NationStates Jolt Archive

From this thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=408557&page=1&pp=15

I find the modern Republican sentiment to be one of exclusion, not inclusion; if we're not with you, we're against you.

(After saying I'm leaving America, because of all the gun-toting, Bible-thumping, racists and imbeciles corrupting our government)
Anything I can do to help get you on your way, just let me know. :)

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Tell your story walking

Honestly I don't care Plutophobia... the more of you who move away the less opposition that libertarians face

We'll be glad to buy you, and Alec Baldwin, a one-way ticket out of America.

Cry me a fuckin river :)
(plays violin in background)

Thanks for making it easier for us conservatives to win :D

Ditto.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Buuuuuu Byyeeee!

I want you to leave. It'll be one less person who will vote for the Democrats.

well thank god for your exit.. dont let the door slam on your way out.

WE GADA BE YOUNAIDURS, NOT DUHVAIDERS.. YOUNAIDURS..

Apparently, you're right, Great Beer and Food. The Republicans are a group of exclusion. Either be Christian, buy a gun, display a flag, and get married to a woman, or GTFO.

Oh, and while we're at it. Let's take a look at one Conservative's opinion of Europe:
The US Postal Service would annihilate the "European Union". They are better armed and more agressive. certainly more courageous. And better able to make up there mind and just do something.

Gosh. I WONDER why Europe and most of the civilized world hates us? :confused:

Like I said before, this isn't America. This is

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/11/images/04new_map.jpg

Then stop crying that you want to leave...before trying to extracate the sliver from your neighbor's eye, taker the plank from your own....

Come live in europe then, we've got Civil Rights, and Coffee Houses, Nice little promenades, kids dont go mental as often and kill there classmates, Prague is lovely in spring, you can have whatever opinion you want as long as you don't shout it at people in the street.

Oh and good ice cream

There's plenty of room in the Republican Party for you. You just don't want to do it.

You can believe anything you want - just vote Republican.

And I don't want you to leave, but you keep saying you want to, so I already have the ticket to Borneo.

have you ever actually thumped a bible? it's quite satisfying.

Come live in europe then, we've got Civil Rights, and Coffee Houses, Nice little promenades, kids dont go mental as often and kill there classmates, Prague is lovely in spring, you can have whatever opinion you want as long as you don't shout it at people in the street.

Oh and good ice cream

I would argue about the ice cream. Ice cream in the US is much better. That, and what passes for a "scoop" of ice cream in Germany is substantially smaller than a golf ball.

So you equate the conservative message with the remarks of a few people on a message board, most likely none of which are employed by the RNC? Where is your critical thinking? Would you like the DNC message to be equated to your post in the above thread:

Because you [Americans] are the absolute epitome of hypocrasy, selfishness, and ignorance...

We're not dividing, we're united with your in your goal of leaving the country.

None of those people who said that they were leaving actually did, once again proving that democrats are liars


I have had ice cream in europe and the US, germany does a killer lemon sherbert like stuff that I have never found in the US, but my local (in Ohio) dairy store chain does the best chocolate ice cream

So you equate the conservative message with the remarks of a few people on a message board, most likely none of which are employed by the RNC?
Either supporters of the RNC or the Libertarians, which are sometimes just as insane. While I like the fact that Libertarians aren't Evangelical Fascists, their policies border on Anarchism.

Where is your critical thinking? Would you like the DNC message to be equated to your post in the above thread:

Because you [Americans] are the absolute epitome of hypocrasy, selfishness, and ignorance...
As a society. There are plenty of exceptions, but as a group, it's certainly true. There are many professors who are skeptical and cynical of American society. The fact that you're not allowed to come out and say, "AMERICA SUCKS" is part of the problem. When someone doesn't like things, instead of there being some kind of discussion or compromise, they're told they're unamerican traitors that should leave.

As someone else said, America used to be a land of freedom, founded on the principle of granting refugees of all nations asylum. As the Declaration of Independence says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

That statement goes beyond America. If it was discovered that a citizen lived in the same conditions that African children do, there would be protests. But instead, we're greedy and we convince ourselves of a philosophy which allows Africans to starve, while we live on high, fat and apathetic.

When the Industrial Revolution exploited American children and there were the very rich and the very poor, many of the rich believes in Social Darwinism. The idea is that charity works against society--that the best society is one with different classes. This Conservative policy of ignoring the problems of the world, which we could not benefit from by solving, seems to be a reflection of this social darwinism. We convince ourselves that there's nothing we can do or that they deserve to starve, for not working hard enough. When I see this, when I see the decadence and cold individualism of America, run by corporations and the rich, yes, I've lost faith in America.

When someone doesn't like things, instead of there being some kind of discussion or compromise, they're told they're unamerican traitors that should leave.

That's correct. Even, so they should stay, because how can there be change if no one criticises anything? If everyone who doesn't conform to the American mold left, we could never have another moving social change like the Civil Rights movement, or Women's Suffrage, since movements like these were started by people who were tired of the same. Even the Founding Fathers were radicals for going against the "divine right" concept and the "virtual representation" in Parliament. So stay, otherwise you are contributing to the very problems you rail against by weakening the opposition.

None of those people who said that they were leaving actually did, once again proving that democrats are liars

I have had ice cream in europe and the US, germany does a killer lemon sherbert like stuff that I have never found in the US, but my local (in Ohio) dairy store chain does the best chocolate ice cream

Which people? Give me names and social security numbers.

Oh, and Italian ice cream is the best in the Western world, you should try it. (I generally don't like Italian things much, I grew up in an Italian town in the UK, but the Ice cCream is an exception.)

