NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/04/01/zimbabwe050401.html

Michael Moore, eat my shorts.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4399501.stm

Ha ha. My thread was posted like two milliseconds before yours.
(And you thought Bush was corrupt . . . .)

Corruption doesn't even begin to describe this.

It's not like anyone is going to do anything about it. The UN isn't going to do anything.

They haven't done anything for Darfur, so...what are they going to do about this?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2005/04/01/zimbabwe050401.html

Michael Moore, eat my shorts.
Oh yeah. Some fucknut 2nd or 3rd world country that's corrupt, totally makes it okay for Bush to cheat in elections or put out propaganda.

Why don't you find some news of people getting shot in the Congo, to justify Iraq?

It's not like anyone is going to do anything about it. The UN isn't going to do anything.

Of course not. The UN loves Mugabe.

Ha ha. My thread was posted like two milliseconds before yours.
(And you thought Bush was corrupt . . . .)

I'll go ask the mods to merge them.

Oh yeah. Some fucknut 2nd or 3rd world country that's corrupt, totally makes it okay for Bush to cheat in elections or put out propaganda.

Why don't you find some news of people getting shot in the Congo, to justify Iraq?
I think this person means that the level of corruption in the USA could always be worse. Of course, it is by no means a justification.

It's not like anyone is going to do anything about it. The UN isn't going to do anything.
Of course they won't. They can't do anything about America's human rights abuses.

And why? Because the U.N. has no army of its own. All actions are completely "voluntary." Conservatives constantly say, "WE DON'T HAVE TO FOLLOW U.N. LAWS CUZ WE'RE A SOVRIN NATION!"

But when it comes to other wacko countries wanting to be just as corrupt, all of a sudden, we blame the U.N. for not having any power.

Tell me - Do you want the U.N. to have more power over the world or not? Because you can't single out nations. You can't pass a U.N. resolution which says, "We'll stop human rights abuses---but only in countries other than the U.S."

Sorry, but it don't work that way.

Oh yeah. Some fucknut 2nd or 3rd world country that's corrupt, totally makes it okay for Bush to cheat in elections or put out propaganda.

Zimbabwe's more like a 5th world country.

Zimbabwe's more like a 5th world country.
So then why is it news?

Do they have oil or diamonds? :confused:

So then why is it news?

Do they have oil or diamonds? :confused:

It's very rich geologically, yes.

Oh yeah. Some fucknut 2nd or 3rd world country that's corrupt, totally makes it okay for Bush to cheat in elections or put out propaganda.

Why don't you find some news of people getting shot in the Congo, to justify Iraq?

Yes, I'd forgotten for a moment that I'm a Bush-paid political spin artist. My bad.
My point was that you Americans focus so much on your own country and you could really care less about the rest of the world sometimes.
That includes the left-wing.

I'll go ask the mods to merge them.

Actually, dont. The conversations are going in seperate directions.

Yes, I'd forgotten for a moment that I'm a Bush-paid political spin artist. My bad.
My point was that you Americans focus so much on your own country and you could really care less about the rest of the world sometimes.
That includes the left-wing.
Oh, you seem to have forgotten about the hypcrites that pretend to give a damn even though they really only care about their political agendas.

It's very rich geologically, yes.
That is why. Shit like this happens every year, in fucked up countries. The only reason we're concerned with it is because it will affect the diamond trade. I hope they overthrow this dictator. The main people who keep these evil dictators in power are diamond dealers from (you guessed it) AMERICA.

Even if we placed an embargo, though, it wouldn't do a bit of good, because they have other places to sell their diamonds. Or they could just smuggle them.

If the U.S. or the U.N. had any balls, they'd have fixed Africa by now. But no, we haven't gotten involved, because we already benefit from it, financially, so we have nothing to gain and plenty to lose.

I love it when people say GWB's adminiatration is so corrupt. This administration can't hold a candle to, say the Grant administration, for example.

That is why. Shit like this happens every year, in fucked up countries. The only reason we're concerned with it is because it will affect the diamond trade. I hope they overthrow this dictator. The main people who keep these evil dictators in power are diamond dealers from (you guessed it) AMERICA.

