NationStates Jolt Archive

In my reading of the gospel of Mark I came across a verse, 13:31 that says "Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.". These are the ords of Jesus in the New King James version. This has caused some confusion for me, and I was wondering if there are any priests, pastors, preachers, other religion people who played who could explain this to me.

My interpretation: Jesus's teachings are so strong that nobody will forget them

George Bush!

..sorry. This thread was too long without anyone mentioning the American President. :D

In my reading of the gospel of Mark I came across a verse, 13:31 that says "Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.". These are the ords of Jesus in the New King James version. This has caused some confusion for me, and I was wondering if there are any priests, pastors, preachers, other religion people who played who could explain this to me.

What dont you understand?

its saying that even though the earth and the heaven will be destroyed, his word will never end.

if you read the revelation of Jesus, as written and witnessed by John, you find that there is going to be a new heaven and a new earth, and even in this new world, where heaven and earth are one, Jesus's words will still ring true.

Too much God...

Too much God...
not enough coffee?

It means that there will be millions of monkeys floating in space after the world blows up typing on type writers to produce another bible so the teachings don't disappear.

or it could be that regardless of how far the earth falls away from heaven and knowledge his words will always remain, a beacon of light in a world filled with darkness that man has brought willingly upon themselves.

its saying that even though the earth and the heaven will be destroyed, his word will never end.

if you read the revelation of Jesus, as written and witnessed by John, you find that there is going to be a new heaven and a new earth, and even in this new world, where heaven and earth are one, Jesus's words will still ring true.

This is one of the reasons Jews and Muslims don't recognize Jesus as God/Messiah. No new Heaven, no new God. It's an example of a later writer perverting a teaching to their own agenda.

Heaven cannot be destroyed and God will not ever be made flesh.

This is one of the reasons Jews and Muslims don't recognize Jesus as God/Messiah. No new Heaven, no new God. It's an example of a later writer perverting a teaching to their own agenda.

Heaven cannot be destroyed and God will not ever be made flesh.

i dissagree

This is one of the reasons Jews and Muslims don't recognize Jesus as God/Messiah. No new Heaven, no new God. It's an example of a later writer perverting a teaching to their own agenda.

Heaven cannot be destroyed and God will not ever be made flesh.

I don't see a new G-d, I just see someone coming to power who has always been there. Even Genisis shows that there is pluralness to G-d. It uses a plural word when talking about G-d, and oddly enough, the singular of it is feminine.

if anything every religion is a perversion. everyone turns it into a matter of requirement rather then faith. Do you call vote for a person because you are told to by your party, or should you understand and seek knowledge about the candidate and then vote on your own will.

i dissagree

I got no problem with that. :)

In case this is what caused the confusion:

Did you think that heaven meant the place that the bible promises for those who trust in Him to spend eternity? If so, this is the fault of the english transelation. Heaven in this verse is refering to the sky, the atmosphere. In essense the verse is saying "Even though everthing that we know and hold dear here on earth, the dirt we stand on and the air we breath, were to pass away, Everything that God has promised us will hold true forever."

God does promise to make a new earth after he destroys this on in revelation.

In case this is what caused the confusion:

Did you think that heaven meant the place that the bible promises for those who trust in Him to spend eternity? If so, this is the fault of the english transelation. Heaven in this verse is refering to the sky, the atmosphere. In essense the verse is saying "Even though everthing that we know and hold dear here on earth, the dirt we stand on and the air we breath, were to pass away, Everything that God has promised us will hold true forever."

God does promise to make a new earth after he destroys this on in revelation.

but revelation says that there is to be a new heaven and a new earth, showing that they both are to pass away. It was a common belief that heaven was in the skys, and that there were multiple different levels to heaven, and that it was from there that G-d would look down and watch us. So both the skys and the heavens are rather saying the same thing.

basically in the end, Jesus's words will come true and there isn't anything that could change it.

