NationStates Jolt Archive


My turn with the Schiavo thing.

Keruvalia
29-03-2005, 04:26
Is this really, as some would have you believe, a divisive issue along political lines? Has the quest for truth been replaced by the quest for political advocacy (as is in my sig)?

Vote and we shall see.
Kanabia
29-03-2005, 04:28
If this Schiavo thing continues for much longer, i'll commit suicide out of frustration before she dies.
Keruvalia
29-03-2005, 04:29
If this Schiavo thing continues for much longer, i'll commit suicide out of frustration before she dies.

Quiet, you! :p
Pepe Dominguez
29-03-2005, 04:29
I dunno how she's alive.. I went 18 days and change on a bet, but I still had water. She's got to be getting close to dead..
Kervoskia
29-03-2005, 04:30
We're really milking the hell out of this thing.
Keruvalia
29-03-2005, 04:32
I dunno how she's alive.. I went 18 days and change on a bet, but I still had water. She's got to be getting close to dead..

Do you suppose she'll die first, or the Pope?
Ashmoria
29-03-2005, 04:35
on the national stage i think it is a quest for political advantage.

in the personal arena each individual has a reaction based on their understanding of life and death. thats why we cant leave it alone. it is important to all of us. the sanctity of life vs the right to die is going to become more and more important as our population ages.
Kryozerkia
29-03-2005, 04:36
I say the media and congress and public should butt the hell out. Let the family live in peace and the woman live/die in dignity.
Pepe Dominguez
29-03-2005, 04:39
Do you suppose she'll die first, or the Pope?

I'm almost certain she will. She's got inactivity and small size on her side, both meaning she requires few calories to live, but that lack of water is a killer.
The Plutonian Empire
29-03-2005, 04:42
I am a rebel and I want them to keep her alive.
Kryozerkia
29-03-2005, 04:47
I am a rebel and I want them to keep her alive.
I'm a rebel and I want her left in peace. Let her live, let her die. Just stop the media feeding frenzy!
Afghregastan
29-03-2005, 04:48
I picked other because I'm neither liberal nor conservative.

I would like to see her body join her mind and for the politicians to stop exploiting the suffering her husband and family are going through.

On the political opportunism front here's an interesting article about how the neocons are milking this for all it's worth. (http://counterpunch.com/whitehurst03282005.html)
Potaria
29-03-2005, 04:48
I say let her die... There's absolutely no chance of recovery, and euthenasia is illegal, so what else are they gonna do?
Kanabia
29-03-2005, 04:53
I say the media and congress and public should butt the hell out. Let the family live in peace and the woman live/die in dignity.

Exactly!

*gives you a gold star*
German Kingdoms
29-03-2005, 04:54
Just let her go in peace.
Reasonabilityness
29-03-2005, 04:55
I say the question isn't "leave her alive or let her die" -

the question is WHO GETS TO DECIDE whether to let her die or make her live.

According to the law, since she left no written will, that decision is to be made by her lawful guardian, i.e. her husband. Her parents have no legal say in the matter.

Now, whether this law is good or bad - maybe everyone should be kept alive, or maybe a consensus among everybody that knows the person in question needs to be reached, or maybe we should just kill everyone who becomes a vegetable - that's a different issue, in my mind at least. I think that as it stands, the law is what it should be - in the absence of a written statement, such decisions are left up to the person who is legally the guardian, in this case the husband.
Mt-Tau
29-03-2005, 04:57
As I have said before, I would hate to live like that and would rather die. Though I find it horrible of having this woman die of thirst. I don't mind the decision, I just don't like the method.
Bogstonia
29-03-2005, 05:00
I wish I could 'euthanise' all these threads about her :)
Lancamore
29-03-2005, 05:01
I say... we legalize 'forced euthanasia' of pundits and news anchors. And michael jackson too.

Here's $1 that says the Pope dies first. Poor guy.
German Kingdoms
29-03-2005, 05:03
I say... we legalize 'forced euthanasia' of pundits and news anchors. And michael jackson too.

Here's $1 that says the Pope dies first. Poor guy.

I see your $1 and raise you $20 that Terri dies first.
Bolol
29-03-2005, 05:05
When a person is as foregone as Shiavo, there is no quality of life, and it would only be a case of prolonging the inevitable, then let go.

I really hate how people have blown this thing way out of proportion and turned it into a political issue.

1. This is NONE of the government's business. How the Bush administration got involved is beyond me.

2. This adds more fire to the euthanasia issue. Liberals will go to the ends of the earth to legalize it, and religious conservatives will decry it as going against "God's will". The political community has turned the entire family into nothing more than a group of pawns, readily cast aside once something more tantilizing comes along.

