NationStates Jolt Archive

Link (http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=AWQK0APQMGGJMCRBAEOCFEY?type=topNews&storyID=8053602)
Will he die soon aswell and follow Terri Schiavo? Time will tell...


VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope John Paul is suffering from a very high fever caused by a urinary infection, the Vatican said in a statement on Thursday.

It said the Pope was receiving "appropriate antibiotic therapy."

The 84-year-old Pope has been convalescing from throat surgery for more than a month now and aides said earlier on Thursday he was disappointed by the slow pace of his recovery.

He underwent the tracheotomy on Feb. 24 in Rome's Gemelli Hospital, where he spent a total of 28 days in two stints in February and March.

Doctors on Wednesday inserted a feeding tube through the Pope's nose and into his stomach to try to boost his strength and help his recovery. He has had a breathing tube in his throat since the Feb. 24 operation.

Vatican officials interviewed by Reuters earlier on Thursday said they were increasingly pessimistic about the Pope making a full recovery from his ailments.

"Hardly anyone thinks the situation will improve but everyone is hoping for a miracle," said one official.

A senior cardinal said the Pope was nearing the end of his life.

Imo, he has lived long enough and it's time for a new pope. I wonder why they're being elected for life anyway. That seems to be a totally silly policy.

Will he die soon?
Probably.
Does it matter?
Not at all.

Imo, he has lived long enough and it's time for a new pope. I wonder why they're being elected for life anyway. That seems to be a totally silly policy.

Actually, this pope is rather unique, as he has one of the longest regins in history. Back when the office was in its fullest power, many popes didn't live that long (killed in battle,assassination,plague,etc.) so the life term wasn't a problem and saved a lot of work. Today, these threats are gone and the office should no longer be lifelong.

Now there's a feeding tube I wouldn't mind seeing pulled.

rumor has it he's been read the last rite.

"lived long enough"?? Thats a terrible thing to say...

*imagines Ein Deutscher waking up one day saying, I've lived long enough*

I wonder why they're being elected for life anyway.
Tradition.

it seems cruel to pray for the miracle of keeping a sick old man alive longer than god had intended.

Will he die soon?
Probably.
Does it matter?
Not at all.
Thats another terrible thing to say, :(
Of course it matters he's a human being!

Now there's a feeding tube I wouldn't mind seeing pulled.
You have one sick sence of humor.

But what will I do without spiritual guidance?

Well, I feel bad for anyone who is forced to suffer like this. The Vatican should do whatever necessary to help him and if he wants to die, so be it.

But what will I do without spiritual guidance?
There will be a new pope. Don't worry. The influential cardinals in Rome would not want to get rid of such a nice influential position over a billion sheep :p

Well, I feel bad for anyone who is forced to suffer like this. The Vatican should do whatever necessary to help him and if he wants to die, so be it.
he doesn't want to die though.

I can not help but wonder why an man who believes he will live in a paradise in the sky forever after he dies is trying so hard to stay alive? Seems to me that he would want to die. That is IF he truly believes what he preaches.

he doesn't want to die though.

Well, than respect his wishes. In the end, it's up to him. I've got to respect him for holding out against so much physical suffering. He is truly devoted to what he believes and deserves credit for it.

Thats another terrible thing to say, :(
Of course it matters he's a human being!

I guess you must be crying your eyes out over the people dying of AIDS in Africa, where the catholic church has been spreading its anti-condom propaganda.

They're dying humans too, you know.

You have one sick sence of humor.

I meant it.

If he does die then he goes with my respect even though I'm Muslim.

F*ck anyone who hates the pope. He is a nice person and even forgave the person who shot him. Just because some people are pathetic and atheists doesnt mean all are

I meant it.

Liberal compassion pfffft

I guess you must be crying your eyes out over the people dying of AIDS in Africa, where the catholic church has been spreading its anti-condom propaganda.

