NationStates Jolt Archive

I have heard many people say that Jesus was a Jew. But how can this be so? For anyone who believes in Jesus and Christianity, we know that Jesus was concieved in the virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus had none of his mothers or fathers blood truly in him. He was created soley by God and the Holy Spirit. So are they saying God is a Jew then? How can that be so? If God is in everyone and whatnot. Plus no one knows what he looks like or anything. He was just always here. No nationality or anything. So how can Jesus be a Jew? In my opininion he isnt!

I have heard many people say that Jesus was a Jew. But how can this be so? For anyone who believes in Jesus and Christianity, we know that Jesus was concieved in the virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus had none of his mothers or fathers blood truly in him. He was created soley by God and the Holy Spirit. So are they saying God is a Jew then? How can that be so? If God is in everyone and whatnot. Plus no one knows what he looks like or anything. He was just always here. No nationality or anything. So how can Jesus be a Jew? In my opininion he isnt!
Who said there was none of his mothers blood in him ... unless they are using a different meaning of "concived"

Jesus (according to the Bible [check Matthew 1 and Luke 3]) was a descendant of David, and therefore a Jew.
But, it really doesn't matter, does it, since the Bible says to be impartial. Nationality is irrelevant.

I have heard many people say that Jesus was a Jew. But how can this be so? For anyone who believes in Jesus and Christianity, we know that Jesus was concieved in the virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus had none of his mothers or fathers blood truly in him. He was created soley by God and the Holy Spirit. So are they saying God is a Jew then? How can that be so? If God is in everyone and whatnot. Plus no one knows what he looks like or anything. He was just always here. No nationality or anything. So how can Jesus be a Jew? In my opininion he isnt!

According to Jewish tradition, even adopted children become full members of the family.

Jesus is the fufillment of the promises to the people of Israel made in the Old Testement. One of those promises was that (logicaly) he would be of the people of Israel, IE that he would be a Jew. That counts for very little in the grand scheme of things though, since the new covenant was created for everyone.

Because being Jewish has nothing to do with blood. Judaism is a religion, not a race. If you follow the Jewish faith then you are Jewish regardless of your parentage, and Jesus was raised Jewish and practiced Judaism until the day he died. The Last Supper was even Jewish, it was actually a Passover Sedar (I think).

Well, Jesus is supposedly the son of the God of the Jews, so therefore since he is considered a God he would be of the faith that his Father's religion is, which is Judaism in this case.

Also, the Final Supper was a celebration in regard to the Jewish Passover.
His parents raised him as a Jew, and he began his ministry debating the Jewish priests and scribes, so he would be. In this case, I don't think he would have to have a Jewish mother to be a Jew, since he is an exception, so to speak.

Lastly, he was circumcised and followed the Law, so he was a Jew by these standards as well.

Jesus (according to the Bible [check Matthew 1 and Luke 3]) was a descendant of David, and therefore a Jew.
i've been confused about that point for a while...for Jesus to be a descendent of David, Joseph would have had to be his father, wouldn't he? but i thought the whole point was that Mary and Joseph hadn't made Jesus together. so how does Jesus get to be a descendent of David?

Because being Jewish has nothing to do with blood. Judaism is a religion, not a race.

Actually it is a race as well as a religous practice. The word "Jew" comes from the time when Israel was divided into two. "Israel" being 10 of the 12 tribes and "Jeudah" being the other two. "Jew" links to being Israllie as well as being a follower of the Jewish faith. However I do agree, in modern terms we use "Jew" for religion primarly (although some people will use it in terms of geneology "Jewish ancestry" curious how its not applied to other religions "Muslim ancestry" etc) and "Israllie" for nationality.

i've been confused about that point for a while...for Jesus to be a descendent of David, Joseph would have had to be his father, wouldn't he? but i thought the whole point was that Mary and Joseph hadn't made Jesus together. so how does Jesus get to be a descendent of David?

Meh. I don't actually know, but I've always just assumed that Joseph counts because he was a surrogate father to Jesus.

It's still not a race tho. The tribes are the descendents of the 12sons of Jacob. They all stem from the same source.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/tribes.html

Even if he wasn't, that'd still be alright. After all it would finally kill the ridiculous "Jews killed Jesus" propaganda of the Anti-Semites, and would really weaken their propaganda base.

It's still not a race tho. The tribes are the descendents of the 12sons of Jacob. They all stem from the same source.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/tribes.html

Yes, but if you trace decendents back far enough you find *SHOCK HORROR* we are all the same. "Jew" comes from "Jeudah". Thats a fact. I am talking about facts here. Thats where the word originated from. Ignore it if you like but its a fact.

Jesus was Jewish because he was raised Jewish...he was still born from his mother so he does have her blood even if he wasn't related to Joseph and Mary they still raised him, so Jesus was Jewish.

