NationStates Jolt Archive

Ergo, I dare say that the VAST MAJORITY of American Republicans are not Fascists.

Please look into the meaning of your labels before applying them.
Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy. The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." Check.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc." Check.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc." Check. Who are "The Terrorists"? This administration hasn't been very specific, but there are zillions of 'em, and we apparently have to kill them all before they kill us.

Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Check. Never before has the military ever been so glorified.

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy." Check. While women are not told their job is to produce healthy children, their rights are definitely restricted by this administration.

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common." This one is not currently the case, although it should be noted that our media consists of a bunch of pansy little girls who cannot form opinions, say anything bad about anyone, or point out when anyone in our government is being evil.

Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." CHECK. "The Terrorists will strike possibly within the next few weeks... we expect them to try something around the election... or Christmas... We'll just raise the threat level to be safe."

Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions." Check. Faith-Based initiatives anyone?

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." CHECK +1. This government has shown raving support for business, giving corporations more rights than even individual people get, allowing them to ransack the environment, and changing the tax code blantantly to favor corporations and the wealthy.

Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed." 1/2 check, because it hasn't really come up. Note, however, that Bush's Big Social Security Fix is to cut benefits.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts." Check, as per the slur "white tower College liberals".

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations." Check. Patriot act, anyone?

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders." Check. What does this administration do when it needs a new Secretary of State? It picks Condoleeza Rice! What did her former job as National Security Advisor have to do with international diplomacy, beside also serving on the National Security Council? Who do they pick to run the EPA? Mike Leavitt, former Utah governor who oversaw some of the worst deregulation and lowering of protections that left the state open to be wantonly ravaged by corporate interest. For the Environmental PROTECTION Agency!

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections." Doubleplus Check: Why did exit polls show that Kerry won?

*Shoves fingers in ears and plays the Star Spangled Banner reeally loud while saying GOD BLESS BUSH over and over and over*

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy. The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." Check.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc." Check.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc." Check. Who are "The Terrorists"? This administration hasn't been very specific, but there are zillions of 'em, and we apparently have to kill them all before they kill us.

Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Check. Never before has the military ever been so glorified.

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy." Check. While women are not told their job is to produce healthy children, their rights are definitely restricted by this administration.

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common." This one is not currently the case, although it should be noted that our media consists of a bunch of pansy little girls who cannot form opinions, say anything bad about anyone, or point out when anyone in our government is being evil.

Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." CHECK. "The Terrorists will strike possibly within the next few weeks... we expect them to try something around the election... or Christmas... We'll just raise the threat level to be safe."

Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions." Check. Faith-Based initiatives anyone?

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." CHECK +1. This government has shown raving support for business, giving corporations more rights than even individual people get, allowing them to ransack the environment, and changing the tax code blantantly to favor corporations and the wealthy.

Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed." 1/2 check, because it hasn't really come up. Note, however, that Bush's Big Social Security Fix is to cut benefits.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts." Check, as per the slur "white tower College liberals".

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations." Check. Patriot act, anyone?

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders." Check. What does this administration do when it needs a new Secretary of State? It picks Condoleeza Rice! What did her former job as National Security Advisor have to do with international diplomacy, beside also serving on the National Security Council? Who do they pick to run the EPA? Mike Leavitt, former Utah governor who oversaw some of the worst deregulation and lowering of protections that left the state open to be wantonly ravaged by corporate interest. For the Environmental PROTECTION Agency!

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections." Doubleplus Check: Why did exit polls show that Kerry won?


Hmm.......well......holes i can drive a truck through...since i do;t feel like putting all the Quotes in there....i will reply down here....

1: So, being fascist is being proud of your nation.....hmm..then every time you sing the national anthem you are fascist?

2: Torture? hmmm...i still think the word torture does not apply to what happened in Gitmo, and, even if it does...that is isolated and the perpretrators have been reprimanded.

3: The terrorists...they are people using violence and fear to impose a minority political ideology. We have identified outr main threat as Al Queda.

4: Or vilified. Thanks to american media coverage, people who have never seen combat are making judgements about soldiers. Soldiers aren't glamorized...they are respected. Why should we not respect those who CHOOSE to join the miltary and defend us against threats.....

5: Rampant Sexism? Secretary of state is a female. Several members of the cabinet are female, several senators are female....this argument holds about as much water as a tea strainer.

6: They say nothing bad becasue they arew afraid of a libel suit being put up against them. Thank you liberal america for makeing political correctness the norm.

7: And what is wron with raising the security when there may be an increased risk of attack. do you really want to be on a plane visiting grandma for the holidays when you sudeenly find yourself hurtling into a chemical plant, skyscraper, etc? They always had those threat levels, but they were never pertinent to the public becasue they oftentimes were not at risk.

8: Hmm...i never saw this....what about the seperation of church and state? Haven;t we been taking down innocuous symbols from public places.....Just becasue a president affirms his religeous beliefs doesn't mean it is a theocracy or that ll decisions come directly from the bible...kerry was an avowed catholic.....

9: Would you like to post a source before becoming so rhetorical. We jsut passed the clean air act. We invesitgate questionable corporate policies (enron). Large business hold more economic clout than small mom and pop drugstores. You have to be large to havve the capital to produce the goods you find so precious en masse.

10: The social security fix is the best thing we have come up with yet. libs and conservs alike say that soc sec needs to be changed, however everyone is whining without bringing a viable solution to the table, at least bush has stepped up to the plate on this one.

11: Hmm....once again this holds no water....government spending on education is at an all time high....and don;t say it is liberal thought becasue congress is republican right now. That "slur" is directed at people who indoctrine their students rather than teaching them, which, thankfully are few.

12: How do they have unlimited power.....i have yet to see any american detained and against his will. please provide a specific example and i may change my view.

13: Once again i dont; see your argument that they are "protecting each other from accountability" what did appointing condi have to do with anything unscrupulous?

14: This is the most laughable one yet. Exit polls are garbage. Conservatives tend to be older and tend to beleive that it is a secret ballot for a reason, therfore who you voted for is your biusiness, not some punk who comes up to you and says "so, who did u vote for?"

fas·cism (făsh'ĭz'əm)
n.
often Fascism
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.
[Italian fascismo, from fascio, group, from Late Latin fascium, from Latin fascis, bundle.]

You will notice that conservatives in the US are not advocating a dictatorship. Neither is Bush a dictator. Go back to class.

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy. The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." Check.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc." Check.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc." Check. Who are "The Terrorists"? This administration hasn't been very specific, but there are zillions of 'em, and we apparently have to kill them all before they kill us.

Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Check. Never before has the military ever been so glorified.

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy." Check. While women are not told their job is to produce healthy children, their rights are definitely restricted by this administration.

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common." This one is not currently the case, although it should be noted that our media consists of a bunch of pansy little girls who cannot form opinions, say anything bad about anyone, or point out when anyone in our government is being evil.

Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." CHECK. "The Terrorists will strike possibly within the next few weeks... we expect them to try something around the election... or Christmas... We'll just raise the threat level to be safe."

Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions." Check. Faith-Based initiatives anyone?

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." CHECK +1. This government has shown raving support for business, giving corporations more rights than even individual people get, allowing them to ransack the environment, and changing the tax code blantantly to favor corporations and the wealthy.

Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed." 1/2 check, because it hasn't really come up. Note, however, that Bush's Big Social Security Fix is to cut benefits.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts." Check, as per the slur "white tower College liberals".

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations." Check. Patriot act, anyone?

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders." Check. What does this administration do when it needs a new Secretary of State? It picks Condoleeza Rice! What did her former job as National Security Advisor have to do with international diplomacy, beside also serving on the National Security Council? Who do they pick to run the EPA? Mike Leavitt, former Utah governor who oversaw some of the worst deregulation and lowering of protections that left the state open to be wantonly ravaged by corporate interest. For the Environmental PROTECTION Agency!

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections." Doubleplus Check: Why did exit polls show that Kerry won?


I can't wait until you go to the UK, join the Royal Navy - as per your silly plan - and get punched in the face by a Killick at HMS Raleigh for being a whinger with a smart mouth and too much time on his idle hands.

Then I will laugh more when you complain to a CPO, and he punches you for getting punched in the first place.

When you will come back I will ask you a fascism again.

By the definitions that he uses, most former and current Communist and Islamic countries would count too.

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
Supremacy of the Military
Rampant Sexism
Controlled Mass Media
Obsession with National Security
Religion and Government are Intertwined
Corporate Power is Protected
Labor Power is Suppressed
Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fraudulent Elections

There is no disdain for true intellectuals and the arts. Cronyism is something that every political party since the dawn of time is guilty of. There is not Rampent Sexism within the current Admin. which actually has had more high profile minorities than any past Admin, not that I like all of them either. The mass media couldn't be much farther Left if it was run by the DNC. The military does not hold supremicy in this country and is commonly derided by many. There are more Labor Union members today than there were 30 years ago and the opening of U.S. markets is painful but necessary if we want to have a viable economy over the next hundred years, painful as it may be for the currently overpriced labor market here. Religion is getting dangerously close to Gov. IMO, but not to the point of running the Gov. Human rights are just as protected if not more so than at anytime in the past. Yes, scapegoating is a problem, but not a new one and not specific to either party. Corperate power is WAY over protected by both parties, but that is what keeps them both in business so it probably won't change with anything short of a revolution. And, if you believe that the most recent election was any more fraudulent than any of them since Lincoln, I have Ocean Side Property in Iowa I'd like to sell you.

