet?

i bet you one trillion dollars that the united states will still be a superpower, both economically and militarily (if not the only one, then still one of them..) in 100 years.

of course this amount would bankrupt your entire country (let alone you) and we'll likely not be alive in 100 years.

so how about 50 years?

and make it $10.

I picked the USA because I feel if we remain on the road we are on, we will have the largest collapse in history. While some don't consider America an empire, it is in modern terms. For the richest country in the world, it does the least amount for it's own poor people. That is why I picked it. I believe the future of America is headed for a theocratic rule and will fall the hardest of any nation.

Sure, the other countries in the poll are "worse" than America.. but they don't have much to lose. America does and seems to be driving full steam ahead.

(i just can't let this slide)

maybe that's because we expect most of our poor people (and everyone else) to be able to do for themselves... you know, take responsiblity for themselves. those who can, at least.

i think that expecting a lot out of your people is a sign of greatness, not weakness. the combination of economic freedom and economic self-dependence has led to one of the most powerful/productive economies in the history of the world.

our lack of welfare for able-bodied people is a sign of strength. we temper compassion with expectation that with freedom comes personal responsibility.

now that's brilliant... the american south is far, far worse than the other countries on the list. It's impossible for anyone to prosper there...

lmao, this is hilarious. this is an example of what jealousy does to reason.


Yeah-Atlanta is in the South,right? Wow-its really bad down there. they dont even have running water yet.
I think when these tarts imagine the "American South", they are picturing Adam Sandler's house in "The Water Boy".
More likely that the American South on its own is more prosperous and more progressive than many entire nations are.

(i just can't let this slide)

maybe that's because we expect most of our poor people (and everyone else) to be able to do for themselves... you know, take responsiblity for themselves. those who can, at least.

i think that expecting a lot out of your people is a sign of greatness, not weakness. the combination of economic freedom and economic self-dependence has led to one of the most powerful/productive economies in the history of the world.

our lack of welfare for able-bodied people is a sign of strength. we temper compassion with expectation that with freedom comes personal responsibility.


I also think that many people on welfare dont really want to be on it-if given the choice,they would much rather have a decent job they can earn a living at and support themselves and their families. Some abuse the system of course, but I think they are the exception and not the rule.

Haha all those people who voted for the U.S are freaking nuts they would choose not to live there but live in some shit hole country like zimbabwe where most people are starving and they can't even hold free elections.

finally (and then i'll leave... it is hilarious and disgusting at the same time, this vote), the United States is not an empire.

got to try to lend a bit of logic to this "empire" slander:

if we were an empire WE would be taking control of the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan instead of allowing the people to vote their own governments into power. Empires want to control (maintain control in..) their conquered lands.

if we were an empire, we wouldn't give anyone money for oil, we'd simply take it. instead we pay for it like everyone else does. empires take; we buy.

we engage in international trade; we have ousted two dictatorial regimes and helped to provide the groundwork for two freely elected governments to take their place -- Iraqi law and Afghani law will govern Iraq and Afghanistan, not American law; we engage in international issues; we give lots of international aid.

We are not an empire; we are a single country (albeit a powerful one, but still only one) who DOES influence the world, but who does not try to take it over. We affect positive change, and then we leave. Empires affect change and then stay in power in countries that are not their own.

please think before slandering America.

Yeah-Atlanta is in the South,right? Wow-its really bad down there. they dont even have running water yet.
I think when these tarts imagine the "American South", they are picturing Adam Sandler's house in "The Water Boy".
More likely that the American South on its own is more prosperous and more progressive than many entire nations are.

yah

you can find a McDonald's even in the American South... McDonald's is a sign of prosperity.

hehe

I also think that many people on welfare dont really want to be on it-if given the choice,they would much rather have a decent job they can earn a living at and support themselves and their families. Some abuse the system of course, but I think they are the exception and not the rule.

i know... so if you've lost your job you should recieve help for some period of time (i'd recommend 3-6 months)... enough to help you get back on your feet while you find another job, but not for a length of time that could lead to dependence on welfare.

some people need welfare for some amount of time. I think the key is to maintain the drive in people to find work. to do that, you've got to get it into their heads that so long as they are able to work, they cannot depend on welfare forever.

I voted Zimbabwe originally, but I now know the answer: Turkmenistan. Why? Check out the Worst world leader thread, and you'll see.
For instance: beards, amkeup, and long hair are illegal. Chewing tobacco is illegal- for some interesting reasons.
Don't get me started on their health care.

i know... so if you've lost your job you should recieve help for some period of time (i'd recommend 3-6 months)... enough to help you get back on your feet while you find another job, but not for a length of time that could lead to dependence on welfare.

some people need welfare for some amount of time. I think the key is to maintain the drive in people to find work. to do that, you've got to get it into their heads that so long as they are able to work, they cannot depend on welfare forever.


Welfare should include training or retraining programs too. If there is no job available that you're already capable of, offer training in a different area, or more specialized in the one you're already capable of. Humans by nature want to learn and grow. They want confidence and respect. Not an allowance and a sneer.

how much you wanna bet?

i bet you one trillion dollars that the united states will still be a superpower, both economically and militarily (if not the only one, then still one of them..) in 100 years.

of course this amount would bankrupt your entire country (let alone you) and we'll likely not be alive in 100 years.

so how about 50 years?

and make it $10.
So let me get this straight...

You tell me that in 100 years you'll still be a superpower and then want me to bet that in half that time it will collapse? You must think I'm really stupid. No deal.

Besides 100 years is blink of an eye in the fullness of time. So my point stands. It's not my fault if you can't see further in time than a century...

Haha all those people who voted for the U.S are freaking nuts they would choose not to live there but live in some shit hole country like zimbabwe where most people are starving and they can't even hold free elections.
So it's an either/or proposition now? If you don't want to live in the US you HAVE to live in a poor country?

What kind of reasoning is that? There are plenty of places that are neither the US nor poor. Think before you flame.

I don't appreciate being called a nut, especially after explaining the logic behind my choice. How about you try to refute my points before going into namecalling?

I am here to set the retards that truly think the USA is the most screwed country in the world straight. The USA has been a Superpower since 1850 and will continue to be the ONLY superpower on this world until Yellowstone park explodes in a huge volcanic explosion or when the entire world unites under one government.

