NationStates Jolt Archive

Fundies keep telling us, "Go to Canada! Go to Canada!"

Well, I'm not a Canadian citizen and personally, I don't find bearded cavewomen attractive, nor do I like hockey, the French, igloos, yaks, or for my testacles to shrink to the size of raisins. However, for a while now, I've had a desperate need to escape this place. You people are insane and it's really no surprise that most of the world (sans those countries who desperately rely on your foreign aid) absolutely hate you. Even with the Iraqi war, Blair lost immense popularity and credibility with the people. Throughout the world, both Europe, Canada, and Australia, showed strong opposition to Bush as well as the war. In Australia, there were even several thousand people who got naked, joined hands, and spelled out the peace symbol.

If thousands of people are going to get naked and spell ANY symbol in opposition to what you're doing, I really believe you should rethink what you're doing. The Bush administration has paid journalists to put forth propaganda, locked up and tortured innocent people, and pretty much turned America into a police-state, with the Patriot Act. Now, many Conservatives say, "...BUT IT ISN'T ALL BUSH'S FAULT!" And you're quite right. It isn't. For this reason, you could say that, no, it isn't just Bush that is corrupt, but a majority of the government.

I'd signed a contract to join the Navy, but I morally object to paying taxes or serving the government in any way. I called the Center on Conscience and War (http://www.nisbco.org/) and I am not legally responsible until I am "officially" sworn in, at bootcamp. Since I'm both a British and an American citizen (dual-citizenship), tomorrow, I am applying for a passport and getting the hell out of this god-forsaken country.

God have mercy on you all. When your corrupt regime collapses and you are run by Microsoft and Wal-Mart, don't come crying to anyone for foreign aid. Because you are the absolute epitome of hypocrasy, selfishness, and ignorance. For those who have seen the movie, Office Space, America is the "Bill Lumbergh" of the world. Like the main character, I am sick of working under him, a slave under his corrupt, cold, "free market" ways. And so, I start a new life, a better life... in Britain. And while there's corruption there too, I'm sure, at least there's some spark of hope. But as for America, after discovering Bush was paying for propaganda and no one has immediately been prosecuted, I've totally lost what little faith I had in America.

Anything I can do to help get you on your way, just let me know. :)

Go you! What part of Britain are you moving to?

It's interesting that you oppose taxes AND serving the government in any way, and yet decided (?) to move/live here? Did you just not realize that taxes were a part of the system, by law, or that you might be requested to serve in some capacity or another?


The midwest isn't so bad, either, in my opinion.

To Clarify on Canada:
Southern Canada has no igloos.
Unlike Britain, we didn't go to Iraq.
Canadian women are not bearded (in point of fact, Pam Anderson was born in Canada, which I'm not sure is a thing to be proud of but at least demonstrates that point)
My nuts have never frozen to the size of raisins, and I live in N. Canada.

Other than that, are you seriously obsessed enough about politics to leave the country?

blah blah blah blah, whatever man. 100's of people like you say the same crap every year. "We hate America, we're going to Canada... or some other countries." I'll believe it when I see it.

Fundies keep telling us, "Go to Canada! Go to Canada!"

Well, I'm not a Canadian citizen and personally, I don't find bearded cavewomen attractive, nor do I like hockey, the French, igloos, yaks, or for my testacles to shrink to the size of raisins. However, for a while now, I've had a desperate need to escape this place. You people are insane and it's really no surprise that most of the world (sans those countries who desperately rely on your foreign aid) absolutely hate you. Even with the Iraqi war, Blair lost immense popularity and credibility with the people. Throughout the world, both Europe, Canada, and Australia, showed strong opposition to Bush as well as the war. In Australia, there were even several thousand people who got naked, joined hands, and spelled out the peace symbol.

If thousands of people are going to get naked and spell ANY symbol in opposition to what you're doing, I really believe you should rethink what you're doing. The Bush administration has paid journalists to put forth propaganda, locked up and tortured innocent people, and pretty much turned America into a police-state, with the Patriot Act. Now, many Conservatives say, "...BUT IT ISN'T ALL BUSH'S FAULT!" And you're quite right. It isn't. For this reason, you could say that, no, it isn't just Bush that is corrupt, but a majority of the government.

I'd signed a contract to join the Navy, but I morally object to paying taxes or serving the government in any way. I called the Center on Conscience and War (http://www.nisbco.org/) and I am not legally responsible until I am "officially" sworn in, at bootcamp. Since I'm both a British and an American citizen (dual-citizenship), tomorrow, I am applying for a passport and getting the hell out of this god-forsaken country.

God have mercy on you all. When your corrupt regime collapses and you are run by Microsoft and Wal-Mart, don't come crying to anyone for foreign aid. Because you are the absolute epitome of hypocrasy, selfishness, and ignorance. For those who have seen the movie, Office Space, America is the "Bill Lumbergh" of the world. Like the main character, I am sick of working under him, a slave under his corrupt, cold, "free market" ways. And so, I start a new life, a better life... in Britain. And while there's corruption there too, I'm sure, at least there's some spark of hope. But as for America, after discovering Bush was paying for propaganda and no one has immediately been prosecuted, I've totally lost what little faith I had in America.

Hey, I'm a Libertairan, and I think America has a lot of improvements that can be made... but where are you going where the gov. is so much better?

I hated my country, i left. You should too if it's that bad.

To Clarify on Canada:
Southern Canada has no igloos.
Unlike Britain, we didn't go to Iraq.
Canadian women are not bearded (in point of fact, Pam Anderson was born in Canada, which I'm not sure is a thing to be proud of but at least demonstrates that point)
My nuts have never frozen to the size of raisins, and I live in N. Canada.

Other than that, are you seriously obsessed enough about politics to leave the country?

How are the tacos up there?

In my opinion, all of the modern world reeks of capitalism and authoritarianism.

I think he was speaking specifically of America, as in he objected to aiding the American government in any way...

How are the tacos up there?

We've got Taco Bell or Taco Time. If you live in one of the big centres though, you can get just about any kind of "ethnic" food.

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

blah blah blah blah, whatever man. 100's of people like you say the same crap every year. "We hate America, we're going to Canada... or some other countries." I'll believe it when I see it.
My friend's family moved up here for poli reasons.

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Let's not forget he has to get his parents' permission first.. "Son, I know what your teacher told you about the government, but you're only in the fifth grade, and we don't think they employ ten-year-olds in England, either." :p

England is so messed up IMO. I'm sorry, but I totally hate Tony Blair. And I have the misfortune of living in it. But then again, I wouldn't like to live in America under Bush either. No. When, or if, I get to move out, it's Japan for me.

Plutophobia, you can't just give up like that!
I lived in Germany last year, and had the opportunity to have a personal exodus from this god-forsaken country. But I didn't. I moved back because America is still going to suck if we leave. I have a commitment to all my fellow liberals to help instill revolutionary ideas, buy guns and help to fund some freedom fighters. It is no good to leave when all we have to do to make this country a better place is to :sniper: some people, mostly certain corporate business owners, but some politicians as well.

Unlike Britain, we didn't go to Iraq.


tell that to my uncle, currentlyserving in Baghdad.

tell that to my uncle, currentlyserving in Baghdad.

Clarification: Unlike Britain, we didn't officially go to Iraq. Obviously exchange programs and the like are excluded from that statement.
Thanks Jean Chretien!

I hated my country, i left. You should too if it's that bad.


What country did you leave? Where do you live now? Why did you choose to leave?

Plutophobia, you can't just give up like that!
I lived in Germany last year, and had the opportunity to have a personal exodus from this god-forsaken country. But I didn't. I moved back because America is still going to suck if we leave. I have a commitment to all my fellow liberals to help instill revolutionary ideas, buy guns and help to fund some freedom fighters. It is no good to leave when all we have to do to make this country a better place is to :sniper: some people, mostly certain corporate business owners, but some politicians as well.

Liberals are the ones trying to ban guns I thought.

Go you! What part of Britain are you moving to?
No idea yet. I need to call my uncle's family, and ask them where they're out. Somewhere in Scotland, I believe. I'm only going to stay with them until the British Navy takes me, anyway.

It's interesting that you oppose taxes AND serving the government in any way, and yet decided (?) to move/live here? Did you just not realize that taxes were a part of the system, by law, or that you might be requested to serve in some capacity or another?
Oh no, I understand that Britain taxes a great deal more. I don't oppose taxes. I oppose taxes which are used to torture innocent people or spread propaganda. But taxes, in general, are a very good thing. Britain spends a substantial amount on social welfare. So, they have a lower poverty rate than the U.S., and as a result, also less crime.

To Clarify on Canada:
Southern Canada has no igloos.
Unlike Britain, we didn't go to Iraq.
Canadian women are not bearded (in point of fact, Pam Anderson was born in Canada, which I'm not sure is a thing to be proud of but at least demonstrates that point)
My nuts have never frozen to the size of raisins, and I live in N. Canada.

Other than that, are you seriously obsessed enough about politics to leave the country?
No, it's just politics. But morally, I'd feel guilty. According the Uniform Code of Military Justice, speaking disloyally is a crime, punishable by a huge fine and up to several years in prison. I'm sure, with the way I view things, and only being half-American, I'd end up getting in trouble for that. And plus, my uncle in Scotland is dying and I've wanted to live in Britain for a long time now, due to the statistics I've seen of their country. Even my own father has been wanting to go back to Britain for a while now, too, but has just had obligations here.

Hey, I'm a Libertairan, and I think America has a lot of improvements that can be made... but where are you going where the gov. is so much better?
You are a libertarian. I am not. I tend to agree with European multilateralist and Socialist views.

Let's not forget he has to get his parents' permission first.. "Son, I know what your teacher told you about the government, but you're only in the fifth grade, and we don't think they employ ten-year-olds in England, either." :p
Hah. Fifth grade teachers indoctrinating? What has the world come to?!

No idea yet. I need to call my uncle's family, and ask them where they're out. Somewhere in Scotland, I believe. I'm only going to stay with them until the British Navy takes me, anyway.


Oh no, I understand that Britain taxes a great deal more. I don't oppose taxes. I oppose taxes which are used to torture innocent people or spread propaganda. But taxes, in general, are a very good thing. Britain spends a substantial amount on social welfare. So, they have a lower poverty rate than the U.S., and as a result, also less crime.


No, it's just politics. But morally, I'd feel guilty. According the Uniform Code of Military Justice, speaking disloyally is a crime, punishable by a huge fine and up to several years in prison. I'm sure, with the way I view things, and only being half-American, I'd end up getting in trouble for that. And plus, my uncle in Scotland is dying and I've wanted to live in Britain for a long time now, due to the statistics I've seen of their country. Even my own father has been wanting to go back to Britain for a while now, too, but has just had obligations here.


You are a libertarian. I am not. I tend to agree with European multilateralist and Socialist views.


Hah. Fifth grade teachers indoctrinating? What has the world come to?!

More crime? Ofcoarse theres more crime when we have a bigger population. I could be wrong, but I thought England's crimerate percentage is higher already and steadily increasing?

Bon Voyage. I wish you well in your new country.

Liberals are the ones trying to ban guns I thought.


True, but I am a revolutionary Marxist, and I love that you conservatives want more guns, it's good for me :p

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
Ageed.

And since you have already insulted Canada in your post, where are you going to go when you have decided that the UK doesn't live up to your lofty ideas ?

And referring to America as " You people " when you are a US citizen, just takes away from your arguments.

Rather than leaving the country, why not stay and try to make a difference ? Or would that be too much effort on your part ?

England is so messed up IMO. I'm sorry, but I totally hate Tony Blair. And I have the misfortune of living in it. But then again, I wouldn't like to live in America under Bush either. No. When, or if, I get to move out, it's Japan for me.
Are you aware that Japan is also right-wing and participated in the Iraq war?

Tell your story walking

And since you have already insulted Canada in your post, where are you going to go when you have decided that the UK doesn't live up to your lofty ideas ?

And referring to America as " You people " when you are a US citizen, just takes away from your arguments.

Rather than leaving the country, why not stay and try to make a difference ? Or would that be too much effort on your part ?

Well said. We don't need any more whingeing America-hating quitters in the UK.