I can't wait until you go to the UK, join the Royal Navy - as per your silly plan - and get punched in the face by a Killick at HMS Raleigh for being a whinger with a smart mouth and too much time on his idle hands.

Then I will laugh more when you complain to a CPO, and he punches you for getting punched in the first place.

When you will come back I will ask you a fascism again.

He could always try for the SAS. Then they would send him overseas to kill terrorists.

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy. The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." Check.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc." Check.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc." Check. Who are "The Terrorists"? This administration hasn't been very specific, but there are zillions of 'em, and we apparently have to kill them all before they kill us.

Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Check. Never before has the military ever been so glorified.

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy." Check. While women are not told their job is to produce healthy children, their rights are definitely restricted by this administration.

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common." This one is not currently the case, although it should be noted that our media consists of a bunch of pansy little girls who cannot form opinions, say anything bad about anyone, or point out when anyone in our government is being evil.

Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." CHECK. "The Terrorists will strike possibly within the next few weeks... we expect them to try something around the election... or Christmas... We'll just raise the threat level to be safe."

Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions." Check. Faith-Based initiatives anyone?

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." CHECK +1. This government has shown raving support for business, giving corporations more rights than even individual people get, allowing them to ransack the environment, and changing the tax code blantantly to favor corporations and the wealthy.

Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed." 1/2 check, because it hasn't really come up. Note, however, that Bush's Big Social Security Fix is to cut benefits.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts." Check, as per the slur "white tower College liberals".

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations." Check. Patriot act, anyone?

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders." Check. What does this administration do when it needs a new Secretary of State? It picks Condoleeza Rice! What did her former job as National Security Advisor have to do with international diplomacy, beside also serving on the National Security Council? Who do they pick to run the EPA? Mike Leavitt, former Utah governor who oversaw some of the worst deregulation and lowering of protections that left the state open to be wantonly ravaged by corporate interest. For the Environmental PROTECTION Agency!

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections." Doubleplus Check: Why did exit polls show that Kerry won?

This is a total joke.

Why did exsit polls show that Kerry won?

WHAT WAS THE AGE OF THE SAMPLE WHO TOOK PART IN EXIT POLLING?

lmao

i would imagine that the pissed-off kids who voted for kerry were more than willing to take the time to be in an exit interview

while John doe Republican hurried home

an unrepresentative sample very likely accounts for the *misleading* exit-poll numbers.

As for that political scientist, hmmm... you're banking on ONE GUY'S definition of what HE calls "Fascism" ... and trying to make it fit America.

There are so many ways in which that treatise does NOT fit America and so many more where it is totally VAGUE and would fit MOST nations/people on earth. But I see that some of my COMRADES (lol) got to it first.

so i guess we were fascist during world war II under that socialist FDR... huh? I mean we were really waving our flags then, industry was behind the military at the behest of the government, Japanese people were scorned and imprisoned.

that is so vague and mass-applicable that it really is hilarious that this quack got any degree at all.

He could always try for the SAS. Then they would send him overseas to kill terrorists.

That's good too, because then he would have to join the army first, and they punch you just as much for being smart-mouthed and whiney about shit like politics &ct.

In fact I hope he strikes out for the Parachute Reg. Then he will learn that while the 'fascist' US does not condone ritual beating of recruits and other nasty hazing rituals, it's all quite condoned in the 'liberal' UK,

Looks at self. Am I conservative? Certainly. Am I a fascist? Nope.

Sorry buddy, maybe next time.

OOO maybe I could post a topic:

Liberals ARE COMMUNISTS

I bet that would go over well...

Whispered Legs good POST!

lol if he were sent overseas he'd end up trying to rally the insurgents against the US/UK... and would be shot for treason.

or is that an example of sedition?

either way, he'd likely be happy to oblige.

GO TO CANADA IF THE US ISN'T SOCIALISTIC ENOUGH FOR YOU

1: So, being fascist is being proud of your nation.....hmm..then every time you sing the national anthem you are fascist?
Even in Elementary school, it is taught that nationalism is a factor which contributes to war. People who are "fiercely patriotic" are far more willing to kill. Fascist politicians use this.

2: Torture? hmmm...i still think the word torture does not apply to what happened in Gitmo, and, even if it does...that is isolated and the perpretrators have been reprimanded.
Human Rights Watch wrote a report (http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/13/afghan8577.htm), saying that prison abuse was "systemic", and that it was not only in Guantanamo or Abu Graib. The Chinese wrote a report (http://english.people.com.cn/200503/03/eng20050303_175406.html) that we view "human rights abuses" with a double standard, listing our human rights record until 2004. The U.N. released a similar report, and both Italy and France have denounced the U.S. on this issue, though they've written no reports.

In retaliation, the U.S. has also been voted off (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/05/03/us.human/) the U.N. Human Rights Commission.

The U.S. also shows disdain for human rights, by refusing to ratify International Human Rights Treaties (http://www.globalpolicy.org/empire/un/2003/0806charade.htm).

3: The terrorists...they are people using violence and fear to impose a minority political ideology. We have identified outr main threat as Al Queda.
They are, by no means, a minority. If they were, Iraq would be over. These are militant, Islamic Fundamentalists. And there's quite a lot of them in the U.S.. And "Al-Qaeda" is just a generic name the U.S. uses to identify terrorists. There really is no clear "Al-Qaeda" network anymore. The majority of organized terrorists were in the Taliban, which has mostly been dissolved. "Al-Qaeda" is a militant religious and political movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-qaeda), not a set group. It is the equivalent of saying "Westerners." It's a general idea that could be applied to many people, but has no set definition. Because of this, it is a witch hunt. They try to link every person to whatever nearby radical, Muslim extremist groups there are, and if so, then they're part of this "Al-Qaeda" conspiracy. It doesn't exist. There are terrorists, of course, but this global conspiracy is a myth.

4: Or vilified. Thanks to american media coverage, people who have never seen combat are making judgements about soldiers. Soldiers aren't glamorized...they are respected. Why should we not respect those who CHOOSE to join the miltary and defend us against threats.....
Why should Bush cut military benefits and military pay, including hazard pay, for people FIGHTING in Iraq? And you say soldiers aren't glamorized? I think you need to take a look at the number of war games on Playstation and X-Box, buddy.

5: Rampant Sexism? Secretary of state is a female. Several members of the cabinet are female, several senators are female....this argument holds about as much water as a tea strainer.
And yet Conservatives so violently oppose feminism.

6: They say nothing bad becasue they arew afraid of a libel suit being put up against them. Thank you liberal america for makeing political correctness the norm.
Or because Bush is paying them.

7: And what is wron with raising the security when there may be an increased risk of attack. do you really want to be on a plane visiting grandma for the holidays when you sudeenly find yourself hurtling into a chemical plant, skyscraper, etc? They always had those threat levels, but they were never pertinent to the public becasue they oftentimes were not at risk.
What is wrong with building more nuclear weapons, when you have enough to destroy the world several times? Gee, I wonder.

What's the point of spending billions on military research, when we can supposedly crush any country in the world? Hmm.

8: Hmm...i never saw this....what about the seperation of church and state? Haven;t we been taking down innocuous symbols from public places.....Just becasue a president affirms his religeous beliefs doesn't mean it is a theocracy or that ll decisions come directly from the bible...kerry was an avowed catholic.....
And yet, this President quotes the Bible on TV after 9\11. He pushes for "faith-based initiatives." He repeatedly mentions his religious faith, as if it's relevant. And, because of people's stupidity, their blind acceptance that he really is a good man (because that's what they'd like to think) leads them to embrace this fascist, just as the Germans embraced Hitler.

9: Would you like to post a source before becoming so rhetorical. We jsut passed the clean air act. We invesitgate questionable corporate policies (enron). Large business hold more economic clout than small mom and pop drugstores. You have to be large to havve the capital to produce the goods you find so precious en masse.
A Conservative whom I respect very much, once told me that both Wal-Mart and Microsoft control more of the marketshare in their industries, than past corporations which have been broken up for being monopolies. I'll ask him for a specific source on this. He agrees - In America, we're run by corporations.

10: The social security fix is the best thing we have come up with yet. libs and conservs alike say that soc sec needs to be changed, however everyone is whining without bringing a viable solution to the table, at least bush has stepped up to the plate on this one.
Social Security had a surplus when Clinton was in office. Bush promised he wouldn't spend it, but then did. Now he's putting out this idea that Social Security is going to fail, but what he doesn't mention is that it will 'fail' in over 50 years. In the 1950's, we thought we'd have flying cars by now. It didn't happen. 50 years is a long, long time, and no reason to do something as stupid as privatize Social Security. Countries which have done this faced massive deficits. Also, about labor power, let's not forget how often Conservatives mention that labor unions are evil.

11: Hmm....once again this holds no water....government spending on education is at an all time high....and don;t say it is liberal thought becasue congress is republican right now. That "slur" is directed at people who indoctrine their students rather than teaching them, which, thankfully are few.
...Except for the No Child Left Behind program, which is heavily underfunded. Conservatives constantly mention that modern art isn't art, that children shouldn't be exposed to sexual art (not porn, but artwork), that there should be no funding for college art, and now they bash professors for being 'liberal', when the truth is, they're intellectuals. And currently, liberalism is the philosophy accepted by most people who are educated and intelligent, although, in the past, things were different.

