NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4396905.stm

Can anyone say Trade war?

Cool! We need a good trade war to bring manufacturing here in the US back on line. More jobs for us!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4396905.stm

Can anyone say Trade war?
Leave it to a democrat to muddy the economic waters. Sigh. :(

Gee, what a shame...

Cool! We need a good trade war to bring manufacturing here in the US back on line. More jobs for us!
How would that mean more jobs for Americans? The sanctions would make our exports 15 percent more expensive.

This, I suspect, has little to do with the Byrd Amendment. It is protectionism in disguise. The euro is way too strong, as are several other European currencies. Their massive export sector can absorb the costs for only so long. If it remains this strong any longer, their trade surpluses they love so much will falter. The sanctions are an attempt to protect that. But that's just my theory.

Gee, what a shame...
So I take it you're in favor of the sanctions?

How would that mean more jobs for Americans? The sanctions would make our exports 15 percent more expensive.
We would retaliate with tarrifs on European goods, and that would make people here buy American. I'm under the impression that we buy more from the EU than we sell to them. Am I wrong?

We would retaliate with tarrifs on European goods, and that would make people here buy American. I'm under the impression that we buy more from the EU than we sell to them. Am I wrong?


You are correct, with buy lots more from the EU than we sell to them. Hence the trade deficit being larger than it ever has in the past 50 years. Let them impose sanctions I will welcome the decrease in the Nations Trade Deficit. I have always proposed a fair trade law.

The US will buy as much from you and you buy from the US.

You know, if we don't immediately capitulate this is going to be bad for them in the long run, at least for europe. Their stuff tends to be more expensive and if we have less money coming into the US there is going to be less money to spend on european goods. Stupid of them really.

Germany is exporter number 1 in the world. While the US are not our most important trade partner, any further actions against German exports from the US, will probably have political consequences. I know about the Byrd Amendment and that it was ruled illegal. That the US has failed to change it's legislation according to the WTO ruling, is no surprise. Considering that the US excempts itself from all sorts of laws, it's no surprise that it also excempts itself from the rules of fair trade.

The EU is the world's strongest economy - you'll see what happens if you lose the EU as trading partner.

This, I suspect, has little to do with the Byrd Amendment. It is protectionism in disguise. The euro is way too strong, as are several other European currencies. Their massive export sector can absorb the costs for only so long. If it remains this strong any longer, their trade surpluses they love so much will falter. The sanctions are an attempt to protect that. But that's just my theory.

Nice theory, but one that does not fit the historical, geographical or economic facts of this case. It is more than just the EU that brought this action against the USA with the WTO.

The EU, Japan, Canada, Brazil, India, Mexico, Chile and South Korea have long argued that Byrd Amendment payments to US ball bearing, steel, candle, pasta, seafood and other companies constituted an illegal subsidy.
Source: BBC again (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3615030.stm)


At the time this article was written (end of 2004) the Dollar was strong against the Brazilian Real, currency strength is not a factor.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4396905.stm

Can anyone say Trade war?
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40980000/jpg/_40980573_mandy203.jpg

Ein Deutscher']

The EU is the world's strongest economy - you'll see what happens if you lose the EU as trading partner.
What? Hold on to more of our hard currency rather than giving it to you guys?

Nice theory, but one that does not fit the historical, geographical or economic facts of this case. It is more than just the EU that brought this action against the USA with the WTO.



At the time this article was written (end of 2004) the Dollar was strong against the Brazilian Real, currency strength is not a factor.
This was done specifically by the European Commission, however. Besides, this is more of the realm of politics, and not trade. If the Byrd Amendment existed twenty years ago, and the WTO existed then, then the Europeans wouldn't dare do anything like this, as they were too close to the US.

What? Hold on to more of our hard currency rather than giving it to you guys?
If most Americans weren't fat and lazy slobs, they'd maybe not need to import so much :p

yay! go EU! its about time we got a spine...


[/possible ignorance of past international relations goings-on]

bump

Was wondering when this would happen. Was a matter of time.

Although I think 'sanctions' is too harsh a word to use.

What? Hold on to more of our hard currency rather than giving it to you guys?
We could also hold on to our euro's. Which are beeing pumped into the US economy. All 889 billion of them.

We could also hold on to our euro's. Which are beeing pumped into the US economy. All 889 billion of them.