Remeber, guys, that "Heaven" - ie: afterlife - is non-corporeal (spelling?) and completely unattached to anything we know. It's not a physical place (as we know physicality), therefore it can't be "destroyed". It's more of a STATE to be in - in Revelation, the Bible mentions New Jerusalem, where God rules in state, and we're all in his presense. This would certainly be "heaven, the afterlife', but it's ON (ie: takes place in) the "new earth". Probably with the "new heavens" above us, in the sky/stars/etc.

Remeber, guys, that "Heaven" - ie: afterlife - is non-corporeal (spelling?) and completely unattached to anything we know. It's not a physical place (as we know physicality), therefore it can't be "destroyed". It's more of a STATE to be in - in Revelation, the Bible mentions New Jerusalem, where God rules in state, and we're all in his presense. This would certainly be "heaven, the afterlife', but it's ON (ie: takes place in) the "new earth". Probably with the "new heavens" above us, in the sky/stars/etc.

eh, thats just one view point on it. I think we are reborn into a new physicall body. After all when Jesus was raised he had a physical body with the scars of the crucifiction upon him, and he had the doubters touch him. Then he went to heaven.

I think the first "heaven" means "the skies above," but translated in a way which would sound more dramatic. The implied Heaven is the real one.

Or, it could be C.S. Lewis's interpretation- There's a "pseudo-Narnia" where any can enter, with the proper methods, a kind of "heaven on earth" type thing. This, like the world, will eventually fall away as the sun gets old and dies. Then there's a "True Narnia" where the virtuous residents/friends of the first go after the end of the world/after they die. This never goes away and never changes.

Then again, in the same book, Lewis says that the Jews are all lipservice devil worshippers, and they're really atheists, too. I'd prefer to pretend The Last Battle was never written.


On preview, what Mac-Donald wrote.

if you read the whole of chapter 13, mark is talking about the end days and how terrible they will be. no matter what happens in the end times, the word of jesus will still be true and hold true and serve as a guide for you through those times.

if you read the whole of chapter 13, mark is talking about the end days and how terrible they will be. no matter what happens in the end times, the word of jesus will still be true and hold true and serve as a guide for you through those times.

yeah, I think its a metaphore as well as a statement.

basically saying that no matter what comes you can trust in Christ and to hold faith in him no matter what you are faced with.

kinda like Job, no matter what 'punishment' he had to go through, his faith remained.

In my reading of the gospel of Mark I came across a verse, 13:31 that says "Heaven and Earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away.". These are the ords of Jesus in the New King James version. This has caused some confusion for me, and I was wondering if there are any priests, pastors, preachers, other religion people who played who could explain this to me.


Let me just understand the situation here for a moment, you are in FLORIDA!!! reading the Bible. That should be a crime, You have all that sun and heat and countless things to do but nooo... you sit inside reading the Bible. :rolleyes: Look, I'm Catholic but if I was in your place I would go outside and do something else, being religious is all well and good but live a litle.
Need ideas? Here are a few....
Take a road trip to the beach
Go to Orlando or Miami and have some fun (Might have gone overboard with Miami there)
Water Spots
Spots in general, like football or Baseball
etc.
JUST STAY OUTSIDE...The only excuse you have to stay inside, if you are living in the South of the U.S., is to Study for School.

Let me just understand the situation here for a moment, you are in FLORIDA!!! reading the Bible. That should be a crime, You have all that sun and heat and countless things to do but nooo... you sit inside reading the Bible. :rolleyes: Look, I'm Catholic but if I was in your place I would go outside and do something else, being religious is all well and good but live a litle.
Need ideas? Here are a few....
Take a road trip to the beach
Go to Orlando or Miami and have some fun (Might have gone overboard with Miami there)
Water Spots
Spots in general, like football or Baseball
etc.
JUST STAY OUTSIDE...The only excuse you have to stay inside, if you are living in the South of the U.S., is to Study for School.
maybe they are reading the bible out in nature. I know that I enjoy sitting out in the trees and reading, and I've even read my bible there. Seems more fitting then in boring homes, and stone buildings. Seems more fitting to be out in the world of nature, like Jesus and John the Baptist where, then inside.

just don't lose track of faith for the pleasures of the body.