I don't appreciate being called a nut, especially after explaining the logic behind my choice. How about you try to refute my points before going into namecalling?

4 more YeaRs!

Yeah, Africa, that's all the US's fault. :rolleyes:

We should have listened to Europe when they told us: "Don't invade Africa, set up brutal colonies, exploit the land and oppress the populace for a hundered years. 'Cos that'll really fuck africa up."


It's like Europe had a crystal ball about this or something. :rolleyes:


Ummmmm.......When you look at it, Britain came up with the idea of getting slaves from africa and sent ships to get them, the U.S. just 'copied' them!

africa

I don't think America's future is screwed.

I do have reason to be pessimistic on some issues, but I think we're all forgetting the 1970s. We had people like Nixon and Kissinger in charge, we were going to be eaten alive by the Japanese uber-economy, and unemployment, inflation, and international tensions were problems.

Now, we have people like Bush and Rumsfeld in charge, we are going to be eaten alive by the Chinese uber-economy, and actually, unemployment, inflation, and international tensions are less of a problem now than they were then.

My point is, as a country, the United States has been in difficult positions before, but we some how managed to pull ourselves out of it. We will have our lulls and lapses of judgement just as we always have.

To base the future on the current state of affairs is to be short-sighted and to ignore our modern history.

Militarily, I'd have to say Lesotho is the most screwed. They're just a little tiny dot right in the middle of South Africa. How defensible a location is that??

The questions wasn't the worst place to live, or the place with the worst conditions, it was the most screwed.
The American Dream used to be that you work hard, and you get a nice life. That's getting screwed. The majority of the weath in the US is controlled by something like the top 2 per cent of the population.


And this is different from when? Are you saying this is getting more concentrated or less? Look at the chart from 1922 - 1998. Maybe you can see an underlying long term pattern, I cannot.

http://www.faireconomy.org/research/wealth_charts.html

Even if your statement was true, is that a bad thing? If so, why is it a bad thing and how do you equate it to being screwed as a country? Keep in mind that wealth and income are two different things.


The Bush administration is burning through our goodwill with foriegn nations.


Oh please. even if that were true, there are plenty of countries that are very pro America. If there is going to a slight shuffling amonst nations, then so be it. Whats the big deal. For every protestor screaming "America sux", there is someone who remembers all the good America has done.


Was Saddam a $%^&* and a personification of Evil? Yes, he was a bad man, but we went to war, attacked a sovern nation, and misinformed the American public as to why we were doing it.


Its done. Hopefully it will turn out well. Things look better now than before. How does this contribute to your argument that we are screwed? Personally, I think the future in the Middle East is brighter than ever. Look at all the good things that are happening there..if Sharon can only keep his grip on sanity it would be nice also.


Rumsfield tells the world that the prisoners that were mistreated might not have been covered by the Geneva Convention. Come on, we are supposed to be the good guys.


We are the good guys. Same with the UK, France(sigh), Germany and almost all developed nations. Get your perspective straight. You think what happens to people captured by the US during wartime is bad.... Travel a little. Getting the shit beat out of you for 36hrs by the police to extract a confession is routine in many countries, including the country I am in now(India).

A friend of mine's driver cracked up his car(probably drunk) one too many times and when he went to get him out of of the police station(course he had to pay off the cops), they offered to teach his driver a lesson. He said dont bother, he was just gonna fire the guy, the cops said that since he had already paid them, they owed him one. So the next time he needs someone beat up(by the police), he is already paid in full. This happens everywhere, just not in countries like the US.

And you question whether we are the good guys?


Our beloved president got arrested for driving under the influence of cocaine at the age of 35 and called it a youthful folly.


He was arrested for a DWI. That was decades ago. He has stopped drinking. Are you seriously telling me that you dont have respect for a man who battled and DEFEATED alcohol. I think this is a good insight into his character, his dad is rich enough that he could have stayed drunk and not worked a day in his life yet he chose to fight it. Wonder if you feel the same way about Kennedy who apparantly doesnt even bother to fight and instead of ONLY getting a DWI, he managed to kill a girl.

In any case, how does the presidents ancient DWI have any bearing on whether America is screwed... come on, you can do better than that.


He wants to put the kind of people who screwed Americans in the Savings and Loan scandal in a position to handle social security monies.


The biggest problem with the S&L scandal was the govt sticking its nose into and out of places where it doesnt belong. That being said, you know that John McCain was one of the Keating Five yet all the libs seem to love him. Are you saying that McCain should be booted.

And as far aas social security goes, you do realize that both Republicans and Democrats have spent this money and replaced it with IOU slips and they have been doing this since the program started. There isnt any money there.


I think America's future is screwed because the majority of Americans don't know that they are being screwed now. We aren't looking at history, we aren't looking at what's going on in the world, we aren't looking at what's going on in the country. Political arguements have pretty much just digressed into spewing catchphrases at each other.
I am not saying all Americans are hopeless, I am not saying America is hopeless, I am saying that unless we Americans start thinking. The future of America is screwed.

Yes please. Please start thinking. Stop getting your info from news soundbites.

industrialized countries tend to be much more corrupt with all sorts of people that want themselves or the people who don't help the government to all be helped by the government

Apparantly you have never been to Nigeria where you have to pay off the airport screeners along with everyone else.

I'd have to say probably Somalia or Sierra Leone... or the DRC...

I've always been strongly critical of the US, but those of you who voted that the US is the most screwed country in the world are just shockingly ignorant. I would *never* want to live in the US, that much is certain (*shudders*), but there are far, far worse places than that. If you don't know what's going on in the world, don't try to pretend you do.

Ok so i read almost all of the posts on here and from what i understand is that all the people but a few voted fo the US because in X amount of years we will eventually fall and that means we have the bleakest future even if it takes a 1000 years for this to happen. Now am i the only one that thinks thats a pretty dumb argument by that logic i say it's the EU probly the bleakest and worse off because they are most likly the next superpower because they will have to live with raiseing to superpower status and knowing that one day they will fall like the US so everyone in Europe remember tat don't shot to be number 1 always stay number 2 because if you are number 1 you have ther bleakest future in the world. hahaha i love this arguement.

I picked the US.

The US has an energy based economy that is currently running on credit and fumes. In a very nostalgic turn the US economy hasn't been as susceptible to disruption since the early 1970s.

