NationStates Jolt Archive

Do you think that if Bush was socially liberal he would be president of America? My hypothetical Bush would still be a tax-cutter and all that, and he would still be implementing the neo-con policy of unprovoked war/democracy-spreading (however you prefer to look at it), but he would be in favour of abortion rights, gay marriage, separation of church and state and liberalised sex education.

What do you think?

Do you think that if Bush was socially liberal he would be president of America? My hypothetical Bush would still be a tax-cutter and all that, and he would still be implementing the neo-con policy of unprovoked war/democracy-spreading (however you prefer to look at it), but he would be in favour of abortion rights, gay marriage, separation of church and state and liberalised sex education.

What do you think?

Oh, like Bill Clinton. Bush has to catch up - Clinton attacked seven different countries.

Do you think that if Bush was socially liberal he would be president of America? My hypothetical Bush would still be a tax-cutter and all that, and he would still be implementing the neo-con policy of unprovoked war/democracy-spreading (however you prefer to look at it), but he would be in favour of abortion rights, gay marriage, separation of church and state and liberalised sex education.

What do you think?

Not a chance, he would not be popular with either of the major parties.

Oh, like Bill Clinton. Bush has to catch up - Clinton attacked seven different countries.
Slight difference between attacking and invading.

Slight difference between attacking and invading.

Firing cruise missiles here and there to distract the press from your philandering isn't something that Bush is up to yet.

When Clinton lied, nobody died...

Firing cruise missiles here and there to distract the press from your philandering isn't something that Bush is up to yet.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

i kinda find it funny that the same people who say this crap are the ones who say that Clinton did nothing to stop Osama

here's the timeline:

1) clinton gets caught with his pants down. hilarity ensues.
2) Osama& cronies bomb two US embassies in african muslim nations
3) Clinton pushes Le Button on Afganistan. Missles fly
4) Republicans accuse him of trying to change the subject
5) Clinton stops bombing of Osama's caves to deal with impeachment issues
6) End of term. Florida fiasco
7) Bush swears in ("I R ThE PreziDent")
8) 9/11
9) Repubs blame clinton for not doing anything

If Bush was a social liberal, I'd probably still disagree with him. Perhaps not as vehemently, but I truly despise his shameless pandering to the corporate world and his relentless assault on environmental regulations. And the social safety net.

Though if Bush were like that, he wouldn't get elected: he'd piss off the authoritarian right and would not appeal to the economically leftist side of the Democratic party.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!
i kinda find it funny that the same people who say this crap are the ones who say that Clinton did nothing to stop Osama


Yes, Clinton was offered Osama three times by the Sudanese government - and he refused. Three times.

They said that all we had to do was come to the Khartoum airport and pick his ass up. All arranged.

Nice going, Bill.

Yes, Clinton was offered Osama three times by the Sudanese government - and he refused. Three times.

They said that all we had to do was come to the Khartoum airport and pick his ass up. All arranged.

Nice going, Bill.


i'm going to have to ask you to source that one.

i got my fancy little timeline from a BBC/PBS special on the history of Osama made shortly after the attacks.

if i can find the transcript, i'll post a link

[edit] hmmm... maybe it wasn't BBC or PBS.

ah well

i'm going to have to ask you to source that one.

i got my fancy little timeline from a BBC/PBS special on the history of Osama made shortly after the attacks.

if i can find the transcript, i'll post a link

Losing Bin Laden : How Bill Clinton's Failures Unleashed Global Terror
by Richard Miniter

It's a book about every step of the way - between Bill and Madeline Albright, they fucked up big time.

His sources are direct interviews with the participants. Including Madeline Albright as regards the refusal to take Bin Laden when offered.

Losing Bin Laden : How Bill Clinton's Failures Unleashed Global Terror
by Richard Miniter

It's a book about every step of the way - between Bill and Madeline Albright, they fucked up big time.

His sources are direct interviews with the participants. Including Madeline Albright as regards the refusal to take Bin Laden when offered.

was that before or after he had done the bombings?

Yes, Clinton was offered Osama three times by the Sudanese government - and he refused. Three times.

They said that all we had to do was come to the Khartoum airport and pick his ass up. All arranged.

Nice going, Bill.