12: How do they have unlimited power.....i have yet to see any american detained and against his will. please provide a specific example and i may change my view.
Detained in Saudi Arabia for 20 months, against his will (http://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.php?aid=5450)
Hamdi and Jose Padilla, two Americans, held without charge at Guantanamo (http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=8550)

BUT WHY DO THEY NEED TO BE AMERICANS?! IS IT OKAY TO IMPRISON AND TORTURE INNOCENT GERMANS AND IRAQIS, BUT NOT OUR CITIZENS?!

You look at the Patriot Act. Tell me that's not turning the U.S. into a fascist, police state. There's also "obession with crime and punishment", with Conservatives wanting to make it easier to get the death penalty, harshen sentencing, and completely ignore prison rape.

13: Once again i dont; see your argument that they are "protecting each other from accountability" what did appointing condi have to do with anything unscrupulous?
...? I didn't mention Condi?

14: This is the most laughable one yet. Exit polls are garbage. Conservatives tend to be older and tend to beleive that it is a secret ballot for a reason, therfore who you voted for is your biusiness, not some punk who comes up to you and says "so, who did u vote for?"
Not "Exit Polls." Electronic voting machines without paper receipts are ridiculous. In 2000, it was shown that a million black votes were thrown out in Florida. Do you really think the DNC gave that many people crack? No.

lol if he were sent overseas he'd end up trying to rally the insurgents against the US/UK... and would be shot for treason.

Nah, he'd get 19 years like Johny Lindh Walker.

I agree the modern conservative movement based around corporatism and the military industrial complex edges more towards fascism every day. Dwight Eisenhower saw this happening and tried to warn people in his final address.

Stick your figures in your ears and sing all you want but plutopia was made a point that cant simply be fobbed off by, I GUESS ALL LIBERALS ARE COMMUNISTS!!!!!111!!!

THAT's his name... I'd forgotten all about that traitorous/seditious bastard.

if you don't like our country, go the fuck somewhere else.... rather than betraying us. (hypothetically... if you feel so strongly against the country that you feel compelled to help its enemies, renounce citizenship first).

OOO maybe I could post a topic:

Liberals ARE COMMUNISTS

I bet that would go over well...
But it's true!
I've SEEN a liberal who was a communist with my own eyes! I swear!
That means they all are!

:D

But it's true!
I've SEEN a liberal who was a communist with my own eyes! I swear!
That means they all are!

:D

:: gasp ::

LOL. Maybe if we keep up the stoopid and amusing posts it'll prevent a flame war. But then again, wait, nope, bad theory.

But it's true!
I've SEEN a liberal who was a communist with my own eyes! I swear!
That means they all are!

:D

Considering how successful our pod distribution campaign has been, I don't see how there could be any liberals left. Are you saying that we missed some?

Considering how successful our pod distribution campaign has been, I don't see how there could be any liberals left. Are you saying that we missed some?

Sorry guys I sort of, err, missed a few "subjects" because I had to go indoctrinate some minors about the gloriousness of genocide.

I accidentally forgot to reply to all of that guy's comments. If anyone wants, go back. I listed plenty of links as evidence.

I accidentally forgot to reply to all of that guy's comments. If anyone wants, go back. I listed plenty of links as evidence.

I see you haven't had a pod delivered to your house yet. Soon you will be one of us, brother.

That was a funny list. I'm off to go find a Political Scientist (tm) that can bolster my agenda with pseudo-intellectual rhetoric.

That's good too, because then he would have to join the army first, and they punch you just as much for being smart-mouthed and whiney about shit like politics &ct.

In fact I hope he strikes out for the Parachute Reg. Then he will learn that while the 'fascist' US does not condone ritual beating of recruits and other nasty hazing rituals, it's all quite condoned in the 'liberal' UK,


Wont they be punching him already, simply for the dress he is wearing?

Wont they be punching him already, simply for the dress he is wearing?

Hmm, good point. I forgot about that.

I see you haven't had a pod delivered to your house yet. Soon you will be one of us, brother.
*shakes fist*

http://www.12join.de/archiv/200310212349545449232110200336566ape-bush.jpg

YOU DAMN, DIRTY APES!!

Somebody posted a thread asking why Americans seem paranoid...I think I've found the answer!!! All conservatives are labeled fascists....and all liberals are labeled communists. Everyone has to keep looking over their shoulder to see what kind of label they're going to be wearing next.

As far as labels go...seems like the liberals are all up in arms about people being stereotyped...but they don't seem to hesitate in stereotyping conservatives, religious people, republicans, woman republicans, black republicans, moderates, and basically anyone who disagrees with them. Ironic.

And someone mentioned the theoretical election fraud in 2000....does anyone actually think that even if there was a smidgen of possibility that it happened that the news media would be all over it like flies on sugar? I can see election fraud being overlooked if Gore had gotten in, but a republican...with a largely democratic media....puhleeze!!!! :p

As for that political scientist, hmmm... you're banking on ONE GUY'S definition of what HE calls "Fascism" ... and trying to make it fit America.


Actually, it is a pretty well-established definition of fascism. How well it fits the United States, well, that's different.

if you don't like our country, go the fuck somewhere else.... rather than betraying us. (hypothetically... if you feel so strongly against the country that you feel compelled to help its enemies, renounce citizenship first).

That's exactly the wrong attitude. If someone doesn't like our country, it is their patriotic duty to try and change it through all the legal means provided. Simply running away when things don't work out the way you want is cowardly, and entirely opposed to everything this country supposedly stands for.

President Bush once said, "It'd be a heck of a lot easier if it were a dictatorship, heheheh, so long as I'm the dictator."

It's at the end of this movie:
http://www.ihatepatrobertson.com/movies/right.mp4

That was a funny list. I'm off to go find a Political Scientist (tm) that can bolster my agenda with pseudo-intellectual rhetoric.

Now, now, don't denounce Dr. Britt's list just because this monkey managed to twist it to fit his view of the United States.

President Bush once said, "It'd be a heck of a lot easier if it were a dictatorship, heheheh, so long as I'm the dictator."

It's at the end of this movie:
http://www.ihatepatrobertson.com/movies/right.mp4


Okay... ARe wE oFf oUr MeDs AgAiN? Agitprop doesn't count as a source, not even funny Agitprop.

You're what, nineteen, right?

Obviously, you haven't learned not to trust everything you see, hear, or read yet. It's forgiveable. Someone (I think he was british) said that "If you aren't a Socialist by the age of eighteen, you have no heart-but if you are still a socialist by the age of forty, you have no brain."

You've asserted quite convincingly that you intend to be taken for a socialist. I'm not convinced that anyone who pushes as hard as you do here, actually is what he claims to be. It's like going to a Drag bar-the Queens are so busy being "Feminine" you can tell they aren't real women. Same with your Leftism, Plutophobia. It's gotten to the point of being campy.

Admit it, you're a bible-thumping neocon, making fun of Libs by doing a bad impersonation of their most annoying traits, aren't you??

[COLOR=Blue]Facists are dictators that have complete control over everybody. Accusations to goverments such as China can quickly get you thrown in jail. Conservatives like to stick to their original form of goverment or the laws by which they stand by. Not wanting change isn't a necessarily a bad thing. Even the U.S.S.R are pretty much conservatives as their form of goverment would fall apart if countries became independent and they are rightfully communists. However this opinon like being liberal has flaws aswell

At first when I saw the title of this thread, I groaned because I just knew it would just be inflamatory rhetoric.

I was suprised to actually find some strong (and somewhat disturbing) connections between fascist ideals and the current US government's political agenda.

1) Rampant nationalism and disregard for human rights are core characteristics of fascism, which can be seen in America's Patriot Act (ie"God bless America" every two seconds, and rights of privacy/sovereignty being violated).
2) Blaming terrorism and the "Axis of Evil" for all the world's problems actually does vaguely resemble the scapegoats of other fascist leaders. (blaming the Jews anyone?)
3) I hope nobody needs to be convinced that America has a military fixation, or an obsession with National Security for that matter (those should be obvious). Again, fascist states were often fixated on the military.
4) The separation of church and state seems less and less clear these days, and the current president actually believes he is chosen by God, which is also somewhat similar to claims made by past fascist dictators.
5) (Lesser points) The protection of corporate powers, cronyism, a controlled media and "fraudulent" elections are more controversial, but they're interesting points nonetheless.

Unfortunately I think the title is completely misleading. It suggests that all conservatives support these particular ideals, which is for the most part untrue. It is however an interesting comparison between the Bush administration and a few fascist characteristics.

PS: Please don't yell at me, I'm simply saying that his points weren't as ridiculous as previous posts have given him credit for. That is all.

Of course it would be easier in a dictatorship, there's no one to answer to, it makes everything easier and significantly more efficient. That's about the most truthful statement about anything and would apply to every country.

Okay... ARe wE oFf oUr MeDs AgAiN? Agitprop doesn't count as a source, not even funny Agitprop.

You're what, nineteen, right?

Obviously, you haven't learned not to trust everything you see, hear, or read yet. It's forgiveable. Someone (I think he was british) said that "If you aren't a Socialist by the age of eighteen, you have no heart-but if you are still a socialist by the age of forty, you have no brain."

You've asserted quite convincingly that you intend to be taken for a socialist. I'm not convinced that anyone who pushes as hard as you do here, actually is what he claims to be. It's like going to a Drag bar-the Queens are so busy being "Feminine" you can tell they aren't real women. Same with your Leftism, Plutophobia. It's gotten to the point of being campy.

