NationStates Jolt Archive

Has anyone else noticed the Hypocrisy of your average Irish-American?

He carries with him this idea that he's good and moral and true. He frowned on the terrorist attacks on 9/11...supported the war in Iraq and against the Taliban. Yet he supports the IRA, and there's the hypocrisy. The IRA is FAR from a freedom fighting group, that's simply myth they've managed to generate in America. They're purely a terrorist group, use cowardly tactics and they're no better than the Taliban. Driven by religious or national extremism, they're going into the North and trying to take it back. Why?

Exactly,...why? Polls and referenda and elections have shown that people in Northern Ireland are happy being part of the UK. Vast majority of them want to stay, so why does the IRA continue to blow things up?

Recently, Sinn Feinn's leader was found to be linked, very closely, to the IRA. I hope this, in a long chain of events (IRA breaking Good Friday etc.) gives Irish-Americans and Americans as a whole a wake-up call. The IRA is in the wrong, not the British forces.

I still dont understand this one part of the Sinn Feinn problem. In Erie, SF isnt allowed in the government because of their links to the IRA, so why are they let in in NI?

Blowing up the Arndale centre was obviously an heroic tactic pulled off by those brave, valiant freedom fighters. Oh, I case you think I'm serious - :rolleyes:

Sadly some Irish-Americans and Americans seriously believe that it was a valiant act.

that is not the AVERAGE irish american
that is a few idiots who don't look beyond ira propaganda

You gotta love the way that Gerry Adams used to come on the TV almost immediately after every attack to say it wasn't them, but they definitely agreed with the actions...

[QUOTE=Botrosox]Recently, Sinn Feinn's leader was found to be linked, very closely, to the IRA.QUOTE]
Recently? We've always known he was linked - I thought he was in it :p

Troll alert. Troll alert.

Ladies and gentleman, we have a troll. It has been spotted creating multiple threads like this today.

Move along. There is nothing to see here. :D

I don't think I'm particularly hypocritical. I frowned on the war in Iraq, and I would prefer that the fight in Ireland stayed in the ballot box, but the British refuse to allow the seperatists a say in the govenment, so I believe some form of action is required. I also believe that until the British at least apologize for the atrocities commited since they occupied Ireland, the Irish have a perfectly legitimate grevience. When the IRA hits civilians, at least it says sorry. The British have killed thousands of Irish people and they've never apologized. They ran a rule of terror over Ireland for hundreds of years. They've tapered off since the Eighties, but that doesn't mean the individuals are any different. Give Sinn Fein a say in the process and they won't have to force their way in.

The IRA are Catholic freedom fighters fighting against Anglo-Puritan oppression. English Prods murdered and tortured the Irish for years, now the IRA is finally taking a stand. The British oppression forces will be driven from Ireland.

Exactly,...why? Polls and referenda and elections have shown that people in Northern Ireland are happy being part of the UK. Vast majority of them want to stay, so why does the IRA continue to blow things up?


There is nothing vast about the majority.


And the Manchester bomb was a good thing dammit. Trust me, I'm a Manc with no love for the IRA.

Sadly some Irish-Americans and Americans seriously believe that it was a valiant act.

You have proof, or are you speaking out of your arse?

The reason I ask is I doubt many Americans know about Manchester, let alone the Arndale Centre.

Troll alert. Troll alert.

Ladies and gentleman, we have a troll. It has been spotted creating multiple threads like this today.

Move along. There is nothing to see here. :D
hmm? who are you refering to? The orginal post although he makes a generalisation it is a valid statement.

Commando3']The IRA are Catholic freedom fighters fighting against Anglo-Puritan oppression. English Prods murdered and tortured the Irish for years, now the IRA is finally taking a stand. The British oppression forces will be driven from Ireland.

A) Britain is very secular, religion doesn't matter at all.
B) The Northern Irish want to stay in the Union.
C) They won't drive them out, because they can't sustain a proper fight. It's all cowardly terrorism

I still dont understand this one part of the Sinn Feinn problem. In Erie, SF isnt allowed in the government because of their links to the IRA, so why are they let in in NI?
Sinn Fein are let in the government if the people vote them in, but they have the permanent image problem of the terrorist IRA.

Tranditional American support for the IRA (which, thankfully has declined in recent years) has left us with a negative view of wealthy Irish-Americans. This is unfortunate since most wealthy Irish-Americans never supported the IRA.

