NationStates Jolt Archive

*I guess neocon hypocrites have compassion for their own family members at times. But why must they force Schiavo to die for the rest of her life just because they want to pick up a senate seat in Florida? That doesnt sound very prolife to me*

The Los Angeles Times has revealed that House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's family went through a similar ordeal as Schiavo's family. While Delay has denounced the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube as "an act of barbarism", he supported allowing his father to be taken off life support 16 years ago. In 1988, Delay's father suffered a freak accident and went into a coma. He was kept alive by intravenous lines and oxygen equipment. Then when his kidneys failed, the DeLay family decided against connecting him to a dialysis machine. Charles Delay died on Dec. 14, 1988 surrounded by his family. Tom Delay's mother said "There was no point to even really talking about it. There was no way [Charles] wanted to live like that. Tom knew - we all knew - his father wouldn't have wanted to live that way."
LosAngelesTimes and Democracywow.org

The way I heard ti reported was that Delay was against his fathers death but was over-ruled by his family. Am I mistaken?

Not really similar at all, but whatever. These are after all 'facts' coming from Skapedroe sources.

There is a difference between letting soemoen starve to death and cutting off the breathing machine and death occuring in a very short time.

I think it's possible that after 16 years, his position might've changed. Though, I am by no means justifying the inanity of the politician.

The way I heard ti reported was that Delay was against his fathers death but was over-ruled by his family. Am I mistaken?
yes

Not really similar at all, but whatever. These are after all 'facts' coming from Skapedroe sources.
sources that to this day after all these times I used them have never been proven false once

There is a difference between letting soemoen starve to death and cutting off the breathing machine and death occuring in a very short time.
why? is starving to death any less horrific then not being able to breathe?

I think it's possible that after 16 years, his position might've changed. Though, I am by no means justifying the inanity of the politician.
his position may change but the fact that hes a bottomfeeding scumbag and crook will never change

There is a difference between letting soemoen starve to death and cutting off the breathing machine and death occuring in a very short time.
oh yes suffocating is MUCH nicer than starving.

why? is starving to death any less horrific then not being able to breathe?
people on breathing machines typically are in a coma and/or have no brain wave activity whatsoever. Terri can feel pain....terri has made an attempt to communicate for food. that IS bareberous. i wouldn;t do that to a dog.

people on breathing machines typically are in a coma and/or have no brain wave activity whatsoever. Terri can feel pain....terri has made an attempt to communicate for food. that IS bareberous. i wouldn;t do that to a dog.

Ohh yes. I forgot that AAAAH WAAAA signifies food.

rush limbaugh was ranting about this story this morning

he finds it a terrible invasion of the delays privacy, improper to bring up, and utterly unlike the schiavo story.


some people find a difference between not hooking a person up to machines and removing the machines. i find them to be essentially the same decision.

delay was just hoping to get the focus off himself and his ethics violations and onto an issue that could make him look like a champion of life. oops.

Yeah, Skape-I think you're better off with the inconsistancy of Bush's stance now and his law in Texas:
Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html) says they are totally different.
ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=602214) disagrees, quoting an author of the Texas statute:
Thomas Mayo, an associate law professor at Southern Methodist University who helped draft the Texas law, said that if the Schiavo case had happened in Texas, her husband would have been her surrogate decision-maker. Because both he and her doctors were in agreement, life support would have been discontinued.


Here (http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/healthlawprof_blog/2005/03/lifesupport_sto.html) is a medical blog written by the same guy explains the law.

So, the meat of it is there. Are the conditions the same, or does that even really matter? Death is okay in Texas, but Floridians have so much to live for? Taking the DeLay thing in account, it seems horribly inconsistant. Is it grandstanding that has gone awry? Or is it another Red Herring to destract us from things like both parties are selling us out to creditors or other such nonsense?

his position may change but the fact that hes a bottomfeeding scumbag and crook will never change
exactly.

Politicians are blood sucking parasites on the hide of society.

why? is starving to death any less horrific then not being able to breathe?

probably far, far more horrific

try going a minute without breathing

try fasting for two days (fasting = don't eat)

see which is more painful

the duration of pain -- no contest. suffocate me any day, but do not make me starve to death.

