NationStates Jolt Archive

We've all heard the stories of European governments going to extremes to beg or bribe their Panda-like populations to start families, a problem especially profound in Italy, France, Spain, and, well, pretty much the entire continent. But no longer does this problem affect all developed nations!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=590&ncid=721&e=12&u=/ap/20050330/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_baby_boom

So congratulations, Australia: you've done what millions of dollars of European studies and subsidies couldn't, by actually posting a positive birthrate in the last six months! No sarcasm here: this is no small feat. In fact, the only nation in Europe with a population NOT rapidly dying off is Muslim Albania, and let's not even start on Japan. Hell, the Russians even considered leaglizing polygamy at one point, even if only a few ultimately supported it.

If trends continue, Australia may actually be able to GROW its tax base, allowing it to afford the types of social welfare programs Europe's shrinking tax base is failing to support. So hats off to all of you who have fulfilled your *cough* patriotic obligations, and broken the mold for developed nations. I'm shocked and impressed, personally, as are most people who study demographics, to be sure. :eek:

The thought of venturing to Australia just keeps getting better every day.

Your looking at this from a very.... well medieval point of view, growing birth rates aren’t a good thing, I don't understand your logic, is there a danger of white people dying out in your mind, or do you simply want more workers/peasants/soldiers to fight for the glorious motherland?
And if the tax base is shirking, which it real isn’t considering the reason birth rates to death rates are so low is due to the baby boom of the 30's +40's dying now and they don't pay tax either there just dependants, so if anything the falling population in Europe is helping its welfare schemes not hurting them.

Australia has a population of what...13 million or so? I think it's the fourth largest country so it's best they reproduce a bit faster or be annexed by Indonesia and we know how those Muslims breed. :D

So congratulations, Australia: you've done what millions of dollars of European studies and subsidies couldn't, by actually posting a positive birthrate in the last six months! No sarcasm here: this is no small feat.

...

So hats off to all of you who have fulfilled your *cough* patriotic obligations, and broken the mold for developed nations. I'm shocked and impressed, personally, as are most people who study demographics, to be sure. :eek:

More people is exactly what this country does not need.
It comes back to one little teeny problem; there isn't enough water to go around now.

Actually, all of that patriotic crap aside, a growing birth rate is a good thing. Our population is rapidly aging, and we have ample space for more population.

And New Fuglies - It's slightly over 20 million.

Actually, all of that patriotic crap aside, a growing birth rate is a good thing. Our population is rapidly aging, and we have ample space for more population.

And New Fuglies - It's slightly over 20 million.

So it is and I jsut checked. My appologies but I've never been there... :)

More people is exactly what this country does not need.
It comes back to one little teeny problem; there isn't enough water to go around now.

It's our agriculture that drains it. I read a study demonstrating that the irrigation methods we use are hopelessly inefficient in comparison with other western nations. Unfortunately, I can't provide a source. I think it was in the Herald Sun newspaper.

Your looking at this from a very.... well medieval point of view, growing birth rates aren’t a good thing, I don't understand your logic, is there a danger of white people dying out in your mind, or do you simply want more workers/peasants/soldiers to fight for the glorious motherland?
And if the tax base is shirking, which it real isn’t considering the reason birth rates to death rates are so low is due to the baby boom of the 30's +40's dying now and they don't pay tax either there just dependants, so if anything the falling population in Europe is helping its welfare schemes not hurting them.

Unless you allow unlimited immigration, a population does need to replace itself to survive. And no, I'm not talking about "white people" as opposed to any other group. Why do you think almost all European governments, as well as the U.S. government keep raising the subsidy per child for families? The shrinking tax base does hurt social welfare programs.

Matters of culture are entirely different, but equally important to an indigenous population.. but I'm not Australian, so it's not my place to comment on that.

So it is and I jsut checked. My appologies but I've never been there... :)

No apology necessary :)

No apology necessary :)

It's still cannon fodder for the Indonesian Muslim horde... muhahahha! *cough* :D

Because we all know how reliable the Herald Sun is *g* (About as reliable as the Daily Terrorgraph...)

Growing population? NOT a good thing. Until we make major environmental reforms, better ways to save water, or at least break this bloody drought, we're vulnerable to water shortages. As of today, Warragamba Dam, Sydney's main water supply, is at 42.4% and dropping, on average, .2% EVERY WEEK.

I don't know what the situation is in other cities, but certainly in rural areas there's pretty severe water shortage.

Because we all know how reliable the Herald Sun is *g* (About as reliable as the Daily Terrorgraph...)

Growing population? NOT a good thing. Until we make major environmental reforms, better ways to save water, or at least break this bloody drought, we're vulnerable to water shortages. As of today, Warragamba Dam, Sydney's main water supply, is at 42.4% and dropping, on average, .2% EVERY WEEK.