Anyone who wants a real Liberal place to live should go to the Netherlands or Scandinavia.
Oh, and enjoy the taxes. I think that they're a fair trade off, but it's surprising how many Americans don't realize how low their taxes (and gas prices) really are.

Since you can't cope with the situation and aren't up to helping the situation, goodbye and goodluck. When you find that the only difference is the language, accent, or currency, do yourself a favor and try not to insult the citizens of your new country.

Honestly I don't care Plutophobia... the more of you who move away the less opposition that libertarians face

Are you aware that Japan is also right-wing and participated in the Iraq war?
Ack! Like I said, the world is screwed up. If only there was an ungoverned island somewhere in the middle of nowhere, I would claim it and then I wouldn't need to worry about bigheaded governments pushing people around.

Rather than leaving the country, why not stay and try to make a difference ? Or would that be too much effort on your part ?

Nearly 50 million people tried and failed to make a difference last November. No offence, but what do you suggest he does?

Are you aware that Japan is also right-wing and participated in the Iraq war?


While I would agree that Japan is fairly right-wing, the Japanese troops in Iraq do not engage in any fighting. They are there to rebuild the infrastructure of Iraq only. Article 9 of their constitution still prohibits them from using force to settle international arguments. In fact, Article 9 also prohibits Japan from maintaining a standing military force, so their troops are referred to as "Self-Defence Forces". It's likely that Article 9 will be changed soon, but for now I would argue that Japan didn't "participate" in the war.

Atleast move to Switzerland, probably the best of the European countries. They have virtually no crime rate. They have many freedoms the US does not even have. They are probably taxed out to hell like the rest of Europe but so what if you planning on moving anyway.

Anything I can do to help get you on your way, just let me know. :)

We'll be glad to buy you, and Alec Baldwin, a one-way ticket out of America.

you really think that the government of the UK is that much better?

the list of things that are messed up in the UK is long enough that even *I* could go on for quite a while. (not that im trying to diss the UK, y'all are fine by me, just not any kind of utopia)

id start with the monarchy and end with the troubles of northern ireland. if those 2 things alone arent enough to make you question how politically superior they are, then you must be living in some kind of dream world. (then go look at all the unmentioned things inbetween)

on the other hand, its not a bad choice. the UK is a great country with lots of history. cool people. nice landscapes. fun traditions. and they speak english (after a fashion). since you are already a citizen, its as legitimate a choice as staying in the US.

just dont expect things to be run any better than they are here. people are people; it doesnt get much better.

That's funny. I barely see any of the government in America except once a year when income taxes roll around. Are you dodging income taxes?

We'll be glad to buy you, and Alec Baldwin, a one-way ticket out of America.
I'll pitch in! Lets get Rose O'Donnell why we are at it, also!

Ageed.

And since you have already insulted Canada in your post, where are you going to go when you have decided that the UK doesn't live up to your lofty ideas ?
That was a joke. I don't hate Canada and they're nice people, I'm sure. Their educational system and healthcare is superior to America's. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy making fun of them. Political correctness is for nazis, fags, dykes, niggers, crackers (or "honkies"), kikes, Chinamen, and ragheads, not me (unless I'm forced to, for whatever reason).

Now, you might find that offensive, but I'm not racist against any of those people. I oppose racism in every form. But the ultimate way to prevent racism is to get it out in the open and discuss it. Many racist individuals are ignorant because their ideals are never openly-challenged or talked about. It would be a great day, in the world, to see David Duke debate with the head of the Anti-Defamation League.

And referring to America as " You people " when you are a US citizen, just takes away from your arguments.
I'd rather not consider myself an 'American', so 'you people' is used properly. I'm also different, having a father from Scotland and a grandmother from Ireland. Besides, going back just a few generations, my heritage is mostly Canadian and British. I know it's not genetic, but I don't even really identify with American culture. None of my peers are interested in debating politics, very few read the news regularly, and the vast majority are only going to college to get a job. That's not who I am.

Rather than leaving the country, why not stay and try to make a difference ? Or would that be too much effort on your part ?
Why help people who won't help themselves? Why care about people who don't even care about themselves? No. It's a lost cause. The corrupt government has far too much power here and there is no hope. Based on the philosophy of Mortalism, I'm writing, all goverments inevitably go through corruption and decline. It can't be 'reversed', either, at least not to the extent that America would require.

With past issues, like the suffrage movement or civil rights movement, people united because they wanted one issue changed. This is not one issue. This is a variety of issues stemming from one source. When our government can fabricate evidence justifying an unjustifiable war, when they can be allowed to put forth propaganda using taxpayer funds, and when our low-ranking military officers face the brunt of punishment for prison torture exposed, that was only allowed because of the government refusing to give prisoners basic rights, such as seeing lawyers and the Red Cross, I cannot have any faith in this country.

you really think that the government of the UK is that much better?

the list of things that are messed up in the UK is long enough that even *I* could go on for quite a while. (not that im trying to diss the UK, y'all are fine by me, just not any kind of utopia)

id start with the monarchy and end with the troubles of northern ireland. if those 2 things alone arent enough to make you question how politically superior they are, then you must be living in some kind of dream world. (then go look at all the unmentioned things inbetween)

on the other hand, its not a bad choice. the UK is a great country with lots of history. cool people. nice landscapes. fun traditions. and they speak english (after a fashion). since you are already a citizen, its as legitimate a choice as staying in the US.

just dont expect things to be run any better than they are here. people are people; it doesnt get much better.

Well, the UK government seems to be run by a man who is supposed to be Labour Party, but his political compass is to the right of me - which is saying something. That, and they seem to want to keep pushing things further than the Patriot Act ever goes (right now, it goes back and forth, but they keep trying). In a land with no real constitutional guarantees, that's an iffy situation.

Move to the Cayman Islands.

We'll be glad to buy you, and Alec Baldwin, a one-way ticket out of America.


Wait? Alec Baldwin DIDNT leave? I thought he declared he would leavee the US if Bush were elected???? I cant believe it!
Here I am thinking the two scumbag roles he played in The Cat in The Hat and The Aviator were filmed in france or something.

damn

Nearly 50 million people tried and failed to make a difference last November. No offence, but what do you suggest he does?

I was one of those 50 million people who tried and failed last November.
Political power doesn't just mean who we elect as President.
He could:

1. get involved in local and grass roots politics.
2. be aware of the local issues and seats of office that need to be filled and vote accordingly. ( It's a trickle-UP theory- get enough people in the lower offices to get enough people in the higher offices )
3. Educate himself about the pros and cons of various issues and be willing and able to engage in intelligent debate and conversation with people of varying views.
4. stop using phrases like " I'm a Liberal " - a Liberal what ? define your own politics before you flame someone else's.
5. Write t his Senator and Congressmen ( every letter counts - strength in numbers )

6. Participate in peaceful protest movements.
7. start gearing up for the 2008 elections - and be ready to volunteer time and services to the party of his choice.

And yes, before you ask - I DO do these things. Maybe not as often or zealously as I should ... I hope to be even more involved ( maybe even hold a lower public office ) in the next few years.


And PLEEEEEEAAAASEEE !! Can we stop throwing around terms like "Liberal" and " Neo-con " - those terms are thrown around so much that they have become a farce.

And before anyone asks - I am a Conservative Democrat . ( Notice the specifics there ) ;)

I'll pitch in! Lets get Rose O'Donnell why we are at it, also!

are you kidding? the stampede of bovine housewives marching into the sea to follow her would be tragic!

Wait? Alec Baldwin DIDNT leave? I thought he declared he would leavee the US if Bush were elected???? I cant believe it!
Here I am thinking the two scumbag roles he played in The Cat in The Hat and The Aviator were filmed in france or something.

damn

No, he didn't leave, because he's a lying two-faced whiner.

No, he didn't leave, because he's a lying two-faced whiner.
Like Kerry?

Since you can't cope with the situation and aren't up to helping the situation, goodbye and goodluck. When you find that the only difference is the language, accent, or currency, do yourself a favor and try not to insult the citizens of your new country.
The British military has begun openly recruiting gays. I think that shows a huge difference between our countries.

No, he didn't leave, because he's a lying two-faced whiner.


yep-he is quite a douche.

The British military has begun openly recruiting gays. I think that shows a huge difference between our countries.

I was in the US Army from 1987 to 1991. I met many gays in the military who were serving openly. Of course, this was when that sort of thing was left to the unit commander's discretion.

When Clinton (a man who has no idea of what "orders" mean in the military) made the "don't ask don't tell", he made it a Presidential Order. Which means that a unit commander no longer had any choice in the matter.

Which resulted in more gays being thrown out of the military in the two Clinton terms than had been thrown out in the entire history of the US military combined.

Good job, Bill.

you really think that the government of the UK is that much better?

the list of things that are messed up in the UK is long enough that even *I* could go on for quite a while. (not that im trying to diss the UK, y'all are fine by me, just not any kind of utopia)

id start with the monarchy and end with the troubles of northern ireland. if those 2 things alone arent enough to make you question how politically superior they are, then you must be living in some kind of dream world. (then go look at all the unmentioned things inbetween)

on the other hand, its not a bad choice. the UK is a great country with lots of history. cool people. nice landscapes. fun traditions. and they speak english (after a fashion). since you are already a citizen, its as legitimate a choice as staying in the US.

just dont expect things to be run any better than they are here. people are people; it doesnt get much better.
Yeah, I agree. The UK is so messed up. If you want to lead a good liberal life, move along please, nothing to see here. Even the famous British countryside stinks, quite literally of cowpoop. In summer it rains, in winter it snows, any other time it's overcast. The grass is never too green on any side of the fence, and the Industrial Revolution has left a thick grey cloud of pollution permanently over the area I live in. What's more, the government STINKS.

Like Kerry?


how dare you categorize kerry like that!! -why, its reminiscent of Jenjis Khan.

Dear god, it will be so easy to fix America! All we on the left need are enough guns in the right place, at the right time.

And conservative hunting. Lots and lots of conservative hunting. :p

how dare you categorize kerry like that!! -why, its reminiscent of Jenjis Khan.
:D :D :D :D :D

I was in the US Army from 1987 to 1991. I met many gays in the military who were serving openly. Of course, this was when that sort of thing was left to the unit commander's discretion.

When Clinton (a man who has no idea of what "orders" mean in the military) made the "don't ask don't tell", he made it a Presidential Order. Which means that a unit commander no longer had any choice in the matter.

Which resulted in more gays being thrown out of the military in the two Clinton terms than had been thrown out in the entire history of the US military combined.

Good job, Bill.

You were in the military- didnt you cringe when clinton threw a half a salute and grin at a marine as he go off the Marine One helicopter? He and his wife had such disdain for the military. It really tarnished the term "Commander in Chief" .

You were in the military- didnt you cringe when clinton threw a half a salute and grin at a marine as he go off the Marine One helicopter? He and his wife had such disdain for the military. It really tarnished the term "Commander in Chief" .

It is the number one reason I left the military. I enjoyed working alongside many good soldiers who were openly gay. To a man, they say that Clinton, not the Republicans, fucked them without the courtesy of a reacharound, because he didn't understand the implications of what he was doing - because he had no objective military experience.

Dear god, it will be so easy to fix America! All we on the left need are enough guns in the right place, at the right time.

And conservative hunting. Lots and lots of conservative hunting. :p


and in the right hands-certainly not your own

Well, the UK government seems to be run by a man who is supposed to be Labour Party, but his political compass is to the right of me - which is saying something. That, and they seem to want to keep pushing things further than the Patriot Act ever goes (right now, it goes back and forth, but they keep trying). In a land with no real constitutional guarantees, that's an iffy situation.

Move to the Cayman Islands.

Are the Cayman Islands not a British territory?

I advise you move to Canada. Montreal is very nice in my experience.

Wherever you go, keep your citizenship. If you give that up, you'll only reduce the little bit of opposition left. You can still vote absentee.

Dear god, it will be so easy to fix America! All we on the left need are enough guns in the right place, at the right time.

And conservative hunting. Lots and lots of conservative hunting. :p
Or find the Conservative gene and abort them before they get the chance to speak.

