NationStates Jolt Archive

I just wanted to know how people from other nations, not Britain or Ireland, look at the situation in Northern Ireland, that is to say do you think it is Irish or British? What do you think is the right way to go to get peace in Northern Ireland?


No British or Irish people post here please.
This is not intended to cause an argument.

People here do not seem to want to post what they want to say about the issue so you can use the poll to say what you want. THE POLL IS NOT PUBLIC!

Maybe you should make it a public poll so you can check the people posting aren't British or Irish.

People here do not seem to want to post what they want to say about the issue so you can use the poll to say what you want. THE POLL IS NOT PUBLIC!

I think the reason is simply that Northern Ireland is a fairly complex issue that not a lot of people, myself included, understand.

An active and extra-militant IRA is the best choice. Ultimately, Ireland should be united with the possible expulsion of Irish Protestants, depending upon how much they act up.

Couldn't they have a vote in Northern Ireland to decide what nation they will belong to? That would probably be a fair solution to this long running problem.

Couldn't they have a vote in Northern Ireland to decide what nation they will belong to? That would probably be a fair solution to this long running problem.

That would not work. Northern Ireland was a part of Ireland until the British 'invaded' and imported protestant people from Britain to try to 'turn' the nation (Sounds like something the Nazis did, right). It did not work. There was no Northern Ireland until in the 1920's with the Home Rule Act (Collins, Griffith, George and Churchill), the Irish delegation wanted the northern countys, were most were protestant, to be part of Ireland but the British did not want that so the trouble there today is all the British fault. If they had just let go of that land many people would be alive today and the children would not havto play around armed soldiers on the streets and live in fear. Collins and Griffith did their best to get Tyrone and Farmanagh(?) the two countys were Catholics were the majority but the British did not want to let that go.
The reason a vote like that would not work is because the majority are British protestants and the Irish would not have a great say in what should be done on their own ground.

That would not work. Northern Ireland was a part of Ireland until the British 'invaded' and imported protestant people from Britain to try to 'turn' the nation (Sounds like something the Nazis did, right). It did not work. There was no Northern Ireland until in the 1920's with the Home Rule Act (Collins, Griffith, George and Churchill), the Irish delegation wanted the northern countys, were most were protestant, to be part of Ireland but the British did not want that so the trouble there today is all the British fault. If they had just let go of that land many people would be alive today and the children would not havto play around armed soldiers on the streets and live in fear. Collins and Griffith did their best to get Tyrone and Farmanagh(?) the two countys were Catholics were the majority but the British did not want to let that go.
The reason a vote like that would not work is because the majority are British protestants and the Irish would not have a great say in what should be done on their own ground.
must resist urge to correct historical inaccuracies....

I don't have much information on this, unfortunately. I would like know more.
(I have no idea about some of the poll options) But what I think to
know is that N.Ireland should be part of Ireland... Actually elections on the
matter would be nice. Does somebody have somekind of poll/study about
it?

Bishop Adrian, servant of the servants of God, sends to his dearest son in Christ, the illustrious king of the English, greeting and apostolic benediction. Laudably and profitably enough thy magnificence thinks of extending thy glorious name on earth, and of heaping up rewards of eternal felicity in Heaven, inasmuch as, like a good catholic prince, thou dost endeavour to enlarge the bounds of the church, to declare the truth of the Christian faith to ignorant and barbarous nations, and to extirpate the plants of evil from the field of the Lord. And, in order the better to perform this, thou dost ask the advice and favour of the apostolic see. In which work, the more lofty the counsel and the better the guidance by which thou dost proceed, so much more do we trust that, by God's help, thou wilt progress favourably in the same; for the reason that those things which have taken their rise from ardour of faith and love of religion are accustomed always to come to a good end and termination.

There is indeed no doubt, as thy Highness doth also acknowledge, that Ireland and all other islands which Christ the Sun of Righteousness has illumined, and which have received the doctrines of the Christian faith, belong to the jurisdiction of St. Peter and of the holy Roman Church. Wherefore, so much the more willingly do we grant to them that the right faith and the seed grateful to God may be planted in them, the more we perceive, by examining more strictly our conscience, that this will be required of us.

Thou hast signified to us, indeed, most beloved son in Christ, that thou dost desire to enter into the island of Ireland, in order to subject the people to the laws and to extirpate the vices that have there taken root, and that thou art willing to pay an annual pension to St. Peter of one penny from every house, and to preserve the rights of the churches in that land inviolate and entire. We, therefore, seconding with the favour it deserves thy pious and laudable desire, and granting a benignant assent to thy petition, are well pleased that, for the enlargement of the bounds of the church. for the restraint of vice, for the correction of morals and the introduction of virtues, for the advancement of the Christian religion, thou shouldst enter that island, and carry out there the things that look to the honour of God and to its own salvation. And may the people of that land receive thee with honour, and venerate thee as their master; provided always that the rights of the churches remain inviolate and entire, and saving to St. Peter and the holy Roman Church the annual pension of one penny from each house. If, therefore, thou dost see fit to complete what thou hast conceived in thy mind, strive to imbue that people with good morals, and bring it to pass, as well through thyself as through those whom thou dost know from their faith, doctrine, and course of life to be fit for such a work, that the church may there be adorned, the Christian religion planted and made to grow, and the things which pertain to the honour of God and to salvation be so ordered that thou may'st merit to obtain an abundant and lasting reward from God, and on earth a name glorious throughout the ages.