I could never understand this. Sometime, the Church will have to look at the situation and decide: "which is the lesser of two evils?". After all, innocent people dying is a whole lot worse than sex without procreation, in my opinion.

I'm an atheist by choice, but even I cannot fail to see the significance of the papal health. If he dies, despite all the slander that the Catholic Church suffers, and justly so in some cases, he will be a great loss to the world as a whole, no matter what your religious beliefs.

That said, he is going to die, of that there can be no doubt. As for does it matter? Yes, it just depends on your view of the world

I guess you must be crying your eyes out over the people dying of AIDS in Africa, where the catholic church has been spreading its anti-condom propaganda.

They're dying humans too, you know.



I meant it.

Ha ha ha. You truely are ignorant, people can not die from aids

F*ck anyone who hates the pope. He is a nice person and even forgave the person who shot him. Just because some people are pathetic and atheists doesnt mean all are

I agree. I'm an agnostic, but still respect the pope because he is such a good person. He's never hurt anyone, so emnity is unfounded.

Ha ha ha. You truely are ignorant, people can not die from aids
But they can from the weak immune system that is caused by AIDS, which is just about the same :p

Ha ha ha. You truely are ignorant, people can not die from aids

People cannot die from AIDS? It is you who are ignorant my friend. Yes, AIDS is brought about from the HIV virus, but that does not mean it doesn't kill

I'm an atheist by choice, but even I cannot fail to see the significance of the papal health. If he dies, despite all the slander that the Catholic Church suffers, and justly so in some cases, he will be a great loss to the world as a whole, no matter what your religious beliefs.

That said, he is going to die, of that there can be no doubt. As for does it matter? Yes, it just depends on your view of the world
Good to hear. Many atheists that I know are ignorant and cruel people. When a religious man (or woman) of peace passes away they'll reply by saying, "Good riddance... we need less religious people."

I hate those people! It doesn't matter if they were nice people and spread good around the world, all that matters is getting rid of organized religion ITO...

People cannot die from AIDS? It is you who are ignorant my friend. Yes, AIDS is brought about from the HIV virus, but that does not mean it doesn't kill

It doesn't kill directly, but the diseases it triggers as a result of the immune system do kill, so I guess you can say it does kill. Perhaps they were implying that it doesn't kill directly, not sure.

Ha ha ha. You truely are ignorant, people can not die from aids

Directly, no. Indirectly, indeed they can. If only it didn't effectively destroy the immune system... :)

There will be a new pope. Don't worry. The influential cardinals in Rome would not want to get rid of such a nice influential position over a billion sheep

If that weren't true, the world would be a much happier place. I must say, though, I have no problem with the Pope whatsoever, despite my earlier sarcasm. Best of luck to him, be there an afterlife or not.

Good to hear. Many atheists that I know are ignorant and cruel people. When a religious man (or woman) of peace passes away they'll reply by saying, "Good riddance... we need less religious people."

I hate those people! It doesn't matter if they were nice people and spread good around the world, all that matters is getting rid of organized religion ITO...

I agree. Also, I cannot stand people who say athiest are hypocrites. What we practise is a belief that there is no ultimate being, we just are. I for one think it's good to have religious diversity in the world. If we were all the same, it would be very boring.

Jean Paul II is prehaps on of my most respected people, simply because he has done what he sees is right. True, he has met stiff opposition form all quaters, but at least he continues to fight for peace and unity in the world.

I can not help but wonder why an man who believes he will live in a paradise in the sky forever after he dies is trying so hard to stay alive? Seems to me that he would want to die. That is IF he truly believes what he preaches.
He wants to give others hope basicly.


I guess you must be crying your eyes out over the people dying of AIDS in Africa, where the catholic church has been spreading its anti-condom propaganda.

They're dying humans too, you know.

yes I think thats terrible something should be done to help them, but they also say don't have sex outside of marriage if everyone is falling for their "propaganda" how come they most important part they are trying to get across is ignored.