I can feel my head hurting already.

If you would like help thinking through this, I would be happy to talk to you more. I am a pastor and my e-mail is gabriel112301@yahoo.com. Just let me know who you are in the title.

Let me just understand the situation here for a moment, you are in FLORIDA!!! reading the Bible. That should be a crime, You have all that sun and heat and countless things to do but nooo... you sit inside reading the Bible. :rolleyes: Look, I'm Catholic but if I was in your place I would go outside and do something else, being religious is all well and good but live a litle.
Need ideas? Here are a few....
Take a road trip to the beach
Go to Orlando or Miami and have some fun (Might have gone overboard with Miami there)
Water Spots
Spots in general, like football or Baseball
etc.
JUST STAY OUTSIDE...The only excuse you have to stay inside, if you are living in the South of the U.S., is to Study for School.

Yes. Read your Bible. On the beach. While you tan. I will continue to stare at the snow and read my Bible from inside my oil-heated house. Continue.

BTW if you really want to read an interesting version of the Bible try The Message by Eugene Peterson. It even gets a rave review from Bono, for whatever that's worth.

I can feel my head hurting already.

If you would like help thinking through this, I would be happy to talk to you more. I am a pastor and my e-mail is gabriel112301@yahoo.com. Just let me know who you are in the title.

just out of curiosity, what church branch are you a pastor of, and did you go to college for it and such, just matters of understanding.

Mark 13:31? reading it in context. To some extent he's talking about the end of days, or some consider it as Revelations, some interpret it as persecution of the Jews.

:14 talks about the abomination of desolation spoken of Danial all the way to :37 - To watch for the signs.

But simply put it.. If everything falls and dissapears, his word would never be forgotten. It's kinda true you know (for the mean time), it's been 2000 years and people still remember Jesus. :D

Anyway, if everything dissapears, heaven and earth meets its end, His word would still remain.

Another way of interpreting it.... in the bible, words are very powerful. Like God's word. God spoke, and it happened. God's word could also mean his word is eternal. What it says it's also fact.

In case this is what caused the confusion:

Did you think that heaven meant the place that the bible promises for those who trust in Him to spend eternity? If so, this is the fault of the english transelation. Heaven in this verse is refering to the sky, the atmosphere. In essense the verse is saying "Even though everthing that we know and hold dear here on earth, the dirt we stand on and the air we breath, were to pass away, Everything that God has promised us will hold true forever."

God does promise to make a new earth after he destroys this on in revelation.
he also promises to make a new heaven, you should have remembered to say that.

he also promises to make a new heaven, you should have remembered to say that.
Why was the old one flawed? :p

Why was the old one flawed? :p

I thought it's going to be heaven on earth?

Why was the old one flawed? :p
No idea, but thats what he said, if the Christian yaweh (or yahweh or YWH or YHWH, I forget how to spell the frakking name) is as cracked up to be as he says and others say he is. Then ywh can do whatever he wants...that reminds me of a south park "whateva WHATEVA I run with NINE gangs.."

I thought it's going to be heaven on earth?
Good then it is coming to me ... I wont have to get out of my recliner

Good then it is coming to me ... I wont have to get out of my recliner
you have a recliner infront of your comp?? you lucky dog

No idea, but thats what he said, if the Christian yaweh (or yahweh or YWH or YHWH, I forget how to spell the frakking name) is as cracked up to be as he says and others say he is. Then ywh can do whatever he wants...that reminds me of a south park "whateva WHATEVA I run with NINE gangs.."
True and I supose by deffinition whatever it does is "right"

you have a recliner infront of your comp?? you lucky dog
On my laptop (which I finaly got slackware running on) :) my deskops are down in my office lol if I was at them i would have to sit in my desk chair

Remeber, guys, that "Heaven" - ie: afterlife - is non-corporeal (spelling?) and completely unattached to anything we know. It's not a physical place (as we know physicality), therefore it can't be "destroyed". It's more of a STATE to be in - in Revelation, the Bible mentions New Jerusalem, where God rules in state, and we're all in his presense. This would certainly be "heaven, the afterlife', but it's ON (ie: takes place in) the "new earth". Probably with the "new heavens" above us, in the sky/stars/etc.