Even if we placed an embargo, though, it wouldn't do a bit of good, because they have other places to sell their diamonds. Or they could just smuggle them.

If the U.S. or the U.N. had any balls, they'd have fixed Africa by now. But no, we haven't gotten involved, because we already benefit from it, financially, so we have nothing to gain and plenty to lose.

We do have an embargo in place right now.

I love it when people say GWB's adminiatration is so corrupt. This administration can't hold a candle to, say the Grant administration, for example.

Exactly! Grant was one of history's greatest nepotists. Harding and Nixon were exactly beacons of integrity, either.

Oh, you seem to have forgotten about the hypcrites that pretend to give a damn even though they really only care about their political agendas.

No, I definitely remembered that. Everyone has an agenda, and that includes me.

No, I definitely remembered that. Everyone has an agenda, and that includes me.
I have an agenda?

*blink*

Oh right, and my agenda right now includes kicking that piece of crap computer I'm trying to configure and get food.

Africa is hell on earth.

If the U.S. or the U.N. had any balls, they'd have fixed Africa by now. But no, we haven't gotten involved, because we already benefit from it, financially, so we have nothing to gain and plenty to lose.

And why, exactly, should it be the job of a foriegn power to "fix" Africa?
No one needed to "fix" Europe, and they went through plenty of evil dicators, oppressive foriegn regimes, oppressive local regimes, wars, famine, plagues, etc., etc. Not only that, but Europe isn't nearly as gifted in resources as Africa.
Not only that, but an attempt to "fix" a foriegn country would be unpopular with the very people who would pretend to want it (Iraq is being "fixed", Afghanistan is being "fixed").
Finally, people used to believe that they were doing a favor by buying African slaves from their brothers and shipping them off to be "civilized". That didn't work out nearly as well as they thought it should, now did it?

Africa is hell on earth.

Damn straight.

Africa is hell on earth.
Only where there is war, famine, rampant corruption... Oh...never mind.

Oh yeah. Some fucknut 2nd or 3rd world country that's corrupt, totally makes it okay for Bush to cheat in elections or put out propaganda.

Why don't you find some news of people getting shot in the Congo, to justify Iraq?

you are completely invalid:

a)Bush did NOT cheat in the elections. He won 2004 straight-up and the only reason we had that long recount in 2000 is because GORE begged the Florida Supreme Court for it, AND THEY GAVE IT TO HIM, ESSENTIALLY TEARING DOWN EXISTING FLORIDA LAW TO DO SO (activist court).

b)EVERY politician puts out propaganda. IT'S WHAT THEY DO! Were you born yesterday? (lmao, that is hilarious)

c)If you still don't think that Iraq is justified... then apparantly you've been living under a rock and don't know that SADDAM IS GONE and the IRAQIS are now FREE to govern themselves free of despotic control.

My God, man, it's one thing to be a whining, crying left-wing nut job... but you've got to at least try to make an argument that can stand up to some scrutiny. None of your above assertions can claim to be so valid/accurate. They are plainly.. um.. wrong.

And why, exactly, should it be the job of a foriegn power to "fix" Africa?
Why, exactly, should it be the job of a foreign power to "fix" Iraq?

Why, exactly, should it be the job of a foreign power to "fix" Iraq?

My answer: it shouldn't be.

Why, exactly, should it be the job of a foreign power to "fix" Iraq?

You idiot... because they were under SADDAM FREAKING HUSSEIN... and they COULDN'T DO IT THEMSELVES.

(i'm convinced... some of you actually are fans of Saddam! I thought you were just full of shit but no... if you can't see that him being gone is GOOD and an AID to the Iraqi people, then you are completely irrational and moronic.)