3. The legions of protesters/"supporters" outside the hospital where they are keeping Shiavo have been asked BY THE PARENTS to disperse. When the very person you are "supporting" tells you to "fuck off" as it were, and you ignore them, there is either something wrong with the issue, or there is something wrong with you.
Nureonia
29-03-2005, 05:18
something something hypocrisy something something terry schiavo die something liberal something.

*is tired because it's 11:17 PM and figures people who just skim his post will get that out of it anyway*
Dempublicents1
29-03-2005, 05:44
I said it's none of my business - because it isn't. This was Terri's decision. She can't tell us what her decision was, so it is up to her legal guardian.

What I would like to see is all of the government "officials" butting the hell out of people's personal lives. The only thing I can figure is that the neo-Conservatives figure if the NERF marriage enough, teh gays won't want it anymore.
Preebles
29-03-2005, 05:49
Is this really, as some would have you believe, a divisive issue along political lines? Has the quest for truth been replaced by the quest for political advocacy (as is in my sig)?

Vote and we shall see.
It's nobody's business but her carers. End of story. Those protestors outside make me sick. It's none of their fucking business and they're just using her as a political football. As if they really care about her, it's all about an agenda.
Dementedus_Yammus
29-03-2005, 05:57
here's something i posted in one of the other schiavo threads:



let's just say, for a moment, that we put the tube back in, and she was returned to the state that she was in at this time last year.

what happens in 10 years, when, as a normal human being, she starts having perfectly normal health issues, say... her kidneys give out.

are you going to remove them and put her on a kidney machine?

what happens when her heart gives out for the last time. does she get an artificial one?

what if she develops breast cancer?

do they remove them?

in 500 years, is there going to be a hospital bed covered in machinery attached to 5 muscle cells called 'terry' in the center?

at what point do you just let the woman have peace?
Greedy Pig
29-03-2005, 06:01
This Schiavo thing is absolutely ridiculous. I wonder how did it even reach till a national level.

All those in favor to keep her alive, pay for her medical bills to feed her and keep her alive.

Just don't take money from the government.
German Kingdoms
29-03-2005, 06:35
here's something i posted in one of the other schiavo threads:



let's just say, for a moment, that we put the tube back in, and she was returned to the state that she was in at this time last year.

what happens in 10 years, when, as a normal human being, she starts having perfectly normal health issues, say... her kidneys give out.

are you going to remove them and put her on a kidney machine?

what happens when her heart gives out for the last time. does she get an artificial one?

what if she develops breast cancer?

do they remove them?

in 500 years, is there going to be a hospital bed covered in machinery attached to 5 muscle cells called 'terry' in the center?

at what point do you just let the woman have peace?


Amen!
Kryozerkia
29-03-2005, 15:43
The reason people like me (as a daughter) are given legal guardianship/power of attorney is to speak in the event that one of our loved ones can't. Which means, that you have become their voice; you have the say they can't, which is why the whole situation is ludicrous now.
Oksana
29-03-2005, 15:50
I say the question isn't "leave her alive or let her die" -

the question is WHO GETS TO DECIDE whether to let her die or make her live.

According to the law, since she left no written will, that decision is to be made by her lawful guardian, i.e. her husband. Her parents have no legal say in the matter.

Now, whether this law is good or bad - maybe everyone should be kept alive, or maybe a consensus among everybody that knows the person in question needs to be reached, or maybe we should just kill everyone who becomes a vegetable - that's a different issue, in my mind at least. I think that as it stands, the law is what it should be - in the absence of a written statement, such decisions are left up to the person who is legally the guardian, in this case the husband.

That question has already been answered. Inevitably she will die. He husband has power above ver parents. The question is who should have power.

This whole thing is getting to me because it's very similar to my family's situation with my grandpa and his power-of-attorney. I don't think there's any right answer. In my case, I think my family should have power over my grandfather.
Dempublicents1
29-03-2005, 15:51
That question has already been answered. Inevitably she will die. He husband has power above ver parents. The question is who should have power.

This whole thing is getting to me because it's very similar to my family's situation with my grandpa and his power-of-attorney. I don't think there's any right answer. In my case, I think my family should have power over my grandfather.

Terri chose Micheal. As such, Micheal should have power here.

Unless, like I said, the true reason the neo-cons are making such a big deal out of this is so they can NERF marriage enough that "teh gays" don't want it anymore.
Oksana
29-03-2005, 15:55
Terri chose Micheal. As such, Micheal should have power here.