Has anyone here heard the phrase, God's Chosen People referring to the Jews? (Well, specifically to Israelites, Old Testament Style, not modern day displaced and replaced Israel.) The seed of Israel was chosen by God to bring forth a Savior, who would be the rightful King of Israel, through the line of David. Jesus was Jewish, the son of David (through Joseph AND Mary via different sons of David, so either way, He had a claim to the throne) Not knowing what Jesus looked like is kind of a moot point. Granted, he didn't look like the modern concept of Jesus who is actually based on a medieval German saint. He was semitic. He wouldn't even look like modern Jews. He'd probably have looked like an Arab, although there are arguments that he would be a lot darker due to the invasions from Africa.

Yes, but if you trace decendents back far enough you find *SHOCK HORROR* we are all the same. "Jew" comes from "Jeudah". Thats a fact. I am talking about facts here. Thats where the word originated from. Ignore it if you like but its a fact.

Yes it's a fact. What is also fact is that they were all the same race, because they had the same genes, because they stem from the same people, the people of Jacob, another fact:D.

Yes it's a fact. What is also fact is that they were all the same race, because they had the same genes, another fact:D.

And, subscribing to this line of reasoning . . . . we're all inbred!!!
Sorry, it had to be said.
(Actually, it explains a number of questions I've had- why I become confused by day-to-day tasks, and why people don't know how to use their signal lights, and so on and so forth)

Perhaps;)

Also, Yehosa ben Joseph was the Messiah (the Christ), that means the Annointed one, the King of the Jews, which only a Jew could be, so that is another indicator that he was Jewish, that and his ancestry.

Yes it's a fact. What is also fact is that they were all the same race, because they had the same genes, because they stem from the same people, the people of Jacob, another fact:D.

Yes but would you kindly listen. If there is one country (we will call it "Listenland" for reasons which I believe are blindingly obvious) which then splits into two (We will call those countries "hear" and "understand") and they move away from one another and exist for a few hundrud years as independent nations then you have generations created in those nations as seperate nations. Ergo you have a diffrent nationality and depending on how far these people move away, diffrent races (nature/nurture questio comming in here). Bottom line, decentdnts of the Judean kingdom called themselves "Jews". Because they lived seprately they created a word for their nationality, and that word developed into Jew. In modern terms, no it is not a word used for nationality, but then it was. Saying "they are all decended from the same person and therefore the same" is like saying Britian and Germany are one country and one nationality on the grounds that they are both Germanic decendents. Both followed very diffrent paths and have become diffrent.

We know that Jesus was Jewish because:


Because he lived at home until he was thirty,
he went into his father's business,
his mother thought he was God,
and he thought his mother was a virgin.

i've been confused about that point for a while...for Jesus to be a descendent of David, Joseph would have had to be his father, wouldn't he? but i thought the whole point was that Mary and Joseph hadn't made Jesus together. so how does Jesus get to be a descendent of David?


Exactly! He is not a real Jew! He is soley from God and by no means can you label a God a Jew. Also what about Christianity. It has also been said that Jesus was one of the first people to teach real Christianity. How can you saw he teached the Judaism?

there is one country (we will call it "Listenland" for reasons which I believe are blindingly obvious) which then splits into two (We will call those countries "hear" and "understand") and they move away from one another and exist for a few hundrud years as independent nations then you have generations created in those nations as seperate nations. Ergo you have a diffrent nationality and depending on how far these people move away, diffrent races (nature/nurture questio comming in here). Bottom line, decentdnts of the Judean kingdom called themselves "Jews". Because they lived seprately they created a word for their nationality, and that word developed into Jew. In modern terms, no it is not a word used for nationality, but then it was. Saying "they are all decended from the same person and therefore the same" is like saying Britian and Germany are one country and one nationality on the grounds that they are both Germanic decendents. Both followed very diffrent paths and have become diffrent.
Listenland, sound a lot like patronising land. The people of Judah called themselves Jews, like the people of the UK call themselves British, British is not a race, nor is Jewish. Your German/Britain argument falls apart because of too many other factors, it is not similar. The creation of separate tribes in ancient Israel did not create 12 new races:rolleyes:, it doesn't work like that, but then, that is blinding obvious:D. All I stated was that Jew is not a race, which it isn't, back to fact again. Anyone can become a Jew, just like any other religion. It is a culture and a tradition that can be handed down, but it cannot be passed down thru the gene.

EDIT.
JC didn't teach Christianity. Paul did, and that ran different from the life that Jesus was born into.

Exactly! He is not a real Jew! He is soley from God and by no means can you label a God a Jew. Also what about Christianity. It has also been said that Jesus was one of the first people to teach real Christianity. How can you saw he teached the Judaism?

He didn't teach Christianity. That developed based upon his teachings, which were drawn from his discussions on his Jewsih theology during his ministry, and so Christianity is more of an offshoot of Judaism than a totally unique religion. Both share a lot of theology and belief structures.

