NationStates Jolt Archive

Now, we all know that the Nazi Swastika is a Symbol of Evil to the west, and to the world. Of course, this has lead to numerous bannings of the Swastika on many things(including NS Flags), due to the fact that the rich and powerful west says that "All Swastikas are evil and shouldn't be allowed." However, there is a fatal flaw in that thinking:

Swastikas are religious symbols too. Since thousands of years before Hitler, the Swastika has been a religious symbol for the oldest religions around. Over 1 billion people regard the Swastika as a religious object, and most likely alot more as well. That's why I think these two Swastikas should be allowed.

Here are a few pictures of those swastikas:

http://usa.altermedia.info/images/hindu%20swastika.JPG
Look at the key differences. This Swastika is not tilted, and has four dots in it. It's alot different than the Nazi one.

http://usa.altermedia.info/images/buddhist%20temple%20swasi.JPG
This Swastika is friggen backwards, not to mention it isn't tilted or black.

Of course, I know this plea will fall on deaf ears(it seems that NS is anti-eastern religions), but I just thought I should just push for this. After all, Christians have killed alot more people than the Nazi's dead, and yet we haven't banned the Crucifix.

SHIT, I thought it said "Should it be BANNED in flags", so I voted "No Way!"... Fuck!!! Anyway... I say that they shouldn't be banned, even the Nazi sort. I believe in a little thing called Freedom of Speech, no matter how ridiculous or stupid it is.

SHIT, I thought it said "Should it be BANNED in flags", so I voted "No Way!"... Fuck!!! Anyway... I say that they shouldn't be banned, even the Nazi sort. I believe in a little thing called Freedom of Speech, no matter how ridiculous or stupid it is.

Ah well, we know which one you wanted.

no

no

Why?

Are you going to discriminate against the Brown peoples religion too?

You guys are so hypocritical...

A lot of people have used this arguement before. It does not matter. The reason anything that looks like the swastica is banned is that most of the people using it intend it to represent the German one. And they all claim it to be a religious symbol. It has nothing to do with hating eastern culture and has everything to do with political correctness. Get over it.

Think of the children!!! Will somebody please think of the children!!!

I don't care either way. You can tell by the way a person posts whether or not they're a Hindu or a neo-Nazi anyway...

A lot of people have used this arguement before. It does not matter. The reason anything that looks like the swastica is banned is that most of the people using it intend it to represent the German one. And they all claim it to be a religious symbol. It has nothing to do with hating eastern culture and has everything to do with political correctness. Get over it.

But, if people aren't educated about the subject, it'll continue to be wrongfully oppressed. So, why the fuck shouldn't it be allowed?

I don't care either way. You can tell by the way a person posts whether or not they're a Hindu or a neo-Nazi anyway...
ANd Lightning Star is as Hindu as they get. I say let him have his swastika.

A lot of people have used this arguement before. It does not matter. The reason anything that looks like the swastica is banned is that most of the people using it intend it to represent the German one. And they all claim it to be a religious symbol. It has nothing to do with hating eastern culture and has everything to do with political correctness. Get over it.

But it's racist banning these Swastikas!

Just because some whack-job Nazi said, "We shall use Swastikas to represent our ideals" doesn't mean all Swastika people are evil.

Oh, and say it's "politically correct" to over 1 billion Hindus and Buddhists.

I'm sure they'll understand...

(BTW-I am not Hindu. I've just spent alot of my life Living in South Asia and the rest of the world, and the arrogance of the west sickens me.)

ANd Lightning Star is as Hindu as they get. I say let him have his swastika.
I wouldn't mind if he had a swastika in his flag. But it doesn't break me up that he doesn't get to have one. It wouldn't break me up if they banned stars and crosses and moons from flags either.

But, if people aren't educated about the subject, it'll continue to be wrongfully oppressed. So, why the fuck shouldn't it be allowed?
If people get their education from Nationstates then they deserve to remain ignorant.