Commando3']The IRA are Catholic freedom fighters fighting against Anglo-Puritan oppression. English Prods murdered and tortured the Irish for years, now the IRA is finally taking a stand. The British oppression forces will be driven from Ireland.
We aren't in Ireland. We're in Northern Ireland. And besides, majority of NIers want to stay part of the UK.

Commando3']The IRA are Catholic freedom fighters fighting against Anglo-Puritan oppression. English Prods murdered and tortured the Irish for years, now the IRA is finally taking a stand. The British oppression forces will be driven from Ireland.

Botrosox, about what I said in the previous post. I take it back.


*sigh*

When two trolls collide.

Commando, shut up. And read a bit about the situation before speaking shit.

Commando3']The IRA are Catholic freedom fighters fighting against Anglo-Puritan oppression. English Prods murdered and tortured the Irish for years, now the IRA is finally taking a stand. The British oppression forces will be driven from Ireland.
Yay! Commando is back!

I don't think I'm particularly hypocritical. I frowned on the war in Iraq, and I would prefer that the fight in Ireland stayed in the ballot box, but the British refuse to allow the seperatists a say in the govenment, so I believe some form of action is required. I also believe that until the British at least apologize for the atrocities commited since they occupied Ireland, the Irish have a perfectly legitimate grevience. When the IRA hits civilians, at least it says sorry. The British have killed thousands of Irish people and they've never apologized. They ran a rule of terror over Ireland for hundreds of years. They've tapered off since the Eighties, but that doesn't mean the individuals are any different. Give Sinn Fein a say in the process and they won't have to force their way in.

Ballot Box? Northern Ireland Assembly anyone? Yes, the Unionists absolutely THRASHED the seperatists. That's democracy for you, I mean, I know it's not exactly what you're after but the majority want to stay Unionised

We aren't in Ireland. We're in Northern Ireland. And besides, majority of NIers want to stay part of the UK.

The limey oppressors persecute Catholics in N. Ireland and let neo-puritan orange banner marchers parade through Catholic neighborhoods. Thats like a KKK march going through a black neighborhood.

Has anyone else noticed the Hypocrisy of your average Irish-American?

He carries with him this idea that he's good and moral and true. He frowned on the terrorist attacks on 9/11...supported the war in Iraq and against the Taliban. Yet he supports the IRA, and there's the hypocrisy. The IRA is FAR from a freedom fighting group, that's simply myth they've managed to generate in America. They're purely a terrorist group, use cowardly tactics and they're no better than the Taliban. Driven by religious or national extremism, they're going into the North and trying to take it back. Why?

Exactly,...why? Polls and referenda and elections have shown that people in Northern Ireland are happy being part of the UK. Vast majority of them want to stay, so why does the IRA continue to blow things up?

Recently, Sinn Feinn's leader was found to be linked, very closely, to the IRA. I hope this, in a long chain of events (IRA breaking Good Friday etc.) gives Irish-Americans and Americans as a whole a wake-up call. The IRA is in the wrong, not the British forces.
Ummmm.... No? I don't think I've seen a single Irish American who actively supports the IRA. I'm sure there are people up in Boston who donate money to "orphanages" in Ulster, but they are the vast minority. I can't say I've even heard an Irish American who expresses support for what the IRA does, blowing people up and robbing banks is frowened on. Furthermore you show a very simplistic understanding of an incredibly complex situation. You act as if the IRA is a single organization, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Furthermore you completly ignore the loyalist paramilitary groups who are just as bad and the unionist. Both sides are criminals, and to ignore them is pretty ignorant. You are right in saying they are not freedom fighters, but you completely ignore that at one point that was very much the case.

Your citing of polls showing support for remaining part of England shows even more ignorance of the situation. Thats because of the large numbers of loyalists in Northern Ireland, the whole history there is just another comlicated mess. Now granted, being part of England isn't some big horrible thing. There are definite economic benefits for both Northern Ireland and the Republic. Simply saying that the Brits are in the right as far as Northern Ireland goes, however, is ignoring a shit ton of history. I'm hardly claiming the IRA is "right", but saying the British forces is Nothern Ireland are is laughable.