Admit it, you're a bible-thumping neocon, making fun of Libs by doing a bad impersonation of their most annoying traits, aren't you??
If I was a Neocon and you said that right now, I'd call the NSA, have their computer division hack the simple password encryption within the PHP of this forum (assuming its kept on the website, which it probably is). Then, I'd have your post deleted, make another call to the FBI. Let them know I just recieved a terrorist threat from you and have you disappear. Forever.

But no, hahaha. I'm a Liberal. People like what I just described, terrify me. I don't believe everything I hear--which is why I don't trust the President, or either political party.

EDIT: God. I just sounded like a paranoid freak, didn't I? No. I'm not a conspiracy-theorist, but I don't doubt our government does some fucked up shit we don't know about.

If I was a Neocon and you said that right now, I'd call the NSA, have their computer division hack the simple password encryption within the PHP of this forum (assuming its kept on the website, which it probably is). Then, I'd have your post deleted, make another call to the FBI. Let them know I just recieved a terrorist threat from you and have you disappear. Forever.

But no, hahaha. I'm a Liberal. People like what I just described, terrify me. I don't believe everything I hear--which is why I don't trust the President, or either political party.

EDIT: God. I just sounded like a paranoid freak, didn't I? No. I'm not a conspiracy-theorist, but I don't doubt our government does some fucked up shit we don't know about.

LOL call the NSA. Sure that number is listed in the Yellow Pages. Hell they'd probably beat you up just for calling them.

LOL call the NSA. Sure that number is listed in the Yellow Pages. Hell they'd probably beat you up just for calling them.
When you say Neocon, though, Neocon.. That's more like a rich man's club. "THE NEOCONS."

Isn't that..like.. the evil robots the Transformers were trying to kill?

If I was a Neocon and you said that right now, I'd call the NSA, have their computer division hack the simple password encryption within the PHP of this forum (assuming its kept on the website, which it probably is). Then, I'd have your post deleted, make another call to the FBI. Let them know I just recieved a terrorist threat from you and have you disappear. Forever.

But no, hahaha. I'm a Liberal. People like what I just described, terrify me. I don't believe everything I hear--which is why I don't trust the President, or either political party.

EDIT: God. I just sounded like a paranoid freak, didn't I? No. I'm not a conspiracy-theorist, but I don't doubt our government does some fucked up shit we don't know about.
You don’t know much about cryptography I see :-D nor forum backups ;)

When you say Neocon, though, Neocon.. That's more like a rich man's club. "THE NEOCONS."

Isn't that..like.. the evil robots the Transformers were trying to kill?

Could that be repeated in sober?

You don’t know much about cryptography I see :-D nor forum backups ;)
You can do it just mentally, or you can follow patterns. Certain letters of the alphabet are more common and you can set an algorithm to look for those ("frequency analysis").

Or, you can do searches for certain keywords... Running it through every encryption possible, organizing the results according to certain 'hits', which are identified by whether or not they have certain keywords. That's called a "Kasiski Test."

The same idea is applied with "Differential cryptanalysis", which applies different ciphers to encrypted data, to determine which 'differences' between ciphers occur most often. This narrows things down as well.

There's also even more complex methods than that, but that's just some of the basics.

[...]
idiot
Main Entry: id·i·ot
Pronunciation: 'id-E-&t
Function: noun
A person of subnormal intelligence [syn: imbecile, cretin, moron, changeling, half-wit, retard]

Oh, and I'm not a programmer, but PHP is \/\/34I<

Good points, but being conservative does NOT make one a fascist.

First of all, kudos to Plutophobia for standing up and talking about this issue. If you live in the US, I know how annoying it can be to have all your ideas shot down by others calling you a communist, or some other leftist-fearing term.

EDIT: God. I just sounded like a paranoid freak, didn't I? No. I'm not a conspiracy-theorist, but I don't doubt our government does some fucked up shit we don't know about.
No, you're not paranoid. There's plenty of exmaples of the US doing some messed up covert operations (Grenada, Past friendships with Suddam and Bin Laden etc. etc.) They pick their friends solely on how those friends can help them economically or politically. Economically, many countries supply the US with revevue (Being friendly to Iraq and Canada while they were willing to trade oil for example). Politically, they use other nations to promote their right-wing, capitalist ideals all over the world (Hiring Bin Laden to fight the Soviets, Hiring Suddam to crush the leftist ideas brewing in Iran). The moment one nations goes against any of the ideals on Plutophobia's list, those nations become part of the "Axis of Evil". The moment Canda refused Iraq and Missile Defence, they start "postponing" trips, and don't recieve our calls. Being a canadaian, I can say that this is absolute lunacy. We've been stuck for almost 15 years, trying to settle the softwood lumber issue, but the US refuses to let us export to them, which totally goes against NAFTA! We've waited fior those many years, patiently, and yet when we refuse to join with their crazy ideals, they have a hissy fit! Every single thing on Plutophobia's list is correct, and I'm willling to give exmaples if someone demands them, but for now, I think my reply is long enough.

Good points, but being conservative does NOT make one a fascist.

Remember RB it's a vast conspiracy by us conservatives to eat their babies.

First of all: Wow! I'm stunned!!! Very good post indeed. In the following I'll check whether Germany has learned its lesson ;)


Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays."
Nope.


Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc."
Nope.


Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc."
Nope.


Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized."
Nope. Although we still built the best U-boats, rifles and battle tanks (wonder why that is - guess we like to sell them or something) and I like to play loud military marches when doing the spring-cleaning - mmmh, shiny objects and clean windows :D


Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy."
Nope. Although it would make things easier with the XX-chromosomed people if they only realized that there's nothing left for us guys once they take over (and then still complain about our last areas of retreat)


Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common."
Hell no! Although I'd like to be able to buy my computer games with all the blood and gore effects and not the lame PG-13 family approved version...


Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses."
Mmh. Got the feeling that this is a point where we shouldn't copy just anything from our friend and ally between Canada and Mexico...


Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions."
Not really - the only intertwinition, intertwination, intertwinivation... thing intertwined is that once you're a member of a government-acknowledged church, church tax is automatically deducted from your income.


Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite."
Nope, although some big businesses profited a lot from their role in Nazi-Germany.


Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed."
No. Although the unions have a hard time to cope with the changes taking place in the European Union...


Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts."
Mmh... no!


Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations."
No, no, no - and I'll object any barcoding and so forth... there once was a time when people got numbers on their forearms: That must never happen again!
I'm against the death penalty no matter what because no person has the right to take another persons life - sinking to the same level doesn't help at all and don't you start with the deterring argument: If that worked, there'd be no murders in the States with the dp.


Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders."
After looking up Cronyism I can state that our media is more than happy to bring to public notice anything like it.


Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections."
Definitely not and I haven't missed a single election yet and planning to participate in the future!

Wohoo! Now we just have to strip all those neo-nazis naked and start chasing them around the country and spray paint them with liquid manure - that'll be fun! -> Never tolerate intolerance :D

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism.

Perhaps the challenge here is that the good doctor is playing games...

All of the Fascists he studied are were also Male! Therefore all males are Fascists!!!

EVEN if the hogwash that justifies the 14 check marks is accepted, thats still a high school logical error.

If anything the media is Liberal controled... So are they fascist?

Lots of conservatives favour absolute minarchism as oppose to heavy government spending on the military. Only the so-called "neo-conservative" movement advocate such levels of military spending. Many conservatives favour freedom of the press and media, and most would probably be inclined to argue that a government controlled media would be a waste of tax money. To claim that conservatives support fraud and hate the arts is slander of the most base variety.

And by the way, when you come to oh-so-wonderful anti-fascist Britain, I warn you to prepare yourself for a nation where the publically-funded BBC dominates the respecitve media of both television and radio, where allegieance to queen and country are considered absolutely imperative, and the established Church of England is an integral part of government.

Hmm.......well......holes i can drive a truck through...since i do;t feel like putting all the Quotes in there....i will reply down here....

1: So, being fascist is being proud of your nation.....hmm..then every time you sing the national anthem you are fascist?

No, the problem is that real morality is subordinated to patriotism. Being proud of your nation is fine, pointless, but fine. When you use your claim to membership in your country to justify greater rights on your part and claim it demands certain beliefs of all of us THEN you're sliding into facism. I.E. "we have to support our president, even if we disagree with him," and "these immagrants are coming over here stealing our jobs." Before you point out that bush is pro-immigration, I'll counter with he is anti labor, letting Mexican's into the country drives down labor prices. He could have just raised minimum wages and enforced it to protect our borders, but instead he sold Texas out to big business. The conservative voters however are organizing into vigilante squads.


2: Torture? hmmm...i still think the word torture does not apply to what happened in Gitmo, and, even if it does...that is isolated and the perpretrators have been reprimanded.

What about our prison system? Fascism is not just a regime, it's a social syndrome. People, especially conservatives, are inclined to say that what happens to prisoners doesn't matter because they're prisoners. I.E. pro-torture in the name of security.

Your Gitmo comments however demonstrate a tremendous amount of willful ignorance.


3: The terrorists...they are people using violence and fear to impose a minority political ideology. We have identified outr main threat as Al Queda.

Total BS, much like the color warning system. Didn't you notice that the changes in the security level ALWAYS reflected dips in Bush's ratings but almost never actually reflected actual threats? It wasn't about keeping the country safe, it was about keeping it scared.


4: Or vilified. Thanks to american media coverage, people who have never seen combat are making judgements about soldiers. Soldiers aren't glamorized...they are respected. Why should we not respect those who CHOOSE to join the miltary and defend us against threats.....