I meant it.
In that case you are a sick person

It doesn't kill directly, but the diseases it triggers as a result of the immune system do kill, so I guess you can say it does kill. Perhaps they were implying that it doesn't kill directly, not sure.

I'm well aware of what he was implying, but I did say it was caused by HIV, therfore I backed up and stated my arguement. That is far. I do know something of this disease, it's kinda hard to ignore

Good to hear. Many atheists that I know are ignorant and cruel people. When a religious man (or woman) of peace passes away they'll reply by saying, "Good riddance... we need less religious people."


You're not alone. There are people on the agnostic/atheist side that feel the same way, that there is a difference between dispute over beliefs and simple hatred of religion. People who hate religion fanatically are the same as the fundamentalists and religious fanatics, just a different belief.

I can not help but wonder why an man who believes he will live in a paradise in the sky forever after he dies is trying so hard to stay alive? Seems to me that he would want to die. That is IF he truly believes what he preaches.

i think he is fighting to stay alive because he is the POPE and still has god's work to do.

I'm well aware of what he was implying, but I did say it was caused by HIV, therfore I backed up and stated my arguement. That is far. I do know something of this disease, it's kinda hard to ignore

And you are totally correct.

Ha ha ha. You truely are ignorant, people can not die from aids

Yes they can. You die because of not having a functioning immune system. You do die of AIDS, by means of different infections or tumors or whatever.

Also, does HIV encephalopathy/AIDS Dementia Complex sound a bell?

And you are totally correct.
Thank you

Thats another terrible thing to say, :(
Of course it matters he's a human being!

He's a selfish old man.
I'm fed up with old people dying and then a big fuss being made over it.
Nobody cares if a young caring good person dies, but if it's an old famous person their death is turned into a big thing.
When I look in the local paper and see the obituries full of the elderly it drives me mad.
If an old person dies people should think "oh that's bad for them, but they had a good amount of time"

think he is fighting to stay alive because he is the POPE and still has god's work to do.

I don't think that the pope does good to get in to heaven, and so I don't think he wants to die to get there. He is concerned with doing good on this Earth, since this is where it matters.

Yes they can. You die because of not having a functioning immune system. You do die of AIDS, by means of different infections or tumors or whatever.

Also, does HIV encephalopathy/AIDS Dementia Complex sound a bell?
AIDS doesn't kill, complications from it do. Of course, that's like saying no one ever died from falling, they just died from the sudden stop.

He's a selfish old man.
I'm fed up with old people dying and then a big fuss being made over it.
Nobody cares if a young caring good person dies, but if it's an old famous person their death is turned into a big thing.
When I look in the local paper and see the obituries full of the elderly it drives me mad.
If an old person dies people should think "oh that's bad for them, but they had a good amount of time"
Selfish? He's the only one NOT making a big thing of it. You're talked about it more than he has.

He's a selfish old man.


I have never heard something that harsh. He is the leader of the largest religious sect in the world. He does matter, whether or not you believe as he believes

I meant it.
Obviously you don't value human life.

Liberal compassion pfffft

I have no compassion for people who have deaths on their conscience, and I have no compassion for people who head discriminatory and oppressive organisations.

He's a selfish old man.
I do not agree

I'm fed up with old people dying and then a big fuss being made over it.
Nobody cares if a young caring good person dies, but if it's an old famous person their death is turned into a big thing.
When I look in the local paper and see the obituries full of the elderly it drives me mad.
If an old person dies people should think "oh that's bad for them, but they had a good amount of time"
Well they do, what did you think they mean when they say "he/she had a long and fruitful life". ;)

I've been known to make light of the papacy on many occasions, but I do admire his Holiness on some levels. A lot of people are quick to blame him for the shortcomings of an entire religion's followers and administrators, when in fact he seems to embody the ideals of Catholicism far better than anyone I've ever met. I often wonder if he was given the position for having these qualities, or if the mantle of the position inspired him to be a great man.

