NationStates Jolt Archive

Is alcohol just an excuse?

I'm sure many of you have heard stories from friends or on the news about people who get drunk and do something "against their will" - or something they never would have done sober.

But I'm not convinced that alcohol trumps free will.

Of course, alcohol lowers inhibitions, and there certainly are social/health reasons that such inhibitions exist. So it is possible that someone would do something when drunk that he/she would not actually do when sober.

Additionally, alcohol retards psychomotor skills, and so a tipsy/drunk person may not be able to protest or defend him/herself to the extent that a sober person could.

However, can alcohol make you actively do something you would not want to do sober?

Spoiler (my thoughts):
I have heard friends and others claim this - but I simply don't believe it. If you say something outrageous while drunk, I think you would have at least thought it (even if not brought yourself to say it) while sober. If you flirt, hook up with someone, steal, or fight while drunk - you had potential to do those things while sober, but may simply have been prevented from doing so by inhibitions.

And I think that people use the excuse of alcohol to do things they want to do, but don't want to face the consequences for them. Because I believe if you truly want to avoid doing or saying something, you can - no matter how much alcohol you have had.

^---- Lamest excuse ever

Stupidity doesn't equate to loss of free will.

I ran around a bejing hotel semu-naked once (bar underwear) after a night of extremely heavy drinking, i felt like the people in 28 days later i really coulnt control myself.

There really is a stage when prehaps the signals between the concious part of the brain and the motor center, well they get a bit slowed down.

It dose require near alchol posioning drunkness though.

I ran around a bejing hotel semu-naked once (bar underwear) after a night of extremely heavy drinking, i felt like the people in 28 days later i really coulnt control myself.

There really is a stage when prehaps the signals between the concious part of the brain and the motor center, well they get a bit slowed down.

It dose require near alchol posioning drunkness though.You couldn't control yourself? You mean, you wanted to stop yourself from doing it, but you couldn't?

I have done some absurd things after drinking - but I have never done things I would absolutely forbid myself to do.

yes and no

some people do use alcohol as a way to excuse the behavior that they really wanted to do the whole time. some use it as a way to get past inhibitions. some who do really bad things (like rape and murder little girls) use drugs and alcohol as a kind of anesthesia to get past how utterly deranged they are.

some people however are easily led when drunk and end up doing things that they really wouldnt have considered or wanted to do when sober. getting into a car with another drunk at the wheel for example.

once you know yourself better and understand the effect alcohol has on you, there is no way that you can use "i was drunk" as an excuse for anything that happens.

nearly everyone that drinks, makes that choice. They make the choice to get drunk, and out of being drunk they make choices that they may not normally make with a clear head. It was still their choice to drink in the first place.

Just as a person that decides to starts a fire and isn't careful about it. If he causes a larger fire, he can't just say, "well, if I would have been more careful it wouldn't have happened" He made the choices that led to the results.

I've heard it said, a drunk man's words, are a sober man's thoughts.

I think this is true in many ways. People restrain themselves from following every whim that crosses their minds, but when drunk the logic train doesn't really work too well. Where normally our minds would come up with enough reasons to change the decision, while drunk it doesn't make it that far, so it goes, ok why not, brain goes umm, hold on, hold on, and then decision is made.

I dont think being intoxicated is an excuse for anything. If you cant control the amount you drink in proportion to what your body can handle, you have no business drinking. I hate to hear 'but I was drunk". Bah......so what? You still know right from wrong.

You couldn't control yourself? You mean, you wanted to stop yourself from doing it, but you couldn't?

I have done some absurd things after drinking - but I have never done things I would absolutely forbid myself to do.

no I had no idea I was doing it, I was only conscious of its about three times each for 2 minute bursts

to clarify i was 17 and had drunk around 12 pints of beer (and plus what my anti spirts rantings on other threads says) roughly 2 shots of tequlia, its a mircle it wasunt dead the chinese medial service being what it is.

no I had no idea I was doing it, I was only conscious of its about three times each for 2 minute bursts

to clarify i was 17 and had drunk around 12 pints of beer (and plus what my anti spirts rantings on other threads says) roughly 2 shots of tequlia, its a mircle it wasunt dead the chinese medial service being what it is.So then... imagine the most repulsive person you know (someone of a gender to which you are not usually attracted)... if that person had attempted to seduce you that night, and asked you to go down on him/her, do you think you would have been able to actively engage in that activity without having any idea of what was going on?

There must be a whole lot of women out there who want to kiss other women then. Its amazing what some shots and a chanting crowd can make two college girls do.

There must be a whole lot of women out there who want to kiss other women then. Its amazing what some shots and a chanting crowd can make two college girls do.

There is evidence that the default sexual state is some level of bisexuality. =)

That said, alcohol doesn't make you do anything. If you do something drunk, it is because you want to. Your judgement may be poor, but you want to do it on some level.

That said, this does not excuse someone who takes advantage of a drunk person. If someone is too drunk to consent to something, and you know it, *you* are responsible for your actions in taking advantage of them.

There is evidence that the default sexual state is some level of bisexuality. =)

That said, alcohol doesn't make you do anything. If you do something drunk, it is because you want to. Your judgement may be poor, but you want to do it on some level.

That said, this does not excuse someone who takes advantage of a drunk person. If someone is too drunk to consent to something, and you know it, *you* are responsible for your actions in taking advantage of them.

nothing ever fully removes personal responsiblity. if someone was drugged against their will, then I would understand that they shouldn't be held responsible.