Exactly! He is not a real Jew! He is soley from God and by no means can you label a God a Jew. Also what about Christianity. It has also been said that Jesus was one of the first people to teach real Christianity. How can you saw he teached the Judaism?

His mother was still Jewish. Her blood fed Him. He even referred to Himself as being Jewish in John 4:22 when He says, "We know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." when talking to the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well about where the correct place of worship was and that eventually all true believers would worship "in Spirit and Truth" and that the place wasn't the primary issue.

Christianity is a Jewish sect that believes in Christ.
Christianity is a subset of Judaism.
Christians are a subset of Jews.
Ergo...Facist Emerica is a Jew.

;)

Yes they do. The big three religions of the world all stem from the same precept, a belief in the supreme being etc. Jesus is the third most reverred prophet in Islam.
The devil is in the detail huh?;)

Anyone can become a Jew, just like any other religion. It is a culture and a tradition that can be handed down, but it cannot be passed down thru the gene.

I agree that anyone can become a Jew HOWEVER people do have JEWISH ancestry and I know people who are 1/4 Jewish and other people who are Jewish only by the fact that one of their parents is and have no practising part. The word "Jew" is nowadays used for primarly religion however it does have racial conotations


The creation of separate tribes in ancient Israel did not create 12 new races


Ok now I know you dont understand what I am talking about. I'm not talking about the 12 tribes being 12 races. If you knew anything about Biblical history you would know that the kingdom of Israel became divided into Israel (10 of the 12) and Judea (2 of the 12). Now these two existed as seperate nations for a long time and were both exiled to diffrent places (Judea to Babylon and Israel to Assyria). This lasted for several centuries during other generations came and went. Thus by the time Israel was under one banner again they were very diffrent people there, many of which were direct decendnts of the original people (the Babylonians and Assyrians did rape and force child slaves from many Isralite/Jewish women). The seperate historyies and cultures and genealogys of these two peoples created two diffrent races/nationalitys.

I agree that anyone can become a Jew HOWEVER people do have JEWISH ancestry and I know people who are 1/4 Jewish and other people who are Jewish only by the fact that one of their parents is and have no practising part. The word "Jew" is nowadays used for primarly religion however it does have racial conotations
Racial connotations that are wrong.
Is being Jewish a race, nationality or religious identity?
Being Jewish is not a race

Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have become Jewish people over the years.

Being Jewish is not a nationality

Being Jewish is not a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost two thousand years. People of many different nationalities are Jewish.

Being Jewish is like being a citizen of a religious movement

Being Jewish means you are a part of a religious movement. However, the great majority of Jews become a part of the religious movement through birth and not due to their beliefs or actions. In this way, being Jewish is like being a citizen of a religious movement.

A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on the babies of Jewish mothers (according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish mothers or fathers (according to Reform Judaism).

This Jewish identity stays with them throughout life even if they don't actively practice Judaism.

If a person is not born Jewish, he/she can undergo the process of conversion to become a Jew. A person who was not born Jewish or has not gone through the conversion process is not considered a Jew even if he or she believes in Judaism and observes Jewish practices. The conversion process is very meaningful because it is the only way for a non-Jew to become Jewish.
http://judaism.about.com/od/abcsofjudaism/a/beingjewish.htm


If you knew anything about Biblical history you would know that the kingdom of Israel became divided into Israel (10 of the 12) and Judea (2 of the 12). Now these two existed as seperate nations for a long time and were both exiled to diffrent places (Judea to Babylon and Israel to Assyria). This lasted for several centuries during other generations came and went. Thus by the time Israel was under one banner again they were very diffrent people there, many of which were direct decendnts of the original people (the Babylonians and Assyrians did rape and force child slaves from many Isralite/Jewish women). The seperate historyies and cultures and genealogys of these two peoples created two diffrent races/nationalitys.
I'm talking aboot races and history, not 'biblical history, which simply states that being Jewish is not a race, which is outlined far more eloquently than I could do in the article above. Nations come and go and be created or uncreated, it does not create a race, just an identity.

Yes jesus was a jew in the sense that he was raised in the jewish faith and that his beliefs were augmented jewish beliefs.


For the sake of the education of the children and the upright defense of English *salute* the correct phrasing of the title ought to have been "Was Jesus A Jew."

I'm talking aboot races and history, not 'biblical history, which simply states that being Jewish is not a race, which is outlined far more eloquently than I could do in the article above. Nations come and go and be created or uncreated, it does not create a race, just an identity.

It DOES create a race if the people in it move apart and include people not originaly part of that race. How do you think the Anglo-Saxon race started?

I'm not sure I would have thought that there was such a thing as an 'anglo-saxon' race, Northern Europeans belong to the same race.
It creates a cultural identity, or a nation as you say, it does not create a new race.