Prague is lovely in spring,

Oh and good ice cream

Those parts are are at least true. As to the other, I don't speak the language well enough to know how the people there think, but I do know that there is a 20' stainless steel statue of a woman's legs with her Thong around her ankles in the middle of town so I imagine just about anything goes.

Either supporters of the RNC or the Libertarians, which are sometimes just as insane. While I like the fact that Libertarians aren't Evangelical Fascists, their policies border on Anarchism.


As a society. There are plenty of exceptions, but as a group, it's certainly true. There are many professors who are skeptical and cynical of American society. The fact that you're not allowed to come out and say, "AMERICA SUCKS" is part of the problem. When someone doesn't like things, instead of there being some kind of discussion or compromise, they're told they're unamerican traitors that should leave.

As someone else said, America used to be a land of freedom, founded on the principle of granting refugees of all nations asylum. As the Declaration of Independence says, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

That statement goes beyond America. If it was discovered that a citizen lived in the same conditions that African children do, there would be protests. But instead, we're greedy and we convince ourselves of a philosophy which allows Africans to starve, while we live on high, fat and apathetic.

When the Industrial Revolution exploited American children and there were the very rich and the very poor, many of the rich believes in Social Darwinism. The idea is that charity works against society--that the best society is one with different classes. This Conservative policy of ignoring the problems of the world, which we could not benefit from by solving, seems to be a reflection of this social darwinism. We convince ourselves that there's nothing we can do or that they deserve to starve, for not working hard enough. When I see this, when I see the decadence and cold individualism of America, run by corporations and the rich, yes, I've lost faith in America.


In light of this post....i would like you to move to africa and work 45 hours a week...and give all your money to charity...since you are so utterly compassionate....i give 10% of my annaul gross income to charity...(no i don;t give it to my church..i give it to various organizations that are involved in world health, aids research, disaster relief, etc).....when was the last time you gave more than a few paltry cents to a charity.....these big multinational corporations that you libs are always railing against contribute millions to causes such as those....yet you whine about how everyone is so selfish.....go do something useful...

Oh, and Italian ice cream is the best in the Western world, you should try it. (I generally don't like Italian things much, I grew up in an Italian town in the UK, but the Ice cCream is an exception.)

It's good, but I'm still rather fond of Hagendas White Chocolate Raspberry and/or their Chocolate Chocolate Cheesecake. The only thing I don't really like about European Ice Cream is that it tends to be a little softer than I like. Of course, I prefer to be able to eat Ice Cream with a fork. :rolleyes: I know that is weird.

Alec Baldwin promised to leave.
Kim Basinger promised to leave.
Then after they were asked again, they denied having said it.
But, we all know they want to leave.

http://www.helpthemleave.com/

Plutophobia

Fascism = Economic left-wing + social right-wing

The Nazis' real name was the National Socialist Party ... ring a bell? They were in favor of government control of assets, which REPUBLICANS are not.

Ergo, I dare say that the VAST MAJORITY of American Republicans are not Fascists.

Please look into the meaning of your labels before applying them.

I would argue about the ice cream. Ice cream in the US is much better. That, and what passes for a "scoop" of ice cream in Germany is substantially smaller than a golf ball.
Forget Germany; Italy has famously brilliant ice cream!

In light of this post....i would like you to move to africa and work 45 hours a week...and give all your money to charity...since you are so utterly compassionate....i give 10% of my annaul gross income to charity...(no i don;t give it to my church..i give it to various organizations that are involved in world health, aids research, disaster relief, etc).....when was the last time you gave more than a few paltry cents to a charity.....these big multinational corporations that you libs are always railing against contribute millions to causes such as those....yet you whine about how everyone is so selfish.....go do something useful...

Question for you, when you are talking to someone who DOES do that...who's joined the peace core, donates half their income to carefully selected charities, does volunteer work in their spare time, basically lives like Buddah and the Jesus combined...What's your excuse then?

As for myself, I'm not Jesus. Nor would I ever want to be; I'm lazy, insensitive, and pretty much a big prick in human form. I give money to the homeless when I feel like it, and tell them no when I feel like it, its entirely on a whim. I don't seek out charities to give to, I put quarters in bell ringer's buckets. I gave blood when I was low on money, not when there was some special need for it in the outside world. I'm a horrible person!

At the end of the day I would rather my government to do my caring for me. I don't have time to care about others, I'm too busy trying to support myself. We all live busy lives nowadays, no one has the luxary of kicking off for a few years to help out poor unfortunates in Africa, let alone our cities.

Charaties and volunteer work are all well and good for those who have time, or those who can withstand the stress of MAKING time in this unforgiving world. I myself would rather find that the poor, homeless, and unfortunate are taken care of by all of society as a matter of course, rather than relying on the superhuman efforts of a few dedicated Saints to make up for the fact that all of society doesn't give a damn.

I've been in slums and worked in the undesireable areas. I've been on both sides of the soup kitchen; too often we see one or two people doing the work of ten to help these people, because there are just SO MANY problems, and SO FEW have time and money to spend on them.

I cannot believe that there are simply untold millions just waiting to give to charities and help out who are not now. Its just unrealistic to expect that things will go anywhere but down if we pull out government funding. Where are all these reluctant saints you believe will rush to the aid of the poor and the needy? 'cause I haven't seen 'em, I haven't heard from them, I don't expect them to show.

The Nazis' real name was the National Socialist Party ... ring a bell? They were in favor of government control of assets, which REPUBLICANS are not.