The Kindom of Heaven is Now folks. Not something that will happen in the future. It's Heaven all the way to Heaven.

The Kindom of Heaven is Now folks. Not something that will happen in the future. It's Heaven all the way to Heaven.
if this is heaven, I sure don't wanna see what hell is like.

No idea, but thats what he said, if the Christian yaweh (or yahweh or YWH or YHWH, I forget how to spell the frakking name) is as cracked up to be as he says and others say he is. Then ywh can do whatever he wants...that reminds me of a south park "whateva WHATEVA I run with NINE gangs.."

YHVH is the acronym written to replace the name of G-d that was revealed to Moses, it was used to keep people from misusing the real name of G-d.

Its not Jesus is called the Messiah or Masheaich, meaning the Annointed One.

YHVH is the acronym written to replace the name of G-d that was revealed to Moses, it was used to keep people from misusing the real name of G-d.

Its not Jesus is called the Messiah or Masheaich, meaning the Annointed One.

you believe in the trinity?

It means that Jesus is the incarnate Logos, which can naver be destroyed, even after all material things, Jesus in the flesh included, cease to exist.

The Kindom of Heaven is Now folks. Not something that will happen in the future. It's Heaven all the way to Heaven.

the Kingdom of Heaven is now, because believers are the Kingdom, but the actual new heaven and new earth is to come still.

we live in the End Times, its no longer the beginning or Middle, but the end. What this means, no one knows. It doesn't mean that its a set time frame, because we are told no one knows, and if it was as simple as figuring out the age of the world so far, you would get a good guess to when the world would end.

Its more, the conditions have been met for the world to finish its tasks, and so we are entering the End Times. Now another set of tasks need to be done, and then the End comes, and the New Beginning starts, the one with no end.

hey answer my question buster!

you believe in the trinity?

I believe in the Trinity, but I don't think any human can ever understand the trinity.

G-d is in Christ, as Chirst is in us, through the Holy Spirit.

They all 3 have exsisted from the beginning, but its obvious that each part is its own, and has its own personality and rules.

I think that they are all G0d, but not all Adonai. I think G-d the Father is the Essance of Law, Jesus is the Essance of Rightousness, and the Spirit is the Essance of Spirit. But I also believe there is so much more to it then that, and I know that there is much that I will never know.

I know that which I need to know, and I may be revealed more, but I will never know it all unless the Divine feel that I must.

you passed

if this is heaven, I sure don't wanna see what hell is like.
Are you dissing gods creation? (the world)

I believe in the Trinity, but I don't think any human can ever understand the trinity.

G-d is in Christ, as Chirst is in us, through the Holy Spirit.

They all 3 have exsisted from the beginning, but its obvious that each part is its own, and has its own personality and rules.

I think that they are all G0d, but not all Adonai. I think G-d the Father is the Essance of Law, Jesus is the Essance of Rightousness, and the Spirit is the Essance of Spirit. But I also believe there is so much more to it then that, and I know that there is much that I will never know.

I know that which I need to know, and I may be revealed more, but I will never know it all unless the Divine feel that I must.


But if humans inharently can not understand it why try to explain it in flawed terms, and if humans can not explain it correctly (humans writing translating the bible) why do people take the bible as litteral truth? being as we could not even understand it if the people who wrote it could not have understood it enough to explain it correctly
Nor the people translating understand it

Are you dissing gods creation? (the world)

You of all people are asking me that?