Ahhh, but you have a trade surplus with the US, this means we buy more from you that you buy from us... If trade stops, your jobs will get hurt first and harder. But then again, your big business has been getting protection from your governments that puts US protectionism to shame. So, in the end, I predict higher taxes in the EU subject states. Don't kid yourselves. Germany and France are no more independant any longer than New York or Georgia.

Not that I'm worried, the company I work for now is multinational and is the only one in the world capable of making what we do. My job is safe. :) Unless people everywhere want to be blind.

You EU people will face hard times ahead.

You US people will face hard times ahead. :rolleyes:

Everyone will. The question is when. Of course, it is healthy and natural to have hard times. It is all part of the business cycle.

This was done specifically by the European Commission, however. Besides, this is more of the realm of politics, and not trade. If the Byrd Amendment existed twenty years ago, and the WTO existed then, then the Europeans wouldn't dare do anything like this, as they were too close to the US.

Plus, the EU wasn't really a single economic area 20 years ago, so co-ordination between all the member states in such a matter was a bit more difficult. The Internal market only (theoretically) came into existence in 1992, under the Single European Act of 1986. Now the EU is the largest economy in the world (although China risks taking over both the EU and the US in the near future.)

This is just a sign of the end of US economic domination. The WTO now thinks that it has the power to challenge US economic power with the co-operation of the EU and a few other states; it will be interesting to see what the outcome is.

On a side note - Wolfowitz at the World Bank??? Argh!!

You EU people will face hard times ahead.

Hang on? If I remember correctly from my economics the US is dependent on the EU far more so than the EU is dependent on the US. In addition to this, you have three of the world's greatest economies (UK, Germany, France) concentrated in one area and working to the same goal? The EU can easily sustain itself as an economic entity, not so sure the US can though...

its about time someone did this back in the US' face. i mean how often do you see american multinationals in your country wanting you to buy their things, but as soon as you go to sell them something, its a tarrif here, union limit there. i mean, atm, holden can only export a certain amount of monaros, badged as pontiac GTOs, due to stupid limits the unions have set over there. if they were to export cars here, and we did the same, they would be bitching at us about it.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40980000/jpg/_40980573_mandy203.jpg

Something about that face just screams "Evil plotting afoot".

Earlier this month talks on the subsidies given to European aircraft maker Airbus and US manufacturer Boeing faltered when both EU trade commissioner Peter Mandelson and Robert Zoellick, former US Deputy Secretary of State, accused the other of hanging up the phone durign a call.

Talk about f*****g pathetic.

US trade regs are far more restrictive than Europe's
Its about time, some were removed, IF we have to do it this way and everyone suffers then so be it. It's a shame that it has to be.
(do you remember the UK Steel embargo in the US?)

You EU people will face hard times ahead.
Oh noooo :rolleyes:

Ahhh, but you have a trade surplus with the US, this means we buy more from you that you buy from us...
If trade stops, your jobs will get hurt first and harder.
If trade stops jobs on both sides of the Atlantic would get hurt at once. Some 7 million jobs in the US depend directly or indirectly on foreign direct investment from the EU. Which is nearly 50% of all FDI in the US. My point was both sides will lose if the "champion" of free trade continues to block the very thing they are propagating.
So, in the end, I predict higher taxes in the EU subject states. Don't kid yourselves. Germany and France are no more independant any longer than New York or Georgia.
Germany and France's exports go mainly to eachother. Their trade with eastern Europe exceeds their trade with the US. Sure, both would have a bad time. But less then those countries who rely more on the US market for their exports.

My job is safe. :)
Don't kid yourself. There is no such thing nowadays.

may i point out, the US and EU markets arnt the only ones out there?

may i point out, the US and EU markets arnt the only ones out there?
No. But it would mean the loss of literally trillions in investments. The other markets simply are not developed enough to compensate for these kind of losses.

I must say, the population of NS is acting more and more like the world leaders they aspire to be in these games, its truly amazing...

"Earlier this month talks on the subsidies given to European aircraft maker Airbus and US manufacturer Boeing faltered when both EU trade commissioner Peter Mandelson and Robert Zoellick, former US Deputy Secretary of State, accused the other of hanging up the phone durign a call."