It's also ironic that their mortal enemies were the Communists. Republicans in general are not fascist, the label only developed because of their right wing stand on social issues and strong support for the military, combined with patriotism. However, these things do not make a person fascist, they are only fascist if they let their patriotism degenerate in to belligerent nationalism and hatred along with repression. I don't really know any Republicans who this description fits. If it does, then they are not true Republicans.

In light of this post....i would like you to move to africa and work 45 hours a week...and give all your money to charity...since you are so utterly compassionate....i give 10% of my annaul gross income to charity...(no i don;t give it to my church..i give it to various organizations that are involved in world health, aids research, disaster relief, etc).....when was the last time you gave more than a few paltry cents to a charity.....these big multinational corporations that you libs are always railing against contribute millions to causes such as those....yet you whine about how everyone is so selfish.....go do something useful...
When I had a job, I had a habit of giving to charity, sporadically, rather than regularly. I'll walk by, someone asks, and I give them what they need. I see a collection bin in the bookstore, I buy a bag of jellybeans and drop it in. It's not your typical "pocket change", either. I usually gave almost whatever I had. Once, I gave 30 bucks to a Jewish charity.

And if everyone in America just gave 10%, there wouldn't need to be a Mother Theresa.

Plutophobia

Fascism = Economic left-wing + social right-wing

The Nazis' real name was the National Socialist Party ... ring a bell? They were in favor of government control of assets, which REPUBLICANS are not.
Actually fascism was right-wing on economics. Nazism was influenced by fascism, but was not fascism itself. If you want to look at historical states that would be truly descibed as "fascist" look at Mussolini's Italy and Pinochet's Chile.

As for the Nazi=socialist thing, I think that it is well explained here (http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/faq.php#hitler).

Let's start with the second part first. Some respondents confuse Nazism, a political party platform, with fascism, which is a particular structure of government. Fascism legally sanctions the persecution of a particular group within the country - political, ethnic, religious - whatever. So within Nazism there are elements of fascism, as well as militarism, capitalism, socialism etc. To tar all socialists with the national socialist brush is as absurd as citing Bill Gates and Augusto Pinochet in the same breath as examples of free market capitalism. Economically, Hitler was well to the right of Stalin. Post-war investigations led to a number of revelations about the cosy relationship between German corporations and the Reich. No such scandals subsequently surfaced in Russia, because Stalin had totally squashed the private sector. By contrast, once in power, the Nazis achieved rearmament through deficit spending. One of our respondents has correctly pointed out that they actively discouraged demand increases because they wanted infrastructure investment. Under the Reich, corporations were largely left to govern themselves, with the incentive that if they kept prices under control, they would be rewarded with government contracts. Hardly a socialist economic agenda ! We wonder if respondents who insist on uncritically accepting the Nazis' self-definition of 'socialist' would be quite as eager to believe that the German Democratic Republic was democratic. Incidentally, on fascism, no less an authority than Benito Mussolini declared: Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism, as it is a merge of state and corporate power.

And if everyone in America just gave 10%, there wouldn't need to be a Mother Theresa.

It's been posted and proven before: Americans give more money privately than anyone else in the world.

There are many professors who are skeptical and cynical of American society. The fact that you're not allowed to come out and say, "AMERICA SUCKS" is part of the problem. When someone doesn't like things, instead of there being some kind of discussion or compromise, they're told they're unamerican traitors that should leave.

That statement goes beyond America. If it was discovered that a citizen lived in the same conditions that African children do, there would be protests. But instead, we're greedy and we convince ourselves of a philosophy which allows Africans to starve, while we live on high, fat and apathetic.


First, people who live here say "AMERICA SUCKS" all the time. I'm not sure what part you live in, but it is very common for Americans to critic and complain about the state of things in our country.

Second, You are right about that statement applying to more than the U.S., but your application of it is somewhat mistaken. The statement say that humans are entitled to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". It doesn't say that all humans are entitled to be taken care of, provided for and supported. Those are individual responsibilities.

That doesn't take away our personal responsibility and moral obligation to others as decent, caring people, and I contribute regularly to support people in other, less materially wealthy, countries. But, no one has a right to what I contribute, it is a gift of love. Those who receive care they have not earned, receive a gift, not an entitlement.

At the end of the day I would rather my government to do my caring for me. I don't have time to care about others, I'm too busy trying to support myself. We all live busy lives nowadays, no one has the luxary of kicking off for a few years to help out poor unfortunates in Africa, let alone our cities.


This scares me to no end. I'm very sorry to hear that you feel that way. I suspect you are not alone, but I think it a sad state of affairs when we lack the brotherly love to reach out to and help those within our reach.

It doesn't say that all humans are entitled to be taken care of, provided for and supported. Those are individual responsibilities.

That doesn't take away our personal responsibility and moral obligation to others as decent, caring people, and I contribute regularly to support people in other, less materially wealthy, countries. But, no one has a right to what I contribute, it is a gift of love. Those who receive care they have not earned, receive a gift, not an entitlement. -------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I couldn't have said it better.

This scares me to no end. I'm very sorry to hear that you feel that way. I suspect you are not alone, but I think it a sad state of affairs when we lack the brotherly love to reach out to and help those within our reach.

He did not say he felt that way, he simply described the reality of life for most peopple in the Western world. They are too busy dealing with their own lives to do anything about the lives of others.

This is one liberal also asking you to leave so we can stop listening to your whining. You talk about being uniters, but I do want to point out that you are the one who originally separated yourself.

There have always been a lot of things wrong with America and they have changed for the better. Plus I don't think your absence will be too damaging to the country.