No one is vilifying troops, I think you should probably listen to a little less Rush Limbaugh. The police also fall into this catagory. Have you noticed how low-profile police corruption trials tend to be these days? Probably not, they're low profile.

5: Rampant Sexism? Secretary of state is a female. Several members of the cabinet are female, several senators are female....this argument holds about as much water as a tea strainer.

Yes, but his base is made up of people who believe strongly in well defined roles for men and women. Do you remember his suggestion that marriage should be encouraged as an alternative to welfare? His supporters lambasted Hillary because she still had a career and they adore Laura because she quit her job and stands around with that plastic Stepford-Wife smile on her face all the time. It's not just a matter of a few token appointments on his part, it's the culture he engenders.


6: They say nothing bad becasue they arew afraid of a libel suit being put up against them. Thank you liberal america for makeing political correctness the norm.

Then explain all of the fake news releases that the president hands to the networks and they run it as if it was real news? It's propaganda. Clinton was hauled over the coals when he was in office, but now it seems that Fox is just an acronym for "Fellating Odious eXecutives." (Not a big reach, 'X' is a common abbreviation for executive)

7: And what is wron with raising the security when there may be an increased risk of attack. do you really want to be on a plane visiting grandma for the holidays when you sudeenly find yourself hurtling into a chemical plant, skyscraper, etc? They always had those threat levels, but they were never pertinent to the public becasue they oftentimes were not at risk.

Because nothing is actually being DONE about national security. Have these security level warnings made you change a single thing in your day to day life? Ever?

8: Hmm...i never saw this....what about the seperation of church and state? Haven;t we been taking down innocuous symbols from public places.....Just becasue a president affirms his religeous beliefs doesn't mean it is a theocracy or that ll decisions come directly from the bible...kerry was an avowed catholic.....

Yes, the courts that the republican Congress and White House hate so much are the last remaining obstacle to ripping down the seperation of church and state and they've been working damn hard to strip them of their authority.

9: Would you like to post a source before becoming so rhetorical. We jsut passed the clean air act. We invesitgate questionable corporate policies (enron). Large business hold more economic clout than small mom and pop drugstores. You have to be large to havve the capital to produce the goods you find so precious en masse.

The "clear skies initiative" that Bush put in effect did nothing to protect the environment from corporations. It was a roll-back of the clear air act

10: The social security fix is the best thing we have come up with yet. libs and conservs alike say that soc sec needs to be changed, however everyone is whining without bringing a viable solution to the table, at least bush has stepped up to the plate on this one.

Bush's plan won't fix it. He's admitted as such. The best defense he can come up with is "well if the Democrats don't come up with a way to fix it I'm just going to go ahead and wreck it." It's so obvious to anyone who can look at his plan with an unbiased view that it will do nothing to help it. If you want to help it all you have to do is raise the cap on the payroll tax. You know... Like Reagan did.

11: Hmm....once again this holds no water....government spending on education is at an all time high....and don;t say it is liberal thought becasue congress is republican right now. That "slur" is directed at people who indoctrine their students rather than teaching them, which, thankfully are few.

The No Child Left Behind Act? It's just an excuse to privatize poor schools. And privatization, while costly, doesn't actually help education.

Also, if you want proof of the Conservatives derision of Academics just take a look at the law that's going through in Florida trying to make it so that you can sue a professor for disagreeing with you. Are conservatives really such big babies that they want to sue for having their feelings hurt or is it just the Republican party trying to tear down the only people who can point out how awful they are?

12: How do they have unlimited power.....i have yet to see any american detained and against his will. please provide a specific example and i may change my view.

13: Once again i dont; see your argument that they are "protecting each other from accountability" what did appointing condi have to do with anything unscrupulous?

14: This is the most laughable one yet. Exit polls are garbage. Conservatives tend to be older and tend to beleive that it is a secret ballot for a reason, therfore who you voted for is your biusiness, not some punk who comes up to you and says "so, who did u vote for?"[/QUOTE]

Domici, fascism is necessarily dictatorship. Or, supporting dictatorship. We don't have a dictatorship in the US. We don't have people supporting a dictatorship, no matter how loudly you proclaim it.

First of all, kudos to Plutophobia for standing up and talking about this issue. If you live in the US, I know how annoying it can be to have all your ideas shot down by others calling you a communist, or some other leftist-fearing term.

EDIT: God. I just sounded like a paranoid freak, didn't I? No. I'm not a conspiracy-theorist, but I don't doubt our government does some fucked up shit we don't know about.
No, you're not paranoid. There's plenty of exmaples of the US doing some messed up covert operations (Grenada, Past friendships with Suddam and Bin Laden etc. etc.) They pick their friends solely on how those friends can help them economically or politically. Economically, many countries supply the US with revevue (Being friendly to Iraq and Canada while they were willing to trade oil for example). Politically, they use other nations to promote their right-wing, capitalist ideals all over the world (Hiring Bin Laden to fight the Soviets, Hiring Suddam to crush the leftist ideas brewing in Iran). The moment one nations goes against any of the ideals on Plutophobia's list, those nations become part of the "Axis of Evil". The moment Canda refused Iraq and Missile Defence, they start "postponing" trips, and don't recieve our calls. Being a canadaian, I can say that this is absolute lunacy. We've been stuck for almost 15 years, trying to settle the softwood lumber issue, but the US refuses to let us export to them, which totally goes against NAFTA! We've waited fior those many years, patiently, and yet when we refuse to join with their crazy ideals, they have a hissy fit! Every single thing on Plutophobia's list is correct, and I'm willling to give exmaples if someone demands them, but for now, I think my reply is long enough.

Ummm would that be like the big fisheries argument just off Victoria, and the seizure of boats, or would that be like any number of mutual disagreements (Prescription drugs, health care) that have never been adequately resolved between our two nations?

Many, Many Conservatives opposed NAFTA and GATT, but the Lumber issue is driven by a strong lobby in Washington D.C., it's domestic politics interfering with international agreements-something that, IIRC, happens on your side of the border as well. (Been a while since I could pick up CBC. You guys must've stopped pointing the transmitters south... how did "North of 60" end? I missed the Series Finale, and paying 20 bucks a month for Cable to watch three hours of teevee a week isn't worth it to me.)

If anything the media is Liberal controled... So are they fascist?
Are you saying that privately held television stations and newspapers that have to agree with their parent company and have an editorial line forced on them by mostly conservatively-sided multinational corporations are Liberal leaning?

Someone has heard the same false statement too many times, I think.

And yet Conservatives so violently oppose feminism.

Yes, we are anti-feminism because feminists try to take away men's rights. I have no problem with females having normal jobs, or doing things that guys do, but I heard that in Sweden, feminists are trying to push for a tax on top of the 75% income tax or whatever they pay to pay for battered wives, even if the guy does not harm his wife. They villify the male, and agreeing with it is like agreeing with the rascist Affirmative Action.


Total BS, much like the color warning system. Didn't you notice that the changes in the security level ALWAYS reflected dips in Bush's ratings but almost never actually reflected actual threats? It wasn't about keeping the country safe, it was about keeping it scared.

No, I did not see the color alert change to Red last week when Bush hit an all-time low in his approval rating, or it change during the elections when he had an all-time low back then, or any other time he had a dip... If you want to make a point, back it up with CREDIBLE EVIDENCE, not SPECULATION.

Someone (I think he was british) said that "If you aren't a Socialist by the age of eighteen, you have no heart-but if you are still a socialist by the age of forty, you have no brain."


It was Winston Churchill and he said "If you are young, and not liberal, then you don't have a heart. If you are old, and not conservative, then you don't have a brain."

Remember RB it's a vast conspiracy by us conservatives to eat their babies.
*munch munch munch*
*looks up from baby corpse *

Conservatism, taken to its extreme form, is fascism. Or authoritarianism, if you don't want to get dangerously close to invoking Godwin in this thread.

Doubleplus Check

I'm guessing you meant to be ironic there?

Are you saying that privately held television stations and newspapers that have to agree with their parent company and have an editorial line forced on them by mostly conservatively-sided multinational corporations are Liberal leaning?

Someone has heard the same false statement too many times, I think.

HUH??? Dan Rather was canned (Politely) for a fabrication that any simpleton with Microsoft Windows could prove was a fabrication. Other than that, There haven't been many firings for what you're alleging, unless you can provide a source to back it up... in fact, there HAVE been firings of Conservatives who step over the line-in opinion pieces.

Media owners care (censored)-all about anything as petty as politics-they're much more interested in making scads of cash by selling sensation (O.J., Terry Schiavo, Rodney King...), even at the expense of actual issues that affect real people's lives in a direct and often painful way. If what you are saying were true, the National Media would have glomped onto the washington state Governor's Race Election Scandal, since it makes the American Left look really bad.

Hullo?? CBS?? NBC??? CNN???? nope, not a peep. Not even Fox-News.

(Put this way: eighteen hundered more votes than voters in King County, put Chris Gregoire over the top in a hand-recount full of some downright scary errors-that the people who benefitted from it claim was an example of cleanliness and ethics. Foxes and Hen-houses...)

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." Check.
I can't take one step without seeing a picket sign with Bush on one side and Hitler on the other and hearing "American Idiot" time after time on the radio. I wonder..

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc." Check.
An innocent woman was recently starved to death just to prove a point. Hmm..

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc." Check. Who are "The Terrorists"? This administration hasn't been very specific, but there are zillions of 'em, and we apparently have to kill them all before they kill us.
I seem to have haunting memories of theslogan "anyone but Bush".

Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Check. Never before has the military ever been so glorified.
I see judges whipe thier ass with what governors, mayors, and even congressmen say..

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy." Check. While women are not told their job is to produce healthy children, their rights are definitely restricted by this administration.
This is just dumb, Ann Rice on one side Hillary Clinton on the other. You weren't even trying dude..

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common." This one is not currently the case, although it should be noted that our media consists of a bunch of pansy little girls who cannot form opinions, say anything bad about anyone, or point out when anyone in our government is being evil.
Control of the media? wow, I never realised our president loved to be flame broiled and receive billions of dollars over a two-hour lie called Farreinheit 9/11.

Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." CHECK. "The Terrorists will strike possibly within the next few weeks... we expect them to try something around the election... or Christmas... We'll just raise the threat level to be safe."
Terrorists? But what about those Chri-Chri-CHRISTIANS! We have to take a man that was setenced to death row for murder off because one of the jurers was reading that fucking Bible!! (This actually happend I swear to you.)

Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions." Check. Faith-Based initiatives anyone?
Or a lack theroff. Pinkos seem to be pretty religious about thier ahtiesm..

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." CHECK +1. This government has shown raving support for business, giving corporations more rights than even individual people get, allowing them to ransack the environment, and changing the tax code blantantly to favor corporations and the wealthy.
The fact that John Kerry owns Heinz coporation is witheld though..

Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed." 1/2 check, because it hasn't really come up. Note, however, that Bush's Big Social Security Fix is to cut benefits.
This sounds more like how liberals are taking away men's job more and more with newer and might i add shittier technology. I have no use for an Ipod or Mp3 but yet you still find it nesscary to shove it in my face every given oppurtunity and find inventive ways to force me to buy these products or struggle in the common wealth.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts." Check, as per the slur "white tower College liberals".
But God forbid we should say something that might offend someone! Hell i got my ass handed to me by a pack of wild liberals for saying i knew a terrorist.

1: He wants to be a pilot and is Islamic.
2: He's a trucker and if i remember correctly they said they were going to use trucks to get here.
3: He didn't tell me his name, he didn't ask for mine, and everytume i gave him somekind of information that MAY even be useful to a terrorist like where ceartain places are or how peoples act to differant things he mutterd "that's good to know".
4: He's a nice guy and frankly i hope he's a terrorist. I hate you people.

I was trolled down and had my butt hauled for being a "rascist".

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations." Check. Patriot act, anyone?
Sounds like those rebel judges.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders." Check. What does this administration do when it needs a new Secretary of State? It picks Condoleeza Rice! What did her former job as National Security Advisor have to do with international diplomacy, beside also serving on the National Security Council? Who do they pick to run the EPA? Mike Leavitt, former Utah governor who oversaw some of the worst deregulation and lowering of protections that left the state open to be wantonly ravaged by corporate interest. For the Environmental PROTECTION Agency!
Where as the honost goverments just take money on the side from evil dictators like the oil for food drive correct?

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections." Doubleplus Check: Why did exit polls show that Kerry won?
After five-thousand recounts by Gore, petty attempts at trying to impeach our current leader, and overall being a party of dipshits, i have no reason to believe the polls were rigged. People just arn't THAT stupid.

Do me a favor, shutup. You guys seriously must think we're primates or something to believe half the crap you say. Like Ron Regan, he talks out his asshole and i'm sure his father would put a gun to his head if he'd known what his son became.

REAL democrats are the likes of JFK and Martin Luthor King. People you could never hope to be like, cause you're too damn proud and will do anything just to get back at the conservatives. You sold your soul to win the battle, and you ended up losing anyway. FYI bitch, your party sucks and if they had any sense left in them they'd whipe you all off and start with a clean slate of me and my Canadian friend Pete to represent democrats for the next election.

I think we could win too, with my nineth grade education (Just beating our current president's.) and Pete's fuzzy beard, there'd be no stopping us! :p

Sounds like those rebel judges.

Care to explain that one?

No, no, no - and I'll object any barcoding and so forth... there once was a time when people got numbers on their forearms: That must never happen again!

What about if the number was on a card linked to a database with theoretically any amount of information on it, and you got a heavy penalty for not registering?

Everybody's being too polarized by everything. Don't just say you are for or against something because you consider yourself a liberal or conservative and that's what liberals and conservatives do...

That being said, Bush seems to be making a Nixon-esque power grab. However, he is probably not a fascist. He just has friends in big corporations whose interests he wants to protect. (It's no coincidence that Cheney was once the CEO of Halliburton.)

I can't take one step without seeing a picket sign with Bush on one side and Hitler on the other and hearing "American Idiot" time after time on the radio. I wonder..


An innocent woman was recently starved to death just to prove a point. Hmm..


I seem to have haunting memories of theslogan "anyone but Bush".


I see judges whipe thier ass with what governors, mayors, and even congressmen say..


This is just dumb, Ann Rice on one side Hillary Clinton on the other. You weren't even trying dude..


Control of the media? wow, I never realised our president loved to be flame broiled and receive billions of dollars over a two-hour lie called Farreinheit 9/11.


Terrorists? But what about those Chri-Chri-CHRISTIANS! We have to take a man that was setenced to death row for murder off because one of the jurers was reading that fucking Bible!! (This actually happend I swear to you.)


Or a lack theroff. Pinkos seem to be pretty religious about thier ahtiesm..


The fact that John Kerry owns Heinz coporation is witheld though..


This sounds more like how liberals are taking away men's job more and more with newer and might i add shittier technology. I have no use for an Ipod or Mp3 but yet you still find it nesscary to shove it in my face every given oppurtunity and find inventive ways to force me to buy these products or struggle in the common wealth.


But God forbid we should say something that might offend someone! Hell i got my ass handed to me by a pack of wild liberals for saying i knew a terrorist.

1: He wants to be a pilot and is Islamic.
2: He's a trucker and if i remember correctly they said they were going to use trucks to get here.
3: He didn't tell me his name, he didn't ask for mine, and everytume i gave him somekind of information that MAY even be useful to a terrorist like where ceartain places are or how peoples act to differant things he mutterd "that's good to know".
4: He's a nice guy and frankly i hope he's a terrorist. I hate you people.

I was trolled down and had my butt hauled for being a "rascist".


Sounds like those rebel judges.


Where as the honost goverments just take money on the side from evil dictators like the oil for food drive correct?


After five-thousand recounts by Gore, petty attempts at trying to impeach our current leader, and overall being a party of dipshits, i have no reason to believe the polls were rigged. People just arn't THAT stupid.

Do me a favor, shutup. You guys seriously must think we're primates or something to believe half the crap you say. Like Ron Regan, he talks out his asshole and i'm sure his father would put a gun to his head if he'd known what his son became.

REAL democrats are the likes of JFK and Martin Luthor King. People you could never hope to be like, cause you're too damn proud and will do anything just to get back at the conservatives. You sold your soul to win the battle, and you ended up losing anyway. FYI bitch, your party sucks and if they had any sense left in them they'd whipe you all off and start with a clean slate of me and my Canadian friend Pete to represent democrats for the next election.

I think we could win too, with my nineth grade education (Just beating our current president's.) and Pete's fuzzy beard, there'd be no stopping us! :p

I agree primarily because my list of comparisions got screwed up. But that case with the bible is stupid (cnn.com) just because they are religious means that they cant use their moral ethics like other people.

Fascist Italy has been the only true ever fascist state - Fascism is an aggresively radical right wing defined by its very *lack* of any kind of manifesto or doctrine.

As Mussolini said, fascism is 'anything you want it to be'. So conservatives (I'm a brit, and an active member of the (old) Labour party so I dislike the conservatives as much as the next leftie) are not fascists, becuase it would be near impossible to recreate as it was such a personal thing to ol' Duce.

First of all: Wow! I'm stunned!!! Very good post indeed. In the following I'll check whether Germany has learned its lesson ;)


Nope.


Nope.


Nope.


Nope. Although we still built the best U-boats, rifles and battle tanks (wonder why that is - guess we like to sell them or something) and I like to play loud military marches when doing the spring-cleaning - mmmh, shiny objects and clean windows :D


Nope. Although it would make things easier with the XX-chromosomed people if they only realized that there's nothing left for us guys once they take over (and then still complain about our last areas of retreat)


Hell no! Although I'd like to be able to buy my computer games with all the blood and gore effects and not the lame PG-13 family approved version...


Mmh. Got the feeling that this is a point where we shouldn't copy just anything from our friend and ally between Canada and Mexico...


Not really - the only intertwinition, intertwination, intertwinivation... thing intertwined is that once you're a member of a government-acknowledged church, church tax is automatically deducted from your income.


Nope, although some big businesses profited a lot from their role in Nazi-Germany.


No. Although the unions have a hard time to cope with the changes taking place in the European Union...


Mmh... no!


No, no, no - and I'll object any barcoding and so forth... there once was a time when people got numbers on their forearms: That must never happen again!
I'm against the death penalty no matter what because no person has the right to take another persons life - sinking to the same level doesn't help at all and don't you start with the deterring argument: If that worked, there'd be no murders in the States with the dp.


After looking up Cronyism I can state that our media is more than happy to bring to public notice anything like it.


Definitely not and I haven't missed a single election yet and planning to participate in the future!