With the Social Security Reform move dead, the Republicans can't arbitrarily pump hundreds of billions into the stock market. Expect the stock market to hover around 9,000 to 10,000 for the next four years unless there is a dollar slide because of high oil prices and a US credit bubble collapse.

Did you notice the personal bankruptcy reform the Republicans passed in a whirlwind last week? They're trying to stave off the collapse of US credit as oil prices continue to rise.

In Iraq, just like last year at this time the insurgents are in a periode of R&R. Expect the Sunni to start kicking up hell late Spring to Summer. The Shia are quiet because the Iranians are expecting the US to hand over Iraq on a silver platter. The Shia are just bidding their time, when the anti American goverment is formed and they ask the US to leave is when things will get really hot.

I picked the US.

The US has an energy based economy that is currently running on credit and fumes. In a very nostalgic turn the US economy hasn't been as susceptible to disruption since the early 1970s.

With the Social Security Reform move dead, the Republicans can't arbitrarily pump hundreds of billions into the stock market. Expect the stock market to hover around 9,000 to 10,000 for the next four years unless there is a dollar slide because of high oil prices and a US credit bubble collapse.

Did you notice the personal bankruptcy reform the Republicans passed in a whirlwind last week? They're trying to stave off the collapse of US credit as oil prices continue to rise.

In Iraq, just like last year at this time the insurgents are in a periode of R&R. Expect the Sunni to start kicking up hell late Spring to Summer. The Shia are quiet because the Iranians are expecting the US to hand over Iraq on a silver platter. The Shia are just bidding their time, when the anti American goverment is formed and they ask the US to leave is when things will get really hot.

Do you know that drugs are bad for you? I have argued for the legalization of drugs, but you are one person that should clearly stay away.

1) how do you figure that social security reform is dead?
2) if you can predict where the US stock market is going to be, why are you here instead o makingmoney in the market?
3) Where exatly did you get your information on what the Shia are or are not going to do? Do they send you SMSs or something?

edit: and oh, BTW with regards to an energy based economy... as opposed to what other economy unless you are talking about the AMISH. What exactly is an energy based economy anyway? Do you mean one that uses more than horses to get around? Isnt hay an energy source?

I voted the US, unless some major reforms happen soon.

This is clearly about the future, not present. In 50 years, the african countries on the list will be slowly growing, without cold-war and imperialistic exploitation. A few might have bad revolutions, but there is nowhere for them to go but up, and they cant really screw each other up badly anymore.

Now look at the US. Huge dependancy on Oil. We wont have lots of time to change to an energy source when it runs out. Reserves will quickly run down, and oil will start becoming much more expensive, as it runs out. Maybe this will be 10 years, maybe 50, but it will happen. And when it does, the very foundations of america will be screwed. This disruption to the US economy can lead to a very big crash, and then possibly a revolution, or at least a very distrupted government. The US military wont be able to put a hold on it, as military equipment take gas to use, except for guns, which the american people hold a defident monopoly on, over the military.

This can be averted if fusion is made, or we supplement current oil reserves with nuclear power, and then slowly move toward more re-usable energy forms. This is much more of a problem for the US than say europe, which uses oil much less, and especially with nations like France, that use mostly nuclear power for energy. Japan might be hurt pretty bad, but most other nations will be able to recover from this without too much trouble.

Then the US will only have its nuclear arsenal to project power, and MAD will prevent it from using it. Either way, its screwed in that position.

I haven't read the thread, so I don't know if anybody mentioned it yet, but I think Somalia is the most screwed up. They can't really feed themselves, and when the UN tried to feed them warlords tried to steal the food and killed UN personell. The place is a shithole with no real government, no rule of law, and no future. Meanwhile Somaliland has started from the same lousy position and built a functioning, democratic government.

Do you know that drugs are bad for you? I have argued for the legalization of drugs, but you are one person that should clearly stay away.

1) how do you figure that social security reform is dead?
2) if you can predict where the US stock market is going to be, why are you here instead o makingmoney in the market?
3) Where exatly did you get your information on what the Shia are or are not going to do? Do they send you SMSs or something?

edit: and oh, BTW with regards to an energy based economy... as opposed to what other economy unless you are talking about the AMISH. What exactly is an energy based economy anyway? Do you mean one that uses more than horses to get around? Isnt hay an energy source?


Why do die hard Republicans have the hardest time with reality?

To quote the Rolling Stones:

"Time is on my side. Oh yes it is."

Just wait for it baby and keep watching the news over the next year.

Why do die hard Republicans have the hardest time with reality?

To quote the Rolling Stones:

"Time is on my side. Oh yes it is."

Just wait for it baby and keep watching the news over the next year.

Hey monkey boy..

Wow, what a great way to refute what I said. Quote lyrics from a song. Well, okay, its a good song, but it doesnt make your argument any better.

Why dont you simply address the point in your own words.. If you are able.


BTW: exactly how do you have any idea of my political standing? How do you know if I am a Republican or Democrat?

Im not sure which is more pathetic...
This topics poll or the one urging Europeans to support Iran.

The following people did not understand the question or are so bigoted that they choose a nation because they hate it so much:

Alexandrovsk, AnarchyforRevan, Angry Pakis, Applian, Augostino, Bashan, Biggleses, Bobs Own Pipe, British Communists, Carlinator, CelebrityFrogs, Chellis, Chrinos, Dementedus_Yammus, Democraticland, Dobbs Town, Dostoprimechatelnosti, Draconis Nightcrawlis, Dream and Fantasy, East Canuck, East Coast Federation, Eborias, Eh-oh, Europaland, Evil Woody Thoughts, Falastur, Freakstonia, Gauthier, German Nightmare, Glinde Nessroe, Grubbycup, Gurdenvazk, Habfans, Hobabwe, Iluminado, Incoherencia, Interesting Slums, International Terrans, Invisuus, Jamil, Jokinen, Jumalvuori, Jungobin, Kazcaper, Kerlapa, Kievan-Prussia, Kryozerkia, L E F, Large-N, LazyHippies, Maledicti, MEDKtulu, Monkeypimp, Morteee, Na nGael, Narcassism, Nephthys Amunet, New Granada, New Illyria, Niini, Ninjamangopuff, North Island, Nyac, Nycadaemon, Occidio Multus, Optunia, Pirate Zombie Freaks, Pissed Off Sicillian, Planners, Plutophobia, Pure Metal, Random Kingdom, Ruschp, Silly Sharks, Sirens of Titan, Skidetenland, Spaam, Spearmen, Straffe Hendrik, Sumamba Buwhan, Super commies, Talthia, Tatlia, The Half Witt Hobbits, The Mad Chao Cabal, The Magickal Forest, The Mindset, The Plutonian Empire, The Pride of Tovil, The Roxburry, The Sythe, Tograna, Trophonius, Updates, Xanaz, Zenwit, [NS]Ein Deutscher

My explanation: The question is which nation has the bleakest future, not which country is doing bad things (which is a matter of opinion). If you relly think that the US is more likely to collapse as compared to the nations that are in open rebellion, it may be best if you to some political science classes or at least think before blindly voting.