Why, exactly, should it be the job of a foreign power to "fix" Iraq?
It really wasn't, I don't even remember implying that it was. Iraq was a pretty stupid desicion, but far from the stupidest one the U.S. government has ever made. (And nowhere near as stupid as an organized attempt to "fix" Africa would end up being)

a)Bush did NOT cheat in the elections. He won 2004 straight-up and the only reason we had that long recount in 2000 is because GORE begged the Florida Supreme Court for it, AND THEY GAVE IT TO HIM, ESSENTIALLY TEARING DOWN EXISTING FLORIDA LAW TO DO SO (activist court).
And it was found that over one million black votes were thrown out. ;)

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/06/20/ING2976LG61.DTL

b)EVERY politician puts out propaganda. IT'S WHAT THEY DO! Were you born yesterday? (lmao, that is hilarious)
NAME ONE EXAMPLE. Politicians might pay under-the-table money to independent groups, to put out insulting commercials or start smear campaigns, but in the history of the United States, a politician has never gotten caught spending taxmoney on "fake news" to further their agenda. I don't know if Bush was involved, but if he was ignorant of it, then he's pretty damn incompetent.

c)If you still don't think that Iraq is justified... then apparantly you've been living under a rock and don't know that SADDAM IS GONE and the IRAQIS are now FREE to govern themselves free of despotic control.
Take a look at footage of Iraq before the Iraqi war (there's some in Fahrenheit 9\11). Hussein imprisoned his political enemies, but he didn't just go out and randomly torture people. Hussein was a dictator, not a religious fanatic. He didn't care about the shit his people did, as long as they didn't get too rich or criticize him (no different than the Shah of Iran, who we SUPPORTED).

Oh yeah. Some fucknut 2nd or 3rd world country that's corrupt, totally makes it okay for Bush to cheat in elections or put out propaganda.

Why don't you find some news of people getting shot in the Congo, to justify Iraq?


dude, crack kills. get a grip

c)If you still don't think that Iraq is justified... then apparantly you've been living under a rock and don't know that SADDAM IS GONE and the IRAQIS are now FREE to govern themselves free of despotic control.


Yeah, Saddam's out and the terrorists are in. Perfect trade-off.

It really wasn't, I don't even remember implying that it was. Iraq was a pretty stupid desicion, but far from the stupidest one the U.S. government has ever made. (And nowhere near as stupid as an organized attempt to "fix" Africa would end up being)
No, because isolationism is idiotic. You don't need to "losers" in order to have "winners." A strong, democratic, and stable Africa would be a huge benefit to the world.

You idiot... because they were under SADDAM FREAKING HUSSEIN... and they COULDN'T DO IT THEMSELVES.
Uh.. What makes you think Africans can do it themselves?

And it was found that over one million black votes were thrown out. ;)

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/06/20/ING2976LG61.DTL


NAME ONE EXAMPLE. Politicians might pay under-the-table money to independent groups, to put out insulting commercials or start smear campaigns, but in the history of the United States, a politician has never gotten caught spending taxmoney on "fake news" to further their agenda. I don't know if Bush was involved, but if he was ignorant of it, then he's pretty damn incompetent.


Take a look at footage of Iraq before the Iraqi war (there's some in Fahrenheit 9\11). Hussein imprisoned his political enemies, but he didn't just go out and randomly torture people. Hussein was a dictator, not a religious fanatic. He didn't care about the shit his people did, as long as they didn't get too rich or criticize him (no different than the Shah of Iran, who we SUPPORTED).

You rip on propaganda and go on to USE PROPAGANDA (Fahrenheit 9/11) to argue against me. lmao

i can laugh at that. i cannot laugh at your SUPPORT of SADDAM HUSSEIN.

that is unpardonable, imo... the Stalin of the Middle East... totally sick.

I bet he'll dance with you if you ask him!

(of course you might support Stalin due to his political persuasion... but i won't make assumptions)

That is why. Shit like this happens every year, in fucked up countries. The only reason we're concerned with it is because it will affect the diamond trade. I hope they overthrow this dictator. The main people who keep these evil dictators in power are diamond dealers from (you guessed it) AMERICA.

.

Dimwit, the largest diamond dealer in the world(Debeers) is not allowed to set foot in America on pain of arrest.

Uh.. What makes you think Africans can do it themselves?

Oi, given how irrational most of his arguement are, I'm guessing he believes they can do it because of that extra muscle black people have in their legs. They're obviously like ninja, because ninja wear black and Africans are black. I mean, that kind of logic matches what he's given so far... And most of the Reich Wing's other "logical" arguements...