I'm not sure I would have thought that there was such a thing as an 'anglo-saxon' race, Northern Europeans belong to the same race.
It creates a cultural identity, or a nation as you say, it does not create a new race.

By your logic, race doesnt exist at all seing as we all decend from the same point, so why are you discussing this?

...if you trace decendents back far enough you find... we are all the same.... I am talking about facts here.

No - you are talking about an article of faith.

Not my logic. As for desendents, I was referring to Jacob and his kids. If I had 12 kids and they ran off to different parts of the country and made thier own villages, even after several generations, no new races would be born, it would take millennia (perhaps?) The subject of human races overall is more varied and I doubt we shall ever know how it all kicked off. In the 20th century the arguments over 'race' have become more complex.
The validity of human races is a subject of much debate. Many anthropologists, drawing on biological research, think common definitions of human races are without taxonomic validity. They argue that race definitions are imprecise, arbitrary, derived from custom, and vary across cultures. Others, however, argue that race continues to serve as a valid concept, and argue that movements to discredit racial classifications are often politically rather than scientifically motivated.

Human variation can be used to distinguish and classify humans into groups. Group admixture can hinder such analysis. The relationship between social and genetic definitions of race is complex. Phenotypic and genotypic classifications do not always correspond exactly. Common race definitions correspond to genotypic groupings insomuch as they correspond to ancestry. Whether human population structure warrants racial groupings is a matter of debate, with majority opinions varying between disciplines. Some biologists prefer the term population to race. Similar reasoning has led some to describe races as (inbred) extended families.
I can think of Negroid and Caucasian of the top of my head.

I am only discussing it with you because I disagree with the statement, 'Jewish is also a race'. Islam is not a race, nor is Christianity and many other religions. The cross-over between cultural identity, religious teachings, ancestry, language etc becomes blurred. Blurred to the point where sometimes one thing, can be taken for another.

Jesus was a Rabbi. Last I checked, there are no X-tian Rabbis.

And Hal, how about calling them... People descended form other people that lived in the South East Corner of the Medditeranean?
Secms. :fluffle:

not sure about the use of the word 'race' to describe the Jews - for one thing, there's not that many of them. Mostly they're part of a larger afro-asiatic ethnic group that includes Arabs, north africans etc. And, if you accept some theories, quite a lot of Ashkenazik Jewish blood is actually Turkic in origin (from the Khazars in Central Asia who converted to Judaism circa 800 AD)

And of course Jesus was Jewish. His father was the God of the Jews - how much more Jewish can you get? :rolleyes:

Then how about Nazis? How can they be religious and believe in Jesus and follow his teaching but yet hate Jews. If Jesus was a Jew then in they should hate Jesus correct? Yet even now a days there are many Neo-Nazi organizations that are Christian based!

Then how about Nazis? How can they be religious and believe in Jesus and follow his teaching but yet hate Jews. If Jesus was a Jew then in they should hate Jesus correct? Yet even now a days there are many Neo-Nazi organizations that are Christian based!

They claim they are Christian because they are very confused... The only nationalist movements that deserve to be Christian, imo, are groups like the Assyrians, the Ethiopians, etc. Maybe extremist Rasta movements might also be included.

Then how about Nazis? How can they be religious and believe in Jesus and follow his teaching but yet hate Jews. If Jesus was a Jew then in they should hate Jesus correct? Yet even now a days there are many Neo-Nazi organizations that are Christian based!
Because they say Jesus isn't a Jew.

Then how about Nazis? How can they be religious and believe in Jesus and follow his teaching but yet hate Jews. If Jesus was a Jew then in they should hate Jesus correct? Yet even now a days there are many Neo-Nazi organizations that are Christian based!
yeah. and a lot of them MAKE NO SENSE.

According to Jewish tradition, even adopted children become full members of the family.

actually that is wrong.....by jewish law, in order for a child to be jewish the mother must be jewish.....so, if a jewish family adopted a gentile child, the child would still be a gentile....

Perhaps;)

Also, Yehosa ben Joseph was the Messiah (the Christ), that means the Annointed one, the King of the Jews, which only a Jew could be, so that is another indicator that he was Jewish, that and his ancestry.
WRONG! A foreign leader is named as an annointed in the Hebrew Bible.

Even if he wasn't, that'd still be alright. After all it would finally kill the ridiculous "Jews killed Jesus" propaganda of the Anti-Semites, and would really weaken their propaganda base.

The Jews did kill Jesus. They did it out of fear and greed.

However, recently, the Catholic religion at least has issued them a pardon of sorts saying that it was god's will originally, so they didn't have a choice in the matter.

Then how about Nazis? How can they be religious and believe in Jesus and follow his teaching but yet hate Jews. If Jesus was a Jew then in they should hate Jesus correct? Yet even now a days there are many Neo-Nazi organizations that are Christian based!
Because Neo-Nazi's are dumb.
Lets just think of some reason to hate everyone that ain't white... I know, there are a lot of these christians, so why don't we claim their main man, Jesus, was killed by, who should we hate? Jews. Jesus was killed by Jews.