In my opinion, the right to intelligence is far more important than the right life.

And by the way, isn't it funny Conservatives tell us to leave, but when we mention that we're leaving, they get offended? I didn't always hate America. But the Patriotism we have feels instilled, indoctrinated. The way the revolutionary war is described is absolute nonsense. For years, even the entire story of Christopher Columbus's voyage was fabricated. If they're told the truth, when they're young, "Yes. We came here, killed the Indians, and took over", I don't think this patriotism would last. But no, instead, children are (or at least were) taught that Columbus came over here and had milk and cookies with the native tribes.

The only thing I could really be patriotic of, is the major founders of our government. They deserve it. But as for the Puritan heritage... the reason our government was founded... the current state of our goverment.. etc. No.

Dear god, it will be so easy to fix America! All we on the left need are enough guns in the right place, at the right time.

And conservative hunting. Lots and lots of conservative hunting. :p

I laugh whenever I read that sort of thing on Democratic Underground.

It's even funnier to see how ignorant they are of even the basics of firearms use.

You won't see a "left' Democrat anywhere near a gun. Conservative Democrats maybe, but not the sort of person who will help you.

It is the number one reason I left the military. I enjoyed working alongside many good soldiers who were openly gay. To a man, they say that Clinton, not the Republicans, fucked them without the courtesy of a reacharound, because he didn't understand the implications of what he was doing - because he had no objective military experience.

It even goes beyond not having objective military experience- he had no honor of or respect for the military. He openly despised the military. How upset do you think he was after Mogadishu? I know its just speculation at this point. His wife concerns me even more...

I laugh whenever I read that sort of thing on Democratic Underground.

It's even funnier to see how ignorant they are of even the basics of firearms use.

You won't see a "left' Democrat anywhere near a gun. Conservative Democrats maybe, but not the sort of person who will help you.
Not entirely true. I'm a fairly liberal democrat. I used to work at Wal-Mart and I handled firearms. I've never shot one, but I know what you mean, sort of. Firearms aren't as dangerous as they say. In fact, the current evidence shows that Federal gun control is neither good, nor bad. In my opinion, some of it should be repealed, and let states decide their individual laws.

Oh, and more research needs to be done.

And by the way, isn't it funny Conservatives tell us to leave, but when we mention that we're leaving, they get offended? I didn't always hate America.
Finally, someone else noticed that.

I laugh whenever I read that sort of thing on Democratic Underground.
It's even funnier to see how ignorant they are of even the basics of firearms use.
You won't see a "left' Democrat anywhere near a gun. Conservative Democrats maybe, but not the sort of person who will help you.
Darn you beat me to that :)

Not true. I used to work at Wal-Mart and I handled firearms. I've never shot one, but I know what you mean. Firearms aren't as dangerous as they say. In fact, the current evidence shows that Federal gun control is neither good, nor bad. In my opinion, some of it should be repealed, and let states decide their individual laws.

The problem is that the typical Republican owns, shoots, etc. Probably has military experience as well.

The typical far left version of the Democrats never owned a gun. And despises the military and would never serve.

Just look at the percentages of people who serve in the US military. By and large, they are Republicans.

The British military has begun openly recruiting gays. I think that shows a huge difference between our countries.

Actually, if you are homosexual, I could see why you would want to leave. There are some very loud voices in this nation who really despise you.

Or find the Conservative gene and abort them before they get the chance to speak.

In my opinion, the right to intelligence is far more important than the right life.

And by the way, isn't it funny Conservatives tell us to leave, but when we mention that we're leaving, they get offended? I didn't always hate America. But the Patriotism we have feels instilled, indoctrinated. The way the revolutionary war is described is absolute nonsense. For years, even the entire story of Christopher Columbus's voyage was fabricated. If they're told the truth, when they're young, "Yes. We came here, killed the Indians, and took over", I don't think this patriotism would last. But no, instead, children are (or at least were) taught that Columbus came over here and had milk and cookies with the native tribes.

The only thing I could really be patriotic of, is the major founders of our government. They deserve it. But as for the Puritan heritage... the reason our government was founded... the current state of our goverment.. etc. No.

I know-they are busy revising history right now to make everyone feel all warm and cuddly with each other, except the eurocentric male, who of course are the root of all that is evil. The eurocentric male that only discovered, developed, created and built everything that is still standing today-no doubt on the blood of those he conquered. And for some reason is being undermined by his own self-loathing kind.
Who cares? I thought you were leaving?

Actually, if you are homosexual, I could see why you would want to leave. There are some very loud voices in this nation who really despise you.
Not me. I was in the military and served gladly with gays. I'm a Christian Fundamentalist (a Pentacostal) and I vote Republican.

Gays can do whatever they want, in my opinion, including getting married or serving in the military.

The problem is that the typical Republican owns, shoots, etc. Probably has military experience as well.

The typical far left version of the Democrats never owned a gun. And despises the military and would never serve.

Just look at the percentages of people who serve in the US military. By and large, they are Republicans.


Im interested though to see the statistics on democrats killed and killing with illegal guns.If I'm not mistaken, a majority of gun crimes are committed in the inner cities, where a majority of the population tends to be democrats.
Maybe I'm wrong. Just speculating again.

Okay we're doing the label thing again.
A Conservative Democrat is far different than a Conservative Republican.
It's an ADJECTIVE people, not a NOUN :headbang:

So.. to ironically go back and label myself again...
Conservative Democrat

I own guns. :sniper:
I support the NRA

Most of my friends ( with many different political views ) do also.

it's not just about guns ..if only it were that simple..... :(

Just look at the percentages of people who serve in the US military. By and large, they are Republicans.
The problem with America isn't that we are to patriotic, there's just too many of us that are patriotic. We need people like that in the military, but we don't only need people like that. But too many people take it too far so that a moderate is someone I would consider extremely patriotic.
I can't stand it whenever I hear anyone saying "Anti-Bush is Anti-American". Something like that reminds me of one-party dictatorships in Germany and Russia.

I laugh whenever I read that sort of thing on Democratic Underground.

It's even funnier to see how ignorant they are of even the basics of firearms use.

You won't see a "left' Democrat anywhere near a gun. Conservative Democrats maybe, but not the sort of person who will help you.


It also speaks volumes that, even in jest, there is a suggestion of using guns to hunt those you disagree with. It shows the degree of tolerance. It leans more toward fascism.

and in the right hands-certainly not your own


Hey, if I'm willing to do something about this country, then those guns sure as hell belong in me and my fellow leftist's hands.

Im interested though to see the statistics on democrats killed and killing with illegal guns.If I'm not mistaken, a majority of gun crimes are committed in the inner cities, where a majority of the population tends to be democrats.
Maybe I'm wrong. Just speculating again.


The majority of crime guns are not purchased at the gun stored. They are stolen or smuggled. In most inner cities, gun possession is completely illegal. These also happen to be solid blue areas. So we might conclude that die-hard Democrats only use illegal guns illegally.

It would be an interesting study.

Ttttttaaaaaaakkkkkkkkkkkeeeeeeeee Mmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeee

I'm Flexible, I Can Fit Into A Suitcase If I Have To. Take Meee Pleasee!!!!

It also speaks volumes that, even in jest, there is a suggestion of using guns to hunt those you disagree with. It shows the degree of tolerance. It leans more toward fascism.


The right isn't at all innocent. Liberals never practice violence on Conservatives. When was the last time you can remember a liberal murdering a group of conservatives? Never. Not even in the news. But you guys sure are good at bombing abortion clinics and federal buildings eh? Why is it that you will practice violence and your intellectual leaders will condone it (Ann Coulter, to name one)?

Hypocrites to criticize us leftists. At least we only want to harm the elite, not our fellow masses.

This is not written by me. But you people should read it.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/07/blue_state_to_reds/

An open letter to the Red-State victors:

With hard work and superb organization, you have triumphed over John Kerry and the forces of Blue-state paternalism. Congratulations. The multinational corporations that hold you in bondage remain free to profit off your sweat nearly tax free, while their overpaid senior execs continue to pay a pittance in personal income tax.
Click Here

Your primary and secondary schools will continue to turn out third-rate pupils with limited opportunities, while you enjoy the satisfaction of making it on your own without health care when a catastrophic illness bankrupts your family.

Your agricultural universities will continue issuing Ph.D.s in football, and bogus Protestant Evangelical and Fundamentalist theology, and how to jerk off a bull safely. Your children will learn to borrow enough money to erect chicken houses so that they, like you, can take custody -- not possession, but custody -- of Tyson's chicks, feed them, rear them, assume losses from those that fail to thrive, and in the end earn just enough money to service their endless debt, and realize a profit of perhaps $12K a year. Your bank thanks you; Tyson thanks you; George W. Bush thanks you; and I thank you.

You can continue sending your sons to die in Iraq on a fool's errand. When you bury them, you can console yourselves with Bush's platitudes about their heroic mission to defend America from weapons of mass destruction.

You can savor the deficit spending that stimulates commerce today, but will cripple the US economy in ten or fifteen years' time when the bills come due with interest. Perhaps a Democrat will be in office at that time, who can be blamed for W's delayed economic fiasco.

You can continue believing, as Republican Party brainwashing has persuaded you, that we, your neighbors, are your enemies. You can believe that we have no morals; that we pimp out our teenage daughters for Internet porn; that we eat babies; that we are all gay; that we are cowards on the battlefield; and that we want to run your lives and give you AIDS.

Here's a clue: we are not your enemies; we are your countrymen. Your enemies are the greedy multinationals that the Republican Party bends over backwards to accommodate. Incidentally, most of them are based in Blue states, as are their Republican owners and major shareholders.

Here in the Blue States, Democrats and Republicans alike generate the lion's share of America's wealth, although it is you Reds who provide the lion's share of the stoop labor. You are our Mexicans, so to speak. We could not have accomplished the economic miracle that is America without your willing capitulation to a system that lies to you and fucks you over at every turn.

Look at economic output and educational achievement on a state-by-state basis: it's painfully evident that we Blues are immensely more productive and better educated than you Reds. We have lots more money. We live longer. We eat better. We work less. We fuck more. We do cocaine and smoke fine Canadian buds, not the homebrew crank and cheap Mexican headache reefer you guys are stuck with. We drink French wine and Stoli martinis, not Budweiser. Our children rarely bother us: we've got them on Ritalin and Prozac. Our teeth are straighter and whiter, our necks longer, and our fingernails cleaner. And many of us are the Republican elite who have just punked you.

It's good to be a Blue, regardless of which party you join.

Understandably, you resent us, so you've fabricated an imaginary measure of superiority: Christian "values." Yet you talk about values the way a pre-teen girl talks about "love" in fan letters to Ashton Kutcher. You recycle quasi-religious platitudes and received slogans. You know nothing of moral theology, a rigorous philosophical pursuit that hardly exists outside the Catholic Church and its elite universities. You make of the Bible what you will; you attend prayer meetings with other semi-literates, where you reinforce each other's sloppy understandings of the text, and combine them with half-digested bits of old-timey Hallmark-card "wisdom." And when you spout gibberish, you call it "speaking in tongues." You actually fancy that you're saints, you silly, narcissistic creatures.

Nevertheless, you are fellow Americans. The Blue Republican elite encouraged you to vote for George W Bush, because they quite simply own him, and they know that his administration will make policies that help them, even if hurt you. We Blue Democrats voted for John Kerry because we believed he would minister to your needs better than Bush. A President Kerry would have shared some of our wealth with you, assured your health care, raised the minimum wage, and checked the rapacious greed of the multinationals that hold you in thrall.

President Kerry would have helped us to help you, which is all that we ask. It pains us to see you in wage slavery. It pains us to see you so ignorant and uneducated, and so eager to place yourselves in bondage. Yes, we live better; but we wish you to live better too, even if it means sacrifice on our part.

What we wanted for you would have been far better than that which you, in your ignorant pride, demanded for yourselves. Oh, you defeated us all right, but only to your detriment.

We Blues will come out of the Bush era no worse for wear, although you Reds will come out very much diminished, deeper in debt, and less able to improve your circumstances by your own powers. But because you wish to be flattered more than helped, you will be grateful for your ass fucking from the Blue-state Republican elite that is laughing behind your backs today.