This scares me to no end. I'm very sorry to hear that you feel that way. I suspect you are not alone, but I think it a sad state of affairs when we lack the brotherly love to reach out to and help those within our reach.
It's the way that things work in Europe. Their governments give the money - and the individuals (by comparison to Americans) give very little money.

Here in the US, the government is expected to give money - but the individuals give more.

The best ice cream i've ever tasted was/is Ben & Jerry's

Generally i'm a vanilla guy, but B&J's Chocolate Fudge Brownie is so, so, so FREAKING GOOD.

I have heard of a company called Graeter's (or Grater's?) and that their ice cream is phenomenal.

I have had Italian gelato, and it was good... but i still prefer Ben & Jerry's.

He did not say he felt that way, he simply described the reality of life for most peopple in the Western world. They are too busy dealing with their own lives to do anything about the lives of others.

Sorry :confused: I guess I missed that part...

Even if he doesn't personally feel that way, the idea of that reality is extremely distressing to me. It is a very sad thing when we become so wrapped up in ourselves that we have no time to do good for others or worse yet to use it as an excuse for making someone else responsible for that which is our responsibility.

It's the way that things work in Europe. Their governments give the money - and the individuals (by comparison to Americans) give very little money.

Here in the US, the government is expected to give money - but the individuals give more.

Which is exactly my problem with European governments and socialism in general. It can work, sort of, but it dehumanizes the process and removes personal responsibility to care for ones fellow man.

None of those people who said that they were leaving actually did, once again proving that democrats are liars

I know one. So there has to be at least one democrat who isn't a liar. :D

Plutophobia

Fascism = Economic left-wing + social right-wing

The Nazis' real name was the National Socialist Party ... ring a bell? They were in favor of government control of assets, which REPUBLICANS are not.

Ergo, I dare say that the VAST MAJORITY of American Republicans are not Fascists.

Please look into the meaning of your labels before applying them.
Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy. The 14 characteristics are:

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." Check.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc." Check.

Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc." Check. Who are "The Terrorists"? This administration hasn't been very specific, but there are zillions of 'em, and we apparently have to kill them all before they kill us.

Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Check. Never before has the military ever been so glorified.

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy." Check. While women are not told their job is to produce healthy children, their rights are definitely restricted by this administration.

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common." This one is not currently the case, although it should be noted that our media consists of a bunch of pansy little girls who cannot form opinions, say anything bad about anyone, or point out when anyone in our government is being evil.

Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." CHECK. "The Terrorists will strike possibly within the next few weeks... we expect them to try something around the election... or Christmas... We'll just raise the threat level to be safe."

Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions." Check. Faith-Based initiatives anyone?

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." CHECK +1. This government has shown raving support for business, giving corporations more rights than even individual people get, allowing them to ransack the environment, and changing the tax code blantantly to favor corporations and the wealthy.

Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed." 1/2 check, because it hasn't really come up. Note, however, that Bush's Big Social Security Fix is to cut benefits.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts." Check, as per the slur "white tower College liberals".

Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations." Check. Patriot act, anyone?

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders." Check. What does this administration do when it needs a new Secretary of State? It picks Condoleeza Rice! What did her former job as National Security Advisor have to do with international diplomacy, beside also serving on the National Security Council? Who do they pick to run the EPA? Mike Leavitt, former Utah governor who oversaw some of the worst deregulation and lowering of protections that left the state open to be wantonly ravaged by corporate interest. For the Environmental PROTECTION Agency!

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections." Doubleplus Check: Why did exit polls show that Kerry won?

(I've also taken the liberty of posting this on a thread, since it's so important that people realize: They aren't Conservatives. They're fascists.)

It's been posted and proven before: Americans give more money privately than anyone else in the world.
Indeed this is true. Americans also have some of the lowest income tax rates in the world. While I am not for the total elimination of social welfare, Plutophobia, there is a case to be made for reducing taxes to benefit private charity.

It's the way that things work in Europe. Their governments give the money - and the individuals (by comparison to Americans) give very little money.
I don't know about that. I don't have statistics, but I think that Britons gave more, per capita, to the tsunami survivors than Americans did.

It is a very sad thing when we become so wrapped up in ourselves that we have no time to do good for others.
Unfortunately it is a by-product of the competitive capitalist culture. I am pro-capitalist, but this has not gone unnoticed to me. People in socialist countries such as the USSR and Ireland before 1987, typically had more community spirit and charitable impulses.

Plutophobia

Fascism = Economic left-wing + social right-wing

The Nazis' real name was the National Socialist Party ... ring a bell? They were in favor of government control of assets, which REPUBLICANS are not.

Ergo, I dare say that the VAST MAJORITY of American Republicans are not Fascists.

Please look into the meaning of your labels before applying them.

Fascism and national socialism weren’t exactly the same thing, id agree that
National Socialism = Economic left-wing+ social right-wing, to an extent prehaps, but really everything was just nationalised to just make more weapons so hmmm...

Fascism is something quite different really doesn’t have the extreme racism for one, its the running of a government and country for the military by the military and that the state of the nation is above the state of the individual, and well the republican party. Ill let you make your own mind up there

Unfortunately it is a by-product of the competitive capitalist culture. I am pro-capitalist, but this has not gone unnoticed to me. People in socialist countries such as the USSR and Ireland before 1987, typically had more community spirit and charitable impulses.

I'm not so sure it is as much a by-product of capitalism as much as it is a by-product of affluence combined with an entitlement mentality. Americans seem to have developed the notion that they should be able to have anything and everything someone else has and that life is somehow unfair to them if they don't drive a late model car and have a house on the right side of the tracks.