Wohoo! Now we just have to strip all those neo-nazis naked and start chasing them around the country and spray paint them with liquid manure - that'll be fun! -> Never tolerate intolerance :D

Are you an ethnocent german like me? I too hate the NN and cant believe that the courts allow them to get a permit to march down Jewish cities or other areas highly populated by Jews, and I dont understand the white minority thing because the whites are the majority unless asia has 4 billion people.

Now this is fascism: State is everything
This is conservatism: King is everything (maybe nobility too)

Care to explain that one?

I'll take this one.

Example: Florida Supreme Court ignoring Florida statutes outlining the number of days for a recount to proceed.

Also see Activist Judges

Generally refers to judges who try to legislate from the bench.

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy. The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." Check.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc." Check.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc." Check. Who are "The Terrorists"? This administration hasn't been very specific, but there are zillions of 'em, and we apparently have to kill them all before they kill us.

Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Check. Never before has the military ever been so glorified.

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy." Check. While women are not told their job is to produce healthy children, their rights are definitely restricted by this administration.

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common." This one is not currently the case, although it should be noted that our media consists of a bunch of pansy little girls who cannot form opinions, say anything bad about anyone, or point out when anyone in our government is being evil.

Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." CHECK. "The Terrorists will strike possibly within the next few weeks... we expect them to try something around the election... or Christmas... We'll just raise the threat level to be safe."

Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions." Check. Faith-Based initiatives anyone?

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." CHECK +1. This government has shown raving support for business, giving corporations more rights than even individual people get, allowing them to ransack the environment, and changing the tax code blantantly to favor corporations and the wealthy.

Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed." 1/2 check, because it hasn't really come up. Note, however, that Bush's Big Social Security Fix is to cut benefits.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts." Check, as per the slur "white tower College liberals".

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations." Check. Patriot act, anyone?

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders." Check. What does this administration do when it needs a new Secretary of State? It picks Condoleeza Rice! What did her former job as National Security Advisor have to do with international diplomacy, beside also serving on the National Security Council? Who do they pick to run the EPA? Mike Leavitt, former Utah governor who oversaw some of the worst deregulation and lowering of protections that left the state open to be wantonly ravaged by corporate interest. For the Environmental PROTECTION Agency!

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections." Doubleplus Check: Why did exit polls show that Kerry won?

Though it may not be facist now, another tragedy and I think the perfect storm of conditions would be in place for fascism.

Somebody earlier said something about "American Idiot" being crammed down their throats. It is being crammed down our throats, but I want to point that the reason for that is that Green Day is not a true punk band, with or withoput "American Idiot." They are on a huge label, and whatever they release will get crammed down our throats, at least for a little while. They are what you call Pop-Punk, and however dissident their songs sound, it is because they are the last on the bandwagon and are making up for it with their spiteful exuberance.

Want real Punk musiuc? try The Clash. Best band ever.

I once said Plutophobia was Skapedroe light but this thread is pretty much the same level as Skapedroe. I still maintain they are the same person. I'm also getting that sinking feeling that they are Moveon.org plants. I read an article about Moveon in which the group said they use forum just like this to get their message out.
Be fun it they was doin this.

The Democrats point out other peoples flaws...

But when someone points out theres its sexism, raceism, a intrusion on peoples rights...
BUT NEVER CRITISISM.


Its ok for Democrats to speak out against something...

But when a Republican dose it they are evil, biasd, uncareing...
BUT NEVER PATRIOTIC.


The Democrats could get away with anything...

But when someone ells dose it every Democrat jumps on them...
BUT IGNORES THE TIMES THEY DID IT.


Democratic party leaders say they wish to tax the rich...

When they really mean 2 income familys...
THEY DONT WANT TO TAX THEM SELVES.




Here are some facts:

The population of the US that is in the bottem 50% of wages...
PAY 0% TAXES.

The most popular political party of the people who make up the top 20% of wages in the US.
IS THE DEMOCRATIC ONE.

Democrats say that Bush lied about WMDs being in Iraq...
EVEN THOUGH CLINTON, GORE, & KERRY AGRED WITH BUSH.

Democrats say we are only fighting in Iraq and not in Afghanistan any more.
WHEN WE STILL HAVE TROOPS IN AFGHANISTAN.

Democrats say that the EU economy is better then ours, with pride.
WHEN ITS ONE NATION VS. HALF OF A CONTINENT.


Howzat?

The Democrats point out other peoples flaws...

But when someone points out theres its sexism, raceism, a intrusion on peoples rights...
BUT NEVER CRITISISM.


Its ok for Democrats to speak out against something...

But when a Republican dose it they are evil, biasd, uncareing...
BUT NEVER PATRIOTIC.


The Democrats could get away with anything...

But when someone ells dose it every Democrat jumps on them...
BUT IGNORES THE TIMES THEY DID IT.


Democratic party leaders say they wish to tax the rich...

When they really mean 2 income familys...
THEY DONT WANT TO TAX THEM SELVES.




Here are some facts:

The population of the US that is in the bottem 50% of wages...
PAY 0% TAXES.

The most popular political party of the people who make up the top 20% of wages in the US.
IS THE DEMOCRATIC ONE.

Democrats say that Bush lied about WMDs being in Iraq...
EVEN THOUGH CLINTON, GORE, & KERRY AGRED WITH BUSH.

Democrats say we are only fighting in Iraq and not in Afghanistan any more.
WHEN WE STILL HAVE TROOPS IN AFGHANISTAN.

Democrats say that the EU economy is better then ours, with pride.
WHEN ITS ONE NATION VS. HALF OF A CONTINENT.


Howzat?
With the exception of a few statements, I'd say it sounds like the Democrats and Republicans. The bottom 50% pay 0% of the taxes? I have to call bullshit on that one.

I once said Plutophobia was Skapedroe light but this thread is pretty much the same level as Skapedroe. I still maintain they are the same person. I'm also getting that sinking feeling that they are Moveon.org plants. I read an article about Moveon in which the group said they use forum just like this to get their message out.
Be fun it they was doin this.
Don't forget the always wonderful, Democracynow.org

I R CONSERVATIVE!

I IS THEN FACIST!

I NEEDS MORE MONORITIES TO CLEANSE!

Not all Fascists are conservative, if you look past what people say and examine more closely what they do. Fascist societies have seemed to have rigid chaste systems, outrageuos taxation and government spending, and belligerent foreign policy to name a few characteristsics. Modern Amercia is starting to exhibit some of these traits, in both parties. Liberals have seemed to concern themselves with telling people what to say and where, which is a cornerstone of fascism.

The Conservatives, on the other hand, are an interesting bunch. Bush, for example, is a very fiscally liberal politician. Spending under Bush is much, mmuch larger than it was under Clinton, which is odd because Conservative dogma in the early 90s tended to lean towards a smaller, less costly government. Now it looks like both of them are for big government, which disturbs me on a number of levels. So essentially, if you want to call Conservatives fascists, you need to call Liberals fascists too. There isn't much of a difference anymore.

And the freaky part is this isn't the first time this has happened either: 160 years ago the Democrats were the party of the South, and the Republicans were the social progressives. Some Republicans really like invoking Abe Lincoln, but were he alive today, you bet your ass he'd be much closer to a Democrat. After the civil war, the parties started reaching out to each other, and in about 140 years, they managed to switch places. I think it's happening again, but in a different sense. Instead of the demographic changing, its the politics.

Now it looks like both of them are for big government, which disturbs me on a number of levels. So essentially, if you want to call Conservatives fascists, you need to call Liberals fascists too. There isn't much of a difference anymore.

The difference between the two parties disappeared many decades ago.

The difference between the two parties disappeared many decades ago.
Horrifying isn't it?

You can alwase rely on Melkor to inject some logic into a debate.

That was a funny list. I'm off to go find a Political Scientist (tm) that can bolster my agenda with pseudo-intellectual rhetoric.


It wouldn't happen. I'm a political scientist, and any credible political scientist would be objective on this issue. We in the field have been watching America for the past four years with the same fears that this PS postulated. America does indeed look far too much like fascism. It hasn't gone all the way, but it is safe to conclude that it is at too high of a level. Cultural liberalism will keep it from becoming a dictatorship, but we still should be careful not to let it get any farther.

I don't believe Conservatives to be fascists, but too much groupthink and it could become a reality.

The thing you have to remember, though, is that any groupthink, no matter what it says, will turn into fascism if the party line is applied to every last decision. You could be the most liberal, hippe-loving, tree-hugging, tax spending liberals on the planet, but I count you as fascists when you start forcing that premise on me and everyone else.

With the exception of a few statements, I'd say it sounds like the Democrats and Republicans. The bottom 50% pay 0% of the taxes? I have to call bullshit on that one.


You lose, now take the pile.



And I geuss you agred with the rest of it ehh?

Don't forget the always wonderful, Democracynow.org
Is there even info on that site? When i went i didn't see no links just a bold attempt at every corner trying to get me to give them money.

You lose, now take the pile.



And I geuss you agred with the rest of it ehh?
Beni geheh 1628 yetecff gegeiyf [pbi.
Yes, but I still don't trust that 50% pay 0%.

What I find interesting is the lack, in the definition of fascism, of what seems to constitute a large part of real fascist movements. Thinking specifically of the traditionally "Big-three" of fascism - Italy, Germany and Japan, despite the fact that many dispute the label of Japanese fascism - there was one common thread that's completely missing from these "14 Points" (and Wilson rolls over in his grave....).