Commando3']The limey oppressors persecute Catholics in N. Ireland and let neo-puritan orange banner marchers parade through Catholic neighborhoods. Thats like a KKK march going through a black neighborhood.
I would say 'freedom of Speech' but I always thought that was too far. Besides the Army stopped the major parade last year.

Commando3']The IRA are Catholic freedom fighters fighting against Anglo-Puritan oppression. English Prods murdered and tortured the Irish for years, now the IRA is finally taking a stand. The British oppression forces will be driven from Ireland.
Well I'm Irish know history and the IRA aren't needed now.

It doesn't matter how they got there the majority of NI want to be in the UK.

Hmmm what am i to do?

I am part irish and british, athough my family has lived in canada for 200 years.


hmmmm, well i will hit on the Irish as they are clearly drunks and eat too much clover.

Commando3']The limey oppressors persecute Catholics in N. Ireland and let neo-puritan orange banner marchers parade through Catholic neighborhoods. Thats like a KKK march going through a black neighborhood.
:rolleyes:

Get over yourself, its not 1916. Things are hardly that bad.

BTW this whole thing has about as much to do with religion as the American Civil War. IE not much. The religious differences anymore are just an artificial divide. The loyalists tend to be Protestant and the unionists Catholic, but that basically coicidental anymore.

Has anyone else noticed the Hypocrisy of your average Irish-American?

He carries with him this idea that he's good and moral and true. He frowned on the terrorist attacks on 9/11...supported the war in Iraq and against the Taliban. Yet he supports the IRA, and there's the hypocrisy. The IRA is FAR from a freedom fighting group, that's simply myth they've managed to generate in America. They're purely a terrorist group, use cowardly tactics and they're no better than the Taliban. Driven by religious or national extremism, they're going into the North and trying to take it back. Why?

Exactly,...why? Polls and referenda and elections have shown that people in Northern Ireland are happy being part of the UK. Vast majority of them want to stay, so why does the IRA continue to blow things up?

Recently, Sinn Feinn's leader was found to be linked, very closely, to the IRA. I hope this, in a long chain of events (IRA breaking Good Friday etc.) gives Irish-Americans and Americans as a whole a wake-up call. The IRA is in the wrong, not the British forces.

As an Irish-American who has been to Ireland and Northern Ireland... and wouldn't mind seein' N.I. given back to ireland peacefully...

Duh the IRA is a terrorist group, i've never met anyone who has thought otherwise. They are a hate mongering group of ass-whipes.

Sinn Feinn is just a part of the terrorist group that feigns (get it Feinn-feign) to be a political party.

and screw you for portraing my people as ignorant fucktards.

hmm? who are you refering to? The orginal post although he makes a generalisation it is a valid statement.

You may agree with that statement. Fine.

But look around General. Notice the Botrosox threads. Notice that some are contradictory. All are provocative and trollish.

But nevermind ...

The limey oppressors persecute Catholics in N. Ireland and let neo-puritan orange banner marchers parade through Catholic neighborhoods. Thats like a KKK march going through a black neighborhood.

... 'cuz now we have hot troll-on-troll action!

There is nothing vast about the majority.


And the Manchester bomb was a good thing dammit. Trust me, I'm a Manc with no love for the IRA.



You have proof, or are you speaking out of your arse?

The reason I ask is I doubt many Americans know about Manchester, let alone the Arndale Centre.

It's safe to say most Americans have heard of Manchester, England. However, most Americans have probably not heard about the bombing.

You may agree with that statement. Fine.

But look around General. Notice the Botrosox threads. Notice that some are contradictory. All are provocative and trollish.

But nevermind ...

[QUOTE=[NS]Commando3]The limey oppressors persecute Catholics in N. Ireland and let neo-puritan orange banner marchers parade through Catholic neighborhoods. Thats like a KKK march going through a black neighborhood.[/QUOTE.]

... 'cuz now we have hot troll-on-troll action!
ahh didn't know he had a record. Thanks for informing me, since this is going up in flames I might as well leave now.

It's safe to say most Americans have heard of Manchester, England. However, most Americans have probably not heard about the bombing.

REally? That is quite surprising.

It's safe to say most Americans have heard of Manchester, England. However, most Americans have probably not heard about the bombing.

while i'm up on this subject i have not heard of this specific bombing.-Mr. O'Brien of Chicago, Illinios, U.S.A.

Really, the Loyalists are just as big bastards as the IRA:

Clicky for good example (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1521512.stm)

Speaking of NI, I haven't seen and Nadkor posts recently.