Are you dissing gods creation? (the world)

Why not, G-d does.

besides, this is basically 'hell' right now, since we live in the world of the Adversary right now. After being removed from the Heavenly Court, he kinda gets pissy and wants to out do Jesus now.

13:31? Must suck for Mark's team to be butchered like that.

Why not, G-d does.

besides, this is basically 'hell' right now, since we live in the world of the Adversary right now. After being removed from the Heavenly Court, he kinda gets pissy and wants to out do Jesus now.

You got me..curious again, are you a Christian?Mormon?Jehova Witness? As far as I know, Lucifer just wants to steal as many souls from eternal life as possible.

But if humans inharently can not understand it why try to explain it in flawed terms, and if humans can not explain it correctly (humans writing translating the bible) why do people take the bible as litteral truth? being as we could not even understand it if the people who wrote it could not have understood it enough to explain it correctly
Nor the people translating understand it

to teach a book written by man as infallible, is a mistake.

that doesn't mean the bible is to be tossed out. we all have the Laws of G-d written upon our hearts, and by understanding that, we can challenge things, and through that comes understanding. Its an act of faith to understand things with the heart, and as you do, and you seek for the Light, Christ reveales himself to you, and brings the Spirit upon you.

One must try their best to describe things, because it gains insights to others, and may help them in their path. If you read a book on how to drive a car, and then someone else tells you there way of looking at it, you have more to base your own 'drive' on. But in the end, its our own understanding and points of view that lead us through.

the bible's original text is probably infallible

the bible's original text is probably infallible
LOL your kidding right? if not I sugest you take a look into both the history ... and take a look at the bible translated word for word

I am sure grave_n_idle would be most helpfull in some of the issues

I could also point out bible contradictions but he is the one that actualy reads hebrew/speeks aramaic .... and latin ... and greek lol

You got me..curious again, are you a Christian?Mormon?Jehova Witness? As far as I know, Lucifer just wants to steal as many souls from eternal life as possible.


Lucifur isn't the Satan or Adversary. Lucifur is a latinized statement comeing from the phrase, Bright morningstar, which was probally changed so not to confuse with Jesus being compared to the morning star.

Isaiah is talking about a fallen king of babylon when he speaks, "oh how you have fallen bright morning star." Also mentioning that the fallen King was to die, but would return in the end, perhaps the Anti-Christ.

Satan, the Adversary, was the angel that stood in heaven and would challenge people, trying to find fault in them to keep them from receiving the eternal life. He was the voice of the Law, and he promoted legalism and the like. He was the one that tested Job, by taking away everything, he was the one that fooled the prophets, to allow Danial to take his place as the Prophet, he was the one that challenged and tried to turn Jesus. With Jesus's death, the power of rightousness came to the Heavens, and the Arch Angels, led by Michael were able to cast him out of the heavens.

Now he resides on the earth, and is trying to restore his view of the "law" AFter all, what is an angel without a job?

oh, on another note, the angelic name for Satan would be Sammael.

LOL your kidding right? if not I sugest you take a look into both the history ... and take a look at the bible translated word for word

I am sure grave_n_idle would be most helpfull in some of the issues

I could also point out bible contradictions but he is the one that actualy reads hebrew/speeks aramaic .... and latin ... and greek lol

but could he tell me what language Matthew was written in?

but could he tell me what language Matthew was written in?
I do know what knoledge he knows he has spent years learning he may or may not if it is possible to know about the bible I am sure he would at least have a clue

I do know what knoledge he knows he has spent years learning he may or may not if it is possible to know about the bible I am sure he would at least have a clue

well, from what you have said though, he looks for the errors and faults, and anyone that looks for mistakes will find them, in anything.

but his insight would be welcomed, just as many greek and jewish and goyim insights were used by saul/paul in the bible. he used other people to understand better the divine.

the bible's original text is probably infallible

but it is lost to us all.

it will all boil down to faith, and I think its better that way though.

with knowledge comes the concept of worshipping because you have to, and not because you want to. faith builds the want, rules build the responsibilty.