We did not wish it so. We honestly did want to help.

On 2 November, you thanked us by electing a shrewd, manipulative handmaiden to corporate America who panders to you while ruthlessly exploiting your ignorance and weakness for the benefit of his patrons in the national plutocracy. There is nothing we can do about that. You won fair and square.

We should let you rot. We should secede and leave you to fend for yourselves. Then you will see firsthand just how dependent you are. We are sick of fighting for you by fighting against you. Perhaps, when you see how dreary your lives have become without us, you will finally develop the spine to fight for your basic, human rights. And then we will gladly confront the plutocracy alongside you. We need your help to defeat the Blue Republicans, who, I assure you, are just as decadent as we are, though often richer.

But until you finally learn to respect yourselves, we can't respect you, and we therefore can't be bothered to give a rat's ass about you.

So let us secede, Blue America and Red America. We can handle the Blue state Republicans, so long as we don't have a lot of ignorant Red state lemmings frustrating our efforts and screwing themselves in the bargain. Secession will enable us both to live as we have chosen without the other's interference. We will prosper, and you will get a clue.

But do stay in touch after the borders slam shut. When you finally tire of living on the modern, corporate plantations of Cargill, Tyson, ConAgra and Smithfield; when you tire of shopping at Wal-Mart and sending your daughters to sling hash at Denny's in hopes that they'll meet the nicer sort of truck driver; when you tire of sneaking into Blue America as illegal white-trash wetbacks eager for casual work dusting our parlors; and when, like men, you finally rise up in rebellion against this immoral usury -- then, and only then, let us talk.

We'll gladly get your backs. But first you must grow the brains and the balls needed to profit from our help. ®

The right isn't at all innocent. Liberals never practice violence on Conservatives. When was the last time you can remember a liberal murdering a group of conservatives? Never. Not even in the news. But you guys sure are good at bombing abortion clinics and federal buildings eh? Why is it that you will practice violence and your intellectual leaders will condone it (Ann Coulter, to name one)?

Hypocrites to criticize us leftists. At least we only want to harm the elite, not our fellow masses.

Never say never. In the last US election liberals shot at several Republican campaign offices, slashed tires on buses meant to drive Rep voters to the polls, they stormed a couple of campaign headquarters and destroyed property. Liberals kill loggers in the Pacific Northwest by driving metal stakes into trees so chainsaws explode.
Each political side has its share of nutcases. Never is almost never a true statement.

Honestly, the truth is... I took that letter of the revocation of America's independence literally, because it is both rational and sane. And if there's going to be another revolutionary war, I'd rather be on the side that would win: the European Union, instead of...

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/11/images/04new_map.jpg

The majority of crime guns are not purchased at the gun stored. They are stolen or smuggled. In most inner cities, gun possession is completely illegal. These also happen to be solid blue areas. So we might conclude that die-hard Democrats only use illegal guns illegally.

It would be an interesting study.


Ok-so I'm not nuts and not biasedly speculating-this pretty much sums up what I was thinking.

Honestly, the truth is... I took that letter of the revocation of America's independence literally, because it is both rational and sane. And if there's going to be another revolutionary war, I'd rather be on the side that would win: the European Union, instead of...

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/11/images/04new_map.jpg


When will you drop this retarded notion? The US Postal Service would annihilate the "European Union". They are better armed and more agressive. certainly more courageous. And better able to make up there mind and just do something.
I have this cool image in my head of uniformed postal workers (in summer shorts and black socks) marching unchallenged beneath the Arc duh Triumph in gay Parie

Never say never. In the last US election liberals shot at several Republican campaign offices, slashed tires on buses meant to drive Rep voters to the polls, they stormed a couple of campaign headquarters and destroyed property. Liberals kill loggers in the Pacific Northwest by driving metal stakes into trees so chainsaws explode.
Each political side has its share of nutcases. Never is almost never a true statement.

Are liberals the ones who shoot ob/gyns at abortion clinics too? or am I mixed up?

Never say never. In the last US election liberals shot at several Republican campaign offices, slashed tires on buses meant to drive Rep voters to the polls, they stormed a couple of campaign headquarters and destroyed property. Liberals kill loggers in the Pacific Northwest by driving metal stakes into trees so chainsaws explode.
Each political side has its share of nutcases. Never is almost never a true statement.


Very true.

One kid in my school was stabbed when he wore a Bush/Cheney shirt in late october.

The right isn't at all innocent. Liberals never practice violence on Conservatives. When was the last time you can remember a liberal murdering a group of conservatives? Never. Not even in the news. But you guys sure are good at bombing abortion clinics and federal buildings eh? Why is it that you will practice violence and your intellectual leaders will condone it (Ann Coulter, to name one)?

Hypocrites to criticize us leftists. At least we only want to harm the elite, not our fellow masses.


I dont bomb abortion clinics or murder anyone for what I believe. I just vote and argue with emotional jack-offs in here.

Very true.

One kid in my school was stabbed when he wore a Bush/Cheney shirt in late october.

And there were likely no reprecussions against the stabber because this kid probably was in trouble with the liberal school administrators for wearing the shirt.
My brother worked for a large trading co in the northeast. He had an American flag at his desk. A co worker of middle easter decent complained about it one day for whatever reason. A week later it was missing. My brother reported the theft and was told that he shouldnt have had the flag at work anyway. Perfectly normal, huh?

Are liberals the ones who shoot ob/gyns at abortion clinics too? or am I mixed up?

What is your point? Because a few righties shoot at clinics no one on the left is violent? Umm, one is not related to the other.

Unfortunately, I have not found any one modern government that I like or would wish to move to. And the same goes for the countries as well, except for China and Japan. Though, that is only for their beautiful and exotic women. *drools* Umm... Back to my point... :D

No matter where you go, Government sucks. As do the countries in which they govern. British people swear and are too violent. Canadians need to have a better education system that teaches actual English and not the pig-latin that they speak. Germany needs to have a better system of standards and grading put into place. Australia is home of Foster's beer and was home to an old high school friend of mine. America( where I live) is led by a very human war-mongre that has the intelligence of a toddler. :headbang:

The style of government that I prefer is a more traditional and logical state. The entire world needs to let go of their emotional and competitive personalities( as I have) and to replace those with the more logical, peaceful, and scientific mindset. This is the only way that the world can become balanced as it was before mankind had appeared on this planet.

I am not for/against any one belief system. Just as long as I am able to believe my own way. This is, also, true for my religious preferences.

Ok, I am done ranting for now. Just thought that if Plutophobia could do it; I could too! lol :fluffle:

[QUOTE=Drakonic Symbiosis]Unfortunately, I have not found any one modern government that I like or would wish to move to. And the same goes for the countries as well, except for China and Japan. Though, that is only for their beautiful and exotic women. *drools* Umm... Back to my point... :D

I hate to rain on your parade but Japanese women aren't that exotic. I am married to one and I love here to death but. . .exotic she ain't and never will be. I have yet to meet or speak with a Japanese woman who I would term exotic and haven't had any gaijin friends who have had an exotic girlfriend.
Most are a bit sexually awkward (spl?). A very few are not.
Now China, I have not a clue.

Bush blows ass.

What? What is this? I haven't been arrested? I haven't been tortured?

Nope, the US isn't quite a police state. It's funny that the people that buy into uberleftist propaganda such as that are the same people complaining about right-wing propaganda.

You can leave, but I think you'll find the rest of the world has its fair share of problems, too.

A little aside to those of you who are revolutionary Marxists: we all know how that turns out in practice. Why even bother?

A little aside to those of you who are revolutionary Marxists: we all know how that turns out in practice. Why even bother?
Actually, we don't. Marx never intended communism for poor and backward countries such as Russia or China that lacked development. Now the Kibbutzim in Isreal, those work, and they are based on marxist ideals.

Actually, I think you will find that Canadians are taught and speak "English" and not "American". Perhaps that is what is confusing to you. Or perhaps you are hearing French and confusing it with "pig latin". Either way, Canada's educational system is miles ahead of America's.

And there were likely no reprecussions against the stabber because this kid probably was in trouble with the liberal school administrators for wearing the shirt.
IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU, THAT MAKE ME WANT TO LEAVE.

"BUSH GOT A MANDATE! BUSH GOT A MANDATE!"

"Yeah, some guy got stabbed just for wearing a Bush\Cheney t-shirt."

"Christianity is the largest religion in America."

"Christians are being persecuted!!"

You imbeciles contradict yourself. And then you have the audacity to say that a school would allow a stabbing to occur, because the guy was wearing a Bush\Cheney shirt?

Really. I'm starting to question whether Bush has secretly formed Orwellian "re-education" centers, when I hear ridiculous nonsense like that. If a person is stabbed, they're taken the hospital. From there, the person tells the police. And the police get involved. It has nothing to do with the school. Liberals tend to be involved in the humanities and social sciences. (You'll find very few 'Conservative' psychologists or English majors, other than perhaps journalists.)

My brother worked for a large trading co in the northeast. He had an American flag at his desk. A co worker of middle easter decent complained about it one day for whatever reason. A week later it was missing. My brother reported the theft and was told that he shouldnt have had the flag at work anyway. Perfectly normal, huh?
Therefore, let me use this one subjective experience to make a blanket statement about all liberals and middle-easterners.

Let me show you a comic I made. Just for you.

http://fapfap.org/concenstupid.gif
http://fapfap.org/concenstupid.gif

Actually, I think you will find that Canadians are taught and speak "English" and not "American". Perhaps that is what is confusing to you. Or perhaps you are hearing French and confusing it with "pig latin". Either way, Canada's educational system is miles ahead of America's.
Despite America's stupidity, I think they're intelligent enough to know the difference between a pig and a frog.

Well.. Cartoon. Whatever.

IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU, THAT MAKE ME WANT TO LEAVE.

"BUSH GOT A MANDATE! BUSH GOT A MANDATE!"

"Yeah, some guy got stabbed just for wearing a Bush\Cheney t-shirt."

"Christianity is the largest religion in America."

"Christians are being persecuted!!"

You imbeciles contradict yourself. And then you have the audacity to say that a school would allow a stabbing to occur, because the guy was wearing a Bush\Cheney shirt?

Really. I'm starting to question whether Bush has secretly formed Orwellian "re-education" centers, when I hear ridiculous nonsense like that. If a person is stabbed, they're taken the hospital. From there, the person tells the police. And the police get involved. It has nothing to do with the school. Liberals tend to be involved in the humanities and social sciences. (You'll find very few 'Conservative' psychologists or English majors, other than perhaps journalists.)


Therefore, let me use this one subjective experience to make a blanket statement about all liberals and middle-easterners.

Let me show you a comic I made. Just for you.

http://fapfap.org/concenstupid.gif
http://fapfap.org/concenstupid.gif


Despite America's stupidity, I think they're intelligent enough to know the difference between a pig and a frog.

heh heh ehe heh, aaaaaa, mmm. . .

You won't enjoy being in the Royal Navy very much you know.

They will literally kick the shit out you.

England is so messed up IMO. I'm sorry, but I totally hate Tony Blair. And I have the misfortune of living in it. But then again, I wouldn't like to live in America under Bush either. No. When, or if, I get to move out, it's Japan for me.
Mmm...Japanese schoolgirls...

Fundies keep telling us, "Go to Canada! Go to Canada!"

Well, I'm not a Canadian citizen and personally, I don't find bearded cavewomen attractive, nor do I like hockey, the French, igloos, yaks, or for my testacles to shrink to the size of raisins. However, for a while now, I've had a desperate need to escape this place. You people are insane and it's really no surprise that most of the world (sans those countries who desperately rely on your foreign aid) absolutely hate you. Even with the Iraqi war, Blair lost immense popularity and credibility with the people. Throughout the world, both Europe, Canada, and Australia, showed strong opposition to Bush as well as the war. In Australia, there were even several thousand people who got naked, joined hands, and spelled out the peace symbol.