Where's Kevorkian when you need him?

and ... many of us probably deem most of your "sources" to be shameless smear-tactic-propaganda "pro-freedom" (but not pro-iraqi freedom somehow...) sites which, if Mother Theresa (or is it "Teresa"?) herself were to be elected president of the US as a Republican... would stoop to shamelessly smearing her.

skap..get on AIM....waiting for you man....or are you mad at me?

people on breathing machines typically are in a coma and/or have no brain wave activity whatsoever. Terri can feel pain....terri has made an attempt to communicate for food. that IS bareberous. i wouldn;t do that to a dog.
I agree it wouldve been much more compassionate to give her a heroin overdoze but in America they worship pain and criminalize any form of pleasure

people on breathing machines typically are in a coma and/or have no brain wave activity whatsoever. Terri can feel pain....terri has made an attempt to communicate for food. that IS bareberous. i wouldn;t do that to a dog.
Uh... Terri cannot feel pain, have you seen the CAT scans? The part of hre brain that would feel pain is gone and replaced by spinal fluid. She cannot communicate. The only part of her brain that functions is her brain stem.

rush limbaugh was ranting about this story this morning

he finds it a terrible invasion of the delays privacy, improper to bring up, and utterly unlike the schiavo story.


some people find a difference between not hooking a person up to machines and removing the machines. i find them to be essentially the same decision.

delay was just hoping to get the focus off himself and his ethics violations and onto an issue that could make him look like a champion of life. oops.
I guess the pill popping fatboy doesnt think Schiavo has the same privacy rights as criminals like Delay

I guess the pill popping fatboy doesnt think Schiavo has the same privacy rights as criminals like Delay
Of course not.

Haven't you heard that this is a very good political issue for the Republicraps?

Yeah, Skape-I think you're better off with the inconsistancy of Bush's stance now and his law in Texas:
Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html) says they are totally different.
ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=602214) disagrees, quoting an author of the Texas statute:



Here (http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/healthlawprof_blog/2005/03/lifesupport_sto.html) is a medical blog written by the same guy explains the law.

So, the meat of it is there. Are the conditions the same, or does that even really matter? Death is okay in Texas, but Floridians have so much to live for? Taking the DeLay thing in account, it seems horribly inconsistant. Is it grandstanding that has gone awry? Or is it another Red Herring to destract us from things like both parties are selling us out to creditors or other such nonsense?
all the people who matter know

probably far, far more horrific

try going a minute without breathing

try fasting for two days (fasting = don't eat)

see which is more painful

the duration of pain -- no contest. suffocate me any day, but do not make me starve to death.

Where's Kevorkian when you need him?

and ... many of us probably deem most of your "sources" to be shameless smear-tactic-propaganda "pro-freedom" (but not pro-iraqi freedom somehow...) sites which, if Mother Theresa (or is it "Teresa"?) herself were to be elected president of the US as a Republican... would stoop to shamelessly smearing her.
I 100% disagree--fasting causes spiritual enlightenment whereas not being able to breathe causes an agonizing death by lung explosions. As for my sources they are as reliable as God and "smear" the evil and their anti human agenda by exposing the aweful Truth

skap..get on AIM....waiting for you man....or are you mad at me?
no--I like talking to you, I seek to deprogram you ;)

Of course not.

Haven't you heard that this is a very good political issue for the Republicraps?
yeah my sources keep me well informed unlike those peoples who have their minds raped by foxnews

I 100% disagree--fasting causes spiritual enlightenment whereas not being able to breathe causes an agonizing death by lung explosions. As for my sources they are as reliable as God and "smear" the evil and their anti human agenda by exposing the aweful Truth
I have to agree.

When a person willingly fasts, they know what they are in for, and the pain can be overcome after a couple of hours.

Starving to death is not horrible for Terri Schiavo. Remember, her brain is liquefied. I personally would prefer if a doctor could give her a lethal injection, but that's not an option.

rush limbaugh was ranting about this story this morning

he finds it a terrible invasion of the delays privacy, improper to bring up, and utterly unlike the schiavo story.
What, and does Rush not think that federal involvement in the Schiavo case is an invasion of privacy?

yeah my sources keep me well informed unlike those peoples who have their minds raped by foxnews
My head hurts just thinking about the minor assault that fox "news" had on my brain in the three minutes that I once watched it out of perverse and extremely morbid curiousity.

Yeah, I'm not surprised that some people think like that avfter watching such right-wing propoganda filled bullshit.

It's politics. It's all politics. Ethics, privacy, compassion, dignity, honesty... none of it matters.

The Republicans have gone mad with power in the course of ten years. It took the Democrats four times as long to get half as corrupt.

Something has gone horribly wrong.

It's politics. It's all politics. Ethics, privacy, compassion, dignity, honesty... none of it matters.

The Republicans have gone mad with power in the course of ten years. It took the Democrats four times as long to get half as corrupt.