True, both are acting like spoiled children, but they ARE acting similarly. Good to know that when it comes down to it, the people running nations and the people playing at running nations are more concerned with the size and length of their trade dicks than they are of partnership or governance.

well maybe the US should relax its trade laws a bit. btw, it isnt just the EU that are against the amendmant, as stated in the article, Japan, and even the US' neighbours Canada and Mexico are against it. whats not to say 'well, the EU is in agreence with us, and is taking a stand, we might trade more with them..'

I must say, the population of NS is acting more and more like the world leaders they aspire to be in these games, its truly amazing...

"Earlier this month talks on the subsidies given to European aircraft maker Airbus and US manufacturer Boeing faltered when both EU trade commissioner Peter Mandelson and Robert Zoellick, former US Deputy Secretary of State, accused the other of hanging up the phone durign a call."

True, both are acting like spoiled children, but they ARE acting similarly. Good to know that when it comes down to it, the people running nations and the people playing at running nations are more concerned with the size and length of their trade dicks than they are of partnership or governance.

Thankfully, Mandelson is not running a country. anymore

"light of the continuing failure of the United States to bring its legislation in conformity with its international obligations".


*laughs and laughs and laughs* ...whew... *wipes tear from eye*

Ok, US, let's make this pre-emptive. This won't hurt us as much as they think it will. Let's renew our relations with Cuba. Those people are DYING to trade with us. (no pun intended, I promise) I think we can smoke em out.

And really, I agree. This is just Europe trying to flex their muscle. Self-preservation seems to be a European heritage.

The thing is not if it hurts Europe, But that the US who go are all for free trade have put up illegal trade barriers and have not removed them after being told the should.

The US is not a "free market", If you carry on like this well put in the same group as the French.

There that should make you change your mind about that amendment.

The thing is not if it hurts Europe, But that the US who go are all for free trade have put up illegal trade barriers and have not removed them after being told the should.

The US is not a "free market", If you carry on like this well put in the same group as the French.

There that should make you change your mind about that amendment.

The US hasn't been a free trade market for MANY, MANY years. And you're right we do use our power to help ourselves. Just like Europe. They're illegal, why? Because you tell us they are? Who is the European Union again?

The US hasn't been a free trade market for MANY, MANY years. And you're right we do use our power to help ourselves. Just like Europe. They're illegal, why? Because you tell us they are? Who is the European Union again?
NO the WORLD Trade organisations tells you they are illegal. Or is this another body the US feels it does not have to comply with?

The US hasn't been a free trade market for MANY, MANY years. And you're right we do use our power to help ourselves. Just like Europe. They're illegal, why? Because you tell us they are? Who is the European Union again?

Thier Illegal because the WORLD trade organisation said so.

also the European Union is a joining of nations for economic defense against the huge number of US embargos and breaches of international law.
Or, It's a growing number or european countries banding together for mutual aid and defense, trying to lower trade and emigration barriers, to boost a group of first world nations looking for the next step.

you pick.

The US hasn't been a free trade market for MANY, MANY years. And you're right we do use our power to help ourselves. Just like Europe. They're illegal, why? Because you tell us they are? Who is the European Union again?

The EU is merely the world largest economical bloc in the world, but it isnt telling you anything; It is merely pushing for action by the WTO, a organization that the USA is a member of, and that agreed to follow (no one forced you to join the WTO, but you knew the rules when you joined).

Offcourse, as far as I am concerned.. i'd love to see the USA pull out of the WTO, and leave the rest of the world enjoy the benefits of free trade.

As a European, i beg thee, PLEASE leave the WTO.

Ein Deutscher']Germany is exporter number 1 in the world. While the US are not our most important trade partner, any further actions against German exports from the US, will probably have political consequences. I know about the Byrd Amendment and that it was ruled illegal. That the US has failed to change it's legislation according to the WTO ruling, is no surprise. Considering that the US excempts itself from all sorts of laws, it's no surprise that it also excempts itself from the rules of fair trade.

The EU is the world's strongest economy - you'll see what happens if you lose the EU as trading partner.


Germany exports to China, who then adds a "Made in China" sticker and exports it again?
I have yet to see any goods, used on a day to day basis- clothing, tools, computers, toys etc-made in Germany. A few cars, some optics. But not near the scale of China.

"light of the continuing failure of the United States to bring its legislation in conformity with its international obligations".


*laughs and laughs and laughs* ...whew... *wipes tear from eye*

Ok, US, let's make this pre-emptive. This won't hurt us as much as they think it will. Let's renew our relations with Cuba. Those people are DYING to trade with us. (no pun intended, I promise) I think we can smoke em out.