If thousands of people are going to get naked and spell ANY symbol in opposition to what you're doing, I really believe you should rethink what you're doing. The Bush administration has paid journalists to put forth propaganda, locked up and tortured innocent people, and pretty much turned America into a police-state, with the Patriot Act. Now, many Conservatives say, "...BUT IT ISN'T ALL BUSH'S FAULT!" And you're quite right. It isn't. For this reason, you could say that, no, it isn't just Bush that is corrupt, but a majority of the government.

I'd signed a contract to join the Navy, but I morally object to paying taxes or serving the government in any way. I called the Center on Conscience and War (http://www.nisbco.org/) and I am not legally responsible until I am "officially" sworn in, at bootcamp. Since I'm both a British and an American citizen (dual-citizenship), tomorrow, I am applying for a passport and getting the hell out of this god-forsaken country.

God have mercy on you all. When your corrupt regime collapses and you are run by Microsoft and Wal-Mart, don't come crying to anyone for foreign aid. Because you are the absolute epitome of hypocrasy, selfishness, and ignorance. For those who have seen the movie, Office Space, America is the "Bill Lumbergh" of the world. Like the main character, I am sick of working under him, a slave under his corrupt, cold, "free market" ways. And so, I start a new life, a better life... in Britain. And while there's corruption there too, I'm sure, at least there's some spark of hope. But as for America, after discovering Bush was paying for propaganda and no one has immediately been prosecuted, I've totally lost what little faith I had in America.

Cry me a fuckin river :)
(plays violin in background)

Thanks for making it easier for us conservatives to win :D

Plutophobia, you can't just give up like that!
I lived in Germany last year, and had the opportunity to have a personal exodus from this god-forsaken country. But I didn't. I moved back because America is still going to suck if we leave. I have a commitment to all my fellow liberals to help instill revolutionary ideas, buy guns and help to fund some freedom fighters. It is no good to leave when all we have to do to make this country a better place is to :sniper: some people, mostly certain corporate business owners, but some politicians as well.

woah. so you protest all that shit about american soldiers dying...so to make the situation better you...fund terrorists? and you protest the declining economy, inflation, and rising unemployment and yet you want to...snipe down some corporate buisness CEOs? maybee kill a few million jobs and throw the enconomy into turmoil? and somehow that will make the economy better? and because you hate both Germany and the United States, you're going to try to scew the states up more??? can you at least screw up Germany so the Euro is not worth more than the Dollar anymore?

Well.. Cartoon. Whatever.


shouldnt you be leaving for canada or britain or wherever you're going to move now?

shouldnt you be leaving for canada or britain or wherever you're going to move now?

I can drive him to the airport. Here, let me go to Travelocity and set up his flight.

ONE LAST THING: how many of you liberals actually think that 9/11 was a governement conspiracy made by George Bush as an excuse to invade mid eastern countries and take their oil? Also even more rediculous how many of you dumbasses i mean liberals think that the tsunamis that ravaged se asia was a freakin US secret weapon? if plutophobia if you want to leave because america is stupid then this is a great reason to want to leave, but this is far left liberal hippy fucks that think everything is the US's fault. (Ps i have no problem with moderate lefts just idiotic far lefts)

Fundies keep telling us, "Go to Canada! Go to Canada!"



Snipped to save bandwidth ^^

Anyways, I hear you man. I've thought about becoming a Canadian citizen for a while now, and in a few years I think I'll sell my house, make a tidy little profit, take that money out of the American economy, and haul it up to Canada where I'll have almost twice the amount.

Seriously, I'm not a liberal, I consider myself a left libertarian, but the authoritarian rightwing/religious fundamentalist spirit of this country really has gotten me down. It's one thing when your government is corrupt, this is no surprise seeing as power is always corrupt to some degree, but when the general populace bend over backwards to defend corrupt government.......well then thats just my cue to leave.

It's a real shame too, I really did like certain aspects of American life, and Canadian government run liquor stores really suck ass, but I'll adjust. I'd rather live in a place where people with different opinions are tolerated, not yelled at and basically run out of town by the rightwing goose-stepping thug squad. I'd rather live in a country where political discourse is still civil for the most part, and at the end of the day, we're all still citizens no matter what we believe, not traitors because we refuse to tow the party line.

I find the modern Republican sentiment to be one of exclusion, not inclusion; if we're not with you, we're against you.......how about, no, we don't agree with you, but we're still your countrymen, and if it came down to it, we'd be standing right there next to you defending this country from foreign invaders. But thats just not good enough for today's Republicans, you either give over your life to Lord Bush, or you're a traitor. I can't get with bullshit like that.

And this whole religious movement of regression, just dying to put their knuckles back on the ground and drag the rest of us back through de-evolution into the pondscum from whence we came.....sorry guys, but I choose to move forward. I choose to accept evolution and the world being round as facts...so I know that I must burn in your hell for that if I remain in this country. No matter what extreme tactics you fundies use, you'll never have me on my knees praying, I'd rather die.

So yeah, for these and many other reasons, I hear what you're saying about not necessarily wanting to leave, but realizing that it's time to go, and that it has been time for quite a while now. I just wonder how long it will take for the far right to turn on the moderates when all of the leftists are gone...

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Ditto.

Fundies keep telling us, "Go to Canada! Go to Canada!"

Well, I'm not a Canadian citizen and personally, I don't find bearded cavewomen attractive, nor do I like hockey, the French, igloos, yaks, or for my testacles to shrink to the size of raisins.

Why do people think we are some frozen wasteland? Toronto (Our biggest city) is mere kilometers north of the border, and is just as warm and smoggy as many U.S. cities! Bearded Cavewomen? Well, unless you have 'em down there, I don't think you'd notice a diference. I don't like hocky either (although most Canadians do), The frech are only in Quebec, and I'm guessing you ment musk ox, not yak, not very many poeple live that far north, a tiny fraction of our population.

Fundies keep telling us, "Go to Canada! Go to Canada!"

Well, I'm not a Canadian citizen and personally, I don't find bearded cavewomen attractive, nor do I like hockey, the French, igloos, yaks, or for my testacles to shrink to the size of raisins. However, for a while now, I've had a desperate need to escape this place. You people are insane and it's really no surprise that most of the world (sans those countries who desperately rely on your foreign aid) absolutely hate you. Even with the Iraqi war, Blair lost immense popularity and credibility with the people. Throughout the world, both Europe, Canada, and Australia, showed strong opposition to Bush as well as the war. In Australia, there were even several thousand people who got naked, joined hands, and spelled out the peace symbol.

If thousands of people are going to get naked and spell ANY symbol in opposition to what you're doing, I really believe you should rethink what you're doing. The Bush administration has paid journalists to put forth propaganda, locked up and tortured innocent people, and pretty much turned America into a police-state, with the Patriot Act. Now, many Conservatives say, "...BUT IT ISN'T ALL BUSH'S FAULT!" And you're quite right. It isn't. For this reason, you could say that, no, it isn't just Bush that is corrupt, but a majority of the government.

I'd signed a contract to join the Navy, but I morally object to paying taxes or serving the government in any way. I called the Center on Conscience and War (http://www.nisbco.org/) and I am not legally responsible until I am "officially" sworn in, at bootcamp. Since I'm both a British and an American citizen (dual-citizenship), tomorrow, I am applying for a passport and getting the hell out of this god-forsaken country.

God have mercy on you all. When your corrupt regime collapses and you are run by Microsoft and Wal-Mart, don't come crying to anyone for foreign aid. Because you are the absolute epitome of hypocrasy, selfishness, and ignorance. For those who have seen the movie, Office Space, America is the "Bill Lumbergh" of the world. Like the main character, I am sick of working under him, a slave under his corrupt, cold, "free market" ways. And so, I start a new life, a better life... in Britain. And while there's corruption there too, I'm sure, at least there's some spark of hope. But as for America, after discovering Bush was paying for propaganda and no one has immediately been prosecuted, I've totally lost what little faith I had in America.

Look, Up until you're sworn in at boot-camp, you can bail on an enlistment contract if that is what your conscience tells you to do. That's one of the main reasons there is almost always a delay between the time you spend with the Recruiter, and your in-processing, the Military doesn't want people who aren't 100% sure, it's not worth the problems (See:all them Deserters since the wars started up again.)

If you really feel you must leave, go. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I wish more people who feel the way you do would act on it and leave, as a matter of fact. If you don't have the stones to stick it out and stand up for your beliefs here at home, fine, we don't need you, you're not contributing to the marketplace of ideas, so you should get the hell away and leave space for someone who WILL.

I'm sure you will find that a lot of people will be quite happy to help you pack, drive you to the airport, and go the hell away, never to return.

The difference between a Liberal American and a Lefty Loser, is that the Liberal American stands as a member of the Loyal Opposition. Lefty Losers scream "I don't like things and I'm going to go away and sulk because My side isn't winning!!!" So go. If you haven't finalized your travel plans, try
www.cheaptickets.com or www.priceline.com, so that you can get out with enough money that you won't be cluttering the British Welfare system when you get there.

Good luck, maybe while there, you will love it so much that you will be able to find something to stand-up for, and motivation to be loyal to your new country where you could not be loyal to this one. Finally, may you find your new home a more welcome and desirable place than this one.

Please, make a strong effort to succeed in your new homeland, so that you don't end up coming back here, where you really don't belong.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Buuuuuu Byyeeee!

"When your corrupt regime collapses and you are run by Microsoft and Wal-Mart, don't come crying to anyone for foreign aid. Because you are the absolute epitome of hypocrasy, selfishness, and ignorance. For those who have seen the movie, Office Space, America is the "Bill Lumbergh" of the world. Like the main character, I am sick of working under him, a slave under his corrupt, cold, "free market" ways. And so, I start a new life, a better life... in Britain."

First of all:
Hey! what's wrong with walmart?

Second:
Go ahead and move. Nobody is saying you have to stay here. Why do you feel the need to tell us all about it?

Third:
OK, you've fired your "parting shot" now get your butt movin'

Fourth:
Britain? did you pick that randomly?

Fifth:
I have no idea why I'm numbering everything so please don't ask.

The difference between a Liberal American and a Lefty Loser, is that the Liberal American stands as a member of the Loyal Opposition. Lefty Losers scream "I don't like things and I'm going to go away and sulk because My side isn't winning!!!" So go.

You know, if you don't mind having the proverbial shit kicked out of you and the wind firmly blown out of your sails on a daily basis for the rest of your life, then thats cool with me, but don't get mad at people who have taken all the shit they can take, and can't take no more.

I see America moving steadily to the right, and you with all your big talk sure as hell aren't stopping it. If America wants to move to the right, thats all good with me, I'll just move. At a certain point, one must acknowledge the futility of fighting over sand dunes. This is not about the government, its about the people, and whether we on the left like it or not, on Nov. 2nd 2004, the people spoke, loud and clear. This is what they want. It's not what I want. And I'm not prepared to throw good effort after bad down a bottomless pit of futility.

If you liberals want to actually make some sort of difference in this country, you can start by pursuading your own Democratic base to actually listen to you instead of floating slowly over to the right. But until your causes are taken seriously enough for the federal government to intervene on your behalf, as we've just seen in the high profile recent case of Shiavo and the way the government of this country bent over backwards to accomodate the far right fundamentalists, you're nothing but another angry blowhard, and I'm sick of you guys too.

i hold "liberal" views on a number of subjects, and the climate in America is making me feel increasingly uncomfortable. i love America, and i am very proud of the ideals this country was founded upon, but i see those ideals being degraded and discarded by people and politicians who feel their personal opinions and agendas are more important than justice and liberty. i feel that true equality is being undermined at every turn. i feel that our most precious freedoms are being gradually eroded. it's sad, and a little scary, and it makes me angry because i see the things i love best about America being spit upon on a daily basis.

i'm not prepared to cut and run, yet, and i certainly won't give up my efforts to try to help fix the problems i see. however, i also draw a line of how much i am willing to take, and if that line is crossed i too will leave America. though the thread founder has clearly drawn the line sooner than i would have done, i have to admit that i can understand and respect that choice to a certain degree. if you feel this country is unworthy of your tax dollars, your civic efforts, and your patriotism, then you most certainly should leave and go to a country where you can feel happy and proud. all i ask is that you not insult or demeen those who stay behind, particularly those who are still trying to re-balance and revive the American spirit.

