NationStates Jolt Archive

Spawned from a certain thread . . . :p
Seriously, why are so many American liberals self-loathing? I don't understand why they can't just cope with the situation. It's like they (the self-haters) follow "When the going gets tough, drop out" as a creed.

We've all had bad presidents before, and heck, I both agree and disagree with Bush on various issues. And as a libertarian I would never choose to be born into any other country cept the good old US of A

Sour grapes? When was the last time the Democrats controlled all three branches of government? FDR? I'm sure it's happened before, but yeah, the DNC has "quitter" written all over it.

Libertarians!!! W00t!!

Hell, I'm a liberal and I'm staying put. America is fantastic.

When was the last time the Democrats controlled all three branches of government? FDR?

Bill Clinton -(ish).

Spawned from a certain thread . . . :p
Seriously, why are so many American liberals self-loathing? I don't understand why they can't just cope with the situation. It's like they (the self-haters) follow "When the going gets tough, drop out" as a creed.

We've all had bad presidents before, and heck, I both agree and disagree with Bush on various issues. And as a libertarian I would never choose to be born into any other country cept the good old US of A

I can't speak for people you describe as "self-haters" but I can tell you this much; many people take into account other's feelings when deciding on who to ally themselves with. You know, "voting with your feet"? Its a common principle, often used in States' Rights arguments. If you don't like it here, leave. If you like what someone else is doing, join them.

What works for the state can also work for the nation, no? If masses or induviduals don't like what's going on, and see no way to change it, why not leave if you can? Rather than suffer in a place that no longer welcomes you, strike out for places that stand for something else.

I would caution against saying that someone who wants to move is "self hating"...in fact I don't understand where you would get that interpretation at all. If anything they are resigning their citizenship in protest. Resigning in protest may not work all that well, depending on who's in power, but it announces the induvidual's intentions and beliefs.

Can you not imagine a situation where you'd rather leave a situation than stay and suffer? Have you never felt the desire to leave when things are headed in the wrong direction? Lets put this in the etreme example for effect: do you feel that military jets should not have ejection seats? That the soldier inside should just "tough it out" when the plan is in imminent danger?

Perhaps this interpretation of their actions can help you understand.

WOOT! I'm a libertarian!

I personally think Ireland and Switzerland have better governements, but I think I'll stay here in the US and try to push my libertarian agenda.

Libertarians rock!

America r0xz

I'm dysleic. whats your excuse?

I'm dysleic. whats your excuse?
I like typing in 1337 :D

Bill Clinton -(ish).
Only for two years, and Clinton was really very much right-wing.

WOOT! I'm a libertarian!

I personally think Ireland and Switzerland have better governements, but I think I'll stay here in the US and try to push my libertarian agenda.

Libertarians rock!
I don't think you would like it here. Drugs and abortion are illegal and our government, despite some lower tax rates than in other EU countries, is still fairly socialist.

What works for the state can also work for the nation, no? If masses or induviduals don't like what's going on, and see no way to change it, why not leave if you can? Rather than suffer in a place that no longer welcomes you, strike out for places that stand for something else.

Fine. Make every nation on the planet open her borders to any non-criminal persons who wish to emigrate and that stands up to any argument.

Edit: As you can see from my sig, I'm moving to the US ASAP, partly for these very reasons.

Hell, I'm a liberal and I'm staying put. America is fantastic.

Having two different opinions in the same place is what makes America great. Tough Guy makes it great.

The quitters are in a minority - a very small minority.

This is yet another opportunity to plug my libertarian cause. We believe in freedom and liberty. Small, less intrusive governement and one that doesn't do stupid, pointless things like regulate the airwaves and discriminate against gays. We believe in lower taxes and free market, also. That makes us superior to the dems and pubs, wouldn't you agree? There's also some republicans and democrats that run who are close to us, like Ron Paul of Texas.

Well, here's our party site, with some libertarian news along with our platform:

www.lp.org

and here's our wiki, which does a pretty good job of describing our beliefs, even if it isn't very flattering:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

And here's a site about Ayn Rand, who was pretty close to us philosophically:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer

Having two different opinions in the same place is what makes America great. Tough Guy makes it great.

The quitters are in a minority - a very small minority.

Same to you, WL.

I really don't blame people for leaving if they feel they will fit better somewhere else, but it is in poor taste to insult those who actually enjoy it here.

And here's a site about Ayn Rand, who was pretty close to us philosophically:
Ironically she didn't want to have much to do with the LP :D
But hey, it was reading her novels that made me become libertarian in the 1st place

Abortion's illegal? Wow. THAT'S right wing. If my state of Mississippi had it's way abortion would be illegal here too. Drugs are illegal everywhere in the developed world except for the Netherlands, though. And you have to pay 20% more taxes in the Netherlands thatn in the US, so I think I'll stay here. Gay marriage is legal for 20% of the US population at the moment, which is good. We're moving towards civil liberties. I personally believe the government should just stay the heck out of marriage, but as long as it's there, gay marriage should be legal.