And really, I agree. This is just Europe trying to flex their muscle. Self-preservation seems to be a European heritage.


I have nothing against self preservation-its a must. But why does it always feel as if europeans are making such a strong effort to give the US a bloody nose? Thats the posture of their countries and the words of the people-why snyde and vindictive?

I have nothing against self preservation-its a must. But why does it always feel as if europeans are making such a strong effort to give the US a bloody nose? Thats the posture of their countries and the words of the people-why snyde and vindictive?


Already mentioned in "What country are you from thread". I agree. I think they're just tired of not getting that big chunk of the pie they used to get and are covering their jealousy with self-righteousness.

Ein Deutscher']If most Americans weren't fat and lazy slobs, they'd maybe not need to import so much :p
Fat lazy slobs? We work harder and longer than any European nation. You are the lazy ones. Enjoy going broke when the trade war starts.

Ein Deutscher']You US people will face hard times ahead. :rolleyes:
Not if you go ahead with this trade war. It will reinvigorate the US economy.

Ein Deutscher']If most Americans weren't fat and lazy slobs, they'd maybe not need to import so much :p

Nothing like good old-fashioned ignorance illustrated by a sweeping generalization.

This sucks. Anyone looking gleefully ahead to giant coalitions of formerly very friendly countries restricting trade further with the US isn't thinking very clearly and is probably just trying to save face with this whole "my continent's penis is bigger than your continent's penis" thing in this thread here.

Trade is good, "trade wars" (that is, diminished and less efficient trade and decreasing global prosperity" are not.

For some people - people that work, for example - the fact that reduced trade puts higher pressure and motivates some to higher rates of success is small comfort when their businesses go down the toilet or when they are laid off because of this. Maybe I'm wrong, so instead I'll just pound my chest and point out that the US could nuke the EU (and the world) several times over, so haha! I'm OK with unemployment and personal purchasing power loss as long as I have that ultimate satisfaction! ;)

This sucks. Anyone looking gleefully ahead to giant coalitions of formerly very friendly countries restricting trade further with the US isn't thinking very clearly and is probably just trying to save face with this whole "my continent's penis is bigger than your continent's penis" thing in this thread here.

My continent's penis IS bigger. Italy is bigger than Florida.

Germany exports to China, who then adds a "Made in China" sticker and exports it again?
I have yet to see any goods, used on a day to day basis- clothing, tools, computers, toys etc-made in Germany. A few cars, some optics. But not near the scale of China.
That is because most goods exported by Germany are High-Tech stuff and Industrial equipment. And you simply don't see such stuff every day...

The same goes the other way around, I rarely see a label "Made in the US" anywhere...

This sucks. Anyone looking gleefully ahead to giant coalitions of formerly very friendly countries restricting trade further with the US isn't thinking very clearly and is probably just trying to save face with this whole "my continent's penis is bigger than your continent's penis" thing in this thread here.
If you'd actually "followed" this, then you'd know that it's in responce to US tarrifs on European goods like steel. It's not all about everyone ganging up on the US, you know.

Trade is good, "trade wars" (that is, diminished and less efficient trade and decreasing global prosperity" are not.
Yes... which is why the EU is doing this. Diplomacy with the US has not worked, and so the EU is taking action. They aren't just imposing tarrifs because they have nothing better to do and it's raining outside.

For some people - people that work, for example - the fact that reduced trade puts higher pressure and motivates some to higher rates of success is small comfort when their businesses go down the toilet or when they are laid off because of this. Maybe I'm wrong, so instead I'll just pound my chest and point out that the US could nuke the EU (and the world) several times over, so haha! I'm OK with unemployment and personal purchasing power loss as long as I have that ultimate satisfaction! ;)
Believe it or not your tarrifs are harming our economy. These tarrifs are being imposed to try to counterbalance that, and force the US to back down. The nukes thing is really a non-issue, since nuking the EU would result in US (and indeed worldwide) nuclear destruction also.

This is just a sign of the end of US economic domination. The WTO now thinks that it has the power to challenge US economic power with the co-operation of the EU and a few other states; it will be interesting to see what the outcome is.

The WTO is not an economic power or trading partner. It's an organization of countries and has no vested interest on the decisions it makes. It's pupose is to to keep international trade as fluid and free of government intervention as possible.