well, from what you have said though, he looks for the errors and faults, and anyone that looks for mistakes will find them, in anything.

but his insight would be welcomed, just as many greek and jewish and goyim insights were used by saul/paul in the bible. he used other people to understand better the divine.
Ill give him a heads up ... I tend to argue the logic ... he argues the text ;)

(and though you dont claim the bible is flawless for thoes that do ... if it was flawless there would be no errors or faults :) )

Ill give him a heads up ... I tend to argue the logic ... he argues the text ;)

(and though you dont claim the bible is flawless for thoes that do ... if it was flawless there would be no errors or faults :) )

I think the big thing people tend to forget is that the bible we have now, is not the bible that Jesus taught from, and its not the bible that Moses gave, and its not the bible that Isaiah used.

Its been written, re-written, changed, added to, taken away from. The general concepts stay the same, but the meat in the middle is changed.

The New Testament is the same. I don't know how many times I've read in bibles, they point out phrases that are in some bibles, not in others, endings that aren't in the older texts, but were found in dead sea scrolls, and the like.

I see nothing of this world as being infallible. Even Jesus could have sinned and turned from G-d, but he refused to. If he could sin and turn from G-d, then any human has the chance to do the same, and to think otherwise is to be blind.

I think the whole concept of the infallible word of G-d comes mainly from the Catholic church of old, where they used the bible to gain power, and they went as far as only allowing the Church to be able to know what the bible even said. What better way to keep the masses in check then to feed them only what you want them to know, and support yourself in everything that you say.

You got me..curious again, are you a Christian?Mormon?Jehova Witness? As far as I know, Lucifer just wants to steal as many souls from eternal life as possible.

I am 'christian' but with jewish insights, as well as a very spirit bound understanding of things. I've been to numourous churches, read many doctrines and books about faith and understandings, and through all this, I've found that Christ's message is personal, and that we can only help others to find the path, but in the end, we all must walk our own path. We may have companions at times, but there are somethings that we must face alone in the matrial world, and know that the Spirit is with us.

I think the big thing people tend to forget is that the bible we have now, is not the bible that Jesus taught from, and its not the bible that Moses gave, and its not the bible that Isaiah used.

Its been written, re-written, changed, added to, taken away from. The general concepts stay the same, but the meat in the middle is changed.

The New Testament is the same. I don't know how many times I've read in bibles, they point out phrases that are in some bibles, not in others, endings that aren't in the older texts, but were found in dead sea scrolls, and the like.

I see nothing of this world as being infallible. Even Jesus could have sinned and turned from G-d, but he refused to. If he could sin and turn from G-d, then any human has the chance to do the same, and to think otherwise is to be blind.

I think the whole concept of the infallible word of G-d comes mainly from the Catholic church of old, where they used the bible to gain power, and they went as far as only allowing the Church to be able to know what the bible even said. What better way to keep the masses in check then to feed them only what you want them to know, and support yourself in everything that you say.
You are one of the few I can agree with
IF I could believe in a god I could see the bible as being a general directional pointer ... an idea on what would be good ...
But thoes that take the litteral bible as creating litteral rules based off of neuances in the text I WILL fight with :D

You are one of the few I can agree with
IF I could believe in a god I could see the bible as being a general directional pointer ... an idea on what would be good ...
But thoes that take the litteral bible as creating litteral rules based off of neuances in the text I WILL fight with :D

and that is why I will never argue that the bible is infallible.

the leading cause of athiems in the world is christians, that don't follow the message of christ, but claim they do. If your very first encounter with a car company was that it was cheap, it lied about itself, and that it had too many hidden fees, you would be turned off from them. That is the same thing that happens with all these 'christian' churches.

Faith is beyond laws and fact.