Except that the person who offered Osama wasn't even affiliated with the Sudanese government. The Pentagon though he was unreliable. His name was Mansor Ijaz, he was from Pakistan, and he had a big stake in Sudanese oil, and was thus interested in the lifting of American sanctions against Sudan. The US government asked the actual Sudanese government about the offer, they said that it was a bunch of horseshit. So, Ijaz was a liar. Now he works at Fox News, as a foreign affairs consultant.

Do you think that if Bush was socially liberal he would be president of America? My hypothetical Bush would still be a tax-cutter and all that, and he would still be implementing the neo-con policy of unprovoked war/democracy-spreading (however you prefer to look at it), but he would be in favour of abortion rights, gay marriage, separation of church and state and liberalised sex education.

What do you think?
I think this question brings to mind the song, "What if God was one of us?"

Or, if you're a Conservative, you'd mention the parody, "What if God smoked cannibus?"

was that before or after he had done the bombings?

After the first World Trade Center bombing. After he knew that Bin Laden and al-Qaeda were working.

It also contains Richard Clarke's astonished presence at a meeting deciding on how to react to the USS Cole bombing. Everyone in Clinton's cabinet, and Clinton, didn't think it would be legal to try and kill Bin Laden. Clarke was the only one who advocated doing anything, and he said they just ignored him.

This was confirmed by Albright.

I'd have an easier time with him. But I would argue, Swimmingpool, that he wouldn't have been re-elected in '04 if he was. It was the social conservative/authoritarian voters that won him those swing states [gay marriage referendum, please don't say that wasn't politically engineered]. If he was socially liberal, he would only be able to run on war and economics, two areas which he's not incredibly strong in, at least in my opinion. Without social authoritarianism, he wouldn't have been able to rally the far right quite as well as he did.

Except that the person who offered Osama wasn't even affiliated with the Sudanese government. The Pentagon though he was unreliable. His name was Mansor Ijaz, he was from Pakistan, and he had a big stake in Sudanese oil, and was thus interested in the lifting of American sanctions against Sudan. The US government asked the actual Sudanese government about the offer, they said that it was a bunch of horseshit. So, Ijaz was a liar. Now he works at Fox News, as a foreign affairs consultant.

Wasn't horseshit. This was confirmed by Tenet and Albright in the book, by direct interview. They met with Sudanese goverment officials in Rosslyn, Virginia and the Sudanese were astonished at the refusal. Albright said it would be a violation of international law.

I'd like to here more from the Bush supporters on this topic. (Much as I enjoy Whispering Legs' Clinton-bashing, it's not really what we're talking about.)

After the first World Trade Center bombing. After he knew that Bin Laden and al-Qaeda were working.

It also contains Richard Clarke's astonished presence at a meeting deciding on how to react to the USS Cole bombing. Everyone in Clinton's cabinet, and Clinton, didn't think it would be legal to try and kill Bin Laden. Clarke was the only one who advocated doing anything, and he said they just ignored him.

This was confirmed by Albright.


http://www.mipt.org/pdf/NCTAUTUS-Staff-Statement-5.pdf

Staff Statement No. 5 of the 9/11 Commisson found that the rumors of Sudan offering Bin Laden to the US were false. No representative of the Sudanese government ever offered Bin Laden to anyone in the US government. The Sudanese government did offer to give Bin Laden to Saudi Arabia, but the Saudis didn't want him.

From the Staff Statement:
"Sudan did offer to expel Bin Ladin to Saudi Arabia and asked the Saudis to pardon him. U.S. officials became aware of these secret discussions, certainly by March 1996. The evidence suggests that the Saudi government wanted Bin Ladin expelled from Sudan, but would not agree to pardon him. The Saudis did not want Bin Ladin back in their country at all.
[...]there was no chance that Sudan would ever turn Bin Ladin over to a hostile country. If Sudan had been serious, Clarke said, the United States would have worked something out[...]"

Eventually, the Sudanese allowed Bin Laden to travel to Afghanistan. In conclusion, there never was any offer from the Sudanese government to give Bin Laden to the US goverment. IT NEVER HAPPENED.

Eventually, the Sudanese allowed Bin Laden to travel to Afghanistan. In conclusion, there never was any offer from the Sudanese government to give Bin Laden to the US goverment. IT NEVER HAPPENED.

Then I guess Madeline Albright lied in the book.

I might add that if you believe the 9-11 Report, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you...

I might add that if you believe the 9-11 Report, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you...
I actually bought that. Did I waste my money?