Now, for the record, I voted "Other", mostly because I like being difficult. "Other", in this case, refers to Sierra Leone, which as we all known is an entirely delightful place to live right now. North Korea's another good contender, as are AIDs-stricken West African countries. The USA, I really feel, is not. I can't see any immediate risk of severe depopulation, if nothing else, which puts it in reasonably good standing.

But I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second and address a few points that've come up now and again over the course of the thread, and which kinda bother me.

Isanybodyhome made reference to the cost of food, obesity among the lower classes, and so on as an example of the awesomeness that is America. This is a problem, not a strength. The drive to run prices into the ground, the culture of the lowest bidder, these do not lead to sustainable farming practices.

(There was a stray comment that the example of a wealthy farmer was far more positive than an evil factory worker. What exactly do you think farms are, these days? Do you imagine that the beef in a Burger King cheeseburger comes from a cow that lived a long and happy life, chewing cud in a field somewhere?)

Even if, like myself, you feel that animal rights aren't a particularily grave issue, the ridiculous price of food in the states comes at a price, economically and environmentally. Irrigation in the meat industry is substantially subsidized by taxpayers. The amount of organic waste put out by several thousand cattle in a big cement box poisons waterways pretty throughly and really quickly. Eventually these big cement boxes ("factory farms") move elsewhere. And it's not like the immediate owners of these facilities have it all that great either; I don't have exact numbers on me right now, but chicken farms are unprofitable at a phenomenal rate, and tend not to last more than a handful of years before they fold, generally at great personal expense to the "small farmer" (the ones we're s'posed to care about. Heard of them?). With fruits and vegetables, the problems are less pronounced, naturally, but the lowest bidder system tends to produce both low-quality produce (ever tasted a properly grown apple?) and monocrops, which are substantially more vulnerable to diseases and bugs. If, y'know, we wanna talk potential disasters in the future, utter lack of agricultural diversity is up there, although not as high as the economic collapse of North American agriculture, once the environmental damage becomes too widespread for current practices, or indeed any practices, to be practical.

(here's an article a quick google turned up: http://www.poultry.org/labor_winston.htm)

Other potential arguments (off the top of my head, you understand) for America in trouble would be the teetering energy industry (again, hurt by this weird drive to keep prices down at all costs), complete breakdown of international goodwill (and I suggest reading up on what, statistically, non-Americans think of the states before you poo-poo this one), the rather terrifiying theocratic ambitions of a, thankfully, small portion of the population and ruling body, the collapse, hinted at elsewhere in this threa, of African and Southeast Asian economies on which American industry relies, massive towering hugely fuckin' enormous debt, the potential for devastating nuclear exchange with, well, somebody or other...

Not that other developing nations are in a whole lot better shape. Most of what I'm blathering on about here applies equally to Canada, Europe, Japan, Australia and so on as well. 'cept some of the more messed up political and IR related garbage.

Point is, don't be so bleedin' quick to rag on those who chose America. It's not a point of view I personally agree with, but I wouldn't say it's completely nonsensical.

I voted the US, unless some major reforms happen soon.

This is clearly about the future, not present. In 50 years, the african countries on the list will be slowly growing, without cold-war and imperialistic exploitation. A few might have bad revolutions, but there is nowhere for them to go but up, and they cant really screw each other up badly anymore.

Now look at the US. Huge dependancy on Oil. We wont have lots of time to change to an energy source when it runs out. Reserves will quickly run down, and oil will start becoming much more expensive, as it runs out. Maybe this will be 10 years, maybe 50, but it will happen. And when it does, the very foundations of america will be screwed. This disruption to the US economy can lead to a very big crash, and then possibly a revolution, or at least a very distrupted government. The US military wont be able to put a hold on it, as military equipment take gas to use, except for guns, which the american people hold a defident monopoly on, over the military.

This can be averted if fusion is made, or we supplement current oil reserves with nuclear power, and then slowly move toward more re-usable energy forms. This is much more of a problem for the US than say europe, which uses oil much less, and especially with nations like France, that use mostly nuclear power for energy. Japan might be hurt pretty bad, but most other nations will be able to recover from this without too much trouble.

Then the US will only have its nuclear arsenal to project power, and MAD will prevent it from using it. Either way, its screwed in that position.

MAD is when its MUTUAL, baring the United States declaring nuclear war with Britain, France and Russia and waiting a week without doing anything to see what happens, the US could utterly destroy any nation with ballistic missiles. I am not saying that the US could get though a modern nuclear war without any repercussions. There would be an environmental catastrophe, and a loss of all allies that did not benefit greatly. And a single retaliatory weapon of mass destruction being used on an American city would be horrific, but thats not mutual destruction.

When oil supplies run out, France and the rest of Europe will hardly be better off then The US. European modes of transport and industry with internal combustion engines are just as dependent on fuel as American ones. Sure, Europe can have its cities reworked so that there is mainly electrical powered public transportation and come up with a solution for other problems that will arise, but in The United Sates the same things will be done, and America will probably have more money to throw at a need for alternatives.

The potential revolution you speak of is nearly impossible. People start a revolution to have the government change to something they think is better. A Communism or Dictatorship will have as much of a problem with an oil shortage as a Republic, and there are many more problems associated with the former governments than the latter. And the "at lest a very disrupted government" would be able to get a new president in no more than four years, and I believe every elected official could be swapped out in no more than six years.

Saying that America in the most hopelessly screwed because it has the farthest to fall is flawed. America could fall flat on its ass and it would still be better off than many countries because of American's material wealth. Most Americans have a sturdy roof over their head, a car, running cold AND HOT water, and simple electronics like radios and alarm clocks that people in countries worse off dream of.America simply cannot fall to the level of hopelessly screwed.