And does not Jesus teach peace and love hmm? So how can you be a Neo-Nazi and claim to X-tian?

This is mainly because Christianity has its roots in Judaism, just like within Christianity, Protestantism has its roots in Catholicism. Martin Luther was a Catholic originally.

Before a reform, the reformer himself belongs to the old faith of course. ;)

And does not Jesus teach peace and love hmm?

Hate to say this, but everything that Jesus taught came straight out of the Old Testament, including "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Do a little Bible search. It's all in there. Jesus wasn't teaching anything new, he was just correcting the corruption.

OK OK peeps!! :headbang: Jesus was jewish, ok? It's the truth and i promise!

Hate to say this, but everything that Jesus taught came straight out of the Old Testament, including "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Do a little Bible search. It's all in there. Jesus wasn't teaching anything new, he was just correcting the corruption.
OH NO DUDE! HE TAOUGHT A LOT OF NEW THINGS! He is the son of God, and he is God! :D

OH NO DUDE! HE TAOUGHT A LOT OF NEW THINGS! He is the son of God, and he is God! :D

I don't remember disputing that fact, but your sarcasm is noted. :rolleyes:

I have heard many people say that Jesus was a Jew. But how can this be so? For anyone who believes in Jesus and Christianity, we know that Jesus was concieved in the virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus had none of his mothers or fathers blood truly in him. He was created soley by God and the Holy Spirit. So are they saying God is a Jew then? How can that be so? If God is in everyone and whatnot. Plus no one knows what he looks like or anything. He was just always here. No nationality or anything. So how can Jesus be a Jew? In my opininion he isnt!
Jesus was a jew-he was concieved by the Jewish god, on a jewish woman. He claims blood-relation to King David (Famous Jewish Leader).
He initially preached only to Jews, and the word "Messiah" is a jewish word.
Further, he was (if you believe in him) a fulfillment of Jewish Prophecy.

Your question is like a Baptist asking if a Methodist is a Christian.

isnt it enough that jesus identified himself as a jew?

isnt it enough that everyone around him identified him as a jew?

isnt it enough that he had a jewish mother?

what more would anyone need for proof?

A Jew is many things. There's different interpretations, but traditionally, it is one who was born of a Jewish mother. A more contemporary (but also accepted by Orthodox) is that it is one with a Jewish soul, who is also, obviously, born of a Jewish mother. But a person who is converted is much like a born-again Christian, except Jewish. That's why the 'soul' part comes in, with converts. Because although they may not have what appears to be a Jewish body, they have a Jewish soul, and that's what's important.

According to Jewish tradition, even adopted children become full members of the family.
Full members of the family, yes, not of the tribe. And even if they're members of the family, they don't carry the family line, only sons do.

Jesus was born a Jew, but was cut off from the Jews, when he worked on the Sabbath. There are certain unforgivable sins, in Judaism, such as eating food with blood, eating sacrificial offerings, etc, that warrant a Jew from being "cut off from his people", much like Abel's brother, Cain (except he wasn't Jewish). Working on the sabbath is one of these laws and it was punishable by death. The sabbath is important because it's a day to set aside completely for God (not just a few hours). But Jesus somehow felt he was "above" the rules and even preached that people break it. Had he been in an area controlled by Jews, he would've been stoned, just like any others that broke the sabbath, and that would've been the end of it.

Shemot\Exodus 31:14 "Therefore you are to keep my Shabbat, because it is set apart for you. Everyone who treats it as ordinary must be put to death; for whoever does any work on it is to be cut off from his people."

Sinning, as Jesus did, by breaking the law means you're no longer a Jew.

For more information on why Jesus' was not the Messiah, take a look at:
http://www.jewsforjudaism.com/jews-jesus/jews-jesus-index.html

The Christian response to Jewish interpretations of the Bible are frantic, at worst, poorly-constructed, at best, but usually just fairly illogical. If you'd like to see what I mean, take a look at this. A debate between the Jewish perspective and Christian:
http://www.therefinersfire.org/more_miscellaneous_responses.htm

That author has what's called a "limited debate." It's a means of propaganda. It's when, on Fox News, someone's right about to make his main point, and the host suddenly cuts away to a commercial. In that website, he makes points which would have clearly and easily been invalidated, even by a slightly educated Jew. But he doesn't list anything more, because that would ruin the plan--to convert more people, into his own fear-based world. Christians claim they don't need to follow any rules, but just believe, because rules didn't work. That this new way of spirituality is more civilized than things used to be. But if you actually know the slightest thing about Judaism, they're actually far more rational than the majority of Christians and more educated about their beliefs, as study is of primary importance, not secondary, as in many Christian sects.