(BTW-I am not Hindu. I've just spent alot of my life Living in South Asia and the rest of the world, and the arrogance of the west sickens me.)
I was with you until that line. This has nothing to do with arrogance and everything to do with the fact that the swastika is commonly assumed to have a Nazi implication, the same way that villian is commonly assumed to have a bad guy implication, rather than farm tenant, which is what the word actually means. And if you don't like the West's forums, you're invited not to post on them.

Think of the children!!! Will somebody please think of the....ah fuck 'em.
Something just occured to me. As far as I know the swastica, in one form or another, exists/existed on every continent. Ancient celts. ancient Germans, Greeks, Indo-Aryans, Injuns, Chinese etc............
How comes?

Think of the children!!! Will somebody please think of the....ah fuck 'em.
Something just occured to me. As far as I know the swastica, in one form or another, exists/existed on every continent. Ancient celts. ancient Germans, Greeks, Indo-Arians, Injuns, Chinese etc............
How comes?
Cause it's made of straight lines, which are easy to draw with stone tools.

I was with you until that line. This has nothing to do with arrogance and everything to do with the fact that the swastika is commonly assumed to have a Nazi implication, the same way that villian is commonly assumed to have a bad guy implication, rather than farm tenant, which is what the word actually means. And if you don't like the West's forums, you're invited not to post on them.

The arrogance is that all people in the west automatically assume that Swastikas are evil and anyone who has one is a racist. They are the discriminatory.

(Another BTW- I am American.)

As far as I know the swastica, in one form or another, exists/existed on every continent. Ancient celts. ancient Germans, Greeks, Indo-Aryans, Injuns, Chinese etc............
How comes?
:eek:
NAZIS WITH TIME MACHINES!!!

A lot of people have used this arguement before. It does not matter. The reason anything that looks like the swastica is banned is that most of the people using it intend it to represent the German one. And they all claim it to be a religious symbol. It has nothing to do with hating eastern culture and has everything to do with political correctness. Get over it.

Political correctness is a crock of shit. If I want to say "All Jewish people are subhuman hooknosed scum" I have the right to. It isn't until I take action on my words that anything further should come of it.

Cause it's made of straight lines, which are easy to draw with stone tools.
So the swastika is just the biggests coincedance (sp) in the world then?

Think of the children!!! Will somebody please think of the....ah fuck 'em.
Something just occured to me. As far as I know the swastica, in one form or another, exists/existed on every continent. Ancient celts. ancient Germans, Greeks, Indo-Aryans, Injuns, Chinese etc............
How comes?
i dont know but it IS common

i went to see the mikado in the kiva theater in downtown albuquerque.
its a pre-1930 theater with original decorations. it was unsettling to see the swastikas all over the place.

So the swastika is just the biggests coincedance (sp) in the world then?

Probably ;).

The Native Americans even have it! And they had it far before contact with the west.

The arrogance is that all people in the west automatically assume that Swastikas are evil and anyone who has one is a racist. They are the racists.

(Another BTW- I am American.)
Explain to me how that is rascist.

1) Religion is not defined by race.
2)Would it not be "rascist" against the white people that used it?

Political correctness is a crock of shit. If I want to say "All Jewish people are subhuman hooknosed scum" I have the right to. It isn't until I take action on my words that anything further should come of it.
I agree but not everyone will. That is why a site like this needs to be PC. They can keep the most people happy that way.

:eek:
NAZIS WITH TIME MACHINES!!!
Ah yes. Of course. Why didn't I think of that? I knew there was a logical explanation. :D

The arrogance is that all people in the west automatically assume that Swastikas are evil and anyone who has one is a racist. They are the racists.

(Another BTW- I am American.)
If I say a soldier was killed in Iraq today, what would you assume the soldier's gender to be? If I said a guy scored 11 3 point shots in basketball today, what would you assume the player's race to be? Very few people in a Western message board are sufficiently Hindu as to want to place a Swastika in their flag. The vast majority of the people wanting to do that are racists. Similarily, not everyone buys a cake with the intention of eating it. But there are cake collectors out there.