MAD is when its MUTUAL, baring the United States declaring nuclear war with Britain, France and Russia and waiting a week without doing anything to see what happens, the US could utterly destroy any nation with ballistic missiles. I am not saying that the US could get though a modern nuclear war without any repercussions. There would be an environmental catastrophe, and a loss of all allies that did not benefit greatly. And a single retaliatory weapon of mass destruction being used on an American city would be horrific, but thats not mutual destruction.

When oil supplies run out, France and the rest of Europe will hardly be better off then The US. European modes of transport and industry with internal combustion engines are just as dependent on fuel as American ones. Sure, Europe can have its cities reworked so that there is mainly electrical powered public transportation and come up with a solution for other problems that will arise, but in The United Sates the same things will be done, and America will probably have more money to throw at a need for alternatives.

The potential revolution you speak of is nearly impossible. People start a revolution to have the government change to something they think is better. A Communism or Dictatorship will have as much of a problem with an oil shortage as a Republic, and there are many more problems associated with the former governments than the latter. And the "at lest a very disrupted government" would be able to get a new president in no more than four years, and I believe every elected official could be swapped out in no more than six years.

Saying that America in the most hopelessly screwed because it has the farthest to fall is flawed. America could fall flat on its ass and it would still be better off than many countries because of American's material wealth. Most Americans have a sturdy roof over their head, a car, running cold AND HOT water, and simple electronics like radios and alarm clocks that people in countries worse off dream of.America simply cannot fall to the level of hopelessly screwed.

A. None of the nuclear powers would stand it if the US fired any nuclear missiles, at all. Destroying a nation doesnt take obliterating every square inch. 50 French SLBM's could take out 50-100 million people in the larger cities, a couple would take out 8 million in new york alone. Even if the US wasn't obliterated, it would be utterly screwed. The same with russian ICBM's. China and Britain would have the least luck, but a successful attack on new york and/or san francisco would cripple the nation, assuming it hadnt already been by the oil crisis.

B. The US has a much larger dependancy on transport, etc. In europe, gas prices are already very high. Many more walk, bike, etc than in america. European nations will take a hit, but it wont be crippling. They can divert reserves to the most important things, such as public transportation and whatnot, and work toward transition. The US has millions dependant on cars for buisness, for energy, etc. It will be a crash for america, if it doesn't prepare in the mean time.

C. People revolt when there is mass discontent. Not everyone is very intelligent, and when things go bad, they blame others, quite often the government. With so many guns, and easily led people, a revolution is quite possible with the right leadership.

D. On the contrary. The one who has the furthest to fall, has the hardest time getting up. Many of the things you listed would become to expensive to get, both because oil(and energy) prices would become much higher, and without easy transport, etc, many would become unemployed. Nobody can tell the future, but the US, after an oil shortage, is ripe for a huge fall. Most other nations either are going to keep going up, or have smaller falls. The US might get screwed, and not be able to come back up.

And by the way, I am an american. I would be alive when this all happened, and I really dont want it too. I am a major advocate of increased public transportation, as well as more of our energy coming from nuclear power.

The future's not looking to bright for Iraq.

A. None of the nuclear powers would stand it if the US fired any nuclear missiles, at all. Destroying a nation doesnt take obliterating every square inch. 50 French SLBM's could take out 50-100 million people in the larger cities, a couple would take out 8 million in new york alone. Even if the US wasn't obliterated, it would be utterly screwed. The same with russian ICBM's. China and Britain would have the least luck, but a successful attack on new york and/or san francisco would cripple the nation, assuming it hadnt already been by the oil crisis.

B. The US has a much larger dependancy on transport, etc. In europe, gas prices are already very high. Many more walk, bike, etc than in america. European nations will take a hit, but it wont be crippling. They can divert reserves to the most important things, such as public transportation and whatnot, and work toward transition. The US has millions dependant on cars for buisness, for energy, etc. It will be a crash for america, if it doesn't prepare in the mean time.

C. People revolt when there is mass discontent. Not everyone is very intelligent, and when things go bad, they blame others, quite often the government. With so many guns, and easily led people, a revolution is quite possible with the right leadership.

D. On the contrary. The one who has the furthest to fall, has the hardest time getting up. Many of the things you listed would become to expensive to get, both because oil(and energy) prices would become much higher, and without easy transport, etc, many would become unemployed. Nobody can tell the future, but the US, after an oil shortage, is ripe for a huge fall. Most other nations either are going to keep going up, or have smaller falls. The US might get screwed, and not be able to come back up.

And by the way, I am an american. I would be alive when this all happened, and I really dont want it too. I am a major advocate of increased public transportation, as well as more of our energy coming from nuclear power.
A. Yes, the retaliation would be bad, but thats if America goes to war with France England or Russia and thats just not going to happen. America dose not at its leisure start nuclear wars because there will be repercussions, not repercussions like Mutual Assured Destruction, America is too big from any other country to pull this off, repercussions like the irreversible destruction of otherwise used land, and pissing off many nations. Nukes would be use only if it would save more Americans then would be lost in whatever it stopped. You don't address a motive for why America started a nuclear war. Do that and you may have more of a base to your argument.

B. I simply disagree that America will be hit much harder than Europe or anywhere else. Europe will have an easier time making cities not dependent on gas, but european farm tractors need gas just as much a american ones, same goes for european trucks freight trains and ships, and America will be able to throw more money at the problem. But this is just an opinion on a subject that I doubt ether of us is well informed in.

C. People revolt to get a better government. Any government will have the same problems with and oil shortage, plus inefficiencies inherent to that government. So its dandy that Americans are easy to lead and have lots of guns, they will need something better to be led to, that just doesn't exist. And if they want a change of leadership, they can just wait no more than four years instead of going through all the trouble of a revolution to a government with the same problems.

D. Yes, America can fall the farthest, but there is a bare minimum of wealth in material things lying around American houses (as in there, usable, already purchased) and infrastructure that won't just disappear, making it easier to get up. But the matter is IF, and even if it will not be utterly screwed, because there will still be indoor plumbing, there will still be very well trained doctors, there will still be school buildings with textbooks. America, falling as hard as possible, just cannot become as bad as it would be on other countries.