The Pope granted Ireland to England a long time ago. Therefore the IRA are bad Catholics.

must resist urge to correct historical inaccuracies....

Well the invasion part might be false, I dont really know what happend there but the rest is true. England did try to change Ireland into their litle sick twisted ways just like the Nazis.

The Pope granted Ireland to England a long time ago. Therefore the IRA are bad Catholics.

Well you English have never been good Catholics and not even Catholic since Henry V I think, the chuch of England remember? Who is the Pope to give a nation not his to another country? If that is what the British government is using to keep the North then they have a hard time ahead in regards of international sympthy, the Catholics are winning that one.

Well the invasion part might be false, I dont really know what happend there but the rest is true. England did try to change Ireland into their litle sick twisted ways just like the Nazis.
no, no, no...

some of what you said is accurate, but from what i can see most of it isnt

Hold a referendum in N. Ireland, and if they choose to stay with the UK, then they stay, if they choose to leave and become independent of either the UK or Ireland, then I don't care, if they choose to leave and join Ireland, it should be in their ability to do so. That's what I think.

no, no, no...

some of what you said is accurate, but from what i can see most of it isnt
What part are you talking about? The Collins-Griffith delegation in London, England with Loyd George and Churchill is true. The fact George did not want to let go of the North is true, the fact that Tyrone and Farmanagh at that time were mostly Cathoilic is true, the fact they tryd to get Tyrone and Farmanagh into the Free State is true, What?

From a fairly ill informed U.S. citizen on the matter...

Sounds like you guys need to make yourself into a bunch of "States", and then address "States Right's" in your Constitution, or whatever you call your Document that makes your Laws. :D

But hey, I'm just a stupid U.S. citizen who believes in the basis of Freedom, Democracy and Capitalism... what the hell do I know.

:p

Regards,
Gaar

EDIT: We had a time when our North and South didn't like each other much too, we called it a Civil War. It took us a while, but we eventually got over it and recognized that there were many more things that United us than Divided us.

What part are you talking about? The Collins-Griffith delegation in London, England with Loyd George and Churchill is true. The fact George did not want to let go of the North is true, the fact that Tyrone and Farmanagh at that time were mostly Cathoilic is true, the fact they tryd to get Tyrone and Farmanagh into the Free State is true, What?
i would correct your post, but to be perfectly honest i dont want and i cant be bothered to get into a unionist/nationalist debate

From a fairly ill informed U.S. citizen on the matter...

Sounds like you guys need to make yourself into a bunch of "States", and then address "States Right's" in your Constitution, or whatever you call your Document that makes your Laws. :D

But hey, I'm just a stupid U.S. citizen who believes in the basis of Freedom, Democracy and Capitalism... what the hell do I know.

:p

Regards,
Gaar

If you believe that then you would want to see your Congress do something about this. Soldiers walk the streets of that region with guns and anything else you could imagine and the Police there are no better then the most corrupt cops in America, that you send to prison by the way,. Northern Ireland is in need of civil rights, something the British almost destroyd in the 60's, you might know it as Bloody Sunday,.
Now there are more hostile groups then ever I.R.A. and splinter groups and also Unionist fighting groups just like the I.R.A. Terrorists on both sides are at war.
This is igoing on in the Western World, Western Europe were everything is said to be so free and great oh and democratic, thats all bull if we dont fix this.

i would correct your post, but to be perfectly honest i dont want and i cant be bothered to get into a unionist/nationalist debate

Okay, just tell me what was wrong in the post and that will be it.

If you believe that then you would want to see your Congress do something about this. Soldiers walk the streets of that region with guns and anything else you could imagine and the Police there are no better then the most corrupt cops in America, that you send to prison by the way,. Northern Ireland is in need of civil rights, something the British almost destroyd in the 60's, you might know it as Bloody Sunday,.
This is igoing on in the Western World, Western Europe were everything is said to be so free and great oh and democratic, thats all bull if we dont fix this.

Like I said, I believe in the Freedoms MY Constitution espouses...

They don't get to do such things here.

Regards,
Gaar

Okay, just tell me what was wrong in the post and that will be it.
OK

Northern Ireland wasnt a part of Ireland until the British invaded. There never was a country or state called Ireland, it was a whole load of loosely united kingdoms.

The vast majority of the settlers going into Ulster were from (mostly western) Scotland, who were largely originally from Ireland....

The Act in 1920 was the Government of Ireland Act, which set up two home rule parliaments, one in Dublin in charge of the 26 counties of Southern Ireland, and another in Belfast in charge of the 6 counties of Northern Ireland.

What made the 26 counties into the Irish Free State was the 1921 Anglo-Irish treaty negotiated by Michael Collins

The Sinn Fein/IRA delegation recognised that they couldnt get the 6 counties, and if they had the UVF would have started a civil war in the north against a severely depleted IRA. The Ulster Unionists (Carson and Craig) recognised they couldnt get any more than 6 counties, and pushed for the ones that they thought they could get...and got them

and before 1800, and Ireland becoming part of the UK, there was no real unionist/nationalist divide, just a desire for an independent Ireland. The 1798 United Irishman uprising was primarily by Presbyterians whos familys were originally from Scotland. The unionist/nationalist divide began properly when the economic benefits of being in the UK became clear and some became unionists, but many still wanted an independent Ireland.

There was a referendum in 1972 (i think, might have been '74) and they voted to remain British, and current polls still suggest that it would vote to remain British

OK

Thank You!