NationStates Jolt Archive

there is a lot of talk about the Democratic Party these days, and most of it seems to be centered around what degree, exactly, of falling-apart-ishness it is in.

there are the hardcore democrats who think it can pull together for a rerun, and the GOP, who says that clinton was the last dem we're ever going to see. if the NRA has their way *ca-chick*

it seems that, however bad it's doing, it's doing bad.

it's either moving off the liberal base, and losing liberal votes in order to gain ground in middle america, or it's shifting farther left, and losing that central ground altogher.

so i want to ask: what would it take to start a new political party, building off the foundation of the democrats, but reigning in the green party, and reaching out to the moderates?

for a glimpse of how parties in america's history have evolved, go here:
http://www.historyshots.com/parties/
and here:
http://www.historyshots.com/parties2/


*shrug* just a thought.

*bump*

how'd this fall to the bottom of the page already?


does anyone have any thoughts?

it would be interesting, to say the least

Simple. It'd take a few big name Senators and Representatives, along with a few other well known Americans banding together to start a new party. As long as they were extremely vocal they'd get quite a few supporters and members in the short term and, if they played their cards right, they'd have little trouble capitalizing on the fervor and becoming a staying force in politics.

Someone has to fill the gap that the Democrats may or may not be leaving. People have heard all about how the Democrats are in their death throes right now, but no one is actually seeing it. I'm sure not. To me the Democrats are just as much an institution now as they were back in 1996. If people actually see the party start to lose its most influential members, they'll start to sense the void and begin to look for a new party to represent them. Since the Democrats represent roughly 50% of the country, we can expect at least 2/3 of these people to start voting for this new party.

The problem I see is that Democrats will no doubt try to field one more candidate for a presidential election and they'll still be seen as a major contender. This will split the Democratic vote like Roosevelt did between himself and Taft and the Republicans will win. Speaking of that election, remember that the Democrats were 'almost dead' before Wilson got elected, too. They've pulled through a slump like this before.

To me, it seems as though the parties already exist to fill whatever void the Democrats leave.

Either the Democrats can become the party of social liberalism and fiscal responsibility - libertarian lite - or they can grow more leftist and energize their progressive base.

If they go libertarian lite, leaving their progressive base in the dust, the Greens can move in and take them up. If they grow more progressive, however, the Libertarians will have an opportunity to make a power grab as the only legitimate party of fiscal responsibility left.

It will be interesting. But if history has taught us anything about political parties, it's that they are pinned on unexpected events.

But its still hard to gain any sort of foothold in American politics, its pretty much exclusively two party isnt it?

You would probably need a strong issue to begin with. Like slavery for the Republicans.

But its still hard to gain any sort of foothold in American politics, its pretty much exclusively two party isnt it?Moreso now than ever, but traditionally third parties have not been completely outside the realm of possibility; they definitely alter the dynamics of an election. The Socialist, Progressive and Bull Moose parties all affected the outcome of elections [oddly enough, harming the liberals... we haven't been able to get our shit together for centuries].

To me, it seems as though the parties already exist to fill whatever void the Democrats leave.

Either the Democrats can become the party of social liberalism and fiscal responsibility - libertarian lite - or they can grow more leftist and energize their progressive base.

If they go libertarian lite, leaving their progressive base in the dust, the Greens can move in and take them up. If they grow more progressive, however, the Libertarians will have an opportunity to make a power grab as the only legitimate party of fiscal responsibility left.

It will be interesting. But if history has taught us anything about political parties, it's that they are pinned on unexpected events.

Neither the Libertarians or the Greens have serious traction in the US for the foreseeable future.

Much of the appeal either have now is precisely because they are fringe with little scrutiny of their policies.

The Democrats are a long way from fading as a party. Talk of a new party is just that --- talk.

But its still hard to gain any sort of foothold in American politics, its pretty much exclusively two party isnt it?

You would probably need a strong issue to begin with. Like slavery for the Republicans.

I predict that in the coming years our trade deficit, border security and immigration policy, and the growing influence of countries like China and Saudi Arabia over our fate will become huge issues. The writing is on the wall: these problems need to be addressed soon.

China and Saudi Arabia, as well as the rest of OPEC, will probably be big issues. Both countries have vast sums of money invested on Wall Street. If they ever pull out we'll be plunged into a depression that we'll never quite recover from. You can kiss our world's top dog status goodbye if we don't have some solid ideas for coping with these situaions.

When hydrogen fuel cells are developed to the point where they will be applied in most areas where oil is now (and they will be.) OPEC will begin to see its profits free fall. Sounds like a bad time to drop all your investments, doesn't it? Not if you want to blackmail the United States and the western world by proxy. How about that deal with Taiwan? Will the United States support them? We might just go back on our word (I hear Taiwan is exploring their options in starting a nuclear weapons program to protect themselves from China in the event of this happening). But what if we don't? China will be angry. Then what do we do?

Interesting questions and I don't have the answers. These times could turn out to be an optimal time for a new, better party to arise. I think we'll certainly see some changes in the Republican party. I don't think either party's current members are willing to take on these problems head on. Better to sell out the country in the long run and pacify our threats now then at least try to establish a dominant position for us in the future; that's their motto.

Neither the Libertarians or the Greens have serious traction in the US for the foreseeable future.

Much of the appeal either have now is precisely because they are fringe with little scrutiny of their policies.

The Democrats are a long way from fading as a party. Talk of a new party is just that --- talk.You certainly seem dismissive this morning, Cat-Tribe!

It seems to me as though they have considerable traction as grassroots parties. I'm not saying that the Libertarians or Greens will experience huge boosts in power and prestige after the Democrats make their decision [or fail to make their decision], but I am saying that there will be fallout, and somebody will gain - probably a fringe party, like the ones I listed. And that will affect American politics, even if only slightly.

You certainly seem dismissive this morning, Cat-Tribe!

Thank you. I try.

It seems to me as though they have considerable traction as grassroots parties. I'm not saying that the Libertarians or Greens will experience huge boosts in power and prestige after the Democrats make their decision [or fail to make their decision], but I am saying that there will be fallout, and somebody will gain - probably a fringe party, like the ones I listed. And that will affect American politics, even if only slightly.

The Greens aren't even on the radar nationally -- only in a few select regions.

The Libertarians have barely managed to get over 1% in any Presidential election since 1976. And their percentage has been going down, not up. Their best showing was in 1980.

Some day soon I'll have to start a thread on the LP, because I bet even those who call themselves Libertarians in these forums do not seriously support half of the Libertarian platform. You should read it -- its hilarious.

Thank you. I try.



The Greens aren't even on the radar nationally -- only in a few select regions.

The Libertarians have barely managed to get over 1% in any Presidential election since 1976. And their percentage has been going down, not up. Their best showing was in 1980.

Some day soon I'll have to start a thread on the LP, because I bet even those who call themselves Libertarians in these forums do not seriously support half of the Libertarian platform. You should read it -- its hilarious.

But most Rs don't support the Reps entirely, and as has been widely reported many people voted not for Kerry, but against Bush, so the Ds don't look to be doing much better. Given that the Libertarians are the largest third party in the US by a long way, I wouldn't discount them just yet.

But then again I'm a monarchist. I think the US and Canada should be brought back under British control.

I'm all for starting the Dada Party...