But I digress, back to that guy's website.

He says the Third Temple won't be built the Messiah, in the Bible. That's true, but it will be built. (Ezekiel 37:26-27) In his other page, he contradicts Ezekiel, by saying it's metaphorical (here's the wacky metaphors I was talking about), saying that the temple God puts on earth is heaven. To the Jews, God's "sanctuary" was his temple. It's already obvious through other aspects of the prophecy that there will be peace on earth (and so, also heaven), so this is redundant. And even so, if God would bring heaven on earth, why do Christians still dispute this interpretation of the Messiah bringing world peace the first time? The truth is, the idea of a second coming of the Messiah was created after, even with all the ridiculous metaphors, Christ could not completely fulfill the prophecy, such as with world peace.

He mistranslates Daniel 9:27, translating "the dumb one" as "the desolate one" (in order to maintain the prophecy of Jesus--after all, Jesus was desolate, but not dumb).

He says "There is no language that specifies the Messiah will bring the Jews back to Israel. The language states only that God will lead the Jews back to Israel." Umm, the Messiah was the Jewish hero. He was their hope and dream. Throughout Biblical history, the Jews were obstinate and stubborn. The Messiah is the hope that God won't give up on them, and give them deliverance. He would not have been that if the scripture just said God will try to deliver the Jews. Besides, the way he interpreted it, that's not even a prophecy. It's a guess, a vague estimate.

"This language, in addition to the language provided in Micah 4:3, provides a description of the world during the Messianic Age." OK, so.. There will be peace when the Messiah comes, but not caused by the Messiah? Who causes this world peace, then? Surely, not mankind. Even Christianity doesn't teach that.

He outright ignores Isaiah 2:4, instead going off on a tangent, about how Christ fulfilled all of the prophecies (which, as explained earlier, he didn't). And even if Christ fulfilled those other prophecies, the author of that site ignores this point. He arguments seems to be "since he fulfilled most of them, this one's okay to forget about." That's not how it works. If a man does not fulfill just one part of the prophecy, he is not the Messiah.

"This language provides that knowledge of God's law will be known by all during the Messianic Age. Nowhere does it provide that during the life of the Messiah, universal knowledge of the law will be known by all. One must distinguish between the coming of the Messiah and the Messianic Age." He makes this distinction, that isn't in Judaism, in order to includethe book of Revelation, which wasn't the last book of the Bible, but originally the first (which further supports the idea that it started off as a radical cult--just as the Romans viewed it).

His interpretation of Deuteronomy 18 is incorrect. He's presumptuous in assuming the prophet will be exactly like Moses and also, the Messiah is not just "a prophet. " The laws in Deuteronomy 18 deal with God setting up Israel for future prophets, which were the ones who later wrote or inspired other Jewish texts. This, by no means, is part of the prophecy of the Messiah.

There's one part where the Jewish debator tells the Christianity not to use the Old Testament. Well, it would be very rare for a Jew to say, "Don't use our book", (I hope this wasn't made up) because Jews agree that Christianity is a good thing--as long as they don't try to convert Jews. It brings the 10 commandments to the world, which, in Judaism, are the only things required for a non-Jew to go to heaven. Even though they're wrong, it doesn't matter, because it's good for society.

Okay, I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of this. The part where it says, "Jews do not even believe in faith!" is total nonsense. This is propaganda. Jews do believe in faith just as much as any other religion. They don't believe faith is all that's required to be saved, but that doesn't mean they don't believe in faith. Whoever pretended to write those comments, whether it was the author or someone else, they are not a good person. It's sites like these that make me lose respect for Christianity. Pretending to be Jewish and writing a page with fake debates is no way to win followers.

Jesus was jewish.

His mother was Jewish, and by Jewish understanding, its from your mother if you get the jewish soul or not. since his mother was jewish, and her mother and etc, he is jewish by lineage. father's deem what house you fall into, and haveing Joseph as his adopted father, he fell into the house of David.

jesus taught the laws of moses, but also showed that it wasn't just the laws that were important. he taught against legalism, worshipping because the law says so, not because you want to. he revealed that faith was the real reason of salvation, and that it had alwasy been that way, as was evident with Abraham, and Noah.

being Jewish may not be a race, but its a subset of a race. The Hebrew race, which has unique blood traits and is said to be from Adam, the first but not only human to be on the earth. So Jesus was a Jewish Hebrew.

actually that is wrong.....by jewish law, in order for a child to be jewish the mother must be jewish.....so, if a jewish family adopted a gentile child, the child would still be a gentile....
Are you sure about that? You have to remember, Christians are experts on Jewish law. ;)

Anyway, about the ethnic discussion, specifically... and Jews... Science has shown that, genetically, Jews and Arabs are practically identical. Jews aren't really a race.

http://www.pejmanesque.com/archives/003881.html

Are you sure about that? You have to remember, Christians are experts on Jewish law. ;)

Anyway, about the ethnic discussion, specifically... and Jews... Science has shown that, genetically, Jews and Arabs are practically identical. Jews aren't really a race.

http://www.pejmanesque.com/archives/003881.html

Jews and Arabs also claim to be the true children of Abraham, and they argue over who really follows the correct teachings of him. In Islamic belief Abraham was a servent of Allah, and that the modern jews have a distorted view on what he taught, and that they don't serve Allah strict enough. Just as they feel Jesus was a servent of Allah, and that the early christians changed the teachings and thats why they don't mirror modern Islamic beliefs.