So the swastika is just the biggests coincedance (sp) in the world then?
The sun being drawn as a diamond with lines radiating out from it is pretty universal as well. Lot's of things are coincendences.

Swastikas, left and right handed should be banned because the person paying for this site wants to ban them. It is that simple. No discussion is needed or useful.

It is not a matter of freedom of speech, this is a privately owned forum, the owner can set the rules as he or she wishes (in this case he.)

Explain to me how that is rascist.

1) Religion is not defined by race.
2)Would it not be "rascist" against the white people that used it?

Ok, so Racist wasn't the best word, but I think you get the point.

Yeah, if it's a private place, they can ban whatever they want. However, I'm talking about the general public, where Freedom of Speech should reign supreme.

But it's racist banning these Swastikas!

Just because some whack-job Nazi said, "We shall use Swastikas to represent our ideals" doesn't mean all Swastika people are evil.

Oh, and say it's "politically correct" to over 1 billion Hindus and Buddhists.

I'm sure they'll understand...

(BTW-I am not Hindu. I've just spent alot of my life Living in South Asia and the rest of the world, and the arrogance of the west sickens me.)
1. Buddhists don't give a fuck about the swastika. It's a good luck charm in a few places in Buddhist East Asia, but certainly it is not as symbolic as the cross is for Christians. it's absurd to reduce the buddhist belief system to a handful of trinkets and little symbols. Also, the swastika is not that important in Hindu religion. There's so many more important symbols, such as the Devanagri om, and few Hindus are going to care about the swastika. Wheareas swastikas are the main symbol of Nazism.

2. ALthough i don't think the swastika should be banned for anyone, the operators of this site have gone through this many times before and you're not going to change their mind.

3. A lot of traditionalist Hindus are racist and arrogant too... I think the caste system can be compared to many aspects of Nazism.

Swastikas, left and right handed should be banned because the person paying for this site wants to ban them. It is that simple. No discussion is needed or useful.

It is not a matter of freedom of speech, this is a privately owned forum, the owner can set the rules as he or she wishes (in this case he.)

Indeed this is true, but we're not living in Soviet Russia, we're on an internet forum. We can choose to allocate our time to debate whatever we wish to debate, and let's be honest; 98% of what we talk about is of no consequence anyway.

Yeah, if it's a private place, they can ban whatever they want. However, I'm talking about the general public, where Freedom of Speech should reign supreme.

Fine. NS is a private place, so Max can ban what he wants. You explicitly agreed to abide by its TOS when you created your nation. If you did not read the Terms of Service, as it appears some here have not, then that is your fault.

Ok, so Racist wasn't the best word, but I think you get the point.
You probably meant religouscist.

Fine. NS is a private place, so Max can ban what he wants. You explicitly agreed to abide by its TOS when you created your nation. If you did not read the Terms of Service, as it appears some here have not, then that is your fault.

Absolutely. I thought this whole thing was about having Swastikas in public, though.

98% of what we talk about is of no consequence anyway.
HEY asshole!!! I'm closing in on 5000 posts!!! And now you come and tell me all of those where in vain???!!!??? *hyperventilates like an astmatic hippo*
Can't be true......what is my purpose in life.....my posts do matter....will change the world.....AAAAAAHHH!!!! ;) ;) :p

HEY asshole!!! I'm closing in on 5000 posts!!! And now you come and tell me all of those where in vain???!!!??? *hyperventilates like an astmatic rhino*
Can't be true......what is my purpose in life.....my posts do matter....will change the world.....AAAAAAHHH!!!! :P ;)

not all.

100 of them meant something ;)

Absolutely. I thought this whole thing was about having Swastikas in public, though.

It's ab00t Swastikas in general.

Although I wish Max would allow them here...

I think any symbol that doesn't graphically depict violence and lude situations should be allowed.