Something has gone horribly wrong.
Maybe they're just surprised with just how powerful they have suddenly become while there have been major shifts in the demographics and ideology of their own party.

*I guess neocon hypocrites have compassion for their own family members at times. But why must they force Schiavo to die for the rest of her life just because they want to pick up a senate seat in Florida? That doesnt sound very prolife to me*


I guess neanderlib understanding doesn't go past what democracynow.org tells you to think.

Delay' elderly father was on full life support. Terri schiavo is on a feeding tube because her "husband" is such a scumbag he will not allow her the therapy it would take to get her eating on her own again. The scumbag wouldn't even allow the doctors to treat her baddler infections. Think before you post.

Who cares? Besides I heard of this before you posted it

I guess neanderlib understanding doesn't go past what democracynow.org tells you to think.

Delay' elderly father was on full life support. Terri schiavo is on a feeding tube because her "husband" is such a scumbag he will not allow her the therapy it would take to get her eating on her own again. The scumbag wouldn't even allow the doctors to treat her baddler infections. Think before you post.

Read up on PVS, there isn't a therapy to help them eat.

*I guess neocon hypocrites have compassion for their own family members at times. But why must they force Schiavo to die for the rest of her life just because they want to pick up a senate seat in Florida? That doesnt sound very prolife to me*

The Los Angeles Times has revealed that House Majority Leader Tom DeLay's family went through a similar ordeal as Schiavo's family. While Delay has denounced the removal of Schiavo's feeding tube as "an act of barbarism", he supported allowing his father to be taken off life support 16 years ago. In 1988, Delay's father suffered a freak accident and went into a coma. He was kept alive by intravenous lines and oxygen equipment. Then when his kidneys failed, the DeLay family decided against connecting him to a dialysis machine. Charles Delay died on Dec. 14, 1988 surrounded by his family. Tom Delay's mother said "There was no point to even really talking about it. There was no way [Charles] wanted to live like that. Tom knew - we all knew - his father wouldn't have wanted to live that way."
LosAngelesTimes and Democracywow.org

And still, people will equivocate for him, defend him with semantics and anecdotal evidence, and keep voting for him...thus the vicious cycle of grandstanding politics continues unabated....(while people on both sides of the isle who are willing to make a REAL difference in government wait in the wings forever)

I guess neanderlib understanding doesn't go past what democracynow.org tells you to think.

Delay' elderly father was on full life support. Terri schiavo is on a feeding tube because her "husband" is such a scumbag he will not allow her the therapy it would take to get her eating on her own again. The scumbag wouldn't even allow the doctors to treat her baddler infections. Think before you post.
Let me first state that I am an ardent conservative on almost all issues.


Terri Schiavo suffers from a set of conditions that will never allow her to properly eat again. There is no therapy that can help her eat ever again.

Let me put it to you this way, if you were in a freak accident, and became for all intents and purposes a "vegetable", that is, you lost all your motor functions and may very well have lost even basic cognitive functions, would you want your body (because at that point thats all you are) being kept alive for an indeterminate time without any hope for a change in your status? This man is trying to let his wife die with some degree of dignity, instead of prolonging her status as a vegetable. She has no hope of recovery. There is no true hope she will ever again express basic cognitive functions. Her families claim they heard her try to vocalize some plea was not only ridiculous, but nigh on insulting.

Let me also put this to you another way: Do you support the life sentence in jail without parole over the death penalty? In one regard they are the same thing, you will be confined in jail until you die, the difference being in one case you are put to death, and in another you must wait to naturally die. The question is, do you believe that the common citizen should have to pay for that man to stay in prison for life, when they may live a good 60 years, or should they be killed once their guilt has been proven? Furthermore, which do you think is worse punishment, the long wait without hope of freedom, or a quick death? Looking at this way, do you think this husband should be allowed to let her die now, or slowly wait for some other condition to arise that kills her?


(Let me further say that Tom Delay is a scumbag of a magnitude beyond any mere man such as Schiavo. I hope the ethics committee brings him down in a heap of burning ashes, he's a blemish on his party)

Uh... Terri cannot feel pain, have you seen the CAT scans? The part of hre brain that would feel pain is gone and replaced by spinal fluid. She cannot communicate. The only part of her brain that functions is her brain stem.

Then why do they have her on Morphine? Morphine is for pain and if she can not feel pain why have her on strong pain medication?

The two are different though

Delay's Father- Was in a comma, had kidney failure and problems breathing, needed a feeding tube to keep fed and hydrated.

Terri- is not in a comma, kidneys functioning well enough save for the dehydration she is experiencing now, and she can breathe on her own. She needs a feeding tube to keep fed and hydrated.