Shame on anyone who somehow finds glee in his passing, aside from the possibility of a better life beyond this one which he is quite entitled to.

Even if you do not share his faith, you cannot help but admire how much faith he has.

I have no compassion for people who have deaths on their conscience, and I have no compassion for people who head discriminatory and oppressive organisations.

Could you give an example of these organisations?

I have no compassion for people who have deaths on their conscience, and I have no compassion for people who head discriminatory and oppressive organisations.
So you only have compassion when it suits you? Sounds like a bad case of liberalis hypocriticus.

AIDS doesn't kill, complications from it do. Of course, that's like saying no one ever died from falling, they just died from the sudden stop.

Look into AIDS Dementia Complex (ADC). It's an encephalopathy caused directly by the HIV virus.

I have never heard something that harsh. He is the leader of the largest religious sect in the world. He does matter, whether or not you believe as he believes
I believe the largest religious sect is the Sunni sect...

What about when he was urging people to pray for him and no one else, isn't that selfish?

Could you give an example of these organisations?

In this case, the catholic church.

What about when he was urging people to pray for him and no one else, isn't that selfish?
I think it was the cardinals who urged people to pray for him, since he can't talk at the moment.

I have never heard something that harsh. He is the leader of the largest religious sect in the world. He does matter, whether or not you believe as he believes
He is a leader of a group of madmen and liars.

If more people suffered and had a ****ed up mind such as the one I've got then they would realise that their is no chance of their being any truth to religion.

I believe the largest religious sect is the Sunni sect...

OK, so I'm wrong, sue me!

What about when he was urging people to pray for him and no one else, isn't that selfish?

Not really. When you lok at it, ppl in hospital do that. They ask the resident preist to rpray for them? And do you see that as selfish?

He was a good man who prayed for world peace and reached out to all races and religions. Even more special: He's a religious leader that admitted that evolution is a fact.

Despite his handling of the sexual abuses, he has set a high humanitarian mark that all popes after him are going to have to strive to reach.

He was given his Last Rites, has a UT infection and will not likely last the day (or the hour).

Look into AIDS Dementia Complex (ADC). It's an encephalopathy caused directly by the HIV virus.
As I understand it, there haven't been reported cases of people dying from that, merely having it.

He is a leader of a group of madmen and liars.

If more people suffered and had a ****ed up mind such as the one I've got then they would realise that their is no chance of their being any truth to religion.

You are the sort of person I hate. You hate religion because it has made mistakes. humans always make mistakes, that's how we learn!

I believe the largest religious sect is the Sunni sect...

Yes, there are approximately 1.12 to 1.26 billion people, as compared to 1.086 billion Catholics.

He was a good man who prayed for world peace and reached out to all races and religions. Even more special: He's a religious leader that admitted that evolution is a fact.

Despite his handling of the sexual abuses, he has set a high humanitarian mark that all popes after him are going to have to strive to reach.

He was given his Last Rites, has a UT infection and will not likely last the day (or the hour).
He'sa been given the Last Rites? I hasn't heard that

So you only have compassion when it suits you? Sounds like a bad case of liberalis hypocriticus.

It would be, had I ever been a champion of unconditional compassion. I have not been, and I am not.

So, do you have something that is actually correct to add?

OK, so I'm wrong, sue me!
Hehe, I was just pointing out a fact. :p

Yes, there are approximately 1.12 to 1.26 billion people, as compared to 1.086 billion Catholics.
Thanks for informing me

I do see that as selfish.
If I were in that position and the sort of person that believes in the whole praying thing I would ask the priest to pray for everyone.

He is a leader of a group of madmen and liars.

If more people suffered and had a ****ed up mind such as the one I've got then they would realise that their is no chance of their being any truth to religion.
So am I a madman or a liar. :rolleyes:

Not everyone's the same as you even if they where in the same situation as you.

He is a leader of a group of madmen and liars.