Capitalism says something more along the lines of, you will have whatever the market brings for whatever you have to offer.

Which is exactly my problem with European governments and socialism in general. It can work, sort of, but it dehumanizes the process and removes personal responsibility to care for ones fellow man.

And my experience tells me that man has long failed to live up to that personal responsibility. That the personal responsibility you talk of is idealistic and not realistic in my expereience. Perhaps you live in a place that such things are taken care of by the communities and induviduals...but I have yet to hear of a place where the poor masses are supported by the rest of the masses. I only see a few devoted souls working against all of life's misgivings to help, and I see it everywhere I've been.

Yeah, it sucks. But that's why I don't believe that personal charity alone can do it. If it could, I don't believe we would have seen such poverty throughout history.

I have done no studies into how Europe does things, I have done no studies into which is more effective in the long run. I can tell you this much; the way things stand; personal responsibility seems to those around me to be a code word for "ditch the poor people and run." Everyone I talk to is scared that the last refuges for those with nowhere to turn will close, that the food that so many live on will stop coming.

Getting a job and working yourself into this world is VERY difficult, and if you can't eat or sleep somewhere safe, its that much MORE difficult. How many people can get jobs when they sleep in boxes? How many people can get jobs when they eat only every other day? Communities and iduviduals can help, NEED to help, but they cannot do it alone. There are simply too many people who need help.

Perhaps some utopia exists where the few who can afford to care can take up the slack for the masses who can't afford to...But I doubt it. Utopias only exist in books and in the mind. I'd rather have a pragmatic approach that works than some blissful wish!

And my experience tells me that man has long failed to live up to that personal responsibility.

Then how do you explain the massive private philanthropy in America?

Or how do you explain how I spend my spare time doing free social work?

It's been posted and proven before: Americans give more money privately than anyone else in the world.
No, it hasn't. Foreign-aid, our governments gives the smallest percentage of its GDP than any country in the world. As for private charities, determining the amount of money given by all private charities in the entire world would be a very rough estimate and no one ever gave any sources.

It's the way that things work in Europe. Their governments give the money - and the individuals (by comparison to Americans) give very little money.
Human beings are not inherently selfless. Even the Bible teaches this. If you believe people are inherently generous and good, to give to those in need, without goverment programs, then you should become an Anarchist, since you're so idealistic. In fact, let's abolish government entirely and instead just be run by voluntary unions. Right?

No. It would be chaos. Because if everyone in the world has one slice of pie, I want ten. And if everyone in the world has ten slices of pie, I want a hundred. That is the nature of man: Born innocent, but very quickly changes and he is "evil from his very beginnings."

A Lot of people posting, here have the insane misconception that if you don’t feel like working in Europe your government will simply pay for you.

Yes... Oh of course because that would make us 1st world countries wouldn’t it.

Yes if your unemployed you get money as opposed to you starving, its about £100 a week and well that’s jack shit. You also get housing if you can afford it, but its a concrete nightmare, its there so people don't starve and sleep on the street, it not meant to be nice, its just the humane thing to do.
Also if your not actively being seen to be seeking working you get your money called unemployment 'benefits' (black humour?) taken away from you.

We don’t encourage laziness, we just don’t like treating people without money like shit.

Now you go dress up in your SA uniform and go to your rally. Becuase we have a good system that, treats people like people.

Then how do you explain the massive private philanthropy in America?

Or how do you explain how I spend my spare time doing free social work?

Money is spent. Does it help? Sure. Does it help those in need? ...maybe. Does it help those in the places I've been to? Perhaps...but so much MORE would need to be done just by induviduals alone if public funding were stopped.

I'm not trying to take anything away from you personally. But you cannot help people where I live. Nor can you help everyone who needs it where you live. You are just one induvidual no? You have limits. I don't NEED to explain it at all, you said it yourself. You're one of the "good ones"; the few who help.

Tell me, how many people in your neighborhood do the same? How many in your county? Your state? How many needy people are there in your county? In your state? How many do so on private funding alone? How many more would join in if all public funding were cut tomorrow? How many would be forced to stop or cut back on their helping if that were to happen?

Are you honestly telling me that you, your family, and everyone you know helps out? How many give money but not time? How many have time but no money? How many induviduals would it take to meet all the needs of those who are needy? How many refuse/would rather not/can't reach, to help certain groups?

Ill think youll find relative to GDP, Britian donates the most money, publically and privatally to aid, and charaties, for example we were the biggest gdp/total contributer after the south east asian tsunami.
Ill go serch for some figures now.

And my experience tells me that man has long failed to live up to that personal responsibility. That the personal responsibility you talk of is idealistic and not realistic in my expereience. Perhaps you live in a place that such things are taken care of by the communities and induviduals...but I have yet to hear of a place where the poor masses are supported by the rest of the masses. I only see a few devoted souls working against all of life's misgivings to help, and I see it everywhere I've been.

Yeah, it sucks. But that's why I don't believe that personal charity alone can do it. If it could, I don't believe we would have seen such poverty throughout history.

I have done no studies into how Europe does things, I have done no studies into which is more effective in the long run. I can tell you this much; the way things stand; personal responsibility seems to those around me to be a code word for "ditch the poor people and run." Everyone I talk to is scared that the last refuges for those with nowhere to turn will close, that the food that so many live on will stop coming.

Getting a job and working yourself into this world is VERY difficult, and if you can't eat or sleep somewhere safe, its that much MORE difficult. How many people can get jobs when they sleep in boxes? How many people can get jobs when they eat only every other day? Communities and iduviduals can help, NEED to help, but they cannot do it alone. There are simply too many people who need help.