Jesus' christianity goes against what the Jews talk of...the messiah has not come yet for the Jews so they dnt regard Jesus as a jew...but he probabaly was a jew 4 most of his life

to say Jesus is a jew now is to say guru nanak is a muslim!

Jesus' christianity goes against what the Jews talk of...the messiah has not come yet for the Jews so they dnt regard Jesus as a jew...but he probabaly was a jew 4 most of his life

to say Jesus is a jew now is to say guru nanak is a muslim!


I think that Jesus was HaMashiach Ben Yoseph, the Annotinted one that, as Yoseph in the bible had to die before he could start a new and get his purpose done and become a king. Still waiting on HaMashiach ben David, the Annointed one that is to restore the throne of David, and usher in the peace of the world. Perhaps that is what Revelation describes as the second coming and the 1000 year reign.

I do believe that even Isaiah said that the Root of Yishai would be a banner to the goyim, maybe its because the jews weren't ready to see G-d's plan, just like in the bible many many times.

Exactly! He is not a real Jew! He is soley from God and by no means can you label a God a Jew. Also what about Christianity. It has also been said that Jesus was one of the first people to teach real Christianity. How can you saw he teached the Judaism?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/
There was no Christianity until AFTER Christ's death.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/first/scriptures.html
Jesus drew his teachings from the Torah...

But hey, what do historians know?

Are you sure about that? You have to remember, Christians are experts on Jewish law. ;)

Anyway, about the ethnic discussion, specifically... and Jews... Science has shown that, genetically, Jews and Arabs are practically identical. Jews aren't really a race.

http://www.pejmanesque.com/archives/003881.html

They aren't a race... they are a nationality... they are a nation without a country. They are an ethnic group. A nation is defined as a group of people with a common heritage and culture, so therefore they are a nation as you have to be born to a Jewish mother to become Jewish yourself, and there is the common heritage.

yes

duh

0.o This seems to be a really dumb discussion. Jesus was Jewish (ie: a Jew) in all senses of the word. He was of the Israelite tribes. He spoke Hebrew. He was of the Jewish faith. He was born of Jewish parents (mother at least, if you want to say God/holy spirit/whatever diety impregnated her).

He didn't preach Christianity, he preached the word of the Jewish God. Christianity was invented (which can be read as contrived, made up, or any other synonym) hundreds of years after his death by people (they followed him, and decided he should be God or somesuch).

*shrugs* Have fun with your arguement, but that's the short version of it, I'm afraid.

to say Jesus is a jew now is to say guru nanak is a muslim!

No... Guru Nanak was a Hindu :p

i've been confused about that point for a while...for Jesus to be a descendent of David, Joseph would have had to be his father, wouldn't he? but i thought the whole point was that Mary and Joseph hadn't made Jesus together. so how does Jesus get to be a descendent of David?
Actually, the bible traces both Joseph and Mary's bloodline back to David, so any way you slice it, he was a decendant of David.

0.o This seems to be a really dumb discussion. Jesus was Jewish (ie: a Jew) in all senses of the word. He was of the Israelite tribes. He spoke Hebrew. He was of the Jewish faith. He was born of Jewish parents (mother at least, if you want to say God/holy spirit/whatever diety impregnated her).

He didn't preach Christianity, he preached the word of the Jewish God. Christianity was invented (which can be read as contrived, made up, or any other synonym) hundreds of years after his death by people (they followed him, and decided he should be God or somesuch).

*shrugs* Have fun with your arguement, but that's the short version of it, I'm afraid.

Well, you're half right. Letters written by Jesus' own disciples in the decades following his passing detailed the original Christian faith. However, the first century church was a far cry from Christianity as it's known today... The biggest differences arose from the Counsels of Nicea held around the fourth century, after the Emperor Constantine took control of the church. And it's debatable whether or not the trinity was part of the early church at all.

I have heard many people say that Jesus was a Jew. But how can this be so? For anyone who believes in Jesus and Christianity, we know that Jesus was concieved in the virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus had none of his mothers or fathers blood truly in him. He was created soley by God and the Holy Spirit. So are they saying God is a Jew then? How can that be so? If God is in everyone and whatnot. Plus no one knows what he looks like or anything. He was just always here. No nationality or anything. So how can Jesus be a Jew? In my opininion he isnt!
He was a Jew most likely, a rabbi of a sort.