I hope everybody realizes that America will wane incredibly over the next century. Most obviously, China is eclipsing our power at a rather rapid rate, not to mention the EU.

There are three theaters of power: culture, economy, and military.

Culturally, America is doing fine. Its culture is its main export and is possibly the most valuable item in the world. Even in friggin Iran, young teens are following American styles as publicly as they can without being gunned down. They also behave in a very American way.

Economically, America is slowly waning. The dollar is dropping in value overseas every day. We are exhausted by the incredible cost of being the superhero of the modern world. We have depleted our resources with our allies across the sea. European populations generally hate us. The American market is still in recession from the consumer doubt of 9/11, and the two parties present opposite cases for resurrecting it, both telling us that the other's is bad.

Militarily, America is doomed. American troops, who are not all that numerous to begin with, are dispersed around the globe. Thousands are in the Korean DMZ, tens of thousands are in Iraq, more are in bases around the world, like in Germany, Iceland, Japan, the UK, and Spain. The army is too widely dispersed to actually protect American soil. American troops are now fighting in Iraq, a no way out situation, and will come back exhausted, and probably many of them will be just sent somewhere else, like the Balkans. Also, in the midst of fighting an impossible war, the army has begun to implement a plan costing hundreds of billions of dollars to radically reorganize the US army, making tanks into drone robots, along with medical units, mortars, and mobile command posts, among others. The cost of this and the idiotic 'world policeman' tactics of America will cost us more than the people in power seem to see.

Hey monkey boy..

Wow, what a great way to refute what I said. Quote lyrics from a song. Well, okay, its a good song, but it doesnt make your argument any better.

Why dont you simply address the point in your own words.. If you are able.


BTW: exactly how do you have any idea of my political standing? How do you know if I am a Republican or Democrat?


Well you really didn't say anything except to question my species, you really didn't make a point.

Of course the "Republican" tag was a guess, (not much of a stretch really) and if I could venture further I would say your a under 18 young republican male whose daddy makes a killing off of generouse Republican red state corporate wellfare.

Like most of the 33% of Americans who still believe the economy is doing OK you think it's a patriotic duty to loot the US treasury. :D

A. Yes, the retaliation would be bad, but thats if America goes to war with France England or Russia and thats just not going to happen. America dose not at its leisure start nuclear wars because there will be repercussions, not repercussions like Mutual Assured Destruction, America is too big from any other country to pull this off, repercussions like the irreversible destruction of otherwise used land, and pissing off many nations. Nukes would be use only if it would save more Americans then would be lost in whatever it stopped. You don't address a motive for why America started a nuclear war. Do that and you may have more of a base to your argument.

B. I simply disagree that America will be hit much harder than Europe or anywhere else. Europe will have an easier time making cities not dependent on gas, but european farm tractors need gas just as much a american ones, same goes for european trucks freight trains and ships, and America will be able to throw more money at the problem. But this is just an opinion on a subject that I doubt ether of us is well informed in.

C. People revolt to get a better government. Any government will have the same problems with and oil shortage, plus inefficiencies inherent to that government. So its dandy that Americans are easy to lead and have lots of guns, they will need something better to be led to, that just doesn't exist. And if they want a change of leadership, they can just wait no more than four years instead of going through all the trouble of a revolution to a government with the same problems.

D. Yes, America can fall the farthest, but there is a bare minimum of wealth in material things lying around American houses (as in there, usable, already purchased) and infrastructure that won't just disappear, making it easier to get up. But the matter is IF, and even if it will not be utterly screwed, because there will still be indoor plumbing, there will still be very well trained doctors, there will still be school buildings with textbooks. America, falling as hard as possible, just cannot become as bad as it would be on other countries.

A. I never said the US would. I said the US could only project power, after the oil crash, with nuclear weapons.

B. Money cant be thrown at a problem like this. Without an established program already in place, money wont help. You cant build nuclear plants, nor any other signifigant, alternative power plants without energy. We will have to rely on oil reserves and what little nuclear energy we already have, and that will still prove difficult. In european nations, they dont have large oil dependancies. They will cut down on many things, and conserve for the most important things. Europe is more prepared for such a crash.

C. Again, people arent smart in general. They revolt with mass discontent. It does not matter if a new government won't help. People will scapegoat the current government, and do anything in their power to get rid of it. And when they find that they cant drive, their energy bills quadruple, and food gets more expensive(From transportation, conserving, etc), they will revolt, which in turn make things worse.

D. The oil crash will only be the beginning. Its not going to be "well, we went through a hardship, lets all work together and rebuild". Its going to be a chain reaction. With prices jumping up, inflation is bound to occur. I already stated the revolutionary problems. I may be making this sound like armageddon, but thats what it looks like for america. It could very well become a lawless place.

I hope everybody realizes that America will wane incredibly over the next century. Most obviously, China is eclipsing our power at a rather rapid rate, not to mention the EU.

There are three theaters of power: culture, economy, and military.

Culturally, America is doing fine. Its culture is its main export and is possibly the most valuable item in the world. Even in friggin Iran, young teens are following American styles as publicly as they can without being gunned down. They also behave in a very American way.

Economically, America is slowly waning. The dollar is dropping in value overseas every day. We are exhausted by the incredible cost of being the superhero of the modern world. We have depleted our resources with our allies across the sea. European populations generally hate us. The American market is still in recession from the consumer doubt of 9/11, and the two parties present opposite cases for resurrecting it, both telling us that the other's is bad.

Militarily, America is doomed. American troops, who are not all that numerous to begin with, are dispersed around the globe. Thousands are in the Korean DMZ, tens of thousands are in Iraq, more are in bases around the world, like in Germany, Iceland, Japan, the UK, and Spain. The army is too widely dispersed to actually protect American soil. American troops are now fighting in Iraq, a no way out situation, and will come back exhausted, and probably many of them will be just sent somewhere else, like the Balkans. Also, in the midst of fighting an impossible war, the army has begun to implement a plan costing hundreds of billions of dollars to radically reorganize the US army, making tanks into drone robots, along with medical units, mortars, and mobile command posts, among others. The cost of this and the idiotic 'world policeman' tactics of America will cost us more than the people in power seem to see.


I agree with you on the cultural front. US pop culture is rather Borg-like.