Oh wait there is the similarities, oh so sorry I mean who cares if a person can breathe, and have functioning organs as long as they need a tube to feed themselves well damn they need to DIE!

yes

From a different news source,


"Tom went along" with the family's decision, [his mother] said.


Sounds to me like he did not agree with the decision.

Tom went along with the familys decision sounds alot like he agreed to me

As much as I hate to defend a scumbag like Delay, and I'm personally for giving her a quick death, I do have to support factual accuracy...
There is a difference- Schiavo's blood family wants her to go on. Delay, who is his father's blood relative, wanted him to die. Even if his opinions haven't changed over the 16 years between the two cases, it might be internally consistent.

people on breathing machines typically are in a coma and/or have no brain wave activity whatsoever. Terri can feel pain....terri has made an attempt to communicate for food. that IS bareberous. i wouldn;t do that to a dog.ERm... Devil's advocate, just in case you don't belive that's bull, let's pretend you're right. She begs for food the moment a feeding tube is removed from her mouth. You want her to continue in this condition, and you think letting her die of starvation is barbarous, compared to living indefinitely in a condition often described as one of the punishments of Hell?

Delay' elderly father was on full life support. Terri schiavo is on a feeding tube because her "husband" is such a scumbag he will not allow her the therapy it would take to get her eating on her own again. The scumbag wouldn't even allow the doctors to treat her baddler infections. Think before you post.

You mean the therapy he flew her around the country for 8 years going to every speciallist he could find before finally being told by everyone that it was no use?

Perhaps *you* should think before you post.

As much as I hate to defend a scumbag like Delay, and I'm personally for giving her a quick death, I do have to support factual accuracy...
There is a difference- Schiavo's blood family wants her to go on. Delay, who is his father's blood relative, wanted him to die. Even if his opinions haven't changed over the 16 years between the two cases, it might be internally consistent.

ERm... Devil's advocate, just in case you don't belive that's bull, let's pretend you're right. She begs for food the moment a feeding tube is removed from her mouth. You want her to continue in this condition, and you think letting her die of starvation is barbarous, compared to living indefinitely in a condition often described as one of the punishments of Hell?Let's not forget that the two medical situations are completly different and comparing them is asinine to pelosi level.

Oh wait there is the similarities, oh so sorry I mean who cares if a person can breathe, and have functioning organs as long as they need a tube to feed themselves well damn they need to DIE!

Many, many people would not want to continue in either condition. Guess who they leave in charge of carrying out their wishes? -- Their next-of-kin!

Seriously though, the true tragedy in all of this is that the Schindlers have turned there daughter into nothing more than a political tool. Since they think they are mind readers and know Terri better than her husband and friends, despite evidence that they were horribly out of touch even before her collapse, do you think they have asked Terri (who was always well-done up and dressed in the pictures we see of her before her collapse) if she wants to be shown on national TV every night with spaced-out eyes and her mouth wide open and drooling?

As much as I hate to defend a scumbag like Delay, and I'm personally for giving her a quick death, I do have to support factual accuracy...
There is a difference- Schiavo's blood family wants her to go on. Delay, who is his father's blood relative, wanted him to die. Even if his opinions haven't changed over the 16 years between the two cases, it might be internally consistent.

Who do you think is more likely to know someone's wishes, their friends and spouse, or their parents who apparently aren't even aware that they had gone non-practicing in their religion?

Seriously though, the true tragedy in all of this is that the Schindlers have turned there daughter into nothing more than a political tool.
Speaking of tools... Exactly how is trying to save your daughters life turning her into a political tool?

Shaddap. :rolleyes:

*I guess neocon hypocrites have compassion for their own family members at times.


Republicans are hippocrites. Everybody knows that and don't deny it with your pointless excuses all you crazy right-wingers. :D

Maybe they're just surprised with just how powerful they have suddenly become while there have been major shifts in the demographics and ideology of their own party.Maybe. I'm a cynic, though. I'll stick with the destruction of Western civilization. :D

Republicans are hippocrites. Everybody knows that and don't deny it with your pointless excuses all you crazy right-wingers. :D
Klashonite, generalizations like your lame one above are trite, so go back to your coloring book.

Klashonite, generalizations like your lame one above are trite, so go back to your coloring book.

what part of "pointless excuses" you don't understand u right-winger?

Tom Delay is trying to hide his corruption behind Terri Schiavos living corpse

what part of "pointless excuses" you don't understand u right-winger?
You, stop talking. You're making anyone who agrees with your point of view seem stupid by association.