Indeed this is true, but we're not living in Soviet Russia, we're on an internet forum. We can choose to allocate our time to debate whatever we wish to debate, and let's be honest; 98% of what we talk about is of no consequence anyway.

I agree that you can debate the subject, and it is an interesting debate, but it should not have been so explicitly linked to NS by the OP.
Now, we all know that the Nazi Swastika is a Symbol of Evil to the west, and to the world. Of course, this has lead to numerous bannings of the Swastika on many things(including NS Flags), due to the fact that the rich and powerful west says that "All Swastikas are evil and shouldn't be allowed." However, there is a fatal flaw in that thinking:

The highlighted part was the connection that I was referring to.

A generalised debate on the meaning and reaction to the swastika would not have provoked my response.

I think any symbol that doesn't graphically depict violence and lude situations should be allowed.
Depending on who you ask the swastika is a symbol of violence.

Depending on who you ask the swastika is a symbol of violence.

Or a symbol of peace.

Why is the world so darn conflicting?

Depending on who you ask the swastika is a symbol of violence.


if they say it is, then they are horribly uninformed

it is a good luck charm in hindu/buddhist culture.

hell, if i put a four leaf clover on a flag and killed a bunch of people, would it make the clover evil?

of course not.

Or a symbol of peace.

Why is the world so darn conflicting?
I think it's actually a symbol of power, it represents the sun or something. But the fact of the matter is that on this message board, if you see a swastika, it's probably because someone is trying to piss people rather than make an expression about their faith.

if they say it is, then they are horribly uninformed

it is a good luck charm in hindu/buddhist culture.

hell, if i put a four leaf clover on a flag and killed a bunch of people, would it make the clover evil?

of course not.

E-gads!

You just gave me the best flag idea EVER!

E-gads!

You just gave me the best flag idea EVER!


the clover-stica?

the swasticlover?

swasticlover... hehe :p

Swastikas are a part of our culture, not the Nazi one, and you can just back off, well use it on whatever we want.
We have a company here that uses our "swastika" as their logo and not a single person thinks ill of it.
When the Americans came here in WWII they took down the swastika on the German Embassy here but left that one alone because it had nothing to do with the Nazis and those were the guys fighting them. So if they did not find it offensive then all the people in the worl from here on out can say nothing.

if they say it is, then they are horribly uninformed

it is a good luck charm in hindu/buddhist culture.

hell, if i put a four leaf clover on a flag and killed a bunch of people, would it make the clover evil?

of course not.
So in a culture that is minimally represented in this environment, using a symbol that even in that culture is not widely used, justifies a symbol that is best known and most often used to depict racism and genocide? If you put a four leaf clover on a flag and killed 6 million people, it probably wouldn't matter, because it already has a connotation. The swastika didn't have a connotation before WWII, except in cultures that are not represented here.

It's ab00t Swastikas in general.

Read my earlier post about the swastika. To must HIndus and Buddhists swastikas are unimportant good luck charms. Buddhism and Hinduism both have much more important symbols and beliefs. Hindus identify themselves with the devanagri script om, and though buddhists decorate temples with all sorts of geometric shapes they're not going to walk around with swastika tattoos. Swastikas are simply not important and do not have much to do with deep-felt issues of faith. All the Buddhists and Hindus I know understand and accept why swastikas are so severely frowned upon here in the west. They understand the pain that millions sufferd under nazi regime, and Asians living in the west have much better things to do with their time than to quibble over a minor trivial issues.

dp

the clover-stica?

the swasticlover?

swasticlover... hehe :p

:)

:mad: A friend of mine gave me a necklace with a swastika on it because he knows that i am in fact a buddhist and buddhists believe its a good luck charm. i just happened to be wearing it one day, and a complete stranger came up and punched me in the stomach, saying that i was evil and should burn in "hell" :mad:

This has been debated countless times and it is not going to change.
The matter is closed.
Again.





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