I have heard many people say that Jesus was a Jew. But how can this be so? For anyone who believes in Jesus and Christianity, we know that Jesus was concieved in the virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Jesus had none of his mothers or fathers blood truly in him. He was created soley by God and the Holy Spirit. So are they saying God is a Jew then? How can that be so? If God is in everyone and whatnot. Plus no one knows what he looks like or anything. He was just always here. No nationality or anything. So how can Jesus be a Jew? In my opininion he isnt!

Did you ever not think why the Romans called him King of the Jews? It wasn't just to demean him.

Anyway Christianity wasn't evented at the time of Christ's life as Christianity is mostly derived from the story of the cruxification and the resurrection of Christ. Jesus cant have been a Christian when there was no such thing as Christianity. You see, a little logic goes a long way.

The Jews did kill Jesus. They did it out of fear and greed.

However, recently, the Catholic religion at least has issued them a pardon of sorts saying that it was god's will originally, so they didn't have a choice in the matter.

Of course the Jewish people (not all of whom called for his death) were pardoned. Who else shares in the blame? Who physically killed Christ? The ROMANS.

Actually, if you want to look at it more philosophically, since no one stopped it, everyone is responsible. ;)

They aren't a race... they are a nationality... they are a nation without a country. They are an ethnic group. A nation is defined as a group of people with a common heritage and culture, so therefore they are a nation as you have to be born to a Jewish mother to become Jewish yourself, and there is the common heritage.
Not true. A "nation" is a group of people that share the same land. Your definition of "nation" is the definition of ethnic group.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nation

So, "nationality" isn't really right, either, because Jews migrated from that region thousands of years ago. (In other words, not all Jews originated from modern Israel.) And by that same measure, then, "Anglo-Saxon" is a nationality, because they migrated from Europe after the Jews had settled in that region.

And you don't have to be born to a Jewish mother to become Jewish. It's difficult and rare (because, for Orthodox, you have to learn Hebrew and Aramaic, as well extensively study the Torah and be circumcized), but you can convert to Judaism. And actually, non-Orthodox conversions are even easier than that. So, no.

"Ethnic group", yes. But not a race or a nationality. "Israelite" is the nationality.

He was a Jew most likely, a rabbi of a sort.
Rabbis were born of wealthy families, I believe. Jesus was born poor.

Of course the Jewish people (not all of whom called for his death) were pardoned. Who else shares in the blame? Who physically killed Christ? The ROMANS.

Actually, if you want to look at it more philosophically, since no one stopped it, everyone is responsible. ;)
And yet...

The Romans kept records of every person crucified, but not Jesus. And they didn't "nail" anyone to crucifixes. They just tied them there. It wasn't economically feasible to pay for metal nails, for every person you crucified, when tying them there gave them a miserable death, all the same.

So, who provided the metal nails? No one knows. But it just further damages the story's credibility. I mean, they'd spent extra time and money nailing Jesus to the cross, and they put up a sign that said, "Jesus-King of the Jews", but they wouldn't keep a record of it? It doesn't make any sense.

The Romans kept records of every person crucified, but not Jesus. And they didn't "nail" anyone to crucifixes. They just tied them there. It wasn't economically feasible to pay for metal nails, for every person you crucified, when tying them there gave them a miserable death, all the same.


That's just not historically accurate. Where are you getting your information. And as for records, there's one thing the people of that time liked to do, kill each other. And once you get into someone's city and have killed them, you razed everything to the ground just for spite.

I heard that Christianity is almost like a "sub-genre" of jewish. These two have many smilarities to each other.

Jesus wasn´t trying to create a new religion, but as the time went by these two we´re splitted apart.

Sorry for my bad english...

Hate to say this, but everything that Jesus taught came straight out of the Old Testament, including "Love thy neighbor as thyself." Do a little Bible search. It's all in there. Jesus wasn't teaching anything new, he was just correcting the corruption.

He created an entirely new covenant, it is completely new.

I heard that Christianity is almost like a "sub-genre" of jewish. These two have many smilarities to each other.

Jesus wasn´t trying to create a new religion, but as the time went by these two we´re splitted apart.

Sorry for my bad english...

As much as people of Judaism, people of Christianity, and people of Islam like to argue, their philosophies historically DO all derive from common roots. Judaism and Christianity share the Old Testament, and Islam begins with Hagar and Ishmael -- Abraham's firstborn son. Abraham is a prophet all three religions accept and admire.

As much as people of Judaism, people of Christianity, and people of Islam like to argue, their philosophies historically DO all derive from common roots. Judaism and Christianity share the Old Testament, and Islam begins with Hagar and Ishmael -- Abraham's firstborn son. Abraham is a prophet all three religions accept and admire.
Katganistan---And Ba'hai, which is derived from Islam.