Tom Delay is trying to hide his corruption behind Terri Schiavos living corpse
ShadyFiend is trying to hide his lack of education by hiding behind the anonymity of the Internet.

Klash speaks truth to power--dont silence the dissent

Tom Delay is trying to hide his corruption behind Terri Schiavos living corpse

yes it is sad...

You, stop talking. You're making anyone who agrees with your point of view seem stupid by association.

wow. u still don't understand what "pointless excuses" mean right-winger. i'm not gonna bother arguing with you cause you'll just come up with more. lol lol :D

Klash speaks truth to power--dont silence the dissent

finally, someone who knows what he is talking about. the only thing on conservatives minds is the church and how much money they'll make.

wow. u still don't understand what "pointless excuses" mean right-winger. i'm not gonna bother arguing with you cause you'll just come up with more. lol lol :D
No apparently you don't get it. I am by no means a right winger, and "agree" with what you're saying. But you are making anyone who holds this opinion seem stupid with your replies.

Just. Stop. Talking.

I get attacked, from opposite sides, on the same issue, three minutes apart. Somehow, this fills me with enough joy to weasel out of both in the same post.

Salchicho- Yes, "thank you for augmenting my point" if you were agreeing, and "Yes, thank you for augmenting my point :rolleyes:" if you were trying to argue with me.

Dempublicents- Yes, that's why I'd prefer her to have a quick death. I was just explaining why it's possible he ain't a hypocrite. He doesn't agree with "person you spend every day with knows more than person you've known for years, but rarely talk to anymore."

No apparently you don't get it. I am by no means a right winger, and "agree" with what you're saying. But you are making anyone who holds this opinion seem stupid with your replies.

Just. Stop. Talking.

"But you are making anyone who holds this opinion seem stupid with your replies." - i wonder how do you come up with this stuff. lol.

and, i have every right to express my idea's and talk.

No apparently you don't get it. I am by no means a right winger, and "agree" with what you're saying. But you are making anyone who holds this opinion seem stupid with your replies.

Just. Stop. Talking.
Bad mistake--never side with the neocon agenda of silencing dissent. Kash speak out more. Exorcize the neocon demons with the power of your Truth

Klash and shady are the same people.

Look on how they are backing eachother up.

It's politics. It's all politics. Ethics, privacy, compassion, dignity, honesty... none of it matters.

The Republicans have gone mad with power in the course of ten years. It took the Democrats four times as long to get half as corrupt.

Something has gone horribly wrong.
*thunder booms somewhere nearby, out of sight but not out of mind*

Well put.

Speaking of tools... Exactly how is trying to save your daughters life turning her into a political tool?

When you have no idea of her own life and wishes, that's about all it can be.

When you have no idea of her own life and wishes, that's about all it can be.
Nice try, but nope, try again.

Nice try, but nope, try again.

It's pretty obvious to anyone with a shred of an objective view that her parents are *compeletely* out of touch. They scream that she wouldn't want "X" because she is Roman Catholic, when she wasn't practicing for years before she collapsed and specifically told her friends and spouse (unless they are all lying) that she did want it. I'd say that's pretty out of touch.

people on breathing machines typically are in a coma and/or have no brain wave activity whatsoever. Terri can feel pain....terri has made an attempt to communicate for food. that IS bareberous. i wouldn;t do that to a dog.

What are you talking about? Her brain is atrophied, she cannot communicate because there are no thoughts in her head. Her cerebral cortex is basically non-existant. Read instead of posting, maybe you'll learn something.

Then why do they have her on Morphine? Morphine is for pain and if she can not feel pain why have her on strong pain medication?

The two are different though

Delay's Father- Was in a comma, had kidney failure and problems breathing, needed a feeding tube to keep fed and hydrated.

Terri- is not in a comma, kidneys functioning well enough save for the dehydration she is experiencing now, and she can breathe on her own. She needs a feeding tube to keep fed and hydrated.

Oh wait there is the similarities, oh so sorry I mean who cares if a person can breathe, and have functioning organs as long as they need a tube to feed themselves well damn they need to DIE!

Just because someone has the capability to be kept alive doesn't mean they are capable of making a recovery. Ms. Schiavo has no higher brain function, she is not in a coma, she's just a poop factory. The capability of digestion does not correlate with sentient thought. Her husband has said, and the courts have determined from the testimony of many who knew her, that her wishes were not to be kept alive in this condition. Persistent vegitative state...look it up. She doesn't have the capability to be rehabilitated now, if she ever did.

:eek: (I can't believe I'm agreeing with Skap!)