Britain is very secular, religion doesn't matter at all. But it does matter to its citizens, like members of the Orange Order, and members of the government, like MP Ian Paisley.
The Northern Irish want to stay in the Union. I believe by "Northern Irish" you mean "Orangemen", no?
They won't drive them out, because they can't sustain a proper fight. It's all cowardly terrorism Cowardly terrorism... I can see where the "terrorism" part is coming from, guerilla tactics are generalized as that these days, but cowardly? Putting your life on the line for a cause you're devoted to is harldy cowardly, no, no, I'd have to classify "cowardly" as soldiers firing into a crowd of protesters.

I can't say I've heard of that bombing either.

Ian Paisly is a horrible person and an oppressor to the Irish people.

There's something deeply wrong with those posting to say that the Irish will drive out the British oppressors and that the British have never apologised for the atrocities carried out.

The British PM recently apologised over miscarriages of justice, and most civilians are outraged (well, perhaps outrage is a stretch, as nobody seems to get really outraged about anything these days), but more to the point, other British forces were sent into Northern Ireland initially to protect Catholics and nationalists from Protestant extremism! It only went wrong when the process of searching for arms was poorly handled and understandably ended up pissing people off, but there was clearly no need for anyone to blow that up into a terror campaign, given that the motives were proper and that people now recognise that mistakes were made in the enactment. If extremists looking for their own disproportionate slice of power hadn't inflamed the situation then, well, things would be a good deal different, anyway.

It makes me think of a song I can't properly remember, which was presented to me as a sepratist ballad, and described a British solider throwing himself on a bomb and wishing, in the moments before he's ripped apart, that he'd never been sent to Ireland. "See! Even the soldiers don't want to be there!" Shocking, when some of the people they were sent to protect decided to take advantage by blowing every body up.

That said, I'm no British patriot (and was Christened Catholic thanks to maternal... Irishness), and wouldn't bother to say any of this if I felt it was a mute point because of overwhelming democratic support for separation. But since that's not the case...


(Erm, and incase you can't tell, I don't know any Irish Americans like that, personally, so have chosen to dance around the issue and criticise other posters instead, heh :) )

They bombed a shopping centre after signing a truce. I can't remember if it killed anyone, but it injured hundreds and gutted the building (this last one wasn't too bad - the Arndale centre smelt of wee).

REally? That is quite surprising.

Well, England is the mother country (for the language anyway....the largest white ethnic group in the US is German, and English is 2nd). It shouldn't be surprising that rather large cities are somewhat known to Americans.

Commando3']Ian Paisly is a horrible person and an oppressor to the Irish people.
Dare I bite?

How exactly does he oppress the Irish people?

I'm partly Irish, and I don't feel oppressed in any way by him. Neither do any of my Irish relatives. Or any Irish people I know.

Is his oppression very subtle?

Please please please, expand and expalin how he oppresses anyone.

And yes, Loyalist terrorists can be just as bad as Republican terrorists (hence the army's deployment in the first place), or as terrorists in army uniform when they step over the line, if it were up to me, all terrorist groups and the army would be disbanded, but for now that's only the case in my fictional Nation State :)

They bombed a shopping centre after signing a truce. I can't remember if it killed anyone, but it injured hundreds and gutted the building (this last one wasn't too bad - the Arndale centre smelt of wee).

That was the RIRA, a bunch of violent thugs. The PIRA would not do such a thing.

Commando3']Ian Paisly is a horrible person and an oppressor to the Irish people.
Funny that you say that. The IRA actually does not allow anyone to attack him. He is so good at saying incredibly offensive, crazy shit that he has made their case look much more reasonable. But yeah, he's fucking insane.

They bombed a shopping centre after signing a truce. I can't remember if it killed anyone, but it injured hundreds and gutted the building (this last one wasn't too bad - the Arndale centre smelt of wee).

It didn't kill anyone, and to quote my dad "It's a pity they didn't blow it up properly." Also Manchester has really come on since then. Which is why I asserted the bombing was a good thing at the beginning of the thread.

(Erm, and incase you can't tell, I don't know any Irish Americans like that, personally, so have chosen to dance around the issue and criticise other posters instead, heh :) )

Niiiiice. =)

Commando3']That was the RIRA, a bunch of violent thugs. The PIRA would not do such a thing.
They both want liberation. And the PIRA has done lots of other stuff, although at least they had the decency to give us a chance with phone warnings.