Perhaps some utopia exists where the few who can afford to care can take up the slack for the masses who can't afford to...But I doubt it. Utopias only exist in books and in the mind. I'd rather have a pragmatic approach that works than some blissful wish!

Believe me, I wasn't saying that people are living up to that responsibility or that they ever will.

As for the poor getting jobs, I have had several very resourceful clients both Mentally Ill and Developementally Disabled (I'm a social worker) that were very good at finding jobs to get what they wanted. Sure they weren't the greatest jobs in the world, but they were enough to get by on.

My big issue is that many of my client's and others in the U.S. seem to believe that they are owed a standard of living comparible to the average, simply because they exist. I know I'm not owed anything simply cause I'm here except the opportunity to be here safely and the opportunity to work to provide for myself and my family. Anything I am able to do for others above and beyond that is a gift of love on my part and should be viewed as such.

Unfortunately, as a social worker I don't make enough to make a big dent in world poverty, but I do what I am able. I just don't believe it is anyone's right to steal (tax) from me what I have worked for and give it to someone else against my wishes.

Are you honestly telling me that you, your family, and everyone you know helps out? How many give money but not time? How many have time but no money? How many induviduals would it take to meet all the needs of those who are needy? How many refuse/would rather not/can't reach, to help certain groups?

Most of the people I know do something. Even in a socialist society, if you wait for the government to do something you'll be waiting forever.

If you live in a socialist society, you will be conditioned to wait. And you will wait longer than someone who is conditioned by a government that says up front, "well, we don't have to help you today".

One of the most telling Supreme Court decisions in US history was Warren vs. District of Columbia. http://www.healylaw.com/cases/warren2.htm

"The respective trial judges held that the police were under no specific legal duty to provide protection to the individual appellants "

One might also note that this holds true for any public servant - unless a special duty is defined to a special class of people - highly unlikely in most circumstances.

What our government tells us up front, is that we are responsible. So most of us are used to it. The problem comes when we get a political party that promises that the government will take care of you - that you are somehow owed this promise and this care. For a while, those people are fooled - but the basic premise of US government is that you are not owed anything except your freedom to fail or succeed.

It is promises like these that led to Lyndon Johnson's Great Society program turning whole generations of people into habitual indigents - people who now live with the expectation that they are "owed" something.

Political scientist Dr. Lawrence Britt wrote an article about fascism ("Fascism Anyone?," Free Inquiry, Spring 2003, page 20). Studying the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile), Dr. Britt found they all had 14 elements in common. He calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The excerpt is in accordance with the magazine's policy. The 14 characteristics are:

Fine. I’ll refute these points of fantasy.
(Please note that I’m actually a moderate. I’ve voted GOP twice, DEM twice, and Independent once in the 5 Presidential elections I’ve voted in since 1988. I get pissed with the bullshite of BOTH sides.)

Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottoes, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays." Check.

Cute, but I seem to recall seeing nothing but Red, White & Blue for all of 1976. Was the Carter Administration fascist, too?
Also, in fascist nations, flying the flag is required (and often paid for) by the government. All the flags I see were paid for by citizens.

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States, ever.

Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc." Check.

Um?
1) The MASSIVE coverage of Abu Gharib proves this false.
2) The protests about GitMo prove this false, even though the INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS has inspected GitMo regularly!
3) Pray tell, whom has the US executed in this administration?
4) Pray tell, whom has the US assassinated in this administration?

As for the long incarceration of prisoners, that's a matter for the courts to decide. It's a legal matter.

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States in 2005.


Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc." Check. Who are "The Terrorists"? This administration hasn't been very specific, but there are zillions of 'em, and we apparently have to kill them all before they kill us.

The terrorists have provided the US with a specific list: (Note: you can find the original here: http://www.answers.com/topic/list-of-terrorist-incidents , I stripped out all the non-US related ones as they don’t apply to this topic. This is not meant to take away from the British, Spanish, Italians, Russians, Australians and others that have suffered.)