Namely, that each one had a past archetype the fascists pointed to as an ideal to return to. Note that SS uniforms had Nordic runes and the promotion of the Aryan race in Nazi Germany. In Italy Mussolini would speak of returning to the Roman empire. And it seems Bushido and the Samurai kind-of-thinking didn't leave Japanese militarism until after the whole nation was picked up and shaked apart, and rebuilt.

Each of these fascist groups told their followers, "We were great, we've lost what makes us great, we have to return to that which made us great" - even if it involves creative exploitation of history. From this point, I'd say the greatest proto-fascist in American politics was Theodore Roosevelt.

Back to the other 14 Points, I'm curious to find a real answer to the problem proposed by suggesting America is fascist because it suffers from rampant racism. Condoleeza Rice (apologies if I misspel) is an excellent example of how this particular idea is crap. And altering the argument to suggest America is sexist because Laura Bush gave up a job for her husband is a Straw Man or Red Herring, or both - in any case it doesn't refute the fact that Ms Rice (and Karen Hughes, as undersecretary of state for public diplomacy) are female and are in positions of power and influence. Or that, by offending the "lesser" sex (assuming in this case sexism means treating women worse than men) a powerful man can be brought down (Larry Summers).

As for church and state intertwined - the fact that there's a controversy over how involved the Catholic Church was in Nazi Germany might suggest that established religion wasn't all that well tied Nazi policies. And putting "Gott mit uns" on your belt buckle doesn't make you a diehard Christian, especially when your insignia are representative of a pagan society.

I'm glad to see people treat this thread like the trash it is. The US is hardly a fascist state, people can whine all they like. Especially trying to pigeon-hole specific US policies or personnel into some formula - that may or may not completely define fascism - just ridiculous.

I am not going to take time to read this entire thread, nor even the entire first post. Facists are conservative, by definition. However, conservatives are not facist, it doesn't work like that.

P.S. I'm a liberal, but not a socialist or a democrat.
Stereotypes suck.
:D

You can do it just mentally, or you can follow patterns. Certain letters of the alphabet are more common and you can set an algorithm to look for those ("frequency analysis").

Or, you can do searches for certain keywords... Running it through every encryption possible, organizing the results according to certain 'hits', which are identified by whether or not they have certain keywords. That's called a "Kasiski Test."

The same idea is applied with "Differential cryptanalysis", which applies different ciphers to encrypted data, to determine which 'differences' between ciphers occur most often. This narrows things down as well.

There's also even more complex methods than that, but that's just some of the basics.

But frequency analysis does not work in a polyalphabetic environment only mono alphabetic ciphers like the alphine (simple example of an alphine with only shift is the cesar cipher) (along with your “Kasiski Test” substring test)

Also want to note that frequency analysis does not work in lets say a play fair environment

As far as differential cryptanalysis you may want to look at the effect of that on using elliptical algorithms ;)

There are plenty of “unbreakable” ciphers out there as well but key distribution tends to be a major issue with this (can guarantee that this forums does not use this)

The site could be using hash tables though … with a true random number generator (unlikely) there would be NO pattern to analyze … then you have to wory about key interception which could be reduced using a key distro server and a nonce


Anyways I am going off … if you would like to discuss this more I am more then willing too … I could use some practice for my speech on distributed hardware resources and hardware control levels (gets into more the idea of ipsec though … but yeah)

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy. The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." Check.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc." Check.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc." Check. Who are "The Terrorists"? This administration hasn't been very specific, but there are zillions of 'em, and we apparently have to kill them all before they kill us.

Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Check. Never before has the military ever been so glorified.

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy." Check. While women are not told their job is to produce healthy children, their rights are definitely restricted by this administration.

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common." This one is not currently the case, although it should be noted that our media consists of a bunch of pansy little girls who cannot form opinions, say anything bad about anyone, or point out when anyone in our government is being evil.

Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." CHECK. "The Terrorists will strike possibly within the next few weeks... we expect them to try something around the election... or Christmas... We'll just raise the threat level to be safe."

Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions." Check. Faith-Based initiatives anyone?

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." CHECK +1. This government has shown raving support for business, giving corporations more rights than even individual people get, allowing them to ransack the environment, and changing the tax code blantantly to favor corporations and the wealthy.

Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed." 1/2 check, because it hasn't really come up. Note, however, that Bush's Big Social Security Fix is to cut benefits.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts." Check, as per the slur "white tower College liberals".

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations." Check. Patriot act, anyone?

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders." Check. What does this administration do when it needs a new Secretary of State? It picks Condoleeza Rice! What did her former job as National Security Advisor have to do with international diplomacy, beside also serving on the National Security Council? Who do they pick to run the EPA? Mike Leavitt, former Utah governor who oversaw some of the worst deregulation and lowering of protections that left the state open to be wantonly ravaged by corporate interest. For the Environmental PROTECTION Agency!

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections." Doubleplus Check: Why did exit polls show that Kerry won?

How many times you gonna post this?

My rebuttal from another thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8567023&postcount=46

I am not going to take time to read this entire thread, nor even the entire first post. Facists are conservative, by definition. However, conservatives are not facist, it doesn't work like that.

P.S. I'm a liberal, but not a socialist or a democrat.
Stereotypes suck.
:D
Fascists are radical. They don't need be conservative. Consider the ELF front. Fascist environmental leftists. :(

Conservatism is related to fascism?

What a revelation!

This is how it was explained to me my first course in Political Science:


Non-democratic regimes--|--------------------Democratic regimes-------------------|--Non-democratic regimes

Communism--------|----Liberal/Socialist--------Center--------Coservative/Capitalist-----|--------Fascism


Both ideologies, when pushed to excess, create Non-democratic regimes: "Conservatism"-fascism, "Liberalism"-Communism. Only when their tempered with centrism can either left wing or right wing politics exist in a democratic state. I see nothing indicative--or surprising--about any similarities between a right wing regime and fascism.

Conservatism is related to fascism?

What a revelation!

This is how it was explained to me my first course in Political Science:


Non-democratic regimes--|--------------------Democratic regimes-------------------|--Non-democratic regimes

Communism--------|----Liberal/Socialist--------Center--------Coservative/Capitalist-----|--------Fascism


Both ideologies, when pushed to excess, create Non-democratic regimes: "Conservatism"-fascism, "Liberalism"-Communism. Only when their tempered with centrism can either left wing or right wing politics exist in a democratic state. I see nothing indicative--or surprising--about any similarities between a right wing regime and fascism.


That is how I learned it as well :p

And indeed this is how it is taught within GCSE History. Nice to see knowledge progressing backwards through the educational system...
....Quick opinion: no, Conservatives are not fascists, although they seem to be sharing increasing common idealogies. Fascists, as non-democratic peoples, feel they have the power to make the lives of ordinary people hell to pursue their idealogy; I have yet to meet a Conservative quitew so disrespectful of not only social law but basic humanity, although the emphasis is on yet.
Sorry to slightly begin to rant there: i'm just fed up with a small group of fascists in my local area who have made my life, and the lives of my friends, far more difficult to live.

This is how it was explained to me my first course in Political Science:


Non-democratic regimes--|--------------------Democratic regimes-------------------|--Non-democratic regimes

Communism--------|----Liberal/Socialist--------Center--------Coservative/Capitalist-----|--------Fascism



The problem I have with this is the placing of fascism with regards to socialism and communism. It certainly seems that fascism is far right - but, considering socialism (on this chart) is left and capitalism on the right, I don't think fascism fits anywhere.

Consider the centralizing of industry and the massive public works programs Hitler and Mussolini installed. Though, in Nazi Germany, there were companies that provided goods and services, they largely were at the whim of the Nazi overseers. Indeed it's largely thanks to the centralization (re: Socialization) of industry that Nazi Germany was able to increase production throughout the war, especially of war materiel.

More interesting, however, is how the Nazis are considered stereotypical fascists - not as many people like to do work on Fascist Italy - and yet the very name of the Nazi party, Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, contains very non-right wing ideology. For one, "socialist" and "workers" right in the name. Assuming fascists are right-wing, it seems more likely to me that Hitler's Nazis were NOT fascists then

Human Rights Watch wrote a report (http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/13/afghan8577.htm), saying that prison abuse was "systemic", and that it was not only in Guantanamo or Abu Graib. The Chinese wrote a report (http://english.people.com.cn/200503/03/eng20050303_175406.html) that we view "human rights abuses" with a double standard, listing our human rights record until 2004. The U.N. released a similar report, and both Italy and France have denounced the U.S. on this issue, though they've written no reports.

In retaliation, the U.S. has also been voted off (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/05/03/us.human/) the U.N. Human Rights Commission.

Pardon me, but this is the same commission with such "shining" examples of human rights as Libya, Syria, Sudan, Cuba, and China.
Excuse me, but that vote had fuck all to do with human rights and everything to do with protecting their own asses.

I think its also an excellent example of why the UN is becoming less and less relevant.

They pick their friends solely on how those friends can help them economically or politically.
I have to ask, why single us out here.

Every country, that has ever existed, IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND, has done this. This isn't some trait solely exclusive to the United States and therefore a reason to look down on us. Everyone does it, everyone has been doing it, and everyone will be doing it, until the end of time.

"OMG The US supported Iraq."
Well no shit, so did France, Russia, etc, etc, etc. Wait, they still do. Hell, France helped Iraq build a nuclear reactor.

Either complain about everyone or don't complain at all. Stop singling us out for something every country does.

Note: Sorry if this seemed "angry". I just grow tired of seeing people go "OMFG the US picks its friends based on a little quid pro quo. Shun them"