Unless, like I said, the true reason the neo-cons are making such a big deal out of this is so they can NERF marriage enough that "teh gays" don't want it anymore.

I didn't say he shouldn't have power. I said my family should have power of my grandfather.

In my opinion, I'd rather have my mother have power over me than any spouse of mine.
Dempublicents1
29-03-2005, 17:13
I didn't say he shouldn't have power. I said my family should have power of my grandfather.

Even though your grandfather chose someone else?

In my opinion, I'd rather have my mother have power over me than any spouse of mine.

Then you shouldn't get married for several reasons.
Grave_n_idle
29-03-2005, 17:27
I don't match any of the conventional political options... I would say I was non-Partisan.

I think the Schiavo issue is important, more because of the way it will be used, than because of the situation itself.

This one case will be used as a precedent for how far government should intrude, for issues of 'right-to-die', for disability laws... you name it, the ramifications are going to far outweigh the relevence of this one issue.

So - I support the argument for the Right to Die, and against the artificial continuation of an otherwise non-sustaining life.
Grave_n_idle
29-03-2005, 17:29
Then you shouldn't get married for several reasons.

Certainly shouldn't get married in a 'Christian' marriage... the principle being quite clear that the individual leaves the 'responsibility' of the parents, and joins responsibility with the spouse.
Dempublicents1
29-03-2005, 17:31
Certainly shouldn't get married in a 'Christian' marriage... the principle being quite clear that the individual leaves the 'responsibility' of the parents, and joins responsibility with the spouse.

I was speaking more along general lines. If this person would not trust their spouse to carry out their wishes, they shouldn't marry that person in the first place - there isn't enough trust there.

And if they don't want the legal protections of marriage, why get it done in the first place?
Swimmingpool
29-03-2005, 17:46
Is this really, as some would have you believe, a divisive issue along political lines? Has the quest for truth been replaced by the quest for political advocacy (as is in my sig)?

Vote and we shall see.
Time: 17:44 GMT

"My politics don't matter because this is none of my business."
Looks like the poll results reflect the attitude of the general American public, as in the government should stay out of the matter.

Interestingly, more conservatives want them to let Schiavo die than keep her alive.
Grave_n_idle
29-03-2005, 17:55
I was speaking more along general lines. If this person would not trust their spouse to carry out their wishes, they shouldn't marry that person in the first place - there isn't enough trust there.

And if they don't want the legal protections of marriage, why get it done in the first place?

I agree, it would be a curious situation to 'marry' someone who you didn't feel comfortable with....

Shouldn't you feel that your life would be best cared for, by the person you are 'supposed' to be sharing it with?
Swimmingpool
29-03-2005, 18:24
I see your $1 and raise you $20 that Terri dies first.
Well, this is all pretty despicable, isn't it lads?
Ashmoria
29-03-2005, 18:54
I agree, it would be a curious situation to 'marry' someone who you didn't feel comfortable with....

Shouldn't you feel that your life would be best cared for, by the person you are 'supposed' to be sharing it with?
now who is being naive?
we marry men we wont even share our MONEY with.
sure we SHOULD marry find upstanding men who only have our best interests at heart. but reality shows that we dont

it is however curious to suppose that you would NEVER marry a man who would have your best interest at heart.
Keruvalia
29-03-2005, 18:59
Mmkay ... this is not intended to become a Schiavo discussion or rehash of arguments. The decision on Schiavo has been made and even if it were reversed, the kidney damage is probably to severe from dehydration by now for it to matter.

This is just to see if this issue is as divisive along political lines as everyone seems to think.
Carnivorous Lickers
29-03-2005, 19:06
Just let her go in peace.


going in peace might be unplugging a respirator or something stimulating a heartbeat. This poor woman is starving and dehydrating to death. Her punishment is worse than what will happen to the pedphile that raped and killed that child Jessica L in florida.
Grave_n_idle
29-03-2005, 19:20
now who is being naive?
we marry men we wont even share our MONEY with.
sure we SHOULD marry find upstanding men who only have our best interests at heart. but reality shows that we dont

it is however curious to suppose that you would NEVER marry a man who would have your best interest at heart.

I didn't say I BELIEVED that was how it was... just... shouldn't it be?
Dempublicents1
29-03-2005, 19:23
now who is being naive?
we marry men we wont even share our MONEY with.
sure we SHOULD marry find upstanding men who only have our best interests at heart. but reality shows that we dont

I would never marry a man I wouldn't share my money with.