• 1983 April 18 U.S. Embassy Bombing in Beirut, Lebanon kills 63
• 1983 September 23 Gulf Air Flight 771 is bombed, killing all 117 people on board
• 1983 October 23 Marine Barracks Bombing in Beirut kills 241 U.S. Marines. 58 French troops from the multinational force are also killed in a separate attack.
• 1985 TWA Flight 847 hijacking
• 1985 October 7 - October 10 Achille Lauro cruise ship hijacking by Palestinian Liberation Front, during which passenger Leon Klinghoffer is shot dead.
• 1985 EgyptAir Flight 648 hijacked by Abu Nidal group, flown to Malta, where Egyptian commandos storm plane; 60 are killed by gunfire and explosions.
• 1986 TWA Flight 840 bombed on approach to Athens airport; 4 Americans, including an infant, are killed.
• 1986 April 6 the La Belle discotheque in Berlin, a known hangout for U.S. soldiers, was bombed, killing 3 and injuring 230 people, for which Libya is held responsible. In retaliation, the US bombs Libya in Operation El Dorado Canyon and tries to kill dictator Qaddafi.
• 1986 Pan Am Flight 73, an American civilian airliner, is hijacked; 22 people die when plane is stormed in Karachi, Pakistan.
• 1988 Pan Am Flight 103 bombing (Lockerbie). The worst act of terrorism against the United States prior to September 11, 2001.
• 1989 Avianca Flight 203 bombed over Colombia
• 1993 February 26 World Trade Center bombing kills 6 and injures over 1000 people
• 1993 Failed New York City landmark bomb plot
• 1993 Mir Aimal Kansi, a Pakistani, fires an AK-47 assault rifle into cars waiting at a stoplight in front of the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters. Two died.
• 1994 December 11 A small bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines Flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman. Authorities found out that Ramzi Yousef planted the bomb to test it for his planned terrorist attack.
• 1995 Operation Bojinka is discovered on a laptop computer in a Manila, Philippines apartment by authorities after an apartment fire occurred in the apartment.
• 1995 Bombing of military compound in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
• 1996 June 25 Khobar Towers bombing
• 1997 A terrorist opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine".
• 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, killing 225 people and injuring more than 4,000.
• 1999 Ahmed Ressam is arrested on the United States-Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington; he confessed to planning to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots
• 1999 Jordanian authorities foil a plot to bomb US and Israeli tourists in Jordan and pick up 28 suspects as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots
• 2000 The last of the 2000 millennium attack plots fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks
• 2000 October 12 USS Cole bombing kills 17 US sailors
• 2001 September 11, 2001 attacks kill almost 3,000 in a series of hijacked airliner crashes into two landmarks: the World Trade Center in New York City, New York, and The Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. A fourth plane crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania.
• 2001 Paris embassy attack plot foiled
• 2001 Richard Reid, attempting to destroy American Airlines Flight 63, is subdued by passengers and flight attendants before he could detonate his shoe bomb
• 2002 Singapore embassies attack plot foiled
• 2002 June 14 attack outside U.S. Consulate in Karachi
• 2002 Kidnapping and murder of journalist Daniel Pearl
• 2002 October 12 Bali car bombing of holidaymakers kills 202
• 2003 Riyadh Compound Bombings - bombings of United States expat housing compounds in Saudi Arabia kill 26 and injure 160. Al-Qaeda blamed
• 2003 Casablanca Attacks in Casablanca, Morocco leaves 41 dead. The attack involved 12 bombers and 5 targets. The targets were "Western and Jewish". Attack attributed to a Moroccan al-Qaeda-linked group
• 2003 Canal Hotel Bombing in Baghdad, Iraq kills 22 people including the top UN representative, Sergio Vieira de Mello
• 2003-2004 In response to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Iraqi insurgency in that country stage dozens of suicide bombings, kidnappings and several beheadings targeting Iraqi, Coalition and humanitarian targets. Attacks on some coalition forces may not be terrorist attacks under Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions which gives lawful combatant status to non-uniformed guerrillas resisting foreign occupation if they display arms openly. As neither the US or Iraq have signed this protocol it is not applicable to attacks on US forces.
• 2003 October 15 - A bomb is detonated by Palestinians against a US diplomatic convoy in the Gaza Strip killing three Americans
• 2004 May 29 Al-Khobar massacres--Islamic terrorists kill 22 people at an oil compound in Saudi Arabia.
• 2004 December 6 Suspected al Qaeda-linked group attacks U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, killing 5 local employees.

How many times do you stand in the street and let the other guy hit you before you hit him back?

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States in 2005.
Either that, or the point supports an idea that Islamist radicals should be allowed to attack the US and US citizens without any fear.

Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized." Check. Never before has the military ever been so glorified.

Name me a single year in history when America hasn’t had “widespread domestic problems”. The military, by the way, accounts for far less federal spending than entitlements.
As for glorified, I think that the author may have enjoyed the military’s image in the post-Viet Nam years a bit too much. How about 1945?

Also, I find it ironic: if the domesic issues WERE being ignored, why is there so much uproar about gay marriage, drilling in the wildlife refuge, Terry Shiavo, the Patriot Act, and Social Security reform? :rolleyes:

Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy." Check. While women are not told their job is to produce healthy children, their rights are definitely restricted by this administration.

Male domination: Hmm. Could this possibly be because historically women haven’t ruled? I can’t think of a SINGLE nation that was every run by women for 50 years in the past 5000. This is not a fascist trait, this is a human civilization one.

Women:Bush has 6 women in his cabinet: Condoleezza Rice, Elaine Chao, Christine Todd Whitman, Ann Veneman, Gale Ann Norton and Karen Hughes.
Clinton had 4. Carter had 3.

Further, exactly HOW are women’s rights restricted???

Abortion: In the United States, Roe v. Wade still stands.

Homophobia: Hmm. Could it be because historically, widespread homophilia has never existed in any nation?

Anti-gay legislation: I wasn’t aware the US was rounding up gays, tattooing numbers on their arms, and sending them to camps. Oh, wait. It isn’t.
Gay marriage, by the way, doesn’t count as an issue: it was never legal to begin with, so it not being allowed now is moot as a point for the US being considered fascist.

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States, ever.

Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common." This one is not currently the case, although it should be noted that our media consists of a bunch of pansy little girls who cannot form opinions, say anything bad about anyone, or point out when anyone in our government is being evil.

I agree with this one, more or less. Except to point out that LOTS of things are said that are bad about the government. Air America is just the tip of the iceberg (it being partisan). But supposed non-partisan operations like NPR (which I listen to) and CBS are leaders in this category.

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States.


Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses." CHECK. "The Terrorists will strike possibly within the next few weeks... we expect them to try something around the election... or Christmas... We'll just raise the threat level to be safe."

See the list of attacks above. I’d rather be safe than sorry.

Further, the terror warning system went into effect in March 2002. It is two days shy of April 2005. In 3 years, it’s been raised from yellow to orange 4 or 5 times. That’s about once every 200 days. Yep, real fear mongering there.