You know, if you don't mind having the proverbial shit kicked out of you and the wind firmly blown out of your sails on a daily basis for the rest of your life, then thats cool with me, but don't get mad at people who have taken all the shit they can take, and can't take no more.

I see America moving steadily to the right, and you with all your big talk sure as hell aren't stopping it. If America wants to move to the right, thats all good with me, I'll just move. At a certain point, one must acknowledge the futility of fighting over sand dunes. This is not about the government, its about the people, and whether we on the left like it or not, on Nov. 2nd 2004, the people spoke, loud and clear. This is what they want. It's not what I want. And I'm not prepared to throw good effort after bad down a bottomless pit of futility.

If you liberals want to actually make some sort of difference in this country, you can start by pursuading your own Democratic base to actually listen to you instead of floating slowly over to the right. But until your causes are taken seriously enough for the federal government to intervene on your behalf, as we've just seen in the high profile recent case of Shiavo and the way the government of this country bent over backwards to accomodate the far right fundamentalists, you're nothing but another angry blowhard, and I'm sick of you guys too.



Political Compass on me: Right-Wing Libertarian. I just have enough suspicion of any single movement to desire a more or less vocal and solid opposition to keep the elected pukes under control. I don't have a problem with the direction America is going, but I also don't respect people who won't stand up for their beliefs, choosing to run off and be whiny (censored) rather than doing the work. For Fifty years, the U.S. was steadily moving to the left-how many Conservatives fled over that time? Yah, what I thought.
I have no respect for people who cut and run when it gets tough-see, those people you can't count on as People, it's better to be rid of 'em. I know a fairly sincere Marxist (Whom I worked with for several years, as a matter of fact), and he was worthy of respect-because he didn't run out when things got tough, he wouldn't run out when things got tough, That makes him worthy of respect, even though his philosophy is repellent in the extreme to me.

Those who run when things get a little uncomfortable, are going to be absolutely worthless if things ever get Genuinely bad..

I want you to leave. It'll be one less person who will vote for the Democrats.

Let me get this straight: unless I am mistaken, America was founded by a lot of European colonists who found they did not care for the direction their homelands were headed in, and decided to pack up their families and move to a new land where they could try to create something better.

How is it that this very behaviour, which is the core and root of America itself, is grounds for so-called patriots to attack and insult the choice of the thread's author to do exactly that? It seems to me to be the most American thing he could do, whether or not he sees it as such.

England is so messed up IMO. I'm sorry, but I totally hate Tony Blair. And I have the misfortune of living in it. But then again, I wouldn't like to live in America under Bush either. No. When, or if, I get to move out, it's Japan for me.

Japan? It's a totalitarian capitalist technocracy plagued by racism, sexism, and even pædophilia. The age of consent there is 12!

Japan? It's a totalitarian capitalist technocracy plagued by racism, sexism, and even pædophilia. The age of consent there is 12!

The age of consent in Japan is 16. Yes, they do like paedophillia i nlarge numbers. Japanese men who like it are called Lolikons. It is surprisingly tolarated. If a man is into that he is generally laughed at but not much else.

The age of consent in Utah is 14. In fact, in most places on Earth there is an understanding that physical sexual maturity indicates that one is "of age". The infantilization of society is a particularly Western idea. Our culture is founded upon capitalist ideas that say that we should not reproduce until we are graduated from highschool and able to support ourselves, but biologically this idea is not supported. It is simply "more convenient" that we do not reproduce until we are over 18, but to suggest that it is somehow immoral to have a lower age of consent is silly.

The age of consent in Utah is 14. In fact, in most places on Earth there is an understanding that physical sexual maturity indicates that one is "of age". The infantilization of society is a particularly Western idea. Our culture is founded upon capitalist ideas that say that we should not reproduce until we are graduated from highschool and able to support ourselves, but biologically this idea is not supported. It is simply "more convenient" that we do not reproduce until we are over 18, but to suggest that it is somehow immoral to have a lower age of consent is silly.

Convenience? Hardly. It's about preventing rape of innocent children.

The age of consent in Japan is 16. Yes, they do like paedophillia i nlarge numbers. Japanese men who like it are called Lolikons. It is surprisingly tolarated. If a man is into that he is generally laughed at but not much else.

My mistake. Still, that doesn't speak too well of Japan.

NO!!! Nobody should leave!!!

Stay here and fight for your country!!!

If you don't, then the bad guys will have taken over!

:mp5:

[/un-plutonian streak of american patriotism]

Are you sure? Have you ever travelled outside of the USA? Most yanks I've seen seem pretty helpless and alienated in foreign cultures and seem to have a hard time adjusting.

Convenience? Hardly. It's about preventing rape of innocent children.

We are discussing age of consent, not rape of innocents. Innocents do not consent. While you may like to think that a sixteen year old boy is "innocent" even though he happily consents to sex with a nineteen year old woman, I would suggest that he probably isn't. I didn't know many teenagers who were "innocent" when it came to sexual activity. You can try to fight biology and nature all you want, though.

We are discussing age of consent, not rape of innocents. Innocents do not consent. While you may like to think that a sixteen year old boy is "innocent" even though he happily consents to sex with a nineteen year old woman, I would suggest that he probably isn't. I didn't know many teenagers who were "innocent" when it came to sexual activity. You can try to fight biology and nature all you want, though.

Yes, I'm sure 12 year old girls all want to have sex with would-be H^2s. :rolleyes:

Yes, I'm sure 12 year old girls all want to have sex with would-be H^2s. :rolleyes:

Who or what is H^2s?

If it's a boy-band, then probably yes.

Yes, I'm sure 12 year old girls all want to have sex with would-be H^2s. :rolleyes:

I have no idea what an H^2 is, but if the 12 year old consented and is physically sexually mature, then it's her decision, not mine or yours. Whether her parents should have a say in the matter is entirely their own problem. Some mothers would keep their children locked up until age thirty. Where do you draw the line? Anything other than biological maturity is just arbitrary and unhelpful, in my opinion.

I have no idea what an H^2 is, but if the 12 year old consented and is physically sexually mature, then it's her decision, not mine or yours. Whether her parents should have a say in the matter is entirely their own problem. Some mothers would keep their children locked up until age thirty. Where do you draw the line? Anything other than biological maturity is just arbitrary and unhelpful, in my opinion.

Well, you probably know that the line is usually drawn at the age of consent (where I live it's 14 years).
Just because you have a mouth when you are born it doesn't mean that you are ready to drink alcohol. Alot of kids learn how to drive from their nintendo, but I wouldn't trust them on the road.

There are three types of Americans. The first two contribute to the massive hellhole it is, the third one actually helps out.

1. The idiots.
2. The people who run away from the idiots.
3. The people that stay and contribute their superior knowledge to society to make it a better place.



Run like hell, run as fast as you can. Because, ya know, I really don't care. But that's beside the point. The point is, it's going to bite you back in the ass one day. And your children or your grandchildren will one day go "Why didn't that *BLEEP*-ing ancestor of mine stay in America and at least TRY to make it a better place?"

But I'm just killing time and waiting for my swimming stuff to finish drying so I can get to sleep.

There are three types of Americans. The first two contribute to the massive hellhole it is, the third one actually helps out.

1. The idiots.
2. The people who run away from the idiots.
3. The people that stay and contribute their superior knowledge to society to make it a better place.



Run like hell, run as fast as you can. Because, ya know, I really don't care. But that's beside the point. The point is, it's going to bite you back in the ass one day. And your children or your grandchildren will one day go "Why didn't that *BLEEP*-ing ancestor of mine stay in America and at least TRY to make it a better place?"

But I'm just killing time and waiting for my swimming stuff to finish drying so I can get to sleep.


Isn't it called "intellectual-drain"? When all the smart people start to run like hell. It happened in nazi germany before the war.

Isn't it called "intellectual-drain"? When all the smart people start to run like hell. It happened in nazi germany before the war.
Who says they were smart in the first place?

Just because they're aware doesn't mean they're smart.

Actually, we don't. Marx never intended communism for poor and backward countries such as Russia or China that lacked development. Now the Kibbutzim in Isreal, those work, and they are based on marxist ideals.
Never mind the fact that in most developed nations, the "proletariat" class Marx identified has almost completely vanished. The only place it exists now are in the poor, developing nations.

Who says they were smart in the first place?

Just because they're aware doesn't mean they're smart.

Well...America and England gained quite a few jewish scientists, entertainers...etc I think we can agree that many of them were quite smart, or at least talented in their field. Of course...some had bad luck and ran to countries that were later occupied.

Wasn't America based on some ideals like that? Land of opportunity where everyone is emigrate to...to "run" from someplace worse?

Fundies keep telling us, "Go to Canada! Go to Canada!"

Well, I'm not a Canadian citizen and personally, I don't find bearded cavewomen attractive, nor do I like hockey, the French, igloos, yaks, or for my testacles to shrink to the size of raisins. However, for a while now, I've had a desperate need to escape this place. You people are insane and it's really no surprise that most of the world (sans those countries who desperately rely on your foreign aid) absolutely hate you. Even with the Iraqi war, Blair lost immense popularity and credibility with the people. Throughout the world, both Europe, Canada, and Australia, showed strong opposition to Bush as well as the war. In Australia, there were even several thousand people who got naked, joined hands, and spelled out the peace symbol.

If thousands of people are going to get naked and spell ANY symbol in opposition to what you're doing, I really believe you should rethink what you're doing. The Bush administration has paid journalists to put forth propaganda, locked up and tortured innocent people, and pretty much turned America into a police-state, with the Patriot Act. Now, many Conservatives say, "...BUT IT ISN'T ALL BUSH'S FAULT!" And you're quite right. It isn't. For this reason, you could say that, no, it isn't just Bush that is corrupt, but a majority of the government.

I'd signed a contract to join the Navy, but I morally object to paying taxes or serving the government in any way. I called the Center on Conscience and War (http://www.nisbco.org/) and I am not legally responsible until I am "officially" sworn in, at bootcamp. Since I'm both a British and an American citizen (dual-citizenship), tomorrow, I am applying for a passport and getting the hell out of this god-forsaken country.

God have mercy on you all. When your corrupt regime collapses and you are run by Microsoft and Wal-Mart, don't come crying to anyone for foreign aid. Because you are the absolute epitome of hypocrasy, selfishness, and ignorance. For those who have seen the movie, Office Space, America is the "Bill Lumbergh" of the world. Like the main character, I am sick of working under him, a slave under his corrupt, cold, "free market" ways. And so, I start a new life, a better life... in Britain. And while there's corruption there too, I'm sure, at least there's some spark of hope. But as for America, after discovering Bush was paying for propaganda and no one has immediately been prosecuted, I've totally lost what little faith I had in America.

well thank god for your exit.. dont let the door slam on your way out. Its people like you killing your party anyway.. If you wont even fight for your ideals why should you be in power :mad:

Japan? It's a totalitarian capitalist technocracy plagued by racism, sexism, and even pædophilia. The age of consent there is 12!


I see that someone has already pointed out that the age of consent in Japan in not 12. In fact, you are both right: the national age-of-consent law for Japan is 12 years old, but each prefecture is allowed to set it's own age-of-consent, and no prefecture has it set lower than 16 years old. Many prefectures set the age of consent higher, such as 18 years old. In Japan, you are not an "adult" (in the sense of voting rights, etc.) until age 20.

While "rorikon" (lolita complex) manga featuring underage girls in sexual situations are common in Japan, it is important to remember that these are hand-drawn. Actual child pornography is not legal is Japan, and children may not be used to create rorikon manga. I personally am disgusted by rorikon, but it is interesting to note that the actual incendence of sex crimes in Japan is lower than in the US or Europe. Also, as Japan relaxed it's cenorship laws regarding the sex industry (most of which were created during the US Occupation of Japan) from 1975-1995 and rorikon-type manga became much more common, the rate of sex crimes decreased, and the percentage of rapes that were committed against minors decreased.

http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html

hhmmm. going to england, i see. have fun. bring a dentist.

Are you sure? Have you ever travelled outside of the USA? Most yanks I've seen seem pretty helpless and alienated in foreign cultures and seem to have a hard time adjusting.
that is so true. i did NOT do well in Norway.