I am 'christian' but with jewish insights, as well as a very spirit bound understanding of things. I've been to numourous churches, read many doctrines and books about faith and understandings, and through all this, I've found that Christ's message is personal, and that we can only help others to find the path, but in the end, we all must walk our own path. We may have companions at times, but there are somethings that we must face alone in the matrial world, and know that the Spirit is with us.

hmmm, passed again

You are one of the few I can agree with
IF I could believe in a god I could see the bible as being a general directional pointer ... an idea on what would be good ...
But thoes that take the litteral bible as creating litteral rules based off of neuances in the text I WILL fight with :D

Hmmm on one side I have Josh McDowell (ok I know he is a McDowell atleast) who has proved the congruity and infallibility of the Bible, or so he seemed to portray in his lessons with truth and fact.

On the other hand I have truth and fact again that says...well everything Upward Thrust has been saying in this thread.

hmm indeed Watson, back to the lab!

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/ - good read

Hmmm on one side I have Josh McDowell (ok I know he is a McDowell atleast) who has proved the congruity and infallibility of the Bible, or so he seemed to portray in his lessons with truth and fact.

On the other hand I have truth and fact again that says...well everything Upward Thrust has been saying in this thread.

hmm indeed Watson, back to the lab!

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/ - good read

And Josh McDowell wins the race!

when Jesus comes he will rule the world for a thousand years according to scripture then take all believers to help him rule. We will rule with gods word. so the writing will never be gone.

And Josh McDowell wins the race!
I am hardly a biblical expert but I am a logical one ... you wish to argue specific bible translations you talk to an expert in that field I just try to understand

Nor do I have the time to devote to a full study of the bible myself because if I was going to do it right there is no way in hell I would stick to the english versions

Hmmm on one side I have Josh McDowell (ok I know he is a McDowell atleast) who has proved the congruity and infallibility of the Bible, or so he seemed to portray in his lessons with truth and fact.

On the other hand I have truth and fact again that says...well everything Upward Thrust has been saying in this thread.

hmm indeed Watson, back to the lab!

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_lowder/jury/ - good read
one 'expert' says this, another says that. If it was really that easy to proove something like the bible, would there really be as much debate about everything? Maybe its true, maybe it isn't. I believe it did, but I don't build it around pure fact, I build it around faith because its a religion, not a science.

And Josh McDowell wins the race!
the special olypmics race? are you being sarcastic or what?

Ok oK, Define infallible for me please.

I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is infallible, again. See, as a Christian I read it, understand it, and see no incongruities. Do I close my eyes to the points Grave_n_idle and UpwardThrust reveal to me? No, I interpret them differently. Just two scientists interpret data differently.

For instance: Do I choose to see the incongruity of Genesis 1 and 2 as congruity? Yes. Why? Because in my life and in my understanding I can see why that is congruity. Am I crazy? No. Am I ignoring facts? No. Am I trying to close my eyes to the cold hard truth? No.

oh.. define congruity and incongruity for me.

Originally posted by Slinao
just out of curiosity, what church branch are you a pastor of, and did you go to college for it and such, just matters of understanding.

Grace Brethren, though I must admit, I do not necessarily hold the views of most Grace Brethren. I do agree enough for the statement of faith, though.

I did go to college and majored in biblical studies, with a minor in youth ministry.

I am sorry I didn't say earlier. It is difficult to find a computer now that mine has fried, but I can answer e-mails well enough on the computer of a colleage of mine.

the special olypmics race? are you being sarcastic or what?

Ok oK, Define infallible for me please.

I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is infallible, again. See, as a Christian I read it, understand it, and see no incongruities. Do I close my eyes to the points Grave_n_idle and UpwardThrust reveal to me? No, I interpret them differently. Just two scientists interpret data differently.

For instance: Do I choose to see the incongruity of Genesis 1 and 2 as congruity? Yes. Why? Because in my life and in my understanding I can see why that is congruity. Am I crazy? No. Am I ignoring facts? No. Am I trying to close my eyes to the cold hard truth? No.

oh.. define congruity and incongruity for me.


Glad you were not being sarcastic :p I couldent tell your flow is sometimes a bit off from mine :p its cool just was hard to pickup seriousness