For economics, people have been doom-saying about the US economy is quite similar words since the 1970s and all the "Imperial Overstretch" nonsense. The dollar is free floating, and thus self-correcting. Already it seems to have bottomed out. Besides, Europe is a spent force. They're doing OK for the moment, but look at the demographics. The clock is running out for Western Europe. It's a simple case of too many pensioners, not enough workers. And China, while a threat, is a threat still a ways off. All these dire predicitons are based upon China maintaining stunning rates of growth for decades. But as they develop, the growth rates will decline. The rates you rack up during economic takeoff and those after the economy is amture are VERY different. They may stay high, like the US had vis a vis Europe, but don't expect double digit growth for fifty years like many of the gloom-and-doom folks predict.

Militarily, I don't entirly see your point. So the US Army isn't in the US to defend it. So what? Anyone wanting to attck would need to pass the US Navy still, and that's simply not going to happen. The world's combined ampibious lift capacity is insufficent to place a large enough force on the US, even without the nightmarish drubbing they'd get crossing the ocean. Besides, we've had most of our land combat power based overseas since about 1942 or so, and it hasn't been a problem. Things are stretched tight for the army at the moment, yes. But this too shall pass.

A. I never said the US would. I said the US could only project power, after the oil crash, with nuclear weapons.

I can only assume you class nuclear powered warships as "nuclear weapons." Or are you simply ignorant of the power projection abilities of naval forces?


B. Money cant be thrown at a problem like this. Without an established program already in place, money wont help. You cant build nuclear plants, nor any other signifigant, alternative power plants without energy. We will have to rely on oil reserves and what little nuclear energy we already have, and that will still prove difficult. In european nations, they dont have large oil dependancies. They will cut down on many things, and conserve for the most important things. Europe is more prepared for such a crash.

Europe doesn't have large oil dependencies? My my, do you know who buys most Gulf oil?

C. Again, people arent smart in general. They revolt with mass discontent. It does not matter if a new government won't help. People will scapegoat the current government, and do anything in their power to get rid of it. And when they find that they cant drive, their energy bills quadruple, and food gets more expensive(From transportation, conserving, etc), they will revolt, which in turn make things worse.

Much like the revolts that toppled the US government in the 1970's. Oh wait, that didn't happen. People voted like normal.

D. The oil crash will only be the beginning. Its not going to be "well, we went through a hardship, lets all work together and rebuild". Its going to be a chain reaction. With prices jumping up, inflation is bound to occur. I already stated the revolutionary problems. I may be making this sound like armageddon, but thats what it looks like for america. It could very well become a lawless place.

Don't you wish. I'm always amazed at the various theories people come up with that lead to the fall of civilization in the US, but leaves Europe or various other places untouched.

Well you really didn't say anything except to question my species, you really didn't make a point.

Of course the "Republican" tag was a guess, (not much of a stretch really) and if I could venture further I would say your a under 18 young republican male whose daddy makes a killing off of generouse Republican red state corporate wellfare.

Like most of the 33% of Americans who still believe the economy is doing OK you think it's a patriotic duty to loot the US treasury. :D

I am 33, just turned. My dad is a doctor(came to the Us in the late 60s). He is a Republican, I guess for lack of a better party I am too. But I dont live in the US anymore.

And as to my dad making a killing.. he does okay. He does a lot better now given that he bought a bunch of buildings for pocket change(literally) back in the 80s

Oh, I grew up in NY, and went to college(NYU)/spent most of my life in NYC a decidedly blue state. Worked there after college for almost 8 years. Did you have a point or are you mearly venting?


edit: removed "moronic"..it was uncalled for

A. I never said the US would. I said the US could only project power, after the oil crash, with nuclear weapons.

B. Money cant be thrown at a problem like this. Without an established program already in place, money wont help. You cant build nuclear plants, nor any other signifigant, alternative power plants without energy. We will have to rely on oil reserves and what little nuclear energy we already have, and that will still prove difficult. In european nations, they dont have large oil dependancies. They will cut down on many things, and conserve for the most important things. Europe is more prepared for such a crash.

C. Again, people arent smart in general. They revolt with mass discontent. It does not matter if a new government won't help. People will scapegoat the current government, and do anything in their power to get rid of it. And when they find that they cant drive, their energy bills quadruple, and food gets more expensive(From transportation, conserving, etc), they will revolt, which in turn make things worse.

D. The oil crash will only be the beginning. Its not going to be "well, we went through a hardship, lets all work together and rebuild". Its going to be a chain reaction. With prices jumping up, inflation is bound to occur. I already stated the revolutionary problems. I may be making this sound like armageddon, but thats what it looks like for america. It could very well become a lawless place.

Justice Cardozo did a good job or covering all this, but i have Three things to add to what he said.
For A. Then why is this point relevent to if the US would be utterly screwed? And for C. No, all revolutions happen because if they succeed the problems of the old government would be gone, which would not be the case, even the dumbest of people would understand that. Also, by your logic everyone everywhere would revolt under these circumstances.
And to your whole argument, you seem to ignore almost completely that other countries will have to deal with these problems, plus the lessened demand for exports to the US, so even if you are absolutely right on every point, countries dependent on exports to the US would be worse off.

Wow-the theories that spew from the small minded armed with a computer.
The US will be around long after the last meally-mouthed malcontent lashes out against it with a small, hateful and lopsided opinion.
It will still be considered a super power. And the rest of the world will still quietly loathe it, because of how much younger a nation it is and how rich it is. But they will still all warble like flightless chicks, waiting for worms to be shoved in their noisy mouths.
And I still wont care what they think.

Well you really didn't say anything except to question my species, you really didn't make a point.

Of course the "Republican" tag was a guess, (not much of a stretch really) and if I could venture further I would say your a under 18 young republican male whose daddy makes a killing off of generouse Republican red state corporate wellfare.

Like most of the 33% of Americans who still believe the economy is doing OK you think it's a patriotic duty to loot the US treasury. :D
You still didn't answer his question as to what an "energy based" economy is.

Tuvalu - the only country whose very physical existence is under threat, I believe.

Seriously, US-bashers, there's no comparison between joyful jesusland and the horrors in DR Congo, Sierra Leone, Equatorial Guinea, Sudan, Liberia, Guinea, CAR...

Any hope in Africa? Of course, but many states were shafted from the moment colonialists started drawing Big Straight Lines.