My job is safe. :) Unless people everywhere want to be blind.
Your company makes eyes?
Who can I complain to for the crappy pair I got?

A few cars, some optics.
The ICE trains.

Not if you go ahead with this trade war. It will reinvigorate the US economy.
Are you really so sure? One thing that people often fail to see is that companies act on a global level now and goods can be made anywhere. So, if a US company which exports part of its production to Europe suddenly finds that it's products are being taxed resulting in a loss of market and profit they can decide to move at least part of their production to Europe, or better yet, all of their production to India which isn't taxed by anyone.

So, try again, harder this time.

As far as I'm concerned, Europe is merely using his right to impose economic sanctions to get back what it lost after the US imposed illegal tariffs. You can't break the rules and whine when other point it out and punish you.

And this sanctions is nowhere near the amout of money the tariff has costed european business.

Are you really so sure? One thing that people often fail to see is that companies act on a global level now and goods can be made anywhere. So, if a US company which exports part of its production to Europe suddenly finds that it's products are being taxed resulting in a loss of market and profit they can decide to move at least part of their production to Europe, or better yet, all of their production to India which isn't taxed by anyone.

So, try again, harder this time.
And two other big US tradepartners, Japan and Canada, are also very disgruntled with the tarrifs.

This will only hurt Europe if it escalates. The US economy is much stronger, and can take the hits a trade war brings without anywhere near the damage Europe would have.

So, if a US company which exports part of its production to Europe suddenly finds that it's products are being taxed resulting in a loss of market and profit they can decide to move at least part of their production to Europe, or better yet, all of their production to India which isn't taxed by anyone.

They do it anyway, regardless of sanctions. It is simply more profitable to produce it in the third World. This is not good in the sense that the US is losing jobs, but better for the company. And, Europe is probably the most expensive place in the world to produce goods, so it would be the last choice anyway.

Having just read through this entire thread, and seen the responses from the Americans here, I have just one question to ask:
Did any of you read the bloody article?!

Practically all the US responses here have been about how pathetic the EU is, how they're trying to attack the US, how they jealous etc etc etc.

Read carefully.
Point One:
The sanctions are in response to a very controversial policy (the Byrd Admendment) brought in by the US in 2000 to circumvent various free-market deals. It gave 'anti-dumping' fees to US companies, which are just thinly disguised subsidies. As an example of how this policy works, a couple of years The US refused to allow a shipload of NZ Kiwifruit into the country, claiming NZ was dumping (thus allowing the US to give an anti-dumping fee to the US kiwifruit industry and stop any competition). Their reasoning? That NZ kiwifruit is more expensive in Japan than America, which somehow 'proved' that NZ was dumping it's kiwifruit in the US. The fact that all food is more expensive in Japan, fruit especially, wasn't considered a factor at all.
Point Two:
the WTO - an independent organisation supported by most countries, including the US - found the admendment illegal. Not the EU. The EU complained to the WTO, along with seven other countries who make up the biggest trading partners the US has. Got that?
Point Three:
It wasn't just the EU complaining about it. Every major trading partner with the US has complained about this policy.
Point Four:
The WTO ordered the US to stop. Not the EU. The WTO. And they told the US to stop over a year ago. The US ignored this order (unsurprising, as the US is pretty good at ignoring what others want). For over a year, the EU, along with lots of other countries have been waiting for the US to stop. That's pretty patient I think. I can't imagine the US being that patient if it was the shoe was on the other foot.
Point Five:
Because the US has refused to stop, the EU has finally had enough and has threatened to impose sanctions. It's giving the US 1 month before doing so - which gives the US yet another chance to finally stop.
Point Six:
Once again, it's not the EU who is doing this! They responding to the fact that the US has been in flagrant disregard of various free-trade agreements it is a signatory to. And if you did read the article, you would have seen that Brazil, Canada, Chile, India, Japan, Korea and Mexico are also planning to impose sanctions, as they've also been hurt by this American policy. These countries account for, what? 90+% of the trade with the US. Something like that. If the sanctions go through, the US is screwing itself.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40980000/jpg/_40980573_mandy203.jpg
Anyone else here thinks he bares a striking resemblance to Leonard Rossiter?
http://www.leonardrossiter.com/reginaldperrin/1-3RegDespair.jpg

Well, I don't support the Byrd amentdment, but I can't be sure if this will escalate beyond this. The amendment violates the free trade agreemnets and should be revoked, but I also want to be sure there won't be any unfair sanctions.