I don't know what the situation is in other cities, but certainly in rural areas there's pretty severe water shortage.

Oh, please. The Herald Sun at times can be...less than politically impartial...but in this particular instance, I don't see what they had to gain by publishing it. It was a pro-environmentalist article.

Actually they broke the mold After making Australians! :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be sorry if the whole human race died off. I'm willing to do my part.

I wouldn't be sorry if the whole human race died off. I'm willing to do my part.

I think you're in the minority with that opinion.. :p Gotta stop the hate and get down to some lovin'. :) Not to mention getting paid for your trouble!

Aww man ain't we Aussies just the best!
Irrelevent yes I know...I'm just feeling all patriotic at the moment...

I live in Australia

This was just a stunt by the Howard government to win votes.

I mean seriously, how can you justify giving money to people just because they have babies?

It just means more deadbeat parents will have more dead-beat kids just so they can get $2000?

It is crazy.

I live in Australia

This was just a stunt by the Howard government to win votes.

I mean seriously, how can you justify giving money to people just because they have babies?

It just means more deadbeat parents will have more dead-beat kids just so they can get $2000?

It is crazy.


I can't believe all those tools didn't see right through that...I guess money blinds people

I wouldn't be sorry if the whole human race died off. I'm willing to do my part.
Heck id join you!
Stupid Earth Haters! :mp5: :mp5: :mp5:

I live in Australia

This was just a stunt by the Howard government to win votes.

I mean seriously, how can you justify giving money to people just because they have babies?

It just means more deadbeat parents will have more dead-beat kids just so they can get $2000?

It is crazy.

I think the theory is that it sweetens the deal for people already considering starting families. I would doubt a woman would go through an entire pregnancy just to collect the 2 grand.. but couples thinking of having kids eventually might be pursuaded more easily. This is the policy of most of the developed world, at least.

I knew I'd have good company in this thread! :D

Our population is rapidly aging,

Surely it's aging at the same rate it's always aged at?

Well im also from aussie, and i think our growth rate was down to like 1.5 kids per family or something like that?

I agree that we should concentrate on growing our population until we sort out a lot of the shit the howard government has ignored, lack of water, rivers bein destroyed by pests etc.

But atleast for now, a stable growth rate would be nice, maybe a nice little 2.0 or 1.9 kids per couple, thatd be nice.

And one thing ive always wanted to know, how come our healthcare system works and our medication is relatively cheap, but the american healthcare system is "failing" and "needs significant reform"? Hows it different?

Surely it's aging at the same rate it's always aged at?

The avarage age of the population is climbing because people are living longer and having fewer children. This means that the ratio between those who pay tax and those who are on aged pensions from tax changes. Fewer workers to support more elderly.

We've all heard the stories of European governments going to extremes to beg or bribe their Panda-like populations to start families, a problem especially profound in Italy, France, Spain, and, well, pretty much the entire continent. But no longer does this problem affect all developed nations!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=590&ncid=721&e=12&u=/ap/20050330/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_baby_boom

So congratulations, Australia: you've done what millions of dollars of European studies and subsidies couldn't, by actually posting a positive birthrate in the last six months! No sarcasm here: this is no small feat. In fact, the only nation in Europe with a population NOT rapidly dying off is Muslim Albania, and let's not even start on Japan. Hell, the Russians even considered leaglizing polygamy at one point, even if only a few ultimately supported it.

If trends continue, Australia may actually be able to GROW its tax base, allowing it to afford the types of social welfare programs Europe's shrinking tax base is failing to support. So hats off to all of you who have fulfilled your *cough* patriotic obligations, and broken the mold for developed nations. I'm shocked and impressed, personally, as are most people who study demographics, to be sure. :eek:

I'm not sure where you get your infomation about Europe from, but I do sociologiy and as a part of it we have looked at global demographic models. No country in Europe has negative population growth, its just the rate of growth is declining, not the growth itself.

It's cos we're all so damn sexy

Surely it's aging at the same rate it's always aged at?

The avarage age of the population is climbing because people are living longer and having fewer children. This means that the ratio between those who pay tax and those who are on aged pensions from tax changes. Fewer workers to support more elderly.

^^

Precisely, PC :)

I would doubt a woman would go through an entire pregnancy just to collect the 2 grand..

ive seen it happen

I'm not sure where you get your infomation about Europe from, but I do sociologiy and as a part of it we have looked at global demographic models. No country in Europe has negative population growth, its just the rate of growth is declining, not the growth itself.

You're right in the aggregate. I mean new population, the kind intended to sustain the old. Naturally the populations of European countries are living longer just like the rest of the world, but new growth is feeble, such as 1.27 children/woman in Italy, one of the worst off.

ive seen it happen

Sure, but I don't think that's what the policy is aimed at. The payment usually barely offsets the cost of a pregnancy, if it even covers it at all, I would imagine.