Well, you probably know that the line is usually drawn at the age of consent (where I live it's 14 years).

The question being raised is where to set the age of consent. I say it should be at physical sexual maturity. You seem to be arguing that the age of consent should be set at the age of consent. Am I misreading that?

Are you sure? Have you ever travelled outside of the USA? Most yanks I've seen seem pretty helpless and alienated in foreign cultures and seem to have a hard time adjusting.

That is nothing peculiar to the Americans. Move to a different culture and anyone is going to feel helpless and alienated for a while. (One country to another in Europe is not always a culture change, but try going from Denmark to Greece.)

The question being raised is where to set the age of consent. I say it should be at physical sexual maturity. You seem to be arguing that the age of consent should be set at the age of consent. Am I misreading that?
everyone matures at a different rate. how could you possibly use an across the board age with that criteria?

everyone matures at a different rate. how could you possibly use an across the board age with that criteria?
some people are ready at 12, some at 17, some never. i lost my virginity in the womb.

That is nothing peculiar to the Americans. Move to a different culture and anyone is going to feel helpless and alienated for a while. (One country to another in Europe is not always a culture change, but try going from Denmark to Greece.)

I went from Iceland to Belgium. Brussels has alot of people from other countries because of the EU and NATO.
The ones I remember having much more trouble than others adapting were Americans. Even Americans that had been there longer than me didn't seem to accept the fact that things were different than at home.
Of course I realize there must be reasons why the Americans didn't adapt, I don't know what they are. Perhaps it's a cultural thing.

I got quite a bit of culture shock myself, moving to a city with a larger population than my entire native country and getting used to things that were alien to me, such as traffic jams, the subway and the possibility of streetcrime. The size and strangeness of it all was overwhelming. But I got used to it pretty fast.

The question being raised is where to set the age of consent. I say it should be at physical sexual maturity. You seem to be arguing that the age of consent should be set at the age of consent. Am I misreading that?

You can't make a new law for every single person.
I think it is very hard to make a scale that measures "maturity". Besides, I'm not sure I'd want to see my government developing a "sexual maturity scale".

I went from Iceland to Belgium. Brussels has alot of people from other countries because of the EU and NATO.
The ones I remember having much more trouble than others adapting were Americans. Even Americans that had been there longer than me didn't seem to accept the fact that things were different than at home.
Of course I realize there must be reasons why the Americans didn't adapt, I don't know what they are. Perhaps it's a cultural thing.

I got quite a bit of culture shock myself, moving to a city with a larger population than my entire native country and getting used to things that were alien to me, such as traffic jams, the subway and the possibility of streetcrime. The size and strangeness of it all was overwhelming. But I got used to it pretty fast.

I would suggest that it was due to the change being much greater to start with. Europeans arriving in the USA have a hard time of it. The way things are done just does not make sense at all. Iceland to Belgium is not a big change. Language will have been the biggest problem, but English should get you by until you learn the lingo.

The Americans (USA) may be less accepting that things can be done differently, or that the power relationships between groups and individuals are either less important or signalled differently. I don't know.

I was commenting on my experience of moving from the UK to Brazil. (Big culture shock there). I had the advantage of having a native companion with me, who speaks English, to help when I got confused, but it still took about three years to stop feeling completely helpless.

You can't make a new law for every single person.
I think it is very hard to make a scale that measures "maturity". Besides, I'm not sure I'd want to see my government developing a "sexual maturity scale".

You don't need to make an individual law for every person, you make one law that says "if the person consenting is physically sexually mature, then their consent stands". If someone wants to press charges claiming the consenting party is not old enough, it is easy enough for a doctor to make that determination.

You don't need to make an individual law for every person, you make one law that says "if the person consenting is physically sexually mature, then their consent stands". If someone wants to press charges claiming the consenting party is not old enough, it is easy enough for a doctor to make that determination.

That would mean that a fifteen year old lad, who has a consenting fourteen year old female partner has to be able to judge if she is physicaly mature, without having al that medical training, before doing anything.
Or are you proposing that all pre-pubescents are taught how to distinguish physical maturity in other people.

Or are you proposing that all pre-pubescents are taught how to distinguish physical maturity in other people.

In law they use the "reasonable man" yardstick in cases like this. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

In law they use the "reasonable man" yardstick in cases like this. It doesn't take a rocket scientist.

But it does take knowledge and experience that the average teenager does not have. The teenager is the antithesis of the "reasonable man" (or woman) in this case.

But it does take knowledge and experience that the average teenager does not have. The teenager is the antithesis of the "reasonable man" (or woman) in this case.

The average teenager has far better ability to spot sexual maturity than most other people, they are expressly wired to detect it, by millions of years of evolution.

We have shamelessly hijacked this thread, by the way, and I am now returning it to its owner. =)

I would suggest that it was due to the change being much greater to start with. Europeans arriving in the USA have a hard time of it. The way things are done just does not make sense at all. Iceland to Belgium is not a big change. Language will have been the biggest problem, but English should get you by until you learn the lingo.

The Americans (USA) may be less accepting that things can be done differently, or that the power relationships between groups and individuals are either less important or signalled differently. I don't know.

I was commenting on my experience of moving from the UK to Brazil. (Big culture shock there). I had the advantage of having a native companion with me, who speaks English, to help when I got confused, but it still took about three years to stop feeling completely helpless.

Uhm...You're wrong. Moving from Iceland to Belgium was a really big change. The culture, behavior and surroundings are all completely different from where I grew up (a tiny fishing village). And it was as you described...The way things are done in Brussels didn't seem to make any sense at all. And the Belgians (especially the french speakers) are not easy to get along with when you don't understand them. It took me about a year to get used to things. I was a bit younger so the language came to me fast.

I didn't make the comment earlier to make fun of anyone, it was an observation.
I suspect that the problem may be one of those things that goes into a circle. The Belgians seemed to dislike Americans and assume they were all ignorant and rude. That sort of thing doesn't encourage foreigners to mingle...so they don't...etc

Atleast move to Switzerland, probably the best of the European countries. They have virtually no crime rate. They have many freedoms the US does not even have. They are probably taxed out to hell like the rest of Europe but so what if you planning on moving anyway.

http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries.cfm

They are above the U.S. for economic freedom. In several cantons taxes may even be lower.

There some things you should know about Switzerland though. Are you willing to learn new languages?
I also hear you can get permits to live there, but only for 9 months a year. The immigration process takes like 9 years, and the citizens of the town you want to live in, vote by referendum whether they want you to stay or not.

Uhm...You're wrong. Moving from Iceland to Belgium was a really big change. The culture, behavior and surroundings are all completely different from where I grew up (a tiny fishing village). And it was as you described...The way things are done in Brussels didn't seem to make any sense at all. And the Belgians (especially the french speakers) are not easy to get along with when you don't understand them. It took me about a year to get used to things. I was a bit younger so the language came to me fast.
Ahh those silly Walloons (I'm Flemish and biased. Eat me. ;) ) Their schools suck, not to mention their language skills. Not that the Flemish can't be petit bourgeois

I didn't make the comment earlier to make fun of anyone, it was an observation.
I suspect that the problem may be one of those things that goes into a circle. The Belgians seemed to dislike Americans and assume they were all ignorant and rude. That sort of thing doesn't encourage foreigners to mingle...so they don't...etc
My fancy plastic electronic ID card says "Belgian" and it doesn't make me intolerant of foreigners.


The thing I can't stand, however, are those city youths, mostly of North-African or Arabic descent. Not because of what they are of course, but because of what they do. Annoy people, petty crime, disturbing our parties etc. They even have the guts to complain about police patrols in their neighbourhoods every 30 seconds. Serves them fucking right.

While "rorikon" (lolita complex) manga featuring underage girls in sexual situations are common in Japan, it is important to remember that these are hand-drawn. Actual child pornography is not legal is Japan, and children may not be used to create rorikon manga. I personally am disgusted by rorikon, but it is interesting to note that the actual incendence of sex crimes in Japan is lower than in the US or Europe. Also, as Japan relaxed it's cenorship laws regarding the sex industry (most of which were created during the US Occupation of Japan) from 1975-1995 and rorikon-type manga became much more common, the rate of sex crimes decreased, and the percentage of rapes that were committed against minors decreased.

Note that in Japan, you are expected to keep these things to yourself. Little girls probably didn't tell anyone they were raped. The fact that lolicon hentai exists in Japan at all speaks quite poorly of it.

I have no idea what an H^2 is, but if the 12 year old consented and is physically sexually mature, then it's her decision, not mine or yours. Whether her parents should have a say in the matter is entirely their own problem. Some mothers would keep their children locked up until age thirty. Where do you draw the line? Anything other than biological maturity is just arbitrary and unhelpful, in my opinion.

H^2 is short for Humbert Humbert. Do you want perverts like that to get their way? Biology does not determine morality. Little girls may have all the equipment they need to have sex, but that doesn't mean they want to or that they should be forced to.

[QUOTE=Letila]Note that in Japan, you are expected to keep these things to yourself. Little girls probably didn't tell anyone they were raped. The fact that lolicon hentai exists in Japan at all speaks quite poorly of it.


I agree that the existance of rorikon hentai speaks poorly for Japan. However, if you'd read the article, you would have seen that the likelyhood of any sex crime being reported went up over the period in which rorikon became more common, probably because it became more permissable to talk about sex in general. Regardless of the existance of rorikon, most people in Japan would never do anything as antisocial as rape or molesting a child. I think that's part of the reason why fanatsies about such things are so common. The fact remains that a Japanese little child stands a much better chance of making it to adulthood without being molested than does his/her counterpart in the US.

I hate to rain on your parade but Japanese women aren't that exotic. I am married to one and I love here to death but. . .exotic she ain't and never will be. I have yet to meet or speak with a Japanese woman who I would term exotic and haven't had any gaijin friends who have had an exotic girlfriend.
Most are a bit sexually awkward (spl?). A very few are not.
Now China, I have not a clue.


And that's probably how we have different ideas on women. Because I think that most American Women are stuck-up preppy a$$ byotches. And I have random views on women from other nations as well. ;)

IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU, THAT MAKE ME WANT TO LEAVE.

"BUSH GOT A MANDATE! BUSH GOT A MANDATE!"

"Yeah, some guy got stabbed just for wearing a Bush\Cheney t-shirt."

"Christianity is the largest religion in America."

"Christians are being persecuted!!"

You imbeciles contradict yourself. And then you have the audacity to say that a school would allow a stabbing to occur, because the guy was wearing a Bush\Cheney shirt?

Really. I'm starting to question whether Bush has secretly formed Orwellian "re-education" centers, when I hear ridiculous nonsense like that. If a person is stabbed, they're taken the hospital. From there, the person tells the police. And the police get involved. It has nothing to do with the school. Liberals tend to be involved in the humanities and social sciences. (You'll find very few 'Conservative' psychologists or English majors, other than perhaps journalists.)

Hey, you're singing to the choir now. And becoming rather irritated as it sounds that you are; doesn't help your point of view much, either. And besides, American schools lack in a lot. However, that is due to the people behind them. Which are just a bunch of fat and lazy bastards that see more of a point in watching athletic events from their couches than thinking. If we want the American Educational System to be much better, WE MUST BAN ALL SPORTS.

Actually, I think you will find that Canadians are taught and speak "English" and not "American". Perhaps that is what is confusing to you. Or perhaps you are hearing French and confusing it with "pig latin". Either way, Canada's educational system is miles ahead of America's.

Well, you should learn how to use English. And not use "Aye" and Hockey terms in all of your sentences. Oh and don't forget about mentioning deer and Canada, all the time either.

Cry me a fuckin river :)
(plays violin in background)

::CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!::

woah. so you protest all that shit about american soldiers dying...so to make the situation better you...fund terrorists?

I have to disagree. I am completely against this "War on Terrorism." And I am against our American Soldiers that have decided to use their freedom to become Military Personnel that die in this uncalled for war. I do not fund terrorism. The only reason that I do fund the American side of this war is, because I am forced to do so.