In all the European whining about US trade barriers let's not forget that the EU has some unjustifiable trade barriers of their own.

www.ustr.gov/assets/Document_Library/Reports_Publications/2004/2004_National_Trade_Estimate/2004_NTE_Report/asset_upload_file778_4766.pdf

Oh, and what about the governement subsidies to EU products, like Airbus aircraft?

In all the European whining about US trade barriers let's not forget that the EU has some unjustifiable trade barriers of their own.

This explains why their economy has been in the tank for the past decade or two. I don't think any West European nation (except the UK at 5%) has unemployment below 9-10% or GDP growth greater than 1%-1.5%

In all the European whining about US trade barriers let's not forget that the EU has some unjustifiable trade barriers of their own.

www.ustr.gov/assets/Document_Library/Reports_Publications/2004/2004_National_Trade_Estimate/2004_NTE_Report/asset_upload_file778_4766.pdf

Oh, and what about the governement subsidies to EU products, like Airbus aircraft?

It isn't just the EU though. Canada is also imposing sanctions on the US, and the illegal American tariffs on softwood lumber have been called "illegal" a ton of times in the last ten years . . . the US is only doing what is in its best interests, but it is the worst economic bully on this planet.

It isn't just the EU though. Canada is also imposing sanctions on the US, and the illegal American tariffs on softwood lumber have been called "illegal" a ton of times in the last ten years . . . the US is only doing what is in its best interests, but it is the worst economic bully on this planet.

Everyone should just drop all subsidies. It would save the government money, make Europe more attractive to foreign investment, save the US from sanctions, and make "free-trade" a true reality. However, because subsidies are a BS political tactic, and the lobbies for industries bribe the hell out of US Congressmen, they will never be removed.

My continent's penis IS bigger. Italy is bigger than Florida.

Yes but at least Florida looks like a penis. Italy should really see a urologist about it's condition.

In all the European whining about US trade barriers let's not forget that the EU has some unjustifiable trade barriers of their own.

www.ustr.gov/assets/Document_Library/Reports_Publications/2004/2004_National_Trade_Estimate/2004_NTE_Report/asset_upload_file778_4766.pdf

Oh, and what about the governement subsidies to EU products, like Airbus aircraft?

And what about US subsidies to Boeing? I think they should all be scrapped, but I think the point is that when the WTO, which is essentially a big forum for all the countries in the world to regulate trade between themselves, decides that something is an unfair barrier to trade, then the country imposing that barrier has to admit it's in the wrong and back down, or face sanctions. There is nothing at all unreasonable about that. It works both ways.

And while I agree that some of the measures in the document that you put up are overly buraeucratic and do no good at all, unless they have been ruled against by the WTO I don't think that the US could use them as an excuse to keep its own illegal barriers up.

All tarriffs should be abolisehd.

-Snip-

Yay! You understand perfectly. About 4 people that I've seen posting on this entire thread understand that this is not some stupid attempt to hurt the US, but rather a reasoned response to continuing US violation of trade agreements.

There are subsidies that the WTO allows, and their are subsidies that it doesn't allow; Boeing and Airbus STILL complain about each other's massive government handouts. Both have been told to cut back on these, neither has done a very good job about it.

But this anti-dumping law is being flagratly misused by the US government and its benificiaries. It HURTS the US because it helps ensure bad business practices will continue to be used by our corperations. It would only "soften the blow" of dumped goods IF it were used under highly regulated conditions. Its not, and last I checked, its not written in a way that would make it possible without scrapping the entire law and rewriting it.

I remember that this thing got passed as I was studying a case about S. Korean dumping steel onto the US market, several other cases of dumping occured after that. It was and continues to be a problem, but this law wasn't written well and its being poorly used. Right now it only feeds corruption.

Ah, a debate without massive flaming...

Hang on? If I remember correctly from my economics the US is dependent on the EU far more so than the EU is dependent on the US. In addition to this, you have three of the world's greatest economies (UK, Germany, France) concentrated in one area and working to the same goal? The EU can easily sustain itself as an economic entity.
I have no doubt about that but America can hit you hard too, you can kiss the 'Help Me America card' goodbye or atleast have a very hard time in the future to get on their good side again if you go ahead with it .
I don't really care, my nation has the good sence of not joining the EU. The sanctions will not effect us.