^^

Precisely, PC :)

I know, I'm amazed at how lucid I am tonight too. :)

Growing population? NOT a good thing. Until we make major environmental reforms, better ways to save water, or at least break this bloody drought, we're vulnerable to water shortages. As of today, Warragamba Dam, Sydney's main water supply, is at 42.4% and dropping, on average, .2% EVERY WEEK. Quit your whining. Over here in Perth, our supplies are currently at the 26% mark and in 2002 we went as low as 17%. At least you guys on the east coast have some vegitative forestland and ferile earth at your backs. We've just got an endless freaking desert. (The wheatbelt was basically just savannah before colonisation). Currently the state government is investing in a billion dollar desalination plant, which means we'll get even more expensive water than before, yay! :rolleyes:

Still, at least it's better than the opposition (Liberal) party's plan, which was to build a massive canal that would run thousands of kilometres from the sub-tropical Kimberlies all the way down to Perth, supposedly supplying us with water. The plan was so ridiculous that it nearly killed the Liberals in the election, and caused it's coaltion partner (the Nationals) to split from them.

Quit your whining. Over here in Perth, our supplies are currently at the 26% mark and in 2002 we went as low as 17%. At least you guys on the east coast have some vegitative forestland and ferile earth at your backs. We've just got an endless freaking desert. (The wheatbelt was basically just savannah before colonisation). Currently the state government is investing in a billion dollar desalination plant, which means we'll get even more expensive water than before, yay! :rolleyes:

Still, at least it's better than the opposition (Liberal) party's plan, which was to build a massive canal that would run thousands of kilometres from the sub-tropical Kimberlies all the way down to Perth, supposedly supplying us with water. The plan was so ridiculous that it nearly killed the Liberals in the election, and caused it's coaltion partner (the Nationals) to split from them.

Damn. I never knew the water situation was such an issue out there. It's like something out of Dune. Maybe urine/sweat recycling is next? :p

Damn. I never knew the water situation was such an issue out there. It's like something out of Dune. Maybe urine/sweat recycling is next? :p

Personally I think de-salinization plants are the best way for the nation to head. We can't rely on rainfall here, the climate will not support us. Things are only going to get worse and we cannot allow ourselves to depend upon imported water.

Source (http://brisbane.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=5032)

World water reserves are drying up fast and booming populations, pollution and global warming will combine to cut the average person's water supply by a third in the next 20 years, the United Nations said last Wednesday.

Personally I think de-salinization plants are the best way for the nation to head. We can't rely on rainfall here, the climate will not support us. Things are only going to get worse and we cannot allow ourselves to depend upon imported water.

Source (http://brisbane.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=5032)

I believe it, I was just unaware of the extent of the problem there. In fact, I hadn't heard of it at all. If the Saudis are any measure, I'd think desalinization is the way to go as well.

I believe it, I was just unaware of the extent of the problem there. In fact, I hadn't heard of it at all. If the Saudis are any measure, I'd think desalinization is the way to go as well.
If only we could get decent cheap desalinisation plants, we'd be set... we have the nice Artesian basin and more sea than most nations. Cept for Canadia. They have all the water...

Just wondering if the other states are still on the strict water restrictions like last year? I'd imagine WA would be because as it's been stated, it's a desert. All i know is that in Qld, a couple of our major damns are at an adequate capacity, i guess...
As for that $3000 for a baby scheme, I know a 24 year old who just got his 16 year old girlfriend pregnant for that specific purpose, just so he can use it to gamble.

a similar thing is happening here in the uk, tho i suspect not anywhere near to the same degree as in australia, our reserves are normally at 98% at this time of year.. after one of the dryest winters ever recorder they are at 32%, they are on about hose pipe and sprinkler bans soon!

They have all the water... We should invade them! It's not like anyone will care ;) .

j/k :D

Oh, please. The Herald Sun at times can be...less than politically impartial...but in this particular instance, I don't see what they had to gain by publishing it. It was a pro-environmentalist article.

Sorry... I was just making a general comment. I actually agree with that article...

Quit your whining. Over here in Perth, our supplies are currently at the 26% mark and in 2002 we went as low as 17%...

o.O That bad, is it? Yikes! I think the lowest we got was around 32%...

Still, at least it's better than the opposition (Liberal) party's plan, which was to build a massive canal that would run thousands of kilometres from the sub-tropical Kimberlies all the way down to Perth, supposedly supplying us with water. The plan was so ridiculous that it nearly killed the Liberals in the election, and caused it's coaltion partner (the Nationals) to split from them.

Hehe, I heard about that. Sucked in, Barnett XD