ONE LAST THING: how many of you liberals actually think that 9/11 was a governement conspiracy made by George Bush as an excuse to invade mid eastern countries and take their oil? Also even more rediculous how many of you dumbasses i mean liberals think that the tsunamis that ravaged se asia was a freakin US secret weapon? if plutophobia if you want to leave because america is stupid then this is a great reason to want to leave, but this is far left liberal hippy fucks that think everything is the US's fault. (Ps i have no problem with moderate lefts just idiotic far lefts)

I believe that it was a set-up that Bush could use to begin his acts of atrocities and destruction against America and Other Countries. Iraq had not done anything to us, before Bush Jr. came along. Only Osama Bin Laden had.

IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU, THAT MAKE ME WANT TO LEAVE.

"BUSH GOT A MANDATE! BUSH GOT A MANDATE!"

"Yeah, some guy got stabbed just for wearing a Bush\Cheney t-shirt."

"Christianity is the largest religion in America."

"Christians are being persecuted!!"

You imbeciles contradict yourself. And then you have the audacity to say that a school would allow a stabbing to occur, because the guy was wearing a Bush\Cheney shirt?

Really. I'm starting to question whether Bush has secretly formed Orwellian "re-education" centers, when I hear ridiculous nonsense like that. If a person is stabbed, they're taken the hospital. From there, the person tells the police. And the police get involved. It has nothing to do with the school. Liberals tend to be involved in the humanities and social sciences. (You'll find very few 'Conservative' psychologists or English majors, other than perhaps journalists.)


Therefore, let me use this one subjective experience to make a blanket statement about all liberals and middle-easterners.

Let me show you a comic I made. Just for you.

http://fapfap.org/concenstupid.gif
http://fapfap.org/concenstupid.gif

Despite America's stupidity, I think they're intelligent enough to know the difference between a pig and a frog.



Wow-you're still here?

There are three types of Americans. The first two contribute to the massive hellhole it is, the third one actually helps out.

1. The idiots.
2. The people who run away from the idiots.
3. The people that stay and contribute their superior knowledge to society to make it a better place.

I would be the third type.

Japan's age of consent is 12? Wow! Anybody wanna help me get a round-trip ticket and a passport?

konnichi-wow

Plutophobia

If you like warm weather, communist dictators and 1950s cars, try Cuba.

Of course you won't be able to start your own business, keep much of your own money or speak your mind without being killed, but if you're so hot for communism/socialism, this is your dream.

(i'd have proffered North Korea and Vietnam too but you'd starve to death in the former and have to drink the same water you piss in in the latter)

COMMUNISM ROCKS!

Plutophobia

If you like warm weather, communist dictators and 1950s cars, try Cuba.

Of course you won't be able to start your own business, keep much of your own money or speak your mind without being killed, but if you're so hot for communism/socialism, this is your dream.

(i'd have proffered North Korea and Vietnam too but you'd starve to death in the former and have to drink the same water you piss in in the latter)

COMMUNISM ROCKS!

He'll enjoy it in any of those three nations, cuz miserable lefty liberals thrive on the misery of the masses.

*shrugs*

It's a free country -- do as you will.

http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries.cfm

They are above the U.S. for economic freedom. In several cantons taxes may even be lower.

There some things you should know about Switzerland though. Are you willing to learn new languages?
I also hear you can get permits to live there, but only for 9 months a year. The immigration process takes like 9 years, and the citizens of the town you want to live in, vote by referendum whether they want you to stay or not.


Ahh those silly Walloons (I'm Flemish and biased. Eat me. ;) ) Their schools suck, not to mention their language skills. Not that the Flemish can't be petit bourgeois

My fancy plastic electronic ID card says "Belgian" and it doesn't make me intolerant of foreigners.


The thing I can't stand, however, are those city youths, mostly of North-African or Arabic descent. Not because of what they are of course, but because of what they do. Annoy people, petty crime, disturbing our parties etc. They even have the guts to complain about police patrols in their neighbourhoods every 30 seconds. Serves them fucking right.

I liked Brussels. Like any place, certain things there could be better.

And it kind of sounds like you are intolerant of foreigners.

I agree that the existance of rorikon hentai speaks poorly for Japan. However, if you'd read the article, you would have seen that the likelyhood of any sex crime being reported went up over the period in which rorikon became more common, probably because it became more permissable to talk about sex in general. Regardless of the existance of rorikon, most people in Japan would never do anything as antisocial as rape or molesting a child. I think that's part of the reason why fanatsies about such things are so common. The fact remains that a Japanese little child stands a much better chance of making it to adulthood without being molested than does his/her counterpart in the US.

I highly doubt that. The US is a nation where even admitting to be a pædophile can be fatal and where 90% of people would shoot a pædo without hessitation. I may disagree with the US's violence, but it does make pædophilia far risker than in a nation where kiddy porn is legal and pædophilia is only mildly stigmatized.

Japan's age of consent is 12? Wow! Anybody wanna help me get a round-trip ticket and a passport?

I suggest you either go to a psychologist and get treated for your perversion or buy a bulletproof vest and watch out for the likely hail of fire.

I highly doubt that. The US is a nation where even admitting to be a pædophile can be fatal and where 90% of people would shoot a pædo without hessitation... I suggest you either go to a psychologist and get treated for your perversion or buy a bulletproof vest and watch out for the likely hail of fire.


???
Um, what part of America are you talking about?

[QUOTE=Letila]I highly doubt that. The US is a nation where even admitting to be a pædophile can be fatal and where 90% of people would shoot a pædo without hessitation. I may disagree with the US's violence, but it does make pædophilia far risker than in a nation where kiddy porn is legal and pædophilia is only mildly stigmatized.

(NB: I am both Villainous Vikings and Maebashi. I didn't mean to post under my other nation, up until now I have only posted under Maebashi.)

As I have said already, I agree that it would be better if rorikon didn't exist. It is true that it is sold openly, and that people can buy/own rorikon without too many repercussions. However, I disagree that Japan is a place where pedophilia is only "midly stigmatized". I remember a case of a little girl getting molested in Osaka a few months ago that was on the Japanese news for months. All of the Japanese people I talked to expressed shock and disgust at the news, as well they should. But if Japan were a country where it was morally ok to molest children, why would they have made such a big deal out of it on news that was clearly intended for Japanese domestic consumption? I think part of the reason manga and anime that feature violence against schoolgirls are so popular is because Japanese people know it is something they could never do. It is a very sick fantasy, but it is still a fantasy. Statistics say that most crimes, including sex crimes against children, occur less frequently in Japan than in the US. Nothing I have seen in all my time in Japan has given me reason to doubt this.

True, but Japan's suicide rate is friggin scary.

True, but Japan's suicide rate is friggin scary.


That's certainly true. Suicide is a huge problem. Suicide IS morally ok in Japan, and far too many young people take their own lives each year. It's very tragic. :(

As I have said already, I agree that it would be better if rorikon didn't exist. It is true that it is sold openly, and that people can buy/own rorikon without too many repercussions. However, I disagree that Japan is a place where pedophilia is only "midly stigmatized". I remember a case of a little girl getting molested in Osaka a few months ago that was on the Japanese news for months. All of the Japanese people I talked to expressed shock and disgust at the news, as well they should. But if Japan were a country where it was morally ok to molest children, why would they have made such a big deal out of it on news that was clearly intended for Japanese domestic consumption? I think part of the reason manga and anime that feature violence against schoolgirls are so popular is because Japanese people know it is something they could never do. It is a very sick fantasy, but it is still a fantasy. Statistics say that most crimes, including sex crimes against children, occur less frequently in Japan than in the US. Nothing I have seen in all my time in Japan has given me reason to doubt this.

I could easily argue that the lower reports are due to being more closed. It is a well-known fact that Japanese culture encourages keeping things to yourself rather than blurting them out like in US culture.

There are plenty of more reasons to criticize Japan, anyway (xenophobia, classism, misogynism, cetophagy [eating of whale], etc.)

I could easily argue that the lower reports are due to being more closed. It is a well-known fact that Japanese culture encourages keeping things to yourself rather than blurting them out like in US culture.

There are plenty of more reasons to criticize Japan, anyway (xenophobia, classism, misogynism, cetophagy [eating of whale], etc.)


I'm not going to argue with you on xenophobia or any of the others. I'm not trying to hype up Japan. All I am saying is that I don't think Japan is accepting of child molesters. If you want to say that Japan is full of child molesters, but we don't see them in police statistics, fine. I obviously can't argue with that. I do think the media reaction I wrote about makes that unlikely. If there was a huge number of unreported molestations in Japan that society accepted, one more molestation wouldn't be newsworthy. If you want to hate Japan, go ahead. They certainly have their share of problems. But I have no reason to think that pedophilia is a bigger problem here than it is in the US, and some evidence that points to the opposite.

Fundies keep telling us, "Go to Canada! Go to Canada!"

Well, I'm not a Canadian citizen and personally, I don't find bearded cavewomen attractive, nor do I like hockey, the French, igloos, yaks, or for my testacles to shrink to the size of raisins. However, for a while now, I've had a desperate need to escape this place. You people are insane and it's really no surprise that most of the world (sans those countries who desperately rely on your foreign aid) absolutely hate you. Even with the Iraqi war, Blair lost immense popularity and credibility with the people. Throughout the world, both Europe, Canada, and Australia, showed strong opposition to Bush as well as the war. In Australia, there were even several thousand people who got naked, joined hands, and spelled out the peace symbol.

If thousands of people are going to get naked and spell ANY symbol in opposition to what you're doing, I really believe you should rethink what you're doing. The Bush administration has paid journalists to put forth propaganda, locked up and tortured innocent people, and pretty much turned America into a police-state, with the Patriot Act. Now, many Conservatives say, "...BUT IT ISN'T ALL BUSH'S FAULT!" And you're quite right. It isn't. For this reason, you could say that, no, it isn't just Bush that is corrupt, but a majority of the government.

I'd signed a contract to join the Navy, but I morally object to paying taxes or serving the government in any way. I called the Center on Conscience and War (http://www.nisbco.org/) and I am not legally responsible until I am "officially" sworn in, at bootcamp. Since I'm both a British and an American citizen (dual-citizenship), tomorrow, I am applying for a passport and getting the hell out of this god-forsaken country.

God have mercy on you all. When your corrupt regime collapses and you are run by Microsoft and Wal-Mart, don't come crying to anyone for foreign aid. Because you are the absolute epitome of hypocrasy, selfishness, and ignorance. For those who have seen the movie, Office Space, America is the "Bill Lumbergh" of the world. Like the main character, I am sick of working under him, a slave under his corrupt, cold, "free market" ways. And so, I start a new life, a better life... in Britain. And while there's corruption there too, I'm sure, at least there's some spark of hope. But as for America, after discovering Bush was paying for propaganda and no one has immediately been prosecuted, I've totally lost what little faith I had in America.


yes except since you signed the contract your obligated to the navy. and i believe us and britain and many other european countries have extradition treaties so your screwed if they decide to come after you.

yes except since you signed the contract your obligated to the navy. and i believe us and britain and many other european countries have extradition treaties so your screwed if they decide to come after you.

They won't come after him. Since he pussied out before even going to BootCamp, they'll just tear up his contract and make sure his name is known to the other recruiters that he's not trustworthy or reliable.

From the sounds of it, he signed up, got scared, and is now trying to find any justification he can to avoid responsibility for his actions.

I feel sorry for whatever country he flees to w/ his tail between his legs.

:eek: OH NOES!

America honestly isn't that bad, even if your liberal. George Bush's reign of terror will be over soon enough.

I'm not going to argue with you on xenophobia or any of the others. I'm not trying to hype up Japan. All I am saying is that I don't think Japan is accepting of child molesters. If you want to say that Japan is full of child molesters, but we don't see them in police statistics, fine. I obviously can't argue with that. I do think the media reaction I wrote about makes that unlikely. If there was a huge number of unreported molestations in Japan that society accepted, one more molestation wouldn't be newsworthy. If you want to hate Japan, go ahead. They certainly have their share of problems. But I have no reason to think that pedophilia is a bigger problem here than it is in the US, and some evidence that points to the opposite.

Why do you have a Japanese screenname?