If more people suffered and had a ****ed up mind such as the one I've got then they would realise that their is no chance of their being any truth to religion.
Actually, the chance exists, merely because that concept of there being truth to religion is not impossible.

As I understand it, there haven't been reported cases of people dying from that, merely having it.

http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=kb-04&doc=kb-04-01-03

"It is a source of great morbidity and, when severe, is associated with limited survival."

I do see that as selfish.
If I were in that position and the sort of person that believes in the whole praying thing I would ask the priest to pray for everyone.

Well, thats you. Personally, I think you are highly ignorant, but thats me

He'sa been given the Last Rites? I hasn't heard that

Yes it just came in fairly recently:

http://cnn.worldnews.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=CNN.com+-+Vatican+source%3A%A0Pope+given+last+rites+-+Mar+31%2C+2005&expire=-1&urlID=13743136&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2005%2FWORLD%2Feurope%2F03%2F31%2Fpope1%2Findex.html&partnerID=2006

AIDS doesn't kill, complications from it do. Of course, that's like saying no one ever died from falling, they just died from the sudden stop.

Well, then...I guess diseases and injury don't kill. Technically, all deaths occur when the heart stops so everyone who has ever died, died when their heart stopped.

Heart failure...the universal cause of death. :D

Well, then...I guess diseases and injury don't kill. Technically, all deaths occur when the heart stops so everyone who has ever died, died when their heart stopped.

Heart failure...the universal cause of death. :D

That's a good theory

You are the sort of person I hate. You hate religion because it has made mistakes. humans always make mistakes, that's how we learn!
I hate everything.
My reason for that are the voices and the hallucinations, I am sat here typing this and every so often if I look to my right I can see chopped off heads floating in the air.
Having to live like that make me hate everything.

I do see that as selfish.
If I were in that position and the sort of person that believes in the whole praying thing I would ask the priest to pray for everyone.
You're entitled to your opinion.

I hate everything.
My reason for that are the voices and the hallucinations, I am sat here typing this and every so often if I look to my right I can see chopped off heads floating in the air.
Having to live like that make me hate everything.

See someone. Go now

I hate everything.
My reason for that are the voices and the hallucinations, I am sat here typing this and every so often if I look to my right I can see chopped off heads floating in the air.
Having to live like that make me hate everything.
Are you being sarcastic?

http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=kb-04&doc=kb-04-01-03

"It is a source of great morbidity and, when severe, is associated with limited survival."
"CNS complications"
Which is what I said originally ;)

Well, then...I guess diseases and injury don't kill. Technically, all deaths occur when the heart stops so everyone who has ever died, died when their heart stopped.

Heart failure...the universal cause of death. :D
Actually, in my EMT class, we heard that there are only two causes of death, instaneous caused by decapitation or incineration and whatnot, and shock.

Actually, in my EMT class, we heard that there are only two causes of death, instaneous caused by decapitation or incineration and whatnot, and shock.

There are 4 causes: homicide, suicide, accidental, and natural

There are 4 causes: homicide, suicide, accidental, and natural
Those are types of death, not causes of it.

There are 4 causes: homicide, suicide, accidental, and natural
Seen all of those first-hand.

Seen all of those first-hand.

Part of the job?

"CNS complications"
Which is what I said originally ;)

A complication caused directly by the virus, and thus a direct cause of morbidity and mortality:

"The AIDS Dementia Complex (ADC) is one of the most common and clinically important CNS complications of late HIV-1 infection. It is a source of great morbidity and, when severe, is associated with limited survival. While its pathogenesis remains enigmatic in several important aspects, ADC is generally thought to be caused by HIV-1 itself, rather than to another opportunistic infection."

"An empirically derived, five-step ADC Staging System (Table 1)(6,7) is applied once the diagnosis of ADC is made. The designation is based on the degree of functional incapacity in cognitive and motor activities of work and daily living and ranges from stage 0.5, which describes patients in whom there are neurologic symptoms or signs without functional impairment (subclinical disease) and in whom mild impairment may possibly relate to another condition that cannot be clearly distinguished (equivocal ADC), to stages 4, which indicates severe/end-stage dysfunction."