Tuvalu - the only country whose very physical existence is under threat, I believe.

Seriously, US-bashers, there's no comparison between joyful jesusland and the horrors in DR Congo, Sierra Leone, Equatorial Guinea, Sudan, Liberia, Guinea, CAR...

Any hope in Africa? Of course, but many states were shafted from the moment colonialists started drawing Big Straight Lines.

that's odd, i'd call congo sierra leone equatorial guinea and all them places very good places. they do have deseases, and some of them have odd governments, but the land is extremely nice there. the rainforest desert and steppe, all nice places.

I wasn't suggesting that the countries specified were the victims of Big Straight Lines.

'Odd' governments? In the way that child molesters are 'odd', yes, I suppose so.

i would say Iraq beacuse they are either going to be under US Control for ever or they will fall back to the Baath Party when the US leaves... and then they go back to a Dictatorship... so honestly tell me why are we even there?

Tragically, if that proves true than Iraq will most likely still be in a better position than the DRC.

I believe the US BECAUSE:

Its national debt is virtually impossible to pay off, it is depending on mainly Japan and China for loans. The interest alone is $400,000,000,000 per year. The African nations will after a few decades even out, becoming more balanced.

The average American won't notice until the dollar is almost worthless, and the country will have troubles to keep up the imports. Right now the US has a huge trade deficit, importing much more than it exports.

The economy of the US is falling as China's is rising, in a matter of years China will have the largest overall market. Right now it is the largest market for steel, cement, aluminum, cell phones, and electronic components.

The question was not where it is worst to live, rather who has the bleakest future. I think it is the US. Others might not. Freedom of expression.

Side note:
US foreign aid is relatively small after the end of the cold war(compared to GDP Norway and Sweden are the biggest contributors).

I believe the US BECAUSE:

Its national debt is virtually impossible to pay off, it is depending on mainly Japan and China for loans. The interest alone is $400,000,000,000 per year. The African nations will after a few decades even out, becoming more balanced.

The average American won't notice until the dollar is almost worthless, and the country will have troubles to keep up the imports. Right now the US has a huge trade deficit, importing much more than it exports.

The economy of the US is falling as China's is rising, in a matter of years China will have the largest overall market. Right now it is the largest market for steel, cement, aluminum, cell phones, and electronic components.

The question was not where it is worst to live, rather who has the bleakest future. I think it is the US. Others might not. Freedom of expression.

Side note:
US foreign aid is relatively small after the end of the cold war(compared to GDP Norway and Sweden are the biggest contributors).

You know, all of those points have been addressed in previous posts. Wow.

Yeah, Africa, that's all the US's fault. :rolleyes:

We should have listened to Europe when they told us: "Don't invade Africa, set up brutal colonies, exploit the land and oppress the populace for a hundered years. 'Cos that'll really fuck africa up."


It's like Europe had a crystal ball about this or something. :rolleyes:

Dude Europe screwed them worse
Algeria Second war battleground
Zimbabwe English Colony before separation and Mugabe
Ivory Coast French Colony
and so on

I've just joined this thread and thus only read the last two pages, but I'm surprised that North Korea has been mentioned so little. This country's future is stunningly bleak no matter what happens. It is already one of the most impoverised nations on Earth.
However, here's something most people don't seem to think about when they talk about the North Korean regime ending. If and when it ends, this could be disastrous for the entire region. Look at what reunification did to Germany. Practically killed German growth rate and ignited a recession in Europe when Germany began devaluing its monetary funds. Keep in mind West Germany was one of the richest nations in Europe at the time and East Germany was the richest of the former Eastern Bloc.
South Korea is well off, but it is by no means as well off as West Germany was. And North Korea is far below virtually any nation was in the former Eastern Bloc. A regime collapse in the near future would almost garuntee a HUGE bill for South Korea to pay to help modernize NK, a wave of possibly millions of refugees to China, Japan, Russia, and SK, and a sharp lowering of average income in SK.

No one wants the North Korean regime to continue like it is, but a sudden regime change/reunification could also prove disastrous to the region.

You know, all of those points have been addressed in previous posts. Wow.
You know, with all those who bashed those who picked US without adding anything that wasn't mentionned before, I think that's a clear case of Pot calling Kettle black.

Side note:
US foreign aid is relatively small after the end of the cold war(compared to GDP Norway and Sweden are the biggest contributors).

That's because we don't have a socialist government in charge of all the "giving" of aid.

We have private philanthropy that outstrips anything donated by any government.

So don't just count what the governments give, because that's not what the US is all about. We're about individualism.

BTW, Europeans private philanthropy pales in comparison to US philanthropy - it's because they're counting on the socialist government to give aid.

I've just joined this thread and thus only read the last two pages, but I'm surprised that North Korea has been mentioned so little. This country's future is stunningly bleak no matter what happens. It is already one of the most impoverised nations on Earth.
However, here's something most people don't seem to think about when they talk about the North Korean regime ending. If and when it ends, this could be disastrous for the entire region. Look at what reunification did to Germany. Practically killed German growth rate and ignited a recession in Europe when Germany began devaluing its monetary funds. Keep in mind West Germany was one of the richest nations in Europe at the time and East Germany was the richest of the former Eastern Bloc.
South Korea is well off, but it is by no means as well off as West Germany was. And North Korea is far below virtually any nation was in the former Eastern Bloc. A regime collapse in the near future would almost garuntee a HUGE bill for South Korea to pay to help modernize NK, a wave of possibly millions of refugees to China, Japan, Russia, and SK, and a sharp lowering of average income in SK.

No one wants the North Korean regime to continue like it is, but a sudden regime change/reunification could also prove disastrous to the region.

I mentioned North Korea earlier. I think the real catastrophe will be nuclear conflict started by North Korea as it falls.

People who think the US is the most screwed - we've been through the Great Depression - and a civil war - and it's our system that got us through both of those to become one of the most powerful nations in history.

Even if the economy (and with it the world's economy) goes into a hole, we're not screwed like some places.

BTW, Europeans private philanthropy pales in comparison to US philanthropy - it's because they're counting on the socialist government to give aid.
You're right to highlight private philanthropy, but wrong to designate European governments as socialist.

And I'm left-wing AND give a significant portion of my earnings to charitable causes, so the situation is not as simple as you wish to paint it.

The nation of Joe, he's getting old...