Commando3']That was the RIRA, a bunch of violent thugs. The PIRA would not do such a thing.
I hear they are quite the poets.

I would say 'freedom of Speech' but I always thought that was too far. Besides the Army stopped the major parade last year.
Well, I heard that in America there was once a neo-Nazi march through a Jewish neighbourhood.

Really, the Loyalists are just as big bastards as the IRA:

Clicky for good example (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1521512.stm)
Agreed. I can't imagine how people, especially self-styled "Christians" can be so hateful.

But just because we are rightly going after the IRA, doesn't mean we think Loyalist crimes are "OK".

Commando3']Ian Paisly is a horrible person and an oppressor to the Irish people.
He's not an oppressor - he doesn't have that kind of power - but I agree there's not doubt that he's an absolute bastard.

Agreed. I can't imagine how people, especially self-styled "Christians" can be so hateful.

But just because we are rightly going after the IRA, doesn't mean we think Loyalist crimes are "OK".
Indeed. I hate the IRA (is it republicans? I can never remember) but I also hate lunatic loyalists. But who am I to argue? One of my ex-friends used to laugh at the Oxfam adverts that showed Somali kids starving to death.

Actually, I would be more interested in knowing how many Muslim Americans support the PLO...

Maybe that is just because I am not Irish, though.

Yes, you've got to love the waste-of time, pointless, stuck-in-the-past irrelevance that is the Northern Ireland situation. Ok, it makes more geographical sense for NI to be part of Eire, but either way they get to be part of modern representative democracy in which they all get to have a vote, get similar well-fare provisions and are a part of the EU. Only slight problem is Eire uses the Euro and the UK uses the pound. So...beyond the geographical integrity of the island known as Ireland, there really is absolutely no point whatsoever to the idiocy that has somehow continued through to the 21st Century.

Oh yes, 1690 and a BRITISH civil war which ended in the protest's happened to win. Does the UK care? No. (Unless you're from Glasgow like me, in which case it gets brought up everytime Rangers (Unionist) and Celtic (Originally the Irish Immigrant's team) play. But really...they're all going to stab each other out of existence, so who cares) Anyway...relevance to Ireland? Not much. In the 1920s the provinces of Eire voted to become independant, the provinces of NI did not. Thus we arrived at the hideous status quo that we now have. I personally would go for shared sovereignty over NI and hope that that quelled the virtiolic flow of pointlessness which continues to bore the rest of us, and yet simultaneously astound us with its ignorant, small-minded stupidity.

Has anyone else noticed the Hypocrisy of your average Irish-American?

He carries with him this idea that he's good and moral and true. He frowned on the terrorist attacks on 9/11...supported the war in Iraq and against the Taliban. Yet he supports the IRA, and there's the hypocrisy. The IRA is FAR from a freedom fighting group, that's simply myth they've managed to generate in America. They're purely a terrorist group, use cowardly tactics and they're no better than the Taliban. Driven by religious or national extremism, they're going into the North and trying to take it back. Why?
.

ok, you wanna know why the IRA has survived?
I'm an irish-american Cathloic, 2nd generation US and I'll tell you why:
Because Arrogant assholes like you have the nerve to assume everyone who even hints at celtic herratage sends money and weapons to the IRA. I have pleanty of Irish-American Cathloic friends, all of whom condemn the IRA. And, have you ever heard of the Ulster Defence Force? Its made up of Jackasses like yourself who naturally assume all cathloics are IRA members. I still cannot believe you have the nerve to assume all Irish-Americans support the IRA. You are the reason bigotry and racism still survive, you assume the attributes of a few are that of the whole. So, you wanna solve the problem, deal with your own hatred and bigotry asshole, mabey once you solve your problems, you wont assume all Irish cathloics are gun toting IRA members, and the conflic will be that much closer to ending.

i think its right that the IRA should have such support, especially after the Enniskillen bombing of a war memorial, the killing of my uncle and the shooting of one of my mums best friends






fuck them all. i hope every single person who supports the IRA burns in hell


edit: and Paisley isnt that bad...ok, hes bigoted, but his basic policy is not talking to Sinn Fein, and not allowing NI to become more integrated with the Republic

which to many unionists is all fine and dandy