A complication caused directly by the virus, and thus a direct cause of morbidity and mortality:

"The AIDS Dementia Complex (ADC) is one of the most common and clinically important CNS complications of late HIV-1 infection. It is a source of great morbidity and, when severe, is associated with limited survival. While its pathogenesis remains enigmatic in several important aspects, ADC is generally thought to be caused by HIV-1 itself, rather than to another opportunistic infection."

"An empirically derived, five-step ADC Staging System (Table 1)(6,7) is applied once the diagnosis of ADC is made. The designation is based on the degree of functional incapacity in cognitive and motor activities of work and daily living and ranges from stage 0.5, which describes patients in whom there are neurologic symptoms or signs without functional impairment (subclinical disease) and in whom mild impairment may possibly relate to another condition that cannot be clearly distinguished (equivocal ADC), to stages 4, which indicates severe/end-stage dysfunction."

Very informative

F*ck anyone who hates the pope. He is a nice person and even forgave the person who shot him. Just because some people are pathetic and atheists doesnt mean all are

sorry, not a fan of catholicism, I guess I must be one of those "pathetic" (non-delusional?) atheists you mentioned. But I'd not rejoice at the death of any human being regardless of how much of an arse hole they are, and these catholics do really believe they're doing the right thing for most people which is more than can be said for many institutions in this world. Its just they're wrong. ..... really, really wrong

Part of the job?
Homocide: Can't tell. (I wasn't part of it but I know who did it and what happened)

Suicide: Discovered someone who comitted suicide.

Accidental: Electrocution

Natural: My friend's grandmother (Cancer)

Homocide: Can't tell. (I wasn't part of it but I know who did it and what happened)

Suicide: Discovered someone who comitted suicide.

Accidental: Electrocution

Natural: My friend's grandmother (Cancer)

*Shudders*

sorry, not a fan of catholicism, I guess I must be one of those "pathetic" (non-delusional?) atheists you mentioned. But I'd not rejoice at the death of any human being regardless of how much of an arse hole they are, and these catholics do really believe they're doing the right thing for most people which is more than can be said for many institutions in this world. Its just they're wrong. ..... really, really wrong
No he doesn't mean you he was responding to people you where saying they where happy he was dying.

How do you know it's wrong?

How do you know it's wrong?

You can't. That is why I could never go all the way to atheist, because I just don't know. I stopped at agnostic and am waiting to see how things turn out.

No he doesn't mean you he was responding to people you where saying they where happy he was dying.

How do you know it's wrong?

It's a state of mind job. I see some things as wrong, but you mite not see those same things as wrong. Basic philosphical arguement

Long live His Holiness Pope John Paul II, Vicar of Christ and successor to St. Peter the Rock!

Commando3']Long live His Holiness Pope John Paul II, Vicar of Christ and successor to St. Peter the Rock!
Nice thought, but accept it: His holiness is as good as dead

You can't. That is why I could never go all the way to atheist, because I just don't know. I stopped at agnostic and am waiting to see how things turn out.
It's a state of mind job. I see some things as wrong, but you mite not see those same things as wrong. Basic philosphical arguement
That's why I asked him/her.

Let's back away from the pope to talk about the pope's health and this increasing obsession with it.

We don't need to be kept informed of the pope's every sniffle. We're taking this too seriously. He's OLD! He is going to die. Calm down. Everybody else does the same thing. When you get around his age, it's sort of expected from you.

When they start telling us about his hemorroids, I'm going to have to start wanting him dead! :mad:

When they start telling us about his hemorroids, I'm going to have to start wanting him dead! :mad:
They are getting awfully close. They are talking about his urinary tract infection now (the one causing the fever). And as you know... that's just a hop and a skip away from...