I was referring mainly to Irelands brilliant economic policy. Your country is growing at 10% a year at the moment, which is unheard of for a developed economy.

Libertarians are cool. I always wanted to start the Bull Moose Party again. Make it a cross between the Reps and the Libertarians.
Self-hating USians like Mr. Moore really turn my stomach. I don't think all liberals (US use of the word) are self-hating USians, but many are.
I remember we had a party over here last year. About 50 people packed into a small apartment. Drinkin, carousen, toward the end all but about 10 people had left, I was in a slight daze on the couch and I heard a voice. . .
USian, "I don't think Bush is so bad, and we were right to get rid of Saddam."
Ozzy guest, "Bush is a bloodthirsty warmonger! He loves war and he loves to kill people! Its all a game to him!!!"
USian, "uh, yeah, uh, yeah you're right. I really hate Bush. We Americans love war."

I thought, You gutless swine. Had an intense desire to slap the man repeatedly.

Anyway, the Ozzy was a nutter, started talking about the fact that Sydney was one of the eight healing centers of the world because line of healing energies converged there and that his teacher had shown him how to tap these energies and heal people. 8 drunken idiots sat around in rapt attention, nodding and agreeing that yes, Sydney was a great healing center.

I left the room.

Anyway, go Bull Moose! Libertarians are alright and stuff.

Having two different opinions in the same place is what makes America great. Tough Guy makes it great.

The quitters are in a minority - a very small minority.
Only two opinions? That isn't that great.

I think most libertarians oppose the war in Iraq.. though that's just my own bias. I came to libertarians from the left, and most libertarians come from the right. You can consider me a left-libertarian, and the libertarian movement as a whole is mostly comprised of us and the more influential conservative libertarians. Then there's the anarchists, who are a minority. They mostly agree with us, though, because, hey, the small governement that we promise is better than the one that the dems and pubs have to offer.

Aren't Libertarians supposed to be isolationist?
Isolationism is something I am really torn over. It is very appealing and I constantly feel that the US should pull our soldiers out of foreign nations and refuse to become involved in disputes outside of our borders. Then I look at economic situations where US economic might depends upon our projection of power into areas and I think to survive as a powerful nation we must not be isolationist, then I tock back the other way. . . ooooo, very frustrating.
I do say, out of S. Korea and Japan and Europe quickly. Especially S. Korea, they deserve no help from us.

I always wanted to start the Bull Moose Party again. Make it a cross between the Reps and the Libertarians.
Wasn't Bull Moose a left-wing party?

This is yet another opportunity to plug my libertarian cause. We believe in freedom and liberty. Small, less intrusive governement and one that doesn't do stupid, pointless things like regulate the airwaves and discriminate against gays. We believe in lower taxes and free market, also. That makes us superior to the dems and pubs, wouldn't you agree? There's also some republicans and democrats that run who are close to us, like Ron Paul of Texas.

Well, here's our party site, with some libertarian news along with our platform:

www.lp.org


and here's our wiki, which does a pretty good job of describing our beliefs, even if it isn't very flattering:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

And here's a site about Ayn Rand, who was pretty close to us philosophically:

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer
You're only speaking of American Libertarians here (as in of the Libertarian Party) and not libertarianism as a general term.

Wasn't Bull Moose a left-wing party?

You dare to call Teddy a left winger!! *cough couch need some water hack cough* I am trembling, trembling in shock.
Bull Moose was an idea, a dream of what Reps should be!! Let us stride together forward toward the this beautiful land that the fruited plain could be under the total rule and dictatorship of Bull Moose!!

You're only speaking of American Libertarians here (as in of the Libertarian Party) and not libertarianism as a general term.

Oh, the other libertarians are almost dead anyway, and they only exist in Europe. I don't see why they don't just go ahead and join the liberals and socialists



Wasn't Bull Moose a left-wing party?

It was more libertarian than left. It was started by a Republican, anyway.

Aren't Libertarians supposed to be isolationist?

The cast majority of libertarians don't believe that we should go out and attack every nation on Earth, trying to shape it to our vision, but almost all of us agree that we need to get rid of trade protectionism. A notable exception would be Ron Paul.

Although I am a libertarian, if Badbarik is the candidate it will be difficult to vote for him. I am a libertarian and try to follow the likes of Friedman, Hayek, and others of the sort. I am disappointe din the LP now.

Fine. Make every nation on the planet open her borders to any non-criminal persons who wish to emigrate and that stands up to any argument.

Edit: As you can see from my sig, I'm moving to the US ASAP, partly for these very reasons.

Off topic: Are you from Leicester? I met someone from Leicester in Spain. Gary Nuby. I assume you don't know him.

The cast majority of libertarians don't believe that we should go out and attack every nation on Earth, trying to shape it to our vision, but almost all of us agree that we need to get rid of trade protectionism. A notable exception would be Ron Paul.
I believe the term is non-intervetionists, there is a difference.