As long as things don't flare up, I think a little competition would be good for the Global Economy. Lately, most products...suck. Now that both groups will be trying to increase their economy s'more, both will create new jobs(BIG Plus in Germany, which has a HORRENDOUS Unemployment problem in the East, and in the U.S., which has a HORRENDOUS unemployment problem...everywhere!)

However, we'll both have to keep an eye on China and India. If this gets too serious, we'll both be screwed over by India and China.

Ouch.

I don't really care, my nation has the good sence of not joining the EU. The sanctions will not effect us.
Until the US decides that Iceland is dumping something. Then Iceland will be forced to do something. But who cares about what Iceland does?

If it were a member of a big economib bloc, maybe...

This will only hurt Europe if it escalates. The US economy is much stronger, and can take the hits a trade war brings without anywhere near the damage Europe would have.

Erm... have you taken a look at the latest economic indicators? The US economy is stronger, but not that stronger, plus you only need a small variance to get a big effect.

The EU also has the advantage of being much more heterogeneous, which allow some economic activities to adapt better to changing conditions.


They do it anyway, regardless of sanctions. It is simply more profitable to produce it in the third World. This is not good in the sense that the US is losing jobs, but better for the company. And, Europe is probably the most expensive place in the world to produce goods, so it would be the last choice anyway.

It's cheaper to produce in the so-called third world because of lower cost of labour, but other costs may increase and that would eat into your profits. Retaliatory tariffs may end up being more expensive than these other costs and make India an even better propositions.

Ein Deutscher']You US people will face hard times ahead. :rolleyes:

You have no grasp of economics! :rolleyes:

I have nothing against self preservation-its a must. But why does it always feel as if europeans are making such a strong effort to give the US a bloody nose? Thats the posture of their countries and the words of the people-why snyde and vindictive?

Probably because no european power has won a war against the US?

Not if you go ahead with this trade war. It will reinvigorate the US economy.

Its invigorated already. This'll help it more.

In fact, the EU economy is stronger than the US one. EU is #1 at the moment :)

Ein Deutscher']In fact, the EU economy is stronger than the US one. EU is #1 at the moment :)

Bizzzz

incorrect answer. Do not pass go do not collect $200! The Euro maybe stronger but the EU economy isn't. The US Economy is actually stronger dispite a weak dollar.

Uhh, you are german right. The german economy just barely nudges past the economy of California. It is not growing as fast either. The EU in general is stagnating while the us is growing. If you stopped doing business over here you all would go broke pretty quick. The usa is the only consumer base large enough and diverse enough to sustain itslef. We could just up the trade with asia and south america.

If you'd actually "followed" this, then you'd know that it's in responce to US tarrifs on European goods like steel. It's not all about everyone ganging up on the US, you know.

Has nothing to do with the fact which I am pointing out here is that the overall situation here is not good.


Yes... which is why the EU is doing this. Diplomacy with the US has not worked, and so the EU is taking action. They aren't just imposing tarrifs because they have nothing better to do and it's raining outside.

Yeah. Hurt American workers, to punish them for the actions of the government. That's a little like throwing rocks at Nike employees because Nike has sweat shops.

Believe it or not your tarrifs are harming our economy. These tarrifs are being imposed to try to counterbalance that, and force the US to back down. The nukes thing is really a non-issue, since nuking the EU would result in US (and indeed worldwide) nuclear destruction also.

The only thing they counterbalance is making Americans even more miserable economically, so that you feel better. Getting even, I guess. Will it force to the US to back down? Maybe... eventually. At the cost of both sides since everyone likes to say "well, diplomacy failed!!" at every challenge that comes up as the rallying cry to wage war, or 'trade war' in this case.

Bah, it's just the EU taking a cue from US bullshit and everyone giving out equal amounts to the ordinary people, as if that really is going to convince the non-ordinary people (leadership) to do something. Frankly, it reminds me a bit of Oceania and the other countries in 1984, which deliberately kept up the long, economically devastating inconclusive war for the sole purpose of keeping the Lows and Middles where they are, and the Highs in power.

As for the nukes comment, that was just my sarcastic throw-in to this little US versus EU pissing contest. I didn't want to feel left out.

I find this all so humoring the EU going after the US while China illegally dumps texitle goods accross the globe.. the EU needs to get its priorities straight.. its businesses are suffering more from Iellgal Chinese trade practices then from those of the United STates