This point doesn’t stand at all.


Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions." Check. Faith-Based initiatives anyone?

Sure, how about them?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/fbci/

President Bush proposed a three-year, $150-million initiative to help youth at risk of gang influence and involvement.
This is bad, why?
Also, please note that the actual FAITH is never enumerated by the White House. It could be Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, Hindu, *whatever*.

So the government is using the “dominant religion” how?

This point doesn’t stand scrutiny in the least.

Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite." CHECK +1. This government has shown raving support for business, giving corporations more rights than even individual people get, allowing them to ransack the environment, and changing the tax code blantantly to favor corporations and the wealthy.

This point radically fails:
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Accounting+scandals&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1
Massive accounting scandals, all brought to light and fined/punished.
Never mind Martha Stewart, Enron, and Tyco.

As for the tax code, note that whom the wealthy is.
BTW, the top 50% of the nation pays 96% of the taxes. THE POOR DON’T GET TAX BREAKS BECAUSE THEY DON’T PAY TAXES!
http://www.taxfoundation.org/prtopincometable.html

This point isn't even real.


Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed." 1/2 check, because it hasn't really come up. Note, however, that Bush's Big Social Security Fix is to cut benefits.

Note that not only has this not come up, it is doubtful it ever will, since union labor has been falling in power since WW2.

Bush’s Social Security fix doesn’t have anything to do with the point, BTW. Retirement does not equate to Labor Power.

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States.

Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts." Check, as per the slur "white tower College liberals".

Uncheck, as it’s actually true that most upper education institutions are liberal in nature.
That being said, I don’t see any book burnings or free expression being repressed, aside from that statue being draped.

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States in 2005.


Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations." Check. Patriot act, anyone?

Um, no.
• Section 215 has never been used. (Library use)
• Provisions of the act expire.
• The Patriot Act has been used to charge 372 suspected terrorists and convict 194 of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_act

…AND it can’t even be used unless you’re a suspected terrorist. AND A federal judge signs the paperwork.

So where's the unlimited power? This point of view comes from someone who's never visited a Communist nation.

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States.

Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders." Check. What does this administration do when it needs a new Secretary of State? It picks Condoleeza Rice! What did her former job as National Security Advisor have to do with international diplomacy, beside also serving on the National Security Council? Who do they pick to run the EPA? Mike Leavitt, former Utah governor who oversaw some of the worst deregulation and lowering of protections that left the state open to be wantonly ravaged by corporate interest. For the Environmental PROTECTION Agency!

You can find “rampant cronyism and corruption” in any government, most notably democracy in small towns. In fact, it’s not a tenet of fascism, but a tenet of ANY GOVERNMENT.

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States in 2005, any more than it has for any government in history.

Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections." Doubleplus Check: Why did exit polls show that Kerry won?

Because those polls were done before all the votes were counted? And most of the reporting was done in states Kerry won? Try reading TIME, Newsweek, or any one of the dozens of other media rags on how this happened.

If the GOP were Fascistic, don’t you think they’d be a little more sure about “stealing TWO elections” than supposedly rigging a few machines in Ohio this time and counting on some legal wrangling in 2000? :rolleyes:

This point doesn’t stand in reference to the United States in 2005. In fact, it’s a joke.

(I've also taken the liberty of posting this on a thread, since it's so important that people realize: They aren't Conservatives. They're fascists.)

They’re your fellow Americans, and both the author and you have proven yourselves to be at best left wing elitists, at worst, raving partisan idiots. :(

Like I said before, this isn't America. This is

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/11/images/04new_map.jpg
Actually, most of Illinois and Wisconsin would have to be ceded to Jesusland as well. And I doubt Canadia would want the festering pit of corruption that is Chicago(it's in third place, second goes to the state of New Jersey and first goes to Washington D.C.) either which means we get the entire state of Illinois. And except for Milwualkee and Madison, Wisconsin is pretty much ours as well.

And I doubt Canadia would want the festering pit of corruption that is Chicago(it's in third place, second goes to the state of New Jersey and first goes to Washington D.C.)

well, that's a comforting thought.

i live in NJ, and my number one pick for college (i graduate this year) is in chicago.

well, i'm stepping up one spot, i guess :p

Cute, but I seem to recall seeing nothing but Red, White & Blue for all of 1976. Was the Carter Administration fascist, too?
I don't want to get into this argument, but just to note that Carter wasn't actually inaugurated until 1977.

Actually, most of Illinois and Wisconsin would have to be ceded to Jesusland as well. And I doubt Canadia would want the festering pit of corruption that is Chicago(it's in third place, second goes to the state of New Jersey and first goes to Washington D.C.) either which means we get the entire state of Illinois. And except for Milwualkee and Madison, Wisconsin is pretty much ours as well.
I doubt Canada would want any of it, because it would mean basically being controlled from California.

I just want to know who decided that the blue states wanted to join Canada, anyway?

have you ever actually thumped a bible? it's quite satisfying.
Satisfaction varies for thumper ... different items *thumped* against bible have satisfactory results in varying degree.
If *thumping* bible AGAINST something else, results maybe similar. However, sounds may differ dramatically.

Anyone else find this skaepedroish?

Anyone else find this skaepedroish?
It's not quite as extreme and a bit more flamebaity-looking, to me. Similar, but different.

It's not quite as extreme and a bit more flamebaity-looking, to me. Similar, but different.
All of his threads are anit-Conservative pieces.

I don't want to get into this argument, but just to note that Carter wasn't actually inaugurated until 1977.

Sorry, my bad. Ford, then.