Yes, I'd forgotten for a moment that I'm a Bush-paid political spin artist. My bad.
My point was that you Americans focus so much on your own country and you could really care less about the rest of the world sometimes.
That includes the left-wing.


AMEN

I am proud of my country and how we have grown as a people but if I am alive in 50yrs I do not know if I can say the same thing.Most all of us Americans can not say we are Native to this country(indians). We all came over from our native lands and I guess the buck stopped there.
I guess I can include left-wing as American but wish not 2 :mp5:

Bush supporter(ScottishAmerican)

I have an agenda?

*blink*

Oh right, and my agenda right now includes kicking that piece of crap computer I'm trying to configure and get food.

When I say everyone has an agenda, I mean everyone has a particular political bias, and a pov they want to get accross. I hate Dems and Republicans, so I don't really have a political agenda. My agenda was to get people to look at the article by including Michael Moore's name in the post, since he's a controversial figure.

You rip on propaganda and go on to USE PROPAGANDA (Fahrenheit 9/11) to argue against me. lmao

i can laugh at that. i cannot laugh at your SUPPORT of SADDAM HUSSEIN.

that is unpardonable, imo... the Stalin of the Middle East... totally sick.

I bet he'll dance with you if you ask him!

(of course you might support Stalin due to his political persuasion... but i won't make assumptions)
Frangland, please note the distinction:

Fahrenheit 9\11 - INDEPENDENT
Amstrong Williams and Maggie Gallagher - TAXPAYER FUNDED

Dimwit, the largest diamond dealer in the world(Debeers) is not allowed to set foot in America on pain of arrest.
REALLY?

http://www.adiamondisforever.com/buy/find_jewel.html

Why, exactly, should it be the job of a foreign power to "fix" Iraq?

Quick now, who supplied weapons and assistance to the Ba'athists from the mid 1950's through to today, enabling them to seize power in Iraq, and then hold it?

Yah. Two groups, the Soviets, and the United States.

Now...

Two foreign powers screwed things up in Iraq over a fifty year period, allowing and at times enabling a psychotic to indulge his sadistic impulses over a period of decades.

Who, then, has more responsibility to try and make amends by removing said scumbag, and his leeches, and giving the Iraqi people a fair chance at something better?

(Keep in mind, the "Soft Way" of protests and sanctions was not working spectacularly well... Thugs don't listen to reason unless it's backed by a strong threat of force. it is the nature of thuggery.)

Yeah... do you want a justification that can soothe your leftist soul? The U.S. helped prop up that prick and his friends, in collusion with the Soviets (whom are no more...). With the Soviet Union gone, it falls in our lap to clean up the mess we helped to make-and remove the scumbag we helped keep in charge. When you're working on a house, you don't leave a mess behind. this is also why Manuel Noriega is now rotting in jail, dude. Neatness counts. WE have an OBLIGATION to remove scumbag dictators that we helped (in the past) to either install, or prop up-especially if they're of the sort that can keep their victims from fighting back effectively.

The locals Couldn't do it, and the U.N. wouldn't do it-too many popular members were making money on the side black-marketing in partnership with... Saddam.

It's like the Taliban-who wouldn't have been able to seize power in Afghanistan if the U.S. hadn't pulled its support from the Moderates and allowed Pakistan to finance their Pushtun Brothers without sanctions. We helped the Afghans beat the Soviets, but then, we didn't finish the job-we abandoned the work undone, and so we had to go back, and fix what we broke.

Zimbabwe's problems are not an American concern... oh, and while DeBeers has agents in the U.S., they're a "Franchise", not the parent company (whose directors would, if they set foot off the plane in NY or LA) be arrested at customs for Racketeering. Standing warrants going back to about 1978 or so. (THank you Mister Carter...)

OK, so...

Diamond sales are bad because they fund foreign dictators.
Cocaine sales are bad because they fund foreign dictators.

With diamonds, only the MANUFACTURERS are banned, but not the dealers.
With cocaine, both are banned.

What's the difference? :confused: Because we, Americans, need to look pretty?

(no different than the Shah of Iran, who we SUPPORTED).

The Shah was awesome. Yes, he had his faults, but he brought Iran into the 20th century.