They are getting awfully close. They are talking about his urinary tract infection now (the one causing the fever). And as you know... that's just a hop and a skip away from...

Don't start, my mind is warped enough already!

He is going to die. Calm down.
hehehe

the reason any atheist chooses to dispise religion is the ignorance that is inspired by it. dont get me wrong, religion has done many good things in the world, however the ignorance supplied by religion more than makes up for it. Religious conservatism is a monster threat to any technologically advanced society and must be stopped. However, wishing an old man dead is hardly an effective manner in bring about the eventual fall of the catholic church. The way to combat religion is simply to use their underhanded techniques. For instance if a large council of atheists were to write a rather large and think book that not only justifies atheism but denounces other religions with logic and fact then we will have a start. If atheists unify and work to help the poor and elderly then we would have followers and eventually Christianity, Islam, etc will fall. Every day science comes with a new reason not to believe the bible the only problem is that most have selective hearing and omit the parts that effect their religion. I like to call this the-earth-is-flat effect. A long time ago the catholic church persecuted those who proved/believed the earth was a sphere. Unfortunately this applies to the modern day in a slightly different manner... instead of perscuting concepts the church persecutes other things. Stem-cell research, condoms, etc.


stem-cell research: the churches problem is that the "soul" of a child is in existence from conception... (dumb concept if u ask me... the sperm meets the egg and bam! a soul is sucked into it? right) anyways so no stem-cell... however in my opinion and what is pretty proven fact is that our souls are really our brains. if a chunk of our brain is missing... a chunk of our personality, our dreams, or our memory is gone. (terri schivo is a good example seeing how she had LIMITED functions because her brain was effectively dead.) so... children, babies, fetuses... what about them. its human nature to be disgusted with the death of a child. evolutionary trait really... so it is disturbing for a baby to be killed and i would never ever agree to that simply because human nature repulses the notion and being human i would be appalled to see babies being killed... however stem cells are nothing of a sort. embryos with stem cells die all the time. women who are under 3 months pregnant have an extraordinarily LARGE chance of losing that child. it happens all the time. approximately 1/8 of all women have this happen to them. so where would science harvest the cells? from women who are getting their children aborted anyways. getting back to the soul and brain thing... unborn have no "soul" because they have no mind... they have a brain sure... but its empty.

wow this thread is way longer than i meant it to be. well whatever. something for u guys to chew on i suppose. PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND WITH TECHINICALITIES. ie u dont die from aids technically u die from the diseases that are caused to exist because of aids. right. i dont want that. those are stupid and sidetracking. give me real response please. and dont randomly call me ignorant or get off the point. stick to the point.

it seems cruel to pray for the miracle of keeping a sick old man alive longer than god had intended.
Don't be stupid. How the heck do you know what god intends? Besides, nobody is forcing the Pope to stay alive aside from himself. Even though he is old and frail times a billion, his willpower is immense.

the reason any atheist chooses to dispise religion is the ignorance that is inspired by it. dont get me wrong, religion has done many good things in the world, however the ignorance supplied by religion more than makes up for it. Religious conservatism is a monster threat to any technologically advanced society and must be stopped. However, wishing an old man dead is hardly an effective manner in bring about the eventual fall of the catholic church. The way to combat religion is simply to use their underhanded techniques. For instance if a large council of atheists were to write a rather large and think book that not only justifies atheism but denounces other religions with logic and fact then we will have a start. If atheists unify and work to help the poor and elderly then we would have followers and eventually Christianity, Islam, etc will fall. Every day science comes with a new reason not to believe the bible the only problem is that most have selective hearing and omit the parts that effect their religion. I like to call this the-earth-is-flat effect. A long time ago the catholic church persecuted those who proved/believed the earth was a sphere. Unfortunately this applies to the modern day in a slightly different manner... instead of perscuting concepts the church persecutes other things. Stem-cell research, condoms, etc.

Ever day science comes with some new discovery that religion has already pointed out.