Taking advantage of a person should never be an option, and it can not be blamed on the person that is drunk. Even if they had previously been wanting something, you should proceed with much caution. When in doubt, stay the F*ck out.

Being drunk (or high for that matter) does not in any way exonerate a person from their own resposibilities, and we are all responsible for our own actions. If you allow yourself to get drunk past the point of your own control - then its your own damn fault if you lack self control while drunk, in good ways and bad. I've heard it said, a drunk man's words, are a sober man's thoughts In vino, veritas.

In vino, veritas.
My favourite Latin saying :fluffle:

Anyway, it's surprising the things you can get persuaded to do against your better judgement while sober, so without even that your behaviour can be really bizarre. All I know that feeling stupid is not a good feeling. Fortunately for me I haven't ever drunk enough to get 'drunk' only mildly happy/tipsy. :p

It's no excuse. Alcohol may lower inhibitions, but it adds an additional burden of responsibility because you know you won't be 100%, so you need to plan ahead and make sure you won't be in a position to drive, care for kids, etc.

There is evidence that the default sexual state is some level of bisexuality. =)

That said, alcohol doesn't make you do anything. If you do something drunk, it is because you want to. Your judgement may be poor, but you want to do it on some level.

That said, this does not excuse someone who takes advantage of a drunk person. If someone is too drunk to consent to something, and you know it, *you* are responsible for your actions in taking advantage of them.Well, while I do not advocate taking advantage of a drunk person's lack of rational judgment (similarly, I don't advocate taking advantage of a stupid person's lack of rational judgment), I still think that un-coerced consent is consent. If a person knowingly drinks alcohol, becomes drunk, and actively consents and engages in an activity, then that person still is responsible.

As Drunk commies reborn pointed out, drinking alcohol adds another burden of responsibility: protecting yourself and others from decisions made with less rational judment.

And as I mentioned before, I have NEVER done something while drunk or tipsy that I would not have considered doing sober.

EDIT: But it may be argued that fully rational judgment is necessary for responsibility... let's see the implications of opening that can of worms, shall we? ;)

From what I have heard, it is a proven fact that one of the things alcohol does is dims down the part of your brain that keeps you sensible - in other words, it silences the part of your brain which tells you not to do something because it is stupid. I'm no biologist, so I can't explain any more than that, but that would explain why people do stupid things. I'm not saying that people don't have the potential to do stupid things while sober if they do them while drunk - I would agree about those who are likely to steal/fight/seduce etc while drunk are more likely to do it while sober than others - but I don't think that they can entirely stop themselves while drunk, whereas they can while sober.

Well, while I do not advocate taking advantage of a drunk person's lack of rational judgment (similarly, I don't advocate taking advantage of a stupid person's lack of rational judgment), I still think that un-coerced consent is consent. If a person knowingly drinks alcohol, becomes drunk, and actively consents and engages in an activity, then that person still is responsible.

So if a child consents to sex, that's ok? Because we are talking about the exact same thing here - a person incapable of informed consent giving consent.

From what I have heard, it is a proven fact that one of the things alcohol does is dims down the part of your brain that keeps you sensible - in other words, it silences the part of your brain which tells you not to do something because it is stupid. I'm no biologist, so I can't explain any more than that, but that would explain why people do stupid things. I'm not saying that people don't have the potential to do stupid things while sober if they do them while drunk - I would agree about those who are likely to steal/fight/seduce etc while drunk are more likely to do it while sober than others - but I don't think that they can entirely stop themselves while drunk, whereas they can while sober.Well, I think people can stop themselves from doing something they would absolutely abhor doing (or have completely forbidden themselves to do) even when they're drunk.

As Ashmoria said, "once you know yourself better and understand the effect alcohol has on you, there is no way that you can use "i was drunk" as an excuse for anything that happens."

So then... imagine the most repulsive person you know (someone of a gender to which you are not usually attracted)... if that person had attempted to seduce you that night, and asked you to go down on him/her, do you think you would have been able to actively engage in that activity without having any idea of what was going on?

I doubt it, it really depends how drunk really, there is a stage i imagine few people have gone to where you loose all cognative ability. I imagine there would be somthing of me left in there so id probally just run through a ground floor window or hit him or something, hell i dont know.

So if a child consents to sex, that's ok? Because we are talking about the exact same thing here - a person incapable of informed consent giving consent.Well, I do have to say that I think there are some special cases: children are one example, as are people with certain mental/psychological disabilities, and people who have been drugged against their will.

What's the difference? Hmm... I have some intuitions about that, but I want to give you a well-reasoned answer, so let me think about that some more.

With the proper drug, you can make anyone do anything. There are drugs that leave the subject highly vulnerable to suggestion, essentially subjecting his/her will to the will of anyone who happens to be around.

Of course, alcohol doesn't do that, but it can at least trump logic and reason, making you take irrational decisions. Doing bad/stupid things while drunk isn't so much a matter of free will as it is a matter of sanity. Simply put, alcohol makes you slightly insane. Even if your free will is intact, you can do really stupid things if your brain isn't functioning properly.

And that's a damn good reason to never get (too) drunk.

I doubt it, it really depends how drunk really, there is a stage i imagine few people have gone to where you loose all cognative ability. I imagine there would be somthing of me left in there so id probally just run through a ground floor window or hit him or something, hell i dont know.Which was kind of my point! ;) If